I run into the "watching too many drum tuning videos but not actually trying my own method" issue. This channel is literally the reason why I tell people "hey bro, if you can't tune your kit, don't ask me, but check these guys out." I'm still on the line of either not overthinking tuning or digging deep down into the science of tuning. That being said, I personally think people focus too much on the head's surface when muffling, but internal muffling can actually be far more beneficial in the sound their imagining. Y'all made the whole cotton balls in toms video, as well has hanging a shirt inside the drum without actually messing with the drum heads. I've gotten unbelievable results from those videos, and I still think internal muffling is an underrated practice.
Your knowledge, skills, and ability to explain these concepts about drum tuning are some of the best on TH-cam! If I could add one little nugget that helps me when I am tuning, I use one hand(right) to turn the drum key and my left hand has a stick and I tap between every turn to listen to what changes, every action has a reaction. I do the same thing when I am eq-ing or making changes with a process like compression in terms of production, I make sure I hear what the changes are while it's playing, and not when I can't hear the results in real time. Keep em coming!!
What I really like on this channel is, that you never get dogmatic in any direction. Listeners have to think it over and match the information with their own special situation. I wished we had this intention also in other aspects of life, especially when it comes to political/ideological pressure situations like we face today.
Cody, I am late to this party on Drum Tuning. I have seen many others by you as a subscriber. I may have posted this "weird" event elsewhere, so forgive me. I have been struggling to Tune a DW Design series Nickel over Brass 14 X 6.5 snare for awhile now. HD Dry batter head, stock clear reso head, standard wires. I replaced the batter head a few weeks ago and have fooled with the tuning since. I have not been able to get to that "sweet" sound I was looking for. In frustration late week, I placed the DW snare on my 16 inch Floor tom and played my PDP Maple snare (also with a HD dry head). While playing, doing a fill, I hit the DW snare sitting on the Floor Tom. Bingo.... That was the Sound, the Ludwig Suprphonic sound (the Jon Bonham sound), I was looking for !! Take the Snare off, it was not the same? Put it back and it was great. As posters on drum forums have told me - maybe You invented a New Snare Stand? One poster said that I was playing 2 Drums simultaneously ! it ws recommednded to chnage the batter head to a UV 1; I did and to my ear, played worse. Any ideas ? BTW, the Floor Tom is 16 X 14 (deep) and has G2 coated batter head.
The tunebot discussion is very good, it reminds me of this whole cymbal weight obsession (in grams no less!) You simply cannot tell what a cymbal is going to sound like by weight. You have to play it, in person.
I do agree with some of your post but, with regard to cymbal weight, I do find that knowing the grams helps me zero in on cymbals that I am more likely to find pleasing to me. I generally like heavy cymbals (22 inches, 3,000 grams and up seems to be my sweet spot for rides, and I like bottom hats of 1400 grams and up) and, based on experience, lighter crashes and rides mostly do not have the cut that I am looking for. I am also a fan of playing things in person (I LOVE to just wander around my local drum store and just try things out), but I seldom end up picking something that is way out of my typical preferences. So, for me, cymbal weight is a good way to go through the choices in some instances .....
@@jasonb2180 Its nothing but a marketing tool, and a misleading one... I've been playing since the early 70s, I even still have a few old Zildjian and Paiste catalogs from the 80s... and I NEVER saw any marketing with weights--other than they usual "heavy," "fast," "thin" or other usual monikers like that (which also didn't always mean much). Weights were not printed on any of the 200+ cymbals I have owned over the last 48 years, at least not until the last 5-8 years.... they were not written about in magazines, talked about between drummers, asked for in music stores, producers never asked me to bring a cymbal of a certain weight in grams... only in more general terms, brighter, darker, a particular brand, etc. And since this whole weight thing got faddish, I have not heard any sort of consistency of "good" or "bad" sounding cymbals that correlates towards a particular weight range. They are just as all over the place and subjective as they have always been. Its a marketing tool that has become a fad among manufacturers to sell more cymbals through the internet--since music stores are sadly on the decline. If you think it helps you, great, but its just so much confirmation bias. Nothing beats a pair of ears listening to a cymbal in person.
@@weschilton I do agree that listening in person is the best (always will be), but I do find weights helpful to sort through options to help me find the sound I am looking for. I agree with you that "good" or "bad" are not at all connected to cymbal weight - I just wrote that it helps me find cymbals that may sound as I want them to. There are so many cymbals out there, and so many of them are not the sound I want to have .... but I know that there are other drummer out there looking for just that sound! That is what makes a good drum shop so fun to visit (I live near Drum Center of Portsmouth, so I get to shop at one of the best around!) - different drummers all looking for their sound, or a new sound, among all of those choices. So, there is no good and bad in there for me - just more data for me to take in as I look at options. I don't really see how confirmation bias plays into this for me - I have chosen not to get cymbals that seemed to be the perfect for me "in writing", but did not do it for me in person. And, I have been surprised that other cymbals out of my typical preferred range really impressed me. I don't understand why the use of weights seems to bother you so. When I toured the Sabian and Zildjian plans a few years ago, they spoke a lot about how managing weights (from choosing blanks of a certain weight to controlling lathing) was quite important to them. Zildjian was starting to list some weights on cymbals at that time (on some prototypes for sure), but Sabian was not at that time. (Interesting note - Sabian staff mostly used pounds and ounces when talking about weight, which was not what I expected!). I get that you don't like to refer to weights, but I think that lots of people find it useful.
@@weschilton No one ever claimed to be able to tell if a cymbal was good or bad based solely on weight. You're just looking for something to criticize. Exact gram weights (or masses, whatever) are not subjective the way general weight categories like "thin" or "medium" are, because as we've seen with Zildjian, they can change the weights of their cymbals without changing their weight categories. So if you are looking for a particular sound - maybe you heard someone else's old cymbal and really liked it - you can narrow down the search by looking for the same (but newer) model cymbal in weights that aren't too far off from the older cymbal's. Otherwise, the first step - deciding which cymbals to demo - is done more or less blindly. There are also certain qualities that are consistent enough that you can safely predict them based on weight. For example, with two of the same model ride cymbal, the heavier one is likely to be brighter. Or maybe you're looking for a cymbal that feels a certain way when you play it. I have two 22" rides that are ~120g apart, and they feel noticeably different from one another. Both sound great, and without a specific sound idea in my mind, I could be happy with either one, but I might pick one over the other based on how it feels, whether I want a cymbal with more or less "give".
I remember in the 70's-80's we would put strips of cloth directly under our batter heads for muffling never knowing how badly it was messing up our tuning and, sometimes the bearing edge on drums. Thanks for another Great video.
Well... Using my Porter Cable with a fresh battery to run the tension rods down is now a yesterday approach!!! Speed must be replaced with an Ear to drum approach!!! Kidding aside, you are probably one of the best at discussing relativity to each and every situation concerning tuning!!! It is a subject that is all too overwhelming! Thanks much For taking the time to be real on such a subjective topic! Thanks Muchly!!!
11:15 "Just like every head on the drums and every drum in the kit, there are relationships that have to be respected, have to be explored ... check out what that drum likes" You have lots of nice quotes but this is hands down the best drum quote I love from all your videos! ❤💛💚💙💜
if I had to give an advice it'd be, remember to retune your drums every once in a while. I have a pretty low-end kit (some CB Drums thing that I got for cheap as a beginners kit), and I tuned it p well when I first got it, and then never touched it again. And earlier this month I was playing it and was thinking "dang this sure sounds like crap, maybe I should consider upgrading my kit or something". And maybe I should, but, after spending sometime retuning the thing properly, it really makes a difference and makes it a whole new kit. I think It's a bit hard to "retune" my drums because they're there, and they work, and tuning takes time and it's easier to just say the kit sucks, but really just sitting down and simply making the lugs match, especially if you haven't done that in a while, will already bring a whole lot of life back into the kit.
I use my Tune Bot for MY drums, not to match anyone else’s. By that I mean I am finding out what sounds good for each drum in my kit and the Bot helps me return to a great sound easier. It is a lot of trial of different tunings.
I do the same thing. I've never used any of Tune Bot's published tunings. I figured out the tuning I like on my drums (by ear) and then wrote down the numbers. So for me, all I use the Tunebot for is to document the numbers (frequencies) so I can easily return to the same tuning if I change a head or want to try a different tuning. And I also use it to get all the lugs on a head a bit closer in pitch than I can do with my ears alone (like within .5hz versus 1 to 2hz with my ears). I think it brings the sound of the head head just a bit more into focus. Does take more time though.
No kiddin bout how turning 1 lug a half- quarter turn can thrown of the whole sound of an already in-tuned snare. It was driving me mad but once I realized how much a quarter turn affects it well, now I know (lol) thanks a million Cody
Your presentations are always excellent and info provided useful. I started playing during the era of bottomless heads on toms and 40 some yrs later continue to learn and change. Also went thru the age of squishy (loose) snares. Everything you say is important. The one thing you say, to me is very important….trust your ears. That, like learning the instrument takes time. Try different things and dont be afraid to ask for help. Tuning drums is a skill/art in itself
Very informative for the advanced drum tuner. And it plants seeds in those who are new to it! Thanks! Considering the Tunebot, I have found it useful when tuning backline kits that I don't have time to experiment with. Given a 12 or 13 tom and a 16 FT, I have a pre-determined Hz chart that I use every time. The interval between the batter and reso is a Perfect 4th. The high tom fundamental produces an B flat and the floor tom produces an E flat. The separation between the two toms is an ideal Perfect 5th. If the batter head is two ply, then the tom fundamental just so happens to be an exact octave lower than the reso. For example, if I want a B flat fundamental on the high tom, then the reso just happens to be that exact note. And the batter a Perfect 4th under. With a single ply batter, the fundamental is higher for some reason. I adjust either head to get the desired fundamental. I make the determination on the feel of the hit. With this consistent met with a Tunebot, I can get a quick, quality sound for rock and blues. Not jazz, though. I also have a tuning chart that does the same thing with a Major 3rd interval between reso and batter. I use that when I don't want a lot of volume in a smaller club. I hope this advice is useful to someone who hasn't much time to tune a backline kit. One benefit is impressing those around you who are watching you do it. Haha! But the result speak for itself. In summary, that's how I maximized the benefits of the Tunebot. It's not only great for documenting a final result, but for getting you in the ballpark quickly provided that one has a predetermined plan. I swear by it.
I can't help but be reminded of starting in 1964 when the only reliable and consistently available heads were the standard Remo's and we were taught how to tune a drum, not the head. (Important to this is having the right bearing edge and rims to even pursue a specific tuning.) Drummers today must be going nuts with all the heads available now and most are nothing but a replacement for the now gone internal mufflers. Nobody is getting any tuning now that can't be had with the standard Remo's and good tuning. Yes, Remo is now caught up in the head hype also. You're right about foregoing the numbers. The concept of equal lug tension to find a desired tone is nonsense. Why? Physics, the effect of neighboring elements (mass) on a force (tension) and balancing the two. Considering that the tension on every lug effects the tone at every other lug, the desired tone can be had with every lug being tensioned differently. Doing this allows for control of resonance and sustain with the desired tone\tuning and the compressors can be turned off or at least their use minimized. Drummers today are hypnotized by a bunch of marketing nonsense. Of course this comment mostly applies to Rock and Pop music which includes most of the drummers out there. Different music expects or requires different tunings. Lombardi should have stuck with the Camco\Hayman roots instead of trying to create and sell a bandwagon allusion. His exceptional focus on quality would have been enough. OK, go ahead and tear this apart now! 🙂
In others words: There is no right or wrong. Sometimes just the sound matters, regardles what you use. Take your time to experiment and learn, avoid "readymade" solutions and thoughts. Its you sound, you got to find to fit your equipment and your situation.
Love this video. I’m no expert nor a pro drummer by any means, but during the lockdown last year, we’ve been doing online jams. Every time I listen back to my raw recording, I wanted to make the sound of the drums better. Like you said, experimentation and using your ears are the best ways to get ‘that’ drum sound. Besides the mic placements, I tinker around tuning, both batter and reso heads. I also started playing differently, like unburying the beater or hitting the drums differently, changes the sound. Thank you for this video! You guys are amazing!
Can I just say kudos on your tact - You have such a diplomatic way of addressing these views that are so near and dear to many of our hearts. I think it fosters open consideration and critical thinking.
Thanks guys! Both of us really appreciate it. If you are able to support our work through Patreon, that would mean the world to us and get you access to even more information. Cheers! -Ben
The great jazz drummer Dave King said. “No need to over think it. The best way to tune is how you like it to sound” There is no right way or wrong way. After 55 years of tuning drums, I can tune by feel, to maybe an eighth of a turn at one lug It depends on the mood. Tune higher for jazz, lower for rock Overthinking tuning will drive you crazy, and gets really expensive buying different heads searching for “that sound” Once the music gets cranked up, no one in the audience will know the difference anyway
I'm pretty clueless when it comes to tuning, so I used TuneBot numbers to get a decent starting point for a kit with four toms. From there, I was able to experiment around. Worked really well for me, but mostly because I just used them as a starting point and didn't mistake them for some sort of commandments. I think that's where the issues with tuning gadgets start. People start disregarding what they hear in favor of trusting some simple numbers.
Thanks for the video addressing some of the tuning variables. I find that I am best satisfied when I tune the tom head (primarily the rack tom) for feel first. The majority of my gigs are jazz, pop, and lower volume. I want to get a predictable rebound from various tunings, so I go for a pitch that accomplishes that rebound feel on the batter head. If the pitch needs to be adjusted after that, I raise and lower the reso head as needed. Obviously this won't accomplish a really low flappy sound, so there are some necessary exceptions.
The snare side tension thing is very true. Much like the snare in this video, I like my snare tuned to G with a 5th overtone, so I tune my batter to D then bring up the reso until the drum's fundamental pitch gets to G. My last snare (402 supra which was sadly stolen) needed a LOT of tension on the bottom head in order to get to the pitch I wanted, whereas my current snare (SLP dry aluminium) needs much less tension to get to the same pitch.
Such an awesome video! Having so much advice in one place is wonderful. This deserves tons of plays. I personally would stress to practise tuning a lot. Your ears, fingers will develop to make and listen for more subtle changes in sound. Then, advice becomes more like a toolbox: I sometimes use 1 drum key, sometimes 2. For some snare drums i use muffling, for others i don’t. Sometimes finger rim shots gives me the clearest note, sometimes it’s by muting the centre of the drum etc etc. Lastly : mistake no 4: GUILTY:-)
Hey there Pablo! Thanks for watching. This actually falls in line with the point we made about thinking you need a different tuning method based on the shell material. The same goes for construction- be it stave, block, solid single-ply, or multi-ply. -Ben
Your point about tunebot, drum dial, etc settings is while you shouldn’t necessarily rely on someone else’s numbers, every drum does seem to prefer a certain relationship between the top and bottom head. For example whether I tune my Mapex armory high or low, they seem to sound best when the reso is a perfect fourth higher than the batter. That’s just me though. Your mileage may vary and that’s perfectly ok.
wish those tighter thread pitch DW lugs/tension rods weren't so damn expensive. drumsets as a whole could really benefit from making finer tuning adjustments easier to accomplish
I find the DW True-Pitch tension rods, although not a bad thing (unless somehow you are in a hurry and hate the extra turns they require), are completely unnecessary. Learning to make tiny adjustments the way a piano tuner does is not that hard. It's a heck of a lot easier to do on a drum than on a piano too, since piano tuning pegs have way more friction. An L-shaped drum key makes it easier too.
The problem is run into is sympathetic snare buzz from my 13" rack tom. I have both dialed in where i like, but the snare has a slight buzz. I am afraid to make adjustments... lol
I've always tuned my guitar up to the desired pitch because I heard that will keep it in tune better. Whether or not that's true remains to be seen, but it got me wondering if the same is true for drums.
Yes, always tune up to pitch. If you have to go lower, go below the desired pitch and come up to pitch. If you tune down to pitch, the pitch will drop a little bit more after you start playing. Same reason you always torque up on bolts, never down.
Awesome tutorial! As a beginner I have learnt so much from your channel. I have a Sonor Martini kit and have a difficult time with the interval between the 8" tom and 13" tom. I currently have a 7th between the 2 toms. 8" being a F fundamental and the 13" a A#. I have heard that people typically tune a 4th or 5th apart. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks. Wishing you continued success with your channel.
Hi I notice your hihat cymbal angle is great? Do you not hack up your sticks with the bottom hat prodruding like it does? also what are your thoughts on having the angle screw? nearest you...rather than opposite side? meaning..the top hat would always cover the bottom.. thanks..
I tilt my hats very close to how those look, I get a cleaner foot chick plus a nice sizzle, and foot splashing the hi hat sounds better, it eats up sticks more but I’m willing to sacrifice sticks for a better sound.
There is a lot of information on tuning drum heads to themselves and tuning the heads to the shell, intervals etc, but what about tuning to a specific room or environment? I have noticed that I can tune my drums in a room with good acoustics and it sounds great, but when you set the kit up with the same tuning in a different room, the toms in particular, sound terribly dead. Is this a tuning issue or is it an acoustics issue in the room?
Another awesome video, thanks for keeping me a well informed drummer! Where can I see videos of you playing live with a group? Do you play anything other than jazz while you're out gigging?
+soundslikeadrum *On my TAMA®/Hoshino® poplarbuilts, I favor almost equally heavy tom resonants to the batters,* e.g. EVANS®/D'Addario® BnnEC2 top/TTnnEC2 bottom on rack and floor toms, with no muffling. Haven't settled on a batter-resonant interval for the IMB22E, which packs a BD22EMADHW, a 2x10-mil head, with the thick ring at the rear and a TAMA-branded REMO® ES-1022-00, a single-10-mil head, up front; I favor close to maximum sustain but would like to be able to instant-decay the tone with a beater bury.
The same rules apply... even tuning of the drumhead, and find the pitch range that a particular drum likes. experiment with different heads and keep in mind that specialty drums like these... concert toms, super shallow/pancake shells, rototoms, etc... have "a sound" that isn't easy to get away from.
Hi. I have 2 snare drums. One Ludwig “the brick” and a Gretsch with possibility to adjust snare wire on both sides. The Ludwig I tried to tune with low/medium tone but don’t manage to get it good. Any suggestions? And the Gretsch. Why is I double. I don’t feel or hear any difference. Any suggestions?
Hi guys! Amazing channel! Thank you! I have a question for you. How many times can i tight a reso or side snare head and untight it, and tight it again and untight repeatedly? When i tried different setup i do it a lot and i was wondering if it makes "damage" or wear?
Thanks so much! The answer to your question is dependent on so many different factors (the brand of drumhead, the mount of tension and duration under a given tension, the edges on the drum, etc). Best bet is to listen to how it responds as you work to retune it and see if it behaves as expected.
You left out - considering how the shell is allowed to move. I once had a floor tom that sounded amazing tipped on edge, long deep pure tone that shook your gut. But then it sounded like crap when it was sitting on all 3 legs. I spent hours trying to figure it out, adjusting the heads, when it struck me and I tried just lifting a leg or two off the floor - and bam it was great. The legs were killing resonance and tone. I bought feet cushions that let the legs float a bit ("decoupled" from the floor), and suddenly the tuning was great. Night and day. Nothing to do with the heads or tuning method.
We've actually explored this in the past and have been quite happy with the TrueVibe isolation mounts from TnR Products. Of course, this episode was about top 10 drum tuning mistakes we've come across and, as you mention in your comment, this has nothing to do with heads or tuning method, so we didn't feel like it was as relevant to the topic at hand. Thanks for watching!
I find the room has a lot to do with how I tune my drums. I like my bass drum wide open with no muffling, but the room they are set up in currently doesn't allow for it no matter how I tune it. And because of this, I have to muffle the rest of my kit to match the bass drum.
Excellent- it should have a lot to do with it. The room, the music, your playing style, artist preferences, etc. These things should all act as the context to inform your tuning choices.
I'm using G1's as batters. I'm about to switch to G2 batters and I'm thinking about using my lightly used G1 batters as resos. Is this good or dumb? I think y'all covered this somewhere but I can't find it
I have tried the G2 batter G1 Reso combination and I was not thrilled with the results. I’m staying (for the moment) with G1 on both batter and resonant.
Does anyone have a remedy or hack for hi hat clutch slipping? I guess I have a heavy left foot, and I am always keeping time with the left foot and incorporating the left foot into grooves. After a few minutes, without fail, my hi hats are 3” apart. I’m currently using a Gibraltar clutch that wraps around the pull rod, the pull rod was recently (within a year) replaced. Would getting some kind of rubber material in between there help? I’m considering even dogging that clutch in with a crescent wrench but haven’t brought myself there yet. I might as well cause I always lock it down with two hands and as much leverage as I can get. For the record, I’m using 16” hi hats so I’m wondering if that isn’t helping.
i mean this is a pretty diy way to do it, theres probably a proper soloution. But i would put some tape tightly wrapped around the pole just above the clutch so that it can't slide any further up. or even drill a small hole through the rod and stick a pin of some sort through it (that just means you'll have to commit to a height). Hopefully someone else gives you a more professional answer haha, but these methods should get you out of trouble.. at least temporarily!
@@jimkopponen283 I think that’s my next move. A lot of people swore the Gibraltar was gonna stop the issue but we will see if the Pearl fares any better. God forbid I have to actually train my left foot to be less rambunctious.
@@jzac77 tried the tape after reading this and that didn’t work, but I probably didn’t put enough. I’m gonna try the Pearl clutch and if that doesn’t do it I am thinking about seeing if I can use a memory lock from my cowbell mount or even a second clutch on top haha. It’s gotta be something about 16” hats cause I’m a relatively little dude.
@@solitudeparade maybe try to tape a cone shape, it should stop it. Thin at the bottom and progressively get thicker so it jams. Until you get a new clutch
I think you need to do more demonstration and less playing. Why do so many of these youtuber drummers show off so much and explain less. You are not the only one. ~T
I WOULD NEVER MUFFLE MY DRUMS GET THAT CRAP AWAY FROM YOUR DRUM DRUMS NEED TO RING JUST AS GOD INTENDED!!"231"!!!!! -usually some weekend-drumming guy with expensive gear and little ability
I run into the "watching too many drum tuning videos but not actually trying my own method" issue. This channel is literally the reason why I tell people "hey bro, if you can't tune your kit, don't ask me, but check these guys out." I'm still on the line of either not overthinking tuning or digging deep down into the science of tuning. That being said, I personally think people focus too much on the head's surface when muffling, but internal muffling can actually be far more beneficial in the sound their imagining. Y'all made the whole cotton balls in toms video, as well has hanging a shirt inside the drum without actually messing with the drum heads. I've gotten unbelievable results from those videos, and I still think internal muffling is an underrated practice.
Check out a channel called Drum Tuning Workshops.
Always internal. Keeps drums clean, and makes people wonder how you got that amazing sound .
This is honestly the only drum channel I follow anymore, besides product demos. Everything you really need to know is right here.
Your knowledge, skills, and ability to explain these concepts about drum tuning are some of the best on TH-cam! If I could add one little nugget that helps me when I am tuning, I use one hand(right) to turn the drum key and my left hand has a stick and I tap between every turn to listen to what changes, every action has a reaction. I do the same thing when I am eq-ing or making changes with a process like compression in terms of production, I make sure I hear what the changes are while it's playing, and not when I can't hear the results in real time. Keep em coming!!
Perhaps not "...some of the best..." but the best.
What I really like on this channel is, that you never get dogmatic in any direction.
Listeners have to think it over and match the information with their own special situation.
I wished we had this intention also in other aspects of life, especially when it comes to political/ideological pressure situations like we face today.
Great point about particularly snare-side heads not being very elastic, really useful to know!
Cody, I am late to this party on Drum Tuning. I have seen many others by you as a subscriber. I may have posted this "weird" event elsewhere, so forgive me. I have been struggling to Tune a DW Design series Nickel over Brass 14 X 6.5 snare for awhile now. HD Dry batter head, stock clear reso head, standard wires. I replaced the batter head a few weeks ago and have fooled with the tuning since. I have not been able to get to that "sweet" sound I was looking for. In frustration late week, I placed the DW snare on my 16 inch Floor tom and played my PDP Maple snare (also with a HD dry head). While playing, doing a fill, I hit the DW snare sitting on the Floor Tom. Bingo.... That was the Sound, the Ludwig Suprphonic sound (the Jon Bonham sound), I was looking for !! Take the Snare off, it was not the same? Put it back and it was great. As posters on drum forums have told me - maybe You invented a New Snare Stand? One poster said that I was playing 2 Drums simultaneously ! it ws recommednded to chnage the batter head to a UV 1; I did and to my ear, played worse. Any ideas ? BTW, the Floor Tom is 16 X 14 (deep) and has G2 coated batter head.
The tunebot discussion is very good, it reminds me of this whole cymbal weight obsession (in grams no less!) You simply cannot tell what a cymbal is going to sound like by weight. You have to play it, in person.
I do agree with some of your post but, with regard to cymbal weight, I do find that knowing the grams helps me zero in on cymbals that I am more likely to find pleasing to me. I generally like heavy cymbals (22 inches, 3,000 grams and up seems to be my sweet spot for rides, and I like bottom hats of 1400 grams and up) and, based on experience, lighter crashes and rides mostly do not have the cut that I am looking for. I am also a fan of playing things in person (I LOVE to just wander around my local drum store and just try things out), but I seldom end up picking something that is way out of my typical preferences. So, for me, cymbal weight is a good way to go through the choices in some instances .....
@@jasonb2180 Its nothing but a marketing tool, and a misleading one... I've been playing since the early 70s, I even still have a few old Zildjian and Paiste catalogs from the 80s... and I NEVER saw any marketing with weights--other than they usual "heavy," "fast," "thin" or other usual monikers like that (which also didn't always mean much). Weights were not printed on any of the 200+ cymbals I have owned over the last 48 years, at least not until the last 5-8 years.... they were not written about in magazines, talked about between drummers, asked for in music stores, producers never asked me to bring a cymbal of a certain weight in grams... only in more general terms, brighter, darker, a particular brand, etc.
And since this whole weight thing got faddish, I have not heard any sort of consistency of "good" or "bad" sounding cymbals that correlates towards a particular weight range. They are just as all over the place and subjective as they have always been. Its a marketing tool that has become a fad among manufacturers to sell more cymbals through the internet--since music stores are sadly on the decline. If you think it helps you, great, but its just so much confirmation bias.
Nothing beats a pair of ears listening to a cymbal in person.
@@weschilton I do agree that listening in person is the best (always will be), but I do find weights helpful to sort through options to help me find the sound I am looking for. I agree with you that "good" or "bad" are not at all connected to cymbal weight - I just wrote that it helps me find cymbals that may sound as I want them to. There are so many cymbals out there, and so many of them are not the sound I want to have .... but I know that there are other drummer out there looking for just that sound! That is what makes a good drum shop so fun to visit (I live near Drum Center of Portsmouth, so I get to shop at one of the best around!) - different drummers all looking for their sound, or a new sound, among all of those choices. So, there is no good and bad in there for me - just more data for me to take in as I look at options. I don't really see how confirmation bias plays into this for me - I have chosen not to get cymbals that seemed to be the perfect for me "in writing", but did not do it for me in person. And, I have been surprised that other cymbals out of my typical preferred range really impressed me. I don't understand why the use of weights seems to bother you so. When I toured the Sabian and Zildjian plans a few years ago, they spoke a lot about how managing weights (from choosing blanks of a certain weight to controlling lathing) was quite important to them. Zildjian was starting to list some weights on cymbals at that time (on some prototypes for sure), but Sabian was not at that time. (Interesting note - Sabian staff mostly used pounds and ounces when talking about weight, which was not what I expected!). I get that you don't like to refer to weights, but I think that lots of people find it useful.
Wes Chilton many turkish cymbal brands have been handwriting the weight on every single cymbal for years...
@@weschilton No one ever claimed to be able to tell if a cymbal was good or bad based solely on weight. You're just looking for something to criticize. Exact gram weights (or masses, whatever) are not subjective the way general weight categories like "thin" or "medium" are, because as we've seen with Zildjian, they can change the weights of their cymbals without changing their weight categories. So if you are looking for a particular sound - maybe you heard someone else's old cymbal and really liked it - you can narrow down the search by looking for the same (but newer) model cymbal in weights that aren't too far off from the older cymbal's. Otherwise, the first step - deciding which cymbals to demo - is done more or less blindly.
There are also certain qualities that are consistent enough that you can safely predict them based on weight. For example, with two of the same model ride cymbal, the heavier one is likely to be brighter. Or maybe you're looking for a cymbal that feels a certain way when you play it. I have two 22" rides that are ~120g apart, and they feel noticeably different from one another. Both sound great, and without a specific sound idea in my mind, I could be happy with either one, but I might pick one over the other based on how it feels, whether I want a cymbal with more or less "give".
I remember in the 70's-80's we would put strips of cloth directly under our batter heads for muffling never knowing how badly it was messing up our tuning and, sometimes the bearing edge on drums. Thanks for another Great video.
Well... Using my Porter Cable with a fresh battery to run the tension rods down is now a yesterday approach!!! Speed must be replaced with an Ear to drum approach!!! Kidding aside, you are probably one of the best at discussing relativity to each and every situation concerning tuning!!! It is a subject that is all too overwhelming! Thanks much For taking the time to be real on such a subjective topic! Thanks Muchly!!!
11:15 "Just like every head on the drums and every drum in the kit, there are relationships that have to be respected, have to be explored ... check out what that drum likes"
You have lots of nice quotes but this is hands down the best drum quote I love from all your videos! ❤💛💚💙💜
Best comment ever :) -Cody
if I had to give an advice it'd be, remember to retune your drums every once in a while.
I have a pretty low-end kit (some CB Drums thing that I got for cheap as a beginners kit), and I tuned it p well when I first got it, and then never touched it again.
And earlier this month I was playing it and was thinking "dang this sure sounds like crap, maybe I should consider upgrading my kit or something".
And maybe I should, but, after spending sometime retuning the thing properly, it really makes a difference and makes it a whole new kit.
I think It's a bit hard to "retune" my drums because they're there, and they work, and tuning takes time and it's easier to just say the kit sucks, but really just sitting down and simply making the lugs match, especially if you haven't done that in a while, will already bring a whole lot of life back into the kit.
I use my Tune Bot for MY drums, not to match anyone else’s. By that I mean I am finding out what sounds good for each drum in my kit and the Bot helps me return to a great sound easier. It is a lot of trial of different tunings.
I do the same thing. I've never used any of Tune Bot's published tunings. I figured out the tuning I like on my drums (by ear) and then wrote down the numbers. So for me, all I use the Tunebot for is to document the numbers (frequencies) so I can easily return to the same tuning if I change a head or want to try a different tuning. And I also use it to get all the lugs on a head a bit closer in pitch than I can do with my ears alone (like within .5hz versus 1 to 2hz with my ears). I think it brings the sound of the head head just a bit more into focus. Does take more time though.
No kiddin bout how turning 1 lug a half- quarter turn can thrown of the whole sound of an already in-tuned snare. It was driving me mad but once I realized how much a quarter turn affects it well, now I know (lol) thanks a million Cody
Your presentations are always excellent and info provided useful. I started playing during the era of bottomless heads on toms and 40 some yrs later continue to learn and change. Also went thru the age of squishy (loose) snares. Everything you say is important. The one thing you say, to me is very important….trust your ears. That, like learning the instrument takes time. Try different things and dont be afraid to ask for help. Tuning drums is a skill/art in itself
I use a Tunebot to help keep track of what my drums like, and that's it. It's definitely really helpful in that sense.
Very informative for the advanced drum tuner. And it plants seeds in those who are new to it! Thanks!
Considering the Tunebot, I have found it useful when tuning backline kits that I don't have time to experiment with. Given a 12 or 13 tom and a 16 FT, I have a pre-determined Hz chart that I use every time. The interval between the batter and reso is a Perfect 4th. The high tom fundamental produces an B flat and the floor tom produces an E flat. The separation between the two toms is an ideal Perfect 5th. If the batter head is two ply, then the tom fundamental just so happens to be an exact octave lower than the reso. For example, if I want a B flat fundamental on the high tom, then the reso just happens to be that exact note. And the batter a Perfect 4th under. With a single ply batter, the fundamental is higher for some reason. I adjust either head to get the desired fundamental. I make the determination on the feel of the hit.
With this consistent met with a Tunebot, I can get a quick, quality sound for rock and blues. Not jazz, though. I also have a tuning chart that does the same thing with a Major 3rd interval between reso and batter. I use that when I don't want a lot of volume in a smaller club.
I hope this advice is useful to someone who hasn't much time to tune a backline kit. One benefit is impressing those around you who are watching you do it. Haha! But the result speak for itself.
In summary, that's how I maximized the benefits of the Tunebot. It's not only great for documenting a final result, but for getting you in the ballpark quickly provided that one has a predetermined plan. I swear by it.
I can't help but be reminded of starting in 1964 when the only reliable and consistently available heads were the standard Remo's and we were taught how to tune a drum, not the head. (Important to this is having the right bearing edge and rims to even pursue a specific tuning.) Drummers today must be going nuts with all the heads available now and most are nothing but a replacement for the now gone internal mufflers. Nobody is getting any tuning now that can't be had with the standard Remo's and good tuning. Yes, Remo is now caught up in the head hype also. You're right about foregoing the numbers. The concept of equal lug tension to find a desired tone is nonsense. Why? Physics, the effect of neighboring elements (mass) on a force (tension) and balancing the two. Considering that the tension on every lug effects the tone at every other lug, the desired tone can be had with every lug being tensioned differently. Doing this allows for control of resonance and sustain with the desired tone\tuning and the compressors can be turned off or at least their use minimized. Drummers today are hypnotized by a bunch of marketing nonsense. Of course this comment mostly applies to Rock and Pop music which includes most of the drummers out there. Different music expects or requires different tunings. Lombardi should have stuck with the Camco\Hayman roots instead of trying to create and sell a bandwagon allusion. His exceptional focus on quality would have been enough.
OK, go ahead and tear this apart now! 🙂
In others words:
There is no right or wrong.
Sometimes just the sound matters, regardles what you use.
Take your time to experiment and learn, avoid "readymade" solutions and thoughts.
Its you sound, you got to find to fit your equipment and your situation.
Love this video. I’m no expert nor a pro drummer by any means, but during the lockdown last year, we’ve been doing online jams. Every time I listen back to my raw recording, I wanted to make the sound of the drums better. Like you said, experimentation and using your ears are the best ways to get ‘that’ drum sound. Besides the mic placements, I tinker around tuning, both batter and reso heads. I also started playing differently, like unburying the beater or hitting the drums differently, changes the sound. Thank you for this video! You guys are amazing!
Hi do you watch Rob brown? If you haven't already..check out his Tom tuning video..best ever !
@@paulaeden5934 Yes, I love Rod Brown! I haven't checked his tom tuning video and will definitely check it out. Thanks :)
I appreciate you guys so much. I have this perfect sound in my head and you guys taught me how to actually make my drums sound like it.
Thank you Sounds Like a Drum so much for all the years of experimenting with drums. Your channel has made me fall in love with the drums again.
amazing stuff as always! had it in the background while setting up for a session and these reminders instantly helped me get a better sound. thanks!
Can I just say kudos on your tact - You have such a diplomatic way of addressing these views that are so near and dear to many of our hearts. I think it fosters open consideration and critical thinking.
Thank you! That’s our goal. Even though Cody is the one speaking 95% of the time, we’re a united front on this approach. Cheers! -Ben
This is the most helpful channel for the drumming community. Thank you
I totally agree what Greer Lambert posted. This is the most helpful channel,,,anywhere. My thanks to Cody and the staff for these vids.
Thanks guys! Both of us really appreciate it. If you are able to support our work through Patreon, that would mean the world to us and get you access to even more information. Cheers! -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum lol you're dealing with a 70 yr old drummer. How do I get to Parthenon spell? for a commendation? spell check?
The great jazz drummer Dave King said. “No need to over think it. The best way to tune is how you like it to sound”
There is no right way or wrong way. After 55 years of tuning drums, I can tune by feel, to maybe an eighth of a turn at one lug
It depends on the mood. Tune higher for jazz, lower for rock
Overthinking tuning will drive you crazy, and gets really expensive buying different heads searching for “that sound”
Once the music gets cranked up, no one in the audience will know the difference anyway
I'm pretty clueless when it comes to tuning, so I used TuneBot numbers to get a decent starting point for a kit with four toms. From there, I was able to experiment around. Worked really well for me, but mostly because I just used them as a starting point and didn't mistake them for some sort of commandments. I think that's where the issues with tuning gadgets start. People start disregarding what they hear in favor of trusting some simple numbers.
Yet another great video! I have to admit I have been guilty of most of the mistakes listed here. Keep up with the good work.
Thanks for the wealth of information/knowledge on your channel.
You’re quite welcome! Please help us spread the word to the rest of the drumming community.
Excellent !! Such a great channel !
SLAD, you guys a geniuses. What great advise. Thank you!
Hahaaa thanks for the intentional mislead! You guys are like drum gurus!
Thanks for the video addressing some of the tuning variables. I find that I am best satisfied when I tune the tom head (primarily the rack tom) for feel first. The majority of my gigs are jazz, pop, and lower volume. I want to get a predictable rebound from various tunings, so I go for a pitch that accomplishes that rebound feel on the batter head. If the pitch needs to be adjusted after that, I raise and lower the reso head as needed. Obviously this won't accomplish a really low flappy sound, so there are some necessary exceptions.
The snare side tension thing is very true. Much like the snare in this video, I like my snare tuned to G with a 5th overtone, so I tune my batter to D then bring up the reso until the drum's fundamental pitch gets to G. My last snare (402 supra which was sadly stolen) needed a LOT of tension on the bottom head in order to get to the pitch I wanted, whereas my current snare (SLP dry aluminium) needs much less tension to get to the same pitch.
I start with the tune, bought and recommended frequencies, depending on what I think I wanna get out of the drum and then I’ll adjust from there
Such an awesome video! Having so much advice in one place is wonderful. This deserves tons of plays.
I personally would stress to practise tuning a lot. Your ears, fingers will develop to make and listen for more subtle changes in sound. Then, advice becomes more like a toolbox: I sometimes use 1 drum key, sometimes 2. For some snare drums i use muffling, for others i don’t. Sometimes finger rim shots gives me the clearest note, sometimes it’s by muting the centre of the drum etc etc.
Lastly : mistake no 4: GUILTY:-)
very good lesson! tuning is a very long path!
Really brilliant video. So much good information.
Heads make a huge difference! Keep it simple when tuning, and find the sound that YOU like.
Amazing video, as always Cody... Can you do a special episode about tuning stave snares? Any tips or tips for them... Thanks!
Hey there Pablo! Thanks for watching. This actually falls in line with the point we made about thinking you need a different tuning method based on the shell material. The same goes for construction- be it stave, block, solid single-ply, or multi-ply. -Ben
Your point about tunebot, drum dial, etc settings is while you shouldn’t necessarily rely on someone else’s numbers, every drum does seem to prefer a certain relationship between the top and bottom head. For example whether I tune my Mapex armory high or low, they seem to sound best when the reso is a perfect fourth higher than the batter. That’s just me though. Your mileage may vary and that’s perfectly ok.
I just love you guys.
Aw shucks, thanks so much!
👊🏻🥁❤️
wish those tighter thread pitch DW lugs/tension rods weren't so damn expensive. drumsets as a whole could really benefit from making finer tuning adjustments easier to accomplish
I find the DW True-Pitch tension rods, although not a bad thing (unless somehow you are in a hurry and hate the extra turns they require), are completely unnecessary. Learning to make tiny adjustments the way a piano tuner does is not that hard. It's a heck of a lot easier to do on a drum than on a piano too, since piano tuning pegs have way more friction. An L-shaped drum key makes it easier too.
Always great advice yo.
Spreading the gospel. Another great video.
So awesome 👏 thanks
Good advice, but I'm here for the interludes.
Another great video!
Thank you.
The problem is run into is sympathetic snare buzz from my 13" rack tom. I have both dialed in where i like, but the snare has a slight buzz. I am afraid to make adjustments... lol
I've always tuned my guitar up to the desired pitch because I heard that will keep it in tune better. Whether or not that's true remains to be seen, but it got me wondering if the same is true for drums.
Yes, always tune up to pitch. If you have to go lower, go below the desired pitch and come up to pitch. If you tune down to pitch, the pitch will drop a little bit more after you start playing. Same reason you always torque up on bolts, never down.
Yes, that applies to anything that has a tension force applied to it.
Awesome tutorial! As a beginner I have learnt so much from your channel. I have a Sonor Martini kit and have a difficult time with the interval between the 8" tom and 13" tom. I currently have a 7th between the 2 toms. 8" being a F fundamental and the 13" a A#. I have heard that people typically tune a 4th or 5th apart. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks. Wishing you continued success with your channel.
Hi I notice your hihat cymbal angle is great? Do you not hack up your sticks with the bottom hat prodruding like it does? also what are your thoughts on having the angle screw? nearest you...rather than opposite side? meaning..the top hat would always cover the bottom.. thanks..
I'd like to know about the hi hat cymbal thingy. I know vented hats may not need the angle. What are your thoughts Cody?
@@michaelsheahan5005 no reply to you either...guess he's busy lol... There is no rite or wrong way when it comes to hihat..just do what works for you!
I tilt my hats very close to how those look, I get a cleaner foot chick plus a nice sizzle, and foot splashing the hi hat sounds better, it eats up sticks more but I’m willing to sacrifice sticks for a better sound.
great informative video
There is a lot of information on tuning drum heads to themselves and tuning the heads to the shell, intervals etc, but what about tuning to a specific room or environment? I have noticed that I can tune my drums in a room with good acoustics and it sounds great, but when you set the kit up with the same tuning in a different room, the toms in particular, sound terribly dead. Is this a tuning issue or is it an acoustics issue in the room?
Another awesome video, thanks for keeping me a well informed drummer! Where can I see videos of you playing live with a group? Do you play anything other than jazz while you're out gigging?
+soundslikeadrum *On my TAMA®/Hoshino® poplarbuilts, I favor almost equally heavy tom resonants to the batters,* e.g. EVANS®/D'Addario® BnnEC2 top/TTnnEC2 bottom on rack and floor toms, with no muffling. Haven't settled on a batter-resonant interval for the IMB22E, which packs a BD22EMADHW, a 2x10-mil head, with the thick ring at the rear and a TAMA-branded REMO® ES-1022-00, a single-10-mil head, up front; I favor close to maximum sustain but would like to be able to instant-decay the tone with a beater bury.
Could you talk about tunning drum kits that have no resonant head or even no shells, such as the Pearl Compact Traveller kit?
The same rules apply... even tuning of the drumhead, and find the pitch range that a particular drum likes. experiment with different heads and keep in mind that specialty drums like these... concert toms, super shallow/pancake shells, rototoms, etc... have "a sound" that isn't easy to get away from.
Hi. I have 2 snare drums. One Ludwig “the brick” and a Gretsch with possibility to adjust snare wire on both sides. The Ludwig I tried to tune with low/medium tone but don’t manage to get it good. Any suggestions? And the Gretsch. Why is I double. I don’t feel or hear any difference. Any suggestions?
I think you take something very simple and intuitive and turn it into a whole to do!
How so?
Great info. Thanks.
Ads frequency is unbearable.
1:29 hehehe he did the groove
Hi guys! Amazing channel! Thank you! I have a question for you. How many times can i tight a reso or side snare head and untight it, and tight it again and untight repeatedly? When i tried different setup i do it a lot and i was wondering if it makes "damage" or wear?
Thanks so much! The answer to your question is dependent on so many different factors (the brand of drumhead, the mount of tension and duration under a given tension, the edges on the drum, etc). Best bet is to listen to how it responds as you work to retune it and see if it behaves as expected.
You left out - considering how the shell is allowed to move. I once had a floor tom that sounded amazing tipped on edge, long deep pure tone that shook your gut. But then it sounded like crap when it was sitting on all 3 legs. I spent hours trying to figure it out, adjusting the heads, when it struck me and I tried just lifting a leg or two off the floor - and bam it was great. The legs were killing resonance and tone. I bought feet cushions that let the legs float a bit ("decoupled" from the floor), and suddenly the tuning was great. Night and day. Nothing to do with the heads or tuning method.
We've actually explored this in the past and have been quite happy with the TrueVibe isolation mounts from TnR Products. Of course, this episode was about top 10 drum tuning mistakes we've come across and, as you mention in your comment, this has nothing to do with heads or tuning method, so we didn't feel like it was as relevant to the topic at hand. Thanks for watching!
Lol I never used a tune bot, didn't know they had that many settings, it sounds pretty excessive
I find the room has a lot to do with how I tune my drums. I like my bass drum wide open with no muffling, but the room they are set up in currently doesn't allow for it no matter how I tune it. And because of this, I have to muffle the rest of my kit to match the bass drum.
Excellent- it should have a lot to do with it. The room, the music, your playing style, artist preferences, etc. These things should all act as the context to inform your tuning choices.
Having to retune drums for every room you play in is one of the great annoyances of being a drummer.
I'm using G1's as batters. I'm about to switch to G2 batters and I'm thinking about using my lightly used G1 batters as resos. Is this good or dumb? I think y'all covered this somewhere but I can't find it
I have tried the G2 batter G1 Reso combination and I was not thrilled with the results. I’m staying (for the moment) with G1 on both batter and resonant.
Ok there is at least 2 elephants in the room, where are you going to set up a kit??
yEah.! grEat idEas..!.
Great
Does anyone have a remedy or hack for hi hat clutch slipping? I guess I have a heavy left foot, and I am always keeping time with the left foot and incorporating the left foot into grooves. After a few minutes, without fail, my hi hats are 3” apart. I’m currently using a Gibraltar clutch that wraps around the pull rod, the pull rod was recently (within a year) replaced. Would getting some kind of rubber material in between there help? I’m considering even dogging that clutch in with a crescent wrench but haven’t brought myself there yet. I might as well cause I always lock it down with two hands and as much leverage as I can get. For the record, I’m using 16” hi hats so I’m wondering if that isn’t helping.
i mean this is a pretty diy way to do it, theres probably a proper soloution. But i would put some tape tightly wrapped around the pole just above the clutch so that it can't slide any further up. or even drill a small hole through the rod and stick a pin of some sort through it (that just means you'll have to commit to a height). Hopefully someone else gives you a more professional answer haha, but these methods should get you out of trouble.. at least temporarily!
Buy Pearl HCL-205QR Hi-Hat Clutch. Helped me to get rid of that problem.
@@jimkopponen283 I think that’s my next move. A lot of people swore the Gibraltar was gonna stop the issue but we will see if the Pearl fares any better. God forbid I have to actually train my left foot to be less rambunctious.
@@jzac77 tried the tape after reading this and that didn’t work, but I probably didn’t put enough. I’m gonna try the Pearl clutch and if that doesn’t do it I am thinking about seeing if I can use a memory lock from my cowbell mount or even a second clutch on top haha. It’s gotta be something about 16” hats cause I’m a relatively little dude.
@@solitudeparade maybe try to tape a cone shape, it should stop it. Thin at the bottom and progressively get thicker so it jams. Until you get a new clutch
I love this video
You said it early on in your series. It’s endlessly fussing. Really, it’s the only thing that works.
I think you need to do more demonstration and less playing. Why do so many of these youtuber drummers show off so much and explain less. You are not the only one. ~T
I WOULD NEVER MUFFLE MY DRUMS GET THAT CRAP AWAY FROM YOUR DRUM DRUMS NEED TO RING JUST AS GOD INTENDED!!"231"!!!!!
-usually some weekend-drumming guy with expensive gear and little ability