How Games Have Worked for 30 Years to Do Less Work

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
  • We explore the evolution of culling and visibility determination in video games, building on work started over 30 years ago, and evolving with every generation of hardware.
    Gamedev Courses: simondev.teachable.com/
    Support me on Patreon: / simondevyt
    Follow me on:
    Instagram: / beer_and_code
    Twitter: / iced_coffee_dev
    In this video, I implement some of the various visibility techniques used by AAA games like Just Cause 2, Battlefield, and Splinter Cell, and others. We walk through the history of GDC presentations, and see how the techniques have evolved to what's considered state of the art today.
    References talks:
    advances.realtimerendering.co...
    advances.realtimerendering.co...
    gamma.cs.unc.edu/papers/docum...
    developer.nvidia.com/gpugems/...
    www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/...
    blog.paavo.me/cities-skylines...
    www.humus.name/Articles/Perss...
    www.ea.com/frostbite/news/cul...
    www.guerrilla-games.com/read/...
    blog.selfshadow.com/publicati...
    www.selfshadow.com/talks/rwc_...
    aras-p.info/texts/D3D9GPUHack...
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ความคิดเห็น • 851

  • @simondev758
    @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +81

    Patrons can now vote for the next video! Thank you for your support.
    Patreon: www.patreon.com/simondevyt
    Courses: simondev.io

    • @mysticjedi6730
      @mysticjedi6730 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      When DARPA s brain modem allows us to enter the matrix and fly like superman and experience snatching we want all this hard work on simulation rendering will really pay off.

    • @Sedokun
      @Sedokun 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you for the video. I want to point out that after 17:03 the captions went nuts.

    • @Ohiseehowitis
      @Ohiseehowitis 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Your a very good teacher straight facts easy to understand and a calming voice..🎉

    • @Polaroid64
      @Polaroid64 หลายเดือนก่อน

      U r sick

  • @classydays43
    @classydays43 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2420

    I can tell you're a developer because you sound like you haven't slept in six years. That was an amazing explanation, so kudos on your tireless efforts.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +722

      The not-sleeping thing is more from my kids

    • @CrowdContr0l
      @CrowdContr0l 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +32

      Sounds like Jason from “Home Movies” lol

    • @firkinflamer8604
      @firkinflamer8604 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      I can mostly tell from the name

    • @kylepop7912
      @kylepop7912 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      yee i was gonna say john benjamin @@CrowdContr0l

    • @werty2172
      @werty2172 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      Thats some bs stereotype for devs. U make shitty code if u dont sleep well

  • @MrHamof
    @MrHamof 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +685

    8:48 What's interesting here is that for the Portal64 project (Portal port to the N64) the dev decided to skip having a depth buffer and instead sort things from furthest away to closest using the CPU. The reason for this is that the N64 has extremely limited memory bandwidth and also more CPU cycles than it can use. So he'd rather spend CPU power sorting things than clear/write 32 bits of depth data to every pixel every frame. it does also help that the nature of Portals maps makes it really easy to cull things, anything that's not in the same room or in a room that's visible through a portal, open door or window can be culled without even thinking about it.
    I don't think he mentioned this in his video, but given the game is running at 320x240 this presumably also saved him 150kb of memory. A not insignificant amount when he has 4mb total to work with.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +348

      Yep, it's called Painter's Algorithm, and it was commonly used in the era before depth buffers. The whole era before modern hardware is really cool, and needs it's own set of videos! heh

    • @drahsid2
      @drahsid2 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +27

      An important clarification here, the portal64 example is per display list, and not per triangle.

    • @Chrome_Cat
      @Chrome_Cat 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You should see what the community of 3D creators on Scratch have come up with to overcome the computational limitations of scratch it's wild stuff! Painters algorithm and BSP enhanced painters is common place!

    • @keiyakins
      @keiyakins 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +32

      Working on the N64 is weird in general. the rambus is so ludicrously slow compared to the rest of the system that you end up having to do a lot of stuff downright backwards compared even to contemporary systems.
      It also makes me really appreciate modern development tools, because you look at the internals of games like Mario 64 and its pretty clear they were optimizing blind, without being able to actually measure what was taking the most time, or even whether certain changes were helpful or harmful.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +48

      Crazy, I've heard stories about the older architectures being super strange. I landed on the tail end of ps2, which was apparently a total nightmare to work with as well. Never knew any N64 people, but watching some of @KazeN64 videos makes it look super interesting.

  • @ImPDK
    @ImPDK 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +241

    I LOVED Prototype growing up. Super cool that I just stumbled across a dev on youtube. Your channel is great btw

    • @minhuang8848
      @minhuang8848 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

      The power creep was so fun, really made you feel like a trillion-dollar bio weapon

    • @courtneyricherson2728
      @courtneyricherson2728 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      I've always wanted to find and thank a dev for Prototype. That game and the next were amazing and the ability to bring destruction to the town was amazing. Thank you all

    • @444aidan
      @444aidan 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      that game made so many memories for me. thank you, Simon, and the entire team on Prototype.

    • @techpriest6962
      @techpriest6962 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@courtneyricherson2728 I was a bit disappointed with the story direction of the 2nd game.
      It really felt forced to make Mercer the villain instead of just apathetic. So they should have (in my OP) went with something or someone else as the villain.

  • @soejrd24978
    @soejrd24978 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +405

    I rarely do any game development, but love your content! It's good stuff. You and Acerola have become one of my favourites to watch and learn about how these digital worlds come about.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +111

      I love Acerola's content too!

    • @arcalypse1101
      @arcalypse1101 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

      I came here to say the same Acerola and Simon are the goats!

    • @gloverelaxis
      @gloverelaxis 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      same. I think graphics programming has a lot to teach about programming in general, especially math and the performance of algorithms, and it intrinsically visualises the thing our program is manipulating, which naturally lends itself to clear educational content and a tight feedback loop for problem-solving and evaluating our methods

    • @gamedevjobesch4380
      @gamedevjobesch4380 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      -but when I do… it’s Dos Equis.

    • @steluste
      @steluste 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      ​@@arcalypse1101let's not forget Sebastian Lague

  • @1InVader1
    @1InVader1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +93

    This video is insane. All the stuff I was looking for for years on the internet, just made available in a simple, condensed, purpose-made effective educational video with no fluff. Thank you so much. If only every teacher was this good (and every research paper was readable).

    • @1InVader1
      @1InVader1 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@leeroyjenkins0 indeed, it builds really well onto foundations you gain from uni. Now the problem is just time. Even the doctor's degree genius programmers and the studios spent decades iteratively developing and adding these algorithms to the game engines with each new game. Building a new game engine just seems like such a daunting, massive task. And that's just the rendering side of things! You still gotta create tools on top of that to be able to work with your engine. Modifying existing game engines like UE might be the way to go (Deep Rock Galactic devs chose this route), but even then, you gotta know the engine pretty well, which is stupidly specialized knowledge, as well as know the algorithms involved.

    • @fisshbone
      @fisshbone 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Not to mention he got H John Benjamin to narrate the whole video

    • @rykehuss3435
      @rykehuss3435 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@1InVader1 Building a new game engine isnt a daunting massive task, unless you want to compete with UE or Unity.

    • @1InVader1
      @1InVader1 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@rykehuss3435 it only makes sense to make one if you want to do something that those others don't do as well (destruction, voxels...). If you want to do the same, or anything less, what's the point? UE already exists, made by people smarter than you, might as well use it.

    • @rykehuss3435
      @rykehuss3435 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@1InVader1 I agree

  • @simonbarton3295
    @simonbarton3295 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +88

    I guess the reason why Cities Skylines 2 does not bother with occlusion culling is that in a top-down perspective there are simply not many objects behind each other (in contrast to e.g. a 3rd person game).

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +61

      I feel like you'd still benefit heavily, depending on the shot. When the camera is overhead, the amount of "stuff" is naturally constrained to an extremely small area, thus your occlusion needs aren't high anyway, vs when the camera is lower.
      But this is mostly conjecture, so take it for what it's worth.

    • @alexatkin
      @alexatkin 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      @@simondev758 Its an interesting thing to think about, as a lot of simulation games have had this problem where once you zoom in to look at closer detail, performance tanked.
      However its especially problematic in Skylines given its a game that encourages you to zoom in to street level, why else make it so detailed? Seems like a big goof not to realise that's going to be problematic.

  • @zeppie_
    @zeppie_ 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +48

    I literally had the thoughts of "oh, so you can compare foreground and background objects in screen-space" and "you don't have a depth buffer yet, but you have the one from last frame" before those subjects came to be implemented in the demonstations. The examples were really well explained and very intuitive thanks to the visuals!

  • @Le_Petit_Lapin
    @Le_Petit_Lapin 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +46

    The speed at which it does all the calculations of what should be drawn and what shouldn't always blows my mind.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

      A lot of the HZB ones can be done in less than a couple ms.

    • @edzymods
      @edzymods หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That's because you're thinking of it as physical real world objects. When you think of it as data in a notepad file, all the computer is doing is reading very quickly.

  • @TommyLikeTom
    @TommyLikeTom 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +69

    I'm currently making a 2D game and it kind of blows my mind that the tradeoff of not drawing objects is worth the time it takes to check what should be culled every single frame. Surely simply checking which objects should be culled is a massive processing task

    • @RandomGeometryDashStuff
      @RandomGeometryDashStuff 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +33

      > Surely simply checking which objects should be culled is a massive processing task
      worth it if drawing object is a lot more massive task

    • @HenryLoenwind
      @HenryLoenwind 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      To be fair, if those objects have a simple geometry and only a texture, culling on single objects does cost way more than not. For example, in Minecraft you wouldn't want to run culling calculations for every single block. But as objects got more and more complex and shaders entered the picture, that shifted.

    • @rosen8757
      @rosen8757 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      In a 2D game you don have to check any objects, just have your world in a grid (2d array), then the culling is just your for-loop which ony iterates through the part of the grid which is visible on the screen.

    • @TommyLikeTom
      @TommyLikeTom 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Well actually it would be worth it if drawing object is a lot more massive task than sorting _and_ drawing the remaining stuff, so the workload is actually got two parts to it @@RandomGeometryDashStuff

    • @atlev
      @atlev หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@rosen8757 Thanks for this, I'll be implementing it in my engine.

  • @RiversJ
    @RiversJ 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +81

    That's a pretty darn great summary for beginners, did this for 3 years myself and it's definitely one of the more challenging yet fun programming fields there are!
    P.s. i trawled through hundreds of pages of documentations and papers with no friendly youtube video to guide, you still can't avoid that really if you want to become actually good at this, but do watch the video to get an overview.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

      Hah, yeah if you could become an expert off a 20 minute youtube video, that'd be great. No shortcuts unfortunately.

  • @GES1985
    @GES1985 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    You're a great teacher. There are only a handful of good youtube channels where you can actually digest the content. This video is gold.

  • @kalelsoffspring
    @kalelsoffspring 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +59

    Optimizing CPU performance is something I enjoy doing a lot, very interesting to see how optimizing GPU operations is done. Loved this!
    Also makes me grateful for game engines which mostly do this for you already haha, not sure I'd want to do this from scratch unless I really needed to get extra frames

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      The fun part of being a graphics engineer is that you end up doing a tonne of both CPU and GPU optimization.

  • @Wardyworlds
    @Wardyworlds 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Glad I found this again because I wanted to let everyone know it's better than a bedtime story, I fell asleep watching and listening this and woke up to a dead phone with flat battery. Best sleep in ages.

    • @Wardyworlds
      @Wardyworlds 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I've watched it all this time and found it very interesting.

  • @nullptr.
    @nullptr. 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Your channel is an absolute gem, so many high quality videos about topics that are really hard to find online. Thanks.

  • @cognisent_
    @cognisent_ 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This is definitely my new favorite of your videos. It's endlessly fascinating to me to hear about the crazy things that are done in rendering pipelines. I love the GDC presentations where they dig into the minutiae of their rendering customizations.

  • @a.j.alvarez6981
    @a.j.alvarez6981 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Prototype was hands down my favorite game when it came out, and years after. So many days coming home from a crappy shift to take out my frustration on the zombies/soldiers/citizens/mutants of New York. Thanks for the memories.

  • @zachariahm.kemper7406
    @zachariahm.kemper7406 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Prototype is one of my favorites games, both of them, I hope the source code gets leaked so we can get better mods, since it doesnt feel like we're getting a new one

  • @Klosterhasi
    @Klosterhasi 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    i hope youll read this, because this video has really inspired me. not only do you explain things in a really easy to understand way, you also carve out a value system of things. "this is easy. not that complicated. not a mystery really" these really help to get a feel for the underlying relationship of all the different approaches (and systems) that you would only get in a 1on1 conversation. thank you for showing its possible! great video

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Honestly a lot of gamedev isn't super complex, but presented in weirdly convoluted ways.

  • @RafaelShepard
    @RafaelShepard 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Hi Simon, I've been following you on TH-cam for a couple of years and I'm very inspired by computer graphics and game development, currently making a game on Phaser 3. Thank you for explaining interesting techniques and sharing your incredible experience, I learned a lot thanks to you

  • @theencore398
    @theencore398 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Ohhhh dev who worked on prototype teaching me game dev, i feel so bleesed. I absolutely loved that game, and still love it, thank you for putting in so much effirt behind it. And thank you for these amazing teaching, keep it up man, much love and respect.

  • @engrfka
    @engrfka 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    As a mechanical engineer i like how you kept this simple yet technical in terms of explanation. This is a skill in itself. You got yourself a new subscriber! Keep it up my man

  • @neovov
    @neovov 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Explaining major breakthroughs in game industry for a given problem is so interesting! Thanks a lot Simon and keep up the good work!

  • @moopshock
    @moopshock 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You do a great job of explaining abstract concepts in a clear and concrete way, thank you.

  • @ktvx.94
    @ktvx.94 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    I'm a dev myself and I gotta say, 90% of this was new info and the last 10% of the new info kinda flew over my head a little. This is amazing, thanks a lot. It's not often that we get to see the nitty gritty inside stuff that you don't directly work with.

  • @krismort42
    @krismort42 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Somehow you manage to "destress" me while teaching what could seem like a complex topic but you manage to break it down so it seems so simple. I like your javascript projects and I have converted some of them to typescript.

    • @SiisKolkytEuroo
      @SiisKolkytEuroo 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I read that as _distress_

  • @djp1234
    @djp1234 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +55

    There needs to be a VR game engine that only renders nearby objects twice (for the left & right eye) and far away objects once, because far away objects don't need stereoscopic vision. This would would save resources and improve performance.

    • @DeusExtra
      @DeusExtra 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      That's pretty clever. I'm curious about how it would perform

    • @DeusExtra
      @DeusExtra 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

      Since distant objects are more likely to change less pixels per frame, you could render far away objects with a lower frame rate as billboards. And then if necessary smooth the movement by shifting the billboards in between their frames. Then, with the saved performance, maybe you could even render important objects at a higher resolution than they would be normally at such a distance and then downscale it instead of doing anti aliasing or something.

    • @djp1234
      @djp1234 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      @@DeusExtra ah yes, that’s another good idea. Render far away objects at half the frame rate or use alternate eye rendering like the Luke Ross VR mod. But in VR, far away objects need to remain at high resolution because low res is very visible in VR. That’s actually the biggest immersion breaker in VR, when you can’t see far away objects, like in real life.

    • @voxelfusion9894
      @voxelfusion9894 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      @@djp1234 meh, not seeing far away objects is perfectly immersive for anyone nearsighted. Lol

    • @djp1234
      @djp1234 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@voxelfusion9894 how does nearsightedness translate into VR vision? The actual display panels are close to your eyes. And do corrective VR lenses help with that?

  • @keropaci
    @keropaci 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Subscribed. One of the best and more clear content about graphics programming that I ever seen in youtube

  • @TTS-TP
    @TTS-TP 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I actually loved prototype! I bought that game right when it released. I really wish they would have done more with the story, and made a good sequel. You guys really did do good work on that game. The free roam playability in the aspect like GTA, has been unmatched in that particular flavor of genre. Now I'm going to have to dust it off and see if I can get it to boot on something

  • @Tera_GX
    @Tera_GX 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    A quick subscribe from me! I look forward to you going into transparency shenanigans. It surprises me that to this day it is not unlikely for a player to run across transparency issues. I remember even in the recent beautiful Armored Core 6 I found a situation where smoke consistently interacted badly with something. And in playing around with my own projects, I've gone overboard with "transparency is beautiful" too many times, and keep having to be mindful of performance impact.

  • @SDRIFTERAbdlmounaim
    @SDRIFTERAbdlmounaim 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    am surprised to hear you worked on Prototype... am a car guy, so the none car games i played could be counted on one hand, Prototype was one of them that i loved so much, it was like a modded gta to the younger me, just a weird amazing experience really

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Prototype was a fun, unique title, miss working on that team.

  • @D3NM0NT3UR
    @D3NM0NT3UR 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us, love it when you bring out new videos!

  • @sjoervanderploeg4340
    @sjoervanderploeg4340 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Loved the video, I did quite a bit of reprojection shenanigans about ten years ago with the DK1 and DK2 to improve perceived frame times for stuff outside of our foveal vision!

  • @FlareGunDebate
    @FlareGunDebate 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Man, you're the best. Rendering is an entire discipline unto itself and it's always on the horizon of my attention/knowledge. I finally found the time to study flow fields and I'm moving onto nav meshes soon. One of your first videos was on A*, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about group pathfinding.

  • @michatopa3509
    @michatopa3509 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Immediately subscribed. That's a really good content and you have a nice voice even for a long videos.

  • @Arclibs
    @Arclibs 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    This was really awesome! I used to develop for the nintendo DS, so learning to develop with very strict constraints was really part of the job.
    This format with in-engine examples really set the video apart, excellent job man!

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Thanks! I worked with a guy who was fresh off of DS years ago, very smart guy. That platform sounded like a pain to develop for.

  • @chillyvanilly6352
    @chillyvanilly6352 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    god...just the sheer amount of knowledge and sublime ability to explain usually not quite so straight-forward concepts (when read black-on-white from a uni slide or a blog post written in a VERY dry fashion) *THAT FREAKIN WELL* just amazes me to the point that you Sir have officially becom my role-model (no simping intended). And I mean...duh, no wonder you were (or are, dunno) a Google sofware engineer, cuz that is the level I aspire to become anyhow one day.
    Thank you A LOT and I hope this world blesses you and your fam for everything!
    Super thankful that you make such amazing vids!
    Cheers!

  • @alexmassy
    @alexmassy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Awesome ! thanks a lot ! The explanationn coupled with the rendering are amazing !

  • @notarobot22
    @notarobot22 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Easy to follow, in depth explanation of some pretty complex concepts, waht more can you wish for... Thank you

  • @paronzoda
    @paronzoda 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    One of the videos on this site that I enjoyed the most. Please make more!

  • @BlockedByYoutube
    @BlockedByYoutube 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Truly informative. This is a great perspective, i usually hear arm chair devs talk about game development. I learned a lot here. Subbed

  • @ccl1195
    @ccl1195 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Fantastic education, especially for a lone developer trying to learn more, who is unsatisfied with simplistic answers. These twenty minutes were more valuable to me than many hours of the Unity "tutorials" I have watched. Thanks for being so helpful.

  • @R4venshore
    @R4venshore 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Man, I've done Game dev for over a decade and this still sounds amazing :) Love your channel!

  • @CodeMonkeyUnity
    @CodeMonkeyUnity 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Really excellent video! I don't know much about graphics/rendering so I found this fascinating!

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It's the cool but also exhausting thing about graphics, you basically have to retrain constantly hah!

  • @yaafl817
    @yaafl817 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Hey Simon, amazing video, I really love how you go in depth into the nitty gritty of optimization and the history of it. One such argument I'd love to hear about is collision engines, with broad, middle and narrow phases, aabb collisions, spacial partitioning, the challenges of long range ray and shape casting and so on, I feel like there are so many different interesting things to talk about in collision engines

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
      I'd love to dive into more optimization topics, but I think I'll leave collision engines out of it. I strongly dislike when people pass themselves off as experts in things that they're not, and I hold myself to that same standard. I haven't done anything beyond superficial physics work, so I don't feel especially qualified to talk about the subject.
      I'd encourage you to find resources or experts that specialize in that area. Would love to send you in a direction, but I can't think of any offhand unfortunately.

  • @Teflora
    @Teflora 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    I can imagine using the terrain or buildings in a city as occlusion objects has big benefits real quick.

  • @charlesgrassi1842
    @charlesgrassi1842 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    This kind of quality of content is amazing as a graphics programmer to have access to. I'm amazed by your channel

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks! What do you work on?

  • @chrisbtoo
    @chrisbtoo 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    As someone who never made it that far past the Painter's Algorithm section in any graphics book, this was great 🙂

  • @kylekeenan3485
    @kylekeenan3485 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Loved this, as an enterprise software engineer with no game development experience, I found this highly interesting and really easy to understand. You did an amazing job, thanks and you have another subscriber. 😁

  • @miklov
    @miklov 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very nice presentation. I learnt a lot and got some inspiration. Thank you!

  • @a.aspden
    @a.aspden 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is awesome. I have always been left scratching my head after reading papers and watching whatever few videos even exist about the more advanced culling methods here. Is there any chance you have a github with source or will you make a course covering each topic in detail with in depth code examples? I think people would buy it. Thanks for the video!

  • @tetrazene3876
    @tetrazene3876 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Thanks for your work on Prototype! Has a special place in my heart

  • @ahuahu4785
    @ahuahu4785 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    WAIT YOU WORKED ON PROTOTYPE
    THAT SO COOL I STILL LOVE THAT GAME

  • @qwerty-dm8gr
    @qwerty-dm8gr 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    [Prototype] is one of my favorite games of all time. It was the first game I ever got a platinum trophy on. Thanks for working on it.

  • @AlessaBaker
    @AlessaBaker 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

    Just a small tip for visualization, I have trouble seeing a difference between Red and Green, which was worse with the Green and Yellow examples - and for those with Colorblindness, contrast is always the eye's first priority over color. Better to use colors that are complimentary, or better yet, just white and black for visualization.
    (And yes, it's hard for us in Graphics Programming) :p
    Really love your video! super simple and a great start to understanding graphics and optimization. Subscribed :3

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

      I think someone else brought that up, and it never occurred to me. But I will 100% strive to be better in the future.

    • @catarmour4572
      @catarmour4572 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Here to second this, yellow is a devious colour that is seldom seen

    • @_Jess
      @_Jess 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@simondev758 thanks for taking it seriously, I appreciate how you handle feedback on your videos
      You can look for ready-made "accessible color palettes" to drop in, or keep it simple with contrast and patterns. It really does help, I kept pausing this video just to tell the effects apart, and the problem affects everybody when you have different calibration for every monitor.

    • @techpriest6962
      @techpriest6962 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Next they'll be hiring deaf people as lifeguards. What's the world coming to. 😂

  • @clonkex
    @clonkex 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    That last "state-of-the-art" demonstration is so cool! I honestly never even realised it was common to do visibility culling outside of precomputed visibility structures. But not only is it done, there's some very interesting algorithms to lean on. I especially love algorithms that don't rely on temporal reprojection, so that last one (use objects visible in the last frame as occluders) is quite fascinating to me.

  • @MetalStorm66
    @MetalStorm66 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Mr.doob is one of your patrons! Actually I’m not surprised. GG

    • @bigmistqke
      @bigmistqke 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Also just noticed. Too cool

  • @catoleg
    @catoleg 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I am not graphic engineer, but the content you make is extremely interesting to watch. Thank you for your work sir

  • @ScrakSFMs
    @ScrakSFMs 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    What learned me a lot of optimization was actually the source engine when it came to mapping in Hammer. Now using your video to learn more about other types of optimizations that might be possible for Source or at least in Hammer. Thanks for sharing this type of content and information to anyone that wants it!
    I am also going to code my own game that is heavily inspired by a game that is poorly optimized. So watching these will hopefully ensure I will not make the same mistakes those developers did.

  • @Someniatko
    @Someniatko 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    Thank you for a great explanation! If you are suddenly out of ideas how to proceed, I am personally very interested in how this process works with shadows, lights, reflections etc from the offscreen objects. By playing Hogwarts Legacy, which is an UE4-based game, I've noticed that some elements, like reflections in lakes, are often suddenly popping up when I slightly move the camera, which causes an unpleasant experience.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      Yeah, one of the options in the last poll on Patreon was exactly that, the various reflection techniques used over the years, and the tradeoffs between them. I haven't played Hogwarts Legacy, but it sounds like SSR, or screenspace reflections, which is what I showed part way through this video (the short of the cheap reflections on water when I talked about the depth buffer). It's a limitation of the approach, but it's super cheap.

  • @linolafettatnet
    @linolafettatnet 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    great summary, thank you for doing work to condense all these techniques into easy to grasp visuals.

  • @phoneix24886
    @phoneix24886 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nice video. I had once read a paper on culling strategies. Its just amazing how smart people are in the gaming industry. Some of the most amazing algorithms came from the gaming industry.

  • @GozaProductions
    @GozaProductions 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    So if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to see it...

  • @davidhuculak1099
    @davidhuculak1099 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great video as always! Thanks for the incredible overview. I've been wondering about occlusion culling for a long time as I was thinking of implementing it in my toy engine and now I finally feel confident about how to do it properly. Sadly it seems like a lot of work implement the two pass system so I probably will never do it, lol.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's actually not, you can bang out an implementation in a few hours

  • @emomaxd2462
    @emomaxd2462 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I am enlightened wow!
    I am really into game dev and graphics and the topics you ve pointed in the video are amazing i ve learned so many things

  • @emterroso
    @emterroso 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I never worked with game development, but I love this channel. I love to hear about clever solutions to optimization problems. This video was particularly interesting.

  • @ramasamystudios4101
    @ramasamystudios4101 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have always been fascinated as to how games were rendered on screen. Great video.

  • @tietosanakirja
    @tietosanakirja 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Cool stuff. I've sometimes wondered how games do this and avoid unnecessary work. Thanks for sharing

  • @Dasein_
    @Dasein_ 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks man for this informative video. You are doing great job

  • @samhblackmore
    @samhblackmore 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    It's like if Bob's Burgers explained Computer Science

  • @LoffysDomain
    @LoffysDomain 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I appreciate that you go straight to the topic

  • @onlytwogenders420
    @onlytwogenders420 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    That is really cool you worked on Prototype. I really enjoyed that game.

  • @laszloposzmik5829
    @laszloposzmik5829 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    For me, the most interesting thing is, how the "MOV AX,CS" and similar lines became an open world game with theoretically unlimited gaming time.
    40-50 years ago one or two people worked on a project (code, music, gfx was the same person sometimes) and then, 20-25 years ago the games became so complex that some pc games had longer credits list than a Hollywood movie.

  • @morgan3392
    @morgan3392 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I didn't know you worked on Prototype. I love that game!

  • @why.brotheredits
    @why.brotheredits 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    You worked on prototype ?
    Bro it was my favorite game it was unique and amazing graphics and also amazing gameplay feeling. Wow.

  • @electricblade5
    @electricblade5 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Woah! 😮 Crazy you worked on Prototype. I loved that game, and I have always remembered it from time to time. Maybe you could make a video about your work on the game.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Would you be interested in that? Brief summary: I did some of the early r&d for the graphics, did a big presentation at GDC, and during production mostly did backend and optimization work.

    • @diegoteixeira2003
      @diegoteixeira2003 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ⁠@@simondev758Definitely should do a video about it. It would be a great video to watch.

  • @ceilingfun2182
    @ceilingfun2182 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I just discovered a new excellent channel, then looked at your channel, and I found out I had already watched a few of your videos.

  • @ciggyroach
    @ciggyroach 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Off topic but those trees in your demo is beautiful! I really like the style of them!

  • @KaiZeEKing
    @KaiZeEKing 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    really appreciated this, and good visualizations to go with the explanation. thank you!

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad you enjoyed it!

  • @aloluk
    @aloluk 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I was waiting so long for you to bring up temporal cohesion.

  • @florianschmoldt8659
    @florianschmoldt8659 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Great video. I'm a 3dArtist, not a programmer of any sort and there might have been a simple explanation for it that I've missed but how does culling account for things like long shadows or global illumination, that leaks from off-screen into the visible scene? ...Maybe worth a part2? :)

  • @yah3136
    @yah3136 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Excellent video, so interesting and clearly explained. Nice work. And you made me reinstall Prototype (at least trying to ... ).

  • @mattanimation
    @mattanimation 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is information rich / dense yet so simple. thanks!

  • @chadfranklin47
    @chadfranklin47 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Prototype was one of my favorite games back in the day. Very cool to hear about it here.

  • @TommyLikeTom
    @TommyLikeTom 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    amazing video. Your expertise are super evident

  • @IIStaffyII
    @IIStaffyII หลายเดือนก่อน

    Never learned about HBZ, i just knew i had a depth buffer i could access.
    Great video! Well done at explaining how it works!
    Don't know how i will use this information atm, but I'm sure it will help me one day down the line.
    Also now I have lot's of questions in my head how this might be shared with both eyes for VR.

  • @seancsnm
    @seancsnm 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Back in the early-mid 2000s I remember learning a bit about bsp (binary space partition) maps for ID tech-based game engines. Maps were compiled ahead of time to determine what parts of the map would be rendered depending on where the player was. It's neat to see that most of that process is done in near real time now.

  • @spinnie0
    @spinnie0 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Super interesting stuff, but I gotta say as we got to the more complex stuff, it started to fly over my head a little bit. You had great visual illustrations for the simpler stuff, but not for the more complex stuff. Probably would be more difficult to make, but would certainly help! One example of where I got lost was the hierarchy tree stuff.

  • @VariantAEC
    @VariantAEC 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Gran Turismo has used this technique for at least 2 decades. WipEout 2048 also used this technique on PS Vita, but if you do some funky things with the photomode camera, you can see loads of massive black boxes through large chunks of level geometry labeled in bold red font "Blocker."

  • @TheByQQ
    @TheByQQ 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    You worked on Prototype? That's one of my favorite games!
    The video is very informative, and relatively easy to understand even to someone who knows nothing about game development, though there's a minor issue with captions. At a few points the captions are mismatched, like at 12:10, at it takes a few seconds for them to catch up.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Ah ok I'll double check the captions.

  • @overtonesnteatime198
    @overtonesnteatime198 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Interesting and educational. Thanks Simon!

  • @draicor
    @draicor 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    i love your content so much simon, all of it its amazing

  • @DblOSmith
    @DblOSmith 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't know why I watched this whole thing and took notes. I don't work at all in this field, but it's so interesting. THanks!

  • @lemonjumpsofficial
    @lemonjumpsofficial 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I was thinking long about how to deal with not just culling, but ray tracing, collisions and gravity simulation too, for a space game.
    and yeah, cache optimization is important, but so are tree structures, esp for stuff where everything interacts with everything.
    I want to do a hybrid approach, where the tree nodes serve as containers (indexes) for arrays of properties.
    I'm super excited for it!!!!
    but for now i gotta work on simpler games so i can make a name for my self, and make it as a game developer \o/

  • @Sada-fb2ys
    @Sada-fb2ys 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You worked on prototype??? Bro that is like my favourite game! Keep it up

  • @iamdak
    @iamdak 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great video, I wish it was made a few years ago :-) In my occlusion culling journey, I originally took the HiZ approach on the GPU which worked out great at first. It became a problem though when I wanted to do more with the visible entities. I tried in several ways to send data back to the CPU but there's just too much latency and not enough types of indirect commands to keep it on the GPU, so I went the CPU route instead. Intel has a great paper for their method of CPU-side HiZ implementation, "Masked Software Occlusion Culling". They also provide an open source implementation which has performed well for my application.

    • @simondev758
      @simondev758  5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah I wanted to call out to Intel's library at some point, but didn't have a good reason to.

  • @cmikhail7289
    @cmikhail7289 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This was very informative. I'm not really involved in any game dev. Thank you!

  • @bonafide9085
    @bonafide9085 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thanks for sharing this! Very interesting topic!

  • @AComfyKnight
    @AComfyKnight 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I dont know much about this stuff, but this was really understandable, great explanation

  • @Hammerdinger-yf7yd
    @Hammerdinger-yf7yd 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What an elegant way to solve the depth buffer dependency issue. Render the simpler version of the view to extract depth data and then render the high resolution view.