I'll check em out. The more i play sonic likes, sonic fan games and official sonic games the more and more i realise: i have no idea what the hell i want out of sonic💀
@@blackmegaman2lmao175 well, i'm ready for this. I've been a sonic fan since childhood, it's not the first time. Although it's a pity they probably won't return to this formula
@@Fewix_I get where your concerns might be coming from, but they said countless times that this is the new direction they want to take and even Sonic X Shadow Generations is having some sort of "open zone" area. So, I'm pretty sure they are not throwing away Frontiers' formula, at least not entirely
Sonic Team should really make a silver the hedgehog game, if they really want to appeal more to immature and simple thinking people. 'Cause Silver's pretty much everything people would ever want. Do anything you want with psychic; dominate the every enemy, obstacles, levels with PK; not worry about gaps, gravity, momentum, environmental angles, or physics, 'cause who needs physics when you've got the nen riki, Saikokineshisu! With the only drawback being the level design playing tricks on you and challenging the idealistic gameplay.
I think the problem I have with the momentum-based homing attack is the same problem you have with the lack of air drag: making sonic way too mobile, forcing the level design to be unreasonably massive, which becomes a massive headache when you try to make a whole game like this. Sonic robo blast 2 avoids this problem by having a very limited sonic, meaning he actually has to play the game. (Also the weird acceleration in srb2 is a side effect of being on the doom engine, and the lack of slope usage is because slopes were only added very recently, so a lot of the levels aren’t really built to take advantage of it, like egg rock, which doesn’t even have slopes since the level design hasn’t changed in 15 years)
@@jackhumphries1087 That's just not true, a lot of levels did change drastically. The only two zones that didn't change that much besides Egg Rock Zone are Greenflower Zone and Techno Hill Zone. Even still, those were subject to medium overhauls, so while they look similar to their old incarnations, they've got a lot of differences if you pay attention to them. Every other zone in the game was either remade or massively overhauled to the point that they barely (if at all) match with their older counterparts from previous versions. Arid Canyon Zone is completely different, Red Volcano Zone was massively overhauled, Castle Eggman Zone is essentially a completely new zone now and Deep Sea Zone only looks similar in a few choice rooms in the second act. Egg Rock Zone was set to be completely remade similar to Arid Canyon Zone/Castle Eggman Zone and there were early screenshots from private in-dev 2.2 builds circulating around online showing how the new Egg Rock Zone remake looked completely different from it's old 2.0/2.1 layout, it had some new areas centered around slopes and them being mixed with reverse gravity as well as some old rooms being completely redone from scratch or visually upgraded. Of course, the Egg Rock Zone remake wasn't finished in time, so it's old incarnation from v2.1 was essentially reused with minimal changes minus a couple of sections at the end of act 2 and the enlarged zoom tubes that came later in one of v2.2's patches.
15:33 Actually, according to the offical wiki, the SRB2 dev team has managed to implement functioning wall/ceiling running, loops, a better acceleration curve, and a new momentum system to facilitate these changes! These features are planned for future versions of the game. Real exciting stuff, but it seems like it'll be a while before an update including these comes out though.
@@theepiccrystal2154 I believe the devs themselves have come out and said that all of the old screenshots and GIFs of in-dev v2.3 are very outdated and don't represent at all how the game looks like now. Yeah, it's mostly an issue coming from the devs themselves since they are very stingy on communication regarding how far in development v2.3 and what it will actually feature. They don't even use the official site for updates anymore and they prefer to just randomly leak screenshots on their own Discord server of all places.
what i like about robo blast 2 is that it understands the core of what sonic is sonic isnt about speed sonic is a platformer with a character that just so happens to have the ability to go fast
While I don't disagree that SEGA wants their games to be accessible to their own detriment, I don't necessarily think that's the sole reason Sonic Team has been unwilling to make a 3D Sonic game like Utopia. I think a lot of the ideas driving Sonic Team aren't to "recreate the classic game style" or "make classic Sonic in 3D." I think their focus has always been, since Adventure 1, to push the games further and make them new and different experiences. Whether or not they succeed in making a good product is one thing. But I don't think anyone can claim that striving to not just do the same thing over and over again is commendable, especially in a game market that currently values just pumping out identical experiences on a yearly basis. There's no denying that a perfect 3D recreation of Genesis Sonic with lots of complex mechanical depth would be extremely fun, but Sonic Team, from all I've heard from them, won't make that game because they don't see going back and doing what they already did again as worthwhile. I think they would tell you "we did momentum-based, high speed platforming already in the 90s" and to go play those games. I think they would say the evolution of Sonic since Adventure has been "high-speed action" or "adrenaline experiences." We look at the modern games and see lack of player agency and mechanical depth. I'm sure they would see the same things and say that they did so to try and deliver a very specific experience. I think SEGA is interested in appealing to mass markets and I think Sonic Team is interested in evolution and innovation and won't make a Utopia game because they want to make something else, something totally new. Sonic isn't one perfect, ideal game experience to them. He's just the medium through which they experiment, to varying degrees of success. And I'm sure they realize that plenty of fan creators are making these games well enough on their own.
Ah, but you who's ideal and perfect? SILVER! He is everything people want. Completely different, Idealistic mindset, brashness, feelings over intelligence, better puzzle orientation, SAIKOKINESHISU!
Problem I have with this is that Sonic Frontiers is very much just another typical AAA open world game, but with Sonic. It literally just did what everyone else was and is doing. Then we have Shadow Generations, which while looking way better in every regard, is ultimately just an Expansion for a 13 year old game.
21:37 Funny you mention this, I have an HDMI to AV adapater and what I often do is put SRB2 in fullscreen, lower the resolution close to what Saturn had, load in the Jam model and play the game on an old CRT I have. It's a ton of fun playing it this way, it really does feel like I'm trying out an old 90s Sonic game on Saturn through most of it
You noticed what those 3 games had in common? The had lots of platforming and manual control, something all platforms have but Sonic Team seems to be scared of.
Not really. There's plenty of platforming in Sonic games, especially in the later one's. Maybe less since it's more focused on speed, but it's definitely still there.
@@sikosonix901 there is basically no platforming in Forces, and the platforming in Frontiers is the most basic automated possible, it got better with the free dlc tho
@@realnova7429 Just because it is minimal, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The 2D sections in Sunset Heights, Luminous Forest, and Metropolitan Highway are good examples. They're short, and require very little input. But by definition, it is still platforming.
“No air drag” isn’t a problem if the developer accommodates or acknowledges it. Overgrowth is the best example of a fix for the “no air drag lets you skip levels” problem being solved. (Haste: broken worlds hasn’t released yet, but it looks like it employs a different solution to its character having no air drag where slope jumps do not give you too much height.) The fix that overgrowth implements is that gravity is incredibly strong, so strong that it is one of the few games where falling feels terrifying and vertiginous. The strength of the gravity makes landings snappy and long jumps thrilling.
@@Zerosaber91The spritework for X Sonic is amazing but it's clear gameplay balancing for him flew completely out the window. I also got a good chuckle Dark Sonic is a thing and has The Time Has Come from DMC4 as his theme
Yeah X Sonic seems to have been made as more of a novelty rather than something that's actually meant to be played, which is a shame because the sprites on that mod are spectacular, but actually playing it sucks.
It never even once occurred to me that maybe Sonic Team is making the games baby easy on purpose because they actually do want to primarily target a younger demographic. I’m mad that you’re definitely right 😭
Sonic games require your skills, intelligence. Which is why they should be moving on to Silver. When you have the power to defy physics and logic, it becomes feelings first and intelligence second. With the drawback being reality challenging your ideals. This is what Silver is all about. Sega/sonic team should move on to silver, like when the pokemon anime series moved on to horizons. Haven't they learned the message of sonic 06 about facing the future head on and letting go of the ones you hold dear in the past?
@@crimsonzone8984 I was thinking the same thing! The thing about Silver is, if you study his design, you can tell that Sega was originally planning to make Silver a slow character. First of all, he wears boots, not running shoes, which is not good for running but is useful for planting one’s feet and staying firm on the ground. Also, he has those gold cuffs on his arms and legs (with no lore to them whatsoever) that I would imagine weight him down. You also have his front quills that look like a wall and cause air resistance while moving instead of the quills of Sonic/Shadow that are slick back for speed. It would honestly be more interesting if Silver was a slow male hedgehog since we already have 2 fast male hedgehogs in the series. When you take away Silver’s superspeed, it becomes much easier to create a game that appeals to mainstream audiences. All you have to worry about is the telekinesis, which would provide a unique mechanic for distinct gameplay in Silver’s game. Those are just my thoughts tho.
Your point about Sonic Team not wanting their games to be too difficult because they want to appeal to a more general audience just makes me wish they had different levels of difficulty for their games. Im fine with there being a casual mode for people to play around with, but it certainly can't be too hard to have a challenge mode for people who like that sort of thing.
Most (not all) of these fan games are the reason why I’m still interested in playing Sonic games and excited about it unlike official games where I’m like “ugh more Sonic stuff by Sega just what the world needs”
SRB2 is the best 3D Sonic game ever made, or at least one of the best. So few 3D Sonic games compare to it, it does almost everything that I want out of this franchise right. I want Sonic Team to make that, but much better.
I'm not sure momentum gameplay would be so hard for general audiences if the games actually *tried* to teach it for the player. Even if you have to spoonfeed it through a tutorial that "going uphill slows you down" or whatever. Tony Hawk was basically momentum platforming, and that was popular, right?
I really like the compromise you proposed on-stream about giving the thok to a different character. I really love this move and would hate to see it go away; allegedly, it might be incompatible with changes that they are making to the physics system.
Hey pariah, I’m sure you’ve heard about this mod, but for srb2, there exists a mod that’s similar to yours called the Max control mod. It replaces the Thok with a momentum thrust with a slight height boost that works with your speed the peelout, which can be activated when you’re moving or not.(it even has the eight figure while your running), The momentum boost, which is the same thing as the advance 2 style boost, It has the drop dash and insta shield, A WALL DASH that gives you a vertical ish jump off the wall when you activate the drop dash in front of a wall, The air roll, which basically curls you up making it so you can use your abilities again after you get off a spring or fall off the edge The bounce ability, where you can use it up to three times, doesnt slow you down at all, and you can use the drop dash with it for a really strong speed boost, And hyper mcsonic, where you can fly freely in the air with 100 rings. The best part about this mod is that it changes up not only Sonic’s moveset, but Amy’s and tails! They have plenty of new moves you can use that you can check out by searching them up, and to top it all off, they have 3D models. I’ve been playing with this moveset for a long while, so I’ll say getting used to all of their skills isn’t too hard, but mastering them is when the whole map changes for the better.
That point you made during sonic utopia about sonic team wanting the games to be baby easy is def true but so frustrating. I played rush and generations as a kid and i was really bad at both and i still had fun. I never made it past the first boss of either, hell i couldnt beat the second zone in any of the classic games but i still had fun
Flying over the level after accumulating a lot of speed is not a problem IMO. I really enjoy it, and new players still experience the level the more traditional way, so no experience is really harmed I feel.
Now that there isn't going to be any SWAG until Shadow Gens, I'm really excited for more of your non-sonic reviews. I've been going through them and loving them. Like Batboy or the Crash Bandicoot series
8:00 I don’t think that’s why Sonic Team designs their games in this current way. It’s because they’ve been rushed out of the door most of the time and designed their games to be more practical for a formulaic design. Streamlining hallways make it more stable for them to design suitably paced levels without wasting resources and time.
Out of those, i've only played SRB2. Since i was very young. I agree with you on most of what you said. Also, i think some of your criticisms come from parts of the game being sorta remains of its vision pre-2.2. Like, it was going more for its own thing than the classic-in-3D thing, and i think it worked REALLY well too, but i do think they should change some stuff about the characters and level terrain to fit the new direction better. And one small correction. It is a complete package pretty much, but it's actually not finished. They want to add 2 levels (Dark City and Grand Eggship) and change the final boss.
I absolutely agree with you on Utopia. I grew up on Genesis Sonic and my first 3D Sonic experiences were Sonic World in Sonic Jam and Christmas Nights, so Adventure wasn't quite what I expected 3D Sonic to be. Frontiers, however, is pretty close to what I expected of 3D Sonic.
I do love the thok, the fact it can instantly change your direction with a huge burst of speed that can combo with an enemy bounce makes it super fun to zoom through levels, but I wouldn't be completely destroyed if it was replaced with the instashield in a future update. That move was fun for me in S3K, I'd love to play with it in 3D and see how many obstacles I can trivialize with it.
I've never fucked with RB2. The controls on K&M and controller never even came close to clicking with me. Honestly I only have fun in the game with the special stages. However, will note, as someone slightly involved in the DOOM community, RB2 is not only not beyond what the engine can do, it's pretty much running on an older fork of the engine. More modern sourceports can do some diabolical stuff. Edit: Holy bonkers your moveset mod for sonic actually looks like so much fun and makes use actually good use of the dropdash for maybe the first time in human history.
I think Sonic Robo Blast 2 is the true 3D Sonic The Hedgehog game that everyone wants. Though they should definitely put loops in the game in my opinion to make it feel more Sonic. There's also a Mario 64 mod, Chaotix mod and Junio Sonic mod for robo blast 2 as well I recommend it. Can you next time (eventually) please talk about Sonic Shuffle Sonic X JP and English and maybe some obscure Sonic Titles. Thanks for reading.
I was hoping Sonic World DX would be here! It's like a refined Heroes with fun character movesets, custom teams, momentum, ranks that don't just focus on speed, multiple missions for each zone, unlockables like extra moves, and tons of mods! It even has a solution for the air drag issue since characters fall faster and faster the longer they're in the air, and flight characters have height limits and a timer so they can't just skip everything TOO easily. It's still WIP and on a very archaic engine that doesn't support some computers (though there are ways to help fix that), but I think the devs are doing great work with what they got!
@StellaFangX So can't I! The wait's been hard, but I know they're cooking at the same heat! I just hope v2 gets a lot of new people into DX so we can have more mods!
@@speedslider3913 Yeah. More skins, more characters, more levels and maybe even mods and mechanics like in Robo Blast 2. But it will be a steep climb before getting there.
gt has a very significant amount of air drag, it's just only really noticeable in speedrunning. pinball+ (used for rollin rascal and other projects) uses a sorta exponential gravity curve and it feels a lot better also srb2's thok-surfing mechanic and how that allows you to control your height makes every section a speed section if you're confident enough, which makes it absolutely solo the classic sonic design formula in my opinion
Yeah SRB2 gets a lot of flack, but it’s genuinely the closest we have ever been to a full 3D Classic Sonic game. And while I don’t think how Sonic Team has been making 3D Sonic games has no value (Sonic Generations is like one of my favorite games ever), I would absolutely love to see Sonic Team try their hand at something closer to the design philosophy of Classic Sonic! And if Sonic Team themselves actually did that, we could finally shut up all the people who are like “uh that would never work otherwise they would have done it by now” people lol. Unfortunately, I doubt Sonic Team would ever go whole hog into this style of 3D Sonic purely because A.) The current staff were trained up by the people who made the 3D Sonic style of play that Sonic Adventure pioneered so we are now like two steps removed from Classic Sonic entirely and B.) I think Sonic Team knows a game like that probably wouldn’t sell as well as the kinda stuff they normally make with Sonic these days which sucks and is sad to say. But making a game that’s inherently more skill based means that basic normie players aren’t going to see a momentum based 3D Sonic game as this amazing fast paced video game, they’re going to see it as awkward and clunky for their one playthrough and then not pick it up again like the rest of us hardcore Sonic fans do. I think the best shot we have at getting an official 3D Sonic game like this would be Sonic Team partnering with Evening Star to make it. I’m willing to bet Frontiers 2 or whatever will have a higher focus on momentum, purely because Kishimoto was taking mass amounts of feedback about that and genuinely seeming to take to the idea, but I still think it will not ask much from the player. Speaking of Frontiers tho (sorry this is a long comment lol) I agree most of the physics mods for that game just let you fly over everything, but a new one just dropped from the Sonic Hacking Contest called “New Genesis” and it’s easily by far the best physics mod for this game. Like yeah obviously the game still isn’t built for momentum based gameplay, but this physics mod completely does away with boost gameplay and replaces it with really tight rolling and spindashing gameplay, and even proper badnik bouncing, and it does all of that without allowing you to just gain so much speed and launch Sonic from one side of the map to another lol. It kinda feels like vanilla Frontiers speed, but more balanced and you actually have to work for that speed more. I’d highly recommend checking it out just for funsies! Obviously isn’t a replacement for the base game’s physics at all, but it’s to the point where I’d be super happy with a Frontiers 2 if it played anything like the New Genesis mod.
@@midi_feline Going into the settings to fiddle with the controls for five minutes is that difficult for you? That's honestly a ridiculous reason to give a game flack for, it's just not that big of a deal.
Sucks that Lange, the creator of Sonic Utopia and the original Overture, was an annoying prick to the point he was essentially blacklisted from the Sonic fan game community. His obsession with Classic Sonic and controlling behavior killed Sonic Overture and burned the devs. Sucks because Lange clearly is very talented and he gets what makes Sonic special, but he burned bridges with a lot of people who worked with him.
@@Zerosaber91 I don't really care if Lange was any of that (especially since it's debated if he actually was, istaphobe accusations are very common online and they are untrue at least 90% of the time), the fact that he burned bridges with the community is what really matters.
@@quasar4780 From what I could gather, Lange said something offensive about some minorities on Discord, and someone leaked the chat on Twitter. Which prompted Alex, one of the original Overture devs, to come out and tell everything that happened with Overture's development and how Lange's actions made everything stressful for everyone. Alex leaked all of Overture's assets online, to prove he is one of the devs, and then deleted the thread and his profile. But not before someone on 4chan archived everything and added more info of their own. Apparently Alex was also targeted by Twitter because he is a controversial figure online (nsfw furry artist). It is the typical social media drama. Lange doesn't seem like a bad person, but he was very strict with what he wanted Sonic Overture to be - keep in mind that Overture wasn't Lange's creation, before he stepped in it was another fan game called Sonic From the Beginning. This 4chan leaker said Lange was kicked by SFGHQ forums because he burned bridges with people there. I also saw that he was either banned or he deleted his profile on the Sonic Retro forums around 2017. My general understanding is that the OG Sonic Overture project died after one demo because the scope of the project grew too big. Lange was too ambitious and the devs (all working for free mind you) got burned. Lange wanted to migrate the game a new engine they were making, called Teal. That's why the Granite Zone/Loam Palace Zone demo never came out. They also wanted to make a music album, art and other things. The internal documents I read even suggest they had a Sonic Overture Team anthem - for some reason. All the devs were very talented, but they were shooting too high for their first project. I think even Lake Feperd helped them (Lake would later confirm some of the things Alex said about Lange). I know some of the OG devs are back for Sonic Overture 95 and Sonic Legends (this last one uses Lange's music for Sunrise Gate). In the OG Overture Team Lange was the music composer, but he also micromanaged everything to be as perfect as possible. And him being a Classic Sonic purist made many people in the fan game community dislike him.
Still think sonic robo blast 2 is the best translation of 2d sonic design into 3d Ofc it's very limited by the doom engine with the slopes but I think that encourages much more thoughtful design cuz a lot of 3d fangames tends to over rely on slopes But there's no denying that it is in fact a limitation But that limitation breeds more creativity and Ofc it is slippery and it's default settings aren't good, most recommend just using strafe mode but what I did was to use the default mode but turn off ALL of the automated camera settings so that I can control the direction of the air dash via the direction I'm holding rather than camera direction Like it's open but not too open and still has a nice pace to the levels that makes it feel like the genesis games where there's a balance of both platforming, earned speed, layered level design that isn't just the pick a path thing that sonic team is doing with forces, frontiers, and shadow generations it seems like, and just the right amount of linearity (linear doesn't mean limited and a hallway just cuz of your forces ptsd, it can mean intentionality to the level design) Oh and also actual platforming, having to do some careful footwork to both maintain speed and manage your speed which is really fun
I actually played Robo Blast 2 recently because a different Sonic-Tuber called the game bad because he said it's impossible to control. (or at least, complained he didn't have enough) It made me wanna see if he was actually true. After playing it. He infact had a skill issue. I enjoyed the game in its literal opening minutes. I spent a lot of time in the first level alone just messin' around, but then I noticed the game had zero automation it blew my mind. A Sonic game where you actually have to control yourself in order to go fast ??? INSANE. At least to me
I know Sonic Utopia and GT, those are very good fan games. But Sonic Robo Blast 2 is a really good fan game. I'm glad I found its first public demo version in my teenage. 🙂 I played through that Sonic game at least two times. With the new sprite style and music I really enjoyed the latest version. And with a really large modding community the replayability value is increased and I'm sure this fan game will be remember by other users who didn't played before. 🙂
Maybe during the Adventure and Heroes era of Sonic, they might've done a game as In-depth as these fangames, but in today's day and age, yeah, definitely not. I do kinda agree with you when it comes to removing scripting in loops, but I feel the reason why Sega doesn't want to do this is because they're worried they'll enduce motion sickness to a portion of the playerbase, especially if the camera is always going to follow behind Sonic like in Utopia.
I could never get into SRB2 because it always made me feel disoriented and motion sick, which is weird because official Sonic games and most fan games don't make me feel sick. Might be the Doom engine, maybe? I don't usually play shooters, and I've never played Doom.
@robertwyatt3912 The devs actually plan to add linear acceleration for the next update, but it's gonna take a while since they're fixing up a lot of level design and adding momentum and loop physics, along with new zones.
I don’t know if you’ve covered this in a previous video or anything, but you should check out this fan game called Sonic Dimensions, it’s really fun and pretty cool and I’d love to see you cover it!
There are rumblings, per the SRB2 Discord server's development previews discussions, that your statement on the game not having loops might end up aging like milk come version 2.3.
@@defaultxr The impression I get from him is that he's kind of an asshole. I've heard about his controlling behavior from the Sonic Overture devs and LakeFeperd. I've listened to him talk about Sonic with a condescending tone. I've seen him opt to not apologize for saying the n-word. Stuff like that.
@@loziclec.1295 lol why would someone have to apologise for saying a word? If there's an issue between parties that's one thing but no one should have to prostrate themselves just because they said a word that makes others feel uncomfortable.
@@Edmund_Christo Maybe because making people upset might cause them to talk about you and learn about your past behavior. I didn’t know Lange effectively killed Sonic Overture until the n-word debacle, and it caused Feperd to speak out too. There’s plenty of self-serving reasons to practice common courtesy.
@Pariah6950 I know I may sound redundant, but why there wasn't Sonic World DX in this video? In an older one you even said you can play with that for the rest of the life. Although, that game is still based around the Adventure formula, so I could understand why isn't here.
Man, you've got to try the srb2 accel-momentum build. Slope jumps are a bit too broken but the gameplay flows so, so much better imo. I hate that weird acceleration curve from the vanilla game. The accel-momentum build just feels like a normal platformer. It's great.
I completely disagree, the accel-momentum build plays terribly with it's weird speed scaling on slopes and it breaks Sonic's speed thok. It changes everything SRB2 used to be about as a game and I sincerely hope the changes it makes will not make it into the 2.3 version of the game.
@@superplayerex2431nah you’re wrong. The acceleration and slopes only feel weird because you’ve gotten used to the utterly bizarre way that base-SRB2 handles them. Basically it’s a skill issue.
@@robertwyatt3912 Skill issue? I didn't say the accel-momentum build's changes make the game easier or harder. They're just not good changes because they change SRB2's already fine-as-is physics... Yes, the vanilla physics are completely fine. Which is funny, because not being used to these "utterly bizzare" physics that vanilla SRB2 currently has would probably qualify as a "skill issue" more than not enjoying them being replaced with completely new physics nobody actually asked for, but I don't throw such useless and baseless accusations around at random people because they just don't help anyone and they only antagonize those that are being argued against. Most this game needs is a momentum uncap for when you run down slopes, it doesn't need a complete re-do of the physics and all of it's gameplay just to suit the needs of fans it never appealed to before. SRB2 v2.2 already managed to get very good air control changes that made the jumps easier than they ever were before compared to previous major versions of the game, all that's left is to remove the Sonic 1 ground speed cap and it's all good.
@@robertwyatt3912 I've been a massive fan of Sonic Robo Blast 2 since at least the year of 2007, so trust me -- the physics in v2.2 are really not bad at all, and are, in fact, quite good. It's almost everything we've been asking for since the Final Demo era, complete with the fancy long-awaited slopes they implemented in v2.1 and finally set loose into the base campaign in v2.2.
7:00 I think the physics in Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers are so messed up, not just in terms of Sonic controls, but even in terms of basic platformer controls, that it shows that whoever's doing the movement programming is definitely not doing their job as well as they could be doing.
The Sonic Utopia version of the homing attack reminds me of the new Proto Sonic demo from this year's SAGE. I think that homing attack has a TON of potential. GT has a good middle ground though, at least when playing as Sonic specifically. It's a shame you didn't mention Omens. I'd love your thoughts on how it approaches level design and how the abilities mesh with it. I think that game is severely underrated. It may not be a translation of the classic mechanics, but it's a reinterpretation of the boost gameplay that I think works incredibly well. It gives more control to the player and you can make your own shortcuts in most levels. It's nice.
He played Omens and personally thought it was just kinda boring, if I remember correctly. He said he thought the game started out great and the initial levels were good, but as the game went on some levels got worse and just more boring (which isn't surprising because I believe some of them like Shadow's first stage were the first levels created despite being later in the game and didn't get changed much, but they improved at making levels over time so the first levels chronologically ended up better).
7:22 as someone whos been playing srb2 for 4 years i HEAVILY disagree with this i consider myself to be atleast somewhat good at srb2 and i still hard for me to bounce on enemies without a homing attack which can do easily in the 2d games Also i think youre forgetting the fact that base srb2 without any mods or tweaked setting does not allow you to look up or down whatsoever assuming that youre playing on keyboard and mouse (which is the intended way to play srb2 becausd at the beginning of its development, it wasn't even possible to connect a controller to a pc) you have to go into the setting to even find out you can have more camera control or use 3d models to help with depth perception I think to replicate the feeling of an enemy bounce in 3d removing the homing atack is not the answer it simply needs to be reworked, similar to sonic utopia The idea i have is to combine it with the bounce, make so that if you press the bounce button near an enemy it gives you some aim assist but not strong enough that you can avoid it if you try and sonics hitbox gets bigger the closer you get to the enemy so you still get the bounce if youre slightly off Im not a game designer so i dont know if this idea could actually work but the main point is to say that some sort of homing attack/aim assist is basically required to make enemy bounces work in 3d
With the way a lot of people react to sonic games I'm not surprised that this is how sega makes the games. People treat the games like they're the dark souls of platformers without any of the positivity that comes with that. James Stephanie Sterling made a video on sonic forces and I recall her saying that compared to generations "The highs aren't as high but also the lows aren't as low" and there were people in the comments talking about how their parents and friends could actually get through the game and how they could get through it in general. Even If I don't like forces and prefer the style of generations I think there's something to that. Maybe there needs to be some difficulty options or platforming options for people who need it. As long as their not making the whole game one way they won't be excluding either group. Another thing that makes me feel this way is that one developer interview for sonic force where they said they wanted you to be able to just "Dash around like a maniac" without a lot of the things that hinder that. You can say that applies to Forces but it especially applies to Frontiers which has gained far more praise. Instead of very linear nothing levels to boost through you now have open environments with very little to "use that speed to really interact with. Just dash around as you please with largely automated or slow puzzles which is precisely what a lot of people seem to like about the game. So if there's anything positive I can take from Sonic Forces ls that maybe these games do need some more balancing options for the players, something that goes beyond blaming issues solely on jank.
17:21 oh shoot hey! i'm the one who made many minor tweaks! i jumped when i saw my settings loaded text in the top-left show up lmfao EDIT: it's also high praise for my mod to be called essential, i did make it to try to compile a bunch of little fixes to make the game more playable for me, so i'm glad it's been that way for everyone else ;w;
I'm so glad you disapprove of cutesy official Classic Sonic stuff. Like how jarring it is to go from Origins' new childish cartoony CD opening with Amy and her fuckin stupid cards to the original badass high speed CD opening, and then back again for the endings. That said- why tf are fangame developers so terrified of automatic camera angles? SA1 implemented them for a reason. I'm a fan of more control in the player's hands but when you gotta be swinging your thumb to the right analog stick while platforming to adjust the camera that refuses to move by itself, that shit sucks ass and it creates way more challenge than there needs to be. Plus, it takes WAY longer to learn the stage layout and begin time attacking when you have to take full camera control into consideration. Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, and 06 had the best implementation- automatic camera until you touch the stick, then you can control it and look wherever and then aftrr like 10 seconds of movement it goes back to automatic
He’s not talking about the Tyson Hesse animations, most people agree those are fantastic, he’s talking about classic sonic in Generations & Forces. Also how is it jarring??? Tyson’s art style is very much inspired by the sonic CD intro, Origin’s and Mania’s cutscene art style is almost exactly the same
Heyo! I was wondering about your thoughts on the fan game Sonic Omens. I am aware of the controversy surrounding the game and understand if you wouldn’t want to talk about it. But as someone who enjoys it as a game (ignoring the background of its development) I would like to know the opinions of others in the fan game community. Based on your experience with other games in the series, I’m curious of your thoughts on it. Thank you
A 3d remade Sonic CD game done well would be AMAZING but it wouldn't be classic sonic if its not following the classic formula (hold right to get to the goal)
Honestly, while I do agree that Utopia is a great blueprint for 3D Sonic, I do have to say I am really glad that Unleashed exists. I just love the music & vibes of that game and I do have to say, calling everything official 3D Sonic terrible is not really a statement I can support. But overall, I obviously do get where you are coming from. It's just that...can we get something like that with the same amount of creativity in theming as Unleashed had?
Nice video however I disagree with some points made here. 1. The 3D level design of the official games being floating islands and linear level always felt more like a limitation. The Adventure style game 06 had a lot more open areas and invited exploration & platforming. 2. Scripted segments are a fine good way to show off cool set pieces. Now I don’t think they should be used as much as they are now but they can still be good in their own right. As well as provide a good break in the Level. (Just as long as they stay short) 3. Just wonder and I know SEGA wouldn’t do it even if pointed out. But couldn’t there just be an Easy Mode that modifies the level design? And no I it doesn’t need to be literally, but like an anti Hard Mode from Heroes that just adds elements in the level. Like added more springs, boost panels, air rings, etc… Things that build the player while in normal that stuff is just removed.
I like the way utopia handles converting sonic to 3d, but I think that instead of rebooting the series to be classic sonic 3d, I think the gameplay mechanics and design should be incorporated into the modern sonic games, the same mechanics and more open level design rather then corridors but still modern sonic just reworked in the gameplay department, but also with a major rework to the aesthetic of modern sonic cause the aesthetic we’ve had for a while has been really shit, the adventure games had a really great aesthetic for the games even if they are not as high quality graphics, it’s the difference between graphics and art direction and my bigger issue with modern sonic outside of the gameplay is that they have been choosing graphics over intresting art design especially for the characters, I think a combination of the gameplay of utopia, a reimagined aesthetic for modern sonic that keeps the core elements but just makes some changes to make him feel more cool rather then the same old model we’ve had for like 15 years, and the settings of modern sonic mixed with settings inspired by the old games but all fitting within an art style that fits them both I also desperately want them to change the classic sonic 3d model they keep using, it’s so boring and frankly ugly, I think if they took inspiration from sonic the fighters for the classic model design it would be so much better (sonic the fighters honestly has some of my favorite models in the series aesthetic wise, that’s not nostalgia either, I was born in 2006 and barely played that game, I just think the art direction in that game is better) Idk, I don’t like the idea of getting rid of modern sonic, I think he can be really good if they just took classic sonic gameplay and use modern sonic aesthetic but reworked to actually feel modern
One thing I dislike about those momentum 3D sonic fangames is that they make Sonic so fast that everything needs to be far apart, it ends up making the game world feel huge, or worse: like the player character is an ant
I honestly don't doubt that. I think Sonic can be significantly slower while still keeping the same vibe, even if we are to add momentum. Speed is more of a feeling. Like, take a look at how different racing games sell the same speed. A speed that feels unwieldily fast in one game can feel like a walk in the park in another. All due to the camera POV, angle, shakiness and etc...
The original was like a really crappy game made in early 2000s with like MS paint style art made by a child. I’m pretty sure there’s a remake coming soon tho
i really loved robo blast but for some reason the game makes me really dizzy cant play more than 3 zones or i feel im gonna throw up, its very very rare that i have this reaction to a game but i still enjoyed myself
now that i watched pariah695's video about his favourit 3D sonic games, i have a question if Sonic frontiers being open world was good decision business wise to hook in as many people as possible from general audiences, then why not do THAT and at the same time have it being a platformer with level design centering around being open world and platforming, rather than open world and platforming being disjointed , why not do it both business way and have still being great platformer
also pariah695, (i've already made a question in my first comment for this video, please don't forget to answer that one), given your openions about those 3D Sonic fan games, what about Sonic World DX, i heard that game had a lot of improvements in release 1,3 or some thing, what's your current openions on the game so far, especially in regard to character movesets ? it give a lot of attention to that
Honestly I never got why Amy is able to go fast but not roll in a ball. It feels like it should be the opposite since she's a hedgehog like sonic, but sonics whole thing is being able to go fast. It's super confusing
I need to stop watching your videos, I'm starting to question myself if I really like Sonic Team games, I'm having an existential crisis over a fucking blue hedgehog 😭😭😭
1:15 "and then someone tries," and the whole game is just Sonic flying over all of the level design with barely any platforming or gameplay in sight. Peak 3D Sonic. Also, Sonic Utopia did not create *or* popularize that style of gameplay, Green Hill Paradise came first.
My only complaint is that the classic style is too... Saturated. Specifically in a 3D setting, the colors are far to bright, and when moving so fast it kinda hurts my eyes.
I was wondering about this, especially after watching a video titled "The problem with 3D Sonic Inspired fangames," a video i vehemently disagree with but many fans love it and agree with it so, perhaps i disagree with the whole fanbase. It even had a bit to do with your video about AAA Sonic games. Sonic needs to stop trying to appeal to everyone. Sonic's main gimmick separating him from the rest is speed. Speed is not something humans generally like. It can be unruly, it can feel disorienting. Speed kills, in real life. You cant do things quickly without practice and precision, and not everybody has the patience to practice Sonic levels and get good at them. Not everybody can get passed the passive traps and the crazy speeds you can reach in levels making them feel like they cant react to anything and they have to memorize levels. You cant expect a person who likes simple games to enjoy Dark Souls or a person who doesn't like open world games to enjoy Breath of the Wild. You cant expect people who dont like high speeds or having their feet above their head to enjoy rollercoasters. There are unique quirks to Sonic that yes, will not gel with everyone. These 3D Sonic fan games have elements that someone like me will enjoy like manual loops complete with the camera following from behind that many dont enjoy for whatever reason. But i do not think compromising games to bow down to the general public is the right way to go. Theres a reason Mario is infintiely more popular than Sonic. Mario is slow and simple compared to Sonic while still having depth for skilled players. Sonic is complicated from the get-go. People who play Mario may not enjoy Sonic because Sonic demands more, and the only way you can make Sonic approachable is by compromising the design in games, like scripting or automation, which takes away the fun and depth Sonic players are used to from the classic games. And its not like those unique quirks are bad. People like me and many others enjoy classic Sonic games and plenty more enjoy these 3D sonic fangames that do away with all the scripting and shit, and you can do many MANY complex things with them that are taken away when you automate them. People, especially Sega need to get over this idea they need to make Sonic more appealing or approachable when Sonic should just have enough faith to stand on his own two feet and do his own thing for HIS audience. Not every game or recreational activity has a wide audience, Sonic is no different. Sometimes, people just need to either get good or admit when something just isn't for you.
I think a physics based 3d sonic game can appeal to casuals, if the mechanics are tutorialized well enough. Like imagine the Megaman X intro stage but for 3d sonic ? A stage that forces you to get used to the controls.
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I'll check em out. The more i play sonic likes, sonic fan games and official sonic games the more and more i realise: i have no idea what the hell i want out of sonic💀
Variety is the spice of life
Have you tried frontiers? I've realized that's what i want sonic to be
@@Fewix_ watch them change the playstyle again lmao
@@blackmegaman2lmao175 well, i'm ready for this. I've been a sonic fan since childhood, it's not the first time. Although it's a pity they probably won't return to this formula
@@Fewix_I get where your concerns might be coming from, but they said countless times that this is the new direction they want to take and even Sonic X Shadow Generations is having some sort of "open zone" area. So, I'm pretty sure they are not throwing away Frontiers' formula, at least not entirely
Agreed. I definitely feel off when I see Sonic flying around everywhere with no air drag.
7:00 OMG my thoughts exactly. I’m tired of fans saying Sonic Team is “stupid” or “incompetent”
Sonic Team should really make a silver the hedgehog game, if they really want to appeal more to immature and simple thinking people. 'Cause Silver's pretty much everything people would ever want. Do anything you want with psychic; dominate the every enemy, obstacles, levels with PK; not worry about gaps, gravity, momentum, environmental angles, or physics, 'cause who needs physics when you've got the nen riki, Saikokineshisu! With the only drawback being the level design playing tricks on you and challenging the idealistic gameplay.
I think the problem I have with the momentum-based homing attack is the same problem you have with the lack of air drag: making sonic way too mobile, forcing the level design to be unreasonably massive, which becomes a massive headache when you try to make a whole game like this.
Sonic robo blast 2 avoids this problem by having a very limited sonic, meaning he actually has to play the game.
(Also the weird acceleration in srb2 is a side effect of being on the doom engine, and the lack of slope usage is because slopes were only added very recently, so a lot of the levels aren’t really built to take advantage of it, like egg rock, which doesn’t even have slopes since the level design hasn’t changed in 15 years)
Egg Rock Zone was supposed to be remade for 2.2 with slopes in mind just like every other level, but there wasn't enough time for it to be finished.
@@superplayerex2431 yeah, but even then, most levels barely changed in the jump to 2.2
@@jackhumphries1087 That's just not true, a lot of levels did change drastically. The only two zones that didn't change that much besides Egg Rock Zone are Greenflower Zone and Techno Hill Zone. Even still, those were subject to medium overhauls, so while they look similar to their old incarnations, they've got a lot of differences if you pay attention to them.
Every other zone in the game was either remade or massively overhauled to the point that they barely (if at all) match with their older counterparts from previous versions. Arid Canyon Zone is completely different, Red Volcano Zone was massively overhauled, Castle Eggman Zone is essentially a completely new zone now and Deep Sea Zone only looks similar in a few choice rooms in the second act.
Egg Rock Zone was set to be completely remade similar to Arid Canyon Zone/Castle Eggman Zone and there were early screenshots from private in-dev 2.2 builds circulating around online showing how the new Egg Rock Zone remake looked completely different from it's old 2.0/2.1 layout, it had some new areas centered around slopes and them being mixed with reverse gravity as well as some old rooms being completely redone from scratch or visually upgraded.
Of course, the Egg Rock Zone remake wasn't finished in time, so it's old incarnation from v2.1 was essentially reused with minimal changes minus a couple of sections at the end of act 2 and the enlarged zoom tubes that came later in one of v2.2's patches.
@@superplayerex2431 k
The acceleration actually is not a problem with the DOOM Engine, rather it’s the fact SRB2 uses a different type of acceleration curve
15:33 Actually, according to the offical wiki, the SRB2 dev team has managed to implement functioning wall/ceiling running, loops, a better acceleration curve, and a new momentum system to facilitate these changes! These features are planned for future versions of the game. Real exciting stuff, but it seems like it'll be a while before an update including these comes out though.
@@theepiccrystal2154 I believe the devs themselves have come out and said that all of the old screenshots and GIFs of in-dev v2.3 are very outdated and don't represent at all how the game looks like now.
Yeah, it's mostly an issue coming from the devs themselves since they are very stingy on communication regarding how far in development v2.3 and what it will actually feature. They don't even use the official site for updates anymore and they prefer to just randomly leak screenshots on their own Discord server of all places.
what i like about robo blast 2 is that it understands the core of what sonic is
sonic isnt about speed
sonic is a platformer with a character that just so happens to have the ability to go fast
This is what I tell people! Except I don't like Robo Blast 2, unfortunately.
Yeah, Sonic is basically a more physics focused version of other speedy platformers like Megaman Zero, and X
if that's the case then why not play mario instead.
@@CrystalClear51what's the point of playing Mario why not play Kirby instead lol
2D Kirby barely counts as a platformer
While I don't disagree that SEGA wants their games to be accessible to their own detriment, I don't necessarily think that's the sole reason Sonic Team has been unwilling to make a 3D Sonic game like Utopia.
I think a lot of the ideas driving Sonic Team aren't to "recreate the classic game style" or "make classic Sonic in 3D." I think their focus has always been, since Adventure 1, to push the games further and make them new and different experiences.
Whether or not they succeed in making a good product is one thing. But I don't think anyone can claim that striving to not just do the same thing over and over again is commendable, especially in a game market that currently values just pumping out identical experiences on a yearly basis. There's no denying that a perfect 3D recreation of Genesis Sonic with lots of complex mechanical depth would be extremely fun, but Sonic Team, from all I've heard from them, won't make that game because they don't see going back and doing what they already did again as worthwhile. I think they would tell you "we did momentum-based, high speed platforming already in the 90s" and to go play those games. I think they would say the evolution of Sonic since Adventure has been "high-speed action" or "adrenaline experiences." We look at the modern games and see lack of player agency and mechanical depth. I'm sure they would see the same things and say that they did so to try and deliver a very specific experience.
I think SEGA is interested in appealing to mass markets and I think Sonic Team is interested in evolution and innovation and won't make a Utopia game because they want to make something else, something totally new. Sonic isn't one perfect, ideal game experience to them. He's just the medium through which they experiment, to varying degrees of success.
And I'm sure they realize that plenty of fan creators are making these games well enough on their own.
Ah, but you who's ideal and perfect?
SILVER! He is everything people want.
Completely different, Idealistic mindset, brashness, feelings over intelligence, better puzzle orientation, SAIKOKINESHISU!
Problem I have with this is that Sonic Frontiers is very much just another typical AAA open world game, but with Sonic. It literally just did what everyone else was and is doing. Then we have Shadow Generations, which while looking way better in every regard, is ultimately just an Expansion for a 13 year old game.
21:37 Funny you mention this, I have an HDMI to AV adapater and what I often do is put SRB2 in fullscreen, lower the resolution close to what Saturn had, load in the Jam model and play the game on an old CRT I have. It's a ton of fun playing it this way, it really does feel like I'm trying out an old 90s Sonic game on Saturn through most of it
same here actually, it's super fun
You noticed what those 3 games had in common? The had lots of platforming and manual control, something all platforms have but Sonic Team seems to be scared of.
Not really. There's plenty of platforming in Sonic games, especially in the later one's. Maybe less since it's more focused on speed, but it's definitely still there.
@@sikosonix901 there is basically no platforming in Forces, and the platforming in Frontiers is the most basic automated possible, it got better with the free dlc tho
@@realnova7429 are we playing the same games? I know there stages in Forces are short, but it's not like it doesn't exist.
@@sikosonix901 that is not platforming, that is holding a button + forward, and sometimes, adding a jump input
@@realnova7429 Just because it is minimal, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The 2D sections in Sunset Heights, Luminous Forest, and Metropolitan Highway are good examples. They're short, and require very little input. But by definition, it is still platforming.
SRB2 makes me violently motion sick. I couldn't play it if my life depended on it. I haven't met anyone else with the same problem either.
I’ve heard that there are others who have the same issue, so your not the only one for sure.
Nah I get that too. Not violently, but playing for more than a few minutes gives me a headache/headspin
camera problem, 1 million percent, if you scoured thru settings try changing to opengl rendering which has a more normal style third person camera
“No air drag” isn’t a problem if the developer accommodates or acknowledges it. Overgrowth is the best example of a fix for the “no air drag lets you skip levels” problem being solved. (Haste: broken worlds hasn’t released yet, but it looks like it employs a different solution to its character having no air drag where slope jumps do not give you too much height.)
The fix that overgrowth implements is that gravity is incredibly strong, so strong that it is one of the few games where falling feels terrifying and vertiginous. The strength of the gravity makes landings snappy and long jumps thrilling.
27:15 Oh, I'm definitely gonna try your mod, it looks really fun and well thought out without being OP (looking at you X Sonic)
OH GOD SOMEONE AGREES X SONIC IS TRASH
@@Zerosaber91The spritework for X Sonic is amazing but it's clear gameplay balancing for him flew completely out the window.
I also got a good chuckle Dark Sonic is a thing and has The Time Has Come from DMC4 as his theme
Kid Named SMS:
Hope you like it. Agreed on X Sonic, btw. Way too powerful and uncontrollable.
Yeah X Sonic seems to have been made as more of a novelty rather than something that's actually meant to be played, which is a shame because the sprites on that mod are spectacular, but actually playing it sucks.
It never even once occurred to me that maybe Sonic Team is making the games baby easy on purpose because they actually do want to primarily target a younger demographic. I’m mad that you’re definitely right 😭
Sega wants to make Sonic appeal to mainstream audiences, which means Sonic games can’t be too difficult otherwise the games become niche.
I think it's both trying to appeal to kids and also they don't want to get shit on by gaming reviewers (or fans) who don't get the game.
Sonic games require your skills, intelligence. Which is why they should be moving on to Silver. When you have the power to defy physics and logic, it becomes feelings first and intelligence second. With the drawback being reality challenging your ideals. This is what Silver is all about. Sega/sonic team should move on to silver, like when the pokemon anime series moved on to horizons. Haven't they learned the message of sonic 06 about facing the future head on and letting go of the ones you hold dear in the past?
@@crimsonzone8984 if they learned that lesson after 06 the past 18 years of this franchise would have looked VERY different 😔
@@crimsonzone8984 I was thinking the same thing! The thing about Silver is, if you study his design, you can tell that Sega was originally planning to make Silver a slow character. First of all, he wears boots, not running shoes, which is not good for running but is useful for planting one’s feet and staying firm on the ground. Also, he has those gold cuffs on his arms and legs (with no lore to them whatsoever) that I would imagine weight him down. You also have his front quills that look like a wall and cause air resistance while moving instead of the quills of Sonic/Shadow that are slick back for speed.
It would honestly be more interesting if Silver was a slow male hedgehog since we already have 2 fast male hedgehogs in the series. When you take away Silver’s superspeed, it becomes much easier to create a game that appeals to mainstream audiences. All you have to worry about is the telekinesis, which would provide a unique mechanic for distinct gameplay in Silver’s game. Those are just my thoughts tho.
Your point about Sonic Team not wanting their games to be too difficult because they want to appeal to a more general audience just makes me wish they had different levels of difficulty for their games.
Im fine with there being a casual mode for people to play around with, but it certainly can't be too hard to have a challenge mode for people who like that sort of thing.
After dealing with Milton's bs, I'm glad to see this in my feed. I haven't played much of GT, but I'll definitely check it out more.
Who?
@@frickerrific2813 The hurricane that recently hit Florida.
Most (not all) of these fan games are the reason why I’m still interested in playing Sonic games and excited about it unlike official games where I’m like “ugh more Sonic stuff by Sega just what the world needs”
SRB2 is the best 3D Sonic game ever made, or at least one of the best.
So few 3D Sonic games compare to it, it does almost everything that I want out of this franchise right. I want Sonic Team to make that, but much better.
Agreed
You can take 3D out if that first sentence and it still rings true
@@technicallyinept2120 Agreed even more
i just think its the best sonic game in general, like some other guys here
I'm not sure momentum gameplay would be so hard for general audiences if the games actually *tried* to teach it for the player. Even if you have to spoonfeed it through a tutorial that "going uphill slows you down" or whatever. Tony Hawk was basically momentum platforming, and that was popular, right?
I really like the compromise you proposed on-stream about giving the thok to a different character. I really love this move and would hate to see it go away; allegedly, it might be incompatible with changes that they are making to the physics system.
Hey pariah, I’m sure you’ve heard about this mod, but for srb2, there exists a mod that’s similar to yours called the Max control mod.
It replaces the Thok with a momentum thrust with a slight height boost that works with your speed
the peelout, which can be activated when you’re moving or not.(it even has the eight figure while your running),
The momentum boost, which is the same thing as the advance 2 style boost,
It has the drop dash and insta shield,
A WALL DASH that gives you a vertical ish jump off the wall when you activate the drop dash in front of a wall,
The air roll, which basically curls you up making it so you can use your abilities again after you get off a spring or fall off the edge
The bounce ability, where you can use it up to three times, doesnt slow you down at all, and you can use the drop dash with it for a really strong speed boost,
And hyper mcsonic, where you can fly freely in the air with 100 rings.
The best part about this mod is that it changes up not only Sonic’s moveset, but Amy’s and tails!
They have plenty of new moves you can use that you can check out by searching them up, and to top it all off, they have 3D models.
I’ve been playing with this moveset for a long while, so I’ll say getting used to all of their skills isn’t too hard, but mastering them is when the whole map changes for the better.
That point you made during sonic utopia about sonic team wanting the games to be baby easy is def true but so frustrating. I played rush and generations as a kid and i was really bad at both and i still had fun. I never made it past the first boss of either, hell i couldnt beat the second zone in any of the classic games but i still had fun
Flying over the level after accumulating a lot of speed is not a problem IMO. I really enjoy it, and new players still experience the level the more traditional way, so no experience is really harmed I feel.
22:09
"I lov' it, I lov' it, I lov' it-"
*instantly falls to the black pit*
17:08 "No homing attack of any kind"
*proceeds to grab a magnet shield* (it enables you to homing attack)
Now that there isn't going to be any SWAG until Shadow Gens, I'm really excited for more of your non-sonic reviews. I've been going through them and loving them. Like Batboy or the Crash Bandicoot series
8:00 I don’t think that’s why Sonic Team designs their games in this current way. It’s because they’ve been rushed out of the door most of the time and designed their games to be more practical for a formulaic design. Streamlining hallways make it more stable for them to design suitably paced levels without wasting resources and time.
Out of those, i've only played SRB2. Since i was very young. I agree with you on most of what you said. Also, i think some of your criticisms come from parts of the game being sorta remains of its vision pre-2.2. Like, it was going more for its own thing than the classic-in-3D thing, and i think it worked REALLY well too, but i do think they should change some stuff about the characters and level terrain to fit the new direction better.
And one small correction. It is a complete package pretty much, but it's actually not finished. They want to add 2 levels (Dark City and Grand Eggship) and change the final boss.
I absolutely agree with you on Utopia. I grew up on Genesis Sonic and my first 3D Sonic experiences were Sonic World in Sonic Jam and Christmas Nights, so Adventure wasn't quite what I expected 3D Sonic to be. Frontiers, however, is pretty close to what I expected of 3D Sonic.
I do love the thok, the fact it can instantly change your direction with a huge burst of speed that can combo with an enemy bounce makes it super fun to zoom through levels, but I wouldn't be completely destroyed if it was replaced with the instashield in a future update. That move was fun for me in S3K, I'd love to play with it in 3D and see how many obstacles I can trivialize with it.
there’s a mod that adds a sonic with just the instashield
it’s awful to use, it’s effectively just removing his jump ability altogether
I've never fucked with RB2. The controls on K&M and controller never even came close to clicking with me. Honestly I only have fun in the game with the special stages.
However, will note, as someone slightly involved in the DOOM community, RB2 is not only not beyond what the engine can do, it's pretty much running on an older fork of the engine. More modern sourceports can do some diabolical stuff.
Edit: Holy bonkers your moveset mod for sonic actually looks like so much fun and makes use actually good use of the dropdash for maybe the first time in human history.
I think Sonic Robo Blast 2 is the true 3D Sonic The Hedgehog game that everyone wants. Though they should definitely put loops in the game in my opinion to make it feel more Sonic.
There's also a Mario 64 mod, Chaotix mod and Junio Sonic mod for robo blast 2 as well I recommend it.
Can you next time (eventually) please talk about Sonic Shuffle Sonic X JP and English and maybe some obscure Sonic Titles.
Thanks for reading.
Srb2 only became good to me once I installed the Adventure Sonic mod. Vanilla characters handle like shit.
I personally don't see having very little air drag as a "problem." Its FUN and that's the point of games.
I was hoping Sonic World DX would be here! It's like a refined Heroes with fun character movesets, custom teams, momentum, ranks that don't just focus on speed, multiple missions for each zone, unlockables like extra moves, and tons of mods! It even has a solution for the air drag issue since characters fall faster and faster the longer they're in the air, and flight characters have height limits and a timer so they can't just skip everything TOO easily. It's still WIP and on a very archaic engine that doesn't support some computers (though there are ways to help fix that), but I think the devs are doing great work with what they got!
Version 2.0 could be the crowning moment for the game. Can't wait for that.
@StellaFangX So can't I! The wait's been hard, but I know they're cooking at the same heat! I just hope v2 gets a lot of new people into DX so we can have more mods!
@@speedslider3913 Yeah. More skins, more characters, more levels and maybe even mods and mechanics like in Robo Blast 2.
But it will be a steep climb before getting there.
gt has a very significant amount of air drag, it's just only really noticeable in speedrunning.
pinball+ (used for rollin rascal and other projects) uses a sorta exponential gravity curve and it feels a lot better
also srb2's thok-surfing mechanic and how that allows you to control your height makes every section a speed section if you're confident enough, which makes it absolutely solo the classic sonic design formula in my opinion
Yeah SRB2 gets a lot of flack, but it’s genuinely the closest we have ever been to a full 3D Classic Sonic game. And while I don’t think how Sonic Team has been making 3D Sonic games has no value (Sonic Generations is like one of my favorite games ever), I would absolutely love to see Sonic Team try their hand at something closer to the design philosophy of Classic Sonic! And if Sonic Team themselves actually did that, we could finally shut up all the people who are like “uh that would never work otherwise they would have done it by now” people lol.
Unfortunately, I doubt Sonic Team would ever go whole hog into this style of 3D Sonic purely because A.) The current staff were trained up by the people who made the 3D Sonic style of play that Sonic Adventure pioneered so we are now like two steps removed from Classic Sonic entirely and B.) I think Sonic Team knows a game like that probably wouldn’t sell as well as the kinda stuff they normally make with Sonic these days which sucks and is sad to say. But making a game that’s inherently more skill based means that basic normie players aren’t going to see a momentum based 3D Sonic game as this amazing fast paced video game, they’re going to see it as awkward and clunky for their one playthrough and then not pick it up again like the rest of us hardcore Sonic fans do.
I think the best shot we have at getting an official 3D Sonic game like this would be Sonic Team partnering with Evening Star to make it. I’m willing to bet Frontiers 2 or whatever will have a higher focus on momentum, purely because Kishimoto was taking mass amounts of feedback about that and genuinely seeming to take to the idea, but I still think it will not ask much from the player.
Speaking of Frontiers tho (sorry this is a long comment lol) I agree most of the physics mods for that game just let you fly over everything, but a new one just dropped from the Sonic Hacking Contest called “New Genesis” and it’s easily by far the best physics mod for this game. Like yeah obviously the game still isn’t built for momentum based gameplay, but this physics mod completely does away with boost gameplay and replaces it with really tight rolling and spindashing gameplay, and even proper badnik bouncing, and it does all of that without allowing you to just gain so much speed and launch Sonic from one side of the map to another lol. It kinda feels like vanilla Frontiers speed, but more balanced and you actually have to work for that speed more. I’d highly recommend checking it out just for funsies! Obviously isn’t a replacement for the base game’s physics at all, but it’s to the point where I’d be super happy with a Frontiers 2 if it played anything like the New Genesis mod.
SRB2 gets a lot of flack because people don't want to spend time setting up the controls
@@midi_feline Going into the settings to fiddle with the controls for five minutes is that difficult for you? That's honestly a ridiculous reason to give a game flack for, it's just not that big of a deal.
@@superplayerex2431 Didn't say it was difficult for me specifically
@@midi_feline Neither did I mean you specifically, I was saying that in general.
@@superplayerex2431 god forbid games work right out of the box
Sucks that Lange, the creator of Sonic Utopia and the original Overture, was an annoying prick to the point he was essentially blacklisted from the Sonic fan game community.
His obsession with Classic Sonic and controlling behavior killed Sonic Overture and burned the devs. Sucks because Lange clearly is very talented and he gets what makes Sonic special, but he burned bridges with a lot of people who worked with him.
I went to the comments just to point this out, but if so, let me add a couple thing. He's:
Racist
Homophobic
Islamophobic
@@Zerosaber91 I don't really care if Lange was any of that (especially since it's debated if he actually was, istaphobe accusations are very common online and they are untrue at least 90% of the time), the fact that he burned bridges with the community is what really matters.
@@Zerosaber91The only people that care about that stuff are dumb zoomers who spend too much time on reddit.
What happened exactly? Apart from his debate thread on Twitter about what Sonic should be, I couldn't find anything about his behaviour.
@@quasar4780 From what I could gather, Lange said something offensive about some minorities on Discord, and someone leaked the chat on Twitter.
Which prompted Alex, one of the original Overture devs, to come out and tell everything that happened with Overture's development and how Lange's actions made everything stressful for everyone.
Alex leaked all of Overture's assets online, to prove he is one of the devs, and then deleted the thread and his profile. But not before someone on 4chan archived everything and added more info of their own. Apparently Alex was also targeted by Twitter because he is a controversial figure online (nsfw furry artist).
It is the typical social media drama. Lange doesn't seem like a bad person, but he was very strict with what he wanted Sonic Overture to be - keep in mind that Overture wasn't Lange's creation, before he stepped in it was another fan game called Sonic From the Beginning.
This 4chan leaker said Lange was kicked by SFGHQ forums because he burned bridges with people there. I also saw that he was either banned or he deleted his profile on the Sonic Retro forums around 2017.
My general understanding is that the OG Sonic Overture project died after one demo because the scope of the project grew too big. Lange was too ambitious and the devs (all working for free mind you) got burned.
Lange wanted to migrate the game a new engine they were making, called Teal. That's why the Granite Zone/Loam Palace Zone demo never came out. They also wanted to make a music album, art and other things. The internal documents I read even suggest they had a Sonic Overture Team anthem - for some reason.
All the devs were very talented, but they were shooting too high for their first project. I think even Lake Feperd helped them (Lake would later confirm some of the things Alex said about Lange). I know some of the OG devs are back for Sonic Overture 95 and Sonic Legends (this last one uses Lange's music for Sunrise Gate).
In the OG Overture Team Lange was the music composer, but he also micromanaged everything to be as perfect as possible. And him being a Classic Sonic purist made many people in the fan game community dislike him.
I've heard so many people complain about the thok in SRB2, but it's never been for the same reasons as me until now. Thank you for that validation.
Still think sonic robo blast 2 is the best translation of 2d sonic design into 3d
Ofc it's very limited by the doom engine with the slopes but I think that encourages much more thoughtful design cuz a lot of 3d fangames tends to over rely on slopes
But there's no denying that it is in fact a limitation
But that limitation breeds more creativity
and Ofc it is slippery and it's default settings aren't good, most recommend just using strafe mode but what I did was to use the default mode but turn off ALL of the automated camera settings so that I can control the direction of the air dash via the direction I'm holding rather than camera direction
Like it's open but not too open and still has a nice pace to the levels that makes it feel like the genesis games where there's a balance of both platforming, earned speed, layered level design that isn't just the pick a path thing that sonic team is doing with forces, frontiers, and shadow generations it seems like, and just the right amount of linearity (linear doesn't mean limited and a hallway just cuz of your forces ptsd, it can mean intentionality to the level design)
Oh and also actual platforming, having to do some careful footwork to both maintain speed and manage your speed which is really fun
I actually played Robo Blast 2 recently because a different Sonic-Tuber called the game bad because he said it's impossible to control. (or at least, complained he didn't have enough)
It made me wanna see if he was actually true. After playing it.
He infact had a skill issue. I enjoyed the game in its literal opening minutes. I spent a lot of time in the first level alone just messin' around, but then I noticed the game had zero automation it blew my mind.
A Sonic game where you actually have to control yourself in order to go fast ??? INSANE. At least to me
Cute thumbnail, I like it
I am now officially converted to a thok (or thock? I actually forgor) removal supporter
Thokkers, we're being betrayed
Wdym thok is goated
I’ve done a disservice to myself not ever playing Sonic Robo Blast 2………
I gotta change that real quick!!!!
In my personal opinion, the thok is what makes SRB2 and it was troubling at first however after using it for a while I absolutely adored it.
I know Sonic Utopia and GT, those are very good fan games.
But Sonic Robo Blast 2 is a really good fan game. I'm glad I found its first public demo version in my teenage. 🙂
I played through that Sonic game at least two times. With the new sprite style and music I really enjoyed the latest version.
And with a really large modding community the replayability value is increased and I'm sure this fan game will be remember by other users who didn't played before. 🙂
Maybe during the Adventure and Heroes era of Sonic, they might've done a game as In-depth as these fangames, but in today's day and age, yeah, definitely not.
I do kinda agree with you when it comes to removing scripting in loops, but I feel the reason why Sega doesn't want to do this is because they're worried they'll enduce motion sickness to a portion of the playerbase, especially if the camera is always going to follow behind Sonic like in Utopia.
Sonic Utopia was fantastic, it’s a shame that we haven’t gotten more levels.
I could never get into SRB2 because it always made me feel disoriented and motion sick, which is weird because official Sonic games and most fan games don't make me feel sick. Might be the Doom engine, maybe? I don't usually play shooters, and I've never played Doom.
It’s probably because acceleration is multiplicative instead of additive, which causes a weird “lurch” when you build speed.
@robertwyatt3912 The devs actually plan to add linear acceleration for the next update, but it's gonna take a while since they're fixing up a lot of level design and adding momentum and loop physics, along with new zones.
BABE WAKE UP, NEW PARIAH VIDEO JUST DROPPED
I don’t know if you’ve covered this in a previous video or anything, but you should check out this fan game called Sonic Dimensions, it’s really fun and pretty cool and I’d love to see you cover it!
There are rumblings, per the SRB2 Discord server's development previews discussions, that your statement on the game not having loops might end up aging like milk come version 2.3.
It’s a good thing Utopia is free. I don’t want to give Lange money.
Out of curiosity, why is that?
@@defaultxr The impression I get from him is that he's kind of an asshole. I've heard about his controlling behavior from the Sonic Overture devs and LakeFeperd. I've listened to him talk about Sonic with a condescending tone. I've seen him opt to not apologize for saying the n-word. Stuff like that.
@@defaultxr he's notoriously racist
@@loziclec.1295 lol why would someone have to apologise for saying a word? If there's an issue between parties that's one thing but no one should have to prostrate themselves just because they said a word that makes others feel uncomfortable.
@@Edmund_Christo Maybe because making people upset might cause them to talk about you and learn about your past behavior. I didn’t know Lange effectively killed Sonic Overture until the n-word debacle, and it caused Feperd to speak out too. There’s plenty of self-serving reasons to practice common courtesy.
Pariah trying not to diss any official 3D Sonic game challenge (impossible)
@Pariah6950 I know I may sound redundant, but why there wasn't Sonic World DX in this video? In an older one you even said you can play with that for the rest of the life.
Although, that game is still based around the Adventure formula, so I could understand why isn't here.
2:24 Pariah let his real thoughts leak into his script again
We love Robo Blast 2 in this family.
Tbh I wouldn't mind having both 3d Classic Sonic and 2d Modern Sonic happening. I mean why limit ourselves when we can cover our bases?
Man, you've got to try the srb2 accel-momentum build. Slope jumps are a bit too broken but the gameplay flows so, so much better imo. I hate that weird acceleration curve from the vanilla game. The accel-momentum build just feels like a normal platformer. It's great.
I completely disagree, the accel-momentum build plays terribly with it's weird speed scaling on slopes and it breaks Sonic's speed thok. It changes everything SRB2 used to be about as a game and I sincerely hope the changes it makes will not make it into the 2.3 version of the game.
@@superplayerex2431nah you’re wrong. The acceleration and slopes only feel weird because you’ve gotten used to the utterly bizarre way that base-SRB2 handles them. Basically it’s a skill issue.
@@robertwyatt3912 Skill issue? I didn't say the accel-momentum build's changes make the game easier or harder. They're just not good changes because they change SRB2's already fine-as-is physics...
Yes, the vanilla physics are completely fine. Which is funny, because not being used to these "utterly bizzare" physics that vanilla SRB2 currently has would probably qualify as a "skill issue" more than not enjoying them being replaced with completely new physics nobody actually asked for, but I don't throw such useless and baseless accusations around at random people because they just don't help anyone and they only antagonize those that are being argued against.
Most this game needs is a momentum uncap for when you run down slopes, it doesn't need a complete re-do of the physics and all of it's gameplay just to suit the needs of fans it never appealed to before. SRB2 v2.2 already managed to get very good air control changes that made the jumps easier than they ever were before compared to previous major versions of the game, all that's left is to remove the Sonic 1 ground speed cap and it's all good.
@@superplayerex2431 They are not fine.
@@robertwyatt3912 I've been a massive fan of Sonic Robo Blast 2 since at least the year of 2007, so trust me -- the physics in v2.2 are really not bad at all, and are, in fact, quite good. It's almost everything we've been asking for since the Final Demo era, complete with the fancy long-awaited slopes they implemented in v2.1 and finally set loose into the base campaign in v2.2.
7:00
I think the physics in Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers are so messed up, not just in terms of Sonic controls, but even in terms of basic platformer controls, that it shows that whoever's doing the movement programming is definitely not doing their job as well as they could be doing.
That sounds very interesting. Do you have any examples of the bad movement code in those games?
The Sonic Utopia version of the homing attack reminds me of the new Proto Sonic demo from this year's SAGE. I think that homing attack has a TON of potential.
GT has a good middle ground though, at least when playing as Sonic specifically.
It's a shame you didn't mention Omens. I'd love your thoughts on how it approaches level design and how the abilities mesh with it. I think that game is severely underrated. It may not be a translation of the classic mechanics, but it's a reinterpretation of the boost gameplay that I think works incredibly well. It gives more control to the player and you can make your own shortcuts in most levels. It's nice.
I guess most people avoid talking about Omens because of the controversy
He played Omens and personally thought it was just kinda boring, if I remember correctly. He said he thought the game started out great and the initial levels were good, but as the game went on some levels got worse and just more boring (which isn't surprising because I believe some of them like Shadow's first stage were the first levels created despite being later in the game and didn't get changed much, but they improved at making levels over time so the first levels chronologically ended up better).
7:22 as someone whos been playing srb2 for 4 years i HEAVILY disagree with this i consider myself to be atleast somewhat good at srb2 and i still hard for me to bounce on enemies without a homing attack which can do easily in the 2d games
Also i think youre forgetting the fact that base srb2 without any mods or tweaked setting does not allow you to look up or down whatsoever assuming that youre playing on keyboard and mouse (which is the intended way to play srb2 becausd at the beginning of its development, it wasn't even possible to connect a controller to a pc) you have to go into the setting to even find out you can have more camera control or use 3d models to help with depth perception
I think to replicate the feeling of an enemy bounce in 3d removing the homing atack is not the answer it simply needs to be reworked, similar to sonic utopia
The idea i have is to combine it with the bounce, make so that if you press the bounce button near an enemy it gives you some aim assist but not strong enough that you can avoid it if you try and sonics hitbox gets bigger the closer you get to the enemy so you still get the bounce if youre slightly off
Im not a game designer so i dont know if this idea could actually work but the main point is to say that some sort of homing attack/aim assist is basically required to make enemy bounces work in 3d
the insta shield basically does exactly what you just described
28:05 Careful there, we don’t want another Sonic Heroes, or Sonic and the Secret Rings, or Sonic Lost World, or Sonic Boom.
All of these games (I think except for Sonic Boom) have the homing attack
I want another Sonic heroes 😢
With the way a lot of people react to sonic games I'm not surprised that this is how sega makes the games. People treat the games like they're the dark souls of platformers without any of the positivity that comes with that. James Stephanie Sterling made a video on sonic forces and I recall her saying that compared to generations "The highs aren't as high but also the lows aren't as low" and there were people in the comments talking about how their parents and friends could actually get through the game and how they could get through it in general. Even If I don't like forces and prefer the style of generations I think there's something to that. Maybe there needs to be some difficulty options or platforming options for people who need it. As long as their not making the whole game one way they won't be excluding either group. Another thing that makes me feel this way is that one developer interview for sonic force where they said they wanted you to be able to just "Dash around like a maniac" without a lot of the things that hinder that. You can say that applies to Forces but it especially applies to Frontiers which has gained far more praise. Instead of very linear nothing levels to boost through you now have open environments with very little to "use that speed to really interact with. Just dash around as you please with largely automated or slow puzzles which is precisely what a lot of people seem to like about the game. So if there's anything positive I can take from Sonic Forces ls that maybe these games do need some more balancing options for the players, something that goes beyond blaming issues solely on jank.
17:21 oh shoot hey! i'm the one who made many minor tweaks! i jumped when i saw my settings loaded text in the top-left show up lmfao
EDIT: it's also high praise for my mod to be called essential, i did make it to try to compile a bunch of little fixes to make the game more playable for me, so i'm glad it's been that way for everyone else ;w;
I'm so glad you disapprove of cutesy official Classic Sonic stuff. Like how jarring it is to go from Origins' new childish cartoony CD opening with Amy and her fuckin stupid cards to the original badass high speed CD opening, and then back again for the endings.
That said- why tf are fangame developers so terrified of automatic camera angles? SA1 implemented them for a reason. I'm a fan of more control in the player's hands but when you gotta be swinging your thumb to the right analog stick while platforming to adjust the camera that refuses to move by itself, that shit sucks ass and it creates way more challenge than there needs to be. Plus, it takes WAY longer to learn the stage layout and begin time attacking when you have to take full camera control into consideration. Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, and 06 had the best implementation- automatic camera until you touch the stick, then you can control it and look wherever and then aftrr like 10 seconds of movement it goes back to automatic
He’s not talking about the Tyson Hesse animations, most people agree those are fantastic, he’s talking about classic sonic in Generations & Forces. Also how is it jarring??? Tyson’s art style is very much inspired by the sonic CD intro, Origin’s and Mania’s cutscene art style is almost exactly the same
I'm not gonna lie your mod sounds like the mod max control pack just without 2 other moves
Heyo! I was wondering about your thoughts on the fan game Sonic Omens. I am aware of the controversy surrounding the game and understand if you wouldn’t want to talk about it. But as someone who enjoys it as a game (ignoring the background of its development) I would like to know the opinions of others in the fan game community. Based on your experience with other games in the series, I’m curious of your thoughts on it. Thank you
A 3d remade Sonic CD game done well would be AMAZING but it wouldn't be classic sonic if its not following the classic formula (hold right to get to the goal)
Honestly, while I do agree that Utopia is a great blueprint for 3D Sonic, I do have to say I am really glad that Unleashed exists. I just love the music & vibes of that game and I do have to say, calling everything official 3D Sonic terrible is not really a statement I can support. But overall, I obviously do get where you are coming from.
It's just that...can we get something like that with the same amount of creativity in theming as Unleashed had?
Nice video however I disagree with some points made here.
1. The 3D level design of the official games being floating islands and linear level always felt more like a limitation. The Adventure style game 06 had a lot more open areas and invited exploration & platforming.
2. Scripted segments are a fine good way to show off cool set pieces. Now I don’t think they should be used as much as they are now but they can still be good in their own right. As well as provide a good break in the Level. (Just as long as they stay short)
3. Just wonder and I know SEGA wouldn’t do it even if pointed out. But couldn’t there just be an Easy Mode that modifies the level design?
And no I it doesn’t need to be literally, but like an anti Hard Mode from Heroes that just adds elements in the level. Like added more springs, boost panels, air rings, etc…
Things that build the player while in normal that stuff is just removed.
I like the way utopia handles converting sonic to 3d, but I think that instead of rebooting the series to be classic sonic 3d, I think the gameplay mechanics and design should be incorporated into the modern sonic games, the same mechanics and more open level design rather then corridors but still modern sonic just reworked in the gameplay department, but also with a major rework to the aesthetic of modern sonic cause the aesthetic we’ve had for a while has been really shit, the adventure games had a really great aesthetic for the games even if they are not as high quality graphics, it’s the difference between graphics and art direction and my bigger issue with modern sonic outside of the gameplay is that they have been choosing graphics over intresting art design especially for the characters, I think a combination of the gameplay of utopia, a reimagined aesthetic for modern sonic that keeps the core elements but just makes some changes to make him feel more cool rather then the same old model we’ve had for like 15 years, and the settings of modern sonic mixed with settings inspired by the old games but all fitting within an art style that fits them both
I also desperately want them to change the classic sonic 3d model they keep using, it’s so boring and frankly ugly, I think if they took inspiration from sonic the fighters for the classic model design it would be so much better (sonic the fighters honestly has some of my favorite models in the series aesthetic wise, that’s not nostalgia either, I was born in 2006 and barely played that game, I just think the art direction in that game is better)
Idk, I don’t like the idea of getting rid of modern sonic, I think he can be really good if they just took classic sonic gameplay and use modern sonic aesthetic but reworked to actually feel modern
One thing I dislike about those momentum 3D sonic fangames is that they make Sonic so fast that everything needs to be far apart, it ends up making the game world feel huge, or worse: like the player character is an ant
I suspect that 2d Sonic would seem slow in comparison if you could somehow flip the camera round.
I honestly don't doubt that. I think Sonic can be significantly slower while still keeping the same vibe, even if we are to add momentum. Speed is more of a feeling.
Like, take a look at how different racing games sell the same speed. A speed that feels unwieldily fast in one game can feel like a walk in the park in another. All due to the camera POV, angle, shakiness and etc...
Pariah i know you said not to ask but what the heck happened to robo blast 1 i can't find it anywhere
The original was like a really crappy game made in early 2000s with like MS paint style art made by a child. I’m pretty sure there’s a remake coming soon tho
i really loved robo blast but for some reason the game makes me really dizzy cant play more than 3 zones or i feel im gonna throw up, its very very rare that i have this reaction to a game but i still enjoyed myself
Blast is fucking goated. Also if you check the discod there IS A MOD rhat replicates perfect loop physics so loops WILL exist SOON
thok? y'mean like, the bionicle character? big grinning white creature with laser eyes?
Sonic GT, my beloved
Not paraiah talking about sonic utopia like its new
now that i watched pariah695's video about his favourit 3D sonic games, i have a question
if Sonic frontiers being open world was good decision business wise to hook in as many people as possible from general audiences, then why not do THAT and at the same time have it being a platformer with level design centering around being open world and platforming, rather than open world and platforming being disjointed , why not do it both business way and have still being great platformer
bro gt is my favourite fan game it’s so Gas!
I streamed a bit of sonic adventure blast, plannin on checking out 2
15:30 they are being worked on, alongside momentum for 2.3 I think? Or 2.2.14
You gotta check out Sonic World DX if you love these. It's my personal favorite Sonic fanmade game.
That's one solid fan game, I think it's unnoticed because of the beyond awful game Sonic World R9 was.
@@Zerosaber91 Sonic World DX is a reform. They got a new director of the project. Looking way better nowadays.
@@archieved6749 I know,
that's why it's good
SRB2 supremacy
Utopia will one day have a full release. Currently, the devs are working on the project and that's it, we don't know anything else about the game
also pariah695, (i've already made a question in my first comment for this video, please don't forget to answer that one), given your openions about those 3D Sonic fan games, what about Sonic World DX, i heard that game had a lot of improvements in release 1,3 or some thing, what's your current openions on the game so far, especially in regard to character movesets ? it give a lot of attention to that
Something something Sonic Omens.
smth smth it sucks
Omens is garbage even if you ignore the developers being scummy
Honestly I never got why Amy is able to go fast but not roll in a ball. It feels like it should be the opposite since she's a hedgehog like sonic, but sonics whole thing is being able to go fast. It's super confusing
Sonic advance amy has a different tool for attacking.
I need to stop watching your videos, I'm starting to question myself if I really like Sonic Team games, I'm having an existential crisis over a fucking blue hedgehog 😭😭😭
Pariah can you tell us what all the inputs for your moveset tweaks things is? 😅
What? You dont like Sonic Rush 3D? Thats the best 3D fan game in recent time!
Fans doing it all once again.
You'd love sonic speed simulator lol
Is encore any good? I saw that on your last one and I found the concept intriguing
I didn't love it when I put some more time into it. Not bad, but not great.
"sonic was always good" *shows fangames*
1:15 "and then someone tries," and the whole game is just Sonic flying over all of the level design with barely any platforming or gameplay in sight. Peak 3D Sonic.
Also, Sonic Utopia did not create *or* popularize that style of gameplay, Green Hill Paradise came first.
3d Sonic fan games like utopia have been made before like Sonic Udk.
udk?
@@CocoNonesense th-cam.com/video/Nfho0U0zIko/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9dA83ykhY-4FHnWI
My link was deleted
My only complaint is that the classic style is too... Saturated. Specifically in a 3D setting, the colors are far to bright, and when moving so fast it kinda hurts my eyes.
Hey Pariah! What do you think of Sonic X Shadow Generations: Dark Beginnings?
I was wondering about this, especially after watching a video titled "The problem with 3D Sonic Inspired fangames," a video i vehemently disagree with but many fans love it and agree with it so, perhaps i disagree with the whole fanbase. It even had a bit to do with your video about AAA Sonic games.
Sonic needs to stop trying to appeal to everyone. Sonic's main gimmick separating him from the rest is speed. Speed is not something humans generally like. It can be unruly, it can feel disorienting. Speed kills, in real life. You cant do things quickly without practice and precision, and not everybody has the patience to practice Sonic levels and get good at them. Not everybody can get passed the passive traps and the crazy speeds you can reach in levels making them feel like they cant react to anything and they have to memorize levels.
You cant expect a person who likes simple games to enjoy Dark Souls or a person who doesn't like open world games to enjoy Breath of the Wild. You cant expect people who dont like high speeds or having their feet above their head to enjoy rollercoasters.
There are unique quirks to Sonic that yes, will not gel with everyone. These 3D Sonic fan games have elements that someone like me will enjoy like manual loops complete with the camera following from behind that many dont enjoy for whatever reason.
But i do not think compromising games to bow down to the general public is the right way to go. Theres a reason Mario is infintiely more popular than Sonic. Mario is slow and simple compared to Sonic while still having depth for skilled players. Sonic is complicated from the get-go. People who play Mario may not enjoy Sonic because Sonic demands more, and the only way you can make Sonic approachable is by compromising the design in games, like scripting or automation, which takes away the fun and depth Sonic players are used to from the classic games.
And its not like those unique quirks are bad. People like me and many others enjoy classic Sonic games and plenty more enjoy these 3D sonic fangames that do away with all the scripting and shit, and you can do many MANY complex things with them that are taken away when you automate them.
People, especially Sega need to get over this idea they need to make Sonic more appealing or approachable when Sonic should just have enough faith to stand on his own two feet and do his own thing for HIS audience. Not every game or recreational activity has a wide audience, Sonic is no different. Sometimes, people just need to either get good or admit when something just isn't for you.
I think a physics based 3d sonic game can appeal to casuals, if the mechanics are tutorialized well enough. Like imagine the Megaman X intro stage but for 3d sonic ? A stage that forces you to get used to the controls.
Why do you call the physics phenomenon of air resistance "Air drag" ?
Like I've heard the term air drag before. But very rarely.
Drag is the actual term. But since it only happens in the air in Sonic games, I call it air drag.
Wait really !? It's drag ? I thought that was an American thing or something I've always called it air resistance lol