Philly's regional rail system was huge prior to the collapse of private service. Virtually every line in the system was dramatically truncated by the time SEPTA regularized electric-only services in 80's. Newtown, New Hope, Bethlahem, and Reading all had services back in the day.
They do plan on trying to restore a bulk of what once was on the lines they have right now, but new lines are something else entirely. I dont think SEPTA has enough revenue and state money to get those done.
It'll be really interesting to see how the Biden plan affects some of these. SEPTA seems like a logical choice to facilitate the restoration to Reading, but it's now listed in Amtrak's plans with the current admin. I think if it's only Reading-Philly, SEPTA makes more sense. But if you had a way to make a loop PHL-RDG-ABE-NYC, that has Amtrak written all over it (and would be amazing for Berks and the Lehigh Valley).
Bethlehem and Reading are outside the five county area SEPTA covers. Also, all four of the destinations you mention were non-electrified service. SEPTA tried to keep diesel-electric MUs to transport from Newtown to Fox Chase where electrification began but ridership wasn’t sufficient. I actually think New Hope was spun off by the Reading to the New Hope and Ivyland before SEPTA took control of commuter rail.
As a follow up to this story from a local, the station's opening was indeed delayed to August 21st, 2022 (so less than a month from now) and the station will be named Wawa rather than Middletown if the signage at the station is any indication. Also, just yesterday, the borough council of West Chester voted unanimously to support an effort to restore service all the way back to West Chester. I was out hiking along the disused portion of the line between Wawa and a quarry just near Glen Mills, and the formerly broken rails have been temporary patched up, the weeds along the tracks have been cleared, and the tracks at the quarry which were on rapidly eroding ground were removed completely, likely to start work on stabilization and erosion management. From all indications thus far, it seems like SEPTA and the local governments are serious about restoring the service on the line to what it once was, so there is some good news to go with the annoyance of the delays. I plan to go to the new Wawa station when it opens on the 21st, so I can see for myself what it's like.
@@JoeyLovesTrains The outer end of the Silver Line (known as the Library Line) from Washington Junction to Library is the subject of a “best use study”, which are fancy words for “We don’t want to continue maintaining this line and are looking for ways to get away with abandoning it”. They’ve reduced service on the line, they’re bringing back 2-car trains on the other lines but not on the Library Line, and are actively encouraging people to use the Blue Line instead. My guess is they’re going to eventually reduce it to a shuttle between Library and Washington Junction like they did with the Drake Line before getting rid of it entirely.
@@trashrabbit69 Heh, we’re getting a “BRT” between Pittsburgh and Oakland even though everyone wanted rail and the project was at one point going to be rail. For perspective, Pittsburgh-Oakland gets over 3 times as much transit ridership as the entire light rail network, yet they think painting some red lanes on 5th and Forbes Avenues and cutting a few stops from the 61 and 71 bus routes will be the solution to the area’s transportation problems. Our politicians tell us “We don’t have enough money to fund rail” while several billion are being spent on new toll highways around the region that most people are against and won’t use.
How frequently do trains service the lines? Pre pandemic Metra (here in Chicago) was once every hour during non rush and once every 15-30 minutes during rush hours. Now is all over the place but about every 1-2 hours, though I expect it to revert to normal ops soon.
Yea honestly because they have a pretty extensive system. Like with good frequency it could def feel the void of some areas that aren’t covered by the subway
@@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife Not 100% sure but the Airport Line runs every half-hourly while the rest is every hour to two hours. Pre pandemic GO Transit (Toronto) ran trains every 15 min at peak on the Lakeshore Lines and half-hourly at other times. And as you heard GO is electrifying and upgrading their network to frequent RER service.
I wish Septa would make a train route from Lansdale to Quakertown. I know it's a big dream, but Quakertown has grown a lot over the years. I think it would be worth the cost to upgrade the tracks.
The Chester Creek Branch still had freight trains until the flooding in 1972. Remember seeing them go by, I think once a day, when I was a young child, playing with my cousin, who lived on Lincoln Drive in Brookhaven, just above Creek Road.
Back when the West Chester Branch was operated by the PRR, most West Chester trains began and terminated in Media. They were Media - West Chester and Media - Philadelphia trains. Only a select few went all the way from Broad Street Station (and later Suburban Station) in Center City, Philadelphia.
Great video, thanks! One note, "Wawa" is Lenni Lenape (pronounced Len-AH-pee) dialect, not Ojibway. The Lenape were also known as "Delawares" by the European settlers.
A perfect example of trail that would make an immediate impact for rail is the now Schuylkill River Trail that runs from Reading to Norristown (and then Philly). That ROW is tailor-made for the passenger rail restoration - already hits Reading, Exeter/Gibraltar, Birdsboro, Pottstown, Limerick, Phoenixville, and Oaks. But it's privately owned now and I imagine the pushback would be severe.
What I liked about exploring the Greater Philly system, is that it was most like the S-bahan operations witnessed in Europe. They at least appear to be forward thinking by referring to it as "regional" vs. "commuter" interconnecting to outlying commerce nodes, as opposed to being merely satellite parking in the middle of nowhere, intended to reduce vehicle counts on the radial highways during peak hours.
Your passing comment on rail trails brings me back to the time I was heavy doing advocacy. The irony was not lost on me. as the political culture of suburbia often used a trail to preempt its use as a transit facility, its local supporters failing to appreciate the synergy of walking, cycling and mass transit to promote less car dependent land use patterns.
The Cynwyd (kinwood) line is a very sad case of forgotten maintenance but the powers that be decided its redundancy with the Manayunk Norristown line justified its removal in the 1980s. University City has since been renamed "Penn Medicine"
Philadelphia’s population is growing EVER SO slowly ... but SEPTA’s MAIN PRIORITY should be extending the Broad St Subway up Roosevelt Blvd ... That’s what the area REALLY needs!
@@blue9multimediagroup well THOSE people are leaving the area now and the demand is great for a 29 minute commute to center city as opposed to at least an hour
Not the BSL because the BSL does not go into Northeast Philadelphia. It goes into Northwest Philadelphia through Nedro Avenue . However The Market Frankford Line does and that’s the line that would be extended if they do so. The MFL goes through Frankford Avenue and it has recently provided a 10 stop bus to go directly from Frankford Avenue through the entire Philadelphia section oF the Boulevard upward to Neshaminy Road in Bensalem into The Neshaminy Mall.
@@295g295 where would it junction? It maybe easier to take it up chestnut hill west, rising at North Philadelphia Station.. or just complete the Extension at Erie... those tunnels have already been started.
Thanks a lot! Providing historical context really shines a light on how much better transit is today (comfort/accessibility/safety wise) and how lacking it is at the same time...
Great coverage of revival of my old home line. Sadly, the classic station where the WC and Octararo lines met was torn down. BYW: the Wawa convenience stores were an outgrowth of the Wawa Dairy. Cows grazed where the Hq. is now.
If you’re ever in the NYC Metro Area again chasing R211s (if they ever get here) LIRR does have a new Elmont Station they’re building nr Belmont Park for the new Hockey Arena. Great Videos’s as always.
I also would LOVE to see service restored on those abandoned lines. I have walked that trail and they could restore service and leave part of the walking trail intact. Some of those abandoned lines would be near impossible to restore but as you said, fun to think about. The original tracks went beyond west Chester. That would be awesome to restore but they have built a few buildings where the tracks use to be so guess it's just something fun to think about.
They're putting these cardboard box houses all over the area. What was a nice wooded area is now covered in these crap houses. They are building row homes nearby also.
I'd love to see your take on the Lackawanna Cutoff, which I understand is being somewhat restored to service. In particular, how would you compare its design characteristics to modern high-speed rail systems? It seems so ahead of its time - it's compelling to imagine how different our existing rail network would be, had it been built to the same standards as the Lackawanna Cutoff.
@@TheFourFoot I had not seen Alan Fisher's video (until today), but I have watched most of Chuck Wash's videos about the Cutoff. With your knowledge and experience; as evidenced by your other excellent videos; I imagine you could tell the story concisely, yet with all the fascinating details of how it compares to real-life working railroads of today.
They stopped running passenger service on the cutoff when I was a kid. When I got into my 30s I thought, this is a no-brainer, NJT will restore the ROW and I'll be taking joy rides on the line before I retire. Well, I retired 😩
Just towards the end of the video you can see right before the station platforms is where the Octoraro branch would have headed west. Right now it's an access road for the station development. Though not a whole lot of development as you go out that line, it definitely heads out in a direction all on its own. It would provide service to an area that has none nearby. I think it makes a lot more sense to restore the Octoraro Branch then to resume service from Wawa to West Chester.
Love the drone footage of the line between Elwyn and Wawa (Middletown) station. Not that it matters, but the word Lenni (as in Lenni Road) is pronounced "Len-Eye". I know because I grew up within walking distance of it in the suburban development (Riddlewood) that is seen along the north side of the line in your drone footage between Williamson College and the location of the old Glen Riddle station. I still live nearby and I am very much looking forward to seeing the opening of the Wawa (Middletown) station later this year, assuming, that is, they finish the work by then. Thanks for the video.
I've been looking forward for this station to open since they first started building it. I work in the Wawa Corp headquarters (Red Roof) and would love to be able to take the train to work. I'm a bit worried about part of the walk being along Rt 1 where the road is a bit narrow, but there is a wooded trail that leads to Red Roof not far from the overpass. Just hope they make sure there is a clear path to get to the south side of the tracks, as most of the infrastructure they are putting up is on the north side.
An additional difficulty with rerouting through the Chester Creek Branch is that the trackage it would connect with in Chester is actually Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor, meaning SEPTA service is subordinate to Amtrak. The Media Branch is fully under SEPTA’s control. The Trenton and Paoli Lines are similarly Amtrak-controlled, although since Amtrak’s service to Harrisburg and Pittsburgh is less frequent than traffic on the Northeast Corridor, the Paoli line is less subject to delays. The Airport line uses trackage adjacent to the Amtrak right of way to avoid conflict.
For sure! It’s never going to happen, but I just thought I’d throw it out there. Funny how Amtrak is always screaming about how bad delaying trains is until it’s on their tracks lol
@@TheFourFoot There is talk about restoring service to Pottstown and Reading that might be Pennsylvania-supported Amtrak service. Still very preliminary.
@@gerryphilly53 SEPTA already runs on the Amtrak tracks through Chester on the Northeast corridor all the way down to Wilmington so I don't think it would be much of a stretch for them to run trains off of the Chester Creek Branch. That being said it would cost billions to repair the Chester Creek Branch and every day they're turning more of it into a rail trail.
Wow! Great job. For someone not from the area you pretty much nailed it except for, as you said, a couple of forgivable mispronunciations. I used to ride the line occasionally to West Chester back in 1980. Your drone footage was terrific as well. Kudos. There was also a short lived steam locomotive tourist line that operated between Wawa and Concordville in the late 1960s, know as the Wawa Concordville RR. There is some 8mm footage of it posted to TH-cam as well.
@@gregarious119 it’s honestly really annoying I would even be fine with paying the extra 50 cents if I could use Apple Pay like you can use Apple Pay to buy keycards and reload your key card so why not for the busses and the trains
This station might be what the other inbound to Philly stations need to clear up parking. People who live outside of Elwyn station which includes as far as West Chester, drive in and parking fills up almost instantly. The next station is Media station which has the same problem. About 550 parking spaces between the 2 of them and all full by 830ish AM. It's crazy.
That was the pre-pandemic situation. Despite the end of restrictions on office occupancy, most office workers are still working at home. It’s crazy how in the blink of an eye parking went from one of SEPTA’s biggest concerns to the least of its worries.
"Ma Ma I want Wa Wa" was an advertising slogan from long ago for the Wa Wa dairy which gave birth to the convenience store. The Cynwyd line continued parallel to the Reading to Norristown where it had a high level platform station next to Readings DeKalb street station both connected by ped. tunnel to the streets . I remember how smelly they were as a child. Ah, the good old days. LOL
Wawa is a Cuban slang for bus. My aunt and my mother said that word when they talked about which bus to take in order to go to a specific department store in NYC. Yes, I am Cuban born in Havana, and my family would ordinarily say autobus.
Great video! I drive through there everyday. I'm in that new development a couple times a day. Looking forward to all the construction being completed very soon. I did read some people correcting your pronunciations, but I didn't read every comment. I will give you the correct pronunciation for Lenni Road though it is (Lenn-eye). 😉
It’s pronounced University City, not Universal City. :) Love these videos. If you ever come back to the land of SEPTA, the Claymont station in Delaware is moving a few hundred feet north from its current location on a curve on the NEC to straight tracks in the former steel mill. I believe it’s closer to the old abandoned Naamans station.
I went by the Lenni and Wawa station locations this weekend (2/20/22). It doesn't look like much work has been completed at the Wawa station although, from Lenni on down the track infrastructure looks pretty much finished. To think, this station was supposed to open at the end of 2021.
In Dallas the DART Silver Line commuter rail is starting construction along the former cotton belt corridor. Although there isn't much interesting construction yet, there definitely will be when they build the viaducts pulling the line south of the old corridor to connect with the Red line at Cityline/Bush. Opening has been delayed to March 2023 now, so it may be another year before it's interesting.
It would be really nice and valuable for septa if they were to restore all of the former regional rail lines and build maybe 1 or 3 more subway lines to help ease pressure off of buses and the MFL and BSL.
Thanks for a video from the Delaware Valley! Live in the area and excited to see the extension/resumption of service. I remember service to West Chester when I was very young.
I would LOVE to see service restored on theses lines. I have walked the new trail from end to end and it would be much cooler as a tourist railroad than a walking trail. As for the West Chester branch. I have road that train and I don't see why Septa and the West Chester tourist branch can't share. The Tourist train only runs once a week and Septa could work around that schedule. There are many many old lines in this area I would love to see restored but for now its just wishful thinking.
Wow wow wow! This was so FASCINATING. I live about a 20 minute drive from there and I didn't know even half of this interesting information. I thought the drone footage was just awesome because I live in this area, but I have never seen it from an aerial view. And yes it is difficult to know how to pronounce some of the names of places here. You are forgiven because at least you tried. On that note Cynwyd is pronounced like "Kinwood" Thank you so much for sharing such a beautiful story. I think I'll subscribe to your channel just because of this well thought out and truly educational video.
Make sure you discuss the proposal to build the North-South Rail Link. Also, please make documentaries about the Purple Line (in Maryland), and the Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project.
@@gregarious119 as a montco resident, I want it. My only complaint is the fact that SEPTA is spending funding that's already limited in the middle of a pandemic on planning when there's more urgent needs that need funding, like crowded buses. I want to push montco commissioners to have montco pull more of the funding weight
@@jhonezcronic only the NIMBY homeowners up in KOP are against it. Everyone else as stated wants it and it would do way better than the current 124,125 buses from Center City and the 123 could stay around as an alternate.
@@TheFourFoot Not really. I don't remember Broad St Station, so Reading Terminal was much more impressive than Suburban Station. Never spent a lot of time PRR trains. Although the Tunnel was seen as pie in the sky boondoggle I think the end result has been good for the Delaware Valley. I am a member of the Reading Company Technical and Historical Society. Living in FL near the EOT of the Deerhaven Sub, CSX, former SAL.
Sadly, although it looks it to someone from a less populated area, Elwyn parking is NOT ample parking. Before COIVD it was filled by 7:15-7:30AM on weekdays. If you wanted to catch a 8:20 train, you'd have to be there by 7:15, or you couldn't park in the lot. Wawa station was supposed to help alleviate this problem by drawing some of the parking customers away from Elwyn.
You're from Nebraska? I'm impressed with your research. When you were in the area I hope you took the time and experienced at least once the Philly area's Signature Sandwich the Cheesesteak. This is just me but my favorite eatery nearby is Jim's Steeaks, 469 Baltimore Pike in the Stoney Creek Center in Springfield, Delaware County. It's about 2 miles off the Blue Route (I-476, Exit 3). Same great sandwich and cheese fries you get at Jim's on South Street in Philly but without the parking hassles and the line going out the door. Full disclosure, I am not employed or anyway connected to Jim's. Just my personal favorite.
Don't forget to visit Grand Central Station next year when the east side access trains start rolling.... currently the largest transit project in North America.... definitely in dollars, of course, it's NY!
Thanking of lines to do research on! They were talking about restoring the Lacawanna cut off,.. that’s been a curiosity for a while where that project is going,.. so if you’re looking for another line to do that I think would be a great documentary
Are you aware of the Bright Line being built in Florida? This would run from Miami to Orland Jetport along the Florida East Coast rail line to Cocoa area to its own track line, correctly under construction, next to an existing highway to the Jetport and then on to the Tampa area.
Well SEPTA has a Norristown High Speed line starting construction somepoint within the next 1-2 years? From the mainline its going into King of Prussia and towards valley forge, thats something i think you should keep an eye on. As well as the media/elwyn line will one day (within the next 5-6 years i beleive) have service all the way to west chester, i beleive the next segment startes once the wawa station opens, so another thing to watch. Theres a whole philly 2045 plan that details all the projects septa wants done by then if you can find it, i highly recommend taking a look!
I personally don't think SEPTA is going to go back to West Chester anytime soon, definitely not in the next five or six years. It would probably cost around $500,000,000 and the track between West Chester and Wawa is very windy and it's single tracked most of the way making the trip take much longer than if you were to use the Harrisburg line. SEPTA says maybe in twenty years, there might be enough people living out there by then to justify rebuilding it.
Although you pronounced a few of the local names wrong (it's Len-EYE Rd). However, hats off to pronouncing Manyunk correctly! I can't wait for this station to open, as I have family living within walking distance of the new station and traveling from center city philly will be much more convenient
@@TheFourFoot The Massachusetts South Coast Rail?!! I have lots of mixed feelings about that project, so hearing your take would be very interesting indeed!
@@ElmerCat Lynn observed "Passover" once again for this line, higher cost, lower ridership, that has been degraded by NIMBY politics, and questionable design and utility.
If R3 West Trenton,NJ to Wawa, PA were to be extended back to West chester there is going to be a problem is the travel time. Because the shortest travel time between Philadelphia and West chester involves taking SEPTA 92 bus then R5 Thorndale to Doylestown line at Exton Station to 30th street
4 new stations will be on the Northeast corridor between New Rochelle, NY and Penn Station. Service may begin before those stations are fully built (2025).
Great video and love the channel! Since you were asking for ideas, what about the Windsor SMART extension in Sonoma County, CA? It is a 3.0-mile extension of the existing SMART commuter rail from Santa Rosa that is under construction, but due to financial issues of the pandemic, opening of the extension has been delayed to 2022. Not sure how much work has actually been done at this point.
When I was there last year, they had removed the existing tracks north of Airport Blvd, but not much other construction was visible, and it was raining. Expect a video in a few months... Thanks for the suggestion!
As a west chester university student, a rail line would make my life much nice
I can imagine!
Philly's regional rail system was huge prior to the collapse of private service. Virtually every line in the system was dramatically truncated by the time SEPTA regularized electric-only services in 80's. Newtown, New Hope, Bethlahem, and Reading all had services back in the day.
Indeed, it’s a shame that so much was lost
They do plan on trying to restore a bulk of what once was on the lines they have right now, but new lines are something else entirely. I dont think SEPTA has enough revenue and state money to get those done.
It'll be really interesting to see how the Biden plan affects some of these. SEPTA seems like a logical choice to facilitate the restoration to Reading, but it's now listed in Amtrak's plans with the current admin. I think if it's only Reading-Philly, SEPTA makes more sense. But if you had a way to make a loop PHL-RDG-ABE-NYC, that has Amtrak written all over it (and would be amazing for Berks and the Lehigh Valley).
@gregarious119 if Amtrak can pull that off, it would be awesome!
Bethlehem and Reading are outside the five county area SEPTA covers. Also, all four of the destinations you mention were non-electrified service. SEPTA tried to keep diesel-electric MUs to transport from Newtown to Fox Chase where electrification began but ridership wasn’t sufficient. I actually think New Hope was spun off by the Reading to the New Hope and Ivyland before SEPTA took control of commuter rail.
As a follow up to this story from a local, the station's opening was indeed delayed to August 21st, 2022 (so less than a month from now) and the station will be named Wawa rather than Middletown if the signage at the station is any indication. Also, just yesterday, the borough council of West Chester voted unanimously to support an effort to restore service all the way back to West Chester. I was out hiking along the disused portion of the line between Wawa and a quarry just near Glen Mills, and the formerly broken rails have been temporary patched up, the weeds along the tracks have been cleared, and the tracks at the quarry which were on rapidly eroding ground were removed completely, likely to start work on stabilization and erosion management. From all indications thus far, it seems like SEPTA and the local governments are serious about restoring the service on the line to what it once was, so there is some good news to go with the annoyance of the delays. I plan to go to the new Wawa station when it opens on the 21st, so I can see for myself what it's like.
“Removing electrified rail transit in the 21st century is both sad and foolish”
*Please* tell that to Port Authority in Pittsburgh 🙄🙄🙄
Yeahhhh
@@TheFourFoot what are they doing? They closing down more lines?
Oh no, more BRT? I thought they were talking about bringing back the Brown Line. Is that what they're going for?
@@JoeyLovesTrains The outer end of the Silver Line (known as the Library Line) from Washington Junction to Library is the subject of a “best use study”, which are fancy words for “We don’t want to continue maintaining this line and are looking for ways to get away with abandoning it”.
They’ve reduced service on the line, they’re bringing back 2-car trains on the other lines but not on the Library Line, and are actively encouraging people to use the Blue Line instead. My guess is they’re going to eventually reduce it to a shuttle between Library and Washington Junction like they did with the Drake Line before getting rid of it entirely.
@@trashrabbit69 Heh, we’re getting a “BRT” between Pittsburgh and Oakland even though everyone wanted rail and the project was at one point going to be rail. For perspective, Pittsburgh-Oakland gets over 3 times as much transit ridership as the entire light rail network, yet they think painting some red lanes on 5th and Forbes Avenues and cutting a few stops from the 61 and 71 bus routes will be the solution to the area’s transportation problems.
Our politicians tell us “We don’t have enough money to fund rail” while several billion are being spent on new toll highways around the region that most people are against and won’t use.
I wish SEPTA actually had good frequencies so that it's more like the RER in Paris.
Indeed...
How frequently do trains service the lines? Pre pandemic Metra (here in Chicago) was once every hour during non rush and once every 15-30 minutes during rush hours. Now is all over the place but about every 1-2 hours, though I expect it to revert to normal ops soon.
Yea honestly because they have a pretty extensive system. Like with good frequency it could def feel the void of some areas that aren’t covered by the subway
@@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife Not 100% sure but the Airport Line runs every half-hourly while the rest is every hour to two hours. Pre pandemic GO Transit (Toronto) ran trains every 15 min at peak on the Lakeshore Lines and half-hourly at other times. And as you heard GO is electrifying and upgrading their network to frequent RER service.
@@jpgm2015 Yep. The lines could really act as a second rapid transit system for the area.
You might be from the mid-West but being a former Philadelphian here your handling of the names of these places was OUTSTANDING!!!
As someone who lives right in this area, I really enjoyed this history! Thank you!
I’m glad you liked it! Thanks!
I always enjoyed riding Amtrak from Penn Station/NY to Trenton, NJ and transferring to SEPTA into Philly. Plus, I saved some money that way.
Lol why not NJ to trenton then SEPTA
I wish Septa would make a train route from Lansdale to Quakertown. I know it's a big dream, but Quakertown has grown a lot over the years. I think it would be worth the cost to upgrade the tracks.
The Chester Creek Branch still had freight trains until the flooding in 1972. Remember seeing them go by, I think once a day, when I was a young child, playing with my cousin, who lived on Lincoln Drive in Brookhaven, just above Creek Road.
Back when the West Chester Branch was operated by the PRR, most West Chester trains began and terminated in Media. They were Media - West Chester and Media - Philadelphia trains. Only a select few went all the way from Broad Street Station (and later Suburban Station) in Center City, Philadelphia.
Interesting, thanks! I didn’t know that.
Always glad to share my knowledge with others. :)@@TheFourFoot
I live about 3 miles from the new Wawa station and really appreciate your review!
Nice! I’m glad you liked it!
Great video, thanks! One note, "Wawa" is Lenni Lenape (pronounced Len-AH-pee) dialect, not Ojibway. The Lenape were also known as "Delawares" by the European settlers.
A perfect example of trail that would make an immediate impact for rail is the now Schuylkill River Trail that runs from Reading to Norristown (and then Philly). That ROW is tailor-made for the passenger rail restoration - already hits Reading, Exeter/Gibraltar, Birdsboro, Pottstown, Limerick, Phoenixville, and Oaks. But it's privately owned now and I imagine the pushback would be severe.
That’s unfortunate. I’ve sure it would be useful though!
What I liked about exploring the Greater Philly system, is that it was most like the S-bahan operations witnessed in Europe.
They at least appear to be forward thinking by referring to it as "regional" vs. "commuter" interconnecting to outlying commerce nodes, as opposed to being merely satellite parking in the middle of nowhere, intended to reduce vehicle counts on the radial highways during peak hours.
Absolutely!
Your passing comment on rail trails brings me back to the time I was heavy doing advocacy.
The irony was not lost on me. as the political culture of suburbia often used a trail to preempt its use as a transit facility, its local supporters failing to appreciate the synergy of walking, cycling and mass transit to promote less car dependent land use patterns.
Absolutely. I know it’s difficult in some places to fit 2 tracks and a path, but it’s really the best alternative.
The Cynwyd (kinwood) line is a very sad case of forgotten maintenance but the powers that be decided its redundancy with the Manayunk Norristown line justified its removal in the 1980s.
University City has since been renamed "Penn Medicine"
Philadelphia’s population is growing EVER SO slowly ... but SEPTA’s MAIN PRIORITY should be extending the Broad St Subway up Roosevelt Blvd ... That’s what the area REALLY needs!
Tell that to the ppl that live up there and have fought it since the PRT era.
@@blue9multimediagroup well THOSE people are leaving the area now and the demand is great for a 29 minute commute to center city as opposed to at least an hour
Not the BSL because the BSL does not go into Northeast Philadelphia. It goes into Northwest Philadelphia through Nedro Avenue . However The Market Frankford Line does and that’s the line that would be extended if they do so. The MFL goes through Frankford Avenue and it has recently provided a 10 stop bus to go directly from Frankford Avenue through the entire Philadelphia section oF the Boulevard upward to Neshaminy Road in Bensalem into The Neshaminy Mall.
or -- Convert the Fox Chase line to link to Broad Street Subway. > 3:46
@@295g295 where would it junction? It maybe easier to take it up chestnut hill west, rising at North Philadelphia Station.. or just complete the Extension at Erie... those tunnels have already been started.
I live not far from the line. I'm happy to see Wawa being [re-]established. I went past though there before and it was looking good so far
Your best video yet! Especially the Tremont bit ;)
Thanks a lot! Providing historical context really shines a light on how much better transit is today (comfort/accessibility/safety wise) and how lacking it is at the same time...
I would like to see an updated video once the station opens! It should be sometime in late 2022.
I'm always interested in a new rail station! Thanks for the video!
Glad you liked it!
Great coverage of revival of my old home line. Sadly, the classic station where the WC and Octararo lines met was torn down. BYW: the Wawa convenience stores were an outgrowth of the Wawa Dairy. Cows grazed where the Hq. is now.
So cool to click and see your city being featured. Great job!
Thanks a lot!
Thank for an interesting video. I lived in Philadelphia for for 30 years and some time in Chester county. It brought back some great memories.
That’s awesome! I’m glad you liked it!
If you’re ever in the NYC Metro Area again chasing R211s (if they ever get here) LIRR does have a new Elmont Station they’re building nr Belmont Park for the new Hockey Arena.
Great Videos’s as always.
Excellent! Thanks!
@@TheFourFoot one of the platforms is due to open in the fall.
That’s awesome!
Finally a video about Wawa Station!
I also would LOVE to see service restored on those abandoned lines. I have walked that trail and they could restore service and leave part of the walking trail intact.
Some of those abandoned lines would be near impossible to restore but as you said, fun to think about.
The original tracks went beyond west Chester. That would be awesome to restore but they have built a few buildings where the tracks use to be so guess it's just something fun to think about.
That's some real low density housing being built there 😓. Anyways, awesome video as always!
They're putting these cardboard box houses all over the area. What was a nice wooded area is now covered in these crap houses. They are building row homes nearby also.
Indeed, it’s not very dense, but given America’s housing shortage, it is better than nothing. Thanks!
I'd love to see your take on the Lackawanna Cutoff, which I understand is being somewhat restored to service. In particular, how would you compare its design characteristics to modern high-speed rail systems? It seems so ahead of its time - it's compelling to imagine how different our existing rail network would be, had it been built to the same standards as the Lackawanna Cutoff.
I’m sure you’ve seen Alan Fisher’s video on that? I should do a video on it as well...it’s a really interesting piece of infrastructure!
@@TheFourFoot I had not seen Alan Fisher's video (until today), but I have watched most of Chuck Wash's videos about the Cutoff. With your knowledge and experience; as evidenced by your other excellent videos; I imagine you could tell the story concisely, yet with all the fascinating details of how it compares to real-life working railroads of today.
I really appreciate that! It’s definitely worth a shot lol
They stopped running passenger service on the cutoff when I was a kid. When I got into my 30s I thought, this is a no-brainer, NJT will restore the ROW and I'll be taking joy rides on the line before I retire. Well, I retired 😩
Ugh, yeahhh lol
Just towards the end of the video you can see right before the station platforms is where the Octoraro branch would have headed west. Right now it's an access road for the station development. Though not a whole lot of development as you go out that line, it definitely heads out in a direction all on its own. It would provide service to an area that has none nearby. I think it makes a lot more sense to restore the Octoraro Branch then to resume service from Wawa to West Chester.
Interesting to hear. It would sure be neat to see!
Love the drone footage of the line between Elwyn and Wawa (Middletown) station.
Not that it matters, but the word Lenni (as in Lenni Road) is pronounced "Len-Eye". I know because I grew up within walking distance of it in the suburban development (Riddlewood) that is seen along the north side of the line in your drone footage between Williamson College and the location of the old Glen Riddle station. I still live nearby and I am very much looking forward to seeing the opening of the Wawa (Middletown) station later this year, assuming, that is, they finish the work by then. Thanks for the video.
That’s awesome! Yeah I’m glad I’m not the one saying it will be done by the end of 2021, but I’m sure it will be great when it opens!
I've been looking forward for this station to open since they first started building it. I work in the Wawa Corp headquarters (Red Roof) and would love to be able to take the train to work. I'm a bit worried about part of the walk being along Rt 1 where the road is a bit narrow, but there is a wooded trail that leads to Red Roof not far from the overpass. Just hope they make sure there is a clear path to get to the south side of the tracks, as most of the infrastructure they are putting up is on the north side.
Yeah, hopefully that path will open sooner rather than later. Bike/pedestrian infrastructure always takes a back seat with timing.
Ouu, Toronto 😍 and mtl commuter electrification projects will make it normal to take commuter rail. It will be a win for both cities.
I’m sure it will!
Septa included a turnout for a future connection to the Octoraro spur near the new Wawa Station
An additional difficulty with rerouting through the Chester Creek Branch is that the trackage it would connect with in Chester is actually Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor, meaning SEPTA service is subordinate to Amtrak. The Media Branch is fully under SEPTA’s control. The Trenton and Paoli Lines are similarly Amtrak-controlled, although since Amtrak’s service to Harrisburg and Pittsburgh is less frequent than traffic on the Northeast Corridor, the Paoli line is less subject to delays. The Airport line uses trackage adjacent to the Amtrak right of way to avoid conflict.
For sure! It’s never going to happen, but I just thought I’d throw it out there. Funny how Amtrak is always screaming about how bad delaying trains is until it’s on their tracks lol
@@TheFourFoot There is talk about restoring service to Pottstown and Reading that might be Pennsylvania-supported Amtrak service. Still very preliminary.
@@gerryphilly53 That will never happen.
@@gerryphilly53 SEPTA already runs on the Amtrak tracks through Chester on the Northeast corridor all the way down to Wilmington so I don't think it would be much of a stretch for them to run trains off of the Chester Creek Branch. That being said it would cost billions to repair the Chester Creek Branch and every day they're turning more of it into a rail trail.
Great video! And I liked the history part!
Thanks a lot! I’m glad!
Wow! Great job. For someone not from the area you pretty much nailed it except for, as you said, a couple of forgivable mispronunciations. I used to ride the line occasionally to West Chester back in 1980. Your drone footage was terrific as well. Kudos. There was also a short lived steam locomotive tourist line that operated between Wawa and Concordville in the late 1960s, know as the Wawa Concordville RR. There is some 8mm footage of it posted to TH-cam as well.
I did run across some pictures of that railroad, but I haven’t checked out the video yet. Thanks a lot!
They need to start allowing Apple Pay and Google Pay on septa there's no reason it shouldn't be available yet when septa key is contactless
This is SO true.
@@gregarious119 it’s honestly really annoying I would even be fine with paying the extra 50 cents if I could use Apple Pay like you can use Apple Pay to buy keycards and reload your key card so why not for the busses and the trains
Septa is going to start an upgrade of Septa Key so one can pay by apps.
@@yvonneplant9434 that would be nice I would love to be able to add my septa key to my Apple wallet or use any other contactless card
This station might be what the other inbound to Philly stations need to clear up parking. People who live outside of Elwyn station which includes as far as West Chester, drive in and parking fills up almost instantly. The next station is Media station which has the same problem. About 550 parking spaces between the 2 of them and all full by 830ish AM. It's crazy.
I’m sure!
That was the pre-pandemic situation. Despite the end of restrictions on office occupancy, most office workers are still working at home. It’s crazy how in the blink of an eye parking went from one of SEPTA’s biggest concerns to the least of its worries.
Great review of this great line! I remember hearing that the West Chester Railroad is supposed to meet with Septa at Wawa (Middletown).
Hmmm that’s interesting indeed!
"Ma Ma I want Wa Wa" was an advertising slogan from long ago for the Wa Wa dairy which gave birth to the convenience store. The Cynwyd line continued parallel to the Reading to Norristown where it had a high level platform station next to Readings DeKalb street station both connected by ped. tunnel to the streets . I remember how smelly they were as a child. Ah, the good old days. LOL
Interesting! Thanks for the info!
Wawa is a Cuban slang for bus. My aunt and my mother said that word when they talked about which bus to take in
order to go to a specific department store in NYC. Yes, I am Cuban born in Havana, and my family would ordinarily say
autobus.
8:31 KIN-wid ...
The Cynwyd line was a Pennsylvania RR line which had continued only to a station in Manayunk since 1976.
Interesting! Thanks!
Great video! I drive through there everyday. I'm in that new development a couple times a day. Looking forward to all the construction being completed very soon.
I did read some people correcting your pronunciations, but I didn't read every comment. I will give you the correct pronunciation for Lenni Road though it is (Lenn-eye). 😉
It’s pronounced University City, not Universal City. :)
Love these videos. If you ever come back to the land of SEPTA, the Claymont station in Delaware is moving a few hundred feet north from its current location on a curve on the NEC to straight tracks in the former steel mill. I believe it’s closer to the old abandoned Naamans station.
Wow, I can read goodly lol. Thanks for that info, I will definitely check it out next time!
Now it’s called Penn Medicine station
@@elu0502 I was watching a video a few weeks ago. That confused me when I saw that. At least it reflects when's going on in the area.
8:15 - on - it'a ALWAYS ALL ABOUT POWER!
Grew up next to the West Chester Line in Glen Mills. No trains ran on it then. Spent most of my child hood playing on the tracks
I went by the Lenni and Wawa station locations this weekend (2/20/22). It doesn't look like much work has been completed at the Wawa station although, from Lenni on down the track infrastructure looks pretty much finished. To think, this station was supposed to open at the end of 2021.
In Dallas the DART Silver Line commuter rail is starting construction along the former cotton belt corridor. Although there isn't much interesting construction yet, there definitely will be when they build the viaducts pulling the line south of the old corridor to connect with the Red line at Cityline/Bush. Opening has been delayed to March 2023 now, so it may be another year before it's interesting.
For sure! I definitely plan to get down there at some point!
Thank you for this interesting, thorough overview!
I was looking forward to this video! Glad that you got to get out there!
For sure! Thanks the tip! Somehow I managed to miss your video on Philadelphia, and guess what came up first when I was looking for footage lol
@@TheFourFoot haha true, eventually I need to make the 2nd and 3rd parts of that video series 😅
For sure!
It would be really nice and valuable for septa if they were to restore all of the former regional rail lines and build maybe 1 or 3 more subway lines to help ease pressure off of buses and the MFL and BSL.
Thanks for a video from the Delaware Valley! Live in the area and excited to see the extension/resumption of service. I remember service to West Chester when I was very young.
Nice! Hopefully service will be resumed sooner rather than later!
@@TheFourFoot I agree! Hopefully it will!
I would LOVE to see service restored on theses lines. I have walked the new trail from end to end and it would be much cooler as a tourist railroad than a walking trail. As for the West Chester branch. I have road that train and I don't see why Septa and the West Chester tourist branch can't share. The Tourist train only runs once a week and Septa could work around that schedule. There are many many old lines in this area I would love to see restored but for now its just wishful thinking.
Cynwyd is pronounced "Kinwood". Lenni Road is pronounced "Len-eye". Delco has it's own dialect. Ask Kate Winslet.
Thanks for the insight! Lol
And it's "New-Ark" not "Newurk". The Delaware one is pronounced differently.
Gotcha lol
@@ulrichforever It's not pronounced differently. It's pronounced the proper way. :) It's pronouned the way it's spelled!
So it should be hyphenated like above ☝️ LoL
Great well researched video with a lot of good information! Glad I found it.
This is something I probably should know more about. Thank you for the update.
Glad you liked it!
Wow wow wow! This was so FASCINATING. I live about a 20 minute drive from there and I didn't know even half of this interesting information. I thought the drone footage was just awesome because I live in this area, but I have never seen it from an aerial view. And yes it is difficult to know how to pronounce some of the names of places here. You are forgiven because at least you tried. On that note Cynwyd is pronounced like "Kinwood"
Thank you so much for sharing such a beautiful story. I think I'll subscribe to your channel just because of this well thought out and truly educational video.
I never expected you to be in the Philly area to cover this project. I learned so much about this project. All I can say is thank you!
I’m glad you liked it! The scenery of this line is wonderful. I’m sure the area is beautiful in the fall!
Congrats to ppl in this area that will benefit from this
Choo choo! I'm a train and I approve this excellent video!
Thanks a lot!
It looks like the Cleveland RTA rapid
Make sure you discuss the proposal to build the North-South Rail Link. Also, please make documentaries about the Purple Line (in Maryland), and the Lackawanna Cut-Off Restoration Project.
Purple line video should (hopefully) be out next week, the other two may take some time, but they’re good ideas!
@@TheFourFoot and can you discuss Vision 42 (the light rail project in Manhattan)? And can you also discuss the Northern Branch Corridor Project?
Seattle is doing several line extensions. You should cover that.
I definitely plan to!
Septa is planning a spur of the NHSL to go to King of Prussia. They haven't started construction yet but will in the next few years
I’ll keep it in mind!
The community doesn’t want it though
@@jhonezcronic Maybe the KoP community doesn't, but everyone to the north and west does :)
@@gregarious119 as a montco resident, I want it. My only complaint is the fact that SEPTA is spending funding that's already limited in the middle of a pandemic on planning when there's more urgent needs that need funding, like crowded buses. I want to push montco commissioners to have montco pull more of the funding weight
@@jhonezcronic only the NIMBY homeowners up in KOP are against it. Everyone else as stated wants it and it would do way better than the current 124,125 buses from Center City and the 123 could stay around as an alternate.
Also: nice highlight of the Princeton Wawa store, which is probably the most elegant store in the chain, & couldn’t be more convenient to transit!
I was certainly impressed by it lol
I do not payronize Wawa - Wawa is a money gouging ripoff!
Good review of the non-used PRR lines. Grew up on the Doylestown Branch of the RDG. My father grew up on the PRR side.
Nice! Lol do you have a preference to the two former systems?
@@TheFourFoot Not really. I don't remember Broad St Station, so Reading Terminal was much more impressive than Suburban Station. Never spent a lot of time PRR trains. Although the Tunnel was seen as pie in the sky boondoggle I think the end result has been good for the Delaware Valley. I am a member of the Reading Company Technical and Historical Society. Living in FL near the EOT of the Deerhaven Sub, CSX, former SAL.
Like the video very much .Hope there more to come.
There are!
Eastside Access of the LIRR into Grand Central Madison.
Lenni is pronounced LEN-eye. Thanks for nice update. Lived in Delaware County 30 years and remember when SEPTA still ran to West Chester.
Nice! I’m glad you liked it! Also thanks for letting me know lol
@@TheFourFootIt hurts my ears when you say Lenni as Lenny. But anyway, it is Len Eye as stated above. :)
8:32 *shudders* It’s pronounced “Kin-wud”
Noted lol
@@TheFourFoot It's Welsh.
Kin wid.
Wood is local parlance
Hoping that in the not-so-distant future you will be covering the projects of restoring rail service to Reading, Scranton and Allentown!
That would definitely be a good video!
Sadly, although it looks it to someone from a less populated area, Elwyn parking is NOT ample parking. Before COIVD it was filled by 7:15-7:30AM on weekdays. If you wanted to catch a 8:20 train, you'd have to be there by 7:15, or you couldn't park in the lot. Wawa station was supposed to help alleviate this problem by drawing some of the parking customers away from Elwyn.
You're from Nebraska? I'm impressed with your research. When you were in the area I hope you took the time and experienced at least once the Philly area's Signature Sandwich the Cheesesteak. This is just me but my favorite eatery nearby is Jim's Steeaks, 469 Baltimore Pike in the Stoney Creek Center in Springfield, Delaware County. It's about 2 miles off the Blue Route (I-476, Exit 3). Same great sandwich and cheese fries you get at Jim's on South Street in Philly but without the parking hassles and the line going out the door. Full disclosure, I am not employed or anyway connected to Jim's. Just my personal favorite.
Don't forget to visit Grand Central Station next year when the east side access trains start rolling.... currently the largest transit project in North America.... definitely in dollars, of course, it's NY!
I can’t wait for that project to be completed, and I’m sure millions of people feel the same way. In every way, it’s a pretty amazing project.
Denver's RTD also has a fully-electric regional rail network.
Good day to you. The correct pronounciation of Cynwyd is (Kenwood).
There are 14 Newarks in the US. However, in the State of Delaware, it is pronounced "New"-"Ark" (two syllables).
I think you forgot RTD in Denver is fully electrified
THIS IS AN EPIC MOMENT!
Just so you know for the future, Cynwyd is pronounced Kin-wid.
Plenty going on at Sound Transit if you need more video ideas.
Oh for sure. The north gate extension opens October 2. It’s on the list lol.
Thanking of lines to do research on! They were talking about restoring the Lacawanna cut off,.. that’s been a curiosity for a while where that project is going,.. so if you’re looking for another line to do that I think would be a great documentary
It’s an interesting line for sure. And very popular with the number of suggestions I’ve gotten!
Interesting that the name isn’t related to the local Native American group, the Lenni Lanape.
Someone else said it was, I’m probably wrong lol
@@TheFourFoot No you appear to be right. The reference appears to be from Longfellow’s “Song of Hiawatha”. Hiawatha was Ojibwa.
Interesting, thanks!
Are you aware of the Bright Line being built in Florida? This would run from Miami to Orland Jetport along the Florida East Coast rail line to Cocoa area to its own track line, correctly under construction, next to an existing highway to the Jetport and then on to the Tampa area.
Yes lol. I have a video showing the entirety of the Orlando extension, if you’re interested!
Well SEPTA has a Norristown High Speed line starting construction somepoint within the next 1-2 years? From the mainline its going into King of Prussia and towards valley forge, thats something i think you should keep an eye on. As well as the media/elwyn line will one day (within the next 5-6 years i beleive) have service all the way to west chester, i beleive the next segment startes once the wawa station opens, so another thing to watch. Theres a whole philly 2045 plan that details all the projects septa wants done by then if you can find it, i highly recommend taking a look!
Thanks a lot for the great info! I will!
I personally don't think SEPTA is going to go back to West Chester anytime soon, definitely not in the next five or six years. It would probably cost around $500,000,000 and the track between West Chester and Wawa is very windy and it's single tracked most of the way making the trip take much longer than if you were to use the Harrisburg line. SEPTA says maybe in twenty years, there might be enough people living out there by then to justify rebuilding it.
Although you pronounced a few of the local names wrong (it's Len-EYE Rd). However, hats off to pronouncing Manyunk correctly!
I can't wait for this station to open, as I have family living within walking distance of the new station and traveling from center city philly will be much more convenient
That’s awesome! Also, thanks for educating me lol
Do a video on the MBTAs South Coast line
Sitting in a car he's used to go to a new rail station is the very definition of ironic.
Yeah the whole premise of this channel is to promote passenger rail expansion, where ya know, it like doesn’t exist and stuff currently…
Would also love to see a video like this on South Coast Rail!
Yeah I definitely need to do that...
@@TheFourFoot The Massachusetts South Coast Rail?!! I have lots of mixed feelings about that project, so hearing your take would be very interesting indeed!
I’m definitely gonna have to do a video on that, seems like there’s a lot of interest!
@@ElmerCat Lynn observed "Passover" once again for this line, higher cost, lower ridership, that has been degraded by NIMBY politics, and questionable design and utility.
@@interstellarphred I don't understand - Lynn is on the North Shore, not the South Coast. Could you please explain what you mean?
If R3 West Trenton,NJ to Wawa, PA were to be extended back to West chester there is going to be a problem is the travel time. Because the shortest travel time between Philadelphia and West chester involves taking SEPTA 92 bus then R5 Thorndale to Doylestown line at Exton Station to 30th street
4 new stations will be on the Northeast corridor between New Rochelle, NY and Penn Station. Service may begin before those stations are fully built (2025).
Good to know!
Great video and love the channel! Since you were asking for ideas, what about the Windsor SMART extension in Sonoma County, CA? It is a 3.0-mile extension of the existing SMART commuter rail from Santa Rosa that is under construction, but due to financial issues of the pandemic, opening of the extension has been delayed to 2022. Not sure how much work has actually been done at this point.
When I was there last year, they had removed the existing tracks north of Airport Blvd, but not much other construction was visible, and it was raining. Expect a video in a few months...
Thanks for the suggestion!
Did they really run services with only one car? That's almost unheard of anywhere in the US nowadays!
For sure lol
Yea they did run 1 car train
Have you met the Princeton Dinky?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_Branch
@@pseydtonne use it when going into Princeton
@@elu0502 yes but rare at late night and Sundays
You do video on Speta Overbrook Station
To me, Septa always sounded like the name of a cleaning product or antiseptic - as if their trains were somehow more sanitary than other systems.
Lol nice
To me, SEPTA sounds like "septic" as in septic tank or septic shock. Neither of which have a particularly positive sentiment.
Green line extension in Minneapolis-St. Paul
It’s on the list! Thanks for the suggestion!
Great video.
Thanks a lot!
LENN-eye
Nice video!
Thanks a lot!
The original Wawa train station was cuter.
Lenni : pronunciation is Lehn-EYE. As in Lenni Lenape Native Americans. ;-)
What's that police car on the shelf behind your right ear 😁😁😁?