MSSP - Shane Gillis On Vietnam, France, Patton, & Domino Effect..
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2023
- #shanegillis #mssp #mattandshanesecretpodcast #vietnam #france #patton
Support the boys: / mssecretpod
Shane Gillis, Matt McCusker & Colin Quinn break down a little history discussing the Vietnam war.
From Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast ep. 398 - ตลก
Referring to Imperial Japan in the 1940s as "They got a little wild" is so unhinged lol
wheres the lie tho
@@glovester Haha
I took a history course about the Vietnam War in college, got an A, and learned more about the war watching this video than I did the entire semester
cause school is just done so wrong its always dose history so dirty as a history lover i was always so disappointed how its taught and it has always made me wanna become a history teacher to fix this problem i have learned 99% of what i know in history outside of school its so crazy schools need major revamping in everyway possible
@@Broken_dish
Your passion can help the torch of change in the future
Maybe you should've done a little more school to learn how to spell and punctuate lmao.@@Broken_dish
@@fr0zdify not to mention you have 0 reason to feel proud of yourself for using yt comments like a school essay especially since in a few years some ai program will be doing all the writing for you monkey fingers i wonder how you will cope oh know i cant be a grammar nazi anymore my life is ruined nooooooo
@@fr0zdify I wouldn't take advice from anyone who ends a sentence with lmao. Yes, that includes myself.
Ho Chi Minh actually quoted major portions of the US Declaration of independence for the Vietnamese Declaratiom of Independence as a direct inspiration. He wrote letters to Woodrow Wilson for support and was also ignored. In the end Vietnam sided with the USA after normalizing relations in the 1990s because China is our eternal enemy.
Also bonus fact: Obama and Trump are wildly popular in Vietnam. I've seen at least 5 Obama cafés and Vietnamese old heads just nod and agree when Trump talked about China.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
When I visited Vietnam every Vietnamese person I met who I had a convo with regarding the war said they had no ill will towards Americans and actually quite liked Americans. They just thought of the US as another country they had to fight for their independence.
They hate the Chinese though.
02l
@@zacharyotto2135I think that's a cultural attitude you develop from having to fight constantly.
What do you mean by, Vietnam sided with the USA?
We need Shane and Louis to do a regular history pod
Or a Drunk History episode
yeah needed that other guy to be like no america definitely werent the good guys lmfao. a book reader vs a ken burns listener. blaming france isa nuts we knew what they were doing we had interests in the region
My mom was born in '51 & she said in our hometown in Alabama there was a funeral literally every other weekend of someone she or my aunts/uncles knew.
They were teens/early 20s seeing their friends being buried every other weekend.
Thats sucks in a very special way.
especially back then but even still kinda today the south has always been a huge part of active duty military
Still the same today just for other reasons lol
Glencoe?
@@fettdestro4844 Gadsden
Its weird to see a podcast in 2024 that looks like it was filmed in 2001
I was thinking the same thing, have they never heard of mic stands lmao.
@@MrAndo856 I think they like keeping it a fun low budget thing more than a thing for money. The more often you do it and the more stuff you build in your studio the more it kills the good times
After Stav left CTown I couldn't find any podcast that was funny until I found MSSP. Frankly I don't care how low budget it is as long as they keep making episodes.
Lighting is important. Poor lighting=poor video clarity
It's kinda nice tho
The M16 itself wasn’t the issue. The switch to cheap, dirty ammo and initial lack of cleaning kits provided to GI’s was.
It was also just a poorly designed gun, and if you used certain types of ammo, even if it was good ammo, it would decrease the reliability of the weapon
@@ZaptheZombiepoorly designed… nah
@@em3rican137 if you go back and listen to literally any of the dudes who used those things when they first started rolling out, they hated them, and if you listen to why they hated them and look into why the gun behaved that way, you’ll go “why did they do it like that”. It was a gun that was prone to rust, jamming, and frankly breaking because it was a gun made for cheap out of plastic that needed to get cleaned constantly IN THE JUNGLE. They had to overhaul the design for anyone to actually want to use the thing
They also told them it was some space-age future gun that they basically didn’t even have to clean
@@ZaptheZombieit's essentially the same weapon they use today. The problem was they didn't issue cleaning kits or train the men on how to operate them. Training consisted of taking the men to the edge of camp and have them shoot a magazine into the jungle. If you maintain any weapon properly and give it a lot of attention it will work in any climate. Like I said, the M-4 the military still uses is essentially the same rifle and it is deployed around the world.
I saw the original episode. This is a nice job on the editing of just the Vietnam conversation.
do you know what the full episode number is or how i can find it and is it worth watching the full video or is this the best part is the rest also on history or other stuff?
@@Broken_dish I recently went through their early episodes. Nice background noise while working. It's in one of the first 20 episodes. Not sure which one. They have a playlist on their YT channel.
@@michaeljamesmccabe ok thanks alot apricate it
@michaeljamesmccabe not even close to the first 20. It's episode 398 with Colin Quinn
@@Broken_dish Episode 398 with Colin Quinn
I was in Des Moines for work recently and saw a ton of Vietnamese restaurants. It seemed kind of random for a mid-sized Midwestern city, but I was told the governor at the time of the Vietnam War was staunchly anti-Communist and he welcomed in a ton of South Vietnamese once we pulled out. Kind of interesting (and I got the best bowl of pho I've ever had out of it)
Same thing in Texas. Lots of South Vietnamese Refugees. Just like my pap
In Georgia we have tons of refugees from the “secret war” in china.
My grandfather was in World War II in the Battle of the Bulge he always told me that Patton was very brave with other people's lives, he didn't like that mother f***** either
I mean, not like he knew him
Met this super old guy at the American Legion when I was a kid that was in one of Pattons units. He told me “they called him blood and guts, but it was always our blood and his guts” seems to be a common theme with his soldiers not liking him.
@@Ajm52284 he was under his command bro. Patton was notoriously a massive asshole.
So believable.
ADM Morrer's book 'Aircraft Carriers at War' is a *wild* history of naval aviation over Vietnam. USAF typically pilots would only do 1 tour in 'Nam, in the USN it was a 'fly till you die' thing, and the strike aviators by 1972 were some of the most unhinged dudes you can imagine, having survived almost a decade of daily flights over the world's deadliest AAA network.
Please never edit a second of silence out. You guys just chillen is perfect man🔥
full episodes on their real channel ! :)
Listening to a few comedians demonstrate more knowledge and nuance on history and war than any mainstream news media or common liberal arts university graduate can ever hope to grasp, is both delightful and terrifying at the same time.
Well shane has a degree in history
Eff off with the “liberal arts” bullshite. How many Christian Universities are out there truth telling? Enough with the f¥cking politics…Jesus
That's a pretty stupid statement, considering Shane has a liberal arts degree.
I can’t get enough of Matt and Shane’s history themed ‘casts. This cast was hotter than napalm
Guys this is fantastic. Thank you Colin for being there!
The reason why people cared about Domino Theory in the 1950's and 60's, the reason Shane SHOULD care about Domino theory, is because between like 1958-1962, like 50 million Chinese people starved in the Great Leap Forward. The spread of communism was literally life and death in the 50's and 60's. Look at Cambodia, look at the Khmer Rouge, that is what people were afraid of.
Nope the red scare was complete propaganda and fear mongering. Crazy how it is so deep rooted its even felt now. Was communism so scary that the US had to back regimes in the Philippines Brazil Vietnam that killed millions? Nope it'd about protecting US interests globally the domino theory was just a nice excuse.
Yea buts it’s there problem
However, the Viet Kong were the primary military that combatted the Khmer Rouge.
Southeast Asia is abundant with natural resources
@@kulio1214 Is Greece? What about Afghanistan? Do you think America support Osama Bin Laden in the 80's because we wanted access to Afghanistan's poppy fields?
That's not how America fights it's wars. We weren't in Iraq for oil, that makes no sense. It's a meme that only teenagers think is true.
I couldn't sleep last night and randomly fell into Shane clips talking about wars and holy shit I love it
All I heard was more reasons to blame the French and I love it haha 😂
Still waiting for a special history episode with the great dan carlin
Waiting patiently
I actually love how Shane is so invested in history it’s actually dope asf 😂
Colin is wrong on the M14-M16 thing, M14 was less reliable, M16 in early introduction was sabotaged by the Ordnance Board who wanted to keep the M14, but still troops generally liker the M16.
I like the comments about Ego in the military leadership. I remember hearing a quote from a top general in Korea who ordered his men to chase the retreating Chinese. It was something like " we aren't going to let these (insert racial slur) laundry men escape". It was a blatant faint to draw the American forces into a trap.... But this ego on this general didn't see it nor did he listen to his commanders and lead his men into chosin reservoir.
I love this - its like toddlers explaining gravity to eachother
Said by the known intellectual anders mogensen
Not really but that is a humorously absurd exaggeration
@@nak3dxsnake you calling me a dumbass, a liar, or funny and insightful?
Im feeling very conflicted about this answer
@@andersmogensen2819youre an idiot
@andersmogensen2819 you’re gay
I had no idea Shane was so knowledgeable on history, I love listening to him tell about it because you get comedy mixed in with it
New favourite history pod.
There were definitely other wars with significant opposition before Vietnam, though.
You know the phrase “shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded movie theater”? It was first used to justify the criminalization of free speech during WWI, because so many people were opposed to the war and conscription.
Tons of people opposed the Spanish-American War - famous “anti-imperialists” included Mark Twain.
Tons of opposition to the Mexican-American War. Lots of people thought it was a cynical ploy to get more land for slavery. The Republican Party platform condemned it as essentially an evil thing into the 1880s. Grant said, to paraphrase, that it was the most unjust war a stronger country had ever imposed on a weaker (obviously, a bit of hyperbole). In his memoirs, Grant basically said that the Civil War was us getting our “just deserts” for the Mexican American War - that it was karma:
“The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times.”
Grant would know, too - he fought in the Mexican War as a young officer.
On another note, George Friedman is a nutcase who has no idea what he’s talking about ~90% of the time.
That’s a strangely defeatist, self-hating mentality. Grant was certainly a weird guy. To think a tragedy like that is “just desserts” is really a very soy reddit opinion.
Great podcast AND guest. Thanks guys x
That Ken Burns doc was really fantastic! At the end when they are showing the Vietnam memorial u can see my uncle’s name. Thomas L. Corbett!
1:08 that’s the understatement of the CENTURY!
This is more historically informational than school. And funny.
no it isn't, its just fun.
The Viet Cong had hospitals, schools, universities, dormitories and supplies and water in a complex of deep underground connected facilities. They were never going to be defeated.
Vietnam War was over the rubber plantations in Vietnam, Michelin was a french company...its always about big business
Where do they get rubber from now ?
@@voiceofreason2674 Southeast Asia, Asia, Africa, Central America in that order.
The Americans were not in the Vietnam war for a French tire company. War is usually business, not in the case you mentioned
23:40, The Kent State joke was too good. 😂
I love these history podcasts
When I hear Colin talk I can’t help but hear Lenny the Lion from his SNL sketch.
Basillone picked up the browning machine gun on the island of Guadalcanal in 1942, if I remember correctly. Back then they were still using the water cooled barrels, but that thing still gets super hot. The air cooled models were around, but i dont think the marines had them for the troops on that island. Not that you'd want to hold the air cooled version by the barrel either.
Sad thing is he died in the first couple of hours on Iwo Jima. Absolute legend.
This is probably already in the comments. But MacArthur did a very dangerous amphibious landing, which was a stroke of strategic genius. And he led NATO forces to close to the border of China and that’s when things turned bad because the Chinese unleashed a good 10 million soldiers.
That was Korea, not Vietnam
he was still a huge wanker who loved to smoke cigars in Japanese kimono and katana and act like mayor of Tokyo huge ego his head was bigger than mr makay
Wait till you read about General Westmorland or the Phoenix program gotta respect Carlos Hathcock though
John Basilone actually had a ship in the fleet named after him and an annual parade in Raritan New Jersey in his honor. Mad respect to all our fallen veterans ! Anywho just wanted to put that out there. Absolutely no disrespect to the boys.
My grandfather was in the 3rd army under Patton. He hated the movie “Patton”. He said it was bullshit and that he was nothing like the way they depicted him.
Genuinely curious, what’s was he like vs the movie?
Couldn't help but laugh when Colin mentions how big a read "A bright shining lie" is. I got the paper back and it's a thicc book. John Paul Vann said way back in 62' that America was losing the war and he was right.
I’m now all of a sudden interested in history only when Shane has the mic
“I’m gonna do that gun thing again” *dies*
Lmao
The M-16 jammed because the military used old powder for the 5.56x45mm cartridges to save $ because they already had produced the powder. The old powder wasn't designed for the M-16 and burnt dirty. Causing many malfunctions.
Troops died with cleaning rods in the barrels.
What Betamax cam did u guys use to film this?
My great uncle was a tunnel rat in Vietnam. I never got to meet him because he moved to Thailand in the 90s before I was born. All I know about him was that he always carried a gun and would “security check” people that got too close to family in public.
“Moving to Thailand in the 90s” is still the sketchiest part of that whole story.
@@kennybeans6115 I like to think he felt more at home in SE Asia than in the states but it does make me wonder what insane shit he got into
@@DeltaDanner
Yeah, it must’ve been a trip the stuff those vets saw and experienced out there.
@@DeltaDannera lot of vets did it. Plenty went out there and just stayed for decades after experiencing the RandR. And yeah, we all know what they got into. But I too think they felt more at home there. Poor kid from some rundown town with zero opportunities or rich man in a country full of them? Also you don’t have a ton of your own country men looking down on you for the war. I can totally see why they’d do it.
Don’t think they would make inglorious basterds about Vietnam or Iraq…
32:04 honestly a rest stop is pretty damn good. I'd say that beats a bridge but maybe not a highway in terms of memorials.
Robert McNamara basically said “why would I study anything the French did? They lost.”
This video is a goddamn treasure
M16 jammed because the airforce liked it but they did not want to lose the contracts for the M14 so they refused to issue the m16 with adequate cleaning supplies.
I though it was because they tested it using stick powder, then switched to ball powder when they started issuing it. Granted, I'm sure issuing them without cleaning kits wasn't a brilliant idea either.
The M16 wasn’t the thing jamming, it was the magazines they were given. They weren’t built to spec and would fail to feed fairly consistently
I thought it was because the Army changed to ball gunpowder in the ammo from the stick gunpowder the M16 was originally designed around. Ball gunpowder burns a lot dirtier it leaves a lot more carbon in the chamber than stick. It also didn’t help the military got cheap and didn’t want to pay to have the bolt carrier and inner chamber chrome lined like the M16 was originally designed. All those issues combined caused the rifle to jam a lot, it didn’t help they weren’t issued with cleaning kits.
This conversation is happening at 72 bpm...
This was dope
Saw a TH-cam video with Fletcher Prouty, he said that US weapons, hardware etc never left Asia after ww2. He said it went to Vietnam in late 40s.
Just saw an Andy Stumpf podcast and his guest said the same thing. The first American advisors noted the amount of Thompsons the Viet Cong had.
Colin rules
Lol no
Not that good.
@@TheImmoralNosferatuZodd SILENCE
@@blackmarketmedia3328 You aren’t
Maybe 30 years ago
19:14 this is a wild take lol made me think though
great talk, time flew listening to this
The initial rounds of m16s and the ammo in vietnam were purposefully sabotaged by the army bc the general who wanted the m14 to be thr service rifle were mad about the m16 switch
5:50 - we did the same thing to our 173rd boys in the Battle of Wanat
My grandfather fought in WW2 under Pattons command and then when Korea started he volunteered for that too.
The Ken Burns documentary of Vietnam is very good. It goes over everything before during and after the war. It includes both sides as well. It seems biased at first but at the end it shows how everyone was duped during Vietnam. It’s long as hell but worth it if you love history.
Thankful my grand pa made through Vietnam. Miss you paw paw
The fact that Shane is a history buff make’s my 🎉 hard. he’s funny and historically accurate!? Thank god SNL fired him! He’s gonna be on Rushmore
Where did these go?!
Think most people didn’t know how much Ho Chi Min loved America and had we helped them then would Vietnam ever had happened. They could have been a democratic country. It’s a wild concept had we had helped them instead of France.
the m16s were compromised because they used the wrong kind of powder in the cartridge. it would have been a better weapon than the m14 if it had the proper ammo.
Some guys still preferred the M16 and especially the XM177 despite the issue because they were lightweight and had soft recoil. There's a theory Ian McCollum mentions in one of his videos that the problems were blown out of proportion by some of the top brass as an "I told you so" because of the politics of changing to a smaller standard round were very nasty. No matter what actually happened, every theory just further confirms the military industrial complex is evil.
Eugene Stoner don't make no shit!
Theu eventually fixed it too didnt they?
I went through two M4s in Iraq, they both were unreliable even with cleaning twice daily. I was in continuous contact with the enemy and when you misfire/jam you can hear your stomach gurgle over the crack and zing of gunfire. Thank God for SSPORTS.
@@hostilebogeyinboundyo, do you write for a living? That was pretty good man
When I hear Colin’s voice I immediately remember Patrice O’Neal. RIP 🫡
Trivia re Ho Chi Minh, 1912-1913(?) he worked at the Parker House/Hotel in Boston.
More informed and we'll thought out than a lot of media pundits.
Shane is the best.
I’m very surprised Shane didn’t know who Audey Murphy was
The reason why the french build a landing strip/base in a valley, was because it was surrounder by hills with jungle forests covering them.
They (rightfully) thought that you can't get artillery up there by truck. What they forgot about is, that you can still get artillery up there by foot (or animals). So the vietnam push artillery up the surrounding hill. Without thaz fire support, the french might have very well won that battle.
I believe they disassembled much of the artillery to transport then reassembled it arrived.
The North Vietnamese even fought Cambodia after the US left.
It was mostly French Foreign legion in that valley and most of them were EX Wermacht and SS troops.
The U.S. military switched to a gunpowder for the M16 that they were told specifically not to use, and that was the cause of most malfunctions.
I wish Stanley Kubrick could have been involved in this conversation.
I don't like the slippery slope argument myself, it's a slippery slope
Yeah, and it’s also a weird coincidence how Lou Gehrig just so happened to die of Lou Gehrig disease.
the valley thing seems to be a theme. korengal valley Afghanistan was the same thing. but no air strip
Talk about Patton and MacArthur from the Bonus War. Veterans have been mis treated by this country since before this was a country.
You guys should get Mike glover of field craft survival or Evan hafer of black rifle coffee. An cover Afghanistan or iraq
He got the Korean war wrong. The landing of Incheon was not a mistake, but one of the most important moments of the war and an absolute success. McArthur didn't screw up the war
I was thinking that little guy looked like Collin Quin
A lot of life waisted bc of our government not minding its own business
Just put a belt on it
Ya just random and for no reason. Sure lol
Learn grammar and spelling lol Jesus Christ that was rough
And incredibly lucrative for the certain few
Oy vey
I know what Shane feels about Vietnam: It's called Shame
Any source on the CIA keeping letters from Turman?
The invasion of Inchon actually went surprisingly well during the Korean war, the issue was MacArthur pushed all the way to the Chinese border and ignored reports of Chinese troops causing about a quarter million Chinese troops to surround the UN forces.
To understand Vietnam from an American perspective, you start with the plains wars, then look at the Philippines and finally Vietnam, and you see how the other side of American warfare is.
Just lost my father to Agent Orange. What an effed up mess that time in history was.
Sigh ... I love getting my history lessons second hand through comedians that watched a documentary 👏 😅
Colin has never, not once, been able to string together a fucking cohesive sentence. It's impressive.
The landing/invasion was MacArthur's second plan. His first plan required 50 atomic weapons.... Truman didnt like that one
I was hoping Muhammad Ali would come up, he refusing to join the army and his protest against the war helped the people see Vietnam in a different light.
Today I watched two Vietnam vets see one another's hats and it was ON. Total strangers like best friends. I loved living in HO Chi Minh City. #buivien #wastedvietnameseonmotorbikesbeforenoon
lol I just turned off Shane on Theo Von’s podcast to watch something else and thought to myself “alright I’m done listening to Shane Gillis and Theo Von enable my opinions.” then saw this and was like “fuck yeah i wanna listen to Shane Gillis talk about Vietnam.”
7:57 didnt Vietnam get attacked by someone soon after The Vietnam war?
Matt, you're a star. Why don't you have a wikipedia page ? you 🚬
You guys should do one with dan carlin i think hes the best youtube historian
2:52 spoken like a true downs dawg
Don’t spit on my man MacArthur like that. His split of the Korean Peninsula during the north’s invasion of the south split their army in two and utterly crippled them. He was a genius, a megalomaniac yeah, but a military genius
Marines didn't get destroyed in Khe San they successfully held off for a very ling time until they were evacuated.