Why I LOVE Cube-Style Monitors: My Look at the Reftones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ธ.ค. 2019
- In this video, Justin Colletti talks about one of his favorite speaker designs in history: The closed-back cube style of monitors, first popularized by the original Auratone Super Sound Cubes in the 1970s.
Justin talks about what makes this design so important, why it makes it so much easier to do your job well, and why it's one of his favorite speakers for recording and mixing,
Today, numerous versions of this extremely successful type of studio monitor are available. Our sponsor for this episode, Reftone, makes a relatively high fi take on this design, with deeper bass and higher highs.
Check them out reftone.com
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Auratone was my family's business. I cannot tell you how many Cubes passed through my hands. To make sure the Cube was sealed we connected each one to a signal and literally held them up to our face to check for air leaks before they passed one of the many inspections. The new version of the Cube is manufactured by my nephew Alexander Jacobsen, working from the specs of the original 5C Super Sound Cubes. Of course he has done some modernizing but he has kept the sound that was so valuable in the original Cubes.
Interesting history. Hey do you know of the Ampex 414 (circa 60s?) speakers? Were the auratone cubes inspired by theses way back or hm maybe the other way around. I’ve been trying to use them for mixing but they are while very good looking pretty brittle (high mids) sounding. I hope to compare them to the cubes one day soon.
@@chinmeysway I am not familiar with the Apex 414. As far as I know the design and concept for Auratone cubes were completely from my father's imagination. He began making very large "furniture" size speaker enclosures in 1958. I don't know which year he developed the cubes. I spent many hours as a young girl doing "listening" tests and comparisons with him. He also made use of an anechoic chamber to fine tune the sound of all of the Auratone systems.
😮😮😮😮😮😮 omg, this is crazy!
Dave Hampton is my best friend of almost 40 years and we talked many nights about his vision to fill this need when he first had the idea to make them. Lots of testing different iterations and components were done to be sure they cover a lot of ground in a small form factor. I'm very proud of him and the impact that Reftones have made that is still growing.
Just bought a new pair of Auratones and that is the best purchase I ever made. My mixes have never sounded better. It is absolutely ridiculous how easy it is to mix on these speakers...
Awesome to hear. Agreed!
I’ve been using a Samson Servo amp which is certainly good enough, and one if the better products that company makes, but there are plenty of options.
A lot of people like Crown or Hafler amps for these and I used to work at a studio that ran its original Auratones with Brystons, which may be overkill :)
Reftone has a list of recommended amps here: reftone.com/support/recommended-power-amps/
I have auratone 5cs and they’re the best for a good mix to translate on any system.... they’re so sick I recommend anyone who mixes to go buy them!!!!!
hey man, I've been thinking about purchasing a single Auratone to mix but I have no idea how to hook it up to my Scarlett 2i4. Can you give me any advice on how to set it up? Thanks!
@@malreymusic hey! Auratoone 5c is a passive monitor and requires an amp. I purchased the entire package of 2 monitors plus the amp all from Auratone...I used to have a pair of Mixcubes that were active monitors but the sound was not giving me - in my case - any good results. The Auratones are amazing - the original ones not clones
@@ChestermereToday wow thank you so much for your prompt response! I'll def get a pair right now thanks to you! Cheers
Justin! We're back in different appearance again :) Always glad to watch your videos!
Thanks Justin, very informative. I also saw your podcast with reference to audio engineer employment earlier last year and thought it too quite informative. Respect to you and your craft!👍🏽
Very helpful, I cant wait to give them a try. Thanks!
Man, this video was probably the most informative thing I've seen in a long time.
I love how in depth you went... and how positive you are with the review. I just saw a review before yours about 8 minutes long that went over how useless these are nowadays.
You touched on every point people could even consider, all in one video, thank you for your effort and information.
this was fantastic!
i came here to check about the mix cubes, i left knowing more about speakers in general, thanks for the knowledge
Great! Inspired info for the masses!
HAPPY NEW YEAR! And all the best for 2020!
Right back at you Frank!
I can say that these type of speakers definitely can help your balances. I have a mono Avantone Mixcube and I use it at least 40 to 60% of the amount of mixing and 80% when I'm working on balances. Happy New Year!!!
Me too!
Excellent info. Many thanks
I have worked on OB s ( Onsite board-casts) in TV land for over 20 yrs. 1st time I laid eyes/ ears on an original Auratone was when another "Dave" Hanna from Auzzie, probs one of the top senior sound mixers in the Southern hemisphere and in my part of the world the South pacific Island of New Zealand. He religiously traveled around with one Aurotone to check his final mix and to check if the mix collapsed in mono. Since then I have been a believer.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about them. I'm excited to find out for myself how good these monitors are. I have the auratones.
Man thanks for the info people need to know if it sounds good on these two it’ll sounds everywhere
I trust my cube reftone more than all the other fancy speakers I have used over decades. Best investment I have ever made.and these have 300 watts!
Back in 1988 I went with the Yamaha NS-40m's (3 way). I still use them today with a few other systems of small speakers. I am an old rocker so for my listening pleasure I turn my Yamaha 18" 3 way stage system on...I still love to feel and touch the sound :) Joe
Good stuff Justin. Not enough love for the 5C's on TH-cam. I've got to get a pair of these and do a review myself.
I'm having problems with everything you just explained great video I'm getting a pair of these
Beware!
Insanely in depth review 🙏🏼
Old School . . . YOU ~ ROCK ! !
Yes the midrange is key to translation. It's the only band that is reasonably consistent between different speaker's (even scooped ones!) while the highs and lows vary considerably.
7:53 That dramatic pause tho 😂😂
I appreciate the info very much. Curious. Would just a single Reftone for mixing in mono suffice or is a set of Reftones a must?
I have the new Auratones and I love them .... I can hear the mid range so good with them....
I'm debating to buy aventone mix cue or Yamaha ns10m , to your opinion. Thx
Still use them when mixing in2023?
Thanks for the very interesting talk about the Reftones compared to the original auratones monitors. One comment you made regarding non ported speaker boxes, was having less resonance issues. I am not sure how resonances are connected with having a port or not. Could you elaborate on that or point me to any information about it?
I've been eyeing the avatones and aurotones up for a while now. As always your videos was very informative, and I am ready to start shopping very soon. I have a pair of the Adam Audio t5v which are ok, but got a lot better results after I installed the IK ARC 2.5. I am hoping these cube speakers take me to the next level.
ARC and Sonarworks are great. But they should really come after you treat the room. I don't know what you have done in that area.
@@Take-the-Ticket I have some treatment. To my understanding the reftones should be pretty good in a lot of different listening situations.
Thank you Justin. Very informative. I am a smooth jazz saxophonist, and producer that creates, plays, mixes and masters my own compositions. I have been researching studio monitors a little everyday for several months. Even went to a couple music stores to A/B monitors with music I really know. My hearing has developed to the point that I know I would not be satisfied with monitors in the lower price range. I have a good sounding room and a set of active Alesis m1 MK II (100 watt, 50hz to 22khz) which sound really good for producing, but are really not accurate enough for mixing and mastering. I use Beyerdynamic 880 pro headphones for mixing and use the Alesis monitors and a boom box for reference. After much research, I am seriously considering the passive Reftones with a Crown power amp. I think by adding these to my setup, it will speed things up by smoothing out the process so I can be more creative musically, and be more confident in my mixes. Been following you for several years now. Really appreciate your tutorials. Thank you.
Hello Jacquel ! Nice to see a self-recording-producing saxophonist here, I came to music production from being saxophonist too. So did you get your cube speakers? I'm also about to obtains a pair of them in near future.
Hey Max. Sorry for the late response. I ended up replacing my Alesis monitors with a pair of Focal Alpha 80 Evo 8-inch Powered Studio Monitors. I also added a pair of IK Multimedia iLoud micro monitors. I also use ARC 3 room correction software. I am finally happy with my studio setup.
@@jacquelamontharenberg Nice choice Jacquel, you’ve equipped yr studio like a pro 👍👍👍
I use a set of Avantone in my home studio. Will these new Reftone be better?
I know the most important thing is to know your monitor (and room), but with deeper bottoms and more top end, Reftone might be better to mix on.
I have the Behritone C50as and what a huge difference they can make
Also the lack of crossover means perfect phase coherency across the spectrum. Thinking of getting some now. Anything to justify buying more speakers really
We know the feeling!
How do they perform in terms of front to back representation compared to a two or three way design?
Awesome, but what about the amp for those Reftones? Which one do you advise, please?
I will say these little speakers are nice to have and they are really easy to build order the parts and make a pair. These are very simplistic speakers to build verse expensive monitor speakers.
Should I get one or two? I see studios with both and I'm wondering how important the second one is.
Ok ok I'm buying now
Can you please tell me how much heat the avantone mixcubes generate if any? I have a massive heat problem in my little studio and can't have any additional source if heat but want to buy the avantone mixcubes, thanks
Hi ! Really informative video !
I'm planning to move in a new city (meaning working in an untreated bedroom for a while) and I need a compact solution to keep working on my mixes.
I was thinking mixing on my Audio Technica ATH-50 headphones for details and use a pair of active Auratones Cubes for the main work. Any opinions about this ?
Thanks! That could be a great way to go until you can get working in a better-treated environment. If I was working on speakers in an untreated space, some type of cube monitor would absolutely be my first choice for a lot of the heavy lifting.
-Justin
Will the Reftone ld3 original version not the Bluetooth version work with a focusrite 18i20 3rd gen interface?
I just picked up the British version (or so it's said ) AKG LSM50 pair. Have yet to set them up.
Really interesting video. Thanks. Do you need a studio amp for these guys? What do you use?
Yes, they are passive speakers, so an amp is required. I have a Samson Servo that I used for testing these, though there are higher end options and even cheaper options that could serve you well.
Compared to speakers, amps (or any electronic devices) are relatively easy to get right. This is not to say they’re not a factor. Just not a major one.
Listen to one or two options in your price range and see what you like better-if you hear a significant difference at all. These days it’s not hard to audition more than one option in your own studio (or at a retailer if you’re in a major metro area.) But it’s not a choice you have to be too precious about I’d say.
Reftone has a list of recommended amps here: reftone.com/support/recommended-power-amps/
Mentioning frequency response per line of speakers could be super useful just an observation. As subjective description of sound is always hard to really go off of! But those seem cool for sure
Why not do a comparison between the two in this video and the Avantone Mixcube, and the new Auratone 5Cs?
really interesting.... closed speakers are the best, mixing low ore loud, (as my own designed 3way/closed) but cube style looks the great path fore accuracy...
does anyone know if I can buy an active version of the recent aura tone 5c reissues? Thanks x ... hymn, maybe I should use these reftones instead they look cool, and as the awesome video explains, the designer knows what he's doing... hymn. :)
I bought a pair of Avantone AV-AB’s today and I’m considering bringing them back. I feel I’ll just boost the bass whenever I reference on them. Then I’ll switch back to my mains and have too much bass and too little mid range. My mixes sound like pooh on cellphone speakers and I was thinking that these would help... its giving me anxiety bro! Plz help Jason!!!!
Can you use this set of refton without needing any other studio monitors?
Alex Jacobsen at Auratone replaced my speakers and refurbished my 5Cs back in 2015 for $50/speaker. I wonder if that's still an option?
Once again... Justin convinces me to spend more money. I'm going to only be able to watch these types of videos after a payday. I hope he's getting some type of affiliate revenue.
I have krks 5 for my little bedroom studio and I like them have gotten used to them I’m not looking to be mixing my future tracks because of the lack of treatment and wanting a second set of good ears on my songs. But the question is would these be good just to replace the krks for a music production or to have the secondary set of speakers keeping the krks.
These would be better than Rokits. The Rockits sound like monitors, with extended high and low, just not very nice ones. Auratones sound like an alarm clock radio, NO lows or highs, and they force you to focus on the part of the mix that matters most (midrange, i.e. about 200hz to 8khz)
Great video, Justin. How do the reftones compare to the Avantone's stereo set?
The Reftones have slightly greater bandwidth, stretching going lower into the lows and higher into the highs. The Avantones, in turn, have slightly greater bandwidth than the original Auratones. The Reftones are easily the most "full range" speakers being made in this this style today. That's the angle they're going for.
SonicScoop is there a particular amp that you would recommend to use with them?
What you think about Fostex 6301B small monitors? I found to buy them cheap. Do they can do auratones job?
I know this is not a QnA session, but Justin, if you are listening ... I would love to hear more about the " if the low end sounds good on these, they will sound good on everything else"... why ? how? what is the nerdy science behind this?
Well, maybe. ) But what'd you tell about DMAX super cubes 5 ?
It's made by Russian manufacturers, being not the "ordinary yet another" cube, having frequency and phase correction attached implemented with DSP.
We looked at it recently and it really sounds as precise as if you are in headphones.
Have you met those in a wild?
Would be nice to see your review on those.
Can someone please let me know how much heat the auratone 5c active monitors generate fully operational? It's really important for me. Thank you all
Just got a pair of these a few weeks ago and I love them for what they are!!! What amp do you use?
Great to hear! Justin has a Samson Servo for these, though you can go higher end (or more compact) than that if you want. Reftone has a list of recommended amps here: reftone.com/support/recommended-power-amps/
thank you! useful video. what amp are you using to power them?
Justin is using a Samson Servo, but there are a lot of great options from Crown to Hafler to Dayton to ART and more. Here's Reftone's list of recommended amps: reftone.com/support/recommended-power-amps/
Its possible to use 11 of this speakers with a Dolby Atmos setup?
Justin, if I purchased passive Reftones, would I need to purchase a separate amplifier, or can my Focusrite audio device power those passive speakers? Also you didn't mention about getting one speaker (completely mono) vs. getting two. Any thoughts?
All top producers are mixing on notebook speakers
Usually, when they say, 'this and that album was mixed on this or that speaker' what that really means is 'I saw those on the meter bridge'. I put very little stock in such claims.
Lisa of Reftone told me they are about to make arrangements with a EU-based dealer. Very soon (she said hopefully by the end of June). I can't wait.
Didn't happen in the end...
Beginner question here, if Im looking to get my first studio mixing monitors should I get the standard systems or just go for these?
Great question. It depends a bit on your budget and needs. It really is ideal to have a bigger system that can tell you additional things about the top and bottom in addition to a small cube-style speaker that can help you make great mix decisions.
If you were ONLY going to have one set and wanted something in this style, the Reftones would probably be the speaker in this style to look at, because they are practically full range, from 70Hz all the way up. They'd make a great primary monitor for people on remote sessions, and could work as a primary monitor in a small studio.
But you'd probably want to make sure you are working with a good mastering engineer to help you make decisions about the very bottom end. That's true for just about ANY speaker though, especially in smaller rooms and other compromised environments.
-Justin
I actually think They started making Auratones again couple of years Back. Then there are also the avantones and Behritones, a.o.
Indeed they did. Those are the more recent design that seeks to emulate the original Auratones more directly. They are not an exact remake, but they are pretty close. The Reftones are more about being an improvement on the original design principle for modern music production. Justin reviewed the Avantones and Behrintones when they first came out and compared the to the original Auratones here: justincolletti.com/2012/01/28/auratones-avantones-and-behritones/
Are the Bluetooth ones enough volume for a bedroom?
Love your videos Justin. I've had Reftones for a couple years and they are great tools. It's funny because I've never considered Thriller an amazingly mixed album. No disrespect to Bruce because he's a legend and a genius. And they had insane technical limitations (but an unlimited budget lol). Separating the fact that it's Michael and the songs are all smashes no matter how it's mixed. Songs like Startin Somethin, Billie Jean and Human Nature the vocals are so low and the shakers are so loud. They are decent mixes and sonically pretty balanced but I've never considered them amazing. And who knows, that could be Quincy insisting on those particular balances.
It's interesting, I was listening recently and found in some songs MJs lead lower than the BGVs. I was thinking maybe it was a popular mixing style of that time, or maybe just because of the car system I was listening to.
I know they are two way but have you ever heard of the Acoustic Research 750 speakers. I use them as my small monitors. They are like 30 years old.
Aren't those called Acoustic Research "Powered Partners" as well?
@@dennisalves8766 Yes I believe they are.
12:07 Our **brains** and **ears** didn't change, since the 60s.
A fair point for sure, thanks for sharing it. You’re not wrong, and I think there’s some real merit in both arguments. I think it’s one of those cases where you’ve just got to try things and figure out what kind of monitoring system gives you the best results.
@@JustinColletti I mix on quite a few speakers and headphones (most of which I know very very well). I don't have any "mixcube'"-style speakers, but I do use an old Philips full-range speaker (in mono) a lot, in the spirit of Auratone.
Still, I ended up on this video again, because I simply can't shake off my craving towards getting some Auratone speakers. I've been lusting for them literally since 1989/1990'ish, when I was 11 years old 😅
I was looking at the mixcube from avantone then I saw the reftone 🤤
Avanton has a slightly larger diameter speaker and has a Built-in Active Amplifier (this is an Advantage + less price) ..
Which model did you buy in the end?
any thoughts on a single/mono active avantone vs a single/mono new passive auratone + power amp? thanks!
They are both good as well. The Auratones sound a little closer to the originals, with more a a band-limited frequency response. The Avantones open up the spectrum a little bit and go a bit deeper and higher. The Reftones go even further in that direction, and have the most low and high frequency response of the three if you are looking for a more modern and more full-range approach.
Hope that helps,
Justin
Ok, thanks!!!
Mod House Audio mini-cubes are awesome, and cheap.
Just unplug your tweeters. The tweeter going out on my one of my KRKs helped my mixes like crazy 😂😂I thought it was going to be a disaster but I noticed that the tweeter doesn't let you hear as much bass and mids. With no tweeter its like a semi standalone subwoofer. I just use headphones for panning
re-dopde tha tweeter with an acrylic based emulsion. KRK tweeters tend to lose that material. if you look at them you will probably notice it. once the air passes through the tweeter it wont work anymore
In an interview in Sound on Sound published in 2009, Bruce Swedian said he uses Auratones about 80% of the time, but he also takes a final listen or two on big custom Westlake 3-way monitors. On another note, I wonder how the sound stage imaging is on the Reftones?
Hi Justin, what do you think of these compared to something like ADAM A5X or 3x?
The A5X are probably the best full range monitors I’ve tried in their size and price range.Really excellent. Totally different beast though. They go down to nearly 50Hz. A pair of monitors like that could very much be complemented by a cube style monitor.
In fact, I used to mix on a pair of A5Xs with a pair of Auratones about a decade or more ago. Got good results.
Hope that helps!
-Justin
@@SonicScoop thanks for your quick reply Justin! Would you say the AX3 are too small?
Wasnt the initial mix of Thriller disastrous? Was it the 1st or 2nd mix done on Aurotones.
I believe the story is that the final version of Thriller was mixed predominantly on Auratones.
There are some pretty damn good mixes on Thriller! Engineer Bruce Swedien and producer Quincy Jones who worked on that record were both big fans of the speaker.
-Justin
I have been looking into mixcube style speakers lately (online)... One thing I struggle with is the price. Are they really worth the price of a full range monitor? These days you can by something like Kali LP-8, which got some amazing reviews, and still save some money compared to these. These reftones are over 200$ for a single passive speaker, they just seem a bit pricey.
They are apples and oranges I would say. If you could only have one set of speakers, a good full range multidriver set is probably wise. But if you were going to have two sets, a good full range set plus something like this is probably the way that I would go.
That said, if you were only going to have one set and they needed to be super portable, or if you wanted them to be a cube style design but not lose all your bottom and top, then of all of the cubes, Reftones are probably some of the better ones to look at.
@@SonicScoop Thanks for the input, appreciate it!
This confuses me. I threw an EQ plug-in on my master out bus that mimics the Auratones. It sounds terrible. If I bring the bass up to where I can just hear it, they are booming when I bypass the filter. So, even if you get it to sound good on these, what happens when it’s bottom heavy when the monitors kick in? In other words,you can blast the bass and it won’t be too loud on the Auratones snd you would have no idea how full they really are. Please educate me as to how these can help at all when they produce such a limited frequency range
Easy... Adjust your bass after you switch to your bigger speakers. Because if the mids are right the bass is easy to get back a notch . Match it with the mid feel and done 👍
And its not a honest mimic to put a EQ on your master to see how a Auratone feel. Its not an Auratone,very important!
@@Magnum_Opus_Music thanks. I will try this
@@trusso11783 your welcome my friend! Thats how they work,since they have no bass you adjust that later,mixing is getting very easy once you got the hang of it 👍
Or you can set your initial sub bass level with the Mains and next set the mid bass in the mixcubes with eq, saturation, or whatever you want.
I know they sell these as pairs but general guidance is only to use one a a mono monitor and not to use two You should use your main monitor for stereo mixing. What’s everyone’s take on this ?
11:55 I thought that was the point
I thought you could still by new Auratones? I bought a pair directly from the company About 4 years ago
They have reissued them. They sound a little different and a little more broadband than the originals from decades ago, but are probably the closest option to them currently in production. The Reftones are even more broadband still, with additional high and low frequency content. Hope that helps!
-Justin
You are very knowledgeable but it would have been helpful to do a side to side comparison of this type of speaker with a two-way monitor.
I've been thinking of building a set of cubes of my own. And it has been my experience that a lot of vintage speakers do well as studio monitors. NS10s aren't the only old speakers that can do what they do. They were just a fluke that got popular by proving useful. There are plenty of potential flukes out there in the vintage market. And new ones could be made. And since everyone perceive sound a little bit different from each other i came to the conclusion that i should build my own and pick a driver that i find work best for my ears. There will be a bit of trial and error for sure, but i'm confident that some of the cheaper drivers will be the better drivers for this purpose. Besides, its more fun this way.
Sounds fun, let us know how it turns out!
@@SonicScoop it will be a while before i get to it.
I want to know how to properly rig a multi monitor setup ! I've only seen tutorials on using a PreSonus Monitor Station or passive/Active monitor controllers. Judging by all the naggy comments and dislikes on the videos, they do not seem like the correct methods to build a multi monitoring setup. Do you know what the real device is to use here? And what device you own? Then I'll take off with the information and do my own research, thanks again, I've been loving this series (:
Budget friendly - Drawmer.. Mid-grade - 2400 Audio.. High end - Dangerous Music or Crane Song..
I use a Coleman passive monitor switcher that is very cost effective and neutral. The LS3.
The PreSonus stuff really isn’t bad, but I’ve found the left-right balance gets a little off on the bottom couple clicks of the dial, and yes there are potential tradeoffs with active switching.
If budget isn’t a big issue, I like the Dangerous stuff quite a bit.
This video caused me to buy a pair of cube speakers, but I went with Auratones plus a Samson Servo 120A amp because I bought it all used for a good deal. In fact, I'm listening to your video on the Auratones now! ;-)
These speakers allow me to hear compression and imaging changes very easily. I really appreciate that!
However, I mixed a song on the Auratones and upon checking it in my car, the song was extremely bass-heavy and boomy. I even checked my mix in HD650 cans and my mains (JBL308s and a sub). What the heck, right? In fact, the mid-range seemed really weak in the song. And per the Auratones, I thought I mixed it properly. Back to the drawing board, I guess...
Any other tips and tricks with these cube-style speakers? Also, since these are so small, should they be on top of stands to get them to the same height of the sweet spots of the main speakers? EDIT: I'm also thinking that since these types of speakers have no problem with loudness, they should be placed at the same distance and location as the mains?
Yes, one potential problem with smaller speakers is if you go around boosting things that you can’t hear!
One of the potential positives about smaller speakers, is that if you use them right, you make sure that you are not boosting things that you can’t hear :-)
Whether NS10s or Auratones, you can have an over abundance of frequencies below 100 Hz if you were doing a lot of booths in that area. By the time you have a boosted frequencies lower than 100 Hz enough that they are audible on the smaller speakers, you are most certainly have too much low end.
Better yet to avoid boosting those frequencies at all, and just work on the mid range up. Chances are, your mix will end up sounding very balanced, even on larger speakers. If the low end turns out to be slightly lacking, then your mastering engineer can help bring those up.
But if you get the midrange right, it’s rare that the bottom and needs to be brought up very much at all.
You have to get used to any type of speaker. If you are not used to mixing on vintage auratones, they will probably sound much more midrangey than you expect.
This is often a benefit to mixers, as one of the major problems in newer people’s mixes is that they are far too midrangey.
Things like auratones and NS 10s will push the midrange forward, and therefore, push people in the direction of getting a little bit more polished sounding slight “scoop” out of their midrange, without the overabundance of 200-600hz that is common with newer mixers.
You’ll definitely want to learn a lot of great sounding mixers sound like on auratones, just as with any other type of speaker. They do have a learning curve, just like anything else. But that learning curve is a whole lot easier on them and most speakers, particularly in a poorly treated room.
If you do want to hear more low end out of this style of speaker, and to have a flatter, less pushed midrange that encourages you to do less scooping, then the Reftones could be a better bet for you.
YMMV, but all that’s my experience with these types of speakers and that of many others. Hope that helps!
-Justin
@@SonicScoop Justin, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I appreciate that.
Overall, I think you're spot-on in regards to boosting what I can't hear. Instead, I must focus on the midrange, as intended, by these speakers. I am still in the learning curve, for sure.
With respect to their physical position, what do you suggest? I have then mounted on my desktop, up on some isolation foam (about 2" thick) on either side of my two, LCD screens, so they are wide'ish and low, but not as wide as my mains, which reside about 1-3/4 ft back (along the triangle) on stands. The tweeters of my mains are also higher up, about 1-1/2 feet above the center cone of the Auratones. Many pictures I have seen online keep the cube-type speakers down low on the table/console top.
If you're on a budget and really want the CLA 10's (top of your budget) or these mixcubes, what do you recommend? Cheers
Hey man I use the Behritone C50as and I can say they definitely help and they're on the cheaper side. I can't give you a comparison but I can say they helped me.
I prefer the cube style of speakers to ns10 style speakers, but it really is personal preference. Try them both!
I find the cube style monitors to be flatter and more pleasant to listen to, and equally as useful, but some people prefer working on the ns10s, and find their quirks really help push them in the right direction. Find a way to audition them for yourself if you can.
But if spending more money on the speakers keeps you from spending anything in acoustic treatment or other essential upgrades, I’d say definitely go for cheaper speakers with some acoustic treatment than more expensive speakers with none, as a general rule.
Justin Colletti thanks. I’ve had Dynaudio BM5A’s for 12 years and just looking for a contrast reference, if you will. I’m about to move into a new house with a bigger room and will have proper paneling mounted, etc. Definitely most important, as you said! 👊🏻
How could the powered Reftones be any Good? One Cabinet has an AMP in side and the other does Not, The air Volume and Cabinet size are Different form Left to Right....
If you're thinking about buying some Reftones or Auratones, listen to this discussion about between Warren Huart and Dave Pensado. Pensado explains how and why to use them. Good stuff. Go to 1 hour mark here. th-cam.com/video/BIy7KnSt5WM/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, that's video's OK, but this one's better :-D
I have some clones made by SoundDevices.
I just put an EQ on my master and listen to different bandpassed frequency ranges.
That's a fascinating idea. I wish I could tell you that I'd thought about that before, but I totally hadn't.
So let me get this straight....you pop an EQ on your master fader and create a curve that mimicks certain frequencies like most of the common speakers people listen to their music on ...like bluetooth speakers etc....or you just notch a frequency and see how the tracks blend together in that small area to get an idea of how things are gelling? How would you know what that curve looks and sounds like as a standard? And once you dial things in, do you just take it off of the master fader altogether so everything goes back to normal sonically, but with the leveling and EQ changes etc now in effect? Doesn't that make it sound like crap? And doesn't that kinda make the entire point of having a good set of monitors worthless? I guess you're mixing for a certain...phase. I totally get the idea. But it makes me think that maybe if you found the best way to mix, you'd just always mix with that as an effect knowing it's giving you the most honest sound possible. Almost like pre EQing your monitors.
This kinda reminds me of over-accentuating certain frequencies on purpose in a mix so they'd come out sounding just right after mp3 compression because the algorithm was robbing those frequencies in the process, and still does. I remember hearing something about mixing tracks for Itunes compression. Anyway...this stuff shouldn't be this hard ya know? Thanks for the heads up.
and P.s. I listened to your tracks and they sound good so you must be doing something right. Congrats.
@@mrmemyselfandi9609 I just put an EQ on the master, hi-pass at 400 and low-pass around 7k. I put it in mono too. I'm just listening to see how the midrange sounds, make sure the bass is present, etc. An Aurotone probably has more detail in the midrange, but this works for me for now (I'm on Focal Alpha 80s btw).
@@mrmemyselfandi9609 I get that this is months late, but you could always try throwing airwindows monitoring on the master or preferably in your monitoring section. It has several different options including an auratone type.
Is there a budget mono type speaker out there. There must be. Yes. No. Maybe?
That was to hole point was to.be limited if you wantwd more just get a speaker
Because full range don't have time phase shift problem....
I just wanted to hear the speakers a bit :/
Couldn't one just use a high pass filter, take out all the low end and simulate this on other monitors?
Unfortunately, no. That would not get you the transient response and phase coherence of a closed box single driver speaker. (And you would also have to roll off a little bit of high-end too :-)
The reftones in particular actually go quite deep for their size. The potentially limited frequency response is not the only - - or even necessarily the single most important - - factor at play here.
It is one of at least three (possibly 4) important factors at play here.
Hope that helps make sense of it!
-Justin
let's remember, yamaha ns-10s were never intended for studio use... they were just inexpensive bookshelf speakers for home listening that BECAME studio standards... but they were never worth more than a couple hundred bucks, TOPS... likewise, the auratones were cheap boxes we could use to simulate car speakers... we used them to cross-check mixes etc... most times there would only be ONE auratone mounted atop and in then center of the meter bridge of the console... the mythical stature is just hype, but it's good for resale and for the companies making 'tribute' products... just my 3¢...
Remember that there’s been a lot of inflation since the NS-10s were introduced in 1978. A couple hundred bucks back in the 80s and 90s is not far off from the kind of prices you see from them today on the used market!
Generally, prices on used items will go down rather than remain so relatively stable adjusted for inflation, but when they’re a perpetually popular item that’s not being made anymore (and when the potential user base for them keeps growing) that changes the economics of it a bit. Prices can keep from dropping (adjusted for inflation) or even go up that way.
Fortunately, as the price to value of both these classic speaker designs changes, reissues have been coming out.
But people are still interested in them not because of mythology, but because of *usefulness*. And even today, there aren’t very many great alternatives for either of these kinds of design, which are still popular for good reason.
Most speaker designs marketed for the studio employ ported designs with pretty large woofers and very small tweeters. This helps these speakers “win” in a quick sip test, and they can have objectively better performance in some domains. But there are tradeoffs.
Porting changes the resonance and transient response of the low end compared to a closed box in exchange for deeper lows. Smaller tweeters than what the NS10s employ can put out higher highs with less distortion, but only by demanding a larger woofer handle higher and higher frequencies it’s not well equipped to deliver on.
I’d agree that NS10s arguably sound “bad” in that their midrange is a bit exaggerated in the 1k+ area, and the upper frequency response is a bit more erratic than us ideal.
But I don’t think the original auratones sound bad at all. They have tremendous transient response and pretty darn good frequency response too. They are just band limited, lacking in lows and highs. Reftone addresses that criticism by turning this style of monitor into a more full-range solution.
In any event, it’s not mythology that caused these kinds of speakers to become popular. It’s the fact that people who learn to mix well on them easily get better results than they would otherwise.
I’d argue that the mythology developed because of their popularity (which developed because of their usefulness). Not the other way around!
Try learning to mix really well on either design regularly for a while and see if you disagree!
Long answer but I hope it’s a useful one.
@@JustinColletti yes, of course... (and nothing i said was meant to criticize your always-helpful videos)... i was simply 'cautioning' against the sort of blindness so many of us fall into, thinking we 'must have' a set of vintage NS-10s or Auratones instead of whatever we already have... the simple truth is that amazing records (some of the best even) were made before those speakers existed, and many more will be made without them... 'use whatcha got' and LEARN the gear you have... every generation has 'hit' equipment, including monitors (Genelecs, KRoks, etc etc)... great music can be made with _anything..._ peace n thanks... a subscriber...
True story, I’m with you on all that!
There is very little in the studio that is actually “must have”. Great work can be done on so many kinds of systems and with so many different types of gear.
Thanks so much for watching, and for sharing your view.
Theres an easier and faster way.
Has anyone just plopped a car speaker into an empty speaker box and used that instead for reference mixing? ha ha. jk, I wouldn't mind getting a pair of these.
18 minutes and we didn't get to hear the damn speakers once!
😂 Good one! Thanks Ben, I think we all needed that
Those shits are way to expensive