UPDATE I recently rode a lot of soft sand in the Australian outback. The Sherco 500 had a steering stabiliser and I was impressed at the difference it made once adjusted correctly. If you only occasionally ride in soft sand, I suspect it would just be better to work on your riding technique. But a stabiliser could be a worthwhile investment if you mainly ride in soft sand, rocky terrain, or you are constantly banging your bars through tight trees etc. OVER 100 FREE ENDURO TRAINING VIDS English not your first language? Subtitles in 30+ languages! Basic enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3BtOVyI Intermediate enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3HSkh4r Advanced enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3oNNeqF BIKE SETUP & RIDING GEAR Bike setup playlist: bit.ly/3sBar0i Protective gear playlist: bit.ly/34BYDTI Which bike should I buy? bit.ly/3gLTJG1 Knee protection playlist bit.ly/36fR4Cw OUR OTHER PLAYLISTS Reviews of bikes & products bit.ly/3GQCVrO All about helmets bit.ly/3sJxIgy Enduro philosophy! bit.ly/33meQeV 10 ways to hop logs bit.ly/3JqlOPx The weird side of enduro! bit.ly/3Js1ai2 Read our disclaimer first before attempting any techniques: bit.ly/2U0bgCy Become a supporter! www.crosstrainingenduro.com/cross-training-support-donations.html
Rode for years as a young bloke, never had one, never needed it. Now I'm old, hit a freak rock at 20km/h, handle bars snapped to full lock and I did a super man (wish I had a cape on) over the bars. 2 months to recover. Just bought a stabilizer, if it save me once from that happening again its worth it.
High speed sand and desert riding it is a game changer. I back mine off all the way in slow stuff. When you hit that ghost rock doing 50 + your real happy your Scott's just saved your ass.
@@xpayleskill A "ghost rock" is a term for a hidden rock that is mostly buried in sand that you cannot see. So it is a surprise that yanks your bars. The stabilizer prevent them from going sideways. Mostly a desert thing when going across long sections of sand like a samd wash.
They are not for "twitchy steering" they are for impacts like if you clip a tree with your bar, it prevents that full lock snap and let's you bounce off and keep going. Think tank slappers. So if you hit a rock that would deflect your wheel to fill lock, it prevents it allowing you to ride through it. I don't have one, I prefer the dramatic crash that follows so my friends can post their new content....
I never had one in my first 8 years of riding. Bought a used bike that coincidentally had one and I gotta say, I don't miss getting tank slappers in 5th gear at all.
@@ronaldbronson1285 I won't another bike without one! To many tree taps that put me on the ground, 4 shoulder surgeries I keep saying I'm getting one. Soon as I'm done healing from this surgery, I'm getting one..
A properly set up Scott's stabilizer is a complete game changer... most crank down the low speed knob and fuss with it too much. I prefer a little more high speed and loose on the low speed and then DONT TOUCH IT! I have raced for over 35 years from nasty enduros, desert and Baja and it has saved my ass more times than I can count. An improperly set up one or one that has only 1 dampening circuit are usless. Btw my best Baja 500 finish was 8th in the pro over 30 class on a ex team Honda XR650R that showed top speed of 113mph on the gps after the race. I won't race with out my Scott's period
Got one on my xtrainer but put it on cause my wrists are trashed. I don't use the adjustment knob and leave it low which helps the sudden impacts especially down long rocky trails. I never realized how much stress riding puts on wrists until the arthritis kicked in. Don't use mine to ride as I don't need it but my wrists greatly appreciates it.
I have had a scotts dampers on my KTM 525exc and 380exc and then swapped them over onto many other of my bikes, in my 45 years of riding I absolutely love them, for me I find I don't have to grip the bars as tightly thus lessening arm pump due to damping from center only, and can instantly change settings for deep sandy sections on the fly for the sand that tries to grab your front wheel and spit you off, works well in rocky sections too, and is easily turned back to my favorite setting in seconds. I think of it like suspension for the steering .
I use a Precision Racing Parabolic damper on my 300, it’s small, light and completely unobtrusive until you need it on the odd rock or rut. Other than the cost and installation I see absolutely no negatives and would recommend riders to use them to reduce the risk of high speed crashes.
20 years experience with dampers _%100 agree with you, I never use the damper trailriding, Dualsporting and higher speed riding on flat terrain somehow it seems to have a great effect on My XR400, and yes you really get used to the change in ,perceived handling, and tend to miss the Golden Orb under your bars, And like you say, no interest in adding needless weight to the 300XCW !
Ran Scott's SD's on all my CR250's from 2001 through 2008 as an Intermediate MX rider. Got rid of those tank slappers on the fast straights and deflections from rocks or braking bumps in the berms and fast corners. Game changer. When finally switching to a 2018 KTM 250 TPI EXC I initially battled, but I switched out the twitchy stock Kenda's for Michelin's and my unease disappeared. Happily been riding for nearly 3 years without a SD in gnarly terrain and fast forest sections in South Africa
Put 300hrs on my first bike in 1yr without a damper. My new bike came with a damper and I was too lazy to remove it. All I can say is it made the bike feel like a luxury cruiser through the nasty fast chop here in desert Arizona. I have 200hrs on it and haven’t notice a single drawback. I’m mostly into very technical and aggressive hard enduro.
I never use to use one but one came on my new bike, and I absolutely love it, I run just lightly for slow technical trails, but for fast sand and rutted roads when going at high speeds of 110 to 150 I'll have it on hard. 100% recommend. Even the eBay $100 Scott's nock off is great as well
I love my WER " work Enduro rider" damper it's great on my bike. And not been in the usual position under the handle bars means it leave more room for phone mounts and gps. My bike used to go into tank slapper above 130 on road sections (closed circuit of course).
Informative video, thanks. Many of our riders here in the tight woods of Eastern PA prefer them for when your bars clip trees. The bars are not ripped out of your hands as easily and your not ping ponged down the trail. When I review my riding films, several times I am grazing trees with the bars.
Cheers Peter. I love my Steg Pegz as I get to ride longer before my upper body fails. But I fully understand when others hate them. And in fact I always recommend younger riders try other alternatives first...
I've ridden with a stabilizer for years. At first I had it cranked up about in the middle of the settings. I even had flex bars. Like you said, I just learned to let the bike do it's thing underneath me and I've had the damper on the lowest setting to where it hardly does anything for about two years now. I think I'll just remove it and see if I miss it. I've had my flex bars off all season and I don't miss them! I have my suspension and riding position set up very well now so I think stabilizer and even flex bars aren't necessary.
I rode without my dampener while i sent it in to get serviced and I can tell a difference in how long I can ride/my soreness the following day riding creek beds and big open rock gardens. When I'm in tighter trails having the stabilizer can be a little intrusive as it will slow down the handlebars if you swifty make input but my bike came with a steering stabilizer and I don't see myself getting rid of it.
I have a Scott damper on my beta 300. I don’t think it hurts at all and like you said, at high speeds when you start tank slapping I’ll bet it’s wonderful. For me, I’m a low speed tractor rider and it doesn’t help at all. In fact if I weren’t so damn lazy I’d pull it off. But I am, so it stays right where it is.
You hit on most of the reasons to get one: 2T, fast terrain and sand. Doing 40+ across the sand or whoops on a 2T is way, way more controlled with a damper in place. I've also come to be in the habit of adjusting the force based on the day. If I'm on tight stuff, I dial it out and basically turn it off. On a sandy moto track this weekend I found myself cranking it in to help busting across the ruts.
I had a Scotts damper on my RM250 and it made a huge difference. I didn't even feel it since it was hard to move the bars so fast that it would kick in. I had it set to only absorb high speed hits. It was definitely noticeable on rocky stuff. I tried the poor man's trick but it didn't help. Another thing to adjust is the rebound on the forks. Slowing it down helps with the kick but too much and the forks will pack and not rebound all the way. I kept it when the RM got sold, thinking I'd put it on the Beta but I have yet to do it since I haven't really seen the need yet. So I think it really depends on the bike. For now I have an expensive paper weight sitting in my cabinet!
@@crosstrainingenduro For sure. It only takes once getting the bars ripped out of your hands by hitting a hard to see baby head at speed. It's the high speed dampening that can save one' arse🤕
I've been battling wrist issues for the past 5-7 years, riding dirt for 2, so I'm looking for every little bit of help I can get. I got the Scotts with BRP Mounts (running blue inserts). Mostly got the Scotts for the sweep/deflection stabilizing which has helped quite a bit especially in the rocky stuff! I have been turning down the steering damping bit by bit and focusing on the less death grip this year but I'm not upset with my purchase. My problem isn't arm-pump per se (unless we're about 3 hours into strictly nasty stuff - looking at you Tim R if you're reading this =) ) but aches and numbness in my knuckles and fingers as well as aches around my wrist. Probably arthritis kicking in.
Many of us have all sorts of upper body issues when dirt riding, Sal. And often one thing will work for some riders but not others. If it helps, you might find it useful watching our vid about arm pump as quite a few of those tips can help take pressure off the upper body.
@@crosstrainingenduro Oh yeah I forgot about that one! I'll have to revisit it... Probably easier than my plan of replacing my arms and legs with biomechanical prosthetics.
I purchased my bike with a Scott's damper installed as an over bar mount and I've come to like it. I've found it nice to have when you're in deep sand and it does make some impact in rocks or a surprise off center hit on the front wheel. That being said I keep my low speed dampening settings very low and I dont really notice a whole heck of a lot of difference anywhere else. When I added a fatty front and taller trail oriented bars it made 10x more impact on control/stability. I plan to keep using my Scott's but I dont think I would ever buy one on my own dime.
steering damper gives you options not a bad thing. if price is a issue well you are riding a expensive toy. yes it works at what it does in situations if you don't want it turn it off. options are good mmkayyyy
My old bike (KTM 690) came with one. I used it at first but soon stopped turning it on. I ride mostly Southern California desert and forest singletrack. My current bike (500 exc-f) has no damper and I don’t miss it.
I never saw the need for a steering damper until racing a National Hare and Hound. For desert racing (unexpected terrain, in and out of sandy washes, hidden rocks) it seems like a big help
The general consenus seems to be you really need them to do desert racing, Eden. Which makes sense... most dirt bikes are designed around working well at low to moderate speeds for the most part, not tapped out in top gear.
Not needed but when adjusted correctly it saved me on big hit deflection 2-3 times. On my xcw450 i felt it changed the steering feel too much and removed it but on my te150i i forget it is there and calmed the steering down just a bit. I rode my te150i one year without it and it was fine but had it laying around after selling my 450. Bottom line not needed but can help some times.
I bought an 03 KTM 450 EXC and it came with a Scotts steering damper. I did some research and people highly recommended them for my bike back then because the steering had really bad head shake. I just had my suspension upgraded so I might give this bike a shot with the damper switched off.
For an "adventure" bike with a bunch of gear(weight) coming on and off the back of the bike, stabilizers can help. I totally agree that they don't work unless the rest of the suspension is working properly.
65yrs old here. Never had one been riding and racing since 1973. Being as I am old enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel and life in prison isnt a deterrent anymore I think I will keep going without😁
I do feel a steering stablizer are a must for me in the desert . High speed sand washes and hidden rocks it could be the difference of a swap or tank slaps. Problem with most people set it to stiff you shouldn't even notice it if set up properly. Dont let people play with nobs they cant help themselves. Dont touch my shit . Lol good vid but it's personal preference and wallet capabilty not cheap
The old school steering tension method has always served me well, on all my enduro bikes for 40 yrs.. From sl100s to yz450s. If your dessert racing for hours straight and feel it'll give you an edge, great. I'd rather have stegz pegz for my money.
I have a Scott's on my TE300, and a GPR on my 250 XC-W. I also ride with no damper on my 250XC and old XR250R. Ride a lot of rocks and roots in CO, and desert stuff as well, especially in UT. Are the dampers noticeable? I think they help when I hit ghost rocks and roots. But, I've hit those on the non-dampened bikes as well, and survived. I don't run either damper with much dampening. I think their biggest contribution is preventing the bars from "slapping" at speed. As for overall handling, they affect things very little, unless you crank the damping WAY up. I never do that. By the way, I received both dampers with bikes, so didn't technically "pay" for either one. Nor would I buy one outright, not for the price they sell for. So, probably not worth the money, in my opinion.
Interesting! A lot of experienced riders are saying similar things to you... although anyone into fast desert riding saying they love steering dampers.
Learned to ride on an 08 200xc with no stabilizer. My second bike was an 08 530 excr, the 530 had a stabilizer because the previous owner rode in sand dunes a lot. I never noticed the difference since it was a much bigger bike to begin with. My current 300xc doesn’t have one and I don’t think I’d ever spend the money on that type of upgrade for any bike I’ll own. I ride my 21 890 adventure r more than anything these days so I may be kinda spoiled. 😎
I have a Fastway. I have it set in a way where I don't think I feel it working except for when I get things wrong (usually more often then not) and have a hard hit to the front where it wants to rip the bars out of your hands. I'm hoping it will protect my brittle wrists (57 years old).
Agree completely - I rode a friends badly setup KTM500 in deep wooped sand (Larbert MX Braidwood) , 3-4 gear stuff. And about once a lap I felt dampener saved my arse. But I softened it up with more sag, clickers and turned off the dampener and it was 100 percent better bike. To stop a bike deflecting off things (Trail riding or Enduro) . Always start by going soft, (take all/most of the fork compression clickers off) set the bike up so it uses "90%" of its travel. Then do the same at the back until they feel balanced. Suspension tuners don't help, they put heaver springs in bikes because the rider weights 100kg. But they forget 80% of riders are crap and benefit from a softer complaint setup. KTM PDS is really sensitive to spring rate. It should (be banned - sorry I didnt really mean that) have almost no spring preload, you need the right spring for your weight, conditions (yes you will buy 3 springs before you find the right one) , with almost no spring preload and you want heaps of rider sag - like 120mm. Leave the spring collar a little loose and adjust as you ride (lean bike over on kick stand , rear wheel in the air and turn the spring - threaded collar should stick to spring). If the bike steers slow - put a extra turn on the preload to lift the arse and steepen the steering head and opposite if too fast. You adjust for given track/section/ride speed. Dirt bike suspension takes about 6-12 months to break in fully. In that time, take the compression clickers off mostly. As the ride plushness improves, slowly experiment with bringing them back on. Don't be talked into new fork/shock seals unless they are pissing oil, new seals give you stiction for months. Enduro pro's carry the same set of scratched, well broken in, KYB SSS forks from one bike to the next for years and years. Anyway that's my two cents worth.
Good point on the suspension, James! My suspension tuner didn't ramp up my springs on the Beta Xtrainer despite my weight... just messed with the valving. What a difference! You don't always need stiffer springs.
I used Scott’s stabilizer for 4 years and it was more headaches than benefits. I no longer use the stabilization and find it much more enjoyable and much less effort to ride. I find the dampener just makes you exhausted sooner especially in hard enduro ST
I have motoz rallz tires on my Ktm 890 adv r. It becomes dangerously twitching in triple digit mph. I added a Scots damper. It helps just a little bit.
I have a 15 Ktm 300 XC. I raced hair scrambles with it for a few years and once I would get up into 5th gear I got the tank slapping bars at 55 mph and was lucky to come out of it without a trip to the hospital. After that race I installed one and never had the problem again. I only race the 300 now in hard enduro and don’t really need it but since it’s on there and I’m use to it I’ve just backed the amount of damping down so it’s not a big deal. I race my 350 XC in hair scrambles now and didn’t ever need damping on it. So yes it helped out big time at top end speeds on my 300 but didn’t see the need on my 350.
It seems almost all desert racers fit them, Jon. And it stands to reason. Dirt bikes are designed to mostly handle slow to moderate speeds, not flat out in top gear. Especially two strokes! And those earlier KTMs were known to be very skittish too.
@@crosstrainingenduro yeah I had heard that the earlier models did have issues with that at top speed as well. So I think it definitely comes down to the age of your bike and model of bike and how fast you’re riding it . Does everyone need them ?? Absolutely not !!! But some people yes 😉
On my conventional fork 99 KTM 200 I never felt like I needed one. Those forks were that good. On my 2001 400 EXC it was completely transformed by a GPR stabilizer. A lot of this has to do with how good your suspension is from the get-go.
@@crosstrainingenduro the old conventional forks on the Euro brands in the late 90s were absolutely magic. They needed no help. I think the stabilizers were transformative for the early inverted fork bikes. I've been debating getting one for my 2012 KTM 150 but I have no need at all on my 2008 Husqvarna. I think it's just going to be a matter of more proper setup on my KTM. I Enjoy your channel BTW.
This is a phenomenonal channel, but on this topic, I feel that someone has misinformed the presenter as to the operation of a steering damper. Too many people get focused on the wise tail that their for curring head shake. This true of some old style single circuit units that look like a little hydraulic cylinder that derived from road bike duties. That is a different animal to modern offroad specific units. There's two circuits in these units, and everybody gets confused as to what they do because of their name. There's a low speed "circuit" & a high speed "circuit," and they operate most effectively at riding speeds opposite to their name. The high speed circuit you want active always, it does not effectively correct headshake or twitchyness unless things have gotten serious. The way to understand it's job is that it arrests fast movements of the handle bars lock to lock. Not your inputs, faster movements than a rider can generate. For example clipping the side of an unseen rock or rut that wants to rip the bars instantly to the locks one way or the other. It's like a bionic arm to catch those unseen widow makers and give the bike and rider a better chance of only deflecting and continuing forward instead of and instantaneous full lock snap and over the handle bars flight. So in low speed riding like single track you actually want to increase your high speed dampening. At high speed ie desert racing, that's when you want to arrest headshake, nervous front end that's done with the low speed control. Because it's to control low speed bar moments which are with in the speed range of that of a riders input. That is why you will feel the low speed as a resistance to your inputs also. At high speed you will tend to run significant low speed dampening but maybe back off on your high speed a little as it may cross over with your low speed settings at high motorcycle speeds.
I bought a 2008 wr250r with $1,000 worth of upgrades including a steering stabilizer. I wasn't impressed. I didn't think any of those upgrades were necessary. Later on I bought a 2017 wr250r completely stock and I loved it!
I bought a bike once that was blinged to the max like that, Brian. I sold it all off and made about $1500. Then eventually sold the bike for the same price... bargain!
I had terrible arm pump on my Ktm , put a Scott’s on no more arm pump.recently bought new Yamaha wr250f no arm ,no stabilizer,no arm pump and the best stock suspension I’ve ever rode go figure,lol
I do a lot of desert racing out here in California USA, and riding an Enduro bike with poor geometry can be a struggle at speed. I find that on my Husky TE250, the steering stabilizer is a necessity in most cases for the desert, but when I take the occasional trip to the woods I turn it down almost to being off. On my old Honda motocrosser however, a steering stabilizer is needed just to go in a straight line haha. It corners well, but if you want to be comfy cruising above 40 then you need to upgrade the existing damper (under the number plate for my bike 2012 CRF250r). Anyways, for the riding that I see in these videos a steering damper would be going, and maybe even a hindrance, but if you ever ride out in the desert, it can add a level of security and safety that is very beneficial.
I've seen quite a few guys say this, Jake. Certain older models can really benefit which makes sense. The handling on some of those bikes is probably downright evil compared to a modern bike lol.
No pro level enduro riders have them. But every single dakar/rally bike has them. So maybe trying that type of riding and seeing if it feels Different would be interesting? I have 2 ktm 690s. 1 with and 1 without damper. I cannot honestly tell if there is a difference because unfortunately i havent ridden both bikes in the same conditions. But i did feel like in namibia riding deep desert sand at 130kmh it kept the natural sweeping left and right motion of the handlebars a little in check. This might be just in my head though haha. I do disagree on the chinese clone opinion because they work pretty well exactly the same. Only the scotts function to have a zero resistance back to center isnt on the chinese ones. Other than that. By the time you go through 10 chinese ones (to make up the price diff) you probably wont even be riding bikes anymore.
My RM250 used to have a frightening headshake at speed. I hardly ever notice it now, that may be due to experience or because I switched to a fatty tyre at some point
Old RM's and CR's steer really well, because they have steep steering head angles, but they head shake on dirt track at 100kmh . Sag the back or slide the forks down 5mm in the triple clamps. The fatty front (90/100/21) tire is lifting the front 5-10mm and slowing the steering down. Everything is a compromise - you cant have it all.
I had an Australian made stabiliser, was ok for a while but started dumping all its oil out, went close to my front brake disc which was worrying. Rang up the company but they went bust for some reason 🤔 I may as well of took out $800 cash and put it straight into landfill. Best thing to do is hit the gym a bit, doesn’t even have to be all that often or intense, or just do a bit at home. Sometimes it might help sometimes it might hinder, even at high speed you may need to make a super quick steering input which would be slowed by a stabiliser.
Bummer about the oil leak, Patrick. I do know with the better ones you can get them serviced.... no idea how much that costs. You definitely get a wide range of opinions about whether they are worthwhile or not!
Hi, tanks for another great video! I have never tested a steering damper, and never considered buying one. But this video got me thinking. Last year I injured my right shoulder, and this year I got the same injure in my left shoulder. Both injuries came from a fast twitch on the handlebar when I was tired. I didn't even crash. Of course very hard to say, but do you think a steering damper could have prevented this?
Very hard to say, Erik. Some riders claim they'll prevent that sort of thing happening. But then we always wonder if it's more about better riding technique? A very important aspect of safety is conserving your energy to avoid mistakes like that too.
Almost definitely. It's a hydraulic damper on bar rotation, which would have slowed the rotation speed to something tolerable unless the force was so high it blew seals in the damper. Your injury was caused by an undamped bar moving while you tried to hold on. But you probably also shouldn't be hanging on that hard, it should have knocked the bars out of your hands, not injured your shoulder 😆
yes it would have made a difference that what they do. would you still have crashed maybe but yes they definitely work at slowing the twitch on the handlebar. i have on my ktm and wouldn't ride without personally i like the little rise they give and you can tighten them for street riding or super rocky stuff.
Been riding off-road and supermoto all my life and never felt the need for a steering stabilizer, the price of them is crazy and would be better spent on setting up your suspension
I own a 2015 KTM 200 exc and am an experienced rider. When I first got the bike anything out of 3rd gear it would get the head shakes big time (I'm talking full lock each way at 60 kmph +) I tried to tighten the head stem bearing which made little to no difference. So about a year ago I decided to bite the bullet and purchase an above bar MSC Moto steering dampener. It took me about 10 hrs of seat time to figure out a good all round setting. Since getting one the steering has been chalk and cheese at high speeds and haven't had head shakes since. The only draw back I have found is that if I'm doing moderate speed riding with lots of hard turning of the bars quickly I get fatigued much faster. And yes I have noticed they do stop deflection in very Rockey sections. I have also recently had my suspension tuned for my riding ability weight and discipline and did have to adjust the damper a couple of clicks. So in my opinion for my situation it was well worth the money in reducing my risk of having a potentialy life threatening crash. Whilst I would recommend trying one out I would recommend it to everyone.
Completely anecdotal, but I do think my stabilizer has saved me from a couple crashes. I’ve never installed one onmy own, just bought a bike with one. I probably wouldn’t install one if I bought a bike that didn’t have one already.
Spot on Video, I had a stroke, lost balance and didn't ride much for 2 years, I was out of riding shape, Daughter and I were riding an out and back rocky road, got in 3 of 8 miles in and discovered arm pump is for REAL. Daughter had a bike with a scott's me, nothing, we switched bikes and I finished that 16 mikes with less pain. My very out of shape arms, the Scotts ROCKed. I do a ride in Idaho in the usa called the T1, long days, I'd like to think the scott's helps fatuge, but have no data to back that up. Scott's, great bling to blind your buddies when they forget sunglasses!!!!!!!!!!!! I don'y buy new bikes, so I try to get a Scott's on a 2nd hand bike! ( I don't tell my buddies I got the scotts already on a bike, lol) Question, with practice, can you throw a Chinesium Scott's 50m? I'm probably a 35m guy, lol. I do think I'd not huck my legit one. Thanks for all your videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great to hear your back riding after the stroke, Brad! A mate of mine had a brain injury from a nasty dirt riding accident and it took a few years to regain his balance enough to ride again... but it never quite came back to the same level in his case.
I find that after two to four hours of single track having the crutches such as damper ,auto clutch and pivot pegs add up to a ride to remember rather than a ride to forget .Lots of little bits of help can compensate for rubbish skills and poor level of fitness.
Great video as usual. I have a Steering damper on my Husaber FE 390 ans can not tell any benefit. It is there, but the level of my ride is still the same kkkkk
Have been on a couple super sports with them...I guess it dumbs down the twitching a bit but meh. I'm too busy riding to ever get a sponsorship to pay for all the fancy things.
I would urge anyone interested in a damper to test one by actually REMOVING the damper and riding the same bike back-to-back with the damper present and absent. With the dampers I am familiar with, you can't "turn them off" in that they always exert an effect on hard hits no matter what the settings. You can only really appreciate the affects of a damper by riding a bike with a damper, and then riding the same bike again with the damper removed.
I take them off even my street bikes. (Strangely, the MotoGp guys have em....) Never been an issue. Even on an RC8R with the front wheel coming off the ground at triple digit speeds. My 300XC geared for the street (supermoto) is dead stable.
its weird to start riding with 1 & then to go & ride without 1 is weird. its all what you get used to. i loved my w.e.r. stabilizer, but it did not make me graham jarvis, it did help me move from a C-class lapper to a stay on the same C-class lap kind of muppet.
Some Chinese products are great - my phone, laptop ...err, sweet and sour chicken balls... for example - I tried a direct-from-China eBay steering damper on my Daytona 675. And it worked great. For 1 track day. When the bike got cold I'm guessing the differential shrinkage between the alloys in the chassis and the bushings meant the item literally fell to pieces while still fitted. I couldn't stomach the price of a "proper" damper but ask me now if I'm willing to pay! ...The answer is STILL "no way!", so I just don't run one :D
Hopefully the Chinese made dampers would never be able to seize up and prevent steering, Peter? I'm trying to avoid Chinese stuff where possible, it's tough when it comes to electronics!
You also didn't mention the potential false sense of security the stabilizer gives. I know a lot of guys that crash more in the rocks with these fitted as they get lazy after convincing themselves that the device will do all the work for them. I use the poor man's stabilizer described here. Never needed more.
Good point. That sounds a bit like the body armour issue. Some guys buy that bulky body armour then ride harder and crash more because they feel safer...
I hated the steering damper and the pivot pegs when i had it. I'm not even a good rider and I found those 2 things to be unnecessary. They actually affected my riding cos it felt unnatural. It's just my opinion though and I'm not criticising anyone who finds those things helpful.
'overrated bling or must-have accessory' Two sides of the same coin in my garage..But yeah, most if these 'improvements' = by and large, between the ears.
I see things like guys raving about the incredible impact that a fork brace had on their DR650 and always think "I'd love to see proper scientific test done to analyse that". I reckon most of the the time it will be pure placebo effect lol.
For desert racing? Of course he would Jimmy. Most desert racers do. As clearly stated in the vid "If you are desert racing, or simply tapped out in top gear a lot, it's probably a great idea."
you say it's 80% the rider and 20% the machine, but that's not my experience really. A lot of the times on dirt trails I feel it's my fine enduro bike --not me-- that does most of the work and keeps me up beyond what I thought I was capable of. Proof is that not for a minute I think I'd be able to even consider the same feats on my road bike. so is this 80/20 a myth, or am I a better rider I give myself credit for 😂
It's definitely only a very general concept and it's impossible to put numbers on this unless you mapped out the criteria in great detail. E.g. If you compare a Honda Goldwing with an enduro bike on single tracks, it will be 95% the bike. 😂 I think the 80/20 is just a general principle in some situations, such as will this knobby make me a better rider? Will this brand new model make me ride much better than my five year old dirt bike? Will spending thousands on Ohlins suspension dramatically improve my riding?
Just more crap added to bikes we don't need. Just like abs braking and all the other electronic aided stuff on most newer bikes, If you can't ride these bikes without these things perhaps your riding outside of your skill level... Personally I think alot of these things take the fun and experience out of motorcycling and makes the bikes over complicated and less reliable in places where you need it.
IMHO the damper is totally useless, better to spend this money on gasoline, tires, bike maintenance. About fancy hardware and bikes Funny thing, I'm hearing regularly something like "If you grew out of 250cc - try 450cc+". At this moment in my mind appears "What does it mean grew out?. Have you won any championship or so?"
The obsession with 450cc dirt bikes is a source of amusement in my riding group. In some cases they can work well, but most of the time they are just bought by guys unable to use all that power and they'll just ride slower as a result. 😂
rubbish! steering dampers come with different mounts and handlebars -if properly installed they dont change any dimensions of the bike. and they do make a difference
Get your facts right before commenting. The video clearly stated that only some types of steering dampers might raise the height of the handlebars. And yes they do make a difference for some riders. But read through the comments and you will see others riders feel they don't make a differnce.
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UPDATE I recently rode a lot of soft sand in the Australian outback. The Sherco 500 had a steering stabiliser and I was impressed at the difference it made once adjusted correctly. If you only occasionally ride in soft sand, I suspect it would just be better to work on your riding technique. But a stabiliser could be a worthwhile investment if you mainly ride in soft sand, rocky terrain, or you are constantly banging your bars through tight trees etc.
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Rode for years as a young bloke, never had one, never needed it. Now I'm old, hit a freak rock at 20km/h, handle bars snapped to full lock and I did a super man (wish I had a cape on) over the bars. 2 months to recover. Just bought a stabilizer, if it save me once from that happening again its worth it.
High speed sand and desert riding it is a game changer. I back mine off all the way in slow stuff. When you hit that ghost rock doing 50 + your real happy your Scott's just saved your ass.
did you tried to hit that rocks without the damper? Happens to me many time and the bike continue his way
@@xpayleskill A "ghost rock" is a term for a hidden rock that is mostly buried in sand that you cannot see. So it is a surprise that yanks your bars. The stabilizer prevent them from going sideways. Mostly a desert thing when going across long sections of sand like a samd wash.
This is 100% the case. Embedded rocks can kill at high speeds
They are not for "twitchy steering" they are for impacts like if you clip a tree with your bar, it prevents that full lock snap and let's you bounce off and keep going. Think tank slappers. So if you hit a rock that would deflect your wheel to fill lock, it prevents it allowing you to ride through it. I don't have one, I prefer the dramatic crash that follows so my friends can post their new content....
I never had one in my first 8 years of riding. Bought a used bike that coincidentally had one and I gotta say, I don't miss getting tank slappers in 5th gear at all.
@@ronaldbronson1285 I won't another bike without one! To many tree taps that put me on the ground, 4 shoulder surgeries I keep saying I'm getting one. Soon as I'm done healing from this surgery, I'm getting one..
@Tepco
What he said 👏
Is it a Showa dampener by chance?
A properly set up Scott's stabilizer is a complete game changer... most crank down the low speed knob and fuss with it too much. I prefer a little more high speed and loose on the low speed and then DONT TOUCH IT! I have raced for over 35 years from nasty enduros, desert and Baja and it has saved my ass more times than I can count. An improperly set up one or one that has only 1 dampening circuit are usless. Btw my best Baja 500 finish was 8th in the pro over 30 class on a ex team Honda XR650R that showed top speed of 113mph on the gps after the race. I won't race with out my Scott's period
Got one on my xtrainer but put it on cause my wrists are trashed. I don't use the adjustment knob and leave it low which helps the sudden impacts especially down long rocky trails. I never realized how much stress riding puts on wrists until the arthritis kicked in. Don't use mine to ride as I don't need it but my wrists greatly appreciates it.
Just turn the damper down and have the high speed to dampen unsuspecting rocks and roots. Think of it as lateral suspension
I have had a scotts dampers on my KTM 525exc and 380exc and then swapped them over onto many other of my bikes, in my 45 years of riding I absolutely love them, for me I find I don't have to grip the bars as tightly thus lessening arm pump due to damping from center only, and can instantly change settings for deep sandy sections on the fly for the sand that tries to grab your front wheel and spit you off, works well in rocky sections too, and is easily turned back to my favorite setting in seconds. I think of it like suspension for the steering .
I use a Precision Racing Parabolic damper on my 300, it’s small, light and completely unobtrusive until you need it on the odd rock or rut. Other than the cost and installation I see absolutely no negatives and would recommend riders to use them to reduce the risk of high speed crashes.
20 years experience with dampers _%100 agree with you, I never use the damper trailriding, Dualsporting and higher speed riding on flat terrain somehow it seems to have a great effect on My XR400, and yes you really get used to the change in ,perceived handling, and tend to miss the Golden Orb under your bars, And like you say, no interest in adding needless weight to the 300XCW !
Ran Scott's SD's on all my CR250's from 2001 through 2008 as an Intermediate MX rider. Got rid of those tank slappers on the fast straights and deflections from rocks or braking bumps in the berms and fast corners. Game changer. When finally switching to a 2018 KTM 250 TPI EXC I initially battled, but I switched out the twitchy stock Kenda's for Michelin's and my unease disappeared. Happily been riding for nearly 3 years without a SD in gnarly terrain and fast forest sections in South Africa
Put 300hrs on my first bike in 1yr without a damper. My new bike came with a damper and I was too lazy to remove it. All I can say is it made the bike feel like a luxury cruiser through the nasty fast chop here in desert Arizona. I have 200hrs on it and haven’t notice a single drawback. I’m mostly into very technical and aggressive hard enduro.
Was it a Showa dampener by chance?
I never use to use one but one came on my new bike, and I absolutely love it, I run just lightly for slow technical trails, but for fast sand and rutted roads when going at high speeds of 110 to 150 I'll have it on hard. 100% recommend. Even the eBay $100 Scott's nock off is great as well
110 to 150 😳👌
@@michael-michaelmotorcycle haha yeah mate, makes you feel alive, just maybe not for long🤪
@@michael-michaelmotorcycle km/h
@@michael-michaelmotorcycle klms not mph
I love my WER " work Enduro rider" damper it's great on my bike. And not been in the usual position under the handle bars means it leave more room for phone mounts and gps. My bike used to go into tank slapper above 130 on road sections (closed circuit of course).
Informative video, thanks. Many of our riders here in the tight woods of Eastern PA prefer them for when your bars clip trees. The bars are not ripped out of your hands as easily and your not ping ponged down the trail. When I review my riding films, several times I am grazing trees with the bars.
I did a lot of riding like that in BC Canada... freaky just clipping trees constantly! All the locals had trimmed their bar ends down.
@@crosstrainingenduro PER is right. Sometimes, on a good day, your entire bike clips a tree. ;)
😂
Love mine. Just takes one tank slapper to make ya a believer. If you have trouble with hand strength it'll help
I think you nailed It. I never felt the need but it's very individual like stegpegs, bar risers etc. Some hate them and some can't live without.
Cheers Peter. I love my Steg Pegz as I get to ride longer before my upper body fails. But I fully understand when others hate them. And in fact I always recommend younger riders try other alternatives first...
I've ridden with a stabilizer for years. At first I had it cranked up about in the middle of the settings. I even had flex bars. Like you said, I just learned to let the bike do it's thing underneath me and I've had the damper on the lowest setting to where it hardly does anything for about two years now. I think I'll just remove it and see if I miss it. I've had my flex bars off all season and I don't miss them! I have my suspension and riding position set up very well now so I think stabilizer and even flex bars aren't necessary.
I rode without my dampener while i sent it in to get serviced and I can tell a difference in how long I can ride/my soreness the following day riding creek beds and big open rock gardens. When I'm in tighter trails having the stabilizer can be a little intrusive as it will slow down the handlebars if you swifty make input but my bike came with a steering stabilizer and I don't see myself getting rid of it.
I have a Scott damper on my beta 300. I don’t think it hurts at all and like you said, at high speeds when you start tank slapping I’ll bet it’s wonderful. For me, I’m a low speed tractor rider and it doesn’t help at all. In fact if I weren’t so damn lazy I’d pull it off. But I am, so it stays right where it is.
You hit on most of the reasons to get one: 2T, fast terrain and sand. Doing 40+ across the sand or whoops on a 2T is way, way more controlled with a damper in place. I've also come to be in the habit of adjusting the force based on the day. If I'm on tight stuff, I dial it out and basically turn it off. On a sandy moto track this weekend I found myself cranking it in to help busting across the ruts.
I live in nevada where you can be in a sand wash for miles thats where i use mine the most.
Nevada rocks. Good times.
I had a Scotts damper on my RM250 and it made a huge difference. I didn't even feel it since it was hard to move the bars so fast that it would kick in. I had it set to only absorb high speed hits. It was definitely noticeable on rocky stuff. I tried the poor man's trick but it didn't help. Another thing to adjust is the rebound on the forks. Slowing it down helps with the kick but too much and the forks will pack and not rebound all the way. I kept it when the RM got sold, thinking I'd put it on the Beta but I have yet to do it since I haven't really seen the need yet. So I think it really depends on the bike. For now I have an expensive paper weight sitting in my cabinet!
Very good info. They are necessary in open desert such as high speed sand washes, etc.
That seems to be the conclusion of most very experienced riders, John.
@@crosstrainingenduro For sure. It only takes once getting the bars ripped out of your hands by hitting a hard to see baby head at speed. It's the high speed dampening that can save one' arse🤕
So glad you did this video. I was considering getting one but don't think I'll waste my money.
You can look through all these vids to get a range of opinions from others too.
try one for yourself you will probably like it they do there job very well
Never heard about steering damper on dirt bikes. I don't know, rather keep the money and spend on oil, filters, tires and other maintenance stuff.
Same here, Ernesto! But each to their own...
I've been battling wrist issues for the past 5-7 years, riding dirt for 2, so I'm looking for every little bit of help I can get. I got the Scotts with BRP Mounts (running blue inserts). Mostly got the Scotts for the sweep/deflection stabilizing which has helped quite a bit especially in the rocky stuff! I have been turning down the steering damping bit by bit and focusing on the less death grip this year but I'm not upset with my purchase. My problem isn't arm-pump per se (unless we're about 3 hours into strictly nasty stuff - looking at you Tim R if you're reading this =) ) but aches and numbness in my knuckles and fingers as well as aches around my wrist. Probably arthritis kicking in.
Many of us have all sorts of upper body issues when dirt riding, Sal. And often one thing will work for some riders but not others. If it helps, you might find it useful watching our vid about arm pump as quite a few of those tips can help take pressure off the upper body.
@@crosstrainingenduro Oh yeah I forgot about that one! I'll have to revisit it... Probably easier than my plan of replacing my arms and legs with biomechanical prosthetics.
I purchased my bike with a Scott's damper installed as an over bar mount and I've come to like it. I've found it nice to have when you're in deep sand and it does make some impact in rocks or a surprise off center hit on the front wheel. That being said I keep my low speed dampening settings very low and I dont really notice a whole heck of a lot of difference anywhere else. When I added a fatty front and taller trail oriented bars it made 10x more impact on control/stability. I plan to keep using my Scott's but I dont think I would ever buy one on my own dime.
That's an interesting point... a change of profile to your front knobby in effect costs nothing and yet in your case made a bigger difference.
steering damper gives you options not a bad thing. if price is a issue well you are riding a expensive toy. yes it works at what it does in situations if you don't want it turn it off. options are good mmkayyyy
My old bike (KTM 690) came with one. I used it at first but soon stopped turning it on. I ride mostly Southern California desert and forest singletrack. My current bike (500 exc-f) has no damper and I don’t miss it.
I never saw the need for a steering damper until racing a National Hare and Hound. For desert racing (unexpected terrain, in and out of sandy washes, hidden rocks) it seems like a big help
The general consenus seems to be you really need them to do desert racing, Eden. Which makes sense... most dirt bikes are designed around working well at low to moderate speeds for the most part, not tapped out in top gear.
Not needed but when adjusted correctly it saved me on big hit deflection 2-3 times. On my xcw450 i felt it changed the steering feel too much and removed it but on my te150i i forget it is there and calmed the steering down just a bit. I rode my te150i one year without it and it was fine but had it laying around after selling my 450. Bottom line not needed but can help some times.
I think a lot of riders see it that way
I bought an 03 KTM 450 EXC and it came with a Scotts steering damper. I did some research and people highly recommended them for my bike back then because the steering had really bad head shake. I just had my suspension upgraded so I might give this bike a shot with the damper switched off.
I have the same bike had it since new and have never experienced any head shake or steering problems with it. I ride very fast
For an "adventure" bike with a bunch of gear(weight) coming on and off the back of the bike, stabilizers can help. I totally agree that they don't work unless the rest of the suspension is working properly.
At my age, I see a steering damper as cheap insurance. I’ve promised myself I’ll remove it once I’m a good enough rider to go pro.
May i ask what age you are?
@@XHackZUSA early 60s
65yrs old here. Never had one been riding and racing since 1973. Being as I am old enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel and life in prison isnt a deterrent anymore I think I will keep going without😁
I have a KTM steering damper on my 300exc. And i only use it in long Sandy routes. (Or if my arms are getting tired)
For the single trails i turn off.
I do feel a steering stablizer are a must for me in the desert . High speed sand washes and hidden rocks it could be the difference of a swap or tank slaps. Problem with most people set it to stiff you shouldn't even notice it if set up properly. Dont let people play with nobs they cant help themselves. Dont touch my shit . Lol good vid but it's personal preference and wallet capabilty not cheap
The old school steering tension method has always served me well, on all my enduro bikes for 40 yrs.. From sl100s to yz450s. If your dessert racing for hours straight and feel it'll give you an edge, great. I'd rather have stegz pegz for my money.
Stegz pegz for money?
I made my own for about $6.00.
I'm a 67 year old and like my damper. I feel like it compliments a well set up suspension
I have a Scott's on my TE300, and a GPR on my 250 XC-W. I also ride with no damper on my 250XC and old XR250R. Ride a lot of rocks and roots in CO, and desert stuff as well, especially in UT. Are the dampers noticeable? I think they help when I hit ghost rocks and roots. But, I've hit those on the non-dampened bikes as well, and survived. I don't run either damper with much dampening. I think their biggest contribution is preventing the bars from "slapping" at speed. As for overall handling, they affect things very little, unless you crank the damping WAY up. I never do that. By the way, I received both dampers with bikes, so didn't technically "pay" for either one. Nor would I buy one outright, not for the price they sell for. So, probably not worth the money, in my opinion.
Interesting! A lot of experienced riders are saying similar things to you... although anyone into fast desert riding saying they love steering dampers.
Learned to ride on an 08 200xc with no stabilizer. My second bike was an 08 530 excr, the 530 had a stabilizer because the previous owner rode in sand dunes a lot. I never noticed the difference since it was a much bigger bike to begin with. My current 300xc doesn’t have one and I don’t think I’d ever spend the money on that type of upgrade for any bike I’ll own. I ride my 21 890 adventure r more than anything these days so I may be kinda spoiled. 😎
I have a Fastway. I have it set in a way where I don't think I feel it working except for when I get things wrong (usually more often then not) and have a hard hit to the front where it wants to rip the bars out of your hands. I'm hoping it will protect my brittle wrists (57 years old).
Agree completely - I rode a friends badly setup KTM500 in deep wooped sand (Larbert MX Braidwood) , 3-4 gear stuff. And about once a lap I felt dampener saved my arse. But I softened it up with more sag, clickers and turned off the dampener and it was 100 percent better bike. To stop a bike deflecting off things (Trail riding or Enduro) . Always start by going soft, (take all/most of the fork compression clickers off) set the bike up so it uses "90%" of its travel. Then do the same at the back until they feel balanced. Suspension tuners don't help, they put heaver springs in bikes because the rider weights 100kg. But they forget 80% of riders are crap and benefit from a softer complaint setup. KTM PDS is really sensitive to spring rate. It should (be banned - sorry I didnt really mean that) have almost no spring preload, you need the right spring for your weight, conditions (yes you will buy 3 springs before you find the right one) , with almost no spring preload and you want heaps of rider sag - like 120mm. Leave the spring collar a little loose and adjust as you ride (lean bike over on kick stand , rear wheel in the air and turn the spring - threaded collar should stick to spring). If the bike steers slow - put a extra turn on the preload to lift the arse and steepen the steering head and opposite if too fast. You adjust for given track/section/ride speed. Dirt bike suspension takes about 6-12 months to break in fully. In that time, take the compression clickers off mostly. As the ride plushness improves, slowly experiment with bringing them back on. Don't be talked into new fork/shock seals unless they are pissing oil, new seals give you stiction for months. Enduro pro's carry the same set of scratched, well broken in, KYB SSS forks from one bike to the next for years and years. Anyway that's my two cents worth.
Good point on the suspension, James! My suspension tuner didn't ramp up my springs on the Beta Xtrainer despite my weight... just messed with the valving. What a difference! You don't always need stiffer springs.
I used Scott’s stabilizer for 4 years and it was more headaches than benefits. I no longer use the stabilization and find it much more enjoyable and much less effort to ride. I find the dampener just makes you exhausted sooner especially in hard enduro ST
I have motoz rallz tires on my Ktm 890 adv r. It becomes dangerously twitching in triple digit mph. I added a Scots damper. It helps just a little bit.
I have a 15 Ktm 300 XC. I raced hair scrambles with it for a few years and once I would get up into 5th gear I got the tank slapping bars at 55 mph and was lucky to come out of it without a trip to the hospital. After that race I installed one and never had the problem again. I only race the 300 now in hard enduro and don’t really need it but since it’s on there and I’m use to it I’ve just backed the amount of damping down so it’s not a big deal. I race my 350 XC in hair scrambles now and didn’t ever need damping on it. So yes it helped out big time at top end speeds on my 300 but didn’t see the need on my 350.
It seems almost all desert racers fit them, Jon. And it stands to reason. Dirt bikes are designed to mostly handle slow to moderate speeds, not flat out in top gear. Especially two strokes! And those earlier KTMs were known to be very skittish too.
@@crosstrainingenduro yeah I had heard that the earlier models did have issues with that at top speed as well. So I think it definitely comes down to the age of your bike and model of bike and how fast you’re riding it . Does everyone need them ?? Absolutely not !!! But some people yes 😉
On my conventional fork 99 KTM 200 I never felt like I needed one. Those forks were that good. On my 2001 400 EXC it was completely transformed by a GPR stabilizer. A lot of this has to do with how good your suspension is from the get-go.
Quite a few guys are saying they helped on older dirt bikes, Jeff. But less, if at all, on the newer ones.
@@crosstrainingenduro the old conventional forks on the Euro brands in the late 90s were absolutely magic. They needed no help. I think the stabilizers were transformative for the early inverted fork bikes. I've been debating getting one for my 2012 KTM 150 but I have no need at all on my 2008 Husqvarna. I think it's just going to be a matter of more proper setup on my KTM. I Enjoy your channel BTW.
This is a phenomenonal channel, but on this topic, I feel that someone has misinformed the presenter as to the operation of a steering damper. Too many people get focused on the wise tail that their for curring head shake. This true of some old style single circuit units that look like a little hydraulic cylinder that derived from road bike duties. That is a different animal to modern offroad specific units. There's two circuits in these units, and everybody gets confused as to what they do because of their name. There's a low speed "circuit" & a high speed "circuit," and they operate most effectively at riding speeds opposite to their name. The high speed circuit you want active always, it does not effectively correct headshake or twitchyness unless things have gotten serious. The way to understand it's job is that it arrests fast movements of the handle bars lock to lock. Not your inputs, faster movements than a rider can generate. For example clipping the side of an unseen rock or rut that wants to rip the bars instantly to the locks one way or the other. It's like a bionic arm to catch those unseen widow makers and give the bike and rider a better chance of only deflecting and continuing forward instead of and instantaneous full lock snap and over the handle bars flight. So in low speed riding like single track you actually want to increase your high speed dampening. At high speed ie desert racing, that's when you want to arrest headshake, nervous front end that's done with the low speed control. Because it's to control low speed bar moments which are with in the speed range of that of a riders input. That is why you will feel the low speed as a resistance to your inputs also. At high speed you will tend to run significant low speed dampening but maybe back off on your high speed a little as it may cross over with your low speed settings at high motorcycle speeds.
I bought a 2008 wr250r with $1,000 worth of upgrades including a steering stabilizer. I wasn't impressed. I didn't think any of those upgrades were necessary. Later on I bought a 2017 wr250r completely stock and I loved it!
I bought a bike once that was blinged to the max like that, Brian. I sold it all off and made about $1500. Then eventually sold the bike for the same price... bargain!
I had terrible arm pump on my Ktm , put a Scott’s on no more arm pump.recently bought new Yamaha wr250f no arm ,no stabilizer,no arm pump and the best stock suspension I’ve ever rode go figure,lol
I do a lot of desert racing out here in California USA, and riding an Enduro bike with poor geometry can be a struggle at speed. I find that on my Husky TE250, the steering stabilizer is a necessity in most cases for the desert, but when I take the occasional trip to the woods I turn it down almost to being off. On my old Honda motocrosser however, a steering stabilizer is needed just to go in a straight line haha. It corners well, but if you want to be comfy cruising above 40 then you need to upgrade the existing damper (under the number plate for my bike 2012 CRF250r). Anyways, for the riding that I see in these videos a steering damper would be going, and maybe even a hindrance, but if you ever ride out in the desert, it can add a level of security and safety that is very beneficial.
I've seen quite a few guys say this, Jake. Certain older models can really benefit which makes sense. The handling on some of those bikes is probably downright evil compared to a modern bike lol.
No pro level enduro riders have them. But every single dakar/rally bike has them.
So maybe trying that type of riding and seeing if it feels
Different would be interesting?
I have 2 ktm 690s. 1 with and 1 without damper.
I cannot honestly tell if there is a difference because unfortunately i havent ridden both bikes in the same conditions.
But i did feel like in namibia riding deep desert sand at 130kmh it kept the natural sweeping left and right motion of the handlebars a little in check.
This might be just in my head though haha.
I do disagree on the chinese clone opinion because they work pretty well exactly the same. Only the scotts function to have a zero resistance back to center isnt on the chinese ones.
Other than that. By the time you go through 10 chinese ones (to make up the price diff) you probably wont even be riding bikes anymore.
Completely agreed, it is overrated. Never feel a need to get one.
My RM250 used to have a frightening headshake at speed. I hardly ever notice it now, that may be due to experience or because I switched to a fatty tyre at some point
Old RM's and CR's steer really well, because they have steep steering head angles, but they head shake on dirt track at 100kmh . Sag the back or slide the forks down 5mm in the triple clamps. The fatty front (90/100/21) tire is lifting the front 5-10mm and slowing the steering down. Everything is a compromise - you cant have it all.
I got one (for trail usage), never add to lock it. But looks cool
I had an Australian made stabiliser, was ok for a while but started dumping all its oil out, went close to my front brake disc which was worrying. Rang up the company but they went bust for some reason 🤔 I may as well of took out $800 cash and put it straight into landfill. Best thing to do is hit the gym a bit, doesn’t even have to be all that often or intense, or just do a bit at home.
Sometimes it might help sometimes it might hinder, even at high speed you may need to make a super quick steering input which would be slowed by a stabiliser.
Bummer about the oil leak, Patrick. I do know with the better ones you can get them serviced.... no idea how much that costs. You definitely get a wide range of opinions about whether they are worthwhile or not!
I don't ride fast enough to even consider getting one...😂😂😂
Hi, tanks for another great video! I have never tested a steering damper, and never considered buying one. But this video got me thinking. Last year I injured my right shoulder, and this year I got the same injure in my left shoulder. Both injuries came from a fast twitch on the handlebar when I was tired. I didn't even crash. Of course very hard to say, but do you think a steering damper could have prevented this?
Very hard to say, Erik. Some riders claim they'll prevent that sort of thing happening. But then we always wonder if it's more about better riding technique? A very important aspect of safety is conserving your energy to avoid mistakes like that too.
Almost definitely. It's a hydraulic damper on bar rotation, which would have slowed the rotation speed to something tolerable unless the force was so high it blew seals in the damper. Your injury was caused by an undamped bar moving while you tried to hold on.
But you probably also shouldn't be hanging on that hard, it should have knocked the bars out of your hands, not injured your shoulder 😆
yes it would have made a difference that what they do. would you still have crashed maybe but yes they definitely work at slowing the twitch on the handlebar. i have on my ktm and wouldn't ride without personally i like the little rise they give and you can tighten them for street riding or super rocky stuff.
Great vid and advice as always.
Thanks Russ!
Been riding off-road and supermoto all my life and never felt the need for a steering stabilizer, the price of them is crazy and would be better spent on setting up your suspension
I own a 2015 KTM 200 exc and am an experienced rider. When I first got the bike anything out of 3rd gear it would get the head shakes big time (I'm talking full lock each way at 60 kmph +) I tried to tighten the head stem bearing which made little to no difference. So about a year ago I decided to bite the bullet and purchase an above bar MSC Moto steering dampener. It took me about 10 hrs of seat time to figure out a good all round setting. Since getting one the steering has been chalk and cheese at high speeds and haven't had head shakes since. The only draw back I have found is that if I'm doing moderate speed riding with lots of hard turning of the bars quickly I get fatigued much faster. And yes I have noticed they do stop deflection in very Rockey sections. I have also recently had my suspension tuned for my riding ability weight and discipline and did have to adjust the damper a couple of clicks. So in my opinion for my situation it was well worth the money in reducing my risk of having a potentialy life threatening crash. Whilst I would recommend trying one out I would recommend it to everyone.
Thanks for the feedback, Jack. I do know some two stroke models tend to be a bit skittish...
Good advice, thank you.
Completely anecdotal, but I do think my stabilizer has saved me from a couple crashes. I’ve never installed one onmy own, just bought a bike with one. I probably wouldn’t install one if I bought a bike that didn’t have one already.
Love your whole series!
Glad they are helpful, Dave 😎
Spot on Video,
I had a stroke, lost balance and didn't ride much for 2 years, I was out of riding shape, Daughter and I were riding an out and back rocky road, got in 3 of 8 miles in and discovered arm pump is for REAL. Daughter had a bike with a scott's me, nothing, we switched bikes and I finished that 16 mikes with less pain. My very out of shape arms, the Scotts ROCKed.
I do a ride in Idaho in the usa called the T1, long days, I'd like to think the scott's helps fatuge, but have no data to back that up.
Scott's, great bling to blind your buddies when they forget sunglasses!!!!!!!!!!!! I don'y buy new bikes, so I try to get a Scott's on a 2nd hand bike! ( I don't tell my buddies I got the scotts already on a bike, lol)
Question, with practice, can you throw a Chinesium Scott's 50m? I'm probably a 35m guy, lol. I do think I'd not huck my legit one.
Thanks for all your videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great to hear your back riding after the stroke, Brad! A mate of mine had a brain injury from a nasty dirt riding accident and it took a few years to regain his balance enough to ride again... but it never quite came back to the same level in his case.
I find that after two to four hours of single track having the crutches such as damper ,auto clutch and pivot pegs add up to a ride to remember rather than a ride to forget .Lots of little bits of help can compensate for rubbish skills and poor level of fitness.
@@EwePeople Sad but all to true.
no amount of skill will stop your handle bar from twitching but a damper will
@@bobsbill4615 For sure my damper has saved me pain more than once !!
Great video as usual. I have a Steering damper on my Husaber FE 390 ans can not tell any benefit. It is there, but the level of my ride is still the same kkkkk
Have been on a couple super sports with them...I guess it dumbs down the twitching a bit but meh.
I'm too busy riding to ever get a sponsorship to pay for all the fancy things.
Another great review. I did the poor mans stabiliser, works well !! I reckon Flex Bars might be a better mod :-)
Ill give this a go. I got the floppy bars
I don't roll with a steering damper always been DRY fur me I don't have the the terrain pain the motorbike IS my pain reliver 👍😆
Took my damper off my ktm 250xc honestly can’t tell difference!
I would urge anyone interested in a damper to test one by actually REMOVING the damper and riding the same bike back-to-back with the damper present and absent. With the dampers I am familiar with, you can't "turn them off" in that they always exert an effect on hard hits no matter what the settings. You can only really appreciate the affects of a damper by riding a bike with a damper, and then riding the same bike again with the damper removed.
I needed one when I was learning to ride, at some point the shear pin snapped and i didn't notice. So yes and no.
I take them off even my street bikes. (Strangely, the MotoGp guys have em....) Never been an issue. Even on an RC8R with the front wheel coming off the ground at triple digit speeds. My 300XC geared for the street (supermoto) is dead stable.
its weird to start riding with 1 & then to go & ride without 1 is weird. its all what you get used to. i loved my w.e.r. stabilizer, but it did not make me graham jarvis, it did help me move from a C-class lapper to a stay on the same C-class lap kind of muppet.
Some Chinese products are great - my phone, laptop ...err, sweet and sour chicken balls... for example - I tried a direct-from-China eBay steering damper on my Daytona 675. And it worked great. For 1 track day. When the bike got cold I'm guessing the differential shrinkage between the alloys in the chassis and the bushings meant the item literally fell to pieces while still fitted. I couldn't stomach the price of a "proper" damper but ask me now if I'm willing to pay! ...The answer is STILL "no way!", so I just don't run one :D
Hopefully the Chinese made dampers would never be able to seize up and prevent steering, Peter? I'm trying to avoid Chinese stuff where possible, it's tough when it comes to electronics!
My steering is damped by my camelbak and my kitbag being strapped to the headlight. I dont want stuff strapped to my back.
I remember strapping my little tent to my DR650 bars for one adventure ride, man that caused some weird handling characteristics lol.
@@crosstrainingenduro i cut my kit back to 1 T shirt 1 pair of speedos and a pink G string.....it really helps with arm pump.
Too much information 🤣
Depends on the bike. Most bikes nowadays don’t need them IMO.
Have you ever tried the Showa style ???
No I think it was a Scott I tried...
Have you guys ever rode in Sherwood state forest nsw?
No, haven't heard of that one, Ethan.
You also didn't mention the potential false sense of security the stabilizer gives. I know a lot of guys that crash more in the rocks with these fitted as they get lazy after convincing themselves that the device will do all the work for them.
I use the poor man's stabilizer described here. Never needed more.
Good point. That sounds a bit like the body armour issue. Some guys buy that bulky body armour then ride harder and crash more because they feel safer...
Rear sage can make a huge difference in front end stability.
I found sage, rosemary and thyme help at the rear too.
I hated the steering damper and the pivot pegs when i had it. I'm not even a good rider and I found those 2 things to be unnecessary. They actually affected my riding cos it felt unnatural. It's just my opinion though and I'm not criticising anyone who finds those things helpful.
Good approach, Hamzah! Just figure out what works for you. And don't assume everyone else should be exactly like you. 👍😁
'overrated bling or must-have accessory' Two sides of the same coin in my garage..But yeah, most if these 'improvements' = by and large, between the ears.
I see things like guys raving about the incredible impact that a fork brace had on their DR650 and always think "I'd love to see proper scientific test done to analyse that". I reckon most of the the time it will be pure placebo effect lol.
Nah you’re wrong they are awesome. Toby Price uses one
For desert racing? Of course he would Jimmy. Most desert racers do. As clearly stated in the vid "If you are desert racing, or simply tapped out in top gear a lot, it's probably a great idea."
you say it's 80% the rider and 20% the machine, but that's not my experience really. A lot of the times on dirt trails I feel it's my fine enduro bike --not me-- that does most of the work and keeps me up beyond what I thought I was capable of. Proof is that not for a minute I think I'd be able to even consider the same feats on my road bike. so is this 80/20 a myth, or am I a better rider I give myself credit for 😂
It's definitely only a very general concept and it's impossible to put numbers on this unless you mapped out the criteria in great detail. E.g. If you compare a Honda Goldwing with an enduro bike on single tracks, it will be 95% the bike. 😂 I think the 80/20 is just a general principle in some situations, such as will this knobby make me a better rider? Will this brand new model make me ride much better than my five year old dirt bike? Will spending thousands on Ohlins suspension dramatically improve my riding?
Don't need any - I think whoever buy them is experiencing placebo effect :) I'd rather get better forks and geometry set right.
The dreaded placebo effect... I think it's behind a lot of the money we throw at our bikes then discover we really aren't riding that much better. 😂
Top riders do not use pink handlebars either. They look cool anyways, thinking about stealing them from my daughter's Barbie scooter. 😆
Top riders all use pink bars due to the extra horsepower, Mauricio. But they paint them black to avoid the embarrassment.
@@crosstrainingenduro You made me laugh man 🤣🤣🤣
holy handlebar streamers batman!
They have been blessed by Jarvis himself, Kevin... or that's what the ad said.
no need here.
Quite Hands that’s the key…!!!
Sometimes I think I need a steering damper for my life...
I know the feeling, Sushi 🤣
@@crosstrainingenduro If you find one that works, let me know.
eyup bazza wots that saying ? a bad mechanic always blames his tools ?
I always blame my computer and editing software for my low quality videos....
@@crosstrainingenduro LMFAO u need a blast on the piaggio to bring you round and some time with cleetus
Or you just overweight the front wheel because of fear or basically being out of shape for riding.
90/100 front. There is your woods steering dampener.
Amen
Just more crap added to bikes we don't need. Just like abs braking and all the other electronic aided stuff on most newer bikes, If you can't ride these bikes without these things perhaps your riding outside of your skill level... Personally I think alot of these things take the fun and experience out of motorcycling and makes the bikes over complicated and less reliable in places where you need it.
IMHO the damper is totally useless, better to spend this money on gasoline, tires, bike maintenance.
About fancy hardware and bikes
Funny thing, I'm hearing regularly something like "If you grew out of 250cc - try 450cc+". At this moment in my mind appears "What does it mean grew out?. Have you won any championship or so?"
The obsession with 450cc dirt bikes is a source of amusement in my riding group. In some cases they can work well, but most of the time they are just bought by guys unable to use all that power and they'll just ride slower as a result. 😂
@@crosstrainingenduro yeap, it's an illusion that engine volume is the key
rubbish! steering dampers come with different mounts and handlebars -if properly installed they dont change any dimensions of the bike. and they do make a difference
Get your facts right before commenting. The video clearly stated that only some types of steering dampers might raise the height of the handlebars. And yes they do make a difference for some riders. But read through the comments and you will see others riders feel they don't make a differnce.
no talking about the his handlebar bling?
What... the pink sweat band on my headlight shroud? Good for at least 10% more horsepower.