Could Centre-Forwards Become Extinct?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2021
- From Ferenc Puskas and Eusebio to Romario and Marco van Basten, throughout most of the history of football, centre-forwards and strikers have been the most celebrated players within the sport.
That has changed over the last 10-15 years, with Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo becoming the best and the most prolific soccer players on the planet whilst not playing as centre-forwards.
Their rise is part of a broader trend though, and a longer term decline - so in this video, HITC Sevens takes a look at why strikers are dying out and whether they will eventually become extinct. - กีฬา
Wayne Rooney deserves a shout too.
People always say his career was "ruined" or shortened because he didnt play as an out and out striker for most of his career but thats where his greatness came from. He played as a 9, false 9, 10 and even deeper, and has a boatload of medals and is uniteds and englands top goal scorer to show for it
Was never top scorer in the league in 16 seasons and passed the 20 league goal marks twice in his career..
This was because he was played in the position he was deployed in. He had the best finishes a striker has, but he was also a selfless player who is willing to assist his fellow teammates.
@@Olori-OgunSo? Football is not about individual accolades. Look at his assists as well, and his Premier League winners' medals
Never thought I would hear vinicius's name among top scorer this soon...... So happy with his devlopment this season.
Breakout season. Glad it came. It took a while.
Wolverhampton Wanderers Hwang is an instinctive poacher. He's scored 4 goals in 6 games this season. You're absolutely right teams tend to play goal scoring forwards as opposed to the old fashioned strikers of previous decades.
ye nowadays it's all abt the numbers. if u don't get them ur long gone
Any player being played in the final third position... is practically tasked with: scoring goals. Be it a Striker, a CF, Target Man, "Stick with the Last Man" player.... They all have one fundamental target: to score goals!
Q
The longer HITC Sports isn't a morning upload anymore, it's now your time Alfie. It's YOUR TIME!
6:00 AM is morning
I still think you’ll see teams playing center forwards especially in international games when there’s not a lot time to actually mold a team and almost all results are important now due to no high profile friendlies anymore.
The Nations League was an error.
In hockey (the game played on ice and with similar structure to football), traditionally the centre (usually wearing #9) was the primary goal scorer. It was the left winger and right winger's jobs to pass the puck to the middle where the centre would score. But as coaching systems advanced in the 1970s (primarily the Soviets), the centre became the setup man, the one who ran the play and distributed the puck to the wingers or defencemen. The centre position didn't cease to exist, but the role and the duties changes. Other commenters mentioned "total football" as changing the game, and that's essentially what happened in hockey, too. It was no longer interchangeable three forwards and two defencemen sets, it was three five player units.
@Johnng Fred centres wear 19 in America I think
@Johnng Fred Prior to plane travel, numbers ~were~ important in hockey. Veterans and stars got low numbers, and rookies or fringe players got high numbers. Beds on the trains were assigned by uniforms - goalies (#1) always got a bed as did the top defencemen (#2-#6). If you wore 23, you slept upright in a chair.
@Johnng Fred For the most part, football doesn't "retire" numbers or have personalized ones, so the starting eleven almost always wear one to eleven. Probably every football mad kid dreams of wearing #10, and knows it will be available.
Lukaku is still consider a Centre forward right? Same as Haaland and Lewa. Centre forward won't extinct, it's just becoming a position that is hard to apply.
Why even comment this when he covers all of these players in the video?
@@Ren_1090 some people like to state the obvious to get a bit of attention
@@timsmith1323 i like to watch comments before watching the video
Lewandowski and Haaland are strikers not centre forwards
I always wanted to become a drummer and my favorite position was DM.
Oddly, this made sense…
My favorite was always CB
Number 5 here.
i’m a drummer and a CB lol
I think Raul Jimenez has kinda spent the last few years proving that the number 9 is still very much able to do the job.
Yes, Raul Jimenez is the epitome of what a modern striker should be. He holds the ball up well, brings other player's into attack, creates assists, scores goals and defends well too.
@@mohussain1615 the post ronaldo benzema is also a modern number 9 and we all couldn’t forget about lewandowski and last season’s Harry Kane
@@e-money9251 and haaland coming through as well
@@timsmith1323 and Cavani, Lukaku, Osimhen and Awoniyi
@@timsmith1323 yes
At the end of the day, we have tactics, until we have the anti-dote to that tactic, which makes the tactic evolve, until there's a solution, and so on and so forth. I really don't think we've seen the last of the traditional number 9. ⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽
it would be interesting what happens in future
it always comes full circle.
@@Qwertozy indeed
hegel currently frothing at the mouth
Giroud and Andre-Pierre Gignac come to mind of modern traditional number 9 still being used to relative effectiveness, even if the wingers are the focal points of their teams. Especially with Giroud, he would fit in perfectly in the 90s or early 00s as a target man who can play off a smaller CAM. And even though he is slower than the modern striker (Haaaland and Lewa) he is still lethal because of positioning and his poachers instict.
Would you describe Haaland as an out and out traditional no.9? I’ve never actually seen him play live, what’s his style?
I'd argue Giroud is still world class with his ability to pick a pass and interlink with his teammates, very nontraditional for a poacher. You could see it with a lot of his play during buildup at Arsenal and Chelsea (I haven't seen him much in Milan). I'd argue he's (or at least he used to be) a much slower version of Lukaku: brilliant poacher's instincts and off the ball movement, but equally capable of playing a one-two for a teammate that leads to a goal, he just isn't as good running with the ball because, well, I've seen faster lampposts on the ball. He definitely adds a valuable aerial presence and is a huge threat because of it, but don't discount his skill with the ball at his feet or it'll be the death of you.
I think a lot of his perceived existence as purely a target-man comes from the fact that he seems to have made a decision that he's only allowed to score with his head or off a volley.
It's a change in sports in general. The NBA being a prime example with positionless basketball. Players have to be more complete due to the dynamic nature of tactics. Lacazette may be a number 9 but he is now playing as a pressing 10 for Arsenal,Cancelo may be a wingback but he is still being utilized as a midfielder in possesion.
We've had this exact discussion in Germany as far back as 2014. At that time, we had loads of very talented offensive players that just happened to not be center forwards: Mario Götze, André Schürrle, Thomas Müller, Mesut Özil, Julian Draxler, ... At that point, we had a mediocre Mario Gomez and an aging Miroslav Klose as center forwards. That led Jogi Löw to experiment without center forwards in the matches leading up to the World Cup. The idea was that, with so many creative and incredibly talented players, the burden of scoring goals could be distributed on several shoulders, making attacs more difficult to predict for the opponent. They tried that pretty hard, but never managed to make it work. You could sense that something was missing.
Thankfully, during the tournament Jogi Löw returned to play with Miroslav Klose as center forward. And the difference was there immediately. I think, even though he was already 36 years old at that point, he was a very modern center forward. He scored goals consistently, but that wasn't even why he was so valuable for the German game. He was incredibly good at binding the opponent's defensive players, thus creating space for all those other creative players to shine in. But you couldn't ignore him either and concentrate on defending against those, because then he would always be there and score himself. He was incredibly good at reading the game. Since he retired, we never had a great center forward in Germany who could step in. And that's the major reason why we had disappointing results in all tournaments since, I believe.
We still need good center forwards. But they need to be versatile. They can't be a one man show. They have to be good with the ball, efficient scorers, but they also need to be good team players who can free up space for their teammates.
Great analysis, i 100% agree with you. I can see the traditional traits of a CF be adapted into modern football while still keeping this type of player alive. Klose is a great example for this and i can't express how much we're missing him, he has been our best striker for over 10 years and his departure from the national team was a heartbreak because he made me fall in love with football in 2014
Can you do a documentary on the afc Wimbledon on the nine promotions in eleven years, how they’re a fan own club and how they have a stadium in plough lane now.
The story of they lost the club, how the F A allowed that and won’t allow that anymore.
How they went up the English football leagues.
Please!
Yes and talk about how they have a substitute coach like Tifo Football did
Why dont you make it yourself? You seem very informed on this topic.
no
I play fifa with Afc Wimbledon road to glory career 😂, they won yesterdays fa cup game though I can't watch their match.
With the rise in need to make false runs or makes runs from behind or create chances for the wide attackers from the middle, its quite a possibility.
I guess the question is more if that's a specialist role or something that a midfielder can do or even a wing-back.
As football evolves soon the sweeper keeper will be a prominent thing. Goalkeepers that are uber comfortable on the ball & can rush their goal, sweep up in defence, and start attacks in earnest. They'll soon have to have the old Beckenbauer or Lothar Mattheus skills on top of their goalkeeping duties. Shot stopping won't be enough. They are already required to 'build up from the back'; possibly the skill set that was the final nail in an aging Petr Cech's career.
It is less that strikers have died and more that their role has changed. Gone are the days of a striker who only has to to win headers and score in the box.
They have to pressure, link up play etc now. However there are still old school strikers playing at high levels like Calvert Lewin
Hitc sevens and tifo football videos is like my morning cup of coffee. Love listening to y'all on my way to work. Keep it up, good content!
Great video. I think a number of things are at play. We see changing trends faster and faster, now with some cycling of older ideas, often combined with new elements. But we also see the most fluidity in formation, position and a players role than we have ever seen before.
Day 1: Do a documentary on Guy Roux (manager of AJ Auxerre for a total of 44 years)
Great shout
Managed Roux for almost half a decade
Now that would be a phenomenal documentary
Wouldn't say the position is dying out, just the roles and duties have evolved. I'd add that wingers are more inverted now, and playmakers tend to be deeper now too. Just like many specialised jobs outside football/sports - evolve or die out.
"No one has posters of the bass player or the drummer in their bedroom"
I'm guessing you didn't have many musicians or rock fans as friends when you were younger :)
Same i noticed this guy is misinformed about a lot of things from this video
Well it's the same. Some people may have had the drummer or the base player, many more would have had the stiker. Same in football
@@Yeahagreed such as what?
@@Notverysupercoach So no one is incorrect still. Not that big a deal tho
All thanks to Pep's Barcelona and Cruyff's philosophy.
Sacchi made CFs more complete with Van Basten AND Spaletti introduced the concept of false 9 with Totti.
The start was in the 60's with Helenio Herrera's catenaccio which was countered by Rinus Michel's totaalvoetbal in the 70, the 80's people like Sacchi, Washington Tabarez en Leo Benhakeer were playing like this.
Guardiola took the baton at some point it is true, but this have been a cycle long in the making so far.
Couldn't agree with you guys more. You could say Pep gave the extra push to this trend when it was still not that popular.
Arsenal looks a much better team with Lacazette in, he can press from the front, hold up play, make false runs to create space, and still have a wonderful shot. The role he plays in right now is a pretty classic CF position.
You mentioning Roy Makaay (favorite striker from his days at Deportivo Coruña💙🤍) made my morning! Greetings from NYC!
It could well be cyclical; the more teams adjust to playing again multifunctional attackers, the more they will be caught out when coming up against the increasingly alien concept of a traditional centre-forward. Might explain how Lukaku and Haaland are so effective.
Idea: 7 best players from countries where football isn’t the most popular sport
I definitely enjoyed this video. Very well presented
I really enjoy these videos that are based on almost scientific observations and analysis. And I firmly agree, an older idea can come back, but almost never as a carbon copy. It always evolves hand in hand with the general style of the game. Thanks, Alfie!
this channel is great for proper content
Thank you Alfie, for always keep us up to date and entertained about football's developments. (Even us unwashed Americans who define 'football' differently).
These videos are sensational 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Amazing video yet again, 10/10
great one alfie
The last CF to win the Ballon d'Or was Shevchenko in 2004. That makes nearly 17 years. In the 17 before 2004, there was Owen, Ronaldo, Papin, Weah, and van Basten. You could also count Belanov in there.
Lewandowski 2020 idc youll say he didnt get it we know he deserved it
Hi guys! It would be great to have a video of an XI of players that had the most fall out of form, in the last 5 years. Either players that should be in their prime right now, or great promises that flopped or are just regular players.
Greetings from Portugal
It’s crazy how many teams play without a out and out striker. I support Barrow in League 2 and we currently do not have a CF 🤯
Day 42 : Every professional seasons of one player ranked from worst to best ( Messi, Maradona,Pele, Henry who ever you want)
Good analysis
I think the cdm position is in jeopardy also, great vid!
Could you make a documentary on the false 9 position and their different types as well as an overall history of the position from attacking midfielders such as Nandor Hidegkuti, Bobby Charlton and Francesco Totti to second strikers such as Matthias Sindelar, Adolfo Pedernera and Roberto Firmino now. Would make for an interesting video.
This is pretty true I coach a u11 youth team and most of the qualities of my forwards are those seen in wingers and the teams we play against usually don't have a single designated forwards.
This is very interesting
Thank you
The first time I saw a team that didn't need a center forward (though they still fielded one) was France's national team that won the 1998 world cup.
Guevarc'h? (Sorry about spelling) was non existent lol
Brazil 1970?
@@DaveHogg he probably wasn’t even born yet to see that
@@garethjohnson8579 Guevar'ch was basically useless that entire World Cup both in terms of scoring and setup. Henri on the right wing along with Zidane as playmaker and the right back were their most dangerous players so yh. Much of the comment was how France won the WC without a striker which purists at the time thought was just wrong. So it was after 1998 that Henri went to Arsenal and became a highly mobile centre forward who ran the channels from outside in.
@@michaelmaxwell2464 yeah i know, i was agreeing with original comment because although they had a striker on the field technically, he was literally non-existent the whole tournament
when talking about kane you said even deeper, im convinced hes been playing as a 6 this season
He’s been playing like Firmino last season - an enganche trequartista mezzala raumdeuter free 6 fullback
@@rudymatheson1415 ahhhh, you forgot the inverted before fullback
@@taxdodger9373 inverted traditional fullback playing as a free 8 according to @LFC.the best
Centre Forwards won’t become extinct they beautiful game will always change and tactics will adapt to them the tactics of Guardiola and Cruyff will eventually become outdated just like the ones used by the likes of Herbert Chapman and Gustav Sebes
They’re really showing their age now as other teams like Chelsea have out classes them
@@limpa756 Guardiola had to adapt. The original Tiki-Taka was ended by Bayern and Germany in 2013 and 2014
@@eggselent9814 He adapted, he is playing far from his Barca days today, he actually copied Klopp's and Tuchel's ideas with is own reference from other sports, current City plays more like Dortmund of precisely that 2013 era.
@@lobachevscki That’s true. Guardiolas O.G tactics are way outdated nowadays. But i see them making a comeback. Everything can make a comeback once someone uses it successfully
Can you guys do a video about which position has the most influnce in deciding whether a team wins games. Defenders, Gks, midfielders or attackers
Hey Alife, can you make a video about Gremio? They are currently in the relegation zone in the Brazilian Serie A towards the end of the season
1:11 Really threw me off, had to double check I was watching a HITC Sevens video 😂
Gegenpress is the current meta. Can't wait for the next patch.
*Harry Kane
* Harland
* lukaaku
* Suarez
* Lewondoski
* benzema
* zlatan
*morata
* gabi barbosa
And many more , it’s never going to be extinct.
Indeed you could Lukaku and even Ronaldo is evolving into a 9.
7 Best Championship Clubs Who Failed To Win Promotion To The Premier League Over The Last 7 Years!
I hope you do/tackle this one as I’ve been interested more and more with the second-fourth tiers of English Football and wish I had the first thought about where to start finding a wealth of research!
However the question is how good Spain in 2012 could have been using a real forward. Everyone remembers the blistering 4:0 against Italy but not their lucky win against Croatia, that they needed penalties to beat Portugal and their draw against Italy in the group stages. Especially against Croatia it was slow passes all over with Croatia pressing them and countering, looking more dangerous a lot of the time. At some time when the oposition sits so deep then a real striker can be the difference. Instead of passing the ball around you can put in crosses and have a target man laying off for his teammates, shooting himself and creating chaos in the box. Even if he doesn't get the ball the defenders could clear it into other players. For me Bayern is doing it right, playing a ball dominant tactics but having also 2 dangerous players in the box for headers in Müller and Lewandowski.
And don't forget Bayern still have some wingers that can score a ton of goals. Like Gnabry or Sane
This is a very good point. Italy was an opponent particularly weak to their tiki taka (and they really had a bad night), but your comments apply to 2010 and 2008 even with David Villa and Fernando Torres there (and Torres being the hero en 2008).
I was thinking right the way through this that there seemed to be a return to the inside forwards of old, and lo and behold right at the end you mentioned it. Great minds etc.
I'm halfway through the Inverting the Pyramid book that any much maligned self respecting football hipster should read, and have noticed how in today's game quite a lot of the Magyar style of play seems to be coming back in to fashion. The way full backs operate now as traditional wingers would, meaning supposed wingers are now moreso an inside forward, points to the pyramid possibly being inverted again. The modern anti-centre forward seems to have some common ground with how Puskas would play, making most teams attack with a line of 5 like they would back then.
The other parallel also being how some teams are playing with a back three like some sides would, whereas others (Leeds for example) rely on Phillips dropping back to cover when the full backs push forward.
Centre forwards do seem to have a place in the future though, with some sides now going to the 5 3 2 wingback systems of the 90s, with a more orthodox free role number 10 playing behind two strikers.
It's worth pointing out too that a lot of leagues outside of the very elite levels of the game do still use traditional number 9s, particularly in Scotland.
Great video as ever though Alfie, enjoyed that one.
This is exactly why I'm a goalkeeper. The position never changes, and the role will always be the same.
It has though, as he said keepers now are expected to be more comfortable with the ball at their feet than they were previously.
The main job will always be the same: goal keeping.
It just the side job that is constantly changing (not as fast as other position, but the change still happen): long pass, build up, sweeping.
Benzema is pretty much the prototype playmaking number 9
Also, this one was packed with ads...
As an Atlanta United fan, i love that you put Josef Martinez in the video
Nxt there will be no need for a goalie either🙃 tiki taka has evolved into tacky tiki. Great vid again alfie. Jus in time for the brkfst👌
Traditional Wingers are mostly gone these days
They used to be players who Ran the length of the pitch before feeding in a cross.
Now they cut inside and are strikers in their own right
Traditional Wingers, used to play outfield but now is the role of fullbacks
And the game is better for it but it has been so for a while. Think Ronaldo, Beckham and Best who were much more than traditional 7s.
This guy has a great football mind
As much as most people love scoring goals, I'm keen on being the tower in front of it. Yes I love to be a defender as much as being a forward
The reason this has happened, is because teams have figured out that by not having a no 9, you can confuse/ take central defenders out because they have to come out looking for someone to mark, and thats when spaces appear in behind
We are basically moving back to the 2-3-5 (or 3-2-5) days. Wingers are now inside forwards, and full backs are now outside forwards. Only this time it's more controlled build-up than 1890s hoofball.
A number 9 in the sense of a tredisional goal poacher is. The modern game needs more from almost every posistion then it did 15 20 years ago. Look at goal keepers they need to be better at a lot of different things to be condidered top keepers not just shot stopping. Forwards are becoming the same.
I feel that CF and Striker are considered the same position by many people these days however they are quite different. A CF usually drops into the play sometimes into an almost midfield like position whereas a striker stays on the last man and waits for the ball to come to them
I'm a Second Striker (Centre Foward) and I am really starting to realise how this position is underused and overlooked
Currently struggling to find a place in the first XI coz I have to play other positions
5:28 Martial was top scorer in 2020, and he played upfront
I like the evolution of tactics, football fans generally hate change but I'm interested in that
Interesting list. Cf role is definitely evolving. Aubameyang is a striker who gets goals and was similar to poacher at his best(clearly not his best now)
HITC a list of the most-least popular positions in Football would be cool. You could see how many players register as wingers compared to a CF's as well as see how many purely RWB/LWB's there are. I've always wondered why there are so fewer CM's than there used to be while LM's, RM's, CAM's, and CDM's have risen for the last 3 decades.
Fifa positions don’t really explain it. There are fewer LM’s and RM’s actually but more LF’s and RF’s
And you’re right, the wing back has taken a huge leap
‘Pure’ wingbacks don’t really exist. Wingback is a position that only exists in a few formation and therefore no player really goes their entire career as a wingback, it’s just a slightly more advanced version of full back. Every wingback in world football grew up playing as either a winger, fullback or DM
The old-fashioned centre-forward never dies!
I think we could potentially see partnerships like Lautaro and Lukaku at Inter last year. One crafty smaller player and a "Stoßstürmer"(unfortunately don't know the english translation)
big chunky boi?
Keegan and toshack big man little man
Can you do video about half-backs i never Heard about them.
There is always going to be the need for a center forward, but the talent pool is very low, so managers don’t bother to use them
The most popular formations, 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 and 4-2-3-1, etc also don’t lend themselves to “traditional” striker play. The number nine in these formations is most affective (usually) dropping slightly back and facilitating to the wingers. Rather than in older formations like the 4-4-2 in which the wingers would send the ball into the striker(s). Also, the two striker formations are also out of vogue. I mean that’s an obvious one. Literally fewer starting strikers...
Javier Hernandez has been starting to play well for the first time in a long time, although it seems hes of the last of the poachers
Chicharito? When people say my name and Hernández I know it must be Chicharito
Hi I'm Ximba , I'm a final year medical student from South africa at wits, I like your channel , I'm a liverpool fan and one day I wish to come to the UK and watch liverpool live at anfield and to meet you one day,please make my wish come true
Problem with Greenwood is he doesn't dribble like Salah, son or sterling. He looks to shoot whereas players like son and Salah have a lot of assists as well.
He's 19/20 and is going to be a striker in the future, bit of a difference.
video idea: 7 players that would play in differant positions 50 years ago
There are many of CF-less teams besides Spain in the Euros, it feels like an oversimplification. Perhaps the role of 9 is changing in the PL, but that's not a novel idea in any way.
Classic example in Brazil in 1970. That team starting line up had 5 different players who acted as #10 on their clubs (Pele, Tostão, Rivellino, Jairzinho and Gerson). Tostão was adapted as a false 9, floating and making space for Jairzinho runs from the flank (similar to Firmino and today)
Another classic example are Rinus Michels teams, which played without a classic 9, giving plenty of space to Cruijff to come from the back
3:34 the 2012 euros were in Poland and Ukraine weren’t they?
Still play cf as one of my positions 👍
Haaland,Lewandowski, Vlahovic…. Rebirth of central forwards
I first noticed the emphasis on wingers as strikers during the 1997 Champions League final from Dortmund. I always saw them as "ballcrossers". But I blame Guardiola for the death of the 9 goalpoachers. He didn't rate them, see how he treated Eto, Zlatan, Kun, Jesus and Lewandowski. Playing most off position. Now he refuses to have a recognized striker on his squad. It's all about the midfield and ball possession. The center forward is now like a 10 or a pivot like Lacazette and Firmino play. Lewandowski is the last remaining breed with Haaland and Lukaku (suffering that philosophy now with Chelsea)
Can you do a video on players who got in the spotlight because the 1st choice got an injury?
They already nearly have. Haaland is probably the last genuine out and out truly top class striker to emerge in the last few years. Mbappe for instance isn't really a traditional striker. If you take the other genuine pure top strikers in the world, Lewandowski, Kane, Lukaku they are all getting on a bit, where as up to about the mid 2000's, seemingly every single season there would be at least one, but usually several guys in their teens or early 20's that would emerge and score 25 plus. Now everyones' a converted winger who plays upfront, or a converted striker who plays on the wing. Very few actual pure strikers appear any more at the highest levels and it's led to a drought of consistent goal scoring strikers.
You havent seen much South American football i guess. I wont compare the genius of Haaland to anybody, but South America is full of teams that end up nurturing Europe (Correa and Lautaro being examples for Inter to name the one I follow).
Lewy has averaged over a goal a game for five seasons lol over a bit? 😂
@@53rdand3rdShows I think you missed the point. I said getting on a bit (not over a bit) meaning he's getting old, not that he isn't still top quality.
9:26 you've clearly never watched South African football, the way they kick the ball forward its like watching primary school kids🤦♂️
The game has changed indeed, you’re right, but when you say the quality of the players has not gotten worse, I disagree. In fact, there’s been a drastic fall in the overall quality between let’s say 2007 and 2012 (and onwards), so much so that Messi and Ronaldo - once nothing more than two relatively interesting kids, not at all comparable with the superstars who made the headlines - have magically become two phenomenons, which is only due to the fact that the competition is weak. If players like Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (the real one), and others, were still around at the time Messi and CR were at their peak, believe me, there would have been very little talking about those two good but extremely overhyped players. Also, think about some names of players from the previous decades you mentioned and ask yourself if any player today is on that level, without thinking about stats (since those are contextual and mean relatively little), but just thinking about the way they played. Football is a different game now, where speed makes the difference, as opposed to some time ago, when technique was what mattered. The classic number 9 doesn’t fit modern football, since it is a more static role than what managers are looking for nowadays. Also, back to technique, it requires much more technique to play in the middle (unless you are a giant like Haaland or Lewandowski), and the best forwards in the modern game are better equipped with speed than actual technique, hence, you see most of the best footballers playing on the wings. It’s just the latest fashion - in a decade or two it’ll be gone and we’ll be speaking about something else :)
Giant? Lewandowski's like 6 ft 1.
Maybe we could compare each of those players at the very peak of their performances (Messi and Ronaldo in the early 2010s, Ronaldinho at Barca and Ronaldo Nazario at Inter), but what sets Messi and Ronaldo apart are the fact that they were and still are able to perform at the highest level for more than a decade, something that no other player has achieved.
Also you’re right about classic number 9 not fitting. In fact, none of the classic centre backs, classic wingers, classic fullbacks, classic number 10s or classic midfielders work in the modern era, because every player including the goalkeeper is required to be dynamic and be able to play the ball at their feet.
In fact, the modern game is closer to Cruyff’s vision of total football, in which he proposes that every player be adapt at playing each other’s role and interchange whenever needed. We’re seeing that with forwards being required to track back, fullbacks required to be stand-in midfielders (especially in Pep’s City), defenders able to being the ball forward etc. The modern game requires players to be skilled in as much skillsets as possible when traditionally certain players were only expected to do limited things.
please do TP Mazembe 2010 World Cup please I’m sure people would love that story
Nope, only Pep and Cruijff make them extinct. And now, Pep is having a hard time with his attacking midfielder
True
Craig Levein experimented this as early as 2009 with Scotland against the Czechs away in a qualifier and got absolutely slaughtered for it as we lost 1-0 with no shots on target but he was clearly ahead of his time but we didn’t have the players to pull it off but just thought I would pop that in as Spain won the World Cup the next year with a similar system and it was hailed as a managing genius decision but they had the right players to pull it off all mainly Barcelona players who already had a style and understanding of the tiki taka with freedom of movement with madrids Ramos and a few others in the starting 11
Also ranger played so called anti football in 2008 to get to the eufa cup final by the late great Walter smith RIP and were also slaughtered for it we knew our limits and played to our strengths it clearly worked to make the final by not conceding a single goal at home in the knockouts in 4 games (3 were 0-0 and 1 game we won 2-0 against strong opponents) and soaking up pressure and hitting teams away from home but then mourinio did it with real vs Bayern a few years later and won 2-0 with 28 percent possession and 2 shots in the whole game and he was a genius ??
We also beat a very good Lyon including benzema 3-0 away and drew 0-0 with Barcelona in a game we should have won
Agree overall with the premise that the role of center forwards is changing, but I don't know if I would say that this is the first time that "the world most prolific players were not center forwards".
There were plenty of times where the top talent was no playing as CF. In the mid 80s, it would be hard to put any CF ahead of Maradona, Zico or Platini. In the 70s, the crown belongs to Cruijff or Beckenbauer, even if Muller was a goal scoring machine. In the 60s, I would not put any CF ahead of Pele, Eusébio, Carlton or Best.
At least in Brazil, people always wanted the 10 much more than the 9.
Please make a video on why PSG haven't scored a goal in ligue 1 with Messi on the pitch
1:24 he was a good player 😊
I can see this in the prem but what about the other major leagues? also talk about having no room for static singularly skilled players have you seen ronaldo and messi's stats this season?
The meta has changed
6:37
Interesting example
van basten like players are slowly extininguishing, almost no top team use a static physical player like him anymore
I feel people play where their favourite players play, Gerrard was always my favourite player ever since I was a kid so I always played in midfield box to box or in the hole. Kids just want to be like their idols.
Pep doesn't use a cf: nothing
Hitc sport: why are there no more center forwards