Shimano 9-speed. Full stop. 22/32/44 triple and 11-34 cassette gives 17 to 105 gear inches. All the needed range. Road and mountain shifters are fully compatible with either road or mountain derailleurs. (Brifters AND a 17 GI granny gear! No hacks required!)
Alivio 3x9. 26-36-48. 11-36. Terrific for touring - huge gear range, reliable and reasonably priced. I fear that Shimano will abandon this type of setup.
@@belverticale Yes I love that setup, and if for whatever reason you need even lower, you can swap the 26 right down to a 22 in a pinch, it just might need some coaxing back onto the 36.
I have this on one of my bikes. It's by far my favorite. I will say for some of my bigger off road rides I like to have hydrologic disc brakes because I feel better with them.
One year ago I built up my peak mechanical drivetrain for my all steel light touring bike. I used all new parts. It previously was a 2x, but when I saw Rivendell’s triple Silver cranks with 24-34-44 rings I knew it was for me. Equally stepped chainrings on a triple crank makes so much sense to me. It also had ramps and pins for smooth shifts. Rear derailleur is a 9-speed Shimano Sora (medium cage). Front derailleur is a “Stubby Skeleton Key” from Riv. Cassette is a 9 speed Shimano HG 11-34. Shifters are indexed Microshift 2/3 9-speed bar end shifters. It has everything I want. Super wide range (19.1-108 gear inches), inexpensive, easy to install/setup, and shift’s beautifully. Shifts as well as the 16 year old Dura-ace it replaced.
I suspect it will not, unfortunately, because the rear derailleur is a bit of a letdown. He talks about it in this video, around the 7 minute mark. th-cam.com/video/vs6jqJX19bM/w-d-xo.html
How could they not? They meet all the criteria, and they're not even ridiculously expensive. This channel was one of the first to review Sword back a year ago, so I look forward to seeing more about both 9 and 10 speed versions, and soon.
@@stevepalincsar4273 indeed I'm not at all doubting that they're on Russ' radar. I'm just expressing my hope that they will feature in this project. Since he emphasized that he is strictly sticking with _indexed_ shifting systems, I didn't know if the pull ratios or other engineering decisions made by Microshift lend to their derailleurs being compatible with other brands' equipment.
This is the content that many non traditional or converted traditional cyclists are looking for. The unsupported and longevity of mechanical is not just an ethos or aesthetic, but a pragmatic and practical application. I think there is a market for this content and it does invite creativity. Anachronistic? A bit Luddite? Maybe, but the trade in the traditional is a business for more than a few companies. I know I will be watching.
For me it’s Campagnolo mechanical, I ride Chorus 11 speed rim brake on 3 bikes.. l love it works beautifully.. as does all the Campy groups wil upgrade to 12 speed when I need to but no plans 😊 ❤ just my opinion.. Pete
Agree. I'm running Campagnolo 2x10 on three bikes, and I hope I'll be able to get wear parts as needed. In defense of my existing stuff, I moved to wax last summer in hopes the wear parts wear a little less quickly.
Brilliant and long overdue. All of us have older bikes that need upgraded drive trains and this series will point the way without all the latest/greatest marketing hype from the major suppliers.
Sugino Triple, Sunrace 8sp cassette, Campag Ergo Front Shifter, DA barcon, Microshift RD, STX RC FD. My abomination 3x8. If the market consolidates around the cues spacing I may jump ship after all my hoarded 8sp parts wear out.
I have 2x10 and 3x8, I much prefer the 2x10. 3x8 has a huge range but a massive overlap in gears that I just really don’t need. It is reliable though and is very inexpensive (Shimano)
Went all-in on friction after one of my rear derailleur broke and i simply couldnt get my new one to index with my brifters. Slapped a $6 Sunrace friction shifter on it instead out of frustration and a two hour ordeal turned into a 10 monute swap that worked seamlessly, through Unbound 2024 a week later. Now all my stuff is friction. Super simple to shift and even easier to shop and swap parts QUICKLY. Thats important to me.
Thanks for doing this Russ! The cave of bad ideas got me started working on my bike and believing that I could modify it to fit my needs. I don’t care how many speeds, I just want the gear range to make it up the hills! Because of you I actually build a bike from scratch! And, nothing has fallen off or broken :). Not something I would have attempted without your channel.
Me too. Thanks to him and Paul Brodie I'm back to my first hobby: simple, mechanical bikes and small cc motorcycles. As simple as it should be in the first place.
I'm admittedly old at 74, yet still riding both XC and road. I recall my first modded bike, circa 1965, was a three speed Sturmey Archer hub fitted with a 3 speed (Suntour?) cassette, friction shifted. This somewhat acted much like a 3 x 3 with the wide ranging Sturmey Archer and the smaller incremental cassette yielding 9 possible gear combinations. Adding drop down handlebars allowed for 50+ mile days of bikepacking. Keep up the good work, Russ; simplicity is so rarely understood.
Huge fan of this message. Most all of my (40) bikes are friction shifting .. let alone cable driven. Rode an early 70s Alan road racing bicycle last weekend with a group. I was the talk of the ride.
I've actually thought about this a lot, and I think 11 speed was *my* peak era, when mechanical shifting worked so well and most of the major drivetrain components were cross compatible between brands. I'm still using Campagnolo 11 Super Record shifters with a 10-speed Centaur carbon RD and Shimano chain, cassette, front derailleur and Sugino OX crank. It all works flawlessly, and when I need to replace a part, I can pick from nearly any manufacturer.
How does the cable pull match up on that RD. I have a Campag 2000 Record group on one custom and a Chorus/Record mishmash on another. As I get older, adding a 25 to the cassette might come in handy. Also, is there a way I can stick with my five bolt hidden arm square taper Record cranks? I really do prefer the aesthetics of those to anything more recent.
A combo I did recently on an older hardtail I turned into my chunky bikepacking rig - with long steep climbing being a focus - was a 2 x 11 MTB shimano hollowtech setup : 18 gear inches on the low 95 gear inches on the high ~$220 Deore M5100 2x crankset 36 x 26, $50 Deore front shifter, $20 XT Front derailer(it was a cheap option at the time) $25 SLX 11-42 cassette, $50 SLX rear derailer, $50 126 link 11 speed chain, $25
Mechanical is the way forward unless you are a pro. If you ride your bike a lot, for transport and for fun it's great to be able to work on it yourself and fix it. Great content for me.👍
Hey Russ Love it!! This is right up my alley in so many respects, dying to see the follow ups. Bring it on. Couldn't be happier to see people all about this.
I recently did a 2x7 on my gravel bike. Got a 11-42 cassette, 46/30 chainring. Using a 105 road 10-sp rear derailleur and a older shimano STI 7-sp brifter setup. The 7-sp Shimano indexed road shifters have the same cable pull as the 10-sp shimano road rear derailleurs, so work great with the 7-sp cassette. It's plenty of range for me.
Looking forward to this journey. Videos like these keep goading me into getting a 90's MTB and convert it to drop bar. Will you be doing this for drop bars or flat bar as well?
I not only started working on my drivetrains myself but also was inspired to make my mechanical Tektro C550 to work really well because of your content. Also, light and supple tubeless setups for life!
Weird, nerdy bike shit is the best! I learned so much from the Cave of Bad Ideas… used it to build the mullet drivetrain on my Wolverine. The general knowledge has been applied to all my bike builds since then (3, so far). Wish you would include black along with silver, though…
FOG CUTTER!!!! It's been my main bike for the last two years, and I've basically ignored the other 11 in my garage. Fantastic bike. I hope you'll like yours. I'm running Ltwoo's GR9 Hydraulic 1x11 group on it, with an 11-51 Deore cassette, and a 36t chainring.
I kind of agree. My work horse bike was 3x9 deore shifters and a mix of altus and deore derailleur has been great. I feel if your going to have a front derailleur its 3x why only 2 front cogs
Microshift advent x and sword on both of my bikes, TRP spyres with compressionless housing on gravel bike and Hydro brakes on my mtb bikepacking setup.
I'm just wanting to find the best budget friction shifting setup for my bike and get rid of the indexing all together. Save myself time and hassle. Very much looking forward to what you guys come up with throughout this series!
I believe in "never say never", that said I seriously doubt I will ever have a bike that rerquires batteries to shift. My personal "sweet spot" is Shimano 8 or 9 speed index paired with a wide range double. I own one semi-modern bike which is an 11x2 Shimano paired with Microshift thumb shifters. I like the Microshift shifters so much I bought a pair to replace the Shimano push-button shifters on my 15 year old 9-speed fat bike.
Brilliant. Looking forward to the series. Keep holding up the flag for a independent and fanboy-free look on bike components and focus on the stuff that really matters - bikes.
I have a few nice road bikes that are Campy 10 speed, and see no reason to change. I had a friend get killed while riding a few years ago, and just before that happened... I had several close calls as well. SO after all of this, I've been riding in the dirt. Like many of you, I want to ride my current bikes, that are fully mechanical, but also want lower hearing in the back. I also will admit that I want it to shift well, so shifting that it all over the place won't work for me. So, I'm definitely interested in your search, and totally agree... road bikes for me are all mechanical. I can barely remember to charge my phone, and see no reason to have any sort of electrical drivetrains. Ok, I'm ready.... thanks for sharing, sounds like interesting videos coming up!
Peak mechanical was 50/34 with a 11-28 cassette: we couldn't fathom needing a lower gear than that! Then we started mixing MTB cassettes and RDs and that was the sweetest hack! Then 1x came along and gave us even bigger cassettes! Then direct mount chainrings meant our chainrings no longer were bound by our cranks' BCDs. What a fun evolution it has been!
I'm supporting this series. Thanks for doing it. Your criteria are the same as mine, except I would include 8-speed, too, as it was available indexed, and most used an HG freehub. Plus the Shimano 8-speed brifters feature more metal parts, and seem to be more *repairable* than other Shimano brifters. Plus, the older setups used a lot more silver!
GX Eagle (10-50) cassette and rear mech paired with mechanical Rival 1 levers with Ratio Technology upgrade and TRP HY/RD brakes works for me great. And I can operate my dropper via the left lever :)
(This deserves a video of it's own) I was saying recently we missed "peak rim brake". All the pieces were in place and didn't quite come together - sidelined by disc brakes. Peak for rim brake needs: -A caliper that would allow for wider rims and would open wide when quick released. -Designed for direct mount options. -Higher leverage like Shimano Super SLR. Clinched rim options in the wider widths with all the possible modern updates. This is too much to list and a lot is arguable. So the caliper would be for tires over 35mm up to 40mm (42?) Beyond that it's V-brakes or cantis. A brake has been made in one-offs by ee/Cane Creek for Rob English and seems never intended for production. I know Rivendell has a cheap option but missing in some features. I can't quite take seriously Mafac Raids or copies of them. Sorry for off-topic intrusion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If it weren't for disc brakes on road bikes I have no doubt we would have seen caliper brakes from the majors that had clearance for 32s at least maybe a bit bigger. Probably direct mount to get clearance as well as stiffness. anyone wanting bigger than that would likely be worried about clearance for mud, stones and rocks raher than tyres... which is why cantis existed in the first place. As it is peak (caliper) rim brake has passed us. It was Ultegra R8000. Never has there been a finer rim brake that just worked so well and 30mm clearance in direct mount too.
@@uncleants You are right on. I found out about the direct mount 30mm+ fit when I saw a custom Ti bike built for them. The fork was from a rim brake S-Works SL 6. Peak would have been this and it continuing into even better variations. The ability to build such a bike came and went so fast.
Sort of OT but I just wanted to mention that while I don't always agree with your POVs and takes, I do appreciate your voice in the community. Your recent videos on the microSHIFT Sword groupset and earlier video comparison on mech brakes (Yokozuno vs Klampers vs Growtacs) helped me with my latest build... a 2017 Salsa Fargo with the Sword 1x10 and Juin Tech GT brakes. Thank you and remember there's a thriving community eager for your knowledge and experiences.
I'm already down the rabbit hole and committed to 9 spd tripple, friction shifting, rim brake, prepper each month adding to my stash shhhhh don't tell any one.
You can sand/polish the aluminum dye out to get new polished aluminum parts. There might be some pores still visible but still looks good. Looking forward to the series
Shimano 105/Ultegra 9 speed with indexed/friction bar end shifters and rim brakes is my peak mechanical on my Rivendell Rambouillet.. I also have fond memories of Deore XT 7 speed as well, with its thumb shifters and cantilever brakes on my long gone Ritchey Outback from the late 80’s. I do miss that bike and set up.
Ive had 7 8 9 and 10 speed drivetrains. I must say my new xt 12 speed is the best most precise mechanical shifting Ive encountered. 30 front 10-51 rear is all the gear I'll need.
I’m happy with Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed. But also appreciate my Di2. The smoothest and quietest system I have is 1980’s Campagnolo Victory 6 speed friction. I guess I like them all.
Love the topic. I’ve been running a Sensah 11 speed srx with a 46-11 cassette and a compact 2x up front. Using a sora left shifter. It’s a little loose at small small and a little tight at big big. Very reasonable price.
After a couple of year on hacked tourney shifter to work on 1x10 deore RD on a dropbar, it worked great but i find still limited, so i managed to get this combo: Tektro road lever+10s deore xt rd+ 3x FSA carbon crankset octalink series (22-30-44) on Deore FD and shifters retrofitted diameter on dropbar (tops) fitted on my Triban RC100. Covered the shifters with a dropbar bag. wrorks great. Deore 3x10 system is an absolute bargain these days. This channel is my great influencer in trying out bad and great ideas on my bike. Thanks PLP Team.
All in Russ! I know this might be considered niche content, but I have niche interests 😂. Honestly you being you and making videos on things you’re actually interested in is the reason me and my partner watch and patronize the Patreon. Keep it weird!
This is what brought me to the channel. Excited to see what shakes out. Is this going to be all brifters? It seems like a lot of the lower end flat bar trigger shifters should stick around.
Bring it on, we need to keep the analogue experience alive. Looking forward to what you put up - I've just recently started tinkering to create my own setup instead of off the shelf, and really enjoying it.
REALLY stoked for this - hope the aesthetic guideline is kinda' casual, so that practical/affordable options aren't entirely excluded if they are ugly. : )
3x7, Deore XT with the thumbshifters is peak for me because the shifters are dead simple, feels good and the shifting is nice and crisp and super reliable.
Yes, yes, yes. Keep it simple. Older is often better. Thank you for supporting us with the simple, mechanical, direct, reliable, consistent approach. We are not the last of the Mohegans. We are those bringing back sanity and connectedness to the manual art of riding. Let's do it. I have ridden various upright bicycles and recumbent bikes/trikes over the years. I am currently riding an older Trek 800 Sport that was reconditioned by a local mechanic. I love this machine. It has a three by seven drive train with indexed grip shift , rim brakes, very upright riding position, ..... a Spongy Wonder seat that gave me the comfort to get back on an upright after years of riding only recumbents due to regular bicycle seats screwing up my anatomy. Should I stay with the older Trek or would a newer hybrid be a better way to go? 3x7 or 2x8 set up? Grip shift or trigger shift? Rim brakes or disc brakes? No hydraulics or electronics for sure.
3x10 first generation Shadow+ was where Shimano peaked. Still sold new as XT Touring with 48-38-26 rings. In terms of clean light shifting SRAM still haven't caught up but they're doing better than Shimano at this stage if they sorted out double upshifts in their gear shifters. For some reason Shimano decided their customers wanted the same heavy clunky shifting that meant SRAM always felt awful to me, so the later 2x10, 11 and 12 speed Shimano stuff needs way more force to downshift. The only 11 speed shifting I like is the Alfine hub - which is fantastic provided you never need to climb anything steep enough to need 1st or 2nd gear.
I love this. Trying to build up a Montebello right now and having so much trouble finding 2x mechanical drivetrains with enough range. I get it that you're trying to do something niche and I think it's great. You help so many people. Thanks for the knowledge.
I've got microshift sword set up now. Currently it's the 2-by brifters installed with the 1-by gravel adventX rear derailleur. Next I'll buy the new 2-by crank and front derailleur to widen the range both directions, but I'm waiting on a deal for a power meter. In the meantime, I get to play with the shifter that doesn't do anything while I ride. I think this setup will be peak mechanical
My 25 year old son has just ridden his 81 Dawes bike from London down to Montenegro using friction 2x8 speed without a problem. Although it was a 11-34 cassette and a 50/34 front end, do we really need more than that? Love the content Russ, as always.
@@joelv4495While not as bullet proof as one piece cranks, square taper is much better than cottered cranks. Been around forever meaning most decent retro bikes and many good new bikes will have it. Dirt cheap for quality components. 10 usd for a genuine shimano sealed bearing bottom bracket. Bad q factor? Swap the spindle length. Bad chain line? Swap the spindle length. Rubbing the frame? Swap the spindle length. My only grip is the competing standards of 68 and 73mm.
Love this topic and your presentation. Been drifting this direction for a few years. My next build with be modern/retro. Niner gravel frame fork with ultegra 11sp and mechanical brakes.
I’m currently assembling my first frame mechanical drivetrain thanks to your videos and a blog by 3T. I went with the Gevenalle brifters, GRX crank (40t chainring), SRAM xg1150 10-42 cassette.
Literally just brought a bike with electric shifting, but I will definitely go with a mechanical for a secondary bike. It just works and electric is still a bit of a test case for me.
Peak was around 1995-2000, an era when you could mix and match components freely. I ran Suntour shifters with Campy NR. A bike store owner pal ran Huret Jubilee with Shimano index shifters. Yeah, he made it work.
Perhaps my favorite thing about this era of componentry is that they were so well made, and made in such large numbers for such a long period of time, that even 30 years later, they're abundant and cheap. So they're still a viable option today, and probably will continue to be for some time.
Ergonomics of that era are absolutely terrible and you won’t change my mind on it. I recently rode a cannondale CAAD road bike from around 2000 and it was… not good. Hoods of that era and rim brakes were just very bad compared to modern bikes.
This has worked well for me for several years: Ultegra 6600 or Tiagra 4600 10 speed shifters, Sugino crankset 46-30, XT cassette 11-34, modern 105 rear derailleur (the longer cage) 105 front derailleur (both up and down pull models work fine)
Great idea, Russ; as a drivetrain tinkerer myself I’m looking forward to seeing this series. (10-speed indexed, for me: you seem to be able to hybridise to your heart’s content.)
Just completed an organized metric century Road bike ride with 530 of my closest bicycling friends, and got to say nobody was under 50 years old on the ride. Having stated that, all but two bikes that I saw were carbon fiber: one was a steel breadwinner with carbon fork, and by the way Laura, the breadwinner Team has broken up, not exactly the earth shattering event of Lennon and McCartney, but still they went their separate ways. I guess one is building bikes out of his house anyways you think friction shifting is for old grouches like most of us on this channel but truth be told most of the 530 bikes were state of the art carbon with hydraulic disc brakes and some electronic shifting but mostly mechanical. so it was good to see that people were spending their money with what they love doing and not so caught up with “keeping it real “ besides riding. ✌️
Build sheet: quality steel tubed frame with more upright geometry, Dad bike/commuter bike/all road. 2 x 11 Shimano 105 derailers, and mechanical shifters to rim brake (qr) or mechanical disc brake (thruaxle). Your choice of crankset for length and chain rings for the area you ride in. For me front at most 46/30, GRX 600 would do, and rear 11 to 36. 11 speed is durable enough and gives me more steps for the given range in the rear. With a 10 speed rear, I like 11 to 32 better than 11 to 36. I wish they made a silver series.
This is the niche content that I am on TH-cam for, and wholeheartedlly support, despite owning electric shifting, 12 speed mechanical, and a lot of other dumb types of drivetrains.
Shimano 9-speed. Full stop. 22/32/44 triple and 11-34 cassette gives 17 to 105 gear inches. All the needed range. Road and mountain shifters are fully compatible with either road or mountain derailleurs. (Brifters AND a 17 GI granny gear! No hacks required!)
Alivio 3x9. 26-36-48. 11-36. Terrific for touring - huge gear range, reliable and reasonably priced. I fear that Shimano will abandon this type of setup.
Love the rd957 mine runs 11- 36 same set up in the cranks.
Sora brifter with Deore 40/30/22 crankset and 11-34 cassette.
@@belverticale Yes I love that setup, and if for whatever reason you need even lower, you can swap the 26 right down to a 22 in a pinch, it just might need some coaxing back onto the 36.
I have this on one of my bikes. It's by far my favorite. I will say for some of my bigger off road rides I like to have hydrologic disc brakes because I feel better with them.
One year ago I built up my peak mechanical drivetrain for my all steel light touring bike. I used all new parts. It previously was a 2x, but when I saw Rivendell’s triple Silver cranks with 24-34-44 rings I knew it was for me. Equally stepped chainrings on a triple crank makes so much sense to me. It also had ramps and pins for smooth shifts. Rear derailleur is a 9-speed Shimano Sora (medium cage). Front derailleur is a “Stubby Skeleton Key” from Riv. Cassette is a 9 speed Shimano HG 11-34. Shifters are indexed Microshift 2/3 9-speed bar end shifters. It has everything I want. Super wide range (19.1-108 gear inches), inexpensive, easy to install/setup, and shift’s beautifully. Shifts as well as the 16 year old Dura-ace it replaced.
This man speaks my language...
Triples! Love ‘em.
Jip, 9sp definitely peak mechanical and 3x or 2x depending on terrain and purpose.
@@smileyvanschalkwyk9037 Yeah, love me the 9 speed. It just shifts smooth and crisp.
Considering the Riv triple or double myself. Great “peak” stuff!
I hope the Microshift Sword (10-speed) and Sword Black (9-speed) parts somehow find their way into this series.
I suspect it will not, unfortunately, because the rear derailleur is a bit of a letdown. He talks about it in this video, around the 7 minute mark.
th-cam.com/video/vs6jqJX19bM/w-d-xo.html
How could they not? They meet all the criteria, and they're not even ridiculously expensive. This channel was one of the first to review Sword back a year ago, so I look forward to seeing more about both 9 and 10 speed versions, and soon.
@@stevepalincsar4273 indeed I'm not at all doubting that they're on Russ' radar. I'm just expressing my hope that they will feature in this project. Since he emphasized that he is strictly sticking with _indexed_ shifting systems, I didn't know if the pull ratios or other engineering decisions made by Microshift lend to their derailleurs being compatible with other brands' equipment.
I will be doing my first bike build this winter, and I'm looking forward to seeing what will work with what!
Microshift has done some good work by offering 9spd gruppos.
This is the content that many non traditional or converted traditional cyclists are looking for. The unsupported and longevity of mechanical is not just an ethos or aesthetic, but a pragmatic and practical application. I think there is a market for this content and it does invite creativity. Anachronistic? A bit Luddite? Maybe, but the trade in the traditional is a business for more than a few companies. I know I will be watching.
XT 3x10 is peak mechanical for me! 40/30/22 front with 11-36 cassette. Love it! 🤠
Yes three by rules! But 3x8 is good enough for me.
I have a very similar setup now with 42/28 paired with 11-36 cassette, 10 speed. It’s so good!
I've got that with 9 speed cassette 11-34.
I bet if you could get enough traction you could climb a tree.
@@SlingsAxes some folks go touring with 100lbs of bike+gear
For me it’s Campagnolo mechanical, I ride Chorus 11 speed rim brake on 3 bikes.. l love it works beautifully.. as does all the Campy groups wil upgrade to 12 speed when I need to but no plans 😊 ❤ just my opinion.. Pete
Agree. I'm running Campagnolo 2x10 on three bikes, and I hope I'll be able to get wear parts as needed. In defense of my existing stuff, I moved to wax last summer in hopes the wear parts wear a little less quickly.
@@christopheroliver148 yeah I love campy 😍🚴🏻👍
Friction shifting worked decades for me, but there’s a place for indexing riding in urban traffic. Thanks for being thoughtful and original.
I'm using the new Growtac friction "brifters" . They work a treat.
Brilliant and long overdue. All of us have older bikes that need upgraded drive trains and this series will point the way without all the latest/greatest marketing hype from the major suppliers.
This 75 year old retro=grouch likes 3 x 8 mechanical forever!
67 year old R-G with friction bar end shifters and cantilever brakes...forever!
Sugino Triple, Sunrace 8sp cassette, Campag Ergo Front Shifter, DA barcon, Microshift RD, STX RC FD. My abomination 3x8. If the market consolidates around the cues spacing I may jump ship after all my hoarded 8sp parts wear out.
I have also come to that conclusion. The chain gets too narrow for durability after that, not to mention the Q factor.
I have 2x10 and 3x8, I much prefer the 2x10. 3x8 has a huge range but a massive overlap in gears that I just really don’t need. It is reliable though and is very inexpensive (Shimano)
40yrs here and I prefered that over 3x9 STI. Also cantilevers rule!
Still hoping drop bar Cues will be this drive train!
Myth busters for Drive trains? Yes please.
Went all-in on friction after one of my rear derailleur broke and i simply couldnt get my new one to index with my brifters.
Slapped a $6 Sunrace friction shifter on it instead out of frustration and a two hour ordeal turned into a 10 monute swap that worked seamlessly, through Unbound 2024 a week later.
Now all my stuff is friction. Super simple to shift and even easier to shop and swap parts QUICKLY. Thats important to me.
Thanks for doing this Russ! The cave of bad ideas got me started working on my bike and believing that I could modify it to fit my needs. I don’t care how many speeds, I just want the gear range to make it up the hills! Because of you I actually build a bike from scratch! And, nothing has fallen off or broken :). Not something I would have attempted without your channel.
Me too. Thanks to him and Paul Brodie I'm back to my first hobby: simple, mechanical bikes and small cc motorcycles. As simple as it should be in the first place.
Needs more Campagnolo
Yup. Very happy with 2000 era Ergo 10 though one of my bikes need new G springs.
I'm admittedly old at 74, yet still riding both XC and road. I recall my first modded bike, circa 1965, was a three speed Sturmey Archer hub fitted with a 3 speed (Suntour?) cassette, friction shifted. This somewhat acted much like a 3 x 3 with the wide ranging Sturmey Archer and the smaller incremental cassette yielding 9 possible gear combinations. Adding drop down handlebars allowed for 50+ mile days of bikepacking. Keep up the good work, Russ; simplicity is so rarely understood.
Huge fan of this message. Most all of my (40) bikes are friction shifting .. let alone cable driven. Rode an early 70s Alan road racing bicycle last weekend with a group. I was the talk of the ride.
40 Bikes! For real? Impressive.
I've actually thought about this a lot, and I think 11 speed was *my* peak era, when mechanical shifting worked so well and most of the major drivetrain components were cross compatible between brands. I'm still using Campagnolo 11 Super Record shifters with a 10-speed Centaur carbon RD and Shimano chain, cassette, front derailleur and Sugino OX crank. It all works flawlessly, and when I need to replace a part, I can pick from nearly any manufacturer.
How does the cable pull match up on that RD. I have a Campag 2000 Record group on one custom and a Chorus/Record mishmash on another. As I get older, adding a 25 to the cassette might come in handy. Also, is there a way I can stick with my five bolt hidden arm square taper Record cranks? I really do prefer the aesthetics of those to anything more recent.
Thanks for taking on this project, Russ. I'll certainly be following along.
Totally on board with your commentary, no electronic shifting, no more 1x drivetrains, and no hydraulic brakes. Well done sir.
I really never want to hear myself say, “oh no, my bike isn’t charged.”
Only similar thing might be having latex tubes, but you're somewhere there's no pump.
Yeah I'm even thinking of going for a dynamo hub so I won't even have to charge lights
My midnight special is running eagle GX with the jtek mod. All thanks to you. Keep up the good work
A combo I did recently on an older hardtail I turned into my chunky bikepacking rig - with long steep climbing being a focus - was a 2 x 11 MTB shimano hollowtech setup :
18 gear inches on the low
95 gear inches on the high
~$220
Deore M5100 2x crankset 36 x 26, $50
Deore front shifter, $20
XT Front derailer(it was a cheap option at the time) $25
SLX 11-42 cassette, $50
SLX rear derailer, $50
126 link 11 speed chain, $25
Really been looking into taking my 1x hardtail bike pack rig running a 38t chainring paired with a 11-46 11 speed to a 2x - 38/26 would be perfect.
really all I'd need is the front mech and chainring/cranks.
Mechanical is the way forward unless you are a pro. If you ride your bike a lot, for transport and for fun it's great to be able to work on it yourself and fix it. Great content for me.👍
Electronic is easier to work on than mechanical. It's way more reliable. It's amazing.
@@johnnycab8986 Nope.
Hey Russ Love it!! This is right up my alley in so many respects, dying to see the follow ups. Bring it on. Couldn't be happier to see people all about this.
I recently did a 2x7 on my gravel bike. Got a 11-42 cassette, 46/30 chainring. Using a 105 road 10-sp rear derailleur and a older shimano STI 7-sp brifter setup. The 7-sp Shimano indexed road shifters have the same cable pull as the 10-sp shimano road rear derailleurs, so work great with the 7-sp cassette. It's plenty of range for me.
it will deffo be from the 10speed mix & match era
Thank you!!! I love mechanical drive trains and I very much despise all the "Smart" electronic crap that has infiltrated bicycles industry.
Looking forward to this journey. Videos like these keep goading me into getting a 90's MTB and convert it to drop bar.
Will you be doing this for drop bars or flat bar as well?
I not only started working on my drivetrains myself but also was inspired to make my mechanical Tektro C550 to work really well because of your content. Also, light and supple tubeless setups for life!
Weird, nerdy bike shit is the best! I learned so much from the Cave of Bad Ideas… used it to build the mullet drivetrain on my Wolverine. The general knowledge has been applied to all my bike builds since then (3, so far). Wish you would include black along with silver, though…
Brilliant concept. Thank you for doing this. I will view with great interest.
Russ you gotta go 3 by. Needs only one more part than 2x with much more range.
Making a wide range campy 11 would be so awesome
FOG CUTTER!!!!
It's been my main bike for the last two years, and I've basically ignored the other 11 in my garage. Fantastic bike. I hope you'll like yours. I'm running Ltwoo's GR9 Hydraulic 1x11 group on it, with an 11-51 Deore cassette, and a 36t chainring.
Keep the “weird, nerdy, bike shit” coming. Appreciate this series concept. I’ve converted to friction shifting and don’t plan ever going back.
3x9 was peak mechanical
Bob Roll: Eight is great, nine is fine.
@@Burger1097 Rode across the states with 8 and i didn't miss having more gears.
I kind of agree. My work horse bike was 3x9 deore shifters and a mix of altus and deore derailleur has been great. I feel if your going to have a front derailleur its 3x why only 2 front cogs
And seven is heavan?
Microshift advent x and sword on both of my bikes, TRP spyres with compressionless housing on gravel bike and Hydro brakes on my mtb bikepacking setup.
Finally got my UNO shifter this week, fitted on the bike and hoping to try it out this weekend if my new seat post arrives tomorrow 👍
I'm just wanting to find the best budget friction shifting setup for my bike and get rid of the indexing all together. Save myself time and hassle. Very much looking forward to what you guys come up with throughout this series!
Deore LX 9-speed trekking from about 15 years ago is pretty nice. It was probably sold as 3x, but just pair it with a 2x crank and adjust the screws!
I believe in "never say never", that said I seriously doubt I will ever have a bike that rerquires batteries to shift.
My personal "sweet spot" is Shimano 8 or 9 speed index paired with a wide range double. I own one semi-modern bike which is an 11x2 Shimano paired with Microshift thumb shifters. I like the Microshift shifters so much I bought a pair to replace the Shimano push-button shifters on my 15 year old 9-speed fat bike.
Love it. Can’t wait for you to deep dive into this. ❤
Brilliant. Looking forward to the series.
Keep holding up the flag for a independent and fanboy-free look on bike components and focus on the stuff that really matters - bikes.
I have a few nice road bikes that are Campy 10 speed, and see no reason to change. I had a friend get killed while riding a few years ago, and just before that happened... I had several close calls as well. SO after all of this, I've been riding in the dirt. Like many of you, I want to ride my current bikes, that are fully mechanical, but also want lower hearing in the back. I also will admit that I want it to shift well, so shifting that it all over the place won't work for me. So, I'm definitely interested in your search, and totally agree... road bikes for me are all mechanical. I can barely remember to charge my phone, and see no reason to have any sort of electrical drivetrains. Ok, I'm ready.... thanks for sharing, sounds like interesting videos coming up!
Peak mechanical was 50/34 with a 11-28 cassette: we couldn't fathom needing a lower gear than that! Then we started mixing MTB cassettes and RDs and that was the sweetest hack! Then 1x came along and gave us even bigger cassettes! Then direct mount chainrings meant our chainrings no longer were bound by our cranks' BCDs. What a fun evolution it has been!
Depending how strong your legs are and how flat or hilly surroundings are. F.ex. I switched from compact into 52-39 / 11-23 (11-25 alternatively).
Thanks!
I'm supporting this series. Thanks for doing it. Your criteria are the same as mine, except I would include 8-speed, too, as it was available indexed, and most used an HG freehub. Plus the Shimano 8-speed brifters feature more metal parts, and seem to be more *repairable* than other Shimano brifters. Plus, the older setups used a lot more silver!
GX Eagle (10-50) cassette and rear mech paired with mechanical Rival 1 levers with Ratio Technology upgrade and TRP HY/RD brakes works for me great. And I can operate my dropper via the left lever :)
Just what’s needed, let keep bikes simple.
Capitalism won't let us!
(This deserves a video of it's own)
I was saying recently we missed "peak rim brake". All the pieces were in place and didn't quite come together - sidelined by disc brakes.
Peak for rim brake needs:
-A caliper that would allow for wider rims and would open wide when quick released.
-Designed for direct mount options.
-Higher leverage like Shimano Super SLR.
Clinched rim options in the wider widths with all the possible modern updates. This is too much to list and a lot is arguable.
So the caliper would be for tires over 35mm up to 40mm (42?)
Beyond that it's V-brakes or cantis.
A brake has been made in one-offs by ee/Cane Creek for Rob English and seems never intended for production.
I know Rivendell has a cheap option but missing in some features.
I can't quite take seriously Mafac Raids or copies of them.
Sorry for off-topic intrusion.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If it weren't for disc brakes on road bikes I have no doubt we would have seen caliper brakes from the majors that had clearance for 32s at least maybe a bit bigger. Probably direct mount to get clearance as well as stiffness. anyone wanting bigger than that would likely be worried about clearance for mud, stones and rocks raher than tyres... which is why cantis existed in the first place.
As it is peak (caliper) rim brake has passed us. It was Ultegra R8000. Never has there been a finer rim brake that just worked so well and 30mm clearance in direct mount too.
@@uncleants You are right on. I found out about the direct mount 30mm+ fit when I saw a custom Ti bike built for them. The fork was from a rim brake S-Works SL 6.
Peak would have been this and it continuing into even better variations.
The ability to build such a bike came and went so fast.
4 of my bikes have XT 3x10. Friction on 3 of them. That's peak for me.
Yours is one of the most enjoyable channels out there. Niche covers a surprisingly large span of us 😁
Sort of OT but I just wanted to mention that while I don't always agree with your POVs and takes, I do appreciate your voice in the community. Your recent videos on the microSHIFT Sword groupset and earlier video comparison on mech brakes (Yokozuno vs Klampers vs Growtacs) helped me with my latest build... a 2017 Salsa Fargo with the Sword 1x10 and Juin Tech GT brakes. Thank you and remember there's a thriving community eager for your knowledge and experiences.
Really clever series idea. And keep telling us about the magic of friction
I'm already down the rabbit hole and committed to 9 spd tripple, friction shifting, rim brake, prepper each month adding to my stash shhhhh don't tell any one.
I love this project!
You have my full support, and intrigue :D
You can sand/polish the aluminum dye out to get new polished aluminum parts. There might be some pores still visible but still looks good. Looking forward to the series
Shimano 105/Ultegra 9 speed with indexed/friction bar end shifters and rim brakes is my peak mechanical on my Rivendell Rambouillet.. I also have fond memories of Deore XT 7 speed as well, with its thumb shifters and cantilever brakes on my long gone Ritchey Outback from the late 80’s. I do miss that bike and set up.
Ive had 7 8 9 and 10 speed drivetrains. I must say my new xt 12 speed is the best most precise mechanical shifting Ive encountered. 30 front 10-51 rear is all the gear I'll need.
That is insane. I would be replacing the cassette at least twice a yr.
Really love and support the idea. Have signed up on Patreon. Best wishes.
I'd like to suggest you include flat bar shifters into the compatibility discussion as well. Thanks
I’m happy with Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed. But also appreciate my Di2. The smoothest and quietest system I have is 1980’s Campagnolo Victory 6 speed friction. I guess I like them all.
Cool. I love "weird nerdy bike shit." 🙂
Love the topic. I’ve been running a Sensah 11 speed srx with a 46-11 cassette and a compact 2x up front. Using a sora left shifter. It’s a little loose at small small and a little tight at big big. Very reasonable price.
Save the granny gear🚲
Russ, I'm sure I've said this before but you are doing god's work. Thank you.
lol @ "is a road bike or gravel bike faster" love how you keep calling out GCN like that. I'm here for it.
Can’t wait…what a great idea. Kudos to you and all your content from rides to hacks!
After a couple of year on hacked tourney shifter to work on 1x10 deore RD on a dropbar, it worked great but i find still limited, so i managed to get this combo: Tektro road lever+10s deore xt rd+ 3x FSA carbon crankset octalink series (22-30-44) on Deore FD and shifters retrofitted diameter on dropbar (tops) fitted on my Triban RC100. Covered the shifters with a dropbar bag. wrorks great. Deore 3x10 system is an absolute bargain these days. This channel is my great influencer in trying out bad and great ideas on my bike. Thanks PLP Team.
All in Russ! I know this might be considered niche content, but I have niche interests 😂.
Honestly you being you and making videos on things you’re actually interested in is the reason me and my partner watch and patronize the Patreon.
Keep it weird!
Terrific episode!! Looking forward to the Search for Peak Mechanical. Onboard with Patreon!! Keep up the great work and content.
This is what brought me to the channel. Excited to see what shakes out. Is this going to be all brifters? It seems like a lot of the lower end flat bar trigger shifters should stick around.
Deore 7 speed thumb shifters can be set up to work 9 speed. The first 7 SIS index.and the 2 easiest gears friction
Bring it on, we need to keep the analogue experience alive. Looking forward to what you put up - I've just recently started tinkering to create my own setup instead of off the shelf, and really enjoying it.
REALLY stoked for this - hope the aesthetic guideline is kinda' casual, so that practical/affordable options aren't entirely excluded if they are ugly. : )
SO here for this
3x7, Deore XT with the thumbshifters is peak for me because the shifters are dead simple, feels good and the shifting is nice and crisp and super reliable.
Got XT 3x8 speed, Alivio 3x9 speed, and Deore 2x10 speed. All good ❤ but the 8sp XT is reliable, super wide range, and peak quality IMHO
Yes, yes, yes. Keep it simple. Older is often better. Thank you for supporting us with the simple, mechanical, direct, reliable, consistent approach. We are not the last of the Mohegans. We are those bringing back sanity and connectedness to the manual art of riding. Let's do it.
I have ridden various upright bicycles and recumbent bikes/trikes over the years. I am currently riding an older Trek 800 Sport that was reconditioned by a local mechanic. I love this machine. It has a three by seven drive train with indexed grip shift , rim brakes, very upright riding position, ..... a Spongy Wonder seat that gave me the comfort to get back on an upright after years of riding only recumbents due to regular bicycle seats screwing up my anatomy.
Should I stay with the older Trek or would a newer hybrid be a better way to go? 3x7 or 2x8 set up? Grip shift or trigger shift? Rim brakes or disc brakes? No hydraulics or electronics for sure.
I like going down rabbit holes, so niche works for me.
3x10 first generation Shadow+ was where Shimano peaked. Still sold new as XT Touring with 48-38-26 rings. In terms of clean light shifting SRAM still haven't caught up but they're doing better than Shimano at this stage if they sorted out double upshifts in their gear shifters. For some reason Shimano decided their customers wanted the same heavy clunky shifting that meant SRAM always felt awful to me, so the later 2x10, 11 and 12 speed Shimano stuff needs way more force to downshift. The only 11 speed shifting I like is the Alfine hub - which is fantastic provided you never need to climb anything steep enough to need 1st or 2nd gear.
I love this. Trying to build up a Montebello right now and having so much trouble finding 2x mechanical drivetrains with enough range. I get it that you're trying to do something niche and I think it's great. You help so many people. Thanks for the knowledge.
I've got microshift sword set up now. Currently it's the 2-by brifters installed with the 1-by gravel adventX rear derailleur. Next I'll buy the new 2-by crank and front derailleur to widen the range both directions, but I'm waiting on a deal for a power meter. In the meantime, I get to play with the shifter that doesn't do anything while I ride. I think this setup will be peak mechanical
Looking forward to these. Want to stay mechanical forever.
My 25 year old son has just ridden his 81 Dawes bike from London down to Montenegro using friction 2x8 speed without a problem. Although it was a 11-34 cassette and a 50/34 front end, do we really need more than that? Love the content Russ, as always.
Appreciate this channel a lot. Have learned a TON.
My choices-10 speed : GRX400 Front and rear detailers + Shimano XT M771 11-36 cassette+ Tiagra duals mechanical + BB7 brakes + Cranks 46/30. 9 Speed: Acera M3000 Rear detailer + Claris front derailer+ 11-36 Chinese cassette+ Sora duals+ BB7 brakes + Cranks 46/30
I think a big hurdle will be trying to sort all the different crank standards too
Stick to square taper.
Nah, just go square taper like a true retro-grouch. Want a "gravel" group? Just get a longer BB and you're golden.
@@joelv4495While not as bullet proof as one piece cranks, square taper is much better than cottered cranks. Been around forever meaning most decent retro bikes and many good new bikes will have it. Dirt cheap for quality components. 10 usd for a genuine shimano sealed bearing bottom bracket. Bad q factor? Swap the spindle length. Bad chain line? Swap the spindle length. Rubbing the frame? Swap the spindle length. My only grip is the competing standards of 68 and 73mm.
Love this topic and your presentation. Been drifting this direction for a few years. My next build with be modern/retro. Niner gravel frame fork with ultegra 11sp and mechanical brakes.
Super excited for this series!
Great vid, thanx Russ.
I went from years of happy triple use to a double combo recommended by Russ of 42-26. Still on my Surly today....
I’m currently assembling my first frame mechanical drivetrain thanks to your videos and a blog by 3T. I went with the Gevenalle brifters, GRX crank (40t chainring), SRAM xg1150 10-42 cassette.
Literally just brought a bike with electric shifting, but I will definitely go with a mechanical for a secondary bike. It just works and electric is still a bit of a test case for me.
Love this idea. I’m huge on customizing and improving my home, but electronic shifting makes a bike something different for in my opinion
Peak was around 1995-2000, an era when you could mix and match components freely. I ran Suntour shifters with Campy NR. A bike store owner pal ran Huret Jubilee with Shimano index shifters. Yeah, he made it work.
You can do all sorts of mix-n-matching now too for it is _the_ _age_ _of_ _adapters_
You can still do that with 11 speed. Maybe because I like race bikes I reckon peak is 11 speed mech dura ace or campy.
Perhaps my favorite thing about this era of componentry is that they were so well made, and made in such large numbers for such a long period of time, that even 30 years later, they're abundant and cheap. So they're still a viable option today, and probably will continue to be for some time.
Ergonomics of that era are absolutely terrible and you won’t change my mind on it. I recently rode a cannondale CAAD road bike from around 2000 and it was… not good. Hoods of that era and rim brakes were just very bad compared to modern bikes.
@@skyroach7158new r7000 rim brakes are excellent, pretty sure your pads expires
This has worked well for me for several years:
Ultegra 6600 or Tiagra 4600 10 speed shifters,
Sugino crankset 46-30,
XT cassette 11-34,
modern 105 rear derailleur (the longer cage)
105 front derailleur (both up and down pull models work fine)
Great idea, Russ; as a drivetrain tinkerer myself I’m looking forward to seeing this series. (10-speed indexed, for me: you seem to be able to hybridise to your heart’s content.)
Just completed an organized metric century Road bike ride with 530 of my closest bicycling friends, and got to say nobody was under 50 years old on the ride. Having stated that, all but two bikes that I saw were carbon fiber: one was a steel breadwinner with carbon fork, and by the way Laura, the breadwinner Team has broken up, not exactly the earth shattering event of Lennon and McCartney, but still they went their separate ways. I guess one is building bikes out of his house anyways you think friction shifting is for old grouches like most of us on this channel but truth be told most of the 530 bikes were state of the art carbon with hydraulic disc brakes and some electronic shifting but mostly mechanical. so it was good to see that people were spending their money with what they love doing and not so caught up with “keeping it real “ besides riding. ✌️
Build sheet: quality steel tubed frame with more upright geometry, Dad bike/commuter bike/all road. 2 x 11 Shimano 105 derailers, and mechanical shifters to rim brake (qr) or mechanical disc brake (thruaxle). Your choice of crankset for length and chain rings for the area you ride in. For me front at most 46/30, GRX 600 would do, and rear 11 to 36. 11 speed is durable enough and gives me more steps for the given range in the rear. With a 10 speed rear, I like 11 to 32 better than 11 to 36. I wish they made a silver series.
Off the shelf salsa vaya comes close in specs
This is the niche content that I am on TH-cam for, and wholeheartedlly support, despite owning electric shifting, 12 speed mechanical, and a lot of other dumb types of drivetrains.