Hello Paul,,, Great video!! The tophat looks great. Very nice build. So happy YT suggested this video. I put 50 watts on 8.97 KHz many years ago and know exactly all the work it takes to do a project like this .. Thank you for putting this up.
Thanks Paul. I had a lot of fun on 2200m and miss it every day. I lost the antenna in a storm December 2020, temporarily repaired it but took it down for good in the spring. Losing the 2200m antenna was no big deal, it was easily repaired. But when it broke and fell, there was a whiplash effect that damaged many of my other antennas and one of the towers. That I can't afford.
Most of the activity on this band is one-way using quasi-beacon modes like WSPR and the new FST4W and others. Every once in a while you get to make a two way QSO. I have more on it, mostly about equipment I built on my web site. Unfortunately I no longer have this antenna up so I am off the band now. In December 2020 this antenna broke in a bad storm, causing the towers to shake and move which caused extensive damage to all my other antennas. I have repaired the damage but did not put this one back up because I can't afford to have that happen again. I miss 2200 meters a lot!
Brings back memories of work on aviation NDBs when I was a radio tech in Australia. Ours were around 200 to 350khz which is quite abit higher than what you are using.
At about one minute into the video when I was talking about the top hat, I was actually showing the end of a nearby 80 meter antenna. I can't see the display on the camera in bright light so I'm doing this blind! I got it right a bit later at about two minutes in, and again at the end of the video.
This is why I was impressed when I heard that German government time signal station DCF77 on 77.5 khz has a T antenna with about 70-75% efficiency... on 77.5 khz
Interesting. I will try to see if I can find any information about the DCF77 antenna. If we could build a nearly full quarter wave vertical it could be that efficient or better, but it's not practical in ham radio to build such a tall structure!
@@cwdxer1981 There's a photo of the DCF77 antenna on wikipedia. There are multiple high towers in a circle to the main radiator in the middle and I'm sure there is a very extensive rf earth network below the ground. It would certainly be beyond our means and must have been an expensive endeavour for the West German government in 1959. It is also to be used as emergency communications in times of (nuclear?) war, I believe.
would it be possible to DIY a transmitter with a FET as the PA and a tank circuit on the output? i keep hearing about this, but i still dont have enough information to build mine.
I'm not sure about a full transmitter but a PA is easy. There are two basic forms, class D and class E. I successfully built and used both on 2200 meters. There are several designs on the web. Information about the two I built and some of my other transmitting and receiving equipment can be found here: www.n1bug.com/lfmf/
In the U.S. if you want to transmit using your amateur radio call sign with amateur radio privileges, you must notify UTC and wait at least 30 days to see if they object. If they don't, you are good to go. If you want to transmit with privileges not allowed under amateur radio rules you can apply for a Part 5 license. There are very few of those now that we have amateur privileges on 2200m.
I worked about half a dozen stations in North America, two on CWE and the rest on digital modes. My best distance QSOs were 2E0ILY, G0MRF and DL7NN on digital modes. I am sure there would have been more but mMy antenna came down in a storm three years ago and I have not been active since.
Thanks. I could put it back up any time. The problem is it caused damage to other antennas, towers and rotators when it fell. All antennas were covered with wet sticky snow at the time. It was a tremendous weight. When the 2200m antenna broke and fell, the sudden reduction in side loads caused both towers to move a bit a top, quite violently. That sudden motion combined with the weight of the snow on everything is what did the damage. I can't risk that happening again. 2220m is a lot of fun!
I should have mentioned that I have very poor soil conductivity. New England soil tends to be poor and mine is pure sand, almost like beach sand. I often joke that my soil is about as conductive as Teflon - an exaggeration of course but it is quite poor, a factor contributing to high ground losses despite my radials and ground rods.
Quite impressive. Since the power limit on 2200M is 1 Watt EIRP, why have you used such large-gauge wire for your loading coils? Or is it actually coax (maybe salvaged) and you're using only the outer conductor?
Excellent question. It is 10 gauge wire. The coil can be a significant source of losses in an antenna like this. The lower the losses in the coil or other parts of the antenna system, the less transmitter power needed to make 1 Watt EIRP. With most such antennas being on the order of a fraction of one per cent efficiency, many of us need a few hundred watts transmitter power to get to that legal limit. Larger wire means lower losses. Since that wire and the form for the large coil were provided to me at no cost, there was no reason not to use it in the interest of maximizing efficiency.
I'm thinking of using similar methods to change my 80 meter skywire into a vertical similar to this, shorting the 450 ohm line and ending up with it as a vertical top hat. Then an added grounding system might make a difference. I'm thinking relays and motorized coils would make it all switchable. The 80 m loop is amazing as is though. But, I'd like lower band, 160 ect.
I know someone using a setup like that on 2200m. His loop is bigger, 160m full wave I think. It works very well. It will give you low angle radiation (good for DX) on 160 if the length of 450 ohm line and amount of top loading don't make it too long. I doubt it will, as that would take quite a long line I think.
Thank you for the excellent video. I had been considering this kind of configuration for doing wspr, but not sure it would be worth all the work. Besides, there's no way I can get an antenna up even 50ft, much less 90 ft. But I definitely enjoyed your video!
Lower antennas will work. I've copied and even had a two way QSO with a station in England whose maximum antenna height is less than half of mine. He does have a good bit of top loading in the form of a full wavelength 160 meter horizontal loop. One solution with smaller antennas is to run more power. Remember we are allowed 1 watt EIRP. For some with larger antennas that may mean running 100 watts or less out of the transmitter while for those with smaller antennas it might mean running 1000 watts to get a watt radiated.
Interesting! Just curious...at 11:05 you mention communication is extremely slow, one word per hour. Why is that? Could you not use normal CW morse code?
I have used normal CW but on 2200 meters it won't get you more than 1000 miles, maybe 2000 rarely. For real DX you need to be able to copy weaker signals than normal CW can do even with the best equipment an operators. Extremely slow modes like the one I mentioned in the video can dig 20 to 25 dB deeper into the noise, greatly extending range. There are also slow digital modes that can get down to those levels (JT9-10, WSPR-15, EbNaut, ...)
The slower you send cw morse code the less bandwidth used, the lower noise levels are on the receiver, the further a weak signal can be picked up. Those are the advantages of sending and receiving extreme slow cw morse code
Of course, but those of us who do this kind of thing either do it because we are fascinated with propagation at LF, or want to learn about antennas and circuits for use there, or just for the challenge. For me, it is all three. At this frequency, talking faster means your signal doesn't go as far. To get long distances we need super slow to dig deeper into the noise.
To each their own. Some people get into ham radio to talk. Others to learn and experiment. I had a lot of fun learning about propagation at LF, learning about different types of circuits and techniques and trying to overcome the tremendous challenges of getting a signal to go anywhere on this frequency at any rate of communication.
*SO **#WHY** YOU WANT TO .. BE "WHERE" THE "GERMAN WETTER STATION" IS !!!* *... IS A LITTLE "STRANGE" ... DO YOU THINK !!!* *THERE ARE "SPACE" A LOT OF "SPACE"... AND YOU GO "137 KHZ" ..???* *(PEOPLE ON SHIPS ..WANT TO **#HEAR** WHAT LOOK LIKE ..AROUND "THEM"..)* *.... **#WHY** ARE "YOU" TRYING TO "MAKE TROUBLE" ????* NNNN
Not my choice! We can only transmit on frequencies allowed by our government issued licenses. Here in the USA, and in most other countries (including Germany) our Amateur Radio license allows us to use 135.7 to 137.8 kHz. It would be very nice for us if we could move lower or higher to get away from the big interference from high power commercial stations in Germany and Hungary, but our license does not allow that!
Hello Paul,,, Great video!! The tophat looks great. Very nice build. So happy YT suggested this video. I put 50 watts on 8.97 KHz many years ago and know exactly all the work it takes to do a project like this .. Thank you for putting this up.
Thanks Paul. I had a lot of fun on 2200m and miss it every day. I lost the antenna in a storm December 2020, temporarily repaired it but took it down for good in the spring. Losing the 2200m antenna was no big deal, it was easily repaired. But when it broke and fell, there was a whiplash effect that damaged many of my other antennas and one of the towers. That I can't afford.
I always wanted to know more about this band
Most of the activity on this band is one-way using quasi-beacon modes like WSPR and the new FST4W and others. Every once in a while you get to make a two way QSO. I have more on it, mostly about equipment I built on my web site. Unfortunately I no longer have this antenna up so I am off the band now. In December 2020 this antenna broke in a bad storm, causing the towers to shake and move which caused extensive damage to all my other antennas. I have repaired the damage but did not put this one back up because I can't afford to have that happen again. I miss 2200 meters a lot!
Brings back memories of work on aviation NDBs when I was a radio tech in Australia. Ours were around 200 to 350khz which is quite abit higher than what you are using.
I didn't get deeply into it, but I did listen for NDBs during my time on LF. The make good propagation indicators.
Hi Paul, agree, a great video, thanks for sharing. I'm about to start experimenting on 630 meters, I'm sussing out antennas, cheers - VK3CSJ
Thanks for watching. Have fun on 630 meters!
At about one minute into the video when I was talking about the top hat, I was actually showing the end of a nearby 80 meter antenna. I can't see the display on the camera in bright light so I'm doing this blind! I got it right a bit later at about two minutes in, and again at the end of the video.
The silk one or the felt one? The 10-inch one is rare now :(
Great to see Your antenna construction and congratulations in making the trip across the Atlantic ocean !
Thanks, I had so much fun and really miss LF operating now.
This is why I was impressed when I heard that German government time signal station DCF77 on 77.5 khz has a T antenna with about 70-75% efficiency... on 77.5 khz
Interesting. I will try to see if I can find any information about the DCF77 antenna. If we could build a nearly full quarter wave vertical it could be that efficient or better, but it's not practical in ham radio to build such a tall structure!
@@cwdxer1981 There's a photo of the DCF77 antenna on wikipedia. There are multiple high towers in a circle to the main radiator in the middle and I'm sure there is a very extensive rf earth network below the ground. It would certainly be beyond our means and must have been an expensive endeavour for the West German government in 1959. It is also to be used as emergency communications in times of (nuclear?) war, I believe.
Fantastic work, Paul! Very nicely built...73 de VA3VVV Toronto
Thank you!
would it be possible to DIY a transmitter with a FET as the PA and a tank circuit on the output?
i keep hearing about this, but i still dont have enough information to build mine.
I'm not sure about a full transmitter but a PA is easy. There are two basic forms, class D and class E. I successfully built and used both on 2200 meters. There are several designs on the web. Information about the two I built and some of my other transmitting and receiving equipment can be found here:
www.n1bug.com/lfmf/
@@n1bug alright i will check it out! Thank you!
Do you have to apply for Part 5 experimental license or notify the UTC before transmitting? (Arm-chair wikipedia reader on the 2200m band.)
In the U.S. if you want to transmit using your amateur radio call sign with amateur radio privileges, you must notify UTC and wait at least 30 days to see if they object. If they don't, you are good to go. If you want to transmit with privileges not allowed under amateur radio rules you can apply for a Part 5 license. There are very few of those now that we have amateur privileges on 2200m.
I copied you in Norway on 136kHz a few weeks ago - 73's de LA3EQ
Have you made many contacts? I've been curious about this band for a while
I worked about half a dozen stations in North America, two on CWE and the rest on digital modes. My best distance QSOs were 2E0ILY, G0MRF and DL7NN on digital modes. I am sure there would have been more but mMy antenna came down in a storm three years ago and I have not been active since.
Wow, that's neat! I'm sorry your antenna came down though, hopefully someday you can put them back up again😊
Thanks. I could put it back up any time. The problem is it caused damage to other antennas, towers and rotators when it fell. All antennas were covered with wet sticky snow at the time. It was a tremendous weight. When the 2200m antenna broke and fell, the sudden reduction in side loads caused both towers to move a bit a top, quite violently. That sudden motion combined with the weight of the snow on everything is what did the damage. I can't risk that happening again. 2220m is a lot of fun!
Radio homebrew is the best brew.
Beer is next tho.
I should have mentioned that I have very poor soil conductivity. New England soil tends to be poor and mine is pure sand, almost like beach sand. I often joke that my soil is about as conductive as Teflon - an exaggeration of course but it is quite poor, a factor contributing to high ground losses despite my radials and ground rods.
Hi Paul, I had sent you an email about your mod to the MFJ 259B, can you tell me the actual size of the wire of the two coils please. Patrick
Hey, I know where there's a 1600' tower!
At one point there was a "spot" on it for amateurs. Hmmm.
Quite impressive. Since the power limit on 2200M is 1 Watt EIRP, why have you used such large-gauge wire for your loading coils? Or is it actually coax (maybe salvaged) and you're using only the outer conductor?
Excellent question. It is 10 gauge wire. The coil can be a significant source of losses in an antenna like this. The lower the losses in the coil or other parts of the antenna system, the less transmitter power needed to make 1 Watt EIRP. With most such antennas being on the order of a fraction of one per cent efficiency, many of us need a few hundred watts transmitter power to get to that legal limit. Larger wire means lower losses. Since that wire and the form for the large coil were provided to me at no cost, there was no reason not to use it in the interest of maximizing efficiency.
I'm thinking of using similar methods to change my 80 meter skywire into a vertical similar to this, shorting the 450 ohm line and ending up with it as a vertical top hat. Then an added grounding system might make a difference. I'm thinking relays and motorized coils would make it all switchable. The 80 m loop is amazing as is though. But, I'd like lower band, 160 ect.
I know someone using a setup like that on 2200m. His loop is bigger, 160m full wave I think. It works very well. It will give you low angle radiation (good for DX) on 160 if the length of 450 ohm line and amount of top loading don't make it too long. I doubt it will, as that would take quite a long line I think.
Thank you for the excellent video. I had been considering this kind of configuration for doing wspr, but not sure it would be worth all the work. Besides, there's no way I can get an antenna up even 50ft, much less 90 ft. But I definitely enjoyed your video!
Lower antennas will work. I've copied and even had a two way QSO with a station in England whose maximum antenna height is less than half of mine. He does have a good bit of top loading in the form of a full wavelength 160 meter horizontal loop. One solution with smaller antennas is to run more power. Remember we are allowed 1 watt EIRP. For some with larger antennas that may mean running 100 watts or less out of the transmitter while for those with smaller antennas it might mean running 1000 watts to get a watt radiated.
That is one big COIL I was wondering about it when it gets wet well you explained it iam licenced to use this band like to know more about it
It is a very challenging band, but that is what makes it fun!
Interesting! Just curious...at 11:05 you mention communication is extremely slow, one word per hour. Why is that? Could you not use normal CW morse code?
I have used normal CW but on 2200 meters it won't get you more than 1000 miles, maybe 2000 rarely. For real DX you need to be able to copy weaker signals than normal CW can do even with the best equipment an operators. Extremely slow modes like the one I mentioned in the video can dig 20 to 25 dB deeper into the noise, greatly extending range. There are also slow digital modes that can get down to those levels (JT9-10, WSPR-15, EbNaut, ...)
The slower you send cw morse code the less bandwidth used, the lower noise levels are on the receiver, the further a weak signal can be picked up. Those are the advantages of sending and receiving extreme slow cw morse code
It is 2023! You can talk faster than one word an hour!
Of course, but those of us who do this kind of thing either do it because we are fascinated with propagation at LF, or want to learn about antennas and circuits for use there, or just for the challenge. For me, it is all three. At this frequency, talking faster means your signal doesn't go as far. To get long distances we need super slow to dig deeper into the noise.
Very interesting but no demonstration?
I watch the whole thing waiting for a demonstration at the end LOL
One word per hour. Wow. So it's completely useless. 👍👍
To each their own. Some people get into ham radio to talk. Others to learn and experiment. I had a lot of fun learning about propagation at LF, learning about different types of circuits and techniques and trying to overcome the tremendous challenges of getting a signal to go anywhere on this frequency at any rate of communication.
*SO **#WHY** YOU WANT TO .. BE "WHERE" THE "GERMAN WETTER STATION" IS !!!*
*... IS A LITTLE "STRANGE" ... DO YOU THINK !!!*
*THERE ARE "SPACE" A LOT OF "SPACE"... AND YOU GO "137 KHZ" ..???*
*(PEOPLE ON SHIPS ..WANT TO **#HEAR** WHAT LOOK LIKE ..AROUND "THEM"..)*
*.... **#WHY** ARE "YOU" TRYING TO "MAKE TROUBLE" ????*
NNNN
Not my choice! We can only transmit on frequencies allowed by our government issued licenses. Here in the USA, and in most other countries (including Germany) our Amateur Radio license allows us to use 135.7 to 137.8 kHz. It would be very nice for us if we could move lower or higher to get away from the big interference from high power commercial stations in Germany and Hungary, but our license does not allow that!