Welcome to the final part of the honing cylinder series where we finish off the 998 Block and look at the challenges of honing thin wall overbored 1275 based blocks…..
As you probably know, it is possible to make a cylinder round off boring bar oval by starting with stones in same position after every check, I used to tell students to fit stones 90 degrees to last start position, or, after cylinder was oval, just before measured tight spot. With some practice you can feel tight spots. Cylinders were never used for a running engine they were given target size based on original measurements (measure cylinder and make it ten thou over ) Dead right you can get good results with a hand hone as long as you have practice. Anyone with mechanical aptitude can learn precision honing in a few days, around 15~20 hrs Nice cross hatch, you passed 😉 Sunnen hone was around $400 in 2004 but there were cheaper versions available on eBay last time I checked, available from India. (still about 10 years ago though) Isn't your DTI in bore gauge 5 tenths? (0.0005") Personally I prefer one tenth (0.0001") as the cylinders I do (69mm~80mm) normally use seventeen tenths to twenty two (0.0017" ~ 0.0022") piston to cylinder clearance with OEM cast pistons (in air cooled motors, Honda and Yamaha.) As long as your a little careful warming up there isn't a problem (things can 'cold seize' if piston is allowed to expand faster than cylinder by not doing proper warm up) When I worked at UK Plant, we had a Karcher hot water pressure washer. It was fantastic for cleaning blocks and being above boiling point dried off so fast there wasn't flash rust anywhere (I did a 2.3 Vauxhall for my Manta GTE one January, snow on the ground) Mahle make the best forged pistons in my opinion, the high silicon forging alloy they developed with Porsche has lower expansion than almost any other piston around. Only problem is, they are crazy expensive (last time I bought some around 1986 they were £90.00 each, including VAT) Lot of people like Wiseco, personally, not impressed as you needed 3 or 4 sets to get one matched set plus they are real high expansion (0.005" ~ 0.006" clearance on a 70mm bore!) The machining did improve a lot when they got some CNC lathes in 90's To do big bore conversion can get real expensive, particularly if you have to offset bore and fit wet liners.
Question here ------- Watched all three videos you have on Honing ------- You are abroad -- I'm here in the States ------- The hone you are using looks a great deal like the Lisle 15000 ------ Here's the Question ------ Say a block has the cylinder bores out of tolerance to put the same size piston back in ----- cylinders really need to be machined out to the next size --------- Can a hone like yours ------ loaded with the coarse stones ------ take that bore out to the next size? ------- Watched how you took the bores to a zero tolerance ---- top to bottom and probably same size taken at ninety degrees top to bottom ----- With watching how one is doing ---- stopping cleaning the stones ---- taking measurements along the way ------- CAN ONE TAKE THAT BORE TO THE NEXT SIZE? -------- Bore is 4 inch ---- next available size is a 4.020 ------ Enoy Old Cars ----- trying to do as much work myself ----- mechanical to Body work and paint ------- Enjoyed your videos ----- Thank you for the TIPS ----- What country are you in? ------ Hope you have a Good Week ---------- Rodney
Technically it’s possible, but physically very hard work. Using a machine to hone a block to the next oversize is perfectly possible and is done frequently by those that have the suitable equipment.
I used to let it sit over night so the block, piston and dial bore gauge all get the same size. Rechecking after 24 hours helped me a lot. Skip from # 2 cyl over to #4 then back to #1 finish at #3 this lowers bore distortion a little and every little bit helps Mate Have fun Do you use mostly cast iron rings? M
Use a ball brush hone, silicon carbide balls on nylon bristles. No idea of price nowadays though, 25 years ago they were around $35.00 in US but by the time import duty, mark up and VAT added probably £100 in UK? Snap-On dealers used to have them on the van but price generally jumps another 30%
As you probably know, it is possible to make a cylinder round off boring bar oval by starting with stones in same position after every check, I used to tell students to fit stones 90 degrees to last start position, or, after cylinder was oval, just before measured tight spot.
With some practice you can feel tight spots.
Cylinders were never used for a running engine they were given target size based on original measurements (measure cylinder and make it ten thou over )
Dead right you can get good results with a hand hone as long as you have practice.
Anyone with mechanical aptitude can learn precision honing in a few days, around 15~20 hrs
Nice cross hatch, you passed 😉
Sunnen hone was around $400 in 2004 but there were cheaper versions available on eBay last time I checked, available from India. (still about 10 years ago though)
Isn't your DTI in bore gauge 5 tenths? (0.0005")
Personally I prefer one tenth (0.0001") as the cylinders I do (69mm~80mm) normally use seventeen tenths to twenty two (0.0017" ~ 0.0022") piston to cylinder clearance with OEM cast pistons (in air cooled motors, Honda and Yamaha.)
As long as your a little careful warming up there isn't a problem (things can 'cold seize' if piston is allowed to expand faster than cylinder by not doing proper warm up)
When I worked at UK Plant, we had a Karcher hot water pressure washer. It was fantastic for cleaning blocks and being above boiling point dried off so fast there wasn't flash rust anywhere (I did a 2.3 Vauxhall for my Manta GTE one January, snow on the ground)
Mahle make the best forged pistons in my opinion, the high silicon forging alloy they developed with Porsche has lower expansion than almost any other piston around.
Only problem is, they are crazy expensive (last time I bought some around 1986 they were £90.00 each, including VAT)
Lot of people like Wiseco, personally, not impressed as you needed 3 or 4 sets to get one matched set plus they are real high expansion (0.005" ~ 0.006" clearance on a 70mm bore!)
The machining did improve a lot when they got some CNC lathes in 90's
To do big bore conversion can get real expensive, particularly if you have to offset bore and fit wet liners.
Your attention to detail is a credit to you sir !
Thankyou
Always quality work, using basic machinery, I appreciate the time spent making and producing these videos.
Thanks again Keith
Thank you for these high level tutorials. We are grateful.
Really enjoyed the series, thanks for taking the time to show us :)
Thanks Darren.
Haven't dry honed in years, need to get you a AXE hone cabinet. Makes it nice.
I am sure it does, however I don’t do enough to make it worth it
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience
Thanks very much AC. Great informative videos.
You explain it very well Excellent job👍
And where can I get a pair of them kicks
Thanks for posting this series. I don't think you discussed why you do your honing dry. Care to discuss/explain?
I have always done it that way and have never had a problem.
Question here ------- Watched all three videos you have on Honing ------- You are abroad -- I'm here in the States ------- The hone you are using looks a great deal like the Lisle 15000 ------ Here's the Question ------ Say a block has the cylinder bores out of tolerance to put the same size piston back in ----- cylinders really need to be machined out to the next size --------- Can a hone like yours ------ loaded with the coarse stones ------ take that bore out to the next size? ------- Watched how you took the bores to a zero tolerance ---- top to bottom and probably same size taken at ninety degrees top to bottom ----- With watching how one is doing ---- stopping cleaning the stones ---- taking measurements along the way ------- CAN ONE TAKE THAT BORE TO THE NEXT SIZE? -------- Bore is 4 inch ---- next available size is a 4.020 ------ Enoy Old Cars ----- trying to do as much work myself ----- mechanical to Body work and paint ------- Enjoyed your videos ----- Thank you for the TIPS ----- What country are you in? ------ Hope you have a Good Week ---------- Rodney
Technically it’s possible, but physically very hard work. Using a machine to hone a block to the next oversize is perfectly possible and is done frequently by those that have the suitable equipment.
I used to let it sit over night so the block, piston and dial bore gauge all get the same size. Rechecking after 24 hours helped me a lot. Skip from # 2 cyl over to #4 then back to #1 finish at #3 this lowers bore distortion a little and every little bit helps Mate Have fun
Do you use mostly cast iron rings?
M
Cast or chrome faced
When you say 3 thou clearance on the pistons, does that mean 1.5 thou each side of the piston?
Yes
Hi, could you show us how to deglaze the block bore too?
Use the same tool if you have enough metal to spare. Deglazing is done with a different tool usually.
Use a ball brush hone, silicon carbide balls on nylon bristles.
No idea of price nowadays though, 25 years ago they were around $35.00 in US but by the time import duty, mark up and VAT added probably £100 in UK?
Snap-On dealers used to have them on the van but price generally jumps another 30%
Just use a spring-loaded deglazing hone.