I would love to see your take on Elagabalus. Like do you think the writings about him which ... to the modern ear and mind make them sound like someone we might call transgender. Including wanting to have a surgically created vagina, are just slander or are they serious? There is the fact the highest priest of Elgabal were castrated, and rome had a sect of priest who did this the Galle. At the same time Rome had a prohibition against that. So were they mixing real practices up and just saying something outrageous or might there have been something to it. (There is also the fact the Romans had a habit of sexualizing what we would now call young males, maybe even minors.)
The assassination of emperor Aurelian is one of the greatest tragedies in Roman history. He achieved so much in just 5 years imagine what he could accomplish if he reigned for longer. On a side note, I am really glad you will be covering earlier periods of Rome. I am interested to hear your view on the crisis of the third century and the Severan dynasty.
Is it? Some people think it's a given that re-uniting the Roman empire was positive. I disagree: The Roman empire fell apart 200 years later anyways, but with severely weakend successor states. Gaulle e.g. was much more economically prosperous in the 3rd century than in the 5th. If the split-up would have occurred in the 3rd century, the successor state _could_ have been able to secure the Danube and the Rhine frontiers and to keep the Sassanids at bay. Later they could re-unify, this happened to China several times. Instead, we got Diocletian. He was a titan, but he also implemented a military dictatorship which strangled the economy in the long run and hence made the empire weaker than it had to be. I won't blame Diocletian for not knowing economy, because nobody did back then. But I think that splitting up in the 3rd century _could_ have delivered better results, with reduced complexity and hence lower taxes and actual economic growth in the successor states ..
I like how Aurelianus' full name includes the praenomen "Lucius" which means "Light". He truly was the burning light that refused to die and instead fought back against the dark abyss.
Interestingly enough Aurelian might have been the first emperor to actively intervene in Christian affairs as a positive force. During his Palmaryan campaign, Aurelian got a request by Christians to remove Paul of Samosata from Antioch since he was spreading heresy and was a supporter of Zenobia. Aurelian, who was in the area at the time, ordered Paul to leave the bishop’s residence and was banned from Antioch. This is the first recorded time the Christian church would go to the government to settle religious problems
Actually, the mom of the Emperor Alexander Severus may have been partial to Christians ... this includes a relationship involving Origen showing up at her court.
@@joellaz9836 the recent biography on Alexander Severus talks about his mom supposedly inviting Origen over to their place in Syria. Its an interesting book: Emperor Alexander Severus: Rome's Age of Insurrection, AD 222-235 Emperor Alexander Severus: Rome's Age of Insurrection, AD 222-235 by John S. McHugh | Jan 24, 2020
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian The little peace of the church is a period of time when persecutions against christianity ceased, from the time of Gallienus until Diocletian. Yes Aurelian also pusued this policy and indeed decreed the removal of Pul of Samosata, thus intervening in the theological disputes of the early Christian Church, in a similar manner to Constantine.
@@theguyof360 I empathize with your sentiment. I'd rather think of it less as a monotheistic tendency to venerate a solar deity, and rather a henotheistic one where the solar god is the conquering god of the state. Jupiter was the king of stability and order, but Rome at this time needed a god representing positive action.
It's likely that both Aurelian and the Christians chose December 25th independently because it was the traditional Winter Solstice and had cosmic significance.
Saturnalia, which I think was the most important of Roman holidays, was also celebrated around the same time, and it involved giving gifts and involved spreading good cheer. I'm sure over time all of these different festivities merged and evolved intermixing in various ways.
Actually the most important Sol invictus festivals were on August and October, not December. *There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.* *"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."* *In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.* *"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]* *This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
We can still hope and dream, yes :) It would certainly be cool, even though it would have narrowed the vision and might have been quite impractical. But cool? Absolutely !
If there are no ancient accounts of him wearing a mask, we can safely assume that he didn't wear one and it was made up for dramatic effects like Hollywood.
I appreciate you not censoring yourself and your opinions. It's so refreshing to see in this day and age. Also Thank you for making a video about Sol Invictus, I was curious to learn more about it but there were seldom good sources!
Yes I dont like when historians dont say personal opinions in order to be super "academic". Many time its a pose. If you put some strong opinions it ads some juicy flavor to it.
Hello EsotericRetard, awesome name by the way, haha! Thanks, yes, this might turn out to be a somewhat opinionated channel, and some people will hate that, but hopefully some others such as you will like it :)
@GGLTM P in 312 christians made apx 10% of population. Therefore I dont believe Aurelians primary motive was to fight christianity. Also rise of that religion wasnt unstopable, Constantin made it grow from the top. (English not my primary language so sorry for mistakes)
@@sudetenrider-pili6637 Except historians think so now days. They don’t preclude the possibility of it being so. *There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.* *"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."* *In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.* *"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]* *This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
@Glogderp Glogderpson You don't know what you're talking about. There were no "last ditch" or "futile" efforts to compete with Christianity, which was still very much a minority religion until the 4-5th century and became gradually dominant after it became preferred by the state after 324. Sorry to break it to you. Just because history happened a certain way does not make it inevitable.
Only just started watching, but I'm so happy that you're talking of Julian and the Restitutor Orbis - Aurealian served and serves as a deep inspiration to me for his acomplishements, a man I aspire to be in my own mind. Thank you, my friend - and Io Saturnalia :)
Hello and thanks :) I share your feelings, how can anyone not admire Julian and Aurelian? Both died too early and their reigns were too short, and both serve as an inspiration to us, their deeds will never be forgotten.
I have one of those 'Restitutor Orbis' coins minted under Aurelian. Though I believe its actually from Antioch now that I think about it and not Rome. Anyway Aurelian was the best.
Correct. *There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.* *"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."* *In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.* *"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]* *This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
@@joellaz9836 There might be no major festival to Sol (Invictus) on December 25th, but : The 25th of December was calculated as the day of the winter solstice by Julius Caesar in his time as Pontifex Maximus. A calendar of the second century AD from the Roman province of Egypt names 25 December as the birthday of the sun (and 22 December as the day of the winter solstice). This is not proof that 25 December already had religious significance, but this day has been associated with the sun since Julius Caesar. The ancient Roman sun god Sol (Indiges) had several holidays during the year: on 27 March, on 9 and 28 August and on 11 December. Not on 25 December, that's true. But 11 December is interesting. The feast of the Catholic saint Saint Lucia is celebrated on 13 December and is also considered to be the day of the winter solstice, presumably because according to old calculations the solstice actually once took place on 13 December. Can it then also not be that 11 December, when the Romans sacrificed to the ancient Roman Sol, was the day of the solstice? The Romans initially had a lunar calendar. It is therefore possible that the new moon once appeared ten or eleven days before the winter solstice and that the ancient Romans therefore celebrated the winter solstice on 11 December... ?
@@Spinnradler An article in Science from 15 or 20 years ago explaines that the star that shined over Betlehem the night our Saviour was born ,that appeared 3 times in the year 7 AD was neither a nova ( that would have been visible every night, nor a comet, that would have traversed the sky for a few days but one time . The "star" was the brillant result of the conjunction of 3 planets, which occured on the spring, the summer and the ( 27) september anno 7 BC. I don' t remind the exact day. The curious fact is that the church did apparently not know the exact date of birth of our Lord, and that it was fixed at the solstice of december, the Christ being the new sun illuminating human history.
The masked helmet comes from the Klivanarii heavy cavalry (evolution of Roman Cataphracts) which Klivanarii had also become the Emperor's personal guard
Until recently Aurelian seemed to have been forgotten with all attention focusing on Diocletian. Diocletian did many great things to consolidate and restructure the Empire but he could not have done so without the stability created by Aurelian.
Most of Diocletian's refirms were either short-sighted or double-edged swords as they weakened it's societal, civil, bureaucratic, and political structure and laid the foundation for the political fragmentation and societal structure of the middle ages in Europe.
I absolutely agree. Mainstream historians love Dicolection because he had his Cincinnatus/George Washington retirement from being Roman Emperor while the greatness of Aurelian & his student Emperor Probus got lost in the dust of history. The success of Diocletian's Tetrarchy was mixed. The smooth succession he had hoped for with his junior emperors did not last. King Charlemagne would indirectly repeat the same cycle later after his death for the Holy Roman Empire with his successors in Francia. Although the method he used for breaking provinces among multiple emperors would continue in various forms, the temptation for emperors to install their children as their co-rulers proved too great into upcoming decades up til the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 A.D and much later establishing the feudal power struggle through the Age of Charlemagne into almost the Late Middle Ages. Diocletian's actions did stabilize the empire for a time, but his ruthlessness in Rome started the chain reaction that would see its own citizens (alongside the purge of Christians) create the schism that would create the division between Western & Eastern Empires.
Gallienus, Auralien, Probus, Diocletian and Constantine all deserve credit for preventing the collapse of the empire. They each carried that burden like a baton, and I think Valentinian was the last emperor who understood that burden. His and Theodosius' families were much more interested in LARPing as the Julio Claudians and playing court politics, which allowed the Late Roman warlords to emerge and take control.
Dec 25th is the first day when we can actually notice that daylight is lengthening. It is revered in many ancient religions and cultures. Of course it provides festivities during a particularly special month in the Roman world as December had always been the month of the revelry of Saturnalia. Thanks for your videos.
I think they said so in Religion for Breakfast on this subject as well, before Aurelian Sol Invictus was celebrated on other times of the year. So probably he wanted Sol Invictus to compete with the Christian celebration on this day. I guess the Mayan's had important celebrations on this day too.
@GGLTM P Yeah, I think no matter which god we had selected, Christ or Sol Invictus, we would have become equally fragmented and indifferent due to modern comforts. Only videos like this and photography makes me survive now, avoid of any kind of meaningful culture.
Actually Winter Solstice is now on 21st December. Moreover, December 25th was never an important day for the Romans. Saturnalia would have been over by that time. And the important festivals for Sol was on August and October, not December. *There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.* *"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."* *In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.* *"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]* *This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
You have the most impressive series of videos on late imperial Roman history . God bless you. We need this information. You have such a colorful way of bringing back to life the very late empire and the visible state of Rome through the centuries. Would love to hear more about the circus Maximus and coliseum conditions as time passed. Every time we are in Rome I go to the Circus Maximus and palatine hill where the palaces stood in all their marbled splendor ! The curved end in the circus is all that survives. They have a virtual reality there which re - creates the entire structure. Awesome. Also the baths of Caracalla and domus aurea
Hello Paul, thank you amicus for your kind words ! It seems then that we both think alike! For me it's the same, every time I go to Rome, I have some favorite areas, the Forum of course, the Palatine Hill, but then the Circus Maximus and the baths of Diocletian and Caracalla are also favorite spots. One can only imagine how it looked back then, it boggles the mind how impressive and splendorous it must have been. VR certainly helps with that. It is a goal for me with this channel but in general in life, to help create a VR simulation of Rome with excellent graphical detail and fidelity, where we can explore all areas of Rome in different times, i.e. from the time of Augustus, to the decay after the gothic wars. Now that would be truly spectacular, and I hope it can be done in some form.
@Maiorianus I love how you naming that small Roman outpost within Raetia allows me to look in up on some maps I have and immidiately realizing which modern location you hinted at. Needless to say you've earned yourself a new sub today...! Vale, frater.
Hello Harry and thanks a lot, then we have a common interest :) I am glad that you could learn a bit from the videos, and I also learn new things all the time.
There is an alternate universe in which Majorian is never assassinated by traitorous scum and goes on to save the sacred Roman Empire just like Aurelian before him.
Well big thanks to Aurelian and Constantine for not having to work on Sundays. While thinking about this, its also fascinating that we still use the old pagan names for the weekdays. Also I think I lived near the same Roman outpost in Reatia a while ago.
Fascinating history about Sol Invictus! I would love to see a follow-up video talking more about the religion of Sol Invictus, what its values and principles were, etc., and how Roman history might have been different if it had prevailed over Christianity, or at least prevented Christianity from becoming an "official religion" of the Empire and stamping out rival beliefs and philosophies.
Sol Invictus is celebrated on the 25th of December because this is when the sun starts rising again. It reaches its lowest point on thre 21st od December, it stays in the same level for three days, and on the 25th of December it starts rising again. Saulists copied this to hijack the festivities, as they did with practically all Pagan festivals.
Have you read Gore Vidal's 'Julian'? It's a work of historical fiction but speaks of the last spark of pagan Rome You are a great writer as well as a detailed historian(and your voice is very relaxing). Thank you for making videos!
Note on the coins of Sol Invictus that Sol carries the globe of the Earth in his gravitational grasp. Yes, the Heliocentric model was well known at this time. This is further confirmed on the Jewish zodiac at Hamat Teverya in Galilee, where Helios holds not just an Earth, but a green-blue spherical Earth. Such was the knowledge on these Judaeo-Sabaean astronomer-priests. Ralph
Yeah people in antiquity knew the earth was round. Aristarchus of Samos forwarded the idea 400 years earlier around 260(ish)BC and it says that the Earth orbits the Sun in Rig Veda. The Rig Veda is dated by academics to have been first created around 1500bc but in reality is probably far older.
Having a Sun as lifegiving entity (which was well known by then, or by anyone having a plant in or near his/her house for that matter) and depicting it as God holding earth in its grasp as ruler of life, is just as plausible. There are no writen sources suggesting that knowledge about a heliocentric solar system was well known. Maybe a handful astronomers believed that, throughout history until copernicus.
So let me get this straight. There is a division in roman ruie/beliefs? Because I was under the impression that the Roman empire was the enemy to all who are not they. I thought the Romans killing masses of ppl in their lands was the only prominent evil... Clearly I'm behooved
Sol Invictus was descended from the elagabal, the sacred stone of Emperor Elagabalus. He was an eastern emperor, a eunuch priest of the elagabal (the benben, omphalos, elagabal), who took his sacred stone to Rome. It was a (metallic) meteorite, linked to the Phoenix as much as the Sun. Its name means Mountain of God, but it was embossed with the Phoenix.) The elagabal went missing after Elagabalus was murdered, but it may have been taken to Fortress Dewa in Britannia. Scottish Templat-Masons say they have it, and call it the Stone of Scone. Ralph
It is also possibly in the Ka'aba as the stone has similar origins. Also it is described as a black meteorite and since the Elagabal is from the east and was housed in Emesa it is possible some Sol Invictus worshippers moved it there
I remember this stone from Religion for Breakfast, but I think they too mentioned that Sol Invictus could have original Roman roots? But I don't remember clearly.
Why couldn’t the source of the cult of Sol be Helios? The Romans were great Philhellenes, it seems the most likely to me, half the Empire was Hellenistic/Hellenic, and they had already adopted the Olympian Pantheon long before.
They can now read the burnt scrolls from the library of Herculaneum. Who knows what we'll find! There are so many works that were lost during the burning of the Library of Alexandria.
I haven't listened to the whole video yet so it might be mentioned in it but Aurelian strongly believed in the philosopher and "prophet" Apollonius of Tyana an almost exact contemporary of Jesus Christ and whose biography written by Philostratus sounds a lot like the life of Jesus Christ.It is recorded that Aurelian spared the city of Tyana Apollonius' birthplace because in the course of his campaign against Zenobia the city had sided with the Palmyrene queen but Apollonius appeared to the emperor in a dream and urged him to spare the city.
I've finally found the time to watch a few of your videos, and I'm thoroughly enjoying them! I'm not very knowledgeable about the finer details of roman history, and I'm very happy to learn more. I'd love for you to talk more about the sources you're using, but that might just be me 🙂 Amazing channel, either way
Also, I know that ReligionForBreakfast has made a video about Sol Invictus and Constantine - have you seen it, and if so, what's your thoughts on his conclusions?
Fun fact about the great Aurelian. Apparently, don't quote me on this, but supposedly, he was one of many Roman emperors descended from Dacians. As a Romanian, I cannot tell you how happy this makes me, assuming it's true. 🇷🇴
@@Alexandros74738 cope and seethe filthy X'ian !!! Sol has taken pity over you and has forgiven your transgressions !! Bask in his mercy and sin no more !! ☀️ 🌞
@anarcho-savagery2097 I was going to insult you, but then I looked at your account and realised that if I had your face, I would kill myself. So kudos for that I guess
"Manu ad Ferrum" Great point, towards end of video, We know so little of history that something as important as Queen Zenobia's death is not known with certainty.
Also the modern world uses the new calendar but if you go to an eastern European country or talk to an Orthodox Christian they go by the Old (Julian) calendar Christmas is on January 7th.
not really, they celebrate in 25th December just like we do, its just that the old Julian calendar is 12 days behind the Gregorian and Revised Julian (used by the Greek Orthodox), so 25th December according to their calendar falls in 7th January according to ours. you might be confunding with the Armenian Apostolic Church though, the Armenians use the Gregorian Calendar, so their days match up, but they actually celebrate Christmas in 6th of January. The reason for that though is not due to competing proposals for Christ's birth, but due to a difference in doctrine, if you look at 6th of January in Catholic and Orthodox Calendar you'll find the answer, there is another important feast that day, the Theophany or Epiphany, that is the day in wich Christ was Baptized by Saint John in the Jordan River. You see, Baptism is seen as when a person is Born in Spirit, rather than simply in flesh, in the early Church many Christians thought that the carnal birth is impious and should not be celebrated, only the "true birth", the baptism, should be celebrated, over time however this notion was seen as having gnostic conotations (gnostics were the early heretics that saw the material world as evil and created by a malicious god to imprison the souls), so it was pushed back and Christmas day, wich recognition can be traced as far back as the early 2nd century, was elevated as a major feast, this move will become evident when you find out the first reference to Christmas as a feast in the Calendar traces back to Saint Hyppolitus in the early 3rd century, and he was a major opponent of gnosticism at the time.
@@221Constantine that's because Russia uses the Gregorian civil calendar, but the Russian Church follows the old Julian, so if you look at the official calendar of your country you are celebrating in 7th January, but in the Ecclesiastical Calendar its 25th December.
@@221Constantine and as i said, in the Greek Orthodox Church we use the Revised Julian Calendar that is synchronous with the Gregorian, so our Christmas is celebrated in 25th December like everyone else
At some point I would love to see a comparison and discussion of the histories of Mithraism and Christianity... there seem to be deep parallels between the older Mithras mythology and later Christian.
Hello brother :) nice to see you here, far away from space related topics, Amicus! Very good suggestion, i have written your suggestion down and will add it to the 200+ topics that are waiting to be discussed XD Anyways, i am just watching your new video on the fusion starship. Excellent work as always! 🙂👍
Man... I am so glad to found your chanel. You really feel it the same way. But alas many of your videos are just painful for me to watch. I know its crazy to be sad about something that happened almost 2000 years ago but screw it. I am writing a novel where history went really different, maybe some day you will read it and like it haha.
STOP IT. Actually there are SEVERAL sources which cognize that Emperor AURELIAN donned the Golden Sol Invictus-inspired NiederBieber helmet and face cover. But am glad to see you also covering some earlier Roman Empire history and religion without being a condescending arse forca second. Much respect your explaining the origins of Orleans, the city of Aurelian. He accomplished what the Underrated great MAJORIAN came so bravely close to doing.
Imagine how sad emperor Julian will be when he finds out that his invasion of the Sassanid empire while be the last large scale invasion that the Roman Empire will ever muster.
I mean, Julian's army may have been the largest invasion of Persia the Romans had mustered since mark antony, and it ended in a disaster. Fielding armies this size often led to disaster. It wasn't the last, either. in 468, Leo I gathered 1,113 ships and a combined eastern and western army of over 100,000 to reconquer Africa. It failed and the state(east and west) was left bankrupt. It was the 3rd attempt. 60 years later, Africa was finally retaken in the 4th attempt with only half a field army.(about 15,000 soldiers and cavalry). In 636, 4 Roman field armies we're combined 100,000 men to fight the Arabs and the commanders bickered about strategy and couldn't coordinate and they were annihilated. In 622-627, the Sassanids were totally beaten deep in their own territory by an army of 25,000.
25 December was celebrated as the first day of the New Solar Year. 22, and 23 December are the two longest nights, (periods of darkness), modern science has verified that the 24th of December begins the New Solar Year, however, the ancient Star-Gazers, who were responsible for announcing "The Return of the Sun" or "Sola Invictus", could not be sure that the day had grown longer, until they witnessed the rise of the sun on December 25th. Thus: "Sola Invictus"; the "Victory of the Sun" could be announced. The 10 day period preceding Sola Invictus, was called "Sarturnalia". This was the commemorating of the ending of the old Solar Year. Rules applied to this celebration: All debts were to be forgiven. Old enemies were to make peace. Servants, and slaves, were to sit at tables, and be served a rich feast by their masters, and small gifts were to be passed out to them. And so, you see the origins of the 12 days of Christmas. In addition we have the origins of the Christion Resurrection Celebration: "The Sun-God, and source of all light, and enlightenment", descended into the Darkness for three nights, December 22, 23, 24, and rose again on the Third Day: 25 December, which was called "Sola Invictus" by Pagan Romans! Thus: Roman Pagan Law, and Tradition, are still at the very root of Western Culture!
4:30 did a small research on the french wikipédia, they say that Orléans (formerly Cenabum) is named after the gens Aurelia, a plebeian major family. emperor Aurelian isn't listed in the family. Care to elaborate ?
Thank you for another interesting and informative video! Some have suggested that the Winter Solstice was chosen by Christians for Christ's birth for the same reason it was chosen by other religions for various celebrations in that it was a significant astrological event for many ancients as was the Spring Equinox which was chosen for Christ's birth. Who knows?! Merry Christmas! All Hail the Undying Sun!
This video is wrong. Christmas is actually older than any celebration for Sol Invictus on 25th December. The most important holidays for Sol were on August and October, not 25th December. Christmas being on 25th December is older than any celebration for Sol Invictus being on 25th December. *There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.* *"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."* *In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.* *"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]* *This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
The theory that Christianity caused the fall of the Western Empire is refuted by both the Crisis of the Third Century and by the Byzantine Empire who flourished, in truth, there were other circumstances
From my pov once they left the pagan Gods the love for the state was gone core values were gone im talking about little things like dignitas and all that Im talking from the point of army mobilizations once the old Gods were gone the number of Roman men in the armies started dwindling over the centuries.
Byzantine empire didn't "flourish". It existed on the fumes of old Rome while debating how many angels fit on the head of the pin. If you want truth, it was Islam that flourished where a few Arab bedouins managed to conquer everything from Spain to India in less than 200 years. Otoh Christians were given the greatest empire ever and what did they do with it?
@@danesovic7585 I mean did you forget the sassanids eventually fell just as quick to the Arabs? Is Christianity to blame for the collapse of the Sassanid empire too? And Christians by the 4th century weren’t given the greatest empire. They weren’t given an empire at its height of power, but an empire already weakened by the crisis of the third century, especially economically.
The comparative religion approach is misleading. Iacintag alluded to, Sol Invictus and Christmas are not really based off of each other. We have sources indicating 25 December for Christmas over 50 years before that date was used for a feast of Sol Invictus, the original Sol holidays being in August and October. Religion for Breakfast did a long and very good video on this- th-cam.com/video/mWgzjwy51kU/w-d-xo.html
This is true. This video is super wrong. Christmas is older. And the most important holidays for Sol were on August and October, not 25th December. *There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.* *"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."* *In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.* *"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]* *This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
@@jackkleinke9232 you are comparing apples to oranges. No one said that this was the first Winter Solstice, but that it was not based on the Sol Invictus holiday.
@@qboxer I’m sorry, I misunderstood! I’m just now diving into this whole sol invictus topic I thought you all were implying Christmas was the first holiday on record for the 25th of December.
Salvete amici. My thoughts on Sol Invictus. To me is quite clear that the true roots of Sol are a mixture of oriental mysticism and western neoplatonism, in the natural trend of the pagan world to seek a more truthful spirituality thru syncretism more a kind maybe as oriental spirituality. Well actually to call it "oriental mysticism" is quite pejorative and I am not making it justice, oriental esotericism is more correct. And no it wasn't as an answer to Christianity that would also diminishes the feat of our ancestor to seek a greater truth. Reading the thoughts of Julian and others about the nature of Sol you can find Hermetic principles and Platonic teachings in it, and also the same ideas and vocabulary you will find in later christian theology. The ideas being that there is one true god Sol which has also the same properties as the Trascendent One, it is infinite and omnipresent and omniscient , creator of the universe and all life, and his nature being The Good, then all goodness coming from him. This sounds familiar already but at that time it was revolutionary and make human beings begin to realise the abstraction of a higher God and it's implications. The true conflict between Sol and Christians is the pathos, for christians was more or less clear, follow the example of Christ and somehow the rest is in the Tora. Yet as late antiquity progresses we see how christianity moves away from Judaism and adopts more and more of Sol and the neoplatonics, but this pathos, how to behave and feel is more concrete for christians than pagans. For neoplatonics and in general pagans, stoicism was the pathos but it was always perceive as to harsh, to difficult to follow and thus the majority of people was unable to reconcile the theory with the practice, debilitating paganism against external aggression. The fundamental problem of that Time is that esoteric teachings of mysteric cults were made public and accesible to tth many instead of the few leading to the rise of religious fanatism that we know today. Yes whether they were the esoteric teachings of Christ or the ones of Trimegistos, the uneducated minds of the many transform the truth in rubbish creating sscenaros like the homicidal madness of the discussion of the nature of the father and the son we later see by the times of Theodosius. I truly recommend to read the stoics, the neoplatonics and the corpus hermeticum to understand the nature of the spirituality of our ancestors, because the truth is still there to be rediscovered. As for Heliogaballus, he look more like a Cenobyte to me. A cultist of some extatic cult where sex and pain was a mean to achieve the conection with the divine, looks too levantine and dark to me to be really related to Sol as depicted by everyone else.
Very good explanation on the nature of Sol Invictus’s real meaning. It was a attempt on explaining the mystical aspects of reality as they were understood by a rational philosophic understanding of the world. A religion of reason we could say
The Cult of Sun Invictus already existed in the mountains of the Persian empire centuries before the Roman Empire / Republic existed. The Cesars were part of the cult, even before Aurelian made it the official god of the empires. The Christians copied the Pegan Romans
Sol Invictus, that is the unconquered Sun, was the religious name used for several deities in the late Roman Empire: El-Gabal, Mitra and Sol. But the sun had already been worshiped in Rome as Apollo and as Elios. The winter solstice in the old Julian calendar fell on December 25 and celebrated the wedding of the longest night with the shortest day. The rebirth of the world. The term solstice comes from the Latin solstitium, which literally means "still sun", because in the northern hemisphere of the earth, in the days from 22 to 24 December, the sun seems to stop in the sky, a phenomenon all the more evident the closer you get to the equator. In that period the sun reaches the point of maximum distance from the equatorial plane, the night reaches the maximum extension and the daylight the minimum. That is, they occur the longest night and the shortest day of the year. Immediately after the solstice, the daylight gradually increases again and the darkness of the night decreases until the summer solstice, in June, with the longest day of the year and the shortest night. The day of the solstice generally falls on the 21st, but due to the apparent inversion of the solar motion it becomes visible on the third / fourth day following. The sun, therefore, in the winter solstice arrives in its weakest phase of light and heat, to become vital and "invincible" on the same darkness. In short, on December 25 the sun is reborn at the new "Christmas" of the year. The winter solstice began to be celebrated already by our ancestors, for example at Stonehenge in Great Britain, and in Ireland, in France, in Iran, and in Val Camonica, in Italy, already in prehistoric and protohistoric times. But December 25 is associated with the birthday or feast day of several pre-Christ deities who inspired the new religion on different sides. The mosaics and frescoes depicting images of Isis sitting holding Horus in her arms with the solar crown on her head seem to have inspired many images of the Madonna and Child with the same characteristic. Thus the cult of Mithra was the most competitive cult to Christianity and with which Christianity merged a little, also because in some myths Mithras had been born of a virgin, had twelve disciples and was nicknamed "the Savior". Thus in Babylon, around 3000 BC, the Babylonian Sun God Shamash was celebrated, and subsequently the Goddess Ishtar with her son Tammuz, considered the incarnation of the Sun. Ishtar was also represented with a halo of 12 stars on his head, like the Madonna, and with the child in her arms, a child who then grew up and died to rise again after three days. In the days of the winter solstice, a ritual festival called Lenaea was held in honor of Dionysus, "the feast of wild women", where the God who "was reborn" as a child after being torn to pieces was celebrated. But it was also the birth day of both Hercules and Adonis. The God Mithras, identified as Sol Invictus by the Roman military among whom he spread widely, was born to a virgin woman on the winter solstice, was worshiped by the shepherds, had twelve disciples, was killed by a spear that pierced his side, and was resurrected after three days. Today Christmas and New Year's Eve represent two different recurrences of which the first is celebrated on December 25th, the other on January 1st. For the Romans the two dates coincided, because Christmas was the “NATALIS SOLIS INVICTI” which marked the cycle of the new year. Aureliano consecrated the temple of Sol Invictus on December 25, 274, in a feast called Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun", making the Sun-God the main deity of his empire and wearing himself a crown to rays. The feast of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti gradually became more and more important as it was grafted onto the oldest Roman feast, the Saturnalia. The Dies Natalis Solis Invicti was included in the Saturnalia festivities that lasted from 17 to 25 December and ended with the Larentalia or festival of the Lares, the tutelary deities in charge of protecting crops, roads, cities and families. I Saturnalia, a religious celebration dedicated to the God Saturn, first Latin agrarian deity, protector of sowing and seeds, and then assimilated to the Greek God Cronos, husband of Rhéa, the "Earth". Emperor Constantine was also a follower of the Sun God, acting as Pontifex Maximus of the Romans. In fact, he depicted the Sol Invictus on his official coinage, with the inscription SOLI INVICTO COMITI, "To the companion Sole Invitto", thus defining the God as a companion of the emperor. - With a decree of 7 March 321 Constantine established that the first day of the week (the day of the Sun, Dies Solis) should be dedicated to rest: " On the venerable day of the sun, let the magistrates and the inhabitants of the cities rest, and let all shops closed. In the countryside, however, people are legally free to continue their work, because it often happens that the harvesting of wheat or the sowing of vineyards cannot be postponed; so be it, for fear that by denying the right moment for such works, the opportune moment, established by heaven, is lost. » The celebration of the Invicting Sun on 25 December is witnessed in the Chronograph of 354 together with the testimony of the Christian Christmas. The first testimony of the celebration of Christian Christmas after the Chronograph of 354 dates back to 380 thanks to the sermons of St. Gregory of Nyssa. - The feast of the birth of Christ, in fact, is not reported in the most ancient calendars of Christian holidays and even later it was celebrated on extremely different dates. During the reign of Licinius, the celebration took place on December 19 , a date perhaps closest to the astronomical solstice in the calendar then in force. In 330 Constantine, although, contrary to what is said, never converted to Christianity, he made the feast of the nativity of Jesus official for the first time, which with a decree was made to coincide with the pagan feast of the birth of Sol Invictus. The "Christmas Invited" thus became the Christian "Christmas". In 337 Pope Julius I made the date of Christmas official on behalf of the Catholic Church, as reported by John Chrysostom in 390: « On this day, December 25, the nativity of Christ was also definitively fixed in Rome . "
Great video, may you make too some topics about early Rome ? The City and its interaction to Othe cities back in time, how Rome won the supremacy among all, Alba Longa etc.
If has you assert the Christianity was fatal for the Roman empire, how the eastern empire survived 1 thousand years more?. The cause for the western fall was basically of economic and demographic nature.
I could've sworn this video title was: "Normally you would be celebrating Sol Invictus right now but there has been a error in the timeline". Did you change it?
Since time immemorial, people, who lived close to Nature and the land, worshiped the Sun as the giver of light, warmth and crops (without it we'd be dead). Due to the tilt of the Earth's axis away from the Sun, one day of the year is the shortest and the night before it is the longest, most cold, and fear-filled. That is the Winter Solstice and it occurs around Dec. 25 of each year. The belief and hope that the Sun will come up again after this longest, darkest night explains he worship of the Sun on this date, whether called the God Apollo (dating from 8th Century BC), Sol Invictus, Lugh, Xihe, or whatever. Ancient sites like Stonehenge (2,500 BC) stand witness to this respect, gratitude, hope, anticipation and love for the Sun's continued appearance after the longest night. And no the Christians didn't pick that date first.
Tbh by the time of majorian and anthemius the roman empire was doing more bad then good. Taxes were awfully high as the massive state needed to suck all morsels of wealth from its people to fund it’s defense, something the smaller, more easily manageable barbarian kingdoms didn’t need as much, people selling their children into slavery just for a few denarii, people selling themselves into slavery to protect themselves against tax collectors. A lot of these problems quickly went away under the barbarian kingdoms. Good on majorian for fighting for a cause he believed in, but the best thing for the empire to do post 454 was to rot away quietly and quickly Also I don’t buy the existence of the supposed “dark ages.”
They were dark ages. Literacy plummeted, technologies disappeared (not in the east, so you can see it was a dark age in the west), trade routes broke down, history was less written, and there is a large historical gap on knowledge during this time in western Europe
@@TomSeliman99 but if you are a subsistence farmer in the late roman empire complex systems of commerce and cool tech wont improve your life as much as proper supply to food, not starving level taxes, and lack of plague (there was less plague in the dark ages than in the late western roman empire)
@@laughsatchungus1461 You when bubonic plague hit, it was the high middle ages and populations were much larger, hence mass graves. In the early middle ages, communities were much much smaller. Rome even had a population of less than 10,000
Hello and thanks a lot, i really appreciate it. I only criticize early Christianity in this video, i do think that current day Christianity is a good thing.
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian ofc and you're propably right, and for even now days if u did i would not blame you. I hope a small portion at least is a good thing. It's nice content you have here, thanks for answer !
Julian kind of ruined the economy despite his short reign *Valentinian and Valens faced a different, less visible type of crisis as well. They had taken over an empire that could not pay the bills previous emperors had accumulated and could not cover the future promises that Julian and Jovian had made. Much of the blame lay with Julian. Julian had cut tribute payments in many different parts of the empire, and he had also forgiven a large number of debts owed the treasury. He led an army of perhaps sixty-five thousand people into Persia, spent a great deal of money supplying it, and promised significant bonuses to his troops during the campaign. In addition to increasing expenses and cutting revenues, Julian reduced the total amount of property that the imperial government owned-an important resource that emperors could use to address food or revenue shortfalls. He returned to temples the properties that Constantine had taken from them, he returned to the cities civic estates that Constantius had taken over, and he gave properties to friends as gifts.* *Even pagan supporters of Julian understood the severity of the situation. Ammianus compared the debts that Valentinian inherited from Julian to those left to the third-century emperor Aurelian (an allusion whose significance would be clearer if the books of Ammianus’s history covering the reign of Aurelian had not been lost) and Eutropius characterized Julian as “having a mediocre concern for the treasury.”* *As sole emperor, Julian also succumbed, as many Roman leaders before him (e.g. Crassus, Trajan, Septimius Severus) to "Alexander the Great syndrome": the desire to emulate the Macedonian general and conquer the Persian empire. He invaded Mesopotamia at the head of an enormous army of 65,000. But the campaign was a disaster: Julian lost his own life and his army was forced to retreat with huge losses. Although most of these would have been from the eastern comitatus and from the emperor's own escort army, the comitatus of Illyricum and Gaul would undoubtedly have been stripped of troops to fill the gaps. The result was that in 366 Gaul was again overrun by Alamanni hordes and Julian's painstaking work of restoration undone. This forced Julian's successor, Valentinian I, to spend years carrying out a virtual replay of Julian's Gallic campaign.*
![เปิดบ้าน โคตรสวย ป๋องกพล รู้จักตั้งนาน เพิ่งรู้ว่ารวย!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tmgCF_2HfYI/mqdefault.jpg)
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"All religions are false. Only Christianity is true." - Christians
so much for your sarcasm, I do obey the edict of Constantine and never shop on a Sunday, the Lord's Day
At the 11:33 Mark.What do you mean by "Flaw in the Timeline"?
Your accent sounds just like the accent I’d imagine an ancient Roman to have! What country are you from?
I would love to see your take on Elagabalus. Like do you think the writings about him which ... to the modern ear and mind make them sound like someone we might call transgender. Including wanting to have a surgically created vagina, are just slander or are they serious? There is the fact the highest priest of Elgabal were castrated, and rome had a sect of priest who did this the Galle. At the same time Rome had a prohibition against that. So were they mixing real practices up and just saying something outrageous or might there have been something to it. (There is also the fact the Romans had a habit of sexualizing what we would now call young males, maybe even minors.)
The assassination of emperor Aurelian is one of the greatest tragedies in Roman history. He achieved so much in just 5 years imagine what he could accomplish if he reigned for longer. On a side note, I am really glad you will be covering earlier periods of Rome. I am interested to hear your view on the crisis of the third century and the Severan dynasty.
Yes third century crud is. He is a god send !
Crisis
Where've I seen you before...
@@Dionaea_floridensis me?
Is it? Some people think it's a given that re-uniting the Roman empire was positive.
I disagree: The Roman empire fell apart 200 years later anyways, but with severely weakend successor states. Gaulle e.g. was much more economically prosperous in the 3rd century than in the 5th.
If the split-up would have occurred in the 3rd century, the successor state _could_ have been able to secure the Danube and the Rhine frontiers and to keep the Sassanids at bay.
Later they could re-unify, this happened to China several times.
Instead, we got Diocletian. He was a titan, but he also implemented a military dictatorship which strangled the economy in the long run and hence made the empire weaker than it had to be.
I won't blame Diocletian for not knowing economy, because nobody did back then.
But I think that splitting up in the 3rd century _could_ have delivered better results, with reduced complexity and hence lower taxes and actual economic growth in the successor states ..
I like how Aurelianus' full name includes the praenomen "Lucius" which means "Light". He truly was the burning light that refused to die and instead fought back against the dark abyss.
Interestingly enough Aurelian might have been the first emperor to actively intervene in Christian affairs as a positive force. During his Palmaryan campaign, Aurelian got a request by Christians to remove Paul of Samosata from Antioch since he was spreading heresy and was a supporter of Zenobia. Aurelian, who was in the area at the time, ordered Paul to leave the bishop’s residence and was banned from Antioch. This is the first recorded time the Christian church would go to the government to settle religious problems
Hello Tangy, and thanks for the excellent comment, that is some really valuable info thare, thanks for sharing !
Actually, the mom of the Emperor Alexander Severus may have been partial to Christians ... this includes a relationship involving Origen showing up at her court.
@@michaeldunne338
I read it was the emperor Phillip the Arab that was first partial to Christians.
@@joellaz9836 the recent biography on Alexander Severus talks about his mom supposedly inviting Origen over to their place in Syria. Its an interesting book: Emperor Alexander Severus: Rome's Age of Insurrection, AD 222-235
Emperor Alexander Severus: Rome's Age of Insurrection, AD 222-235
by John S. McHugh | Jan 24, 2020
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian The little peace of the church is a period of time when persecutions against christianity ceased, from the time of Gallienus until Diocletian. Yes Aurelian also pusued this policy and indeed decreed the removal of Pul of Samosata, thus intervening in the theological disputes of the early Christian Church, in a similar manner to Constantine.
One god
One emperor
One empire!
Praise the sun ☀️
Many gods
@@theguyof360 I empathize with your sentiment. I'd rather think of it less as a monotheistic tendency to venerate a solar deity, and rather a henotheistic one where the solar god is the conquering god of the state. Jupiter was the king of stability and order, but Rome at this time needed a god representing positive action.
@@theguyof360fallen angels, pretending to be gods
@@jas6853 A false God pretending being the real one
@@jas6853 A carpenter pretending to be a god
It's likely that both Aurelian and the Christians chose December 25th independently because it was the traditional Winter Solstice and had cosmic significance.
Saturnalia, which I think was the most important of Roman holidays, was also celebrated around the same time, and it involved giving gifts and involved spreading good cheer. I'm sure over time all of these different festivities merged and evolved intermixing in various ways.
That is also a theory, I have by now read a few different theories on why the 25th was chosen. Fascinating !
Actually, with Christianity, it seems there were some working on some theories of symmetry, with Easter/Passover, the annunciation, etc.
@@Metal0sopher But these folks were really more eastern "Romans" under the loose definition of Roman under the Antonine Constitution ...
Actually the most important Sol invictus festivals were on August and October, not December.
*There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.*
*"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."*
*In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.*
*"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]*
*This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
The Roman cavalry did have masked helmets tho so it's not implausible that he would have worn one
We can still hope and dream, yes :) It would certainly be cool, even though it would have narrowed the vision and might have been quite impractical. But cool? Absolutely !
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian then what about the Crusaders
@@unclesam5230 what about your mom?
@@vladimirputout2461 lmao
If there are no ancient accounts of him wearing a mask, we can safely assume that he didn't wear one and it was made up for dramatic effects like Hollywood.
I appreciate you not censoring yourself and your opinions. It's so refreshing to see in this day and age. Also Thank you for making a video about Sol Invictus, I was curious to learn more about it but there were seldom good sources!
Yes I dont like when historians dont say personal opinions in order to be super "academic". Many time its a pose. If you put some strong opinions it ads some juicy flavor to it.
Hello EsotericRetard, awesome name by the way, haha! Thanks, yes, this might turn out to be a somewhat opinionated channel, and some people will hate that, but hopefully some others such as you will like it :)
@GGLTM P in 312 christians made apx 10% of population. Therefore I dont believe Aurelians primary motive was to fight christianity. Also rise of that religion wasnt unstopable, Constantin made it grow from the top. (English not my primary language so sorry for mistakes)
@@sudetenrider-pili6637
Except historians think so now days. They don’t preclude the possibility of it being so.
*There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.*
*"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."*
*In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.*
*"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]*
*This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
@Glogderp Glogderpson You don't know what you're talking about.
There were no "last ditch" or "futile" efforts to compete with Christianity, which was still very much a minority religion until the 4-5th century and became gradually dominant after it became preferred by the state after 324.
Sorry to break it to you. Just because history happened a certain way does not make it inevitable.
Only just started watching, but I'm so happy that you're talking of Julian and the Restitutor Orbis - Aurealian served and serves as a deep inspiration to me for his acomplishements, a man I aspire to be in my own mind. Thank you, my friend - and Io Saturnalia :)
Hello and thanks :) I share your feelings, how can anyone not admire Julian and Aurelian? Both died too early and their reigns were too short, and both serve as an inspiration to us, their deeds will never be forgotten.
Saturnalia was never on 25th December. It would have been over by now.
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian Aurelian was a military genius but Julian was a very good tactician, but a poor strategist.
I have one of those 'Restitutor Orbis' coins minted under Aurelian. Though I believe its actually from Antioch now that I think about it and not Rome. Anyway Aurelian was the best.
You aspire to murder your boss?
Sol Invictus was originally celebrated much earlier in the year. Only when Christmas became popular did it switch to December
Correct.
*There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.*
*"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."*
*In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.*
*"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]*
*This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
@@joellaz9836 There might be no major festival to Sol (Invictus) on December 25th, but :
The 25th of December was calculated as the day of the winter solstice by Julius Caesar in his time as Pontifex Maximus. A calendar of the second century AD from the Roman province of Egypt names 25 December as the birthday of the sun (and 22 December as the day of the winter solstice). This is not proof that 25 December already had religious significance, but this day has been associated with the sun since Julius Caesar.
The ancient Roman sun god Sol (Indiges) had several holidays during the year: on 27 March, on 9 and 28 August and on 11 December. Not on 25 December, that's true. But 11 December is interesting. The feast of the Catholic saint Saint Lucia is celebrated on 13 December and is also considered to be the day of the winter solstice, presumably because according to old calculations the solstice actually once took place on 13 December. Can it then also not be that 11 December, when the Romans sacrificed to the ancient Roman Sol, was the day of the solstice? The Romans initially had a lunar calendar. It is therefore possible that the new moon once appeared ten or eleven days before the winter solstice and that the ancient Romans therefore celebrated the winter solstice on 11 December... ?
@@Spinnradler
An article in Science from 15 or 20 years ago explaines that the star that shined over Betlehem the night our Saviour was born ,that appeared 3 times in the year 7 AD was neither a nova ( that would have been visible every night, nor a comet, that would have traversed the sky for a few days but one time . The "star" was the brillant result of the conjunction of 3 planets, which occured on the spring, the summer and the ( 27) september anno 7 BC.
I don' t remind the exact day. The curious fact is that the church did apparently not know the exact date of birth of our Lord, and that it was fixed at the solstice of december, the Christ being the new sun illuminating human history.
@@ezzovonachalm9815 The most fitting day in my humble opinion. :-)
The masked helmet comes from the Klivanarii heavy cavalry (evolution of Roman Cataphracts) which Klivanarii had also become the Emperor's personal guard
Until recently Aurelian seemed to have been forgotten with all attention focusing on Diocletian. Diocletian did many great things to consolidate and restructure the Empire but he could not have done so without the stability created by Aurelian.
Most of Diocletian's refirms were either short-sighted or double-edged swords as they weakened it's societal, civil, bureaucratic, and political structure and laid the foundation for the political fragmentation and societal structure of the middle ages in Europe.
I absolutely agree. Mainstream historians love Dicolection because he had his Cincinnatus/George Washington retirement from being Roman Emperor while the greatness of Aurelian & his student Emperor Probus got lost in the dust of history.
The success of Diocletian's Tetrarchy was mixed. The smooth succession he had hoped for with his junior emperors did not last. King Charlemagne would indirectly repeat the same cycle later after his death for the Holy Roman Empire with his successors in Francia.
Although the method he used for breaking provinces among multiple emperors would continue in various forms, the temptation for emperors to install their children as their co-rulers proved too great into upcoming decades up til the Fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 A.D and much later establishing the feudal power struggle through the Age of Charlemagne into almost the Late Middle Ages.
Diocletian's actions did stabilize the empire for a time, but his ruthlessness in Rome started the chain reaction that would see its own citizens (alongside the purge of Christians) create the schism that would create the division between Western & Eastern Empires.
Gallienus, Auralien, Probus, Diocletian and Constantine all deserve credit for preventing the collapse of the empire. They each carried that burden like a baton, and I think Valentinian was the last emperor who understood that burden. His and Theodosius' families were much more interested in LARPing as the Julio Claudians and playing court politics, which allowed the Late Roman warlords to emerge and take control.
Dec 25th is the first day when we can actually notice that daylight is lengthening. It is revered in many ancient religions and cultures. Of course it provides festivities during a particularly special month in the Roman world as December had always been the month of the revelry of Saturnalia. Thanks for your videos.
I think they said so in Religion for Breakfast on this subject as well, before Aurelian Sol Invictus was celebrated on other times of the year. So probably he wanted Sol Invictus to compete with the Christian celebration on this day. I guess the Mayan's had important celebrations on this day too.
@GGLTM P Yeah, I think no matter which god we had selected, Christ or Sol Invictus, we would have become equally fragmented and indifferent due to modern comforts. Only videos like this and photography makes me survive now, avoid of any kind of meaningful culture.
Hello, thanks for sharing :) Yes, it seems that Dec 25th really held a special significance in many cultures.
You mean shortening right? Winter has shorter days.
Actually Winter Solstice is now on 21st December. Moreover, December 25th was never an important day for the Romans. Saturnalia would have been over by that time. And the important festivals for Sol was on August and October, not December.
*There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.*
*"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."*
*In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.*
*"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]*
*This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
Man, this channel is so underrated. I, too, plan on making more videos about ancient Rome, such as the wars between Constantine's sons.
Ave Majoriane.
Praise the Sun! Praise Aurelian, the only Emperor luckier than Augustus and better than Trajan!
I did not know anything about these last pagan emperors. Thank you for your great videos!
You have the most impressive series of videos on late imperial Roman history . God bless you. We need this information. You have such a colorful way of bringing back to life the very late empire and the visible state of Rome through the centuries. Would love to hear more about the circus Maximus and coliseum conditions as time passed. Every time we are in Rome I go to the Circus Maximus and palatine hill where the palaces stood in all their marbled splendor ! The curved end in the circus is all that survives. They have a virtual reality there which re - creates the entire structure. Awesome. Also the baths of Caracalla and domus aurea
Hello Paul, thank you amicus for your kind words ! It seems then that we both think alike! For me it's the same, every time I go to Rome, I have some favorite areas, the Forum of course, the Palatine Hill, but then the Circus Maximus and the baths of Diocletian and Caracalla are also favorite spots. One can only imagine how it looked back then, it boggles the mind how impressive and splendorous it must have been. VR certainly helps with that. It is a goal for me with this channel but in general in life, to help create a VR simulation of Rome with excellent graphical detail and fidelity, where we can explore all areas of Rome in different times, i.e. from the time of Augustus, to the decay after the gothic wars. Now that would be truly spectacular, and I hope it can be done in some form.
@Maiorianus
I love how you naming that small Roman outpost within Raetia allows me to look in up on some maps I have and immidiately realizing which modern location you hinted at. Needless to say you've earned yourself a new sub today...!
Vale, frater.
Excellent! Roman History is something I flatter myself that I know a little about, but I have learnt more from your videos, thank you!
Hello Harry and thanks a lot, then we have a common interest :) I am glad that you could learn a bit from the videos, and I also learn new things all the time.
Does that mean New Orleans means New Aurelian? Because holy shit I already love that city for its food, now I have another reason to love it.
There is also Roman architecture in New Orleans like hibernia tower
In all my years of life it would’ve never occurred to me that my home town was named after one of the most underrated Roman emperors. Hell yeah
NOVA AVRELIANVM
The history and rulers of Rome have always fascinated me because so much of our own civilization is based on that.
Sadly
The Merriest of the Sol Invictus Holiday to All!
Somewhere in an alternate universe, Aurelian survived and Rome evolved into Nilfgaard 🌞
The last part gave me goosebumps. Awesome content.
Your channel is deeply fascinating, so glad I found you! Make sure you branch out to other platforms given how volatile TH-cam is right now
There is an alternate universe in which Majorian is never assassinated by traitorous scum and goes on to save the sacred Roman Empire just like Aurelian before him.
Well big thanks to Aurelian and Constantine for not having to work on Sundays. While thinking about this, its also fascinating that we still use the old pagan names for the weekdays.
Also I think I lived near the same Roman outpost in Reatia a while ago.
Fascinating history about Sol Invictus! I would love to see a follow-up video talking more about the religion of Sol Invictus, what its values and principles were, etc., and how Roman history might have been different if it had prevailed over Christianity, or at least prevented Christianity from becoming an "official religion" of the Empire and stamping out rival beliefs and philosophies.
Excellent content. Thank you for these fascinating videos!
Did you see Religion for Breakfast's breakdown on this subject recently? Fabulous!
Sol Invictus is celebrated on the 25th of December because this is when the sun starts rising again. It reaches its lowest point on thre 21st od December, it stays in the same level for three days, and on the 25th of December it starts rising again. Saulists copied this to hijack the festivities, as they did with practically all Pagan festivals.
Have you read Gore Vidal's 'Julian'? It's a work of historical fiction but speaks of the last spark of pagan Rome
You are a great writer as well as a detailed historian(and your voice is very relaxing). Thank you for making videos!
Note on the coins of Sol Invictus that Sol carries the globe of the Earth in his gravitational grasp. Yes, the Heliocentric model was well known at this time.
This is further confirmed on the Jewish zodiac at Hamat Teverya in Galilee, where Helios holds not just an Earth, but a green-blue spherical Earth. Such was the knowledge on these Judaeo-Sabaean astronomer-priests.
Ralph
Excellent comment and information Ralph, thanks for sharing this, yes indeed, I hadn't even noticed it.
Yeah people in antiquity knew the earth was round.
Aristarchus of Samos forwarded the idea 400 years earlier around 260(ish)BC and it says that the Earth orbits the Sun in Rig Veda.
The Rig Veda is dated by academics to have been first created around 1500bc but in reality is probably far older.
Having a Sun as lifegiving entity (which was well known by then, or by anyone having a plant in or near his/her house for that matter) and depicting it as God holding earth in its grasp as ruler of life, is just as plausible. There are no writen sources suggesting that knowledge about a heliocentric solar system was well known. Maybe a handful astronomers believed that, throughout history until copernicus.
The fact that people actively have started to worship Aurelian and Sol Invictus nowadays shows that the light of good in this world is returning
Worshipping dead people and the sun is good?
@@ryanprosper88 Yes, correct. Sol has gifted his truths upon the earth and we must follow them
@@quartztemplar3676 LARP
The Good of Plato
So let me get this straight. There is a division in roman ruie/beliefs? Because I was under the impression that the Roman empire was the enemy to all who are not they. I thought the Romans killing masses of ppl in their lands was the only prominent evil... Clearly I'm behooved
Sol Invictus was descended from the elagabal, the sacred stone of Emperor Elagabalus. He was an eastern emperor, a eunuch priest of the elagabal (the benben, omphalos, elagabal), who took his sacred stone to Rome. It was a (metallic) meteorite, linked to the Phoenix as much as the Sun. Its name means Mountain of God, but it was embossed with the Phoenix.)
The elagabal went missing after Elagabalus was murdered, but it may have been taken to Fortress Dewa in Britannia. Scottish Templat-Masons say they have it, and call it the Stone of Scone.
Ralph
It is also possibly in the Ka'aba as the stone has similar origins. Also it is described as a black meteorite and since the Elagabal is from the east and was housed in Emesa it is possible some Sol Invictus worshippers moved it there
I remember this stone from Religion for Breakfast, but I think they too mentioned that Sol Invictus could have original Roman roots? But I don't remember clearly.
Why couldn’t the source of the cult of Sol be Helios? The Romans were great Philhellenes, it seems the most likely to me, half the Empire was Hellenistic/Hellenic, and they had already adopted the Olympian Pantheon long before.
Probably because of Eastern influence befoming more prominent.
Thank you for your interesting and original presentations.
They can now read the burnt scrolls from the library of Herculaneum. Who knows what we'll find! There are so many works that were lost during the burning of the Library of Alexandria.
I haven't listened to the whole video yet so it might be mentioned in it but Aurelian strongly believed in the philosopher and "prophet" Apollonius of Tyana an almost exact contemporary of Jesus Christ and whose biography written by Philostratus sounds a lot like the life of Jesus Christ.It is recorded that Aurelian spared the city of Tyana Apollonius' birthplace because in the course of his campaign against Zenobia the city had sided with the Palmyrene queen but Apollonius appeared to the emperor in a dream and urged him to spare the city.
The assassination of Aurelian is a classic case of the devs realizing they made their character too OP and had to get rid of them to balance the game
I would be curious to learn about the rites and beliefs of the cult of Sol Invictus.
I've finally found the time to watch a few of your videos, and I'm thoroughly enjoying them! I'm not very knowledgeable about the finer details of roman history, and I'm very happy to learn more. I'd love for you to talk more about the sources you're using, but that might just be me 🙂 Amazing channel, either way
Also, I know that ReligionForBreakfast has made a video about Sol Invictus and Constantine - have you seen it, and if so, what's your thoughts on his conclusions?
People should be more made aware of this period.
Praise Sol, the true God!
Nice LARP
@@Alexandros74738just look at the sky and you will see him, but where i can see yours?
The fate of Rome was decided as within 80 years of Christianity becoming non-criminalized and the official religion, the Western Roman Empire fell.
so much for your sarcasm, I do obey the edict of Constantine and never shop on a Sunday, the Lord's Day
Fun fact about the great Aurelian. Apparently, don't quote me on this, but supposedly, he was one of many Roman emperors descended from Dacians.
As a Romanian, I cannot tell you how happy this makes me, assuming it's true. 🇷🇴
Virgin Christians are probably screeching that you brought up the Chad Sol Invictus.
Yet the virgins Christians destroyed chad sol invictus and all the other gods lol
@@Alexandros74738 So you're saying your Mythology is superior to an actual celestial deity??? My brother in Sol, you have gone mad lol 😆
@@anarcho-savagery2097 LARP
@@Alexandros74738 cope and seethe filthy X'ian !!! Sol has taken pity over you and has forgiven your transgressions !! Bask in his mercy and sin no more !! ☀️ 🌞
@anarcho-savagery2097 I was going to insult you, but then I looked at your account and realised that if I had your face, I would kill myself. So kudos for that I guess
"Manu ad Ferrum"
Great point, towards end of video,
We know so little of history that something as important as Queen Zenobia's death is not known with certainty.
Love your enthusiasm, it always makes me smile :-)
4:33 By extension, anyone living in New Orleans ought to remember Aurelian also.
December 25: celebrate the birth of the Unconquerable Sun or the birth of the unconquerable Son. In either case, have a joyous day!
Love your channel, we view the darkening ages the exact same way... and share many of the favorite emperors including Julian! keep up the great work 🤟
Also the modern world uses the new calendar but if you go to an eastern European country or talk to an Orthodox Christian they go by the Old (Julian) calendar Christmas is on January 7th.
not really, they celebrate in 25th December just like we do, its just that the old Julian calendar is 12 days behind the Gregorian and Revised Julian (used by the Greek Orthodox), so 25th December according to their calendar falls in 7th January according to ours.
you might be confunding with the Armenian Apostolic Church though, the Armenians use the Gregorian Calendar, so their days match up, but they actually celebrate Christmas in 6th of January. The reason for that though is not due to competing proposals for Christ's birth, but due to a difference in doctrine, if you look at 6th of January in Catholic and Orthodox Calendar you'll find the answer, there is another important feast that day, the Theophany or Epiphany, that is the day in wich Christ was Baptized by Saint John in the Jordan River.
You see, Baptism is seen as when a person is Born in Spirit, rather than simply in flesh, in the early Church many Christians thought that the carnal birth is impious and should not be celebrated, only the "true birth", the baptism, should be celebrated, over time however this notion was seen as having gnostic conotations (gnostics were the early heretics that saw the material world as evil and created by a malicious god to imprison the souls), so it was pushed back and Christmas day, wich recognition can be traced as far back as the early 2nd century, was elevated as a major feast, this move will become evident when you find out the first reference to Christmas as a feast in the Calendar traces back to Saint Hyppolitus in the early 3rd century, and he was a major opponent of gnosticism at the time.
@@thadeusgaspar224 I'm Russian Orthodox Christian Christmas is celebrated January 7th.
@@221Constantine that's because Russia uses the Gregorian civil calendar, but the Russian Church follows the old Julian, so if you look at the official calendar of your country you are celebrating in 7th January, but in the Ecclesiastical Calendar its 25th December.
@@221Constantine and as i said, in the Greek Orthodox Church we use the Revised Julian Calendar that is synchronous with the Gregorian, so our Christmas is celebrated in 25th December like everyone else
At some point I would love to see a comparison and discussion of the histories of Mithraism and Christianity... there seem to be deep parallels between the older Mithras mythology and later Christian.
Hello brother :) nice to see you here, far away from space related topics, Amicus!
Very good suggestion, i have written your suggestion down and will add it to the 200+ topics that are waiting to be discussed XD
Anyways, i am just watching your new video on the fusion starship. Excellent work as always! 🙂👍
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian Amicus fraterno! Fraterni? Hmmm…..
Man... I am so glad to found your chanel. You really feel it the same way. But alas many of your videos are just painful for me to watch. I know its crazy to be sad about something that happened almost 2000 years ago but screw it.
I am writing a novel where history went really different, maybe some day you will read it and like it haha.
0:15 the larp was so bad i started throwing up
So we have to go back in time and take out Rekimer?
Wouldn’t change a thing. Rome was losing its identity
STOP IT. Actually there are SEVERAL sources which cognize that Emperor AURELIAN donned the Golden Sol Invictus-inspired NiederBieber helmet and face cover. But am glad to see you also covering some earlier Roman Empire history and religion without being a condescending arse forca second. Much respect your explaining the origins of Orleans, the city of Aurelian. He accomplished what the Underrated great MAJORIAN came so bravely close to doing.
This makes me happy
Sunday comes from the Germanic goddess Sunna, the sister of Mani (Monday). The sun was worshipped at least since the Bronze age.
In Morroco, berbers still wears Sol like clouths in some ocasions
Amazing work
Imagine how sad emperor Julian will be when he finds out that his invasion of the Sassanid empire while be the last large scale invasion that the Roman Empire will ever muster.
I mean, Julian's army may have been the largest invasion of Persia the Romans had mustered since mark antony, and it ended in a disaster. Fielding armies this size often led to disaster. It wasn't the last, either. in 468, Leo I gathered 1,113 ships and a combined eastern and western army of over 100,000 to reconquer Africa. It failed and the state(east and west) was left bankrupt. It was the 3rd attempt.
60 years later, Africa was finally retaken in the 4th attempt with only half a field army.(about 15,000 soldiers and cavalry).
In 636, 4 Roman field armies we're combined 100,000 men to fight the Arabs and the commanders bickered about strategy and couldn't coordinate and they were annihilated.
In 622-627, the Sassanids were totally beaten deep in their own territory by an army of 25,000.
@@histguy101 correct. This invasion shattered Roman dominance in Armenia.
25 December was celebrated as the first day of the New Solar Year. 22, and 23 December are the two longest nights, (periods of darkness), modern science has verified that the 24th of December begins the New Solar Year, however, the ancient Star-Gazers, who were responsible for announcing "The Return of the Sun" or "Sola Invictus", could not be sure that the day had grown longer, until they witnessed the rise of the sun on December 25th. Thus: "Sola Invictus"; the "Victory of the Sun" could be announced. The 10 day period preceding Sola Invictus, was called "Sarturnalia". This was the commemorating of the ending of the old Solar Year. Rules applied to this celebration: All debts were to be forgiven. Old enemies were to make peace. Servants, and slaves, were to sit at tables, and be served a rich feast by their masters, and small gifts were to be passed out to them. And so, you see the origins of the 12 days of Christmas. In addition we have the origins of the Christion Resurrection Celebration: "The Sun-God, and source of all light, and enlightenment", descended into the Darkness for three nights, December 22, 23, 24, and rose again on the Third Day: 25 December, which was called "Sola Invictus" by Pagan Romans! Thus: Roman Pagan Law, and Tradition, are still at the very root of Western Culture!
4:30 did a small research on the french wikipédia, they say that Orléans (formerly Cenabum) is named after the gens Aurelia, a plebeian major family. emperor Aurelian isn't listed in the family. Care to elaborate ?
Thank you for another interesting and informative video! Some have suggested that the Winter Solstice was chosen by Christians for Christ's birth for the same reason it was chosen by other religions for various celebrations in that it was a significant astrological event for many ancients as was the Spring Equinox which was chosen for Christ's birth. Who knows?! Merry Christmas! All Hail the Undying Sun!
This video is wrong. Christmas is actually older than any celebration for Sol Invictus on 25th December. The most important holidays for Sol were on August and October, not 25th December. Christmas being on 25th December is older than any celebration for Sol Invictus being on 25th December.
*There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.*
*"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."*
*In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.*
*"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]*
*This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
We ought to be reading the bio of Aurelian everywhere.
That's why we pagans lost - even the most dedicated ones do celebrate christmas...
The theory that Christianity caused the fall of the Western Empire is refuted by both the Crisis of the Third Century and by the Byzantine Empire who flourished, in truth, there were other circumstances
From my pov once they left the pagan Gods the love for the state was gone core values were gone im talking about little things like dignitas and all that
Im talking from the point of army mobilizations once the old Gods were gone the number of Roman men in the armies started dwindling over the centuries.
@@benjaminjeff5329 the East does not say so
@@benjaminjeff5329
Well, the western empire was more pagan and less fanatically Christian than the eastern empire, but it fell.
Byzantine empire didn't "flourish". It existed on the fumes of old Rome while debating how many angels fit on the head of the pin. If you want truth, it was Islam that flourished where a few Arab bedouins managed to conquer everything from Spain to India in less than 200 years. Otoh Christians were given the greatest empire ever and what did they do with it?
@@danesovic7585
I mean did you forget the sassanids eventually fell just as quick to the Arabs? Is Christianity to blame for the collapse of the Sassanid empire too?
And Christians by the 4th century weren’t given the greatest empire. They weren’t given an empire at its height of power, but an empire already weakened by the crisis of the third century, especially economically.
The comparative religion approach is misleading. Iacintag alluded to, Sol Invictus and Christmas are not really based off of each other. We have sources indicating 25 December for Christmas over 50 years before that date was used for a feast of Sol Invictus, the original Sol holidays being in August and October.
Religion for Breakfast did a long and very good video on this- th-cam.com/video/mWgzjwy51kU/w-d-xo.html
This is true. This video is super wrong. Christmas is older. And the most important holidays for Sol were on August and October, not 25th December.
*There is no connection to the Roman festivals for Sol Invictus. During the very time that December 25 was adopted widely by the Church as the date of Jesus' birth, the key dates for festive activities in celebration of Sol were in October and August, not December.*
*"This means that in the early fourth century, when Christmas was established by the church on December 25, anyone surveying the calendar of festivities in honour of Sol would identify the period from October 19 to October 22 as far more important than December 25, and the festival of August 28 as far older. If the aim was to “neutralize” the cult of Sol by “taking over” its major festival, December 25th seems the least likely choice."*
*In fact, the only evidence for pagan festivals being held on December 25, is only found in the historical record after December 25 had already been adopted by Christians.*
*"There is quite simply not one iota of explicit evidence for a major festival of Sol on December 25th prior to the establishment of Christmas, nor is there any circumstantial evidence that there was likely to have been one." [10]*
*This suggests that pagans were attempting to claim the date as a reaction to Christian religion, rather than the other way around. "On the evidence currently available we cannot exclude the possibility that, for instance, the 30 chariot races held in honor of Sol on December 25 were instituted in reaction to the Christian claim of December 25 as the birthday of Christ." [11]*
You guys are severely mistaken if you think Christianity was the first to make the winter solstice a holiday lol
@@jackkleinke9232 you are comparing apples to oranges. No one said that this was the first Winter Solstice, but that it was not based on the Sol Invictus holiday.
@@qboxer I’m sorry, I misunderstood! I’m just now diving into this whole sol invictus topic I thought you all were implying Christmas was the first holiday on record for the 25th of December.
@@jackkleinke9232 Not a problem at all. In any case, Happy New Year
Salvete amici. My thoughts on Sol Invictus. To me is quite clear that the true roots of Sol are a mixture of oriental mysticism and western neoplatonism, in the natural trend of the pagan world to seek a more truthful spirituality thru syncretism more a kind maybe as oriental spirituality. Well actually to call it "oriental mysticism" is quite pejorative and I am not making it justice, oriental esotericism is more correct. And no it wasn't as an answer to Christianity that would also diminishes the feat of our ancestor to seek a greater truth. Reading the thoughts of Julian and others about the nature of Sol you can find Hermetic principles and Platonic teachings in it, and also the same ideas and vocabulary you will find in later christian theology. The ideas being that there is one true god Sol which has also the same properties as the Trascendent One, it is infinite and omnipresent and omniscient , creator of the universe and all life, and his nature being The Good, then all goodness coming from him. This sounds familiar already but at that time it was revolutionary and make human beings begin to realise the abstraction of a higher God and it's implications. The true conflict between Sol and Christians is the pathos, for christians was more or less clear, follow the example of Christ and somehow the rest is in the Tora. Yet as late antiquity progresses we see how christianity moves away from Judaism and adopts more and more of Sol and the neoplatonics, but this pathos, how to behave and feel is more concrete for christians than pagans. For neoplatonics and in general pagans, stoicism was the pathos but it was always perceive as to harsh, to difficult to follow and thus the majority of people was unable to reconcile the theory with the practice, debilitating paganism against external aggression. The fundamental problem of that Time is that esoteric teachings of mysteric cults were made public and accesible to tth many instead of the few leading to the rise of religious fanatism that we know today. Yes whether they were the esoteric teachings of Christ or the ones of Trimegistos, the uneducated minds of the many transform the truth in rubbish creating sscenaros like the homicidal madness of the discussion of the nature of the father and the son we later see by the times of Theodosius. I truly recommend to read the stoics, the neoplatonics and the corpus hermeticum to understand the nature of the spirituality of our ancestors, because the truth is still there to be rediscovered.
As for Heliogaballus, he look more like a Cenobyte to me. A cultist of some extatic cult where sex and pain was a mean to achieve the conection with the divine, looks too levantine and dark to me to be really related to Sol as depicted by everyone else.
Very good explanation on the nature of Sol Invictus’s real meaning. It was a attempt on explaining the mystical aspects of reality as they were understood by a rational philosophic understanding of the world.
A religion of reason we could say
The Cult of Sun Invictus already existed in the mountains of the Persian empire centuries before the Roman Empire / Republic existed. The Cesars were part of the cult, even before Aurelian made it the official god of the empires. The Christians copied the Pegan Romans
Excellent video very educational 👏 thanks for sharing 😌 left a like on the video 📸
It’s one of those interesting butterfly effects you think about. What if sol invictvs became the dominate religion of the west
Sol Invictus, that is the unconquered Sun, was the religious name used for several deities in the late Roman Empire: El-Gabal, Mitra and Sol. But the sun had already been worshiped in Rome as Apollo and as Elios.
The winter solstice in the old Julian calendar fell on December 25 and celebrated the wedding of the longest night with the shortest day. The rebirth of the world.
The term solstice comes from the Latin solstitium, which literally means "still sun", because in the northern hemisphere of the earth, in the days from 22 to 24 December, the sun seems to stop in the sky, a phenomenon all the more evident the closer you get to the equator.
In that period the sun reaches the point of maximum distance from the equatorial plane, the night reaches the maximum extension and the daylight the minimum. That is, they occur the longest night and the shortest day of the year.
Immediately after the solstice, the daylight gradually increases again and the darkness of the night decreases until the summer solstice, in June, with the longest day of the year and the shortest night. The day of the solstice generally falls on the 21st, but due to the apparent inversion of the solar motion it becomes visible on the third / fourth day following. The sun, therefore, in the winter solstice arrives in its weakest phase of light and heat, to become vital and "invincible" on the same darkness. In short, on December 25 the sun is reborn at the new "Christmas" of the year.
The winter solstice began to be celebrated already by our ancestors, for example at Stonehenge in Great Britain, and in Ireland, in France, in Iran, and in Val Camonica, in Italy, already in prehistoric and protohistoric times.
But December 25 is associated with the birthday or feast day of several pre-Christ deities who inspired the new religion on different sides.
The mosaics and frescoes depicting images of Isis sitting holding Horus in her arms with the solar crown on her head seem to have inspired many images of the Madonna and Child with the same characteristic.
Thus the cult of Mithra was the most competitive cult to Christianity and with which Christianity merged a little, also because in some myths Mithras had been born of a virgin, had twelve disciples and was nicknamed "the Savior".
Thus in Babylon, around 3000 BC, the Babylonian Sun God Shamash was celebrated, and subsequently the Goddess Ishtar with her son Tammuz, considered the incarnation of the Sun. Ishtar was also represented with a halo of 12 stars on his head, like the Madonna, and with the child in her arms, a child who then grew up and died to rise again after three days.
In the days of the winter solstice, a ritual festival called Lenaea was held in honor of Dionysus, "the feast of wild women", where the God who "was reborn" as a child after being torn to pieces was celebrated. But it was also the birth day of both Hercules and Adonis.
The God Mithras, identified as Sol Invictus by the Roman military among whom he spread widely, was born to a virgin woman on the winter solstice, was worshiped by the shepherds, had twelve disciples, was killed by a spear that pierced his side, and was resurrected after three days.
Today Christmas and New Year's Eve represent two different recurrences of which the first is celebrated on December 25th, the other on January 1st. For the Romans the two dates coincided, because Christmas was the “NATALIS SOLIS INVICTI” which marked the cycle of the new year.
Aureliano consecrated the temple of Sol Invictus on December 25, 274, in a feast called Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "Day of the birth of the Unconquered Sun", making the Sun-God the main deity of his empire and wearing himself a crown to rays. The feast of Dies Natalis Solis Invicti gradually became more and more important as it was grafted onto the oldest Roman feast, the Saturnalia.
The Dies Natalis Solis Invicti was included in the Saturnalia festivities that lasted from 17 to 25 December and ended with the Larentalia or festival of the Lares, the tutelary deities in charge of protecting crops, roads, cities and families. I Saturnalia, a religious celebration dedicated to the God Saturn, first Latin agrarian deity, protector of sowing and seeds, and then assimilated to the Greek God Cronos, husband of Rhéa, the "Earth".
Emperor Constantine was also a follower of the Sun God, acting as Pontifex Maximus of the Romans. In fact, he depicted the Sol Invictus on his official coinage, with the inscription SOLI INVICTO COMITI, "To the companion Sole Invitto", thus defining the God as a companion of the emperor.
- With a decree of 7 March 321 Constantine established that the first day of the week (the day of the Sun, Dies Solis) should be dedicated to rest:
" On the venerable day of the sun, let the magistrates and the inhabitants of the cities rest, and let all shops closed. In the countryside, however, people are legally free to continue their work, because it often happens that the harvesting of wheat or the sowing of vineyards cannot be postponed; so be it, for fear that by denying the right moment for such works, the opportune moment, established by heaven, is lost. »
The celebration of the Invicting Sun on 25 December is witnessed in the Chronograph of 354 together with the testimony of the Christian Christmas. The first testimony of the celebration of Christian Christmas after the Chronograph of 354 dates back to 380 thanks to the sermons of St. Gregory of Nyssa.
- The feast of the birth of Christ, in fact, is not reported in the most ancient calendars of Christian holidays and even later it was celebrated on extremely different dates. During the reign of Licinius, the celebration took place on December 19 , a date perhaps closest to the astronomical solstice in the calendar then in force.
In 330 Constantine, although, contrary to what is said, never converted to Christianity, he made the feast of the nativity of Jesus official for the first time, which with a decree was made to coincide with the pagan feast of the birth of Sol Invictus. The "Christmas Invited" thus became the Christian "Christmas".
In 337 Pope Julius I made the date of Christmas official on behalf of the Catholic Church, as reported by John Chrysostom in 390:
« On this day, December 25, the nativity of Christ was also definitively fixed in Rome . "
What! This is even surpassing Religion for Breakfast's breakdown on this subject for Christmas! You should make a video too!
Great video, may you make too some topics about early Rome ? The City and its interaction to Othe cities back in time, how Rome won the supremacy among all, Alba Longa etc.
We still are a greco-roman culture and civilization.
If has you assert the Christianity was fatal for the Roman empire, how the eastern empire survived 1 thousand years more?. The cause for the western fall was basically of economic and demographic nature.
I could've sworn this video title was: "Normally you would be celebrating Sol Invictus right now but there has been a error in the timeline". Did you change it?
Sol invictus became the celebrated foundation for Christianity. Emperor Aurelian was first emperor to create that celebrate day.
Aurilian: Praise the Sun!
Ave! I'm in awe!
Since time immemorial, people, who lived close to Nature and the land, worshiped the Sun as the giver of light, warmth and crops (without it we'd be dead). Due to the tilt of the Earth's axis away from the Sun, one day of the year is the shortest and the night before it is the longest, most cold, and fear-filled. That is the Winter Solstice and it occurs around Dec. 25 of each year. The belief and hope that the Sun will come up again after this longest, darkest night explains he worship of the Sun on this date, whether called the God Apollo (dating from 8th Century BC), Sol Invictus, Lugh, Xihe, or whatever. Ancient sites like Stonehenge (2,500 BC) stand witness to this respect, gratitude, hope, anticipation and love for the Sun's continued appearance after the longest night. And no the Christians didn't pick that date first.
Tbh by the time of majorian and anthemius the roman empire was doing more bad then good. Taxes were awfully high as the massive state needed to suck all morsels of wealth from its people to fund it’s defense, something the smaller, more easily manageable barbarian kingdoms didn’t need as much, people selling their children into slavery just for a few denarii, people selling themselves into slavery to protect themselves against tax collectors. A lot of these problems quickly went away under the barbarian kingdoms. Good on majorian for fighting for a cause he believed in, but the best thing for the empire to do post 454 was to rot away quietly and quickly
Also I don’t buy the existence of the supposed “dark ages.”
They were dark ages. Literacy plummeted, technologies disappeared (not in the east, so you can see it was a dark age in the west), trade routes broke down, history was less written, and there is a large historical gap on knowledge during this time in western Europe
@@TomSeliman99 but if you are a subsistence farmer in the late roman empire complex systems of commerce and cool tech wont improve your life as much as proper supply to food, not starving level taxes, and lack of plague (there was less plague in the dark ages than in the late western roman empire)
@@laughsatchungus1461 How do you know if there was plague or not if hardly any sources are written and communtities were extremely more isolated?
@@TomSeliman99 archeological evidence boi
@@laughsatchungus1461 You when bubonic plague hit, it was the high middle ages and populations were much larger, hence mass graves. In the early middle ages, communities were much much smaller. Rome even had a population of less than 10,000
Christianity had helped the Eastern Roman Empire - to last another 1000 years after fall of Western Roman Empire, so it is not to blame for its fall
R E S T I T V T O R O R B I S
Can you do how far declined was the city of Constantinople from the sack of 1204 to the fall in 1453?
"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
Aurelian was the man in the iron mask.
True chad. Could eradicated christiandom as a whole for sol invictus. But it wasn't to be
Constantine: no shopping on Sunday
Vikings: haha... Sunday shopping goes brrrrr....
As a Finnish Christian, also consider you a friend. Thank you for the video
Hello and thanks a lot, i really appreciate it. I only criticize early Christianity in this video, i do think that current day Christianity is a good thing.
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian ofc and you're propably right, and for even now days if u did i would not blame you. I hope a small portion at least is a good thing. It's nice content you have here, thanks for answer !
@@Maiorianus_Sebastian - no early Christianity then no later Christianity. why do you critise?
@@marcokite Because it destroyed a lot of classic culture and information
Aurelian: "Paganism going boom!!"
Constantine: "Sqish, sqish. Your Paganism is suck. Ave Christus Rex"
In Constantine's time, Aurelian was seen as having planned a persecution of Christians when he died. This is disputed by others though.
"Laughs in Victorious Constantine"
Virgin Julian VS the Chad Theodosius
Julian kind of ruined the economy despite his short reign
*Valentinian and Valens faced a different, less visible type of crisis as well. They had taken over an empire that could not pay the bills previous emperors had accumulated and could not cover the future promises that Julian and Jovian had made. Much of the blame lay with Julian. Julian had cut tribute payments in many different parts of the empire, and he had also forgiven a large number of debts owed the treasury. He led an army of perhaps sixty-five thousand people into Persia, spent a great deal of money supplying it, and promised significant bonuses to his troops during the campaign. In addition to increasing expenses and cutting revenues, Julian reduced the total amount of property that the imperial government owned-an important resource that emperors could use to address food or revenue shortfalls. He returned to temples the properties that Constantine had taken from them, he returned to the cities civic estates that Constantius had taken over, and he gave properties to friends as gifts.*
*Even pagan supporters of Julian understood the severity of the situation. Ammianus compared the debts that Valentinian inherited from Julian to those left to the third-century emperor Aurelian (an allusion whose significance would be clearer if the books of Ammianus’s history covering the reign of Aurelian had not been lost) and Eutropius characterized Julian as “having a mediocre concern for the treasury.”*
*As sole emperor, Julian also succumbed, as many Roman leaders before him (e.g. Crassus, Trajan, Septimius Severus) to "Alexander the Great syndrome": the desire to emulate the Macedonian general and conquer the Persian empire. He invaded Mesopotamia at the head of an enormous army of 65,000. But the campaign was a disaster: Julian lost his own life and his army was forced to retreat with huge losses. Although most of these would have been from the eastern comitatus and from the emperor's own escort army, the comitatus of Illyricum and Gaul would undoubtedly have been stripped of troops to fill the gaps. The result was that in 366 Gaul was again overrun by Alamanni hordes and Julian's painstaking work of restoration undone. This forced Julian's successor, Valentinian I, to spend years carrying out a virtual replay of Julian's Gallic campaign.*
Which looks to be what the Statue of Liberty 🗽 stands for besides freedom. Happy Sol Invictus
If Aurelian wasn't assassinated, this comment section would have been in Latin
I thought Mithras was associated with Dec. 25th.
Praise DEVS!