Take The Ring vs Talking Backwards vs Damn Fine TV • Twin Peaks: The Return Judy Discussion
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Exclusive video version of Take The Ring and Damn Fine TV joining Talking Backwards for their Twin Peaks: The Return Judy discussion. Watch Patrick, Dave and Tyler dish it out with Jasmin, Mells and Jeremiah while discussing everything Judy - origins, theories and more!
#TwinPeaks #DavidLynch #Judy
Follow Talking Backwards here and wherever you get your podcasts: anchor.fm/talkingbackwards
Support them on Patreon and get great rewards including outtakes from this discussion: Patreon.com/talkingbackwards
Follow Damn Fine TV here and wherever you get your podcasts: Podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/damn-fine-tv/id1410835471
Support them on Patreon and get great rewards including outtakes from this discussion: Patreon.com/damnfinetv
• Like, share, and subscribe to Take The Ring on TH-cam (TakeTheRing.com)
• Exclusive content for $1 a month: Patreon.com/takethering430
• Follow on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram: @takethering430
Judy is the baby from Eraserhead all grown up
When Carrie releases her scream, the face Cooper pulls is so out of the ordinary like he's shocked and scared. That tells me something went wrong
There's a lot of good chemistry between everyone in this. Can you just combine all your podcasts permanently? This was fantastic.
Re the jumping man: In electronics a jumper is a short length of conductor used to close, open or bypass part of an electronic circuit.
I’m a bit late in watching this but I’ll just add this: Garmonbozia is the key to understanding all of this. Leland Palmer was molested as a child and this infected him with the evil spirit we know as Bob. Have you ever heard the saying “Hurt people hurt people”? He then goes on to molest his daughter Laura Palmer (and then kill her) and his wife Sarah is so out of it on pills she doesn’t even stop it, and then carries that pain and sorrow with her for the rest of her life. Her garmonbozia metastasises into a powerful spiritual cancer, and she becomes a vessel for Judy.
Two videos 😍 damn your comeback feels GOOOD!
hear hear
This channel is incredible, it’s like crack for me with infinite curiosity about this show.
So around 1:21:00 when you are talking about the last scene being the "end," I think it's important to note that time is completely disjointed in the series, because the lodgespaces seem to experience time both backwards and forwards. In this way, there is every reason to believe that there are events we have already seen that take place *after* that last scene. Somebody once posited the idea that, for example, the very last thing that happens (if you believe in the good interpretation) is Laura gazing upon the angel in the Waiting Room Purgatorial space, when there are the flashes of light on her and she is smiling and crying and laughing.
Judy is Laura's pain. Like how BOB is the entity Laura created to cope with the abuse, Judy is the entity created through her pain. It's the entity we see in the black lodge as Laura's doppelganger, and that pain lives within Sarah Palmer. Sarah has to bear it, because she allowed the abuse to happen. Laura freed of pain opens up her face to reveal white light. Sarah opens up her face to reveal consuming darkness.
Also “Richard and Linda” this one I feel without a doubt is Lynch holding hope that the audience keeps those names together…I didn’t when Richard Thorne popped up I immediately latched on and once he’s dead I was like wtf was that all about??? I rewatch the series a few times then it hits me….Mr.C and Cooper both go to Jeffries to get Judy’s location he gives both coppers a location…Mr.C is confronted by Richard Mr.C disarms him and they drive to the coordinates Mr.C sends Richard to Judy’s location that happens to be on a hill (Palmer house) he is overloaded with electricity as Mr.C looks up a scream bright light then darkness…exactly what happens to Richard in the Finale…
Judy is mentioned twice in the pilot which is why at the beginning of the Return we are asked to REMEMBER THIS SOUND
Judy is grief and trauma , Bob is fear and denial.
The meaning of Bob and Judy can be found in the lyrics of the Talking Heads song "Found a Job'.
Here's a taste:
"Just look at Bob and Judy; they're happy as can be,
Inventing situations, putting them on T.V."
2:05:50 the fact that Alice (who if not evil herself is a puppet of some evil force, presumably Judy) is scrambling to make up something to get Cooper and Laura away from the house and at the same time assure them that there has never been a Sarah Palmer living there, in which she ultimately fails because Laura remembers and screams, making the efforts of Alice worth nothing, makes me very optimistic about the ending of the whole thing. Whatever Alice's goal with trying to hide the fact the house she's living in is Sarah Palmer's house was, she has failed and that's gotta be a good thing. I don't trust Alice.
i need a friend group like this
Bob is in Leland Palmer, Judy is in Sarah Judith Palmer. Their offspring, Laura Palmer, is The One. Laura was always the one.
The one what?
@@BillyBong "The one that leads to the many" - See the Log Lady intro to the original pilot. See also Season 3, Part 10, which is entitled "Laura is the One"
@ActualMichael I understand that but what does that really mean? In the matrix, neo is "the one" but we understand what that means, he is the one who can see and decode the matrix. What does it mean for Laura Palmer to be the one?
Have you guys looked into the term Shaddai?
I will condense it down to the points which may apply to twin peaks and Jaodai, aside from the obvious similar sounding word morphism from Jaodai to Judy.
Shaddai in some versions is the god of mountains(mountains like twin peaks). In others is the god of many breasts(another way of reading twin peaks). In more depth El-Shaddai is another earlier term used for Yahweh and this form refers to the point where god decided the world was finished being created and set the limits between mind and matter.
In a sense, when you are finished with any activity the word Shaddai could be used to denote the job being complete, but in another it could be seen as the end of a great battle. This is because the origin myth tends to involve a battle between deity's or forces that culminate in creation as well as destruction in which an aging god dies and a newer god takes their place.
Relating that to other myths you see many battles between a storm god and a sea god usually represented by a serpent. This storm god is usually seen as taking its seat within mountains, which yes also applies to the Greek pantheon for example with Zeus on mount Olympus but in this example relates specifically to the Hebrew god (Moses and Abraham went up a mountain to speak to god).
This terminology was replaced when they moved away from a pantheon Hebrew religion into monotheism, which is when Yahweh replaces the older names for this specific deity. Yahweh meaning self sufficient rather than existing within a pantheon(I am what I am). But before Yahweh the title or name El was most used for that god with various forms like Elohim and El-Shaddai pointing to the roots of this deity being the victorious storm/sky God.
Okay so that's a very reductive explanation of a very long and complex subject which arose from the struggle between different religious beliefs coming into contact with each other but its kind of important to my point.
Twin peaks, the name of the show points at the twin mountain peaks. The native beliefs shown in the show were that the giant and Judy live on the twin peaks as is confirmed in the map deputy hawk kindly provides.
In this light, seeing that Shaddai, the many breasted goddess (yes this is one of the possible origins of Shaddai) being related to Jaodai becomes more compelling. The fact you can also interpret that title to mean god of the mountain, means we can then expand the potential to include a dualistic connotation.
Twin peaks points at two mountains with separate associated gods one of which can be described as a creator and the other, well lets just say there is an interpretation that Shaddai is a destructive force, god of the wasteland specifically.
One last thing to note, it is possible to read the texts in such a way as El-Shaddai being a female goddess and mother of creation.
Anywho, I encourage anyone that read all this to look into it and come to your own conclusions because I have already reached mine.
awesome - great info! I know Shaddai as (basically) one of the Hebrew names for God. this added context and ideas are excellent, thanks!
@@TakeTheRing Just thought I would throw an addition on, call it a bonus round.
Through the darkness of future past the magician longs to see, one chance out between two worlds fire walk with me.
Fire as Hawk tells us is a type of energy which we would call electricity today. Storm(electrical) god which you reach by ascending the mountain.
Then:
This it the water, this is the well, drink deep and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes and the dark within.
Water, the opposite of fire and as related in my last comment the storm god fights the sea god. To reach them you must descend.
The log lady warned about the glow of the moon fading and the darkness spreading, she also warned about the one below the moon.
A moons shadow, if you will. Shadow, Shindai.
And about the cycle. I feel like Bob was that Robert guy that lived close to Leland. He was abused, got taken over and started abusing Laura. Sorry, I am commenting so much. I am just thinking about everything while I am hearing you guys talk about it. XD
comment away my dude!
Anyone familiar with The *Golden Child* IYKYK
One of Eddie Murphy’s best movies and deeply based in Tibetan Buddhist demonology. The only weapon that can kill the demon in that story is the Ajanti Dagger, which is a triple-bladed knife known as a phurba to the Tibetans. Jao Dei is described by Gordon Cole as a being of intense negativity, and is basically a demon.
I like the idea that Carrie could have been a tulpa created by the giant to distract Judy or ultimately bad Coop.
Not sure if this was mentioned below but Judy was first mentioned in episode 3 by Cooper when he orders breakfast at the Great Northern Hotel.
Wow! This just came out five days ago? Amazing that The Return (and Twin Peaks in general) is still generating such deep exploration at this late date. Now, seeing as this video is fresh, I think that the likelihood that you'll be checking out the comments is pretty high, I would like to recommend that you watch the film THE EMPTY MAN, which - unlike Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2 - does the double-duty of a) having multiple points of interest in common with Twin Peaks, and b) also being an excellent film in and of itself (a personal favorite, actually). So check it out y'all! I bet it sparks some intriguing discussion, at the very least!
heard great things about Empty Man!
I ways found it mad that the scratching sound was from the very first episode when Audrey is forcing a pencil through a polystyrene cup.
woah
So much to drop I stumbled on something mind blowing so in Part 3 Cooper is presented a wall socket with 15 he’s stopped with the intention that he would die, a switch is flipped that changes the socket to 3 to which he goes through….Dougie has the 315 key…in episode 15 it’s that episode Dougie sticks a fork in which causes flashes a woman screaming before cutting to black…like the final moments of episode 18…15+3 is 18….🤯
Judy is the guiltiness unspoken feeling on wich was build the American dream : violence, crimes, despair, alcoholism, self destruction are her children. Sarah witnessed what happened to her own daughter but she prefered accepting the pills from Leland (the way it was filmed may made us feel that it became a kind of usual thing between Sarah and Leland and that Sarah is still partially conscient that something wrong will happen in "Fire walk with me"). Sarah became the most vivid and cruel avatar of this guiltiness wave : the mother who knew, looked away and said nothing,... we may imagine that secretly she more or less consciously hated the image of Laura (a Freudian syndrom ? The jealousy of the lost youth ? Or maybe the fact that the bug's scene in episod 8 may be interpetrated as a rape symbolism ?). David Lynch and Mark Frost created a piece of art with the apearance of a puzzle to resolve but in fact it's a tool to improve our spirit, our consciouseness, our feelings in order to destroy the illusion of American dream and to do something, to testify... maybe to confess and look for forgiveness. Jiao dai may be translated by "to confess" if Google is not too wrong.
But people may still see Twin Peaks as a kind of Da Vinci Code if they want, for me Twin Peaks is more like a Divine Comedy
Also, I thought the owls were spies for Bob. I make that connection because there's that one image of Bob and you see the owl face in his.
The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer confirms this in one of the conversations between Bob & LP.
One challenge regarding no one being right or wrong is that Frost and Lynch in part hold different visions. Lynch has said that The Secret History is *Frost's* version of TP's history (and so implicitly not Lynch's own).
Regarding the idea of Cooper being in a coma after being shot by Josie: Yes, that's a real possibility! I recently rewatched all of seasons 1 and 2 for the first time since their original airing in 1990/1991. (I had rewatched certain episodes and portions of episodes, but not all of both seasons.) I was struck by the Giant saying to Coop in the Great Northern, "The question is not where I'm from-it's where you've gone" (rough paraphrase). And while I've seen The Return only once (back in 2017), the fact that near the end we return to the Great Northern seems very significant.
Are any of you aware of The Roky-Verse ? This is a reference to Roky Erickson, whose mysteries never end. Jacques Tourneur directed "I Walked With A Zombie" and "Night Of The Demon" (The Babylonian fire demon) . Roky Erickson wrote "Stand For The Fire Demon". David Lynch : "Fire Walk With Me"
Twin peaks even in its finite form is one thing for sure....a golden goose.
40:25 That record scratching sound... Angst Rammstein watch it all, you'll not be disappointed. Also Engel for Gordon Coles whistle. IYKYK
I always thought of Laura as the White Horse.
me too, actually! planning on making a video about that eventually, thanks for watching!
@@TakeTheRing No problemo! Love your videos.
That's something interesting to think about. One & the same
@@talkingbackwardspod we never had time to get into it, but yeah, the white horse is like the frog moth to me - could go either way depending on how you read it
@@TakeTheRing We might have to do a sequel! There were many Judy related topics we didn't get to dive into during this 2 & a half hour discussion 😂
Judy is the Dreamer
Speaking on Windom having a gold ball, is it possible that is the doppelgänger of Windom and that’s why he shows up randomly with blackened teeth?
The male and female of Judy and Bob is not about a chess game, it's about electricity
This subject runs deep and has a long "Tail" LOL
19Judys LOL
2:14:45 she just blew my mind. based af.
1:14:55 There's a diff' version of the movie that is closer to what they had in mind before the studio interfered.
I Think I just discovered something, I think Laura Cooper are in reverse through a lot of the final scene it's settled for Cooper but you can tell when Cooper speaking that Laura is in reverse.
Twin Peaks The Return is definitely getting extended cut I just don’t believe just 18 hours of footage were filmed and if I’m being honest…I don’t believe any BTS drama there’s this narrative that they barley had enough footage for 6 episodes or Showtime saying David Lynch walked away due to budget is just odd…but I realized showtime is investing in a cult show, from 25 years ago do people still care? And boom you have orchestrated chaos give the illusion that Lynch is facing an uphill battle, uh oh he might not do it guys…just keeping the fire going.
Judy is the answer
Lynch did say there is a "correct interpretation" of Twin Peaks, though, he won't elaborate, as he wants each individual to define what it is, as you guys are aware...
I think Judy is a metaphor for sexual abuse.
As stated in season 2(?) Judy is an old entity maybe older than humanity itself. (Sexual abuse in the animal kingdom)
Judy "gives birth" to Bob because Laura cannot accept that her father did such gruesome acts on her and as a coping mechanism creates that incarnation of all evil.
That Judy is attracted by sexual energy reflects the risk of victims getting flashbacks of their abuse every time they're in contact with sexual topics / intimacy.
A wild theory but maybe Agent Cooper was abused himself (In his childhood?)
As Jeffries said Cooper already met Judy
Evil Coop could be a personification of the damaged individual hence void of emotion and out for violence.
Although Cooper could save Laura from her abuse. He couldn't stop the practice of abuse itself.
The White/Black Lodge and their inhabitors (Firemen / The Arm(?)) could be representations of human duality. The White Lodge and the Fireman could represent the Mind aka the morals and the rational/logical thinking. The Black Lodge on the other hand could represent the animalistic urge to reproduce and assert dominance.
Just my 2 cents :P
Sorry for any grammatical errors
Greetings from Germany :)
So its Gen-Z who created Twin Peaks, just like they invented vinyl and the Strat guitar, and yes Jazz, they came up with that to.
Judy is anyone who licks their finger before turning a book's page.
You should have listened to Jeffries
Also Alice could be an Alice in Wonderland (sarcastic) reference. The end is just another rabbit hole, after all. But I like your theories about Alice Tremont a lot.
Jumping Man is just minions for Twin Peaks fans. GIR is just minions for emos.
1:12:09 "Blair Witch 2 Pence and None the Witchier" 😛
the fact that the house number is 708 and judy/explosion thing happens in 8th episode changes everything, i feel like 708 is like a "is this future or is this past" thing that houses that same evil
By the way: this talk about the duality in the realm of the lodges reminds me of how Denise Bryson actually transcends this duality. Maybe she would have been able to defeat Judy and her male counterpart.
I thought the Laura orb was going to New Mexico, where the previous and succeeding scenes happen.
Did you ever listen to "Green is the colour" by the Pink Floyd ? The lyrics and the title may interesting you
Listen to the sounds....
The Return. Ep 1
First new scene
Record plays a sound.
If you listen closely.
Its Coopers last line in the return.
"What year is this?"
The sounds also play right before or after he says that in the last scence.
What is important about the number 315 (room agent cooper stayed in)? What does that number have to do with the electric pole in the trailer park? ...And sparkwood and 21? Hint, dont drive yourself crazy, you need to be into turning letters into numbers in a specific way, and know what to do once you do that... Then you need some pretty advanced knowledge of 'the hidden', and a Tool which can be mistaken for a symbol, used for drawing a Perfect Circle.
Jumping man’s a talisman
seeing americans make fun of bidets is funny af ngl, forgot you dont have them there lol
they are catching on! my folks have one and I'm getting one soon!
Some really good theories! I actually just dropped a Twin Peaks Documentary on my channel after visiting all the filming locations last summer. #headlesshorde
Pretty sure "A Key to Twin Peaks" already solved the Judy mystery in a slam dunk but still so many great mysteries left to ponder. I loved hearing your takes on the cyclical nature of the story.
Where can I find this theory?
@@thomaspechey4584 It's a video on TH-cam
@@Darklite38 a skeleton key to twin peaks? the book?
I think Judy is meta Bad Mother
turned this video off when the moustache said the ignorant comment about LOST. How do you expect anyone to think you know how to break down a story when you missed blatant dialog that says the island was real? thumbs down on the video too
you ok bud?
I'm curious. I thought that the "Twin Perfect" video explained all this. Do you guys reject the "Unified Field Theory" or are you unfamiliar with it?
his video is his opinion. it's interesting, but everyone has a theory
@@TakeTheRing Are you deleting my replies? I mean, go ahead if you want to, but I want to make sure that I'm not so inept with computers that I'm failing to leave replies.
@@owenhammer nope, I don't delete comments unless they're super nasty or spam. I sometimes miss comments and not reply, but I hardly ever remove anything. TH-cam has a thing that sometimes holds multiple replies if it thinks it's spam? I'll check that..
@@TakeTheRing Okay, good. I was just posting this link to my essay on "Twin Peaks." I am going to put the link in a second post in case TH-cam is auto-deleting.
nope, on my end it doesn't look like you've commented other than the two I'm seeing here
Love everyone in this except for Dave. His interjections are as boring as they are unfunny.
Face it, atheists: Christianity is objectively true in the Twin Peaks universe. Major Briggs knows about the lodges yet he still maintains his earthly belief in Christianity. Mike said that he "saw the face of God". There was the angel in FWWM. In The Return there was the little boy's soul going up into the sky.
Maybe it's their version of what they see and live because of their Christian background. Maybe other people would see different things based on their faith?
"Face it, atheists: Christianity is true in this fictional story."
Lol, is that a win for you? Does that help affirm your beliefs: that there are some Christian symbolism in a fictional show? ( never mind the fact that there are references to native American folklore, alien conspiracy theories, and even Eastern religions and philosophies as well.) I guess if you're that desperate for affirmation, you'll find it anywhere lol.
as an agnostic: and? we saw Laura as an angel in FWWM. it's not that weird, it's just more relatable symbols that connect deeply with suburban life. did you think this was a gotcha or something? as amazing as I find Lynch, he doesn't dictate the truth of the universe.
@@peachy_lili Sheryll Lee is not the actress who played the angel!
seems like awkward nerds talking & you lost me early on
Judy is the Dreamer.