Articulate, systematic, concise and calm. A refined gentleman. Easily the best drum channel on TH-cam. You’re a champion in the community. Thank you and keep doing what you do.
As a recording engineer/producer, I always encourage drummers to tune their drums way higher than they would typically. It just gives the kit so much more room to work within the mix, and lets each tom sit in it's own spot. I see drummers with 5 toms, all tuned super low, and they do a fill but it sounds like one or two toms because they are all tuned so low the articulation and color of each drum is lost. As a drummer, I tune my kit as low as it'll go. haha.
I’ve always tuned my drums considerably higher than I think I should because of the distance/depth relationship. Never judge your kit sound by how it sounds from sitting behind it because it almost always lies to you!! 😂
I used to default to low tunings, but then I discovered (through this channel) that a bigger drum at higher tension gives the same pitch, but sounds so much bigger. I then fell in love with the feeling of hitting a drum and feeling the shell vibrate because it's sending the energy out It just feels so much bigger when i do that than when i was trying low tunings
this is so true! In the studio I used 24-14-18 tuned medium but my own kit is only 22-13-16 and it just won't get to a similar sound to feeling ratio the bigger shells had. But 2 inches is a lot of space in the back of a car so I probably stick to the smaller shells :)
The problem is: I like the pitch of my 18" and 20" floor toms when they are tuned low. What the hell am i supposed to do? Move the 18 and 20s up and use 22 and 24's as floor toms?
@@hannes1734 i mean, there's nothing stopping you if you wanted to I guess a question I might ask is, are you wanting that tone *and* projection of the sound? Im of course asking this assuming you're going to have minimal mics if any
I used to tune low to get that “big rock sound”, only to find out that, on live recordings and when a friend of mine played my drums, it got completely lost in the mix and I achieved the opposite of what I wanted :) Nowadays I tune for maximum resonance and a full open tone. Maybe a bit to high from behind the drums, but it sounds great in a full band mix.
Great advice on the stick tips! Experiment with different shapes and sizes of tips, as well as types of wood, length and weight. Even though I am happy with my collection of different sticks and brushes for different venues, I still practice with different pairs of them on my heads and cymbals. There are so many different sounds from the same tuning of heads. "One size does not fit all." Always be open to change. I'm 75 years old and I've been playing since I was 15 years old, and I am still learning! Enjoy the trip.
I learned long ago that in the case of sound size matters. If you want the sound of a deep 18", you need an 18" not 16" tuned low. With companies going to 10, 12 and 14 instead of 12, 13 and 16 it means we have to get used to higher pitches or start buying larger drums again.
Hi Algo, Don't know why YT suggested you to me (drum aren't my thing), but I'm glad: you are doing an awesome job! Thank you for sharing your unique perspective. Bye, Rithm
Talking about e-rings and muffling that's why I started (and keep) using Remo powerstroke 4, which are basically double ply heads with a pre-installed ring. It helps me use a higher tuning and getting a lower tone and I prefer them rather than unmuffled 2 ply heads
I always tuned low. For big, fat sound. With bad ears, and little to no reference pitches. I was tuning "flat" of any notes. Bringing them up in pitch, setting right on the the notes F#, D#, B (Hi-Lo) made a huge difference.. Thanks for "talking shop". You always have great suggestions and info for any drummer. 😊
Every show I did in the 80’s with standard depth Tom’s med tuning and high on the snare got me tons of compliments. All the other kits sounded like mud and didn’t cut through.
Thank you so much for this video, guys! I've been strugling for some years looking for for a beefie sound from the snare drum and geting frustrated by the difference on the sound that i hear on the kit and the sound recorded from the audience. The room, close and overhead mics perspective just blowed my mind and made me understand what's happening with my situation. The insights about the musical situations, stages and situtations that i am playing. Again: Thank you so much!
This is the episode I was waiting for. Eventhough I already figured most of it out by myself it is always interesting to hear how you guys deal with issues.
Cody, love the way you tune your Toms. Notwithstanding EQs and Mics, I never hear that annoying ringing overtones. I'M only a recreational drummer, at 71 yo retired guy, who resurrected playing drums after 50 Years. I watch your videos with earnest Learning To Fly , in the words of Tom Petty. I never knew anything about tuning my drums 50 years ago, and now learning about the art of tuning and different heads. I love the Doooo, Doooo sound that Jared at DRUMEO talks about. I still have not engaged putting cotton balls in my floor toms , you mentioned in other videos of tuning tricks. I use Evans E-Rings on 4 of the Toms in my kit ( 8, 10, 12 inch rack toms & 14 and 16 inch floor toms) ; but not on the 8 inch tom. I am using G2s coated batter heads on all the Toms Except the 10 inch Tom, where i use a EC2 Clear. My biggest challenge is getting to that Sweet Spot of desireable sound from the 12 inch Tom? The ec2 sounds grossly too plasticky on this drum, and the G2 Coated , just ot there? I have a PDP Concept Maple kit purchased used in 2021 via Guitar center which upgraded from a cheapo Gammon kit that I ga e to my 5 year old grandson. Keep up your terrific videos.
I figured the higher tuning projection thing out by close micing the kit and playing it through a live pa. To high gets thin though. Playing through a live pa helps you understand the physics between the drum mics and room. Hours of experimental fun.
Back in the old days, I tuned my heads really low because I thought it sounded powerful and cool. But I got so tired of denting my heads. Also, I started listening to drummers who played with more finesse, and it seemed to me that they were all tuning their toms much higher. I liked the articulation possible with higher-tuned heads, and now that's pretty much how I approach tuning now. A 16x16 floor tom can still have a lot of depth, even if there's enough tension on the heads for decent doubles. I'm a hobbyist now, and I tune my heads however I want.
I use Remo coated vintage emperors on my tom batter heads with remo clear emperors on the resonant side. 15mill on top (2 ply 7.5mill) and 14 mill on bottom(2 ply 7 mill). Low tuning and a little dampening really gives you a fat thuddy tom sound. Dampening on top head might be gaff tape or moongel. I'll use a small piece of cheesecloth inside the drum that bounces off the resonant head to kill excess resonance. Acts like a gate in mixing. Comes in handy in a pinch depending on the situation. Tom sizes diameter/depth: 8"x7", 12"x9", 16"x14", and 18"x16". Vater Power 5B for sticks (nice fat barrel tip).
I love the discussion of tuning to your context - I’d like to add that many drummers (especially ones who came up in the 90’s) tune their snares waaaay to HIGH. Everyone loves a good cracking snare with lots of “cut”… until it’s too much. This past Sunday I was at a festival, and the drummer was playing his good, cracking snare, and un-mic’d it was hitting around 110dbA… at the back of the tent, 60’ away. 😮 It was completely out of balance with the rest of his kit, and resulted in a horrible (and painful) mix in the room.
I used to tune very low but then I realized how much better the open and resonant voice of the drum sounded to the mics and to the room, how much more attack I could get and a better feel when I tuned the drums way to the high mid range. Never looked back with my Tama Superstar Maple Custom kit.
Great video as always! I'm definitely guilty of tuning my drums too low, so the input is much appreciated. Especially tuning higher, but applying more muffling - I'll be sure to try this the next time I use my own drums at a gig.
Very useful, I recently made this adjustment and can only recommend it for rock and metal. Cuts much more, the presence in the room is better and mics love it.
Alright I'm going to try tuning my two floor toms and bass drum up a bit now. Might tighten the rack toms a bit, too, but I'll see after raising the floor toms
I love to use TrueVibe isolation mounts on my floor tom, with a SnareWeight M80 on the batter head. It's only a 14" drum, but the isolation mounts give me a full, round tone & the M80 controls the length of the tone, so I get some articulation. For me, Evans EC2S heads really help to complete the sound, as I find them easy to tune to a moderately low pitch. For the other drums (usually 10" & 12"), I tend to keep them in a medium pitch range, & if I need a lower rack tom sound, I swap my 10-inch tom for a 13-inch.
i have my drums tuned very low. i get a wide frequency range because my toms aren't 12 ,13, and 16. i use 8, 10, 13, and 16. i prefer it this way because my 8 sounds higher than a 10 that has been cranked and it doesn't sound choked. i'm past the point of playing out, so that's not really an issue i've run into (my drums projecting). the heads have lasted long. so long that i'm reluctant to say how long they've been on the set. they still give me everything i want when i'm recording. plenty of attack and a full tone. they still sing. i'm using a 2-ply coated head on the tops and a single ply clear on bottoms. the one compromise i am making is the feel, there's very little rebound off these toms, but it's not something i look for from a tom. my snare gets tuned up a little so that, with the snares off, it is one step higher than my 8 in tom. it's not for everyone, but for me, it translates to the sound i want to hear both behind the kit and on recordings.
I always tuned my Luwig drums too low and i never got that sound that I was chasing, until recently i tuned them higher and damn everything changed big time.
I can't tell you much I needed these tips. In the last year ive really dove into drumming and recording my drums again. and everything you said is what I was doing wrong ha. I did just did not realize how low I was tuning my drums. just in the last month I started going a bit higher and had DRAMATIC night and day difference recording in my small project studio. Also I love that you let us hear every type of mic set up! Being able to hear each one. Overheads, rooms, and close mics only was so helpful, because I could not figure out why I was getting so much bottom snare sound in all of my mics and when I heard your room mics, I was like omg thats it. Please keep doing that!
Very important topic! Also the fact that a higher tuned will sound louder (acoustic) than a low tuned kit. Which is important to consider if you bring your low tuned kit (optimized for mic'ed settings) to an acoustic or minimal mic'ed situation. Your toms and kick will not project very much, like the difference between the close mics and ambient mics in this video illustrates. Also I find with a low tunes snare, maybe dampened with an e-ring or BFD, that because the top head is low and dampened, the top head to bottom head/snare wires ratio gets messed up. So dampening the bottom head with a Snarepal or something similar will be necessesary for the snare wires to not overpower the low tone of your top head.
I have long held the belief that there is a current generation of drummers who tune their drums too low. I am 60 and have been playing for 49 years. So I grew up with the big band drummers and moved into the late 60's and early 70's rock drummers (especially from England) who also grew up on American jazz/big band drummers. As a result, I have always tuned my drums higher. The air moves faster, the pitch is fuller, the projection is stronger, the rebound is much more helpful, and they just feel better. I see drummers who use the approach of just getting the wrinkles out and going for the lowest fundamental possible. And then to make it worse, put moon gel or tape on them or use pinstripes or other muted heads. Are you kidding?? Might was well play on a pillow. I can't stand that sound!! Bonham is often sighted as having heavy drums. Yes, they were but not because of lower tuning. Exactly the opposite. We know he tuned his drums like a big band drummer. But he used big drums and that made a huge difference in the low end that can be delivered. But they were very clean and projected like crazy. The drum that is being impacted the most by this low tuning ideal is the bass drum. It becomes a dead and dynamically limited drum. You owe it to yourself to play with the tension and get it into a higher than comfortable range. Also, please if you can, record it out front of your kit. You might be surprised how much more powerful the drum can sound and how much easier it is to play as well.
I'm a recreational drummer who at 71 yo, retired, plays drums about 1hour a day to My Music. Other than sports, playing drums provides a nice hobby and pleasure in the Golden Years. I typically enjoy that PHAT tom sounds, but after reading your comments and this watching video I am being convinced to tune the drums a bit higher. I do muffle the drums except the snares with Evans E-Rings. My biggest challenge is my health. Lots of spinal arthritis, lumbar, neck, and in my hips , knees, and now encroaching into my hands / thumbs. Which leads to the best tip of the day for all........ drink lots of water, I never did and paid the price for that. Your spinal discs are 80% Water. Pzy attention to your body, i didnt until it was too late . On a more happy note, I am so proud to be able to play an instrument . Happy Drumming.
I'm currently in a progressive metal band, and shortly after I joined, the vocalist kept asking why I tuned my toms so high? I'm a 3 up 1 down guy and like some melody to my toms, and as soon as we got into a larger room to play a show, he was amazed at how the overtones disappeared at a distance, and the volume carried more than toms with lower tunings. Regarding muffling, a friend of mine uses a 5mm thick Van Kleef bronze snare that St.Anger's like hell in small spaces, but sounds kind of dry outside. Loudest snare I've ever heard, and he refused to muffle it until a sound engineer just completely gave up when trying to sound check him once.
Your kit sounds like the mahogany gretsch 1up2down setup I have in my garage diy studio. My favorite sound by far. This summer in texas tho, I’ve have more outdoor gigs than ever, especially with little to no mic’ing, and I’ve been forced to completely rethink how I tune & setup the drums I gig with. I have even gone so far as to buy my first Non-wooden snare just to have more consistent tuning outdoors with the crazy humidity. This video could not have come at a more relevant time for me. Thanks as always for the superb content!!
I use gigantic drums (30, 22, 18, 13) tuned up higher than a regularly tuned drum kit. It feels great to play and allows my bandmates to use as many 100+ watt amps as they want without overpowering the drums. They get noise complaints and I have to squeeze them into my SUV, but oh well I can live with that
I always used to tune my drums really low as they sounded great behind the kit until I heard a recording of a gig and they sounded dreadful, I now always tune them well higher, really weird they sound so different in front of the kit !!
I love E rings and would use them more often, but one mis-judgement and you've torn it off with the tip of your stick. Also, they always go missing and it's really had to keep them in pristine condition on the road, which they need to be or they don't work correctly. I'd love a solution of like little clips on the hoop that keep them in place, because when you tape them on they don't behave quite the same way. I love the sound, but they're annoying to deal with in all other aspects lol.
I always use to inadverdently get crimps or a fold on my o rings. Instead of tossing it i took scissors and cut out the bad part. Sometimes it's even better cut up!
On the room mic, the unmuffled low tuned toms sound like pretty much like they have only one head. Also, when I use more than one E-ring it makes a lower pitch than with one E-ring, so I think along with the dampened overtones it lowers the pitch by slowing the vibration of the head to some degree.
I use a low snare batter head tuning a LOT in smaller rooms with let's say, "less than ideal" acoustics. Yes, I know you love Neil Peart's Snare drum sound, I do too, but when you're playing in effectively a discount-Buffalo Wild Wings, that sound isn't going to work. Every snare hit is going to tear everyone's heads off, and the rest of your band might as well go home because that (and cymbals) is all you're going to hear. Whereas if you drop the tuning and muffle it, it'll bring it back in to the realm of manageable in smaller, overly reflective rooms, which let's face it that's where we're going to be playing the majority of our gigs. It works ESPECIALLY well if you employ my "Snare Skirt" trick. You take a black towel (approx 2x4ft) fold it in half so it's 2x2, then drape it from the bottom hoop of your snare drum, so it reduces how much of the bottom head gets projected out into the audience by a substantial amount, it reduces the overall volume and "presence" of the live snare in the room by nearly 50%. The beauty is though, that there's an gap on the back side, so it's open to the drummer, so he still hears the bottom head basically like normal. The result is a "duller" sound out front, but it's 1,000% worth it to compromise the tone of 1 out of 16+ inputs to improve everything else significantly. I recommend you all give it a try in those situations. I also give Cory (or any other drum channel for that matter) full permission to make a video about that. The more drummers that hear about this trick, the better for everyone!
@@offshoretomorrow3346 When we first tried it we sort of wedged it around the rim of the bottom hoop, between that and the 2 "petals" for the snare stand. But now, we got some 1-inch fabric strips with a little alligator clip, hanging from the tension rods. But the first way totally works with nothing but a towel and some clever wedging, just since we adopted it to more of a long terms solution, we got the clips on amazon for like 6 bucks so deploying it is much less tedious and annoying, and takes less time.
@guanabarasound for more at our side. Please run some outdoors episodes, maybe revisitng the basics, or first seasons. It will be a really help for those following, at least indeed for drummers jumping for the room to the stage! Best sounds, ALLWAYS.
E-rings are amazing, and the only go-to muffling that I use. I tend to tune this low in church environments on purpose, to minimize stage volume, and maximize close mic tone. I find it can help with volume complaints.
Except for the Snare, I usually play on handtightened Evans genera Dry HD (the resos are also handtightened), bc our sound guy doesn't want any overtones in the drum sound. Might be a bit extreme, but it's great for recording 😉
I like the effect of low tuned toms, I just don't like the actual sound, if that makes sense. Increasing the interval between heads to a fourth or fifth helps get back some of the sound I like, i.e. less boom and a little more attack.
+soundslikeadrum *Heavier heads will impose a reasonable stress on the lugs at lower tunings.* I'm awaiting release of an EVANS®/D'Addario® B10HW Heavyweight Coated Reverse Dot to complement the B12HW, B13HW, and B14HW already in production, due to unique tuning needs for Shinoda Hall, OMS Japanese Christian. (I've shortlisted BD22EMADHW batter and BD22GB4CT resonant for the kick, TT10G12/TT12G12/TT14G12 tom resonants, and B14UV2 batter and S14R50 snare-side for the center drum.)
I've definitely been guilty of tuning my drums a little to low, especially my 14 inch floor tom. Sometimes though, in a smaller room, a lower tuned snare drum seems to allow me to hit a little more freely without projecting to much. But with the floor tom I've definitely been experimenting with a tighter and higher tunings. Especially when I was having trouble playing a 4 stoke ruff to end a song. Heh heh! 🥁❤️
Hey John, I'm only a recreational 71 yo, drummer. I play solely to My Music about 1 hour a day. I resurrected playing after 50 Years (1969) for enjoyment / retirement. I hope to keep playing until my arthritic conditions limit me. I too have difficulty with my Floor Toms (14 & 16 Inch) - Maple Drum kit. One tip I found is to use Evans E-Rings which Muffles the drums (I use them on my 10 &12 Inch Rack Toms too - but not a the 8 Inch Tom). I use Evnas G2s coated batter heads on all the Toms except for the 10 inch TOm using a Evans EC2 Clear and the E-Ring. As this video and many others show that Tuning is an Art which I knew nothing about when I first started in 1966 [Thanks to Ringo and Charlie Watts ]. I like the Rumble tone of the Floors but not when there is too much Overtone. Gotta try those Cotton Balls in the drum technique. Happy Drumming.
@@Chiroman527 thanks for the advice. I too use the rings on my toms. Especially in some of the smaller rooms that I play. But I do want to try the cotton balls. I think they,along with tuning a little bit higher, might do the trick. Hopefully I'll be able to keep drumming as long as possible. I'm 58 now and hope to be playing into my 70s like you. Thanks for reaching out and keep on keeping on! 🥁❤️
Without even watching this episode, I can tell the answer is yes. I just played a show where there was a house kit provided. A beautiful DW kit. It was tuned so low it was all attack and no tone, but I didn't change it because it belonged to the drummer for The last band to play. I also used the snare drum that was a very upscale custom drum and it sounded awful. It was used by the previous drummer and it was out of tune it was tuned way too low had no tone definition. Wires were over cranked. I fid chznge that. My old ludwigs and superphonic tuned to itself as well as tuned to the kit sounds better than any of this high-end stuff. Now. I will watch.
I tune super low but i''ve been starting to realize that the drums don't speak well in the room. This video reinforced that notion. The big red flag for me that started me thinking about tuning higher was I had my 12 and 14 sounding great, nice and low and punchy, but I can't tune the 16 low enough to sound the same as the other toms. I'm going to start tuning the high toms higher so the 16 can be more musical.
Excellent content and nice timing! I've been struggling lately with live tom sounds. The 500 - 1000 seaters we've been playing all have massive subs in the PA, and my normal ambassadors on the toms were not working. The tone was good up close, but those subs would get the toms ringing and ringing. So much that the engineer was having to gate them 🤢. Went to clear emperors and tuned them a little up, and the resos a tad lower. I can usually get away with little or no muffling now if the PA is tuned right. Otherwise, a little tape, a snareweight or a zero ring will work fine, depending on how much muffling I need. Really could've used this video a month ago 😆!
Used to have (as most drummers probably have done in 90's and seeing Peart and Gadd use them) was hydrolic heads. They do have a deeper note to them fundamentally, but then I grew out of that phase because wanted more tone. But tuning a larger drum a bit higher I have to try, never thought about it having same pitch.
This is an excellent video. I’ve noticed that I’ve always need to tune slightly higher than the Just Above Wrinkle method in order to get projection. I didn’t realize smaller beads on the drum sticks reduces the life of the head. But damn I love the small tips for jazz playing.
I'm looking to get a new kit. I want 3 toms on top and I can't decide the sizes. I've done 8, 10, and 12 in the past. But I kinda want to do 10, 12, 13 or 14. any opinions?
I had read somewhere to always keep them 2" apart because you'll need it for pitch separation. I didn't know 20 years ago when I bought my kit. So when I tune my 14 and 15 in toms to the drums sweet spot they sound exactly the same.
@@goodtimejohnny8972 for sure. another thing im looking into is having the top toms shorter so they can be lower to the bass drum and more flat. I was told that if drums are shorter they're not as loud. true?
@@paddyDeeful I don't think so. Think of a marching band. The drum line has quads and sometimes quints that cut through an entire band with brass and woodwinds. So in my opinion shallow drums are just as loud as the deeper shells. The tuning won't go as low on a shallower tom though, that is why rock guys had deep toms at an extreme angle above the kick. Bigger the drum lower the note, smaller the drum higher the note.
Big drums tuned high is where it's at for loudness, power, stick rebound, projection, better sound in front of the kit and thru the PA. Resonant heads tuned higher than batter heads, Emperor over Emperor or Emperor over Ambassador. Not a new thing at all - the Bonham approach, essentially. I dig the thuddy, low JAW tuning as well, but find it works better in the studio, especially with Big Fat Snare Drum products. And with BFSD stuff you really don't have to tune so low - the BFSD products lower the pitch for you.
Hi I see that you have a maple extra which are the thick shells: do you have a video where you give your thoughts on the matter? The more I'm searching into drum shells infos/theories , the more I I find contradictions! .. Thick shells seem to be good after all it seems! (After more than 25 years of ultra thin shells promoted by all brands!!)
This is something I run into a lot at gigs. A lot of gigs I play don't close mic the toms and I like rock deep sounds and what I'm hearing isn't what the floor hears but I'm nervous to tune up and lose the kind of tone I'm going for
Have you listened to recordings of your shows? I've found this can change my whole perception of how a particular tone I'm going for should be executed in live venues. Of course, in the studio environment this happens all the time, but it's also true on stage, and it doesn't matter too much that the recording may come from a cellular phone's microphone. In fact, in some ways it's preferable to a FOH console feed.
Great video as usual. I find that most gigs I’m doing only the bass drum is mic’ed up and when I do lower tunings they get lost in the mix of other instruments so I’ve tuned them higher even though it might not be “ correct” in the style of music in this case it would be playing Motown, Funk, Philly Soul Disco. Would you suggest using one ply heads and then tuning them a bit lower. I liked the sound of say a head like Evans G14 which is a thicker single ply head but it gets lost in the audience. What do you suggest?
Ah, that’s the challenge. When I play mics are never involved. And, I play swing era music. I keep wondering if these sounds are at all appropriate for the the style of music I play? I keep remembering an article I read about how loose swing era drummers tuned.
Great video (again...thanks guys) but the main "bump" I encounter when tuning my toms low, is the lugs. When I get to a pitch that I like oftentimes, the lugs have hardly any tension and they come undone pretty fast, even by hand. Do i need to use longer lugs to achieve a low tension without risking then to get loose? Any tips here? Thx
Glad you enjoyed it! It sounds like you may be trying to tune lower than your drums can go and you’d benefit from taking the approach demonstrated here. Thicker heads (more mass) may help as well. In the end, you may just need to use larger drums to hit those lower tunings. Cheers!
I did a gig this past saturday,back line drum set,foh.was ok on the kick,the reso and batter heads were at wri kle only,had a hard time ,on.kick.no rebound ,no tone,sloppy feel. Please give some input
I often tune the toms super low when kids are playing the kit so that the drums have a limited dynamic range. It kinda puts guard rails up for the kids because they’re likely to play too loud and muddy up the mix when playing with other musicians. I find deadening the kit and even muting cymbals can help kids sound better when they don’t have a lot of experience.
@@robsco1249 If it works for you, who are we to say that it's "wrong"? Our general approach is to determine what the music and physical space requires for a sound and tune for that. Sometimes that means tuning high without muffling, sometimes it's a medium tuning with lots of resonance, sometimes it's low with a bit of muffling, or anything in between. We like to think of drum sounds and context similarly to how we think of dynamics; you can't always play the same volume for every situation.
Most of the gigs I play, High tuning is more problematic than low. I've played a shared backline kit recently that was tuned too high, and when one of my songs involved riding the floor tom, the mid-range completely overpowered the mix. The owner of the kit used Big Fat Snare drum type things which worked fine, but he took them away when everyone else played, and the drums sounds just awful. I rarely play anywhere without close-mics, other than rehearsals.
It's true! Bigger drums will help project a lower fundamental. But then there's also the tradeoff of the space they take up and still the issues of how much a drummer can really occupy of the low-frequency spectrum.
@@SoundsLikeADrum to be fair my perspective is entirely as a bedroom producer so my sound aims are about how they'll sound recorded, and I can justEQ the low of the kit and the bass to play nice together, or even use something like a midi-controlled notch that moves around to carve whatever the bass note is at the time out of the drums, super useful.
As a long-time drum builder, tech, and consultant on drum technology, I can say, with almost 100% certainty, that FAR too many drummers, including MOST of them here on TH-cam, even people who are knowledgeable, ARE tuning their drums WAY too low! Most 4pc kits I listen to sound like BOOM-SPLAT-THUD-THUD. It may sound great BEHIND the kit, but what is being projected is more or less just muddy, garbage tone. In order to get some REAL resonance, you have to get some kinetic energy going, and that is by tuning the head a decent amount HIGHER than the "wet-noodle" stage. Once you do THAT and get them to "sing" a bit, THEN you can experiment with muffling. Now, if you are going for the serious 70's sound in the studio (and I grew up in that era, so I know), then you may be on the right track. Back then, the "bump" of analog tape, plus compression, and EQ, made THOSE drums FAT, but man, they sounded AND felt like shit when you played them. "Higher tuning" and "Bebop" tuning do NOT mean the same thing! But for God's sake, people need to understand how those under-tuned drums are PROJECTING first. You cannot effective project any resonance, and they DON'T sound "like cannons" (my favorite misnomer)! They sound like oversized couch cushions. 🙄
Nine times out of ten, drums in shops, on TH-cam, or elsewhere I feel are too low in tuning. All drums, no matter the brand, end up sounding the same when tuned too low. Tuned up, differences in shell design and tonal character come out. Plus, it’s so much easier to play drums tuned up.
Tunning too low is what a lot of rock and metal players does, and they are totally lost in the mix. Tunning too low will not make your kit sounds good . Clear ambassador and great semi tight tunning is the way to go. I have seen too many drummer with high end drums tunning too low and heard shitty drums sounds way better
@@jesusguardon As with. most tech, there's definitely a tasteful way to use it and then, well, the other way to use it. Not quite sure what it has to do with this episode though...
![“Fixing” Your Snare Sound [Step by Step] | Season Five, Episode 40](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xosBfmxmm40/mqdefault.jpg)
Articulate, systematic, concise and calm. A refined gentleman. Easily the best drum channel on TH-cam. You’re a champion in the community. Thank you and keep doing what you do.
As a recording engineer/producer, I always encourage drummers to tune their drums way higher than they would typically. It just gives the kit so much more room to work within the mix, and lets each tom sit in it's own spot. I see drummers with 5 toms, all tuned super low, and they do a fill but it sounds like one or two toms because they are all tuned so low the articulation and color of each drum is lost.
As a drummer, I tune my kit as low as it'll go. haha.
This is so, so true!
Right! I've heard 7 piece kits where all toms sound the same, and I've heard 4 piece kits that sound much much larger.
Hilarious!
I’m the opposite, it is incredibly difficult for me to mix drums with a lot of sustain and tuned so high
@@queenpurple8433 can be easier or harder depending on the genre, and your approach to mixing, and the type of sound you’re going for.
I’ve always tuned my drums considerably higher than I think I should because of the distance/depth relationship. Never judge your kit sound by how it sounds from sitting behind it because it almost always lies to you!! 😂
Bingo!
I used to default to low tunings, but then I discovered (through this channel) that a bigger drum at higher tension gives the same pitch, but sounds so much bigger.
I then fell in love with the feeling of hitting a drum and feeling the shell vibrate because it's sending the energy out
It just feels so much bigger when i do that than when i was trying low tunings
this is so true!
In the studio I used 24-14-18 tuned medium but my own kit is only 22-13-16 and it just won't get to a similar sound to feeling ratio the bigger shells had.
But 2 inches is a lot of space in the back of a car so I probably stick to the smaller shells :)
The problem is: I like the pitch of my 18" and 20" floor toms when they are tuned low. What the hell am i supposed to do? Move the 18 and 20s up and use 22 and 24's as floor toms?
@@hannes1734 i mean, there's nothing stopping you if you wanted to
I guess a question I might ask is, are you wanting that tone *and* projection of the sound?
Im of course asking this assuming you're going to have minimal mics if any
I used to tune low to get that “big rock sound”, only to find out that, on live recordings and when a friend of mine played my drums, it got completely lost in the mix and I achieved the opposite of what I wanted :)
Nowadays I tune for maximum resonance and a full open tone. Maybe a bit to high from behind the drums, but it sounds great in a full band mix.
Great advice on the stick tips! Experiment with different shapes and sizes of tips, as well as types of wood, length and weight.
Even though I am happy with my collection of different sticks and brushes for different venues, I still practice with different pairs of them on my heads and cymbals. There are so many different sounds from the same tuning of heads. "One size does not fit all." Always be open to change. I'm 75 years old and I've been playing since I was 15 years old, and I am still learning! Enjoy the trip.
YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!! Man, thank you!!! 🙌 I will be sending this video all around!
I learned long ago that in the case of sound size matters. If you want the sound of a deep 18", you need an 18" not 16" tuned low. With companies going to 10, 12 and 14 instead of 12, 13 and 16 it means we have to get used to higher pitches or start buying larger drums again.
Nice playing. Thank you for sharing. Happy Drumming!
Hi Algo,
Don't know why YT suggested you to me (drum aren't my thing), but I'm glad: you are doing an awesome job! Thank you for sharing your unique perspective.
Bye, Rithm
Thanks for watching anyway!
Talking about e-rings and muffling that's why I started (and keep) using Remo powerstroke 4, which are basically double ply heads with a pre-installed ring. It helps me use a higher tuning and getting a lower tone and I prefer them rather than unmuffled 2 ply heads
I always tuned low. For big, fat sound. With bad ears, and little to no reference pitches. I was tuning "flat" of any notes. Bringing them up in pitch, setting right on the the notes F#, D#, B (Hi-Lo) made a huge difference..
Thanks for "talking shop". You always have great suggestions and info for any drummer. 😊
Every show I did in the 80’s with standard depth Tom’s med tuning and high on the snare got me tons of compliments. All the other kits sounded like mud and didn’t cut through.
Great presentation and content..as usual. Thanks so much SLD..
Thank you so much for this video, guys!
I've been strugling for some years looking for for a beefie sound from the snare drum and geting frustrated by the difference on the sound that i hear on the kit and the sound recorded from the audience.
The room, close and overhead mics perspective just blowed my mind and made me understand what's happening with my situation.
The insights about the musical situations, stages and situtations that i am playing.
Again: Thank you so much!
This is the episode I was waiting for. Eventhough I already figured most of it out by myself it is always interesting to hear how you guys deal with issues.
Cody, love the way you tune your Toms. Notwithstanding EQs and Mics, I never hear that annoying ringing overtones. I'M only a recreational drummer, at 71 yo retired guy, who resurrected playing drums after 50 Years. I watch your videos with earnest Learning To Fly , in the words of Tom Petty. I never knew anything about tuning my drums 50 years ago, and now learning about the art of tuning and different heads. I love the Doooo, Doooo sound that Jared at DRUMEO talks about. I still have not engaged putting cotton balls in my floor toms , you mentioned in other videos of tuning tricks. I use Evans E-Rings on 4 of the Toms in my kit ( 8, 10, 12 inch rack toms & 14 and 16 inch floor toms) ; but not on the 8 inch tom. I am using G2s coated batter heads on all the Toms Except the 10 inch Tom, where i use a EC2 Clear. My biggest challenge is getting to that Sweet Spot of desireable sound from the 12 inch Tom? The ec2 sounds grossly too plasticky on this drum, and the G2 Coated , just ot there? I have a PDP Concept Maple kit purchased used in 2021 via Guitar center which upgraded from a cheapo Gammon kit that I ga e to my 5 year old grandson. Keep up your terrific videos.
Great to hear that you’re still playing! Here’s to 25+ more years!
I figured the higher tuning projection thing out by close micing the kit and playing it through a live pa. To high gets thin though. Playing through a live pa helps you understand the physics between the drum mics and room. Hours of experimental fun.
Back in the old days, I tuned my heads really low because I thought it sounded powerful and cool. But I got so tired of denting my heads. Also, I started listening to drummers who played with more finesse, and it seemed to me that they were all tuning their toms much higher. I liked the articulation possible with higher-tuned heads, and now that's pretty much how I approach tuning now. A 16x16 floor tom can still have a lot of depth, even if there's enough tension on the heads for decent doubles. I'm a hobbyist now, and I tune my heads however I want.
great lesson
I use Remo coated vintage emperors on my tom batter heads with remo clear emperors on the resonant side. 15mill on top (2 ply 7.5mill) and 14 mill on bottom(2 ply 7 mill). Low tuning and a little dampening really gives you a fat thuddy tom sound. Dampening on top head might be gaff tape or moongel. I'll use a small piece of cheesecloth inside the drum that bounces off the resonant head to kill excess resonance. Acts like a gate in mixing. Comes in handy in a pinch depending on the situation.
Tom sizes diameter/depth: 8"x7", 12"x9", 16"x14", and 18"x16". Vater Power 5B for sticks (nice fat barrel tip).
I love the discussion of tuning to your context - I’d like to add that many drummers (especially ones who came up in the 90’s) tune their snares waaaay to HIGH. Everyone loves a good cracking snare with lots of “cut”… until it’s too much.
This past Sunday I was at a festival, and the drummer was playing his good, cracking snare, and un-mic’d it was hitting around 110dbA… at the back of the tent, 60’ away. 😮
It was completely out of balance with the rest of his kit, and resulted in a horrible (and painful) mix in the room.
I used to tune very low but then I realized how much better the open and resonant voice of the drum sounded to the mics and to the room, how much more attack I could get and a better feel when I tuned the drums way to the high mid range. Never looked back with my Tama Superstar Maple Custom kit.
Well done gentleman.
Great video as always! I'm definitely guilty of tuning my drums too low, so the input is much appreciated. Especially tuning higher, but applying more muffling - I'll be sure to try this the next time I use my own drums at a gig.
Very useful, I recently made this adjustment and can only recommend it for rock and metal. Cuts much more, the presence in the room is better and mics love it.
Loved the Vultures groove at the end! Can't mention insanely low tuning without reference to that snare.
Alright I'm going to try tuning my two floor toms and bass drum up a bit now. Might tighten the rack toms a bit, too, but I'll see after raising the floor toms
I love to use TrueVibe isolation mounts on my floor tom, with a SnareWeight M80 on the batter head. It's only a 14" drum, but the isolation mounts give me a full, round tone & the M80 controls the length of the tone, so I get some articulation. For me, Evans EC2S heads really help to complete the sound, as I find them easy to tune to a moderately low pitch. For the other drums (usually 10" & 12"), I tend to keep them in a medium pitch range, & if I need a lower rack tom sound, I swap my 10-inch tom for a 13-inch.
i have my drums tuned very low. i get a wide frequency range because my toms aren't 12 ,13, and 16. i use 8, 10, 13, and 16. i prefer it this way because my 8 sounds higher than a 10 that has been cranked and it doesn't sound choked. i'm past the point of playing out, so that's not really an issue i've run into (my drums projecting). the heads have lasted long. so long that i'm reluctant to say how long they've been on the set. they still give me everything i want when i'm recording. plenty of attack and a full tone. they still sing. i'm using a 2-ply coated head on the tops and a single ply clear on bottoms. the one compromise i am making is the feel, there's very little rebound off these toms, but it's not something i look for from a tom. my snare gets tuned up a little so that, with the snares off, it is one step higher than my 8 in tom.
it's not for everyone, but for me, it translates to the sound i want to hear both behind the kit and on recordings.
I use double ply under my floor tom awesome you should try it thanks for your awesome info🥁🥁🤟🏼🇨🇦
Two-ply floor tom batters are an excellent way to go! Cheers!
I always tuned my Luwig drums too low and i never got that sound that I was chasing, until recently i tuned them higher and damn everything changed big time.
I can't tell you much I needed these tips. In the last year ive really dove into drumming and recording my drums again. and everything you said is what I was doing wrong ha. I did just did not realize how low I was tuning my drums. just in the last month I started going a bit higher and had DRAMATIC night and day difference recording in my small project studio. Also I love that you let us hear every type of mic set up! Being able to hear each one. Overheads, rooms, and close mics only was so helpful, because I could not figure out why I was getting so much bottom snare sound in all of my mics and when I heard your room mics, I was like omg thats it. Please keep doing that!
The whole thing about the drum tone not carrying to the room mics! That just blew my mind!
Love the Big Fat Snare Drum 💪
Very important topic! Also the fact that a higher tuned will sound louder (acoustic) than a low tuned kit. Which is important to consider if you bring your low tuned kit (optimized for mic'ed settings) to an acoustic or minimal mic'ed situation. Your toms and kick will not project very much, like the difference between the close mics and ambient mics in this video illustrates.
Also I find with a low tunes snare, maybe dampened with an e-ring or BFD, that because the top head is low and dampened, the top head to bottom head/snare wires ratio gets messed up. So dampening the bottom head with a Snarepal or something similar will be necessesary for the snare wires to not overpower the low tone of your top head.
I have long held the belief that there is a current generation of drummers who tune their drums too low. I am 60 and have been playing for 49 years. So I grew up with the big band drummers and moved into the late 60's and early 70's rock drummers (especially from England) who also grew up on American jazz/big band drummers. As a result, I have always tuned my drums higher.
The air moves faster, the pitch is fuller, the projection is stronger, the rebound is much more helpful, and they just feel better.
I see drummers who use the approach of just getting the wrinkles out and going for the lowest fundamental possible. And then to make it worse, put moon gel or tape on them or use pinstripes or other muted heads. Are you kidding?? Might was well play on a pillow. I can't stand that sound!!
Bonham is often sighted as having heavy drums. Yes, they were but not because of lower tuning. Exactly the opposite. We know he tuned his drums like a big band drummer. But he used big drums and that made a huge difference in the low end that can be delivered. But they were very clean and projected like crazy.
The drum that is being impacted the most by this low tuning ideal is the bass drum. It becomes a dead and dynamically limited drum. You owe it to yourself to play with the tension and get it into a higher than comfortable range. Also, please if you can, record it out front of your kit. You might be surprised how much more powerful the drum can sound and how much easier it is to play as well.
I'm a recreational drummer who at 71 yo, retired, plays drums about 1hour a day to My Music. Other than sports, playing drums provides a nice hobby and pleasure in the Golden Years. I typically enjoy that PHAT tom sounds, but after reading your comments and this watching video I am being convinced to tune the drums a bit higher. I do muffle the drums except the snares with Evans E-Rings. My biggest challenge is my health. Lots of spinal arthritis, lumbar, neck, and in my hips , knees, and now encroaching into my hands / thumbs. Which leads to the best tip of the day for all........ drink lots of water, I never did and paid the price for that. Your spinal discs are 80% Water. Pzy attention to your body, i didnt until it was too late . On a more happy note, I am so proud to be able to play an instrument . Happy Drumming.
Full and unequivocal agreement with everything you said!
Well put and totally correct! 🥁🥁🥁
I'm currently in a progressive metal band, and shortly after I joined, the vocalist kept asking why I tuned my toms so high? I'm a 3 up 1 down guy and like some melody to my toms, and as soon as we got into a larger room to play a show, he was amazed at how the overtones disappeared at a distance, and the volume carried more than toms with lower tunings.
Regarding muffling, a friend of mine uses a 5mm thick Van Kleef bronze snare that St.Anger's like hell in small spaces, but sounds kind of dry outside.
Loudest snare I've ever heard, and he refused to muffle it until a sound engineer just completely gave up when trying to sound check him once.
Your kit sounds like the mahogany gretsch 1up2down setup I have in my garage diy studio. My favorite sound by far. This summer in texas tho, I’ve have more outdoor gigs than ever, especially with little to no mic’ing, and I’ve been forced to completely rethink how I tune & setup the drums I gig with. I have even gone so far as to buy my first Non-wooden snare just to have more consistent tuning outdoors with the crazy humidity. This video could not have come at a more relevant time for me. Thanks as always for the superb content!!
I use gigantic drums (30, 22, 18, 13) tuned up higher than a regularly tuned drum kit.
It feels great to play and allows my bandmates to use as many 100+ watt amps as they want without overpowering the drums. They get noise complaints and I have to squeeze them into my SUV, but oh well I can live with that
I always used to tune my drums really low as they sounded great behind the kit until I heard a recording of a gig and they sounded dreadful, I now always tune them well higher, really weird they sound so different in front of the kit !!
I love E rings and would use them more often, but one mis-judgement and you've torn it off with the tip of your stick. Also, they always go missing and it's really had to keep them in pristine condition on the road, which they need to be or they don't work correctly. I'd love a solution of like little clips on the hoop that keep them in place, because when you tape them on they don't behave quite the same way. I love the sound, but they're annoying to deal with in all other aspects lol.
I always use to inadverdently get crimps or a fold on my o rings. Instead of tossing it i took scissors and cut out the bad part. Sometimes it's even better cut up!
I can really relate to this video! Thanks ,. I will try mid to hight tunning,.. I always afraid that my floor Tom do not sounds like a mounted tomb
On the room mic, the unmuffled low tuned toms sound like pretty much like they have only one head. Also, when I use more than one E-ring it makes a lower pitch than with one E-ring, so I think along with the dampened overtones it lowers the pitch by slowing the vibration of the head to some degree.
I use a low snare batter head tuning a LOT in smaller rooms with let's say, "less than ideal" acoustics. Yes, I know you love Neil Peart's Snare drum sound, I do too, but when you're playing in effectively a discount-Buffalo Wild Wings, that sound isn't going to work. Every snare hit is going to tear everyone's heads off, and the rest of your band might as well go home because that (and cymbals) is all you're going to hear. Whereas if you drop the tuning and muffle it, it'll bring it back in to the realm of manageable in smaller, overly reflective rooms, which let's face it that's where we're going to be playing the majority of our gigs.
It works ESPECIALLY well if you employ my "Snare Skirt" trick. You take a black towel (approx 2x4ft) fold it in half so it's 2x2, then drape it from the bottom hoop of your snare drum, so it reduces how much of the bottom head gets projected out into the audience by a substantial amount, it reduces the overall volume and "presence" of the live snare in the room by nearly 50%. The beauty is though, that there's an gap on the back side, so it's open to the drummer, so he still hears the bottom head basically like normal. The result is a "duller" sound out front, but it's 1,000% worth it to compromise the tone of 1 out of 16+ inputs to improve everything else significantly. I recommend you all give it a try in those situations. I also give Cory (or any other drum channel for that matter) full permission to make a video about that. The more drummers that hear about this trick, the better for everyone!
But how do you "drape" it?
@@offshoretomorrow3346 When we first tried it we sort of wedged it around the rim of the bottom hoop, between that and the 2 "petals" for the snare stand. But now, we got some 1-inch fabric strips with a little alligator clip, hanging from the tension rods.
But the first way totally works with nothing but a towel and some clever wedging, just since we adopted it to more of a long terms solution, we got the clips on amazon for like 6 bucks so deploying it is much less tedious and annoying, and takes less time.
I use 2 ply on top and bottom tuned unison at a decent tension. I'm getting a pretty decent boomy sound.
@guanabarasound for more at our side. Please run some outdoors episodes, maybe revisitng the basics, or first seasons. It will be a really help for those following, at least indeed for drummers jumping for the room to the stage! Best sounds, ALLWAYS.
E-rings are amazing, and the only go-to muffling that I use. I tend to tune this low in church environments on purpose, to minimize stage volume, and maximize close mic tone. I find it can help with volume complaints.
Except for the Snare, I usually play on handtightened Evans genera Dry HD (the resos are also handtightened), bc our sound guy doesn't want any overtones in the drum sound. Might be a bit extreme, but it's great for recording 😉
Why not just muffle them
I like the effect of low tuned toms, I just don't like the actual sound, if that makes sense. Increasing the interval between heads to a fourth or fifth helps get back some of the sound I like, i.e. less boom and a little more attack.
awesome lesson
+soundslikeadrum *Heavier heads will impose a reasonable stress on the lugs at lower tunings.* I'm awaiting release of an EVANS®/D'Addario® B10HW Heavyweight Coated Reverse Dot to complement the B12HW, B13HW, and B14HW already in production, due to unique tuning needs for Shinoda Hall, OMS Japanese Christian. (I've shortlisted BD22EMADHW batter and BD22GB4CT resonant for the kick, TT10G12/TT12G12/TT14G12 tom resonants, and B14UV2 batter and S14R50 snare-side for the center drum.)
Good video ! It reminds me not to cross the line in to the low- tuning-zero-response-minimal-tone-dimension !
We pay for the tone, we may as well hear it!
I've definitely been guilty of tuning my drums a little to low, especially my 14 inch floor tom. Sometimes though, in a smaller room, a lower tuned snare drum seems to allow me to hit a little more freely without projecting to much. But with the floor tom I've definitely been experimenting with a tighter and higher tunings. Especially when I was having trouble playing a 4 stoke ruff to end a song. Heh heh! 🥁❤️
Hey John, I'm only a recreational 71 yo, drummer. I play solely to My Music about 1 hour a day. I resurrected playing after 50 Years (1969) for enjoyment / retirement. I hope to keep playing until my arthritic conditions limit me. I too have difficulty with my Floor Toms (14 & 16 Inch) - Maple Drum kit. One tip I found is to use Evans E-Rings which Muffles the drums (I use them on my 10 &12 Inch Rack Toms too - but not a the 8 Inch Tom). I use Evnas G2s coated batter heads on all the Toms except for the 10 inch TOm using a Evans EC2 Clear and the E-Ring. As this video and many others show that Tuning is an Art which I knew nothing about when I first started in 1966 [Thanks to Ringo and Charlie Watts ]. I like the Rumble tone of the Floors but not when there is too much Overtone. Gotta try those Cotton Balls in the drum technique. Happy Drumming.
@@Chiroman527 thanks for the advice. I too use the rings on my toms. Especially in some of the smaller rooms that I play. But I do want to try the cotton balls. I think they,along with tuning a little bit higher, might do the trick. Hopefully I'll be able to keep drumming as long as possible. I'm 58 now and hope to be playing into my 70s like you. Thanks for reaching out and keep on keeping on! 🥁❤️
Without even watching this episode, I can tell the answer is yes. I just played a show where there was a house kit provided. A beautiful DW kit. It was tuned so low it was all attack and no tone, but I didn't change it because it belonged to the drummer for The last band to play. I also used the snare drum that was a very upscale custom drum and it sounded awful. It was used by the previous drummer and it was out of tune it was tuned way too low had no tone definition. Wires were over cranked. I fid chznge that. My old ludwigs and superphonic tuned to itself as well as tuned to the kit sounds better than any of this high-end stuff. Now. I will watch.
I tune super low but i''ve been starting to realize that the drums don't speak well in the room. This video reinforced that notion. The big red flag for me that started me thinking about tuning higher was I had my 12 and 14 sounding great, nice and low and punchy, but I can't tune the 16 low enough to sound the same as the other toms. I'm going to start tuning the high toms higher so the 16 can be more musical.
Tip, tune from big too small, start with your floor or even better kick and work your way up to the smallest tom.
Excellent content and nice timing! I've been struggling lately with live tom sounds. The 500 - 1000 seaters we've been playing all have massive subs in the PA, and my normal ambassadors on the toms were not working. The tone was good up close, but those subs would get the toms ringing and ringing. So much that the engineer was having to gate them 🤢.
Went to clear emperors and tuned them a little up, and the resos a tad lower. I can usually get away with little or no muffling now if the PA is tuned right. Otherwise, a little tape, a snareweight or a zero ring will work fine, depending on how much muffling I need.
Really could've used this video a month ago 😆!
Used to have (as most drummers probably have done in 90's and seeing Peart and Gadd use them) was hydrolic heads. They do have a deeper note to them fundamentally, but then I grew out of that phase because wanted more tone. But tuning a larger drum a bit higher I have to try, never thought about it having same pitch.
I used to play Gretsch concert toms with Evans hydraulic blue heads in the 70's absolutely no tone at all when I listen now, they sounded dreadful!!
This is an excellent video. I’ve noticed that I’ve always need to tune slightly higher than the Just Above Wrinkle method in order to get projection. I didn’t realize smaller beads on the drum sticks reduces the life of the head. But damn I love the small tips for jazz playing.
Check out John Von Ohlen’s tuning. Quite low, and quite effective.
I'm looking to get a new kit. I want 3 toms on top and I can't decide the sizes. I've done 8, 10, and 12 in the past. But I kinda want to do 10, 12, 13 or 14. any opinions?
I had read somewhere to always keep them 2" apart because you'll need it for pitch separation. I didn't know 20 years ago when I bought my kit. So when I tune my 14 and 15 in toms to the drums sweet spot they sound exactly the same.
As a result the 14 gets tuned a little higher than it likes and the 15 a little lower than it likes to achieve the tonal separation.
@@goodtimejohnny8972 for sure. another thing im looking into is having the top toms shorter so they can be lower to the bass drum and more flat. I was told that if drums are shorter they're not as loud. true?
@@paddyDeeful I don't think so. Think of a marching band. The drum line has quads and sometimes quints that cut through an entire band with brass and woodwinds. So in my opinion shallow drums are just as loud as the deeper shells. The tuning won't go as low on a shallower tom though, that is why rock guys had deep toms at an extreme angle above the kick. Bigger the drum lower the note, smaller the drum higher the note.
@@goodtimejohnny8972 Thanks John. This has all been very helpful. 🙏🔥
If you’re in the studio and you want a different sound medium or low or useing o-rings. or recreate the 70’s sound.
Big drums tuned high is where it's at for loudness, power, stick rebound, projection, better sound in front of the kit and thru the PA. Resonant heads tuned higher than batter heads, Emperor over Emperor or Emperor over Ambassador. Not a new thing at all - the Bonham approach, essentially. I dig the thuddy, low JAW tuning as well, but find it works better in the studio, especially with Big Fat Snare Drum products. And with BFSD stuff you really don't have to tune so low - the BFSD products lower the pitch for you.
Hi
I see that you have a maple extra which are the thick shells: do you have a video where you give your thoughts on the matter?
The more I'm searching into drum shells infos/theories , the more I I find contradictions!
.. Thick shells seem to be good after all it seems! (After more than 25 years of ultra thin shells promoted by all brands!!)
This is something I run into a lot at gigs. A lot of gigs I play don't close mic the toms and I like rock deep sounds and what I'm hearing isn't what the floor hears but I'm nervous to tune up and lose the kind of tone I'm going for
Have you listened to recordings of your shows? I've found this can change my whole perception of how a particular tone I'm going for should be executed in live venues. Of course, in the studio environment this happens all the time, but it's also true on stage, and it doesn't matter too much that the recording may come from a cellular phone's microphone. In fact, in some ways it's preferable to a FOH console feed.
Great video as usual. I find that most gigs I’m doing only the bass drum is mic’ed up and when I do lower tunings they get lost in the mix of other instruments so I’ve tuned them higher even though it might not be “ correct” in the style of music in this case it would be playing Motown, Funk, Philly Soul Disco. Would you suggest using one ply heads and then tuning them a bit lower. I liked the sound of say a head like Evans G14 which is a thicker single ply head but it gets lost in the audience. What do you suggest?
im about to go crank my toms up and slap some moongels on.
Ah, that’s the challenge. When I play mics are never involved. And, I play swing era music. I keep wondering if these sounds are at all appropriate for the the style of music I play?
I keep remembering an article I read about how loose swing era drummers tuned.
Great video (again...thanks guys) but the main "bump" I encounter when tuning my toms low, is the lugs. When I get to a pitch that I like oftentimes, the lugs have hardly any tension and they come undone pretty fast, even by hand. Do i need to use longer lugs to achieve a low tension without risking then to get loose? Any tips here? Thx
Glad you enjoyed it! It sounds like you may be trying to tune lower than your drums can go and you’d benefit from taking the approach demonstrated here. Thicker heads (more mass) may help as well. In the end, you may just need to use larger drums to hit those lower tunings. Cheers!
I did a gig this past saturday,back line drum set,foh.was ok on the kick,the reso and batter heads were at wri kle only,had a hard time ,on.kick.no rebound ,no tone,sloppy feel. Please give some input
A good thing to try is, when the heads are near floppy, don't hit super hard.
What about Mario from Gojira or Derek Roddy? They tune extremly low
I often tune the toms super low when kids are playing the kit so that the drums have a limited dynamic range. It kinda puts guard rails up for the kids because they’re likely to play too loud and muddy up the mix when playing with other musicians. I find deadening the kit and even muting cymbals can help kids sound better when they don’t have a lot of experience.
Medium top and bottom to have the maximum resonance... that's what I do and like.
Regardless of context?
@@SoundsLikeADrum yes...but I have moongels with me if there are some problems. Do you think I am wrong?
@@robsco1249 If it works for you, who are we to say that it's "wrong"? Our general approach is to determine what the music and physical space requires for a sound and tune for that. Sometimes that means tuning high without muffling, sometimes it's a medium tuning with lots of resonance, sometimes it's low with a bit of muffling, or anything in between. We like to think of drum sounds and context similarly to how we think of dynamics; you can't always play the same volume for every situation.
Most of the gigs I play, High tuning is more problematic than low. I've played a shared backline kit recently that was tuned too high, and when one of my songs involved riding the floor tom, the mid-range completely overpowered the mix. The owner of the kit used Big Fat Snare drum type things which worked fine, but he took them away when everyone else played, and the drums sounds just awful. I rarely play anywhere without close-mics, other than rehearsals.
How were the resos tuned. Were they “gut bucket low” too? 🤣
Higher than the batters but still quite low.
wish it wasn't hell to find 20" floor toms. a bigger diameter makes a given pitch behave better for so many reasons
It's true! Bigger drums will help project a lower fundamental. But then there's also the tradeoff of the space they take up and still the issues of how much a drummer can really occupy of the low-frequency spectrum.
@@SoundsLikeADrum to be fair my perspective is entirely as a bedroom producer so my sound aims are about how they'll sound recorded, and I can justEQ the low of the kit and the bass to play nice together, or even use something like a midi-controlled notch that moves around to carve whatever the bass note is at the time out of the drums, super useful.
As a long-time drum builder, tech, and consultant on drum technology, I can say, with almost 100% certainty, that FAR too many drummers, including MOST of them here on TH-cam, even people who are knowledgeable, ARE tuning their drums WAY too low! Most 4pc kits I listen to sound like BOOM-SPLAT-THUD-THUD. It may sound great BEHIND the kit, but what is being projected is more or less just muddy, garbage tone. In order to get some REAL resonance, you have to get some kinetic energy going, and that is by tuning the head a decent amount HIGHER than the "wet-noodle" stage. Once you do THAT and get them to "sing" a bit, THEN you can experiment with muffling. Now, if you are going for the serious 70's sound in the studio (and I grew up in that era, so I know), then you may be on the right track. Back then, the "bump" of analog tape, plus compression, and EQ, made THOSE drums FAT, but man, they sounded AND felt like shit when you played them. "Higher tuning" and "Bebop" tuning do NOT mean the same thing! But for God's sake, people need to understand how those under-tuned drums are PROJECTING first. You cannot effective project any resonance, and they DON'T sound "like cannons" (my favorite misnomer)! They sound like oversized couch cushions. 🙄
Nine times out of ten, drums in shops, on TH-cam, or elsewhere I feel are too low in tuning. All drums, no matter the brand, end up sounding the same when tuned too low. Tuned up, differences in shell design and tonal character come out. Plus, it’s so much easier to play drums tuned up.
I've found I have to to tune up to brighten up, you get too low it gets flappy
Say bye to high.
Promark SD1
I find it annoying to hear floor-toms tuned so low that they go "BARFFFF" rather than "BOUMMMM".
Nope!
I've tuned my drums "up" since the 90's. I like my toms to "cut".
Tunning too low is what a lot of rock and metal players does, and they are totally lost in the mix. Tunning too low will not make your kit sounds good . Clear ambassador and great semi tight tunning is the way to go. I have seen too many drummer with high end drums tunning too low and heard shitty drums sounds way better
@me :/
Ah yes. Low tuned drums, downtuned guitars. The murderers of nuance and musicality.
Ead10
???
A real crap of device that new drummers are using thinking they sound cool, but the truth is they sound all the same crushed and compressed like hell
@@jesusguardon As with. most tech, there's definitely a tasteful way to use it and then, well, the other way to use it. Not quite sure what it has to do with this episode though...
Sorry but there is nothing like American made drums from the 60s and 70s. Ludwig, Gretsch, Camco, Rogers or Slingerland.
Agreed. Except maybe some of the MIJ drums from the same time period but yes.