I never knew how much i needed this, using paint truly brings me back and immediately connects with me as back in the day i used paint to make diagrams all the time.
Thanks a lot for the guide! For some reason I really enjoy surv hunter, just the way the class works, and general aesthetics of it, but it felt really clunky to play. And the builds I found on icy veins all focused on coordinated assault and the burst window was overwhelming. But you provided several play styles with good variety and went deep enough into the rotation to make it clear, but not too deep to overwhelm. Good job!
That's so good to hear 😁 Thanks for the supportive comment. I really don't like how janky coordinated assault is. I have no idea how somebody new to the spec is supposed to understand it. I've been playing dragonflight basically nonstop and I still don't even really get it. Luckily the specs talent tree is very lenient so you really can play just about any combination of talents you want (outside of a few) and you'll get similar dps results.
First off, Thank you! I'm dead happy you enjoyed it. Secondly, liked first? You crazy... what if I said survival sucked and it was an entire video of why blizzard should remove it from the game. Risky... but I do appreciate the like a lot so thanks 😄
Love your bomb builds for single and aoe, I achieve good dps with them in raid and m+. I changed it a bit to fit more my playstyle, but you finally gave me inspiration after my struggle to find the right build at the start of the season.
That's awesome to hear. Survivals talent tree is incredibly balanced in terms of how you can practically play any talent build and achieve very similar dps so its good to hear you are changing it up to suite your preferred playstyle 😄
I got the polearm from the raid, so I figured I'd look into SV. I'm kinda shocked how similar it feels in rhythm to BM with the exception of trying to get as much up time on the beast CD.
I think it was very smart putting that disclaimer in the beginning. Great guide! I wanna swap to Surv so bad and my raid won’t care but I am so scared to get owned in melee 😂
You should totally give it a try! It's a very different experience being in melee if you are used to ranged and you might not like it but you also might end up liking it
iirc (haven't played in some months) the coordinated assault tl;dr is empowered kill shot does the most damage when you attack directly after your pet uses its basic attack, any more fucks up the empowered buff. so the macro handles your pet's auto attack to be disabled on CA and enabled on KS. the mechanical "chunk" noise confirms you landed an empowered kill shot. the sqrt scaling math just goes to show on how many targets your aoe abilities will do max damage on. each ability has a damage cap, and as it reaches the cap the damage will be split amongst the targets to compensate. empowered kill shot reaches max damage against 4 targets, you won't do any more damage beyond the 4 targets. bombs however can affect up to 20 targets, no more damage beyond that. 8 targets is most optimal with using bombs, any more targets and the sqrt scaling will begin to split the damage and result in the individual mobs taking less damage. Before 8 targets, it's doing around 18k damage per target. After 8 targets, it's doing 6k-13k damage per target. tl;dr sqrt scaling protects aoe abilities from doing crazy amounts of damage by continually spreading the damage out amongst the targets. there are damage caps to things, and this is only really good to know if you are a min-max logger.
Really good Guide :) I testet the "No Cooldown" Build and it feels very good to me. Doing Keys about LV 13+- and doing overall about 115k dps in a fortified week :) (on my first Day of SV Hunter gaming). TY ALOT :D
Love the retro windows aesthetic. Appreciate the new tips/knowledge you gave me. Respect the fact that you said you'd put info/resources in the descrption box & actually did. 卄乇ㄥㄥ ㄚ乇卂卄 乃尺ㄖㄒ卄乇尺
What they did last night was just a hotfix aimed at BM hunters but yes it still did effect Survival. However, it's not a nerf just more of a revert to fix a bug causing unintended extra damage we didn't expect to have
Loving the videos, thank you. Just a couple of questions - no mention of serpent sting in either the single or aoe rotation, is it just a spell you use when out of range or approaching the target? Also, the no cooldown build has no carve/butchery yet that seems a big part of the aoe rotation?
"Don't worry about mongoose bite, it's good to track it but playing around it is something you don't really care about at all this season" I.. I.. I love you. Will you marry me? These are the sweetest, most beautiful, enchanting words anyone has ever said to me. I cannot overstate how much I absolutely FUCKING HATE MONGOOSE BITE SPAM MANAGEMENT FUCK IT FUCK IT FUCK IT SOOOOOOOO MMMMMMMUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHH. So thank you. I wuv you. edit: also want to add my "fucking awesome video" praise to the pile. This is fantastic.
Mistake in the video: I said wafting writ was a good weapon enchant but this is false and the actual weapon enchant you want is wafting devotion or sophic devotion.
It actually does compete with it pretty well once you get your 4-set and better gear in general. BM is busted out the gate this season but as everyone gets more gear the gap closes a lot. In full BiS Survival sims higher then BM and is considered statistically better for m+, not like anyones going to play it still. It does suffer in the raid with how many damage amps there are and how big burst is, which survival has none of and BM is incredibly good at taking advantage of all the damage amps as its a lot burstier.
I don't have a weak aura for it but I bet there's some out there that remind you to use it on bosses ect. Like I said I don't have one myself but give it a google and hopefully something pops up that you're after
Great guide only one thing. Using hydra's bite makes Serpent Sting do way more of my damage. It actually is my top dealer in some runs. Maybe it's high movement fights where I can't stay in melee range consistently. Not really sure. But also when it's my top dealer I usually top the meter as well. It's weird because almost every one says don't use Hydra.
Hydra's bite is a trap. It becomes your 2nd highest damage below bombs when you take it but you end up losing a lot of damage elsewhere since you are now pressing serpent sting where as you usually wouldn't. In aoe you will end up applying serpent sting for free with your green bombs which you get a lot of this season with the new tier set. Violent reaction is bugged, only effecting one target and deals pathetically low damage so it doesn't matter if serpent sting is on targets before you green bomb. The main reason people say its bad is because it sims really really bad, if it simmed well then it'd be another story. Like, I can try and explain why its not good but it's mainly down to it just simming bad in every scenario
As for crafting, you can use the vault to get a socket on the belt and for pets i prefer to use a tank pet for the extra HP in high keys plus the defensive CD,
You can get a socket from vault but you shouldn't really be ever in a position where you have to get a socket from vault in the first month of the season at least and by that time you can craft basically whatever anyway. Tenacity pets are okay to switch to mid fight if you need the defensive to survive but that only really becomes a thing in like one or two of the dungeons at 25+. If something isn't going to one shot you and you have turtle and/or survival of the fittest off cooldown there's really no reason to use a tenacity pet. Issue with running a tenacity pet all the time is losing that 10% leech really hurts our self sustain. Rot damage becomes a serious threat where as before you could just ignore it and healers have to spend more GCD's healing you rather than dpsing meaning things take longer to die ect. Say on average at the end of a dungeon with a ferocity pet you heal for 20k hps overall where as with a tenacity pet it'd be more like 10k (probably less) meaning the healer has to heal you a lot more and you have to spend more GCD's pressing bear and more exhils over damage buttons as well. It's a lose lose situation and your poor healer is having to actually heal more and healers are strange and usually would rather be damaging stuff and not worrying about people. Also leech makes exhil and health potions heal more since the leech effects them so an extra little bonus. It's really up to you either way what you pick but that's my paragraph for why you should pick team ferocity.
@@NimzeWoW well gonna try to run the ferocity pet to see if i can mitigate more dmg then . As for the belt as the weeks go by there will be a time eventually where the vault wont give you anything worthy so you can just pick a socket into the belt as a safe option
@@xXStrider02Xx Yeah give it a try and if you end up missing your tenacity pet you can always swap back. I know there will be a time where you have to take the socket from vault and at that time putting it on the belt if you crafted it is a nice option. What I meant with my last comment was that at that point you should be able to craft anything anyway (technically depends on your gearing I guess). But with crafted gear capping at 486 it's not like crafting every other piece other then tier is that big of deal this time. Apart from rings, they give a guaranteed socket which is really nice early on. This just means you have more freedom to re-craft your embellishment pieces if needed. Crafting embellishment pieces around what gear you lack early on will give you a bigger power boost compared to crafting for the future gear you'll get weeks/months down the line
I'm sure there will be some decent ones on the wago website if you use weakauras. Personally I use an addon called 'tellmewhen' for my UI with tracking spell cooldowns and buffs ect. But all of that stuff is a preference choice so have a browse on wago: wago.io/elvui/classes/hunter. See if there's any you like the look of or if you wanted what I use then download 'tellmewhen' and I can send you my group profiles if that's something you wanted.
I watched this for the rotation section. This is what Im doing, I think I just need to learn the raid fights better so my brain isnt tv static, cause I really did not parse well compared to s1 lol
@@NimzeWoWDo you think it's best to try and time cooldowns to be used after FoTE, after the opener? I find that I get Fury back really quick and then it seems like that damage window is wasted and my EShot and Chakram have a weaker effect without it
@@playablecharacter3871 Just use it on cooldown. It really doesn't matter that much with lining up cooldowns. Getting fury of the eagle up more often is better then trying to align it with other things.
I felt like that might be too much going on screen while I explained the rotation part but I'll almost certainly be uploading mythic plus pov's throughout the season so that'll kinda show the rotation with gameplay
Oh my god.... What have I done! Yes it's wafting devotion. I knew Id make a mistake somewhere. And I can't even go back and change it I don't think since the videos posted. Sorry about that, yeah it's wafting devotion. Thanks for calling it out.
So in AOE, even if you don't Hydra's Bite up so mobs and instead have the same rotation as with latent poison. You'd need to trigger all latent poison with a Mongoose/Raptor at att least 2-3 stacks (in phone so napkin math) for it to do more than hydras that got 20% increased damage built in? I just don't seem to get why latent poison is so great in AOE, what am i missing? Update: checked your DHT video. Poison dot was 19 mil and your latent dmg was 4.5 mil. That would indeed out match Hydra's Bite by about double. However dotting up during pull with Hydra's isnt many gcd's so I'd like to argue you would end up with serp on all targets way quicker, all being refreshed by green bomb with 0 effort (so more green bomb action, minor thing) . I'm not saying it's clear cut one way or another. But all guides seem to dismiss Hydra's Bite way too fast. So I'm wondering if I'm missing something major here 😅
With serpent stinging mobs at the start of a pull, you could instead use that time to throw out a bomb, even if it doesn't hit that many targets its still going to be more damage than getting a few extra seconds of some serpent stings. The thing with this tier set especially, is that we get a lot of bombs. The tier set throws out a free bomb + gives you the free bomb charge. Also Ruthless Marauder is going to give you 1-2 bombs when you fury of the eagle which we're doing basically on pull due to the tier set. It would be incredibly unlikely to not get some green bombs that throw out 3 free serpent stings. Volatile Reaction does stupidly low damage (pretty sure its bugged to only affect your main target) otherwise maybe there would be more of an argument for hydras bite. The reason why all the guides dismiss it is due to it simming so poorly in every type of sim. It currently sims better to press practically any other ability over serpent sting even when it hits 3 targets. Quite a few people ran it last season and its a burning topic in the Survival Hunter community on the Trueshot Lodge discord. Basically running Hydras Bite could = more serpent sting damage (including what you'd get with latent poison) overall in a key but you lose other sources of damage since you are now using GCD's to press an ability you otherwise wouldn't.
@@NimzeWoW have tried around with it and it def don't seem to be a bad choice with latent. I think I just need to become better at switching target to trigger the stacks. Ty for taking the time. I'm on phone so logs is a tad clunky to look up but it seems, at least in heroic, you raid with st build and mostly only vary steel trap/explosive shot. Think I saw butchery used at first and last boss only or something similar. Did I get that right about you module use st build current tier in heroic?
@@JKS_Crafting Pretty much. I use butchery on the first boss in mythic, I've stopped using it on HC just with adds dying so fast. I use it on Tindral HC. But yeah I basically just use the single-target build with some small variations. Mainly, like you said, switching steel trap for explosive when there's more than 1 target. Funnily enough in m+ I've realised that both latent poison injection and hydras bite are simming a little lower for me then not running either. I've put the 2 talent points into Serrated Shots and the 3% pet damage. I was really surprised when sims told me this was better but apparently it is in AoE.
@@NimzeWoW interesting! Just commenting right now to keep it fresh in my mind for later today and not forget. Will properly reply later, I'd like to test it out first
@@NimzeWoW ok, did a DHT 20 and also simmed . Sim wise it was between 0.2-0.4# better to go for that (im not well versed in sim so i ran hectic boss cleave 5 targets and a dungeon slice) .. play wise im unsure if it felt any different but i DO appriciate having 2/2 in serrated shots on bolstering for sure.
I didn't touch on it in the video and perhaps I should have. We don't press the ability and we only take the talent so we have access to latent poison injection. Yes that means its technically 2 talent points just for poison injection but it's worth the 2 talent points over picking 2 of any of the remaining talents we can pick from on the hunter tree. As for serpent sting itself, we apply it passively with mongoose bite and bombs so it's almost always up on enemies without having to ever press it.
We got buffs pretty recently but the specs damage is more then fine and it's not really the thing that's stopping the spec from pushing the highest keys
A bit of a delayed response. Just didn't see the comment sorry about that. Erm... the main issue with hydras bite is that you have so many green bombs that you send out which do what hydras bite does but for free. Spending that GCD on serpent sting isn't worth it according to sims and robots know all - probably. It's just awkward to fit in the rotation where as poison injection is also something that doesn't cost a GCD to use since you'd be mongoose/raptor striking the targets anyway. It also does pretty decent damage even if you don't track the stacks in combat to play it 'optimally'. It mainly all comes down to the fact that sims say poison injection is better in all scenarios so we roll with it.
Ok, one more time for the stupid mfs like me Embellishments I have a Raid Neck Do i use 1 crafted gear with Shadowflame-Tempered Armor Patch and Adaptive Dracothyst Armguards OR 2 crafted gear with Shadowflame-Tempered Armor Patch?
It's kind of a preference choice in a way. So adaptive dracothyst armguards sim the tiniest bit lower then an item with a shadowflame patch. But, the damage is so close that either is fine. Shadowflame patch will make you take a little extra damage too and if you also play BM then the adaptive armguards are also going to be good for that spec. So if I were to recommend what you craft then it depends if: you play BM and SV then > craft Adaptive Armguards + A piece of gear with Shadowflame Patch. You just play SV and you wanna do the most (only a tiny bit, like 0.1% more) damage in Raid and M+ while taking a tiny bit extra damage then > craft 2x pieces of gear with Shadowflame Patches. Hope that made it less confusing and not more :D
Yes I raid with a ferocity pet. It's not that the defensive you get with a tenacity is bad or anything it's actually pretty good but it still doesn't give you as much self heal as you'll get from the 10% leech. Being able to passively heal yourself, by quite a lot as well, means the healers don't have to heal you as much which is good. Also the leech affects exhil and health potions meaning they heal you a little bit more too. If you really required the defensive to survive an ability when turtle and survival of the fittest were on cooldown then there's an argument to switch to a tenacity pet but the times that happen are incredibly rare, maybe not even existent. It's technically personal preference so if you wanted to run a tenacity pet of course you can
@@NimzeWoWthanks for answering this because that was one of my main worries swapping to Surv. I always felt like the extra defensive was super necessary on BM and MM but BM’s leech is fake since their pets do all the dmg and MM doesn’t have leech to benefit from. Wooo self sustain!
Poorly designed more so then undertuned. Mastery increases the damage of our focus spending abilities. That's really not that much of our damage. Most of our damage comes from bombs, fury of the eagle and our pet, none of which require focus to use meaning mastery doesn't increase their damage at all. Mongoose bite does deal okay damage in single-target but it's still usually only about 10-15% of our overall damage. Serpent sting is around 6-10% and kill shot is around 5% if you run coordinated assault, and these %'s get worse in aoe so you can kind of see why mastery sucks so hard for Survival since those are the only abilities it really effects.
I don't know a whole lot about PvP but I think it's not quite as bad for PvP but still not great. It's awful for PvE though. It doesn't effect bombs, fury of the eagle or out pets. All 3 of these are the majority of where our damage comes from this season
I would say missed a big thing about pets if u already have someone in ur group with lust and its entangling week run a cunning pet its way better overall can save ur life in keys
You lose a lot of self sustain though. Most of our defensiveness comes from our pet and cunning doesn't provide any defensive things at all. You can just disengage out of the entangling if you wanted to but it's usually pretty easy to just walk out of it. I feel like entangling is a super chill affix and really not worth losing that sweet sweet leech especially since yeah we can just disengage out for free. Or even cheetah, we have so many ways to get out already
@@NimzeWoW thats fair keep in mind i dont just mean use it on u i mean on ur other dudes. Its pretty solid. Yes though i will use ferocity pet when we dont have a lust and for the leech which helps a lot as well. Also if we need it for to finish a key when the key is done to BL again. I agree tho overall ill still be sticking with cunning on entangling. Any week i 100% aggro.
I don't play either of the other hunter specs at all but at the start of this season BM's straight up better overall. Though once you get the new tier set and better gear Survival outsims it. MM is just not that great this season it seems, outside of being able to do crazy good burst AoE.
I enjoy how you explain the rotations as if someone is forcing you to do so at gunpoint.
Rotations are confusing to try to explain 😖
this is the most beautifully presented wow video guide i've ever seen
That is insanely high praise. Thanks and I'm glad you liked it 😀
I never knew how much i needed this, using paint truly brings me back and immediately connects with me as back in the day i used paint to make diagrams all the time.
Thank you for the guide. You have no idea how hard it was finding even a decent tutorial for survival and yours is VERY good.
You convinced me to try Survival and I'm loving it. Thanks.
That's awesome to hear! Glad you're enjoying the spec
Thanks a lot for the guide! For some reason I really enjoy surv hunter, just the way the class works, and general aesthetics of it, but it felt really clunky to play. And the builds I found on icy veins all focused on coordinated assault and the burst window was overwhelming. But you provided several play styles with good variety and went deep enough into the rotation to make it clear, but not too deep to overwhelm. Good job!
That's so good to hear 😁
Thanks for the supportive comment. I really don't like how janky coordinated assault is. I have no idea how somebody new to the spec is supposed to understand it. I've been playing dragonflight basically nonstop and I still don't even really get it. Luckily the specs talent tree is very lenient so you really can play just about any combination of talents you want (outside of a few) and you'll get similar dps results.
Laughed my ass off the whole video, nice work, and great guide!
Thanks! I'm glad it was helpful and apparently funny? I'll take that compliment thanks 😄
Awesome video! Thank you
stumbled across your channel today while looking for a hunter guide . amazing video loved everything about it
That's awesome to hear! Glad you found it useful 😁
wow another banger from nimze i am so happy, this is what i watch youtube for, liked first then watched.
First off, Thank you! I'm dead happy you enjoyed it. Secondly, liked first? You crazy... what if I said survival sucked and it was an entire video of why blizzard should remove it from the game. Risky... but I do appreciate the like a lot so thanks 😄
Maaan, amazing guide, the Best for learning and improving on the spec. Because of this guide, today i play with survival hunter. Thx man.
That's a big compliment! Thank you 😁
easily the best guide i've ever seen. So much fun watching :D
That is massive praise! Thanks and I'm glad you enjoyed it and found it useful
just came back to wow after 3 years of pause. Wanted to try the new survival spec, it was a very helpful video thank you :) !
you sumed it up and explained it perfectly!!! i play wow for a long time with all hunter specs.
Presentation for this video was gorgeous, well done
Love your bomb builds for single and aoe, I achieve good dps with them in raid and m+. I changed it a bit to fit more my playstyle, but you finally gave me inspiration after my struggle to find the right build at the start of the season.
That's awesome to hear. Survivals talent tree is incredibly balanced in terms of how you can practically play any talent build and achieve very similar dps so its good to hear you are changing it up to suite your preferred playstyle 😄
I got the polearm from the raid, so I figured I'd look into SV. I'm kinda shocked how similar it feels in rhythm to BM with the exception of trying to get as much up time on the beast CD.
Awesome video. Thanks.
You're welcome Semi, glad you enjoyed it 😀
I think it was very smart putting that disclaimer in the beginning. Great guide!
I wanna swap to Surv so bad and my raid won’t care but I am so scared to get owned in melee 😂
You should totally give it a try! It's a very different experience being in melee if you are used to ranged and you might not like it but you also might end up liking it
Given it's like a 2 week learning curve to switch from ranged to melee, you should be fine by now.
iirc (haven't played in some months) the coordinated assault tl;dr is empowered kill shot does the most damage when you attack directly after your pet uses its basic attack, any more fucks up the empowered buff. so the macro handles your pet's auto attack to be disabled on CA and enabled on KS. the mechanical "chunk" noise confirms you landed an empowered kill shot.
the sqrt scaling math just goes to show on how many targets your aoe abilities will do max damage on. each ability has a damage cap, and as it reaches the cap the damage will be split amongst the targets to compensate.
empowered kill shot reaches max damage against 4 targets, you won't do any more damage beyond the 4 targets. bombs however can affect up to 20 targets, no more damage beyond that. 8 targets is most optimal with using bombs, any more targets and the sqrt scaling will begin to split the damage and result in the individual mobs taking less damage. Before 8 targets, it's doing around 18k damage per target. After 8 targets, it's doing 6k-13k damage per target.
tl;dr sqrt scaling protects aoe abilities from doing crazy amounts of damage by continually spreading the damage out amongst the targets. there are damage caps to things, and this is only really good to know if you are a min-max logger.
Wow! Really really great guide man!!
Subbed within 5s of your video because I like your vibe
just amazing man ! "oh god i have to do aoe too" 🤣🤣
Really good Guide :) I testet the "No Cooldown" Build and it feels very good to me. Doing Keys about LV 13+- and doing overall about 115k dps in a fortified week :) (on my first Day of SV Hunter gaming). TY ALOT :D
Love the retro windows aesthetic. Appreciate the new tips/knowledge you gave me. Respect the fact that you said you'd put info/resources in the descrption box & actually did.
卄乇ㄥㄥ ㄚ乇卂卄 乃尺ㄖㄒ卄乇尺
Buena guía te sigo desde el parche anterior, gracias por tu aporte
You're very welcome!
decent guide even if it sounds like someone is holding a gun to your head
Brilliant video and editing! Loved it! You should do standup XD
This is a brilliant idea. I'll do standup about Survival hunter. Gotta spread the word about the spec into the real world
Thanks for the vid, love the old windows theme! Any thoughts on the hunter pet rework and if we are going to be unintendidly nerfed?
What they did last night was just a hotfix aimed at BM hunters but yes it still did effect Survival. However, it's not a nerf just more of a revert to fix a bug causing unintended extra damage we didn't expect to have
There's no such thing as friends at that level.
Loving the videos, thank you. Just a couple of questions - no mention of serpent sting in either the single or aoe rotation, is it just a spell you use when out of range or approaching the target? Also, the no cooldown build has no carve/butchery yet that seems a big part of the aoe rotation?
"Don't worry about mongoose bite, it's good to track it but playing around it is something you don't really care about at all this season"
I.. I.. I love you. Will you marry me? These are the sweetest, most beautiful, enchanting words anyone has ever said to me. I cannot overstate how much I absolutely FUCKING HATE MONGOOSE BITE SPAM MANAGEMENT FUCK IT FUCK IT FUCK IT SOOOOOOOO MMMMMMMUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHH.
So thank you. I wuv you.
edit: also want to add my "fucking awesome video" praise to the pile. This is fantastic.
Mistake in the video: I said wafting writ was a good weapon enchant but this is false and the actual weapon enchant you want is wafting devotion or sophic devotion.
Its a great guide. Just wish Survival could compete with BM then I would switch in a moment
It actually does compete with it pretty well once you get your 4-set and better gear in general. BM is busted out the gate this season but as everyone gets more gear the gap closes a lot. In full BiS Survival sims higher then BM and is considered statistically better for m+, not like anyones going to play it still. It does suffer in the raid with how many damage amps there are and how big burst is, which survival has none of and BM is incredibly good at taking advantage of all the damage amps as its a lot burstier.
Great video! Was wondering if you have some kind of hunter's mark weak aura since now its pretty good on bosses above 80% health to use :D
I don't have a weak aura for it but I bet there's some out there that remind you to use it on bosses ect. Like I said I don't have one myself but give it a google and hopefully something pops up that you're after
ty
yw
u made me make a sv huunter!
Great guide only one thing. Using hydra's bite makes Serpent Sting do way more of my damage. It actually is my top dealer in some runs. Maybe it's high movement fights where I can't stay in melee range consistently. Not really sure. But also when it's my top dealer I usually top the meter as well. It's weird because almost every one says don't use Hydra.
Hydra's bite is a trap. It becomes your 2nd highest damage below bombs when you take it but you end up losing a lot of damage elsewhere since you are now pressing serpent sting where as you usually wouldn't. In aoe you will end up applying serpent sting for free with your green bombs which you get a lot of this season with the new tier set. Violent reaction is bugged, only effecting one target and deals pathetically low damage so it doesn't matter if serpent sting is on targets before you green bomb. The main reason people say its bad is because it sims really really bad, if it simmed well then it'd be another story. Like, I can try and explain why its not good but it's mainly down to it just simming bad in every scenario
hello, thanks for ur nice guides. i wanna try the non cd build, but when i will use serpent sting in the prio rotation ?
As for crafting, you can use the vault to get a socket on the belt and for pets i prefer to use a tank pet for the extra HP in high keys plus the defensive CD,
You can get a socket from vault but you shouldn't really be ever in a position where you have to get a socket from vault in the first month of the season at least and by that time you can craft basically whatever anyway.
Tenacity pets are okay to switch to mid fight if you need the defensive to survive but that only really becomes a thing in like one or two of the dungeons at 25+. If something isn't going to one shot you and you have turtle and/or survival of the fittest off cooldown there's really no reason to use a tenacity pet. Issue with running a tenacity pet all the time is losing that 10% leech really hurts our self sustain. Rot damage becomes a serious threat where as before you could just ignore it and healers have to spend more GCD's healing you rather than dpsing meaning things take longer to die ect. Say on average at the end of a dungeon with a ferocity pet you heal for 20k hps overall where as with a tenacity pet it'd be more like 10k (probably less) meaning the healer has to heal you a lot more and you have to spend more GCD's pressing bear and more exhils over damage buttons as well. It's a lose lose situation and your poor healer is having to actually heal more and healers are strange and usually would rather be damaging stuff and not worrying about people.
Also leech makes exhil and health potions heal more since the leech effects them so an extra little bonus.
It's really up to you either way what you pick but that's my paragraph for why you should pick team ferocity.
@@NimzeWoW well gonna try to run the ferocity pet to see if i can mitigate more dmg then .
As for the belt as the weeks go by there will be a time eventually where the vault wont give you anything worthy so you can just pick a socket into the belt as a safe option
@@xXStrider02Xx Yeah give it a try and if you end up missing your tenacity pet you can always swap back.
I know there will be a time where you have to take the socket from vault and at that time putting it on the belt if you crafted it is a nice option. What I meant with my last comment was that at that point you should be able to craft anything anyway (technically depends on your gearing I guess). But with crafted gear capping at 486 it's not like crafting every other piece other then tier is that big of deal this time. Apart from rings, they give a guaranteed socket which is really nice early on. This just means you have more freedom to re-craft your embellishment pieces if needed. Crafting embellishment pieces around what gear you lack early on will give you a bigger power boost compared to crafting for the future gear you'll get weeks/months down the line
Hi, maybe you know a good interface for hunter ? :)
I'm sure there will be some decent ones on the wago website if you use weakauras. Personally I use an addon called 'tellmewhen' for my UI with tracking spell cooldowns and buffs ect. But all of that stuff is a preference choice so have a browse on wago: wago.io/elvui/classes/hunter.
See if there's any you like the look of or if you wanted what I use then download 'tellmewhen' and I can send you my group profiles if that's something you wanted.
I watched this for the rotation section. This is what Im doing, I think I just need to learn the raid fights better so my brain isnt tv static, cause I really did not parse well compared to s1 lol
parsing at the start of a season is a bit sketch to begin with, but keep at it and I'm sure you'll start parsing big!
@@NimzeWoWDo you think it's best to try and time cooldowns to be used after FoTE, after the opener? I find that I get Fury back really quick and then it seems like that damage window is wasted and my EShot and Chakram have a weaker effect without it
@@playablecharacter3871 Just use it on cooldown. It really doesn't matter that much with lining up cooldowns. Getting fury of the eagle up more often is better then trying to align it with other things.
@@NimzeWoW Tyvm, everything's working better now that I got tier and Rashon
Game play would be nice to see to show the rotations
I felt like that might be too much going on screen while I explained the rotation part but I'll almost certainly be uploading mythic plus pov's throughout the season so that'll kinda show the rotation with gameplay
Wafting writ or Wafting devotion?
Oh my god.... What have I done!
Yes it's wafting devotion. I knew Id make a mistake somewhere. And I can't even go back and change it I don't think since the videos posted. Sorry about that, yeah it's wafting devotion. Thanks for calling it out.
So in AOE, even if you don't Hydra's Bite up so mobs and instead have the same rotation as with latent poison. You'd need to trigger all latent poison with a Mongoose/Raptor at att least 2-3 stacks (in phone so napkin math) for it to do more than hydras that got 20% increased damage built in?
I just don't seem to get why latent poison is so great in AOE, what am i missing?
Update: checked your DHT video. Poison dot was 19 mil and your latent dmg was 4.5 mil.
That would indeed out match Hydra's Bite by about double.
However dotting up during pull with Hydra's isnt many gcd's so I'd like to argue you would end up with serp on all targets way quicker, all being refreshed by green bomb with 0 effort (so more green bomb action, minor thing) .
I'm not saying it's clear cut one way or another. But all guides seem to dismiss Hydra's Bite way too fast. So I'm wondering if I'm missing something major here 😅
With serpent stinging mobs at the start of a pull, you could instead use that time to throw out a bomb, even if it doesn't hit that many targets its still going to be more damage than getting a few extra seconds of some serpent stings. The thing with this tier set especially, is that we get a lot of bombs. The tier set throws out a free bomb + gives you the free bomb charge. Also Ruthless Marauder is going to give you 1-2 bombs when you fury of the eagle which we're doing basically on pull due to the tier set. It would be incredibly unlikely to not get some green bombs that throw out 3 free serpent stings. Volatile Reaction does stupidly low damage (pretty sure its bugged to only affect your main target) otherwise maybe there would be more of an argument for hydras bite.
The reason why all the guides dismiss it is due to it simming so poorly in every type of sim. It currently sims better to press practically any other ability over serpent sting even when it hits 3 targets. Quite a few people ran it last season and its a burning topic in the Survival Hunter community on the Trueshot Lodge discord. Basically running Hydras Bite could = more serpent sting damage (including what you'd get with latent poison) overall in a key but you lose other sources of damage since you are now using GCD's to press an ability you otherwise wouldn't.
@@NimzeWoW have tried around with it and it def don't seem to be a bad choice with latent. I think I just need to become better at switching target to trigger the stacks.
Ty for taking the time.
I'm on phone so logs is a tad clunky to look up but it seems, at least in heroic, you raid with st build and mostly only vary steel trap/explosive shot.
Think I saw butchery used at first and last boss only or something similar. Did I get that right about you module use st build current tier in heroic?
@@JKS_Crafting Pretty much. I use butchery on the first boss in mythic, I've stopped using it on HC just with adds dying so fast. I use it on Tindral HC. But yeah I basically just use the single-target build with some small variations. Mainly, like you said, switching steel trap for explosive when there's more than 1 target.
Funnily enough in m+ I've realised that both latent poison injection and hydras bite are simming a little lower for me then not running either. I've put the 2 talent points into Serrated Shots and the 3% pet damage. I was really surprised when sims told me this was better but apparently it is in AoE.
@@NimzeWoW interesting! Just commenting right now to keep it fresh in my mind for later today and not forget. Will properly reply later, I'd like to test it out first
@@NimzeWoW ok, did a DHT 20 and also simmed . Sim wise it was between 0.2-0.4# better to go for that (im not well versed in sim so i ran hectic boss cleave 5 targets and a dungeon slice) .. play wise im unsure if it felt any different but i DO appriciate having 2/2 in serrated shots on bolstering for sure.
Hey @Nimze, nobody is talking about Serpent Sting and if we even using it? So maybe it could be better to swap those points into something different?
I didn't touch on it in the video and perhaps I should have. We don't press the ability and we only take the talent so we have access to latent poison injection. Yes that means its technically 2 talent points just for poison injection but it's worth the 2 talent points over picking 2 of any of the remaining talents we can pick from on the hunter tree.
As for serpent sting itself, we apply it passively with mongoose bite and bombs so it's almost always up on enemies without having to ever press it.
Thank you!@@NimzeWoW
While I enjoy survival we do nerd some buffs . I was 475 for a while when i just switched to BM just to get KSM seens damage scales better
We got buffs pretty recently but the specs damage is more then fine and it's not really the thing that's stopping the spec from pushing the highest keys
@NimzeWoW I agree but looking at higher keys you see more BM and MM than survival. Ad melee class others bring more ultity
Do you want to save Fury of the Eagle until Death Chakram comes off CD or just use Fury as soon as it's ready?
Blast fury of the eagle whenever it comes off CD don't hold it to line it up with anything, not even death chakram
What are your thoughts on poison injection vs hydras bite as it pertains to the rotation and being optimal ? I know you say it’s “bad” but why tho
A bit of a delayed response. Just didn't see the comment sorry about that. Erm... the main issue with hydras bite is that you have so many green bombs that you send out which do what hydras bite does but for free. Spending that GCD on serpent sting isn't worth it according to sims and robots know all - probably. It's just awkward to fit in the rotation where as poison injection is also something that doesn't cost a GCD to use since you'd be mongoose/raptor striking the targets anyway. It also does pretty decent damage even if you don't track the stacks in combat to play it 'optimally'. It mainly all comes down to the fact that sims say poison injection is better in all scenarios so we roll with it.
Ok, one more time for the stupid mfs like me
Embellishments
I have a Raid Neck
Do i use 1 crafted gear with Shadowflame-Tempered Armor Patch and Adaptive Dracothyst Armguards
OR
2 crafted gear with Shadowflame-Tempered Armor Patch?
It's kind of a preference choice in a way. So adaptive dracothyst armguards sim the tiniest bit lower then an item with a shadowflame patch. But, the damage is so close that either is fine. Shadowflame patch will make you take a little extra damage too and if you also play BM then the adaptive armguards are also going to be good for that spec.
So if I were to recommend what you craft then it depends if:
you play BM and SV then > craft Adaptive Armguards + A piece of gear with Shadowflame Patch.
You just play SV and you wanna do the most (only a tiny bit, like 0.1% more) damage in Raid and M+ while taking a tiny bit extra damage then > craft 2x pieces of gear with Shadowflame Patches.
Hope that made it less confusing and not more :D
Win98, really? Otherwise, thanks for the content!
For pets do you raid with a ferocity pet? Don't miss the defensive a tenacity pet gives us?
Yes I raid with a ferocity pet. It's not that the defensive you get with a tenacity is bad or anything it's actually pretty good but it still doesn't give you as much self heal as you'll get from the 10% leech. Being able to passively heal yourself, by quite a lot as well, means the healers don't have to heal you as much which is good. Also the leech affects exhil and health potions meaning they heal you a little bit more too.
If you really required the defensive to survive an ability when turtle and survival of the fittest were on cooldown then there's an argument to switch to a tenacity pet but the times that happen are incredibly rare, maybe not even existent.
It's technically personal preference so if you wanted to run a tenacity pet of course you can
@@NimzeWoWthanks for answering this because that was one of my main worries swapping to Surv. I always felt like the extra defensive was super necessary on BM and MM but BM’s leech is fake since their pets do all the dmg and MM doesn’t have leech to benefit from. Wooo self sustain!
Il ne faut pas oublié Mark of hunter en premier 🙂
I totally forgot to mention it but yes we have that now, which is really good for getting us that raid spot
Why is mastery so bad? Just undertuned?
Poorly designed more so then undertuned. Mastery increases the damage of our focus spending abilities. That's really not that much of our damage. Most of our damage comes from bombs, fury of the eagle and our pet, none of which require focus to use meaning mastery doesn't increase their damage at all. Mongoose bite does deal okay damage in single-target but it's still usually only about 10-15% of our overall damage. Serpent sting is around 6-10% and kill shot is around 5% if you run coordinated assault, and these %'s get worse in aoe so you can kind of see why mastery sucks so hard for Survival since those are the only abilities it really effects.
Is Mastery that bad? Running in mastery in BG’s I’m hitting like a truck
I don't know a whole lot about PvP but I think it's not quite as bad for PvP but still not great. It's awful for PvE though. It doesn't effect bombs, fury of the eagle or out pets. All 3 of these are the majority of where our damage comes from this season
In PVP mastery is bad too if u want check " Bicmex " best pvp Survival Hunter ;)
I would say missed a big thing about pets if u already have someone in ur group with lust and its entangling week run a cunning pet its way better overall can save ur life in keys
You lose a lot of self sustain though. Most of our defensiveness comes from our pet and cunning doesn't provide any defensive things at all. You can just disengage out of the entangling if you wanted to but it's usually pretty easy to just walk out of it. I feel like entangling is a super chill affix and really not worth losing that sweet sweet leech especially since yeah we can just disengage out for free. Or even cheetah, we have so many ways to get out already
@@NimzeWoW thats fair keep in mind i dont just mean use it on u i mean on ur other dudes. Its pretty solid. Yes though i will use ferocity pet when we dont have a lust and for the leech which helps a lot as well. Also if we need it for to finish a key when the key is done to BL again. I agree tho overall ill still be sticking with cunning on entangling. Any week i 100% aggro.
*agree sorry im a bad typer
Do you focus only on survival? How's it fare against the other two specs?
I don't play either of the other hunter specs at all but at the start of this season BM's straight up better overall. Though once you get the new tier set and better gear Survival outsims it. MM is just not that great this season it seems, outside of being able to do crazy good burst AoE.