It is a mistake to think the projectile grain weight has anything to do with recoil. Recoil is about cartridge pressure i.e. powder energetics and powder load. You can make any grain weight projectile have more or less recoil. The reason one projectile grain weight feels different from another is the amount and type of powder being used to gain a specific velocity for that particular weight projectile, not the weight of the projectile alone. I have been Manufacturing OEM ammunition on a large scale for quite a while. Not every 115 grain cartridge will recoil the same. Same thing with 124, 147 etc. It is about overall cartridge design objective. Just a friendly FYI. Very well made video by the way. I really like your channel.
Its a physics question.. to make a 145g bullet go 1000fps requires more immediate force then it would take for a 115g bullet to do the same. So you're not wrong at all (for anyone thinking im disagreeing) but boiling it down it basically means bigger bullet has "more" recoil for the same fps as a small bullet...
@@j0shll0ydmuzzle velocity and bullet weight. But you also need to know what length of barrel the testing was done out of... also the type of powder used... also the recoil spring poundage... also the rifling... the only way to know is to shoot it out of your own gun because there is no standard other then what you feel.
Needed and fun comparison. I’ve never shot differently loaded magazines. I almost always have one type of target ammunition when I go practice. Ill shoot a few of my defense rounds once a year just to get some new rounds.
They definitely are a more purposeful round. I'm gonna buy them when I see them again, but I won't use em for regular plinking, but in competition, yes
I don’t know anything about guns and just bought a sar9x. Was confused about the ammo since there was so many different types. I thought the higher the grain the bigger the kick so I was always looking for high grain but ended up getting 400 rounds of 115 since that’s all I could find. Glad I made a good decision.
Depends on the caliber and the size of the case. The kick is usually related to length of barrel. 115gr will kick more out of a 3 inch barrel than a 5 inch barrel. The 115 barel kicks in my AR 9mm with a 8" barrel.
@@andrewmconradso as I return to the sport, start out with a G19 not a G26, loaded withe the 150 grain Syntech? It’s probably a little quieter too, no sound barrier crack, right?
I definitely prefer 147 and 150 grain for my compact carry guns, the recoil is a softer push and follow up shots are much easier. However for my full size 9mm hand guns I prefer the 115 and 124. The recoil is significantly less with a larger gun anyway so it doesn’t make much of a difference in felt recoil in my experience.
What do you consider full size “enough”? 4”, 4.5”, 5”? Before my kids came - grown up now - the Glock 26 felt like less recoil than the FNP 9, and a gen 3 (single not compound spring) didn’t feel any softer than the 26. I was shocked the FNP felt so snappy for its size and weight; but I didn’t track ammo way back then so maybe that was part of my problem.
I've been inexpensive for many years 1st 9mm was Berreta 92s. 1987. Always shot Us military surplus 115. Now 2021 have just steel 115. Andrew making me look for 147,150 .thanks
It’s nice, but a specific ammo. I wouldn’t go shoot 400 rounds of this in a range session. You’ll feel a difference in the recoil, but since it’s expensive, limit the amount you shoot
I just found some Syntech 150 gr action pistol at the local gun shop, including 500-round bulk packs. Availability, selection and prices are improving the past month. But the 50-round pack was the same price per round so I got one to try. I already liked the 115 gr range version. If the 150 gr cycles okay in my Shield Plus, I'll got more. So far the Shield Plus has been glitch-free with everything else, but those were mostly 108-125 gr FMJ and HP, all standard pressure. Not planning to use +P in the Shield Plus due to the throated feed ramp, although it's probably safe enough -- 9mm brass has a stout web at the rim -- but +P+ is probably not a good idea.
@@andrewmconrad , haven't had a chance to try the 150 gr Syntech ammo yet. I overestimated my arthritic wrists and thumb joints after my last range session in late December after getting a Shield Plus. I probably shouldn't have shot 250 rounds in a single session, including some full power .357 Magnum out of my Ruger SP-101 snubbie. Mostly it's from racking that super-stiff recoil spring on the Shield Plus. Great little carry pistol, but I'm gonna need something with an easier spring for routine range sessions. Had to give my hands a few weeks to recover. Don't get old, folks. 😬👴💀
@@andrewmconrad , hey, I just got back from the range and shot a box of 50 of the Syntech 150 gr flat nose lipstick rounds. No problems in various pistols including my own Shield Plus and a rental SIG P365 SAS. Very pleasant shooting round, softer shooting than the 115 gr Syntech flat nose. Definitely well suited to teaching beginners or routine training for anyone who needs to work on technique that might be thwarted by harder recoiling rounds. My wrist and thumb joints are still aching a bit so I'll stick with these 150 gr Syntechs for awhile for the range.
Is it reasonable to assume the weight difference of 115 vs 147 in a fully loaded magazine would dampen the felt recoil as the gun would be heavier overall.?
heavier bullets (147 and 150 grain) will actually hit the target higher from closer range this is because it takes slightly longer for the heavier bullet to leave the muzzle so the bullet will strike higher on paper. let's say 10 yards and in. lighter weight bullets, however, will impact lower because they shoot out of the barrel much faster. in regards to hollowpoints, lighter-weight hollowpoints will expand more rapidly but lose penetration. heavier bullets will dive deeper into the target but can lose velocity at the cost of expansion. 124 grain is a good compromise. I run 147 grain out of 4.17 inch g48, however, I would suggest you do your own research on your firearm and bullet type so you can get the best performance you are looking for.
Probably a difference in powder & primers in the Syntech. From what little I know, the 150gr is designed to be subsonic and to have both a hotter primer and a faster burning powder. All aimed at keeping guns cleaner while using a suppressor. From the many subsonics I auditioned... Syntech 150gr was definitely the quietest.
From Just the View watching this video... what I saw in full screen mode with a ruler on pause mode, comparing the 147 g your hand moved higher than with the other two. The "Pull Up" or "knock Up" was the least with what you say is the 115g Bullets.
Energy = mass * velocity ^ 2 The mass of the projectile is much less of a factor than its velocity all else being equal (e.g. mass of the gun, spring rates, etc.)
now i know federal makes a blue and purple and red syntec bullet but which one is better for going to the gun range and keeping my gun cleaner. i just want to get out to the range and start shooting and become more better with my weapon. i wish i could've made a target practice in my back yard and shoot all day but i can't lol. but help me out please
I am a new shooter and the first time I shot 147gr 9mm (from the usual 115gr) I was printing low on everything...does that seem correct? However, I couldn't really say if there was a signicant decrease in recoil.
My neighbor swears 140 gr shots softer then 115gr. If you Google it you find both are softer depending on who you listen to. Winchester even has a chart showing 115 is softer. Cool way to reset those plates. I shoot more accurate with 115.
Why Pay $24 for a box of the red tip 9 mm when you can save $5 just by buying the brass tip if all you're going to do is target practice. When I want good protection I keep my 9 mm Ruger Security 9 loaded with 150 grain hollow points.
I favor heavier bullets in 9mm. My Glock 17 & 19 are both loaded with S&B 150gr. The 150's are also subsonic; advantage if you have to shoot them indoors. Good video.
The purple 147 are loaded hotter than the red loads in the same weight. If you had the red 147 loads they would kick less than the purple. Red syntech are soft competition rounds. Purple are training rounds designed to mimic ballistics and feel of operational defensive ammo, therefore loaded hotter. Not an accurate test. You should have used all the same, red syntech in all 3 weights.
the 147 and 150 you can see a difference when it hits the plates! A lot harder impact than the 115 from the increased foot pounds of energy! Probably the point of impact is a little different too, I would imagine the heavier bullet maybe hits a little lower! Have to test that on paper! Have a good one!
It hits differently from conservation of momentum. Heavier ammo typically has less energy than lighter, since energy squares with velocity while the velocity imparted on it with the same charge is linked to the -1st power of its weight.
@@andrewmconrad I have everything from 108gr to 147gr in 9mm and didn't really feel a difference when testing them although I'm sure I would feel it if shot a whole mag of each(too expensive these days to test all my carry ammo that thoroughly😂). Usually train with 115gr
Nothing to do with the difference in grain weight and everything to do with different skus/brands/lines of ammo and your brain thinking you can notice a difference. Lol
Shot 150 grain for the first time 2 days ago, such a soft smooth feel compared to the 115 grain
So smooth
Does it hit harder compared to 115 grain due to heavier weight and slower velocity ?
@@TheRealB1gA it's probably just less pressure, if heavier slower rounds kicked less 45acp would be a breeze to shoot
Its the amt and type of powder, not the weight of the projectile. 👍🏻
It is a mistake to think the projectile grain weight has anything to do with recoil. Recoil is about cartridge pressure i.e. powder energetics and powder load. You can make any grain weight projectile have more or less recoil. The reason one projectile grain weight feels different from another is the amount and type of powder being used to gain a specific velocity for that particular weight projectile, not the weight of the projectile alone. I have been Manufacturing OEM ammunition on a large scale for quite a while. Not every 115 grain cartridge will recoil the same. Same thing with 124, 147 etc. It is about overall cartridge design objective. Just a friendly FYI. Very well made video by the way. I really like your channel.
Any meaningful difference between 3” and 4” barrels in pistols within a couple of ounces (and same brand/bore axis)?
What specs does 1 look for on the box to know what kind of recoil to expect?
Josh, yah I’d like to know as well.
Its a physics question.. to make a 145g bullet go 1000fps requires more immediate force then it would take for a 115g bullet to do the same. So you're not wrong at all (for anyone thinking im disagreeing) but boiling it down it basically means bigger bullet has "more" recoil for the same fps as a small bullet...
@@j0shll0ydmuzzle velocity and bullet weight. But you also need to know what length of barrel the testing was done out of... also the type of powder used... also the recoil spring poundage... also the rifling... the only way to know is to shoot it out of your own gun because there is no standard other then what you feel.
The 150gr are USPSA loaded to meet minimum power. So they are light loaded. I good comparison would be the 150’s vs the 115gr Eley USPSA ammo.
And this guy thinking he’s found the holy grail in 150 grain, never gonna find it again ammo. Lol these vids are hilarious.
What he needs is to practice. I can run a plate rack with my revolver division 929 faster than that lol
Thanks. I just got a couple boxes of Syntech, 115 and 150. If the 150 is indeed a little softer I’m going to adopt it as my range and defense ammo.
Both grains are good ammo but they AIN'T defense ammo.
Yeah I would get a jhp don't bet on ball. This is competition ammo
Needed and fun comparison. I’ve never shot differently loaded magazines. I almost always have one type of target ammunition when I go practice. Ill shoot a few of my defense rounds once a year just to get some new rounds.
You should shoot some different weight bullets and see and feel the difference. It's pretty noticiable
@@andrewmconrad Definitely going to try it
I was looking at some of those red tips at BP, I figured might as well get copper/lead for 5$ less
They definitely are a more purposeful round. I'm gonna buy them when I see them again, but I won't use em for regular plinking, but in competition, yes
I shoot 115- 124 -147 and you can feel the difference in the recoil. Thanks for the video
I didn't really expect there to be that much of a difference, but there was
I don’t know anything about guns and just bought a sar9x. Was confused about the ammo since there was so many different types. I thought the higher the grain the bigger the kick so I was always looking for high grain but ended up getting 400 rounds of 115 since that’s all I could find. Glad I made a good decision.
Depends on the caliber and the size of the case. The kick is usually related to length of barrel. 115gr will kick more out of a 3 inch barrel than a 5 inch barrel. The 115 barel kicks in my AR 9mm with a 8" barrel.
@@andrewmconradso as I return to the sport, start out with a G19 not a G26, loaded withe the 150 grain Syntech? It’s probably a little quieter too, no sound barrier crack, right?
I definitely prefer 147 and 150 grain for my compact carry guns, the recoil is a softer push and follow up shots are much easier. However for my full size 9mm hand guns I prefer the 115 and 124. The recoil is significantly less with a larger gun anyway so it doesn’t make much of a difference in felt recoil in my experience.
What do you consider full size “enough”? 4”, 4.5”, 5”? Before my kids came - grown up now - the Glock 26 felt like less recoil than the FNP 9, and a gen 3 (single not compound spring) didn’t feel any softer than the 26. I was shocked the FNP felt so snappy for its size and weight; but I didn’t track ammo way back then so maybe that was part of my problem.
I've been inexpensive for many years 1st 9mm was Berreta 92s. 1987. Always shot Us military surplus 115. Now 2021 have just steel 115. Andrew making me look for 147,150 .thanks
Andrew ,saw you at Smash live you need to consider the JOIN To help you. I'm in when you decide. Thanks Andrew
Those purple 147’s shoot awesome in my open gun
Yeah, I love the 150’s
My local gun store had a pallet of the 150 grains for $30 for 50 pack , bought one box to try at the range , may go back and buy more if I like it
It’s nice, but a specific ammo. I wouldn’t go shoot 400 rounds of this in a range session. You’ll feel a difference in the recoil, but since it’s expensive, limit the amount you shoot
Very helpful thank you
I just found some Syntech 150 gr action pistol at the local gun shop, including 500-round bulk packs. Availability, selection and prices are improving the past month. But the 50-round pack was the same price per round so I got one to try. I already liked the 115 gr range version. If the 150 gr cycles okay in my Shield Plus, I'll got more. So far the Shield Plus has been glitch-free with everything else, but those were mostly 108-125 gr FMJ and HP, all standard pressure. Not planning to use +P in the Shield Plus due to the throated feed ramp, although it's probably safe enough -- 9mm brass has a stout web at the rim -- but +P+ is probably not a good idea.
How’d it go with these? Did you notice a difference?
@@andrewmconrad , haven't had a chance to try the 150 gr Syntech ammo yet. I overestimated my arthritic wrists and thumb joints after my last range session in late December after getting a Shield Plus. I probably shouldn't have shot 250 rounds in a single session, including some full power .357 Magnum out of my Ruger SP-101 snubbie. Mostly it's from racking that super-stiff recoil spring on the Shield Plus. Great little carry pistol, but I'm gonna need something with an easier spring for routine range sessions. Had to give my hands a few weeks to recover. Don't get old, folks. 😬👴💀
@@andrewmconrad , hey, I just got back from the range and shot a box of 50 of the Syntech 150 gr flat nose lipstick rounds. No problems in various pistols including my own Shield Plus and a rental SIG P365 SAS. Very pleasant shooting round, softer shooting than the 115 gr Syntech flat nose. Definitely well suited to teaching beginners or routine training for anyone who needs to work on technique that might be thwarted by harder recoiling rounds. My wrist and thumb joints are still aching a bit so I'll stick with these 150 gr Syntechs for awhile for the range.
@@theparalexview785your comment really helps me.
Is it reasonable to assume the weight difference of 115 vs 147 in a fully loaded magazine would dampen the felt recoil as the gun would be heavier overall.?
Think about it. The lighter projectile is rocketed out, vs. the behemoth heavy slug.
heavier bullets (147 and 150 grain) will actually hit the target higher from closer range this is because it takes slightly longer for the heavier bullet to leave the muzzle so the bullet will strike higher on paper. let's say 10 yards and in. lighter weight bullets, however, will impact lower because they shoot out of the barrel much faster.
in regards to hollowpoints, lighter-weight hollowpoints will expand more rapidly but lose penetration.
heavier bullets will dive deeper into the target but can lose velocity at the cost of expansion.
124 grain is a good compromise. I run 147 grain out of 4.17 inch g48, however, I would suggest you do your own research on your firearm and bullet type so you can get the best performance you are looking for.
Probably a difference in powder & primers in the Syntech. From what little I know, the 150gr is designed to be subsonic and to have both a hotter primer and a faster burning powder. All aimed at keeping guns cleaner while using a suppressor.
From the many subsonics I auditioned... Syntech 150gr was definitely the quietest.
I actually could see the difference. Nice video.
From Just the View watching this video... what I saw in full screen mode with a ruler on pause mode, comparing the 147 g your hand moved higher than with the other two. The "Pull Up" or "knock Up" was the least with what you say is the 115g Bullets.
Cause it’s all in his head.
0:39 “can you feel the difference” then you say “you be the judge”…no…you be the judge wtf? Lol
Thanks for the info
Where do you buy your ammo?
The legion x5 isn’t the best handgun to use for this. It’s tuned for light ammo
Energy = mass * velocity ^ 2
The mass of the projectile is much less of a factor than its velocity all else being equal (e.g. mass of the gun, spring rates, etc.)
Any feeding/cycling issues? Have the opportunity to buy a bunch of 150gr for my unsuppressed Ruger pcc, should I pull the trig?
Don't know about a PCC, but in my X5 legion they run flawlessly
@@andrewmconradNice, thank you! Great video
now i know federal makes a blue and purple and red syntec bullet but which one is better for going to the gun range and keeping my gun cleaner. i just want to get out to the range and start shooting and become more better with my weapon. i wish i could've made a target practice in my back yard and shoot all day but i can't lol. but help me out please
Great vid! I’ll pick some 150 grain next time I see it.
Definitely going to train a little with regular 147gr fmj's too
Operator, Joe needs a physics lesson! If you’re doing 1300 with a 115 and you’re doing about 950 with a 150 there really is no comparison.
My local ammo dealer has em for $20 a box of 50. Time to stock up again.
I am a new shooter and the first time I shot 147gr 9mm (from the usual 115gr) I was printing low on everything...does that seem correct? However, I couldn't really say if there was a signicant decrease in recoil.
any ammo change will change point of impact. always re zero
My neighbor swears 140 gr shots softer then 115gr. If you Google it you find both are softer depending on who you listen to. Winchester even has a chart showing 115 is softer. Cool way to reset those plates. I shoot more accurate with 115.
@Andrew Conrad What brand is that 150gr?
Federal syntech
Thank you!
I’d love to see a gel test with these!
Hmmmm, now you've got me curious as to how they'd do
I have a Taurus G2c Will it Shoot those to I Wonder Good?
Why Pay $24 for a box of the red tip 9 mm when you can save $5 just by buying the brass tip if all you're going to do is target practice. When I want good protection I keep my 9 mm Ruger Security 9 loaded with 150 grain hollow points.
I use the red tip 150gr in competition and no where else
Clean, no lead
I favor heavier bullets in 9mm. My Glock 17 & 19 are both loaded with S&B 150gr. The 150's are also subsonic; advantage if you have to shoot them indoors. Good video.
Nice. I got some 147 grain hollow points to try out and see. They should be pretty similar in terms of subsonic. Interested to give them a try
@@andrewmconrad Though many don't describe them as subsonic, the 147gr & up ammo falls below the 1,100 fps subsonic level.
I have 115 ball and 124 hollow didn't really feel a difference.
Are those federal synthec frangible?
Negative. It's a synthetic coated projectile that prevents metal on metal inside the barrel
Hope people don’t confuse this with simulation rounds
I worry about that too. I think it needs to go in the safe with a cautionary note.
If you don't mind me asking.
SO DO YOU THINK YHAT 124 HAS LESS RECOIL AS A 115 GRAIN 9MM OR ARE THEY EQUAL
Negligible difference to 115 and 124 in my opinion. You might feel a slight difference between those and 147gr
@@andrewmconrad WOULD YOU USE 124 OR 115 IN A GLOCK 43
Obvious difference in recoil. 150 grain seemed like nice smooth action with the least amount of muzzle flip. Great competition rd. .
Definitely a great competition round. Glad I decided to make the switch. I'll be using them for the foreseeable future as long as I can find them
I'd think the lighter grain would recoil less due to the less weight being pushed and pushed back into your hand. Hmm.
@markbroad119 That is my experience with my 509 tactical. Going from 150 to 90gr. 90 has almost no muzzle flip
Chronograph the different grains
It’s on my list of things to get
Never saw the purple
Obviously lower recoil with heavier bullets, the powder charge is less. Duh!
150 Gran shot's with less.🤔
Very interesting 🤔
I got 100 Gran I'v never shot yet
For salf defense might get 150g
The purple 147 are loaded hotter than the red loads in the same weight. If you had the red 147 loads they would kick less than the purple. Red syntech are soft competition rounds. Purple are training rounds designed to mimic ballistics and feel of operational defensive ammo, therefore loaded hotter. Not an accurate test. You should have used all the same, red syntech in all 3 weights.
the 147 and 150 you can see a difference when it hits the plates! A lot harder impact than the 115 from the increased foot pounds of energy! Probably the point of impact is a little different too, I would imagine the heavier bullet maybe hits a little lower! Have to test that on paper! Have a good one!
I’m no expert but I don’t think you’re gonna have any drop at 10 yards
It did hit a little differently. I will have to test this stuff on paper
It hits differently from conservation of momentum.
Heavier ammo typically has less energy than lighter, since energy squares with velocity while the velocity imparted on it with the same charge is linked to the -1st power of its weight.
Honestly they all looked about the same to me haha
Lol, gotta try it in person. You’ll “feel” the difference
@@andrewmconrad I have everything from 108gr to 147gr in 9mm and didn't really feel a difference when testing them although I'm sure I would feel it if shot a whole mag of each(too expensive these days to test all my carry ammo that thoroughly😂). Usually train with 115gr
I run 147gr fmj
Interesting. I've never seen 150 grain 9mm.
Love em
👍👍
Obviously, the 150 grain had more knockdown power when it hit the targets. Prove me wrong.
It is a heavier projectile, so that make be true. I'd have to do official scientific testing to prove it one way or the other
Lol..2min Tuesday…all good need😬
Cheap ammo bucks hard
First comment!
Nothing to do with the difference in grain weight and everything to do with different skus/brands/lines of ammo and your brain thinking you can notice a difference. Lol
I can feel the difference in recoil between 115 and 150