Thanks for this review of the non-live records. I have some thoughts as a long-time fan and someone who published an article about them in 1988 in Option magazine. The importance of Kartehl is not so much in the songs, but in the fact that this was Magma's first post-Covid release and it represents Christian doing three things: (1) Having other band members write some of the songs, (2) celebrating the happiness of being out in public again, and (3) honoring Rene Garber, Stundehr, his long-time friend who died years ago. The two demo songs were Christian and Rene working together, and it is interesting to see how he now does those same songs with the new band, which has 7 (!) singers- vocals have always been a strong point with Magma, and seeing them sing MDK- at extreme velocity!- is one of the most exciting things I have seen, and I have seem them do it 3 times. I can also say that while Kohntarkosz is my favorite Magma song of all time (and I even have a copy of them doing it live at a concert I went to in Chicago in 1999), seeing Slag Tanz live, with Phillip Bussonett on bass, was certainly the most intense song I've ever heard- phenomenally intense and powerful. I also note that Merci has some important compositions on it, notably Otis and Call From the Dark (which became an Offering song that gave Isabelle Feuillebois a chance to take a lead vocal). Vander has worked hard to reconfigure and reconstruct his songs, so there are ample examples of each song and its mutations over time- to see how a song such a Tittelbon gets rolled into something else, how Zombies became Big Zombies became ER Part 2 and so on. This is the best band ever.
Thanks for this information - I did not know the background behind Kartehl. Slagle Tanz is a bit under the radar but incredible as the dark, heavy piece. They really are an incredible (Genius) band.
42:10 - the classic renditions of Zëss told of total destruction at its climax, the multiple "oms" signifying the floating debris. Whereas 2019's studio version has a newly-composed coda after the final (and only) "om", signifying while there was a destructive conflict, it didn't annihilate everything. Recovery and hope grew out of the ashes. Source: one of Christian's french interviews around the time of the 2019 recording sessions.
I respect your rankings! Tho' mine are a little different: 1. Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré. 2. Félicité Thösz. 3. Zëss. 4. Köhntarkösz. 5. Šlaǧ Tanƶ. 6. Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh. 7. Rïah Sahïltaahk. 8. Üdü Ẁüdü. 9. Attahk. 10. K.A. 11. Ẁurdah Ïtah. 12. Merci. 13. Kãrtëhl. 14. 1001° Centigrades. 15. Kobaïa. Not that the bottom three are bad in any way, still damn fine music! I did a gap between 7 & 8 as I feel the Top 7 are brilliant throughout, whereas the Bottom 8 have highs, mids & even a low here & there.
I can highly recomend the album Shintokumaru by J.A. Caesar! It's a japanese psychedelic prog rock zeuhl opera from the 1978. One of the best albums I've ever heard!
I loved this! Finally a comprehensive treatment of Magma by someone who knows what he's talking about!! My own ranking is not that far off from yours, but I've always thought that MDK is just a bit overrated (as Magma's legendary and best-known album). It's actually behind Kohntarkosz (#1), Theusz Hamtaahk and Wurdah Itah (sharing the #2 spot) for me. I'd put it at #4, tied with Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré, and K.A. at #6 (all six of those works being grand masterpieces 30+ min. in length that stand head and shoulders above all the rest.) But I'll admit that I AM judging by live versions, not studio albums (as you are), as I believe the heart of Magma is in live performance and many of the pieces are only fully developed live. (W.I. would have to be much lower for me if we went by that rushed weekend project of the studio album version.) And I'd have to put Merci in the basement, although Attahk is low in my list as well. Some clarifications: In the mythology, Rïah Sahïltaahk is the name of a powerful member of the spiritualist society that determined to leave Earth for Kobaia. But he believed that he had the power to rescue the people on Earth from their venality and stayed behind when the other members of the society left. However, he soon realized that his cause was hopeless and set out for Kobaia on his own. He gets stranded on a way planet though, trapped in a rising flood. He tries to use all of his esoteric powers to control nature and stop the water from rising, but fails and is drowned. Kohntarkosz I covers the entry to the tomb, moments of E-re's life played out in murals on the wall that come to life, then a final blistering moment when the dust of E-re emerges from his tomb and enters K, uniting the men for a brief moment. Part II is K reflecting on and trying to uncover what the meaning of that moment of union was, to recapture E-re's understanding of the secrets of life and death, with a triumphant conclusion added only in the live version. K.A. is the story of Kohntarkosz before he became the prophet. It describes his life pre-discovery, then takes him through a voyage to the outside of the tomb of E-re at the end where he hears a deep voice greeting him and beckoning him to enter (cue Kohntarkosz). My understanding is that this trilogy is "historical" (20th century and ancient Egypt) but connected to the other trilogy in that the lost secrets that Kohntarkosz uncovers become the basis for the foundation of the spiritualist society that later leaves for Kobaia. It's a future history in other words, a reinterpretation of the past (and what's important in it) based on the perspective of the Kobaians in the future. The Paga Paga twins that sang with the group were the son and daughter of the bass player (half-Japanese). Zess. Give it time. I used to feel as you did (so bland in the middle! Is this music--or just a patterned background for a dramatic poem?) but it grew on me, and I began to hear the nuances in all that repetition.
oh cool yeah im a huge Magma Fanatic.. your rankings on Magma are good i would put kobaia higher than 8th rank i cant even rank their albums from Kobaia to Attahk I love all of those albums the same. I agree with you on the album Merci though im not into that album as much I like their other albums after that still too up to their latest album. Magma is the best band ever
Geinoh Yamashirogumi is an amazing, wierd, challenging music collective from Japan with a great discography! If you love Magma you will probably like Geinoh Yamashirogumi! Some of the most original music ever made! Their first album is my favorite!
Francois Ka-Hain, Zhannick Top (not Yannick), and Guy Delacroix on earth bass and air bass on Attahk. The Paganottis are Bernard's kids, brother and sister. And Herve Aknin is pronounced Air-vay Ak-nun.
Great ranking! I love Magma! Are you into any other zeuhl bands like Eskaton, Archaia, Shub Niggurath, Serge Bringolf, Koenji Hyakkei, Ruins, Bondage Fruit, Universal Totem Orchestra?
This is basically the only Zeuhl band I am familiar with - I stumbled upon them just digging for more 70's prog and was fascinated by everything they brought to the table. Incredibly unique and original group.
@@gordonblodgett6520 I can highly recomend Angherr Shispa by Koenji Hyakkei, 4visions by Eskaton and Rituale Alieno by Universal Totem Orchestra! There are alot of great zeuhl music!
@@gordonblodgett6520oh man DEFINITEL6 check out the eskaton record, its great music and might be the most impressive bass performance in recorded history, maybe after the jaco debut
That's a great Fen shirt, btw. I like the idea of the music in the background, but its always distracting and in the video with Ken Nardi and John it makes it hard to hear what they are saying in sometimes.
What is the song around 40:55 ? I head the lyrics of Kobaia but not really the instrumentalisation of the song, and I dont find a live version sounding like this...
M.D.K. 1 or 2, sure that's obv. Either slot is fine. But you put Attahk at 12?! That's totally nuts. On a final, longer, and far stranger note: You know, Merci never registered anywhere on my radar until very, very recently. And I think the album is more interesting then it appears at face value. Sure, and perhaps obviously, it is a clear departure from early Magma. In fact, in some capacity, one could even argue that Magma was somehow trying to "sell out", in spite of being, you know, Magma, or at the very least was attempting to broaden their appeal to a wider audience in ways that were incredibly off-putting to fans of their earlier work. But man like, even if they were selling out, that F#cking album is awesome. While the structural integrity of their music's cohesion is pushed to the extreme at times, as the band simultaneously juggles the emotion and occasional piercing command of 80's pop vocals alongside some very explosive and groovy funk/jazz instrumentation, as well as whatever constitutes Zheul influence, and depending on the version of the album you're listening to, and your sound system, what at times sounds almost like the faintest echoes of Kraftwerk, This album accomplishes its seemingly impossible goals far better than I would have ever expected to be possible. And it really is a testament to just how GOOD Magma is. Retrovision also gives a similar glimpse at this idea, but the combined vocal delivery and instrumentation in Call From The Dark, and I don't mind if you call me crazy for saying this, in another world, could have totally seen itself being played on American radio airwaves, had the band received better management and promotion during this time, and not like... collapsed all together. Like it sounds nuts, but listen to Jungle Love - Ice Cream Castle by The Time, and then tell me with a straight face that MAGMA couldn't have taken that number 91 slot on Billboard Magazine's Top Hot 100 tracks of 1985. Like, you know I'm right! Magma, like the band Magma, could have been somewhere on the very same pop charts of 85, the likes of which featured Like a Virgin, Take on Me, and Easy Lover were coasting. And that's nuts. I appreciate Merci from a very different perspective then I might for some other band. Sorry for this post being so long, ha. For the record, I'm not trying to convert you to being an odd-duck 80s pop album connoisseur. But there is some very strange merit to their later works. But also, Attahk is their 2nd best album easily, and I'm STILL MAD about it. Casually relegating it to 12 is heresy.
Very tough catalog to rank. Merci was totally misunderstood by its fan base. Attahk is excellent. I guess I see the earlier ones as more classic but they're basically almost all classic!
have u heard that japanese girl band "xoxo extreme" their band is called.. they covered the Magma song " the last seven minutes" from the Attahk album from 1978 xoxo extremes cover song of that is good its in you tube i could link it to you
Honestly, I don't listen to much jazz, or anything before about 1967 or when prog rock started happening. I do enjoy some fusion-type stuff, but I'm glad Christian Vander was so inspired to go on and create this World of Magma. I do enjoy their version of jazz!
@@jasonmillion5970 Samla Mammas Manna, Tipographica, Opus Avantra, Geinoh Yamashirogumi, are some other great avant-prog bands you might wanna check out if you like Henry Cow!
oh cool yeah you're close to my age. Do u own every album from Magma ? i have most of their studio albums They're amazing i wanna see them live before Christian Vander passes. im not sure when theyre playing in new york. Im in New York
Thanks for this review of the non-live records. I have some thoughts as a long-time fan and someone who published an article about them in 1988 in Option magazine. The importance of Kartehl is not so much in the songs, but in the fact that this was Magma's first post-Covid release and it represents Christian doing three things: (1) Having other band members write some of the songs, (2) celebrating the happiness of being out in public again, and (3) honoring Rene Garber, Stundehr, his long-time friend who died years ago. The two demo songs were Christian and Rene working together, and it is interesting to see how he now does those same songs with the new band, which has 7 (!) singers- vocals have always been a strong point with Magma, and seeing them sing MDK- at extreme velocity!- is one of the most exciting things I have seen, and I have seem them do it 3 times. I can also say that while Kohntarkosz is my favorite Magma song of all time (and I even have a copy of them doing it live at a concert I went to in Chicago in 1999), seeing Slag Tanz live, with Phillip Bussonett on bass, was certainly the most intense song I've ever heard- phenomenally intense and powerful. I also note that Merci has some important compositions on it, notably Otis and Call From the Dark (which became an Offering song that gave Isabelle Feuillebois a chance to take a lead vocal). Vander has worked hard to reconfigure and reconstruct his songs, so there are ample examples of each song and its mutations over time- to see how a song such a Tittelbon gets rolled into something else, how Zombies became Big Zombies became ER Part 2 and so on. This is the best band ever.
Thanks for this information - I did not know the background behind Kartehl. Slagle Tanz is a bit under the radar but incredible as the dark, heavy piece. They really are an incredible (Genius) band.
@@gordonblodgett6520 this is a great rendition of Theusz Hamtaahk: th-cam.com/video/xjYnuhIlnIU/w-d-xo.html
42:10 - the classic renditions of Zëss told of total destruction at its climax, the multiple "oms" signifying the floating debris. Whereas 2019's studio version has a newly-composed coda after the final (and only) "om", signifying while there was a destructive conflict, it didn't annihilate everything. Recovery and hope grew out of the ashes.
Source: one of Christian's french interviews around the time of the 2019 recording sessions.
I respect your rankings! Tho' mine are a little different:
1. Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré.
2. Félicité Thösz.
3. Zëss.
4. Köhntarkösz.
5. Šlaǧ Tanƶ.
6. Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh.
7. Rïah Sahïltaahk.
8. Üdü Ẁüdü.
9. Attahk.
10. K.A.
11. Ẁurdah Ïtah.
12. Merci.
13. Kãrtëhl.
14. 1001° Centigrades.
15. Kobaïa.
Not that the bottom three are bad in any way, still damn fine music! I did a gap between 7 & 8 as I feel the Top 7 are brilliant throughout, whereas the Bottom 8 have highs, mids & even a low here & there.
I can highly recomend the album Shintokumaru by J.A. Caesar! It's a japanese psychedelic prog rock zeuhl opera from the 1978. One of the best albums I've ever heard!
I loved this! Finally a comprehensive treatment of Magma by someone who knows what he's talking about!!
My own ranking is not that far off from yours, but I've always thought that MDK is just a bit overrated (as Magma's legendary and best-known album). It's actually behind Kohntarkosz (#1), Theusz Hamtaahk and Wurdah Itah (sharing the #2 spot) for me. I'd put it at #4, tied with Ëmëhntëhtt-Ré, and K.A. at #6 (all six of those works being grand masterpieces 30+ min. in length that stand head and shoulders above all the rest.) But I'll admit that I AM judging by live versions, not studio albums (as you are), as I believe the heart of Magma is in live performance and many of the pieces are only fully developed live. (W.I. would have to be much lower for me if we went by that rushed weekend project of the studio album version.) And I'd have to put Merci in the basement, although Attahk is low in my list as well.
Some clarifications: In the mythology, Rïah Sahïltaahk is the name of a powerful member of the spiritualist society that determined to leave Earth for Kobaia. But he believed that he had the power to rescue the people on Earth from their venality and stayed behind when the other members of the society left. However, he soon realized that his cause was hopeless and set out for Kobaia on his own. He gets stranded on a way planet though, trapped in a rising flood. He tries to use all of his esoteric powers to control nature and stop the water from rising, but fails and is drowned.
Kohntarkosz I covers the entry to the tomb, moments of E-re's life played out in murals on the wall that come to life, then a final blistering moment when the dust of E-re emerges from his tomb and enters K, uniting the men for a brief moment. Part II is K reflecting on and trying to uncover what the meaning of that moment of union was, to recapture E-re's understanding of the secrets of life and death, with a triumphant conclusion added only in the live version.
K.A. is the story of Kohntarkosz before he became the prophet. It describes his life pre-discovery, then takes him through a voyage to the outside of the tomb of E-re at the end where he hears a deep voice greeting him and beckoning him to enter (cue Kohntarkosz). My understanding is that this trilogy is "historical" (20th century and ancient Egypt) but connected to the other trilogy in that the lost secrets that Kohntarkosz uncovers become the basis for the foundation of the spiritualist society that later leaves for Kobaia. It's a future history in other words, a reinterpretation of the past (and what's important in it) based on the perspective of the Kobaians in the future.
The Paga Paga twins that sang with the group were the son and daughter of the bass player (half-Japanese).
Zess. Give it time. I used to feel as you did (so bland in the middle! Is this music--or just a patterned background for a dramatic poem?) but it grew on me, and I began to hear the nuances in all that repetition.
Wow! Great Write-Up on this! And I agree this music is usually enjoyed even more through certain live performances. Tough band to rank for sure.
And of course their current bassist is the son of legendary bassist Jannick Top.
The first 7 Magma albums are classics. I'd put Attahk at 7th
Steller review/ranking!
oh cool yeah im a huge Magma Fanatic.. your rankings on Magma are good i would put kobaia higher than 8th rank i cant even rank their albums from Kobaia to Attahk I love all of those albums the same. I agree with you on the album Merci though im not into that album as much I like their other albums after that still too up to their latest album. Magma is the best band ever
Geinoh Yamashirogumi is an amazing, wierd, challenging music collective from Japan with a great discography! If you love Magma you will probably like Geinoh Yamashirogumi! Some of the most original music ever made! Their first album is my favorite!
Retrovision is my absolute favorite Magma track! Tëha, Lïhns, Om Zanka, Vers la nuit, and De Futura are awesome too!
Francois Ka-Hain, Zhannick Top (not Yannick), and Guy Delacroix on earth bass and air bass on Attahk. The Paganottis are Bernard's kids, brother and sister. And Herve Aknin is pronounced Air-vay Ak-nun.
Great ranking! I love Magma! Are you into any other zeuhl bands like Eskaton, Archaia, Shub Niggurath, Serge Bringolf, Koenji Hyakkei, Ruins, Bondage Fruit, Universal Totem Orchestra?
This is basically the only Zeuhl band I am familiar with - I stumbled upon them just digging for more 70's prog and was fascinated by everything they brought to the table. Incredibly unique and original group.
@@gordonblodgett6520 I can highly recomend Angherr Shispa by Koenji Hyakkei, 4visions by Eskaton and Rituale Alieno by Universal Totem Orchestra! There are alot of great zeuhl music!
@@gordonblodgett6520oh man DEFINITEL6 check out the eskaton record, its great music and might be the most impressive bass performance in recorded history, maybe after the jaco debut
@@jasonmillion5970 What are you talking about?
@bertkarlsson1421 the original Shub Niggurath band is a Zeuhl band I have them and like them. The metal one I dont have
That's a great Fen shirt, btw.
I like the idea of the music in the background, but its always distracting and in the video with Ken Nardi and John it makes it hard to hear what they are saying in sometimes.
What is the song around 40:55 ? I head the lyrics of Kobaia but not really the instrumentalisation of the song, and I dont find a live version sounding like this...
It's Kobah from the Live Album (1975)
M.D.K. 1 or 2, sure that's obv. Either slot is fine. But you put Attahk at 12?! That's totally nuts.
On a final, longer, and far stranger note:
You know, Merci never registered anywhere on my radar until very, very recently. And I think the album is more interesting then it appears at face value.
Sure, and perhaps obviously, it is a clear departure from early Magma. In fact, in some capacity, one could even argue that Magma was somehow trying to "sell out", in spite of being, you know, Magma, or at the very least was attempting to broaden their appeal to a wider audience in ways that were incredibly off-putting to fans of their earlier work.
But man like, even if they were selling out, that F#cking album is awesome.
While the structural integrity of their music's cohesion is pushed to the extreme at times, as the band simultaneously juggles the emotion and occasional piercing command of 80's pop vocals alongside some very explosive and groovy funk/jazz instrumentation, as well as whatever constitutes Zheul influence, and depending on the version of the album you're listening to, and your sound system, what at times sounds almost like the faintest echoes of Kraftwerk, This album accomplishes its seemingly impossible goals far better than I would have ever expected to be possible.
And it really is a testament to just how GOOD Magma is. Retrovision also gives a similar glimpse at this idea, but the combined vocal delivery and instrumentation in Call From The Dark, and I don't mind if you call me crazy for saying this, in another world, could have totally seen itself being played on American radio airwaves, had the band received better management and promotion during this time, and not like... collapsed all together. Like it sounds nuts, but listen to Jungle Love - Ice Cream Castle by The Time, and then tell me with a straight face that MAGMA couldn't have taken that number 91 slot on Billboard Magazine's Top Hot 100 tracks of 1985. Like, you know I'm right!
Magma, like the band Magma, could have been somewhere on the very same pop charts of 85, the likes of which featured Like a Virgin, Take on Me, and Easy Lover were coasting. And that's nuts.
I appreciate Merci from a very different perspective then I might for some other band.
Sorry for this post being so long, ha.
For the record, I'm not trying to convert you to being an odd-duck 80s pop album connoisseur. But there is some very strange merit to their later works.
But also, Attahk is their 2nd best album easily, and I'm STILL MAD about it. Casually relegating it to 12 is heresy.
Very tough catalog to rank. Merci was totally misunderstood by its fan base. Attahk is excellent. I guess I see the earlier ones as more classic but they're basically almost all classic!
Gordon, can you rank the albums of RIO band Henry Cow?
Fred Frith
I'm not sure where my other message went but I asked if you had heard Univers Zero before, because I think you would really enjoy them
I really need to listen. I've been aware of them for a while now! They seem to be right up my alley - obscure, dark, challenging listen...
@gordonblodgett6520 listen in chronological order when you do. The first album through Heatwave are amazing
Univers Zero are amazing! Their first album is my favorite, but all albums I've heard from them have been great!
@@doopum1 Did you listen to Haikara?
@@bertkarlsson1421 they were OK, but not something I would reach for
Fantastic Band!!!!!
have u heard that japanese girl band "xoxo extreme" their band is called.. they covered the Magma song " the last seven minutes" from the Attahk album from 1978 xoxo extremes cover song of that is good its in you tube i could link it to you
44:02 The logo is on the Kartehl album, 112 times.
🔥🔥🔥😬
Do u listen to any of john coltranes music
Honestly, I don't listen to much jazz, or anything before about 1967 or when prog rock started happening. I do enjoy some fusion-type stuff, but I'm glad Christian Vander was so inspired to go on and create this World of Magma. I do enjoy their version of jazz!
Ever hear of the band Henry Cow? They're really good too
@@jasonmillion5970 Samla Mammas Manna, Tipographica, Opus Avantra, Geinoh Yamashirogumi, are some other great avant-prog bands you might wanna check out if you like Henry Cow!
@@jasonmillion5970Have you heard Samla Mammas Manna? Another great RIO band!
Zao is a great band too. Two members of Magma are with them but christian vander wasn't in Zao
how old are u ? just curious
Ha! Well, I'm in my 40s still. I was a teenager when we recorded the 2nd demo.
oh cool yeah you're close to my age. Do u own every album from Magma ? i have most of their studio albums They're amazing i wanna see them live before Christian Vander passes. im not sure when theyre playing in new york. Im in New York
@@jasonmillion5970 I don't own all of them but have just about everything aside from Merci and the most recent one Kartehl.