The ITV drama had nothing to do with our decisions 🤣. After 22years they start jumping around when "coincidentally" the public are outraged at the 💩show that is the PO. Yeah right....🙄
The Horizon system was faulty and that is why these innocent people were send to jail, perhaps the system isn't really fixed because I doubt very much if their was a due dilligence carried out by any independent I T company.
@@williamthomson7820the point is it’s not the horizon system that send these people to jail. It’s the postal office that made the decision to prosecute these people based on knowledge the system was faulty and this was done for the financial benefits it brought for the post office.
If ur work place gets equipment that harms it's employees in any way (including financially) its management responsibility to protect the employees and its the management responsibility to hold the company providing to account , definitely a post office scandal
It’s both. You cannot underplay how terrible the Horizon platform operated/operates (as it’s still in post offices to this day). Fujitsu didn’t deliver the product they said they would so legally they’re also culpable. The public should also know this company has form for delivering software that causes large scale issues related to peoples finances. Back in 2002, Fujitsu also were responsible for faulty ATMs that resulted in 2.5 million delayed debits. Then, in 2020, Fujitsu software supporting the operations of the Tokyo stock exchange failed causing the loss of a full day’s trading. At every turn it appears the Post office acted inappropriately but don’t let Fujitsu off the hook - based on what’s been released/reported they’re allegedly culpable to.
Sunak is using taxpayer's money because it's an election year and he's hoping to gain a few points,that will perhaps give this loony lot another term in office, to finish off our country completely.
Well done to everyone involved in bringing this miscarriage of justice to public attention without which government would still be stealing postmasters money. Heads must roll.
@@factstrumpprejudice6740 I know a Gail, she was an excellent and hard-working lady, very intelligent. They sound the same, but the correct spelling is either "JAIL" or "GAOL", pronounced the same, but different spelling. A bit like "ROOT" and "ROUTE".
Private eye and computer weekly have been publicizing this since 2011. This legal system has let them down badly. Fujitsu and the post office MUST be held to account and gaoled if necessary. Fujitsu and the post office must pay this in full. The legal sustem is letting these people down badly, The barristers, solicitors have made alot of money out of this and it hasn't worked quick enough.
I do wonder if there is an even darker side to come out for this. The P.O.having denied that the issue of lost money had affected others to prevent collective comparison by those affected they forced many into bankruptcy. Was this a deliberate strategy to obtain money and asset from the victims knowing they had little chance to prove their situation as falsely accused without running up huge bills thereby gaining a massive profit collection. I note the legal profession were quick to condem the mass exoneration process and I can only think this was more to do with fee loss than any sense of justice. They would be looking to take any compensation away from the defendants in fees whist proving any innocence . I also note the ministers statement that compensation MIGHT be forthcoming not Will be. Government officials by their very nature find giving anything back as abhorrent and it goes against their whole instinct of grab all that they can while in office which ever the political party. I wish the claimants well but hope they don't rest or be thrown of course by more words and platitudes until that money is in their pockets and a public apology and full exoneration is obtained.
It's less about grabbing as much money , although I certainly don't deny that, they have limits on what they can spend things on when It comes to government spending, this would include reimbursement and compensation, it'd be illegal for then to just give a chunk of money out of no where with no Parliament decision (which unfortunately don't Happen over night )
Very good post. I am with you on this matter. Again we see that "British Management" is an oxymoron. The greedy slime at the top is always on the take. Just look at Motability to see the truth there. Why did the banks oppose joining the Euro? It was absolutely nothing to do with the billions they make on currency exchange rates. And building societies with all their "extra" little charges heaped onto both seller and buyer. British business exists for one reason, so that the bosses maintain their life-styles, their ability to holiday in exclusive and expensive places, and that they can buy a new car every year.
For any of the victims who might be reading. I never believed it from the first brief MSM report on the TV news, when the public didn't know the extent. Also did not know that it would be allowed to continue to affect so many more. That was many years ago. Perhaps going on for two decades. It simply didn't stand to reason. So many even then. I bet the nasty piece of work who spat in the man's face won't think to go and do the same to any of the real culprits. She would know she would be arrested for their sake. Do you think that a former head of the Criminal Cases Review Commission was on TV yesterday, looking very angry indeed. He stated that new legislation should only be enacted when all other avenues have been exhausted and that hasn't happened. He went on to explain that the CRCC and the highest court could have concluded the matter within only a few months. I suspect the misgovernment illegally enacted new legislation (it was illegal as it breached law by previous legislation and traditional law from previous legislations), in order to have control over the amount of compensation paid? Also to have control of any Public Inquiry and the outcome? Of course, I am surmising it could have been referred to the CRCC a long time ago as well as very recently, and for whatever reason wasn't. Of if wasn't, I wonder why not? Who decided it shouldn't be? Apart from this, we all know by now that they the relatives of those in uppermost control (bankers, their royal relatives and politician family members etc) tell their lesser relatives now quite long placed in all MSM (and now much social media) what to allow and not allow their news agencies to be bring to the attention of the public. They only ever allow scandals where their own are culprits are the criminals to be exposed when they have a strong enough reason. Such as to distract from other heinous behaviour they are currently up to. It was on ceefax yesterday that the misgovernment mobsters have "postponed" the Inquiry into the witches brew itself until after the next general election. Of course we know there will be a change of guard again, and who knows if it will then ever be investigated to any extent? Or if it is, then by whom? Also in the news. Sunak and his mobsters are giving Gibraltar to Spain. This will mean that people from Africa will be able to sail through the Strait of Gibraltar, unhindered, because Spain certainly won't stop them on our behalf. Apart from even more illegal migrants, there will be a sharp increase in people trafficking to and fro. Including and perhaps especially of children. I am glad that you and other victims have received some sort of resolution at last, if you are all happy with it. Even if it isn't what it should and could have been through the CCRC. If all victims are content to settle for what has been done in such a hurry after such a very long length of time, then it is for all of you to judge whether you are willing to accept what had been done. I truly hope that you all go on to have far better lives in the future. I do wonder about the loved ones of those who tragically ended their own lives, as well as those who have passed away before this. Not only their legal relatives but anyone they were co-habitating with lung term, especially if they had children or long term but not adopted Stephen children. I suspect they won't have a fair portion awarded as part of the estate of the deceased. Where distraction from other heinous behaviour is concerned, there is too much even recently for me to list. Some of it wouldn't be allowed mention on yt anyway. The fact that MSM are still giving so much time and attention to the matter, now seemingly 'settled', is proof it is being misused to distract the public, Imo. MSM could and should have moved on to cover the "postponement" of the Inquiry into the various toxic darts, Gibraltar and more. They could always have returned to reporting on the Royal Mail/post office scandal over time. I expect MSM will drop coverage like a ton of bricks when there isn't anything immediate that they don't want the public to notice. Remember that they are all at least in the funny handshake club, and are sworn to protect each other right or wrong (even when they do very occasionally sacrifice those of lower degrees). We must always try and discover the track records and usual decisions of those involved, to see if they are likely to be genuinely for truth and justice or if it is more subterfuge. Best wishes for you and yours.
That's nothing. Why do you think they were so brazen about it? Cameron normalised such practices, most of it is built into the system now and essentially legal.
@@wobblybobengland Sure, there appears to have been a gradual erosion in accountability and an increase in corruption regarding economic incentives. Thatcher gov were warned Mad Cow Disease transmissible to humans two years before they began warning people.
You are spot on. I feel that the whole judicial process, especially those who were defending the PO workers, were out of their depth. It seemed to me that due diligence was not exercised here. The sub masters court outcome was decided beforehand. Guilty as charged. Next…..
If it wasn't for the ITV drama, this would still be memory holed. Sunak NEEDS support, this is cheap shot to curry favour with the public. Don't get me wrong, Fujitsu and the PO SHOULD be made to pay millions, LOTS of millions but the damage to those people is unlikely to ever heal and what about the ones that have died and took their own life!!! Where's their compensation.
Fujitsu didn’t tell the government to stop using paper tracking on this stuff too. I am a government contractor in the US and almost all of the work I do digitally needs a scanned hard copy, signed and dated. Fujitsu provided you with software with bugs and errors. ALL software that I’ve worked in in my life has had bugs and errors. This is not a crime. However, no one has ever imprisoned me and garnished my wages as an innocent man. That is a crime. That the post office is not doing internal audits should be a crime unless the auditors are just incompetent. I just can’t see how this is the software company’s fault unless the bug was intentional and you tracked the missing money being funneled to that company or an individual associated with them.
This mass exoneration is a step in the right direction but could be an attempt to brush this under the carpet, and allow those truly responsible for this injustice (Post office management and Fujitsu) to slip away. Postmasters are still massively under-compensated, they need to have their money the post office stole from them, returned with interest. Postmasters need to be compensated for the; years of wages lost, mental health issues, public shaming, family disputes, bankruptcy, legal fees….the list goes on. This should be funded by those responsible, not the tax payers.
I believe this is one of the avenues the Police are pursuing, that the Post Office committed fraud on a massive scale by taking moneys from Post Masters. After the first few cases it would have become apparent to anyone working at the Post office that there was potentially an issue with Horizon. Instead they took blind faith in what Fujitsu told them about the integrity of the system through out this massive and historic miss carriage of justice. I do not believe for one moment that the Post Office investigation team were not seeing a pattern emerging, but ignored that in their blood lust to convict Post Masters in a whole sale fashion.
Shame it took a looming GE before the Tories started to pretend to care. None of this is news to Sunak. The Tories knew all of what was shown in the tv series. They simply felt forced to take action now because it has become widely discussed amongst the general public, and they are worried about what it will do to their party rating up until May 2024. Sunak and his party still don't care about all those who've had their lives torn apart!
Only those that have been through the system will know just how much of an impact it has not just on the defendant but families. It damages families and causes financial and emotional turmoil. I truly hope the victims get sufficient compensation for their loss.
Divide 600k by 20 years = 30k peanuts for a year. These postmasters lost a whole lot more than that. And the govt should pay lawyers separately otherwise greedy lawyers will take a huge cut from compensation.
That’s including a criminal record. No job prospects…… discraced by your community and public. Lost marriages and family distanced……Jailed and mentally tortured…….no money can make these poor people happy…..money cant buy what they went through 😢. Pure cover up and corruption
Now for a law that will force CEOs of any company that wilfully engage in this kind of conduct to stripped of every asset they own and that of their families. Every penny from their bank accounts to seized and used to pay those who have been impacted by their actions, as well as senior management
It has been proven that many convictions were unsound because mitigating evidence was withheld from the courts by the PO so it is perfectly within the law to quash these convictions and exonerate the injured parties and to compensation by the state as the PO was owned by the state. The representatives of the PO who misrepresented the facts should now have their day in court and all those involved should be held personally responsible and fined along with the private company Fujitsu who lacked corporate governance with regards to their upper management.
But can you imagine the defendants would use a "Nuremberg" defence style and claim they were only following Post office orders & procedures. Just like the testimony from that Post Office investigations thug yesterday......
I'm glad they are finally getting justice. If a little on the late side. How many new jobs have these poor people not been offered because the application forms asks "Do you have a criminal conviction" and they must legally answer "yes". Those applications will immediately be filed in the bin. They shouldn't be, but you KNOW they are. I have a friend that was found guilty of a crime he simply and demonstratively DID NOT DO. In fact the real perpetrator was found, confessed and convicted of the crime before my friend's case even reached the court. Not only did he spend time in prison, he was then unable to get a job for 5 years as he always had to answer yes on application forms that asked if you had a criminal conviction. It was only when one form did not ask, that he finally got an interview and then got the job. The justice system needs a complete overhaul. Here-say and opinion should NEVER carry more weight in evidence than actual verifiable proof.
For any of the victims who might be reading. I never believed it from the first brief MSM report on the TV news, when the public didn't know the extent. Also did not know that it would be allowed to continue to affect so many more. That was many years ago. Perhaps going on for two decades. It simply didn't stand to reason. So many even then. I bet the nasty piece of work who spat in the man's face won't think to go and do the same to any of the real culprits. She would know she would be arrested for their sake. Do you think that a former head of the Criminal Cases Review Commission was on TV yesterday, looking very angry indeed. He stated that new legislation should only be enacted when all other avenues have been exhausted and that hasn't happened. He went on to explain that the CRCC and the highest court could have concluded the matter within only a few months. I suspect the misgovernment illegally enacted new legislation (it was illegal as it breached law by previous legislation and traditional law from previous legislations), in order to have control over the amount of compensation paid? Also to have control of any Public Inquiry and the outcome? Of course, I am surmising it could have been referred to the CRCC a long time ago as well as very recently, and for whatever reason wasn't. Of if wasn't, I wonder why not? Who decided it shouldn't be? Apart from this, we all know by now that they the relatives of those in uppermost control (bankers, their royal relatives and politician family members etc) tell their lesser relatives now quite long placed in all MSM (and now much social media) what to allow and not allow their news agencies to be bring to the attention of the public. They only ever allow scandals where their own are culprits are the criminals to be exposed when they have a strong enough reason. Such as to distract from other heinous behaviour they are currently up to. It was on ceefax yesterday that the misgovernment mobsters have "postponed" the Inquiry into the witches brew itself until after the next general election. Of course we know there will be a change of guard again, and who knows if it will then ever be investigated to any extent? Or if it is, then by whom? Also in the news. Sunak and his mobsters are giving Gibraltar to Spain. This will mean that people from Africa will be able to sail through the Strait of Gibraltar, unhindered, because Spain certainly won't stop them on our behalf. Apart from even more illegal migrants, there will be a sharp increase in people trafficking to and fro. Including and perhaps especially of children. I am glad that you and other victims have received some sort of resolution at last, if you are all happy with it. Even if it isn't what it should and could have been through the CCRC. If all victims are content to settle for what has been done in such a hurry after such a very long length of time, then it is for all of you to judge whether you are willing to accept what had been done. I truly hope that you all go on to have far better lives in the future. I do wonder about the loved ones of those who tragically ended their own lives, as well as those who have passed away before this. Not only their legal relatives but anyone they were co-habitating with lung term, especially if they had children or long term but not adopted Stephen children. I suspect they won't have a fair portion awarded as part of the estate of the deceased. Where distraction from other heinous behaviour is concerned, there is too much even recently for me to list. Some of it wouldn't be allowed mention on yt anyway. The fact that MSM are still giving so much time and attention to the matter, now seemingly 'settled', is proof it is being misused to distract the public, Imo. MSM could and should have moved on to cover the "postponement" of the Inquiry into the various toxic darts, Gibraltar and more. They could always have returned to reporting on the Royal Mail/post office scandal over time. I expect MSM will drop coverage like a ton of bricks when there isn't anything immediate that they don't want the public to notice. Remember that they are all at least in the funny handshake club, and are sworn to protect each other right or wrong (even when they do very occasionally sacrifice those of lower degrees). We must always try and discover the track records and usual decisions of those involved, to see if they are likely to be genuinely for truth and justice or if it is more subterfuge. Best wishes for you and yours.
It is so incredibly moving, as we acknowledge, that this did not just affect the Post Master, it affected their families, friends, villages...characters were assassinated, unjustly accused, incompetent Investigators...it just beggars belief, to me, still, that any Investigator, being aware of how many Post Masters were experiencing this, did not think, within FIVE minutes, " this is a computer, IT glitch "...how imbecilic have we become??? When did we lose faith in our own so quickly? God and Angels moved by this....I'm NY Toms very British/Brazilian future wife MD, Veteran, Middle East & Cont. of Africa, NY America/England....
It's wrong that the drama had to raise this to the UK ! Why were people not shouting from the rooftops ? I never heard anything about this ? I would have been putting posters up in every town in the uk if they had convicted me or tried to. I would spend my days sending letters to everybody in the UK . I can't believe 600 were that silent apart from a couple
What's happening about prosecuting the perpetrators ? Why has nothing been done before if it's so urgent ? How significant is Fujitsu's contributions to the Tory party in delaying it ? How is this halfhearted action now related to the upcoming election ?
There is nothing wrong with Parliament interfering with the judicial process because this case is unique; the greatest miscarriage of justice in Britain's history. All those naysayers really need to get a grip.
Agree, I think there's one key thing we should make happen and Fujitsu having to pay towards the compo. As an ex civil servant most of the IT contractors were terrible and gave low effort once the foot was in the door. I recall 2 million being spent with IBM on scoping that went nowhere... Procurment longer term will need real management
“Greatest miscarriage of Justice in Britain’s history!” Americans: The Royal Navy shot Crispus Attucks and 7 other Americans cause they didn’t want to send money to a guy who had never even visited our continent. I love British people and culture, but your government can suck a fat one
If the information on the Horizon system cannot be relied upon as evidence in Court then ALL convictions MUST be quashed because there is reasonable doubt that the offences happened. It is simple. Innocent until proven guilty and it turns out the "evidence" against them was not in fact evidence that can be relied upon. Simple
@@realjprc I understand why you come to that conclusion. And, NOW, that the wider public is understanding this EXTREME MISCARRIAGE of "JUSTICE", Rab is saying he wants to get his GOOD NAME back. I agree with you, he seems like a genuine (NICE) person.
@nannieg7622 I was not saying they are not all genuine . My comment on one man does not take anything away from anyone else. Rab caught my attention because I spent a decade in Scotland, that’s all. Following this from Canada
How come these politicians and elites just get to pay there way out of going jail. Everyone involved with this scandal should face prosecution there is people in jail right now for doing less.
After so many judges got it wrong in convicting these innocent people, how can anyone trust the same judicial system to fix this mess? Also, £600,000 seems far too little in compensation. Some of these people lost £300,000 or more of their own money. Putting £300,000 paid in 2003 into an inflation calculator gives an amount of £525,139.20 in 2023. That £600,000 barely covers the actual loss without much in compensation for all the pain and suffering the post office, Fujitsu, and the courts caused these people.
You will need to keep an eye on this as it drops out of the headlines. The usual policy is to delay payment until everybody is dead as with contaminated blood.
The judicial system especially the judges are complicit. They are a disgrace. It should not be necessary for a new law! Every judge involved should be charged without pay to put aside every case where Horizon was used as evidence. This without any involvement by the victims. The idea that the victims have to apply is just compounding the injustice. After the judges are done. Fire them!
@@Jon-xw9om I don't expect her to be put in the dock. After all, this is the corrupt and unaccountable UK, where you may find such people in the pulpit or in parliament, but never in the dock.😁 By the way, Johnson, Paterson, Hancock, Mone, Cameron, Bridgen, or "Michael Green" ... Do you still remember any of them?
Right, right, and what about compensation? Loss of earnings, loss of homes, loss of marriages, loss of liberty, what of those made widows and widowers by this? Everyone effected by this incident is owed far, FAR more than the 75k I have heard bandied about. If the offer goes up past the 1.5million per victim mark, we'll be far, far closer to the mark, but probably not AT it.
How boring life is getting when post office gets a scandal. Those people should pay for false accusations and dismissal naturally. Instead of looking into an incompetent computer, check those out first
And who was the Director of Public Prosecution while this debacle was going on? Oh, that would be Sir Kier Starmer, the Prime Minister in waiting. Blair's Britain in all its grotesque glory... 😅
i was falsely accused and found guilty of something I didn't do and I have to raise £500,000 to bring those who were responsible to trial so The prosecution in my case had evidence in its posession clear me of the most serious charges and there was case law to nullify the others- that said they are easily refuted. However I am very pleased some people got justice. I would do anything for some kind of justice.
1 of the questions asked in the program is where did the money go? ... If the Post office told the sub-postperson they owed £30k which many paid that means the Post Office received £60k which must have shown up in their accounts
@@johnherbert7489 Its totally beyond me also why the Post Office and the people running it then have not been charged with corporate manslaughter for the people who committed suicide over this
Will victims be recompensed for personal money they used to make up unexplainable shortfalls, will those who died be compensated to their families and will the government cover all legal expenses of these people? My understanding is almost all have crushing legal fees not covered by any of these compensations AND they are being forced to sign documents stating they are being truthful which is a smack on top of all they have been through. Horizon and the executives need to be brought to justice equivalent to the suffering these postal workers were put through!
Basically take £75,000 now or if you seek more than you will have to wait longer, so the Minister is telling them to take the £75,000 and dont look for more. We are talking 25-years and many have lost everything, so what an MP earns a year is what the government are offering.
Meanwhile the top guy at the post office earned over £800000 in bonuses,the whole thing is a disgrace
This is the direct result of the Tory obsession with privatisation.
Should be returned.😊
It’s the full payment tax free
It's not the Horizon scandal, it's a Post Office scandal, call it what it is!
The ITV drama had nothing to do with our decisions 🤣. After 22years they start jumping around when "coincidentally" the public are outraged at the 💩show that is the PO. Yeah right....🙄
The Horizon system was faulty and that is why these innocent people were send to jail, perhaps the system isn't really fixed because I doubt very much if their was a due dilligence carried out by any independent I T company.
@@williamthomson7820the point is it’s not the horizon system that send these people to jail. It’s the postal office that made the decision to prosecute these people based on knowledge the system was faulty and this was done for the financial benefits it brought for the post office.
If ur work place gets equipment that harms it's employees in any way (including financially) its management responsibility to protect the employees and its the management responsibility to hold the company providing to account , definitely a post office scandal
It’s both. You cannot underplay how terrible the Horizon platform operated/operates (as it’s still in post offices to this day). Fujitsu didn’t deliver the product they said they would so legally they’re also culpable. The public should also know this company has form for delivering software that causes large scale issues related to peoples finances.
Back in 2002, Fujitsu also were responsible for faulty ATMs that resulted in 2.5 million delayed debits. Then, in 2020, Fujitsu software supporting the operations of the Tokyo stock exchange failed causing the loss of a full day’s trading. At every turn it appears the Post office acted inappropriately but don’t let Fujitsu off the hook - based on what’s been released/reported they’re allegedly culpable to.
The compensation that is to be paid out will be tax payers money. It should be taken from the bosses bonuses and salaries.
Without the itv docu drama and that its an election year nothing would have been done about this terrible scandal
The whole Judiciary responsible for the unlawful convictions should be investigated.
Rotherham.
neuberger@@truckerfromreno
Look who was the Director of Public Crown Prosecution, Keir Stammer so he should resign!
Sunak is using taxpayer's money to compensate and will ensure no ministers, postal directors or Fujitsu directors are fined or stand trial
Sunak is using taxpayer's money because it's an election year and he's hoping to gain a few points,that will perhaps give this loony lot another term in office, to finish off our country completely.
they love spending our money
It's not all bad. Bloke down the pub was a sub postmaster but his Horizon machine wen't into plus, he retired to Brazil aged 46.
No, we mustn't let it happen
What about the money stolen from these people?
They can whistle for it.
😂@@kurtgodel5236
Theft
Well done to everyone involved in bringing this miscarriage of justice to public attention without which government would still be stealing postmasters money. Heads must roll.
You mean that not one responsible functionary will go to Gail, who'd have thought?
Sunak was chancellor during all of this overseeing the contract(s) with fuijie
@@factstrumpprejudice6740 you never know - early days.
@@factstrumpprejudice6740 I know a Gail, she was an excellent and hard-working lady, very intelligent. They sound the same, but the correct spelling is either "JAIL" or "GAOL", pronounced the same, but different spelling. A bit like "ROOT" and "ROUTE".
BASTARDS AND SYMPTOMATIC OF A ROTTEN GPO CULTURE THAT EXISTS TODAY IN ALL EX GPO ORGANISATIONS.
Private eye and computer weekly have been publicizing this since 2011. This legal system has let them down badly. Fujitsu and the post office MUST be held to account and gaoled if necessary. Fujitsu and the post office must pay this in full.
The legal sustem is letting these people down badly, The barristers, solicitors have made alot of money out of this and it hasn't worked quick enough.
I do wonder if there is an even darker side to come out for this. The P.O.having denied that the issue of lost money had affected others to prevent collective comparison by those affected they forced many into bankruptcy. Was this a deliberate strategy to obtain money and asset from the victims knowing they had little chance to prove their situation as falsely accused without running up huge bills thereby gaining a massive profit collection. I note the legal profession were quick to condem the mass exoneration process and I can only think this was more to do with fee loss than any sense of justice. They would be looking to take any compensation away from the defendants in fees whist proving any innocence . I also note the ministers statement that compensation MIGHT be forthcoming not Will be. Government officials by their very nature find giving anything back as abhorrent and it goes against their whole instinct of grab all that they can while in office which ever the political party. I wish the claimants well but hope they don't rest or be thrown of course by more words and platitudes until that money is in their pockets and a public apology and full exoneration is obtained.
It's less about grabbing as much money , although I certainly don't deny that, they have limits on what they can spend things on when It comes to government spending, this would include reimbursement and compensation, it'd be illegal for then to just give a chunk of money out of no where with no Parliament decision (which unfortunately don't Happen over night )
@@cryptouk7985naive you😂😂gov do that all the time
Private prosecutions will bring them the recompense and these should be costs paid by the government. You don't need a new law for fraud ...
Very good post. I am with you on this matter. Again we see that "British Management" is an oxymoron. The greedy slime at the top is always on the take. Just look at Motability to see the truth there. Why did the banks oppose joining the Euro? It was absolutely nothing to do with the billions they make on currency exchange rates. And building societies with all their "extra" little charges heaped onto both seller and buyer. British business exists for one reason, so that the bosses maintain their life-styles, their ability to holiday in exclusive and expensive places, and that they can buy a new car every year.
For any of the victims who might be reading.
I never believed it from the first brief MSM report on the TV news, when the public didn't know the extent. Also did not know that it would be allowed to continue to affect so many more. That was many years ago. Perhaps going on for two decades. It simply didn't stand to reason. So many even then.
I bet the nasty piece of work who spat in the man's face won't think to go and do the same to any of the real culprits. She would know she would be arrested for their sake.
Do you think that a former head of the Criminal Cases Review Commission was on TV yesterday, looking very angry indeed. He stated that new legislation should only be enacted when all other avenues have been exhausted and that hasn't happened. He went on to explain that the CRCC and the highest court could have concluded the matter within only a few months.
I suspect the misgovernment illegally enacted new legislation (it was illegal as it breached law by previous legislation and traditional law from previous legislations), in order to have control over the amount of compensation paid? Also to have control of any Public Inquiry and the outcome?
Of course, I am surmising it could have been referred to the CRCC a long time ago as well as very recently, and for whatever reason wasn't. Of if wasn't, I wonder why not? Who decided it shouldn't be?
Apart from this, we all know by now that they the relatives of those in uppermost control (bankers, their royal relatives and politician family members etc) tell their lesser relatives now quite long placed in all MSM (and now much social media) what to allow and not allow their news agencies to be bring to the attention of the public. They only ever allow scandals where their own are culprits are the criminals to be exposed when they have a strong enough reason. Such as to distract from other heinous behaviour they are currently up to.
It was on ceefax yesterday that the misgovernment mobsters have "postponed" the Inquiry into the witches brew itself until after the next general election. Of course we know there will be a change of guard again, and who knows if it will then ever be investigated to any extent? Or if it is, then by whom?
Also in the news. Sunak and his mobsters are giving Gibraltar to Spain. This will mean that people from Africa will be able to sail through the Strait of Gibraltar, unhindered, because Spain certainly won't stop them on our behalf. Apart from even more illegal migrants, there will be a sharp increase in people trafficking to and fro. Including and perhaps especially of children.
I am glad that you and other victims have received some sort of resolution at last, if you are all happy with it. Even if it isn't what it should and could have been through the CCRC. If all victims are content to settle for what has been done in such a hurry after such a very long length of time, then it is for all of you to judge whether you are willing to accept what had been done. I truly hope that you all go on to have far better lives in the future.
I do wonder about the loved ones of those who tragically ended their own lives, as well as those who have passed away before this. Not only their legal relatives but anyone they were co-habitating with lung term, especially if they had children or long term but not adopted Stephen children. I suspect they won't have a fair portion awarded as part of the estate of the deceased.
Where distraction from other heinous behaviour is concerned, there is too much even recently for me to list. Some of it wouldn't be allowed mention on yt anyway.
The fact that MSM are still giving so much time and attention to the matter, now seemingly 'settled', is proof it is being misused to distract the public, Imo. MSM could and should have moved on to cover the "postponement" of the Inquiry into the various toxic darts, Gibraltar and more. They could always have returned to reporting on the Royal Mail/post office scandal over time. I expect MSM will drop coverage like a ton of bricks when there isn't anything immediate that they don't want the public to notice.
Remember that they are all at least in the funny handshake club, and are sworn to protect each other right or wrong (even when they do very occasionally sacrifice those of lower degrees).
We must always try and discover the track records and usual decisions of those involved, to see if they are likely to be genuinely for truth and justice or if it is more subterfuge.
Best wishes for you and yours.
The TV needs to highlight MORE corporate discrepancies, maybe starting with the covid PPS contract
one
That's nothing. Why do you think they were so brazen about it?
Cameron normalised such practices, most of it is built into the system now and essentially legal.
@@mrstephenpariah World in Action stopped under Blair
@@wobblybobengland Sure, there appears to have been a gradual erosion in accountability and an increase in corruption regarding economic incentives.
Thatcher gov were warned Mad Cow Disease transmissible to humans two years before they began warning people.
Isn’t the police national database run by Fujitsu…the same company which ran Horizon? That’s reassuring.
irrelevant really , all tech (owners &users too) is suspect
You are spot on. I feel that the whole judicial process, especially those who were defending the PO workers, were out of their depth. It seemed to me that due diligence was not exercised here. The sub masters court outcome was decided beforehand. Guilty as charged. Next…..
The very government which gave her a OBE and a place on the board on the NHS.
and a job in the cabinet office !!!!!!!!!
200+ people suddenly stealing and nobody sees it as odd ??
If it wasn't for the ITV drama, this would still be memory holed. Sunak NEEDS support, this is cheap shot to curry favour with the public. Don't get me wrong, Fujitsu and the PO SHOULD be made to pay millions, LOTS of millions but the damage to those people is unlikely to ever heal and what about the ones that have died and took their own life!!! Where's their compensation.
Not true. Has been widely known about and discussed for years. Do a TH-cam search.
Sigh. It isn't me that needs to do research...@@mrstephenpariah
I don't need to search anything. My mother was using this system whilst you were still swimming around in the milk-mans nutsack.@@mrstephenpariah
So when is Fujitsu going to be fined for providing a system not fit for purpose, how much compensation are they going to pay into the fund?
Fujitsu didn’t tell the government to stop using paper tracking on this stuff too. I am a government contractor in the US and almost all of the work I do digitally needs a scanned hard copy, signed and dated.
Fujitsu provided you with software with bugs and errors. ALL software that I’ve worked in in my life has had bugs and errors. This is not a crime. However, no one has ever imprisoned me and garnished my wages as an innocent man. That is a crime.
That the post office is not doing internal audits should be a crime unless the auditors are just incompetent. I just can’t see how this is the software company’s fault unless the bug was intentional and you tracked the missing money being funneled to that company or an individual associated with them.
This mass exoneration is a step in the right direction but could be an attempt to brush this under the carpet, and allow those truly responsible for this injustice (Post office management and Fujitsu) to slip away.
Postmasters are still massively under-compensated, they need to have their money the post office stole from them, returned with interest. Postmasters need to be compensated for the; years of wages lost, mental health issues, public shaming, family disputes, bankruptcy, legal fees….the list goes on. This should be funded by those responsible, not the tax payers.
I believe this is one of the avenues the Police are pursuing, that the Post Office committed fraud on a massive scale by taking moneys from Post Masters. After the first few cases it would have become apparent to anyone working at the Post office that there was potentially an issue with Horizon. Instead they took blind faith in what Fujitsu told them about the integrity of the system through out this massive and historic miss carriage of justice. I do not believe for one moment that the Post Office investigation team were not seeing a pattern emerging, but ignored that in their blood lust to convict Post Masters in a whole sale fashion.
BINGO !!
Shame it took a looming GE before the Tories started to pretend to care. None of this is news to Sunak. The Tories knew all of what was shown in the tv series. They simply felt forced to take action now because it has become widely discussed amongst the general public, and they are worried about what it will do to their party rating up until May 2024. Sunak and his party still don't care about all those who've had their lives torn apart!
Now send the real culprits who organised this for embezzlement to jail, and for a very long time.
Only those that have been through the system will know just how much of an impact it has not just on the defendant but families. It damages families and causes financial and emotional turmoil. I truly hope the victims get sufficient compensation for their loss.
Losses! Not loss! Every victim had massive losses in every aspect of their lives. And the fascists at the PO knew exactly what they were doing.
I hope they compensate them better than Guilford 4 and Birmingham 6.
But they will penny pinch.
Divide 600k by 20 years = 30k peanuts for a year. These postmasters lost a whole lot more than that. And the govt should pay lawyers separately otherwise greedy lawyers will take a huge cut from compensation.
That’s including a criminal record. No job prospects…… discraced by your community and public. Lost marriages and family distanced……Jailed and mentally tortured…….no money can make these poor people happy…..money cant buy what they went through 😢. Pure cover up and corruption
End of the year? They should do it next week without dragging their feet that long. Compensation should be in millions, not 600k and 75k.
Sunak and the Tories knew what was going on and did nothing.
Now for a law that will force CEOs of any company that wilfully engage in this kind of conduct to stripped of every asset they own and that of their families. Every penny from their bank accounts to seized and used to pay those who have been impacted by their actions, as well as senior management
Britain: The country that fixes national scandals via TV shows.
LAUGH OUT LOUD sorry not abbreiviated
It has been proven that many convictions were unsound because mitigating evidence was withheld from the courts by the PO so it is perfectly within the law to quash these convictions and exonerate the injured parties and to compensation by the state as the PO was owned by the state.
The representatives of the PO who misrepresented the facts should now have their day in court and all those involved should be held personally responsible and fined along with the private company Fujitsu who lacked corporate governance with regards to their upper management.
But can you imagine the defendants would use a "Nuremberg" defence style and claim they were only following Post office orders & procedures. Just like the testimony from that Post Office investigations thug yesterday......
Any news on sending Paula to prison..
How about a blanket prison sentence for those who willingly pursued those who were right all along.
£75k if you went to court? Why the difference? Surely if you went to court you paid twice (legal fees on top).
And extra stress.
Just because those at the top are used to lying and stealing they thought the peasants would also
20 years to come to light. Or in this country, express delivery ( if you'll pardon the pun ).
I'm glad they are finally getting justice. If a little on the late side.
How many new jobs have these poor people not been offered because the application forms asks "Do you have a criminal conviction" and they must legally answer "yes". Those applications will immediately be filed in the bin. They shouldn't be, but you KNOW they are.
I have a friend that was found guilty of a crime he simply and demonstratively DID NOT DO. In fact the real perpetrator was found, confessed and convicted of the crime before my friend's case even reached the court. Not only did he spend time in prison, he was then unable to get a job for 5 years as he always had to answer yes on application forms that asked if you had a criminal conviction. It was only when one form did not ask, that he finally got an interview and then got the job.
The justice system needs a complete overhaul. Here-say and opinion should NEVER carry more weight in evidence than actual verifiable proof.
900 postmasters ?! how come no one questioned that number to be too high to be cheating
Does this mean the new law will allow parliament to overturn all convictions and decisions made by the court or just in this instance and incident?
Who cares? Separation of powers is against the will of the people. So is ECHR membership. Neither has a place in Brexit Britain.
As I understand it: Just in this instance. Convictions specifically related to this piece of software.
@@kurtgodel5236 You don't care because you don't give a damn about the victims of Tory government mismanagement.
For any of the victims who might be reading.
I never believed it from the first brief MSM report on the TV news, when the public didn't know the extent. Also did not know that it would be allowed to continue to affect so many more. That was many years ago. Perhaps going on for two decades. It simply didn't stand to reason. So many even then.
I bet the nasty piece of work who spat in the man's face won't think to go and do the same to any of the real culprits. She would know she would be arrested for their sake.
Do you think that a former head of the Criminal Cases Review Commission was on TV yesterday, looking very angry indeed. He stated that new legislation should only be enacted when all other avenues have been exhausted and that hasn't happened. He went on to explain that the CRCC and the highest court could have concluded the matter within only a few months.
I suspect the misgovernment illegally enacted new legislation (it was illegal as it breached law by previous legislation and traditional law from previous legislations), in order to have control over the amount of compensation paid? Also to have control of any Public Inquiry and the outcome?
Of course, I am surmising it could have been referred to the CRCC a long time ago as well as very recently, and for whatever reason wasn't. Of if wasn't, I wonder why not? Who decided it shouldn't be?
Apart from this, we all know by now that they the relatives of those in uppermost control (bankers, their royal relatives and politician family members etc) tell their lesser relatives now quite long placed in all MSM (and now much social media) what to allow and not allow their news agencies to be bring to the attention of the public. They only ever allow scandals where their own are culprits are the criminals to be exposed when they have a strong enough reason. Such as to distract from other heinous behaviour they are currently up to.
It was on ceefax yesterday that the misgovernment mobsters have "postponed" the Inquiry into the witches brew itself until after the next general election. Of course we know there will be a change of guard again, and who knows if it will then ever be investigated to any extent? Or if it is, then by whom?
Also in the news. Sunak and his mobsters are giving Gibraltar to Spain. This will mean that people from Africa will be able to sail through the Strait of Gibraltar, unhindered, because Spain certainly won't stop them on our behalf. Apart from even more illegal migrants, there will be a sharp increase in people trafficking to and fro. Including and perhaps especially of children.
I am glad that you and other victims have received some sort of resolution at last, if you are all happy with it. Even if it isn't what it should and could have been through the CCRC. If all victims are content to settle for what has been done in such a hurry after such a very long length of time, then it is for all of you to judge whether you are willing to accept what had been done. I truly hope that you all go on to have far better lives in the future.
I do wonder about the loved ones of those who tragically ended their own lives, as well as those who have passed away before this. Not only their legal relatives but anyone they were co-habitating with lung term, especially if they had children or long term but not adopted Stephen children. I suspect they won't have a fair portion awarded as part of the estate of the deceased.
Where distraction from other heinous behaviour is concerned, there is too much even recently for me to list. Some of it wouldn't be allowed mention on yt anyway.
The fact that MSM are still giving so much time and attention to the matter, now seemingly 'settled', is proof it is being misused to distract the public, Imo. MSM could and should have moved on to cover the "postponement" of the Inquiry into the various toxic darts, Gibraltar and more. They could always have returned to reporting on the Royal Mail/post office scandal over time. I expect MSM will drop coverage like a ton of bricks when there isn't anything immediate that they don't want the public to notice.
Remember that they are all at least in the funny handshake club, and are sworn to protect each other right or wrong (even when they do very occasionally sacrifice those of lower degrees).
We must always try and discover the track records and usual decisions of those involved, to see if they are likely to be genuinely for truth and justice or if it is more subterfuge.
Best wishes for you and yours.
Since when was a pardon the same as overturning wrongful convictions? Or false confessions under extreme duress and with lies told to the victims?
It is so incredibly moving, as we acknowledge, that this did not just affect the Post Master, it affected their families, friends, villages...characters were assassinated, unjustly accused, incompetent Investigators...it just beggars belief, to me, still, that any Investigator, being aware of how many Post Masters were experiencing this, did not think, within FIVE minutes, " this is a computer, IT glitch "...how imbecilic have we become??? When did we lose faith in our own so quickly? God and Angels moved by this....I'm NY Toms very British/Brazilian future wife MD, Veteran, Middle East & Cont. of Africa, NY America/England....
It's wrong that the drama had to raise this to the UK ! Why were people not shouting from the rooftops ? I never heard anything about this ? I would have been putting posters up in every town in the uk if they had convicted me or tried to. I would spend my days sending letters to everybody in the UK . I can't believe 600 were that silent apart from a couple
Think you’ve answered your own question there. The drama raised the profile of the scandal. It was well documented in the press for years
How much of this swift action is due to a looming General Election, albeit triggered by the recent TV drama?
WHERE is the RETURN of THEIR MONEY?!!
What's happening about prosecuting the perpetrators ?
Why has nothing been done before if it's so urgent ?
How significant is Fujitsu's contributions to the Tory party in delaying it ?
How is this halfhearted action now related to the upcoming election ?
There is nothing wrong with Parliament interfering with the judicial process because this case is unique; the greatest miscarriage of justice in Britain's history. All those naysayers really need to get a grip.
Proof that they just make up what they want when they want - There is no such thing as 'justice'.
Agree, I think there's one key thing we should make happen and Fujitsu having to pay towards the compo. As an ex civil servant most of the IT contractors were terrible and gave low effort once the foot was in the door. I recall 2 million being spent with IBM on scoping that went nowhere... Procurment longer term will need real management
Unique cases make bad law. Didn't you know?
“Greatest miscarriage of Justice in Britain’s history!”
Americans: The Royal Navy shot Crispus Attucks and 7 other Americans cause they didn’t want to send money to a guy who had never even visited our continent.
I love British people and culture, but your government can suck a fat one
£600k for ruining a person's life. Seems awfully low.
I love the way Sunak pretends it is a new issue he never knew about !
If the information on the Horizon system cannot be relied upon as evidence in Court then ALL convictions MUST be quashed because there is reasonable doubt that the offences happened. It is simple. Innocent until proven guilty and it turns out the "evidence" against them was not in fact evidence that can be relied upon. Simple
this is so sad a miscarriage of Justice . Totally unacceptable.
"Yes, we knew your lives were being ruined and we did f-all about it, so here's 3 year's wages, now shut up and go away" "Btw, please vote for us."
I feel terrible for the Scottish guy, he seems like such a genuine guy 😢
Rab, his name is Rab.
@@julierogers1155 honestly from watching I don’t think he wants people to know his name!
@@realjprc I understand why you come to that conclusion. And, NOW, that the wider public is understanding this EXTREME MISCARRIAGE of "JUSTICE", Rab is saying he wants to get his GOOD NAME back. I agree with you, he seems like a genuine (NICE) person.
@nannieg7622 I was not saying they are not all genuine . My comment on one man does not take anything away from anyone else.
Rab caught my attention because I spent a decade in Scotland, that’s all.
Following this from Canada
and how many years will the full assessment option take, 5 or 6 years?
who recommended her for a CBE?
Dominic Grieve should explain what he did to look into this terrible scandal ,sick of commentators that do nothing
About time , now about those wrongfully accused / prosecuted subpostmasters who committed suicide. Justice is nowhere near done.
Still trying to figure out why Sunak is allowed to be PM. It's a disgrace.
Can we have a ITV drama on how the tories wasted £12b on bad PPE so we can put them in jail too?
Why does it need a new law?
How come these politicians and elites just get to pay there way out of going jail. Everyone involved with this scandal should face prosecution there is people in jail right now for doing less.
Thanks to who ? Andrew Bridgen !
How dare they say I have no way of saying if they are actually innocent so still they will have it hanging.
We've been looking at... Yea! Right ... Nearly 25 years.... 🤔🤔
What about those who lost their lives due to embarrassment and shame??
remember the legal system messed up as well, they can bang on about independance , but they played a part in this
and yet again those with the establishment behind them AVOID JAIL ....FFS
Thank you privatizations
the compensation "offered" is pitiful
Why is the government offering such small financial compensation. It seems awfully pathetic amount...if you have been in jail for two decades.
Obviously the Scottish first Minister Hamza Yousef has not roused himself till now ,so we will see if he does now
And Snackers calls the scandal the "Horizon" scandal, NOT the "Post Office" scandal. Subtle, very subtle...
After so many judges got it wrong in convicting these innocent people, how can anyone trust the same judicial system to fix this mess? Also, £600,000 seems far too little in compensation. Some of these people lost £300,000 or more of their own money. Putting £300,000 paid in 2003 into an inflation calculator gives an amount of £525,139.20 in 2023. That £600,000 barely covers the actual loss without much in compensation for all the pain and suffering the post office, Fujitsu, and the courts caused these people.
You will need to keep an eye on this as it drops out of the headlines. The usual policy is to delay payment until everybody is dead as with contaminated blood.
What about “Sir” Davey? Shouldn’t he be forced to hand back his honour
The scandal of the 1950’s pensioners need this kind of investigation
The judicial system especially the judges are complicit. They are a disgrace. It should not be necessary for a new law! Every judge involved should be charged without pay to put aside every case where Horizon was used as evidence. This without any involvement by the victims. The idea that the victims have to apply is just compounding the injustice. After the judges are done. Fire them!
Wow it only took innocent working people to comment suicide and 20 years to sort this mess out. Disgraceful just disgraceful
Why couldn’t PM strip Sussex titles this fast?
ITV did it - not Channel 4 or the MPs.
Just get Charlie Rex, to sign the pardon, the exoneration and the apology letters now. It's a mornings work. No need to pass a law.
"A few guilty people" already have "benefitted".
The post office and the I.T.company.
Yup. The eugenicists and elitists stealing all the money. Quite the benefit.
Guilty until proven innocent, eh?
@@kurtgodel5236 I look forward to her presenting her case in court.😁
@@Jon-xw9om I don't expect her to be put in the dock. After all, this is the corrupt and unaccountable UK, where you may find such people in the pulpit or in parliament, but never in the dock.😁
By the way, Johnson, Paterson, Hancock, Mone, Cameron, Bridgen, or "Michael Green" ... Do you still remember any of them?
Right, right, and what about compensation? Loss of earnings, loss of homes, loss of marriages, loss of liberty, what of those made widows and widowers by this? Everyone effected by this incident is owed far, FAR more than the 75k I have heard bandied about. If the offer goes up past the 1.5million per victim mark, we'll be far, far closer to the mark, but probably not AT it.
(it took a drama on tv) disgraceful that it took this long
Sunak and Davey are hopeless. Should be sacked
Post office must be stripped of powers to prosecute.
How boring life is getting when post office gets a scandal. Those people should pay for false accusations and dismissal naturally. Instead of looking into an incompetent computer, check those out first
I don't care how rich those on top of the Post Office are, they all need to go to jail.
What !
And who was the Director of Public Prosecution while this debacle was going on? Oh, that would be Sir Kier Starmer, the Prime Minister in waiting. Blair's Britain in all its grotesque glory... 😅
Parliament needed to intervene. The courts convicted innocent subpostmasters
big freaking difference between the expense scandal and what was done to these innocent people
Why spend taxpayers money going through the courts when the evidence is there to see!
What are they going to do about people who are dead
i was falsely accused and found guilty of something I didn't do and I have to raise £500,000 to bring those who were responsible to trial so The prosecution in my case had evidence in its posession clear me of the most serious charges and there was case law to nullify the others- that said they are easily refuted. However I am very pleased some people got justice. I would do anything for some kind of justice.
1 of the questions asked in the program is where did the money go? ... If the Post office told the sub-postperson they owed £30k which many paid that means the Post Office received £60k which must have shown up in their accounts
exactly, the Post Office has records, should be sorted in weeks not months or years.
@@johnherbert7489 Its totally beyond me also why the Post Office and the people running it then have not been charged with corporate manslaughter for the people who committed suicide over this
Will victims be recompensed for personal money they used to make up unexplainable shortfalls, will those who died be compensated to their families and will the government cover all legal expenses of these people? My understanding is almost all have crushing legal fees not covered by any of these compensations AND they are being forced to sign documents stating they are being truthful which is a smack on top of all they have been through. Horizon and the executives need to be brought to justice equivalent to the suffering these postal workers were put through!
Vennels should go to prison for Life.
Rishi Sunak is the greatest PM to have in this timeline.His integrity , sincerity and transparency , unmatched.
Private Schooling is brilllliant.
Are you taking the pissed
Keep blaming the softwear and not the legal system or the people in charge of the post office.
If they had only known about it sooner heh? Only once its been on tv - anyone fooled?
Nobody, criminals and scammers knowingly and we are ALL ANGRY!
Rishi can't bring back the dead
Sent a package last year never arrived. Was a return from Amazon. 200£ gone.
i bet they make you wait for any money if you ask for more than 600k
Basically take £75,000 now or if you seek more than you will have to wait longer, so the Minister is telling them to take the £75,000 and dont look for more. We are talking 25-years and many have lost everything, so what an MP earns a year is what the government are offering.