Classical Music Is Too White & Male
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- And apparently not a genre either.
Adam Neely's video: • Music Theory and White...
The albums shown on screen at one point are Kelly Moran's Ultraviolet, Okkyung Lee's Yeo-Neun, M. Lamar & Hunter Hunt Hendrix's Funeral Doom Spiritual, and James Ferraro's Requiem for Recycled Earth.
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Beethoven literally said he was inspired by Playboi Carti to make music.
Trust he told me himself
Beethoven ripped him off 😤
exactly. Mozart also said in an interview he was inspired by Lil Uzi
Horse and buggy parked outside, it's crimson like wine
Trap preceded classical, we all know this and I'm sick of people pretending they don't.
Traditional Chinese music is too Chinese and too traditional.
They need more black voices or something, I dont know.
Either way I certainly can't wait to hear Post Traditional Chinese music.
Orchestra music is too orchestral. Needs more electric guitar.
Traditional hindustani music is too Indian and too traditional
@@g2theartist **flashbacks to that one video of Yngwee Malmsteen**
@@g2theartist That's a good point actually, though
A real human unironically conceived this idea, unironically found it rational, unironically typed it up on Twitter and unironically hit the send button.
I cling to the hope that this was a troll
Twitter moment
>Twitter
How are you suprised?
It is funny to assume these bottom-feeders who live and breath via cancelling random people online, to have any sufficient level of intelligence or common sense.
Yes, people have opinions and some of them are stupid
classical is mostly old european music, ofc there's only white guys
Yes, but that needs to CHANGE!!!
@@colinrussell2017 not to be a dick, but instead of complaining abt it, do it yourself, change starts with you
Exactly, that first tweet was so dumb and nonsensical.
@@colinrussell2017
I mean... Japanese, Koreans and Chinese already started getting into Classical music in this era. Best examples to see their Classical soundtracks are in some of their movies, TV shows and video games.
If you want Black folks to start producing Classical music, then maybe let/tell them to listen to dozens of Classical masterpieces by various composers, then maybe they could appreciate them enough to start their own.
@@ciaranwright4361 Was Colin Russell being sarcastic?
This is legit the same level as saying that Kenyan folk music is too Black and Afrocentric lol
"You like Huey Lewis and the News?"
"Nah, too black sounding for me."
@@dde1fy Literally just semantics, I can make the same comparison with say, Soukous, a dance music from the Congo... That doesn't have 'Congo' or 'Africa' in the name, it's still 100% Sub-Saharan African though. You're fucking ridiculous dude.
@@dde1fy the whole concept of "classic" is very much a product of a certain time (the XVIIIth century) and place (western europe). A classic as some unchangable, unmovable piece of work that stands the taste of time and remains ad perpetuum in platonic perfection doesn't collide well with most of the rest of the world more oral traditions, since it's mostly based around the idea of permanence and inmutability, and the perfection of the act of "putting it down" (best way i could think of explaining it, sorry). either by writing it, like a play, a book, a poem or in this case a piece of music, or by constructing it like a building or a garden. There's also the whole idea of the "author", which clashes violently with the more annonymous and collective nature of most of the rest of the world's cultural heritage.
There's a lot of super interesting essays and thesis written about how euro-centrism tried and failed to apply this very particular concept onto the rest of the world's "classics" and how all those experiments turned out.
@@dde1fyIn Kenya, they call kenyan folk music folk music. In Scandinavia, when you say folk music you mean scandinavian folk music. In Japan, when you say folk music you mean japanese folk music.
The reason classical music only refers to Europeans music is because that's where it was invented, and the only thing it encompasses. It's European music. Why does that make you mad?
@@marcopivetta7796 It's the classical era of arts/music, following the Boroque era. Not, like, classic like that though
Unless I am misinterpreting what you're saying.
Beethoven was literally deaf I don’t think he can hear the haters
@@ceesan5605 no
@@ceesan5605 I honestly don't give a shit either way.
Smetcalf 03
Towards the end of his life he was. What many don’t know about him is that he was of Moorish descent, which means that one of the biggest European composers in all of history would have had a hyphen
Smetcalf 03
I wouldn’t stake my reputation on this though, and until DNA tests are done, it’s only a theory due to his somewhat swarthy skin
@̧ rap has great stuff wym
Me and my white supremacist friends be jamming to Bach all the time.
Me and my gang of national socialist ruffians prefer Wagner
Me and my fascist buddies are always vibin to some Vivaldi
Me and my komrades listening to Prokofiev
Me and my misogynistic pals be enjoying those sweet handel melodies
Me and my neckbeard couch sinkers love us some Mahler
That tweet has to be a troll
It’s a Twitter comment, there’s like a 60/40 chance they’re just stupid
Its Twitter. Probably not
It's from a woke nutjob, so it's probably not satire.
Definately not
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if people sent..."original" takes that they don't believe in just to be on the show at this point
I feel like this is kind of a redundant argument, classical isn't a "genre," it's a period constructed by historians to demarcate certain compositional trends and techniques found in (mostly) 18th century Europe, like "baroque" in the 17th century and "romantic" in the 19th. It just happens that most of the people writing music in 18th century Europe were white and male because non-whites and non-males weren't allowed to participate in artistic life in an equal capacity.
Precisely.
Might as well be a genre as well because of everyone following those trends.
In which case, Boroque and Romantic can be as well.
@@isetmfriendsofire if we don’t put all modern songs from the last 80 years in a genre because they follow the strophe - refrain - strophe - refrain - bridge - refrain rule or some variation of it we shouldn’t be so ignorant to treat epochs of music as a genre
Were there a massive number of non-whites in Europe at that time? They’re a minority in Europe now, but I imagine they were an even smaller minority back then.
@@katybee3891 Well, I mean, there are standards of the sound of the era, and for the convenience of a genre, you find music that shares a lot of sound qualities. The whole topic of genre is arbitrary anyway, so it wouldn't be hard to say "This is classical, like, from the era, but doesn't really fit into how we are defining it as a genre"
Man these mini lets argues are cool. You should try combining a few of them into one video. Almost like a compilation of several hot takes that you answer all in a row. Something like, 10-15 minutes long maybe? You know full of multiple different questions. That’d be pretty cool
That's a crazy idea bro
I like to replay that bit because I use the sound of him stringing the guitar as ASMR. I like the sound idk why
At least we get 5x the bass licks in this format
@@lolm2corybaxter326 exactly
@@natechenry sorry to be that guy but its a bass 😔
"The hate us because they ain't us" -Beethoven
they hate us 'cause they anus
- Bach
Classical music was literally invented by Lil b though?...
Who could forget legendary compositions such as "Fuck Kd"?
Based.
@@dqarqeer8603 i also can't say based anymore without it having obscure political connotations :(
Cowboys riding horses in Illinois is an unironic masterpeice
TYBG
What a meaningless criticism. Putting a blanket over all of Europe and just calling it "white" completely downplays the diversity of the continent. Imagine criticizing all of the culture of China, Japan, Thailand, Korea, etc. by saying it focuses too much on "asianness". This is criminally reductive.
Yes, too much asianness in asia. They should really stop that.
*cough* marxism *cough*
Niggas thinking that Spaniards, Scots, Serbs, Swedes and Swabians are the same thing.
@@matthewwalsh974 what?
@@matthewwalsh974 The fuck does a economic system have to do with a dumb criticism
I'm not surprised that the first statement is from Twitter
All of these arguments are from twitter lmfao
@@DMVGREY I think Nut Master meant the content of the post accurately reflects the toxic platform it came from.
It’s recycled Adam Neely talking pt
They really thought they were doing something with that take. Embarrassing
i'd say it's embarassing that white ppl in these comments think they really made points lol
All they were showing is they hate white men
When you put race in the issue everyone goes apeshit. Why can't we just acknowledge the bigger issue which is the fact that there's more to music than the theory most people know? If we address that at least everyone wins.
@@DiabolicalPaperClip dude you’ve showed yourself in this entire comment section to be a laughable joke. You hate white people, just admit it and scram already.
Let’s Argue: 6ix9ine’s music is too kid-friendly to be enjoyable
In the sense that middle schoolers listen to that, then yeah
His song titles do sound like elementary school insults
He's also too much into kids.
@@ew275x Ong that’s why he got in trouble being too kid friendly
Let's agree*
It amazes me that people can post questions like that on the internet while being dead serious.
It's cause they don't fucking go outside.
@@reelseri0us629 and that’s why we’re all here 😂😂
I thought it was bit much at first too, but I think it makes more sense when you remember that contemporary classical music is a thing, lol. I don't know for sure what they meant but I have to assume they were saying that the contemporary classical music scene is still too white and male, cause when talking about 18th century and 19th century classical it just doesn't make sense. Although there definitely were some classical composers back in the day who were women and Poc that don't get much attention, so it's an understandable grievance to say they should be studied more even if they were vastly outnumbered.
Welcome to the shit hole of the internet. We like to call it Twitter.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 out of touch with reality
Fantano, putting on a 18th century powdered wig and flailing a conductor’s baton around for the entire video does not count as a constructive review.
yeah the "booga booga" wasn't necessary for his "non-european" example either..
the constant mentioning of “classical is the only real genre” was not appreciated
lmfao my goofy-ass brain pictured melon orchestrating Beethoven's fifth with the utmost dramatic emotion and energy.
@@TheEpicImpaler I would absolutely watch that
i'm sure she thought her tweet was dripping with virtue, but the sentence, "IT focuses way too much on white men, and ends up sectioning off other music styles in order to uphold white supremacist values" makes zero sense. Who is this "it"? Classical music? I didn't realise a genre had a personality and the ability to focus too much on people of a certain skin colour and gender. And "classical music" sections off other styles? It is a style in of itself, how can a style section off other styles? And where is this racist motivation? Who is forcing people to like Schubert, Beethoven and Mozart over whatever non-white, non-man composers she wants to be relevant? Is it an evil spirit? Is it the KKK hypnotising people? What is she talking about?
YES
Facts, such a dumb comment
Music academia, most likely. An "it" institution that used and still uses the standard of white european classical music as the only language to teach a variety of music styles from other cultures, and insists on teaching the history of Contemporary music from the perspective that "first came classical music, and everything else followed suit"
I kinda get what she was saying but all in all she was reaching a bit
The poorly laid out thought, was probs in the regards of the ethos/motives behind the institutions that uphold classical & its musical theory as the pinnacle of high-art in the classroom, which is much of Adam Neelys video. Similar to the "dead-white-male" syndrome of visual arts curriculum, both well documented & analyzed phenomenons that contemporary educators seek to fix. _Your comments a bit disingenuous, no?_
oH nO pEoPle iN EuRoPe mADe sOme MuSIc AnD mOsT oF tHeM aRe whITe oH nO
"Classical music is still too white"
Asian classical musicians nowadays: Hey man wtf... :(
Beethoven was heavily Inspired by Lil Xan's total Xanarchy
Thank you, 43rd President of the United States George W Bush.
There's plenty of diversity within classical music, Americans just have a narrow view of the word. Mozart was Austrian, Beethoven was German, Dvorak was Czech, Erik Satie was French, Chopin was Polish, and so on and so forth. Europe isn't a country.
I feel like classical music explored tonality and harmony to such a great extent that by the early 20th century there was nowhere to go, and we're still suffering from that today because most classical music is either atonal and has no popular appeal, or is just pop chords played by an orchestra. People forget that almost all "jazz chords" can be found in classical music from decades prior.
I completely agree. Rachmaninoff's music had such lyricism and individuality, and had jazz woven throughout. Mahler was big and triumphant, and both were staunch Romantics, and had torn away from the redundancies of Mozart or Beethoven (getting lazy after the openings or repeating bars throughout the piece more than twice), but also weren't atonal and thus losing some form of lyricism and individuality. The modernists really fucked themselves by focusing only on evolving "technique" instead of focusing on making good, beautiful music. But idk, maybe I'm just not white or privileged enough to like anything the modernists made.
Nah the classics bang
Beethoven >>>> Carti 💯💯💯💯
Bruh you’re racist now
@@vanillakilla23 i did a turd last night that was more creative than anything on Whole Lotta Red
@@nicholasmichalfaul946 WLR wasn’t that bad lol. It was just overhyped… so people were thinking it was gonna be a transcendent album when it actually was just decent.
You can't just claim to have "discovered" classical music, Anthony
Yeah, get in line
Christophanthony Columbantano
I, Elijah S. Ford discovered America on February 22nd, 2005. I discovered it when I was born there. I was immediately incredibly bored by it, so I fell asleep.
Or "colonized" smh
L take
It's like saying rap isn't a genre because its too black focused. Its 100% bs
Except the top selling rapper is white so no one would ever say that
What about my boy Tom McDonald
Or like saying Latin music isn’t a genre because it’s too Hispanic focused.
@Ivory_ Lagiacrus_YT uh, okay I guess?
@Ivory_ Lagiacrus_YT no one’s ever called me a chad before, so this title is relatively quite new to me. However, I’ve always considered myself one whilst being introspective.
LET'S ARGUE: Hot takes from Twitter about there being 'too many white males' and equating that with white supremacy, should not be given the time of day
Totally agree they are repetitive and lame, and they always end with the words white supremacy like something scripted
@@beatrixxxkiddo Exactly. I swear, woke people use the same words all the time. It's like they were all told by their English teacher to write something using the 10 or so vocabulary words of the month
@@8nicopink868 not to mention the “too much white” argument is usually, and I mean USUALLY, made by white people. Like you can smell the self-hatred. It’s like if a Crocodile hated other crocodiles because they weren’t alligators.
@@DarkSpartanFTW So true! Meanwhile I'm latina and I find white guilt really pathetic 🙄
i feel like this was ten minutes longer but anthony cut himself off before delving into subgenres because he cant help himself
I think he's admitted he doesn't know much about classical before though.
He did delve into the subgenres tho
Nope seems to be all behind a pay wall coz moneys good
classical music is and has always been inferior to the Mario Kart Wii soundtrack
The Mario Kart Wii soundtrack had some elite songs fr.
All jokes aside Coconut Mall fucking slaps
@@BubblesTheBard I think Rainbow Road, DK Snow mountain (forgot the name lol) have better songs, but Mario Kart Wii really shines in it’s menu music, ending music, etc.
@@TokyoBalletReprise Mario Kart has never had bad music imo. I'd love to hear Melon drop a top 5 or top 10 video game soundtracks but he never will
Nintendo has a deep, dark history of Japanese programmers working for a Japanese company appropriating white protagonists in its products
The people writing and performing contemporary classical music are actually quite a diverse bunch, so the issue of classical music being too white and too male really ties into the widespread rejection of any classical music written after 1940
Corey Feldman invented the piano, and Doug Walker invented the violin.
Kid Cudi invented Country
Lil Yachty invented the cello.
Tom Macdonald invented the triangle
I refuse to believe that the first argument is an actual belief that people have, otherwise I have lost hope for society.
It is. Fairly commonly believed on the left actually.
I think it’s the first ever Fantano video about Classical music. It can be nice to get a bit more, including maybe one video of simply Fabtano’s general basic thoughts and feelings regarding classical music
Anthony hates my mom
Fantano said that he cant get into classical music which is why he doesnt review it
@@thetoucher9676 I mean, he has reviewed albums that he classifies as Classical music in the description. Like Tim Hecker's Virgins.
What a literally racist take.
Imagine if someone tweeted "Soul music is too black"
it actually is!
My point didn't come across too well in the tweet, but I mean that we focus too much on European classical music. Which heavily favors a world view that white people made fundamentally the best music
@@shuiichii5517 if it focuses on the truth, whats the issue then?
@@shuiichii5517 Then stop living in white countries.
@@shuiichii5517 Classical music is the term used for old European Music.
Someone complaining that classical music is too white is like complaining that afrobeat music is too black. No shit, it's white. It's a European style of music.
Everyday I'm more convinced that Fantano hates music but loves everything else.
Like, most people would hear Beethoven and love the music while Fantano would try to analyze it's impact on socio economics and the rise of of prices or some shit like that. Those who see on music more than it, just pretend to.
Here is a list of great composers who are of color and or female: William Grant Still, Olly Wilson, Florence Price, Duke Ellington, Billy Strayhorn, Alvin Singelton, Luther Henderson, Anthony Davis, Terence Blanchard, Scott Joplin, William Levi Dawson, Samuel Coleridge-Taylor, Julius Eastman, Joseph Bologne, George Walker, Jessie Montgomery, Margaret Bonds, Amy Beach, Joan Tower, Ellen Taffe Zwilich, Hildegard von Bingen, Jennifer Higdon, Francesca Caccini, Barbara Strozzi, Isabella Leonarda, Louise Farrenc, Lily Boulanger, Fanny Mendelsohn, Clara Schumann, Teresa Carreño, Cẽcile Chaminade, Rebecca Clarke, Germain Tailleferre, Ethel Smith, Judith Weir, etc………..The list goes on in both categories.
SHHHHHHHHHH THEY WERE COLONIZED MAAAAAAAAAAAATE
One classical female artist that deserves more credit is Clara Schumann, My personal favorite piece by her is "Romance op.11 no.1 in e flat minor" played by pianist Tomer Lev :)
Lili Boulanger, Germaine Tailleferre, Sofia Gubaidulina and Kate Soper are also neat composers.
mel bonis and amy beach too
@@DiAlexisPimentel dont forget fanny mendelssohn
@@emrekalis5831 Amy Beach is boring. Try Charles Ives instead.
Maybe its super white, but its also very calming after a long day of online school
No shit, it's fucking 18th century European music, like how can anyone even entertain that tweet as if it's an actual opinion lol
@@hightower2277 it’s like saying hip pop “upholds black supremacist values” because it was invented by black people and is mainly comprised of black people, just a really weird take, like they could just say they don’t like the genre instead of making it into some weird race thing and making weird claims about it as a genre
@@benjaminramsey498 fr that shit makes me tremble it goes hard
@@jpeg204 not really. watch that Adam Nelly vid before you get butthurt
Nah, it just means you're a Nazi.
"Hiphop music is too black male and urban"
"Reggae music is too Jamaican male centric"
Etc etc etc
That guitar intro was pretty good
Bruh if that's not a guitar then what the fuck is it
@Ivory_ Lagiacrus_YT that’s a kazoo, actually
@Ivory_ Lagiacrus_YT Bro that's cymbals bro
@Ivory_ Lagiacrus_YT yo what? You've both lost your mind. Just appreciate his singing in the intro thank you
That was a piano with fishing lines for strings you morons
You guys are clearly mistaken, it was a Roland TB-303.
NAHRE SOL
Yessir
Hi
To say that classical is a strictly European idea is an outright lie, there's classical music for every culture
>mfw every genre of music isn’t pioneered by black lesbian women
What time is it?
Marijan Karaula approximately 12am as I’m writing this
The Moonlight Sonata does NOT need updating. It is timeless. The emotion it invokes is as relevant today as the day it was written. Label him whatever you want. Beethoven was a tortured genius.
Beethoven himself remarked that he had "written much better things than the c# minor sonata".
And he wasn't depressed most of the time. Accounts from his contemporaries show that he was quite a humorous person.
not sure how he was "tortured". Chopin and schumann are better examples of that.
Twitter user discovered that people living in eras in which racism and sexism were the norm created music as well 😲
@@Pax_Mayn3 just say you hate women and think they get everyone for free dude, stop hiding the fact that you can't get laid
@@Pax_Mayn3 just say you are misogynistic and go. disgusting.
@@NoConsequenc3 what did he say?. I'm late to the conversation
@@NoConsequenc3 his comment is gone, and I will never get to see what he said😔
Black composers to check out: Adolphus Hailstork, William Grant Still, Florence Price, Margaret Bonds, Undine Smith Moore, George Walker, Ulysses Kay, Jessie Montgomery, Daijana Wallace, Tyson Davis
Also, add Joseph Bologne.
Hurrah and more power to them.
Problem is when the roles are reversed everyone screams "cultural appropriation".
“Think about how dumb the average person is, now think about how half of the population are dumber than that.” - George Carlin
Let's agree: the person who tweeted that is clearly from the USA and does not have a grasp on the fact that in the outside world there are plenty of cultures which are not inherently the same just because the people are white. Also, the fact that classical music is not necessarily the main focus nowadays is the real reason why classical music made by women and POC is not being noticed and why the genre's associated with the famous composers from centuries ago when it was more popular.
They can’t accept that their forefathers were truly despicable people even by the standards of the time they were living in. Were Europeans at the time racist? Probably. As bad as the Americans? Certainly not.
@@Angels510 Nazi Germany , anyone?
What's the difference between "artists of color", and "colored artists"? Can we just be human beings, appreciate each other for our talents and abilities, and quit obsessing about someone's skin tone?
No some people with no life and good for nothing jobs will have nothing to do
As long as racism exists, color blindness is merely *colorism* blindness. White privilege still exists.
The thing is, “classical music” is already a generalization of various European cultures, eras and genres. In reality every culture has its own cultural classical music. Sadly the umbrella term of “classical” has been monopolized by Europe. The true scope on a global scale is m a s s i v e.
The notes and scales we use today are called "western music theory" and emerged from Christian church music. Any music that uses the western scale is essentially a biproduct of classical music which was a biproduct of what came before. That is why it is simply referred to as classical, all other music is based on it. Now there are some styles that do not utilize western theory and can therefore be considered a separate development. But because these styles are less common, they are often specified with the name of the culture they emerged from such as "Chinese guzheng music". Basically, classical is called classical because it is the precursor to almost all music that exists today.
BTW this is extremely simplified, obviously western music probably predates Christianity but Christian music was the first time it was approached in a systematic way and with comprehensive records that let others build on it, so it is considered the origin of the modern musical theory and tradition.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
@@ANJROTmania The vague naming just perpetuates the idea that white men ruled every facet of history, when all there is that white men just had their side of history written and spread the most.
Colorism and colonial mentality (very much so prevalent in my country) still have lasting effects on many countries even hundred year after.
Adding terms like "Western" (albeit making it wordier and semantic-ish) might just be one of the things to start acknowledging and correcting propaganda in the minds of people.
@@cheesecakelasagna Black men never called white men white men just men, until they learned to call white men white men? No...just no, stop...colorism is a thing but it wasn't "invented" or "applied strictly by" white men.
Mozart's favourite tune was W.A.P. by Cardwig Van Bootycheeks.
me: humans aren't THAT dumb
humans: classical music is racist
Go watch the Adam Neely video he mentioned. There's a connection between classical music and white supremacy.
@@sandearcubus9299 at this point everithing created by Europeans pass 1492 is connected to white supremacy
@@kaiser4883 watch the video
@@kaiser4883 I mean, yes pretty much. Lots of racist shit happened and is still happening.
The idea that classical music is somehow the standard music, the superior genre is a very racist one.
I guess this makes me a black woman.
Oh my gawd chaaaaad
@@MyBeautifulDarkTwistedFantasy6 chad
@@MyBeautifulDarkTwistedFantasy6 hi greatest rap album of all time, how are you today?
@@spaceghostrari1922 im good.
@@spaceghostrari1922 Angelic 2 The Core says hello 🙄🤚 stop the cap
"It should have stayed that way" Umm melon?
This tweet is why people hate “the left”. Jesus Christ we are cancelling classical music now?
Not 'the left', probably an American liberal. Signed, a left wing classical guitarist.
We’re not “cancelling” anything, instead we’re just saying that it’s important to reckon with the history of classical music. Adam Neely has a good video called “music theory and white supremacy” which is a good watch if you have the time that goes in depth on how some aspects of (european) classical music were used to further white supremacy.
@@citizensnips2348 This is some liberal sounding shit, yes. As if the left even existed in the US.
@@TooManyEditsProductions I rather cut my balls off then listen to someone try to convince me that a certain era of music is literally Hitler.
@@TooManyEditsProductions that doesn't make it in and of itself white supremacist.
Imagine somebody saying African Music is black supremacist
90's rap is to black we need more chineese DIVERSITY IN IT!!!!
@Luke B Japanese people are obsessed with jazz (there are jazz bars here where you aren’t allowed to speak while the band is playing) so loving hip hop is a logical byproduct.
This argument devalues the geniuses of the genre.
Yeah but you could argue other geniuses who were ignored at the time should have more focus put on them. There were a few female composers and a few black composers at the time who are still not talked about much today. Also no amount of slightly annoying tweets is gonna nock Beethoven or Mozart off their pedestal lol, you're kinda clutching your pearls over nothing.
@@2122Hellfire could ya name them? i haven't heard of any myself and am curious :D
@@kimehrenschiold1693 Hildegard of Bingen was a big one in medieval formal music, godmother of formal Gregorian Chant
I sorta vibe with the first part of the statement but I don't think the original tweet worded it very well. Classical music shouldn't be a genre term because if you get into "classical" much at all you find out the term itself only refers to music made during a period of time known as the classical period. Prior to that you have medieval and baroque and following that you have romantic and 20th century, and that's just the tip of the ice berg. So it's not exactly equivalent to calling all the music from Little Richard to Daughters "rock," because the term rock has never been tied to a specific time period.
However there's the obvious question of, "well if we're not going to refer to everyone from Hildegard Von Bingen to John Williams as classical because that term refers to stuff from the time of Mozart and Beethoven, what are we going to call it?" And the question doesn't have an obvious answer. First off, I can't really think of a word that would be able to arch over all of those different time periods gracefully, and second off even if I could think of such a word, how do you get people to actually start using it when calling everything that sounds "classical" to them classical is so much easier than learning a new term and definition? So I think, despite the inaccuracy of the term, we're probably stuck with it... but hey, genre names have worse problems. Just look at "alternative."
Well said.
yeah, guess we have to make a time machine and drop thousands of pianos on africans in hope some of them will learn to play it
I mean, western classical music traces it's origins back to Ancient egyptian orchestral music. So Africans played a pretty big role anyways.
@@2122Hellfire Agreed, fellow breadtuber
It’s helping me get hw done rn Idc. College is fuckin hard.
No one said listening to the music is white supremacist lmao.
@@juliusseizure591 I only commented to the title of the video lol. I know no one is calling it that I’m just making a joke
@@willtimme3411 Gotcha
Wait till you get into work lol
Just a pro tip if you don't know already: I wouldn't listen to or believe anything, in the area of social issues or politics, that those professors tell you.
The more crazy shit like this I see the happier I am because its demonstrating to increasing numbers of people just how absurd and sociopathic critical race theory and related ideologies are
define critical race theory
@@auzzgames is it not obvious what is meant by that? the exact demarcation of what I am pointing to is totally irrelevant. Its obvious what the rough set of ideas I am referring to is. Which is enough for the purposes of what I'm saying.
@@auzzgames bro define some bitches
@@James-iz9qb If you know what it is, then what is it?
@@auzzgames ok so you were asking the question because you think that people who talk about critical race theory are just parroting a term they don't understand- because they are in a bubble and not thinking?
I never knew that Lil Xan was a ghost writer for Mozart.
There's no limit on how far people will go to turn anything and everything into a conversation about race. It's actually starting to be funny.
Their next tweet must have been "soldiers in WW1 didn't properly acknowledge that they were predominantly white europeans". What is the end game for these types of people? Yes, we can acknowledge that POC and women didn't get to play the most key roles in periods before they weren't recognized as property, but what good does this do now? Do we cancel Bach because of it? It's not only a moot point but it's a cultural smudging of important benchmarks and events that happened before the world went woke. I champion everyone being treated equally and properly by our governmental systems and the general public, but reaching back hundreds of years to try and make a statement about the standards of music as we see them currently is so stupid. These are the people giving actual progressive minded people a bad name.
quick, lets go tear down another Abraham Lincoln statue
@Luke B that's exactly what I'm saying. What is the goal or even just the thought process behind this? If you are competent enough to make these kinds of assertions about classical music then how are you not competent enough to realize that even though history is filled with racism/sexism/bigotry/etc it is also filled with good things that lead to the progress of government AND culture? The ironic part about it is that the thought process is just as backwards and regressive as the ideas of actual bigots.
Beethoven’s music offends me! REEEEEEEE
Another hot take that is absolutely...reeeeeeaaaaching.
There’s no “Let’s Argue” in the title, so I can only assume you are stating facts. I now know that classical music is too white and male. Thanks for the lesson!
Go watch the Adam Neely video, if you haven't, good watch!
Fellas is it racist to go to the opera?
Yes.
The Big Day obviously inspired Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.
That bro made the ladies swoon like Chance loves his wife.
Complaining that classical music is too white and male is like complaining that Hip Hop is too black and male. Classical music *is* white music. It originated in Western Europe, and most of the great composers were lilly white men: Mozart, blond haired, blue eyed. Wagner, blond hair, green eyed. Brahms, blond hair, blue eyes. Max Bruch, blond hair brown eyes. And yes, Classical Music is a reflexion of white European culture. Wagner constantly criticized Mendelssohn, who was Jewish, for "biting", because Wagner considered that music was an extension of a people's culture, which in it's essence relfects the tastes of a race. And in case you are wondering, no, Beethoven was not black. He was a swarthy western German, like many you see in Bonn and Bavaria today.
All the outrage of Classical Music being too white and male comes from the ideology of "woke" American liberalism, which tries to deny Caucasians/European of any accomplshments on the grouns that the White Man just steals other cultures. This is asinine. I am non-white(my maternal grandmother is Native America and my paternal great-grandfather was black), but I have no problem admitting that Classical Music is white. Why are people so salty about this?
Holy shit dude learn how to spell before going on a tirade over the most milk toast taken history
@@fb9552 Sure, because spelling is such a sign of intelligence, with spell-checkers and all, right? I could stop at this, but I will gor further: English is not my first language. I did not make spelling mistakes, you dummy. I typed a lot, and my fingers slipped on the keyboard.
And everything I wrote are historical facts. Go cry some more.
The average Twitter user suffers from idiocracy.
@@fb9552 yeah i gave up half way
@@lewisbaitup6352 That's what happens when you lack a brain.
Hans eisler in one of his interviews talked about the correlation between the rise of capitalism and the prominence of lyricless music. As in,he believes that with the rise of new capitalistic hegemony the Idea that music without any lyrics (something that is often associated with classical music) us somehow superior and sublime than actual lyrical music.
Traditional African drum circles are too african and too traditional.
Yeah... i think this person wants a more diverse representation for NEO-CLASSICAL artists. Classical music is white because... its literally from europe lol.
but still... sometimes its not a matter of lack of representation, its a lack of PARTICIPATION. there are just more white men composing *sigh*
@@owenreel3916 So?
@@AmandaFromWisconsin So......? Whats your question
One conductor I know works with great enthusiasm to program and champion works that are by composers who are female. There are some amazing works by the likes of Clara Schumann, Kaija Saariaho and Errolyn Warren for example.
‘Classical Music’ tends to be used as a broad definition for a lot of music that has many different catalogues. The range of works and explorations that occurred in the late 19th to 20th century with neo-classicism, Impressionism, expressionism and a whole load of other isms is astonishing and well worth looking into if this kind of music is your thing.
We need PrOgReSsIvE ClAsSiCaL mUsIc.
Yeah, let's do 15/16th "For Elise" and microtonal "Moonlight Sonata"!
Do you mean Prokofiev?
@man with square mustache sure Hitler
Well, no women there, because at the time they had no equal eights, duh. As for being “too white” I just feel like there was no necessity to differentiate between European and non European music, until the world became more globalized. So I guess maybe the extra distinction could be needed, so we call it “European Classical Music”? Oh, and fyi, Renaissance Europe was mostly white. It’s not something we can change, and it doesn’t make the music bad. I’m sure music of the same period from other parts of the world is called something else. And I’m sure nobody will call it out for being “not white enough”
That is a Europe centric view, I just laid out, but that’s because I am in Europe and we’re all speaking a European language here, discussing western aka European culture
Classical (capital C to be clear) music may not be a genre in the modern sense of the word but that doesn't mean it's in any way a nebulous term. like it's a very clearly defined period of history with very well-defined and distinct musical characteristics. glad to see Adam Neely's video getting some more attention that should be mandatory viewing in all music schools
prog classical
Dark prog
Heavy classical
This whole time I been jamming to “Gymnopedie No. 1” I didn’t know I was spreading the seed of hate and discrimination
Saying that Classical European music is too “White-Centric” is like saying that Traditional African Folk music doesn’t have enough White Composers or Reggae is exclusionary to Eskimos/Inuit people. Apples and Softballs, my friend...
classical music isn't overwhelmingly white. EUROPEAN classical music is overwhelmingly white.
Bc in europe the majority of the population is white duuh
@@thebeesknees2503 I know that's my point
Anyone know what those 4 album covers that came up when he talked about modernizing/diversifying classical music were?
it's in the description.
My personal videogames ost are :
1- The legend of Zelda ocarina of time
2- Donkey Kong Country 2
3- Shadow of the Colossus
4- Super Mario Galaxy 2
5- Metal Slug 5
6- Castlevania. symphony of the night
7- Perfect Dark
8- Megaman X
9- F- Zero x
10- Super mario bros 3
Cool, Ill just hop in my time machine and make them women
Could you imagine, Mozart with big fucking mommy milkers? He'd look like that vampire chick from RE 8. God damn please go back and make Mozart a woman.
@@lucasbaum2228 hahhaha wtf
Their argument was that classical isn't a genre because it's genre saturated with white men. 😂 Okay there
@W 9797 bruh I'm not arguing with a serial number, fuck outta here 😂
To be fair, if someone took that argument and applied it to Pop (minus the white n male part) it would be valid, as what makes Pop music Pop isn't any shared aesthetic but just whatever music or sound of the time is formulaic enough to get the song popular.
But Beethoven was black tho
real ones know
You're joking right? That's been debunked many times. How could someone make a masterwork painting of him just by imagining what a black man would look like white and then paint it with all the facial features of a white man flawlessly? Also there's literally historical evidence that he was white.
UNDOUBTEDLY
@@aristotleasparaguspodcast1129 relax. we have no idea of knowing. all we got is his music 😎👍
@@aristotleasparaguspodcast1129 No ur wrong. Beethoven was an African warlord covered in white face.
Piss Warm Take-
I really believe that Mindless Self Indulgence should be considered as Proto-Hyper Pop. Though I agree that sonically their sound is not exactly in the same vein of the likes of 100 Gecs Etc.. But they truly share the concept, and the general spirit, of making super melodic hook-heavy pop songs and then take it apart and bring it all to a wild and quirky extreme while blending as many genres as possible, which are generally the same genres Hyper Pop is blending today- Hip Hop, Metal and Heavy Electronic music. With all the recent talk and rising popularity of the genera I don't think I ever heard them being mentioned.
*genre
In rainbows is the best album of the past 20 years. Fight me.
I like how MBDTF is the saying this
*ever
You are my favorite album ever so Im not going to disagree with you.
It is the best album by the best Can clone.
No, Nina Simone's Pastel Blues is.
These 3.5 minutes feels more useful than that entire Neely video
Not being able to create art, they could not understand art. And so they chose to burn everything that reminded them of their inability to transcend human tribalism and mediocrity
Love the comments on this video. They are all made by people who didn't watch the 4 minute video above nor the fantastic video by Adam Neely mentioned. I just love the internet's lack of reading comprehension.
Watched every second of both this one and Neely's overlong, thinly-veiled political left-wing race-realist rant. If I'm supposed to believe that it's only continuing in the classical framework "in our post-Floyd moment," or whatever it is you racists say, that's supposed to be "white supremacist," a term that none of you understand in ANY historical context, then I still think the comments here are both appropriate and hilarious. But maybe I didn't "read" the videos hard enough.
Let's not forget how your lot bleated about cultural appropriation and colonization any time Eminem or Iggy Azalea got a hit. It couldn't have been any critique of actual lyrics they had, it couldn't have been that they simply just suck, it's that they encroached on one of the few successful mechanism the faces at the bottom of the well could use to be seen in the culture. So after pushing us back as a race into our "rightful camp" instead of having us "invade" and play music another race owned (echoing my grandfather criticizing Elvis for "playing N- music") you criticize us for playing the very thing you told us to go back to.
Longer daddy please too short
MUST GIB MELON MONEEEEEEEEE
sub to his patreon
totally would but this kid got none money for even himself
why does he need a patreon
@@NN-mo6xw bruh I don't manage his money, how would I know? go write an email to him or smth
Fantano answers some of these Let’s Argue questions like one of those politicians that people actually like. As he answers the question, if you’re not paying attention, it can sound like he’s just meandering and not actually addressing the point of the question, but in actuality his response is just providing a large amount of important context that adds to the point that he’s making, and all in all makes what he says more complete and thought provoking as a result.
Complaining about classical music being white is similar to complaining about kingdom come deliverance not having afroamericans
Kind of reminds me about how DICE spat on the graves of fallen WW2 soldiers by revisioning history and excluding them.
Woah.
African music from Uganda and Sudan aren’t white enough.
Geez, I wonder why.
The classical period is a time period within classical music, just as romantic, baroque, etc are. Classical is still a genre, with a slightly confusing naming scheme.
Traditional Indian music is too Indian and too traditional.