we are fortunate to listen to k's talk directly ...I am always grateful to J.KRISHNAMURTI OFFICIAL CHANNEL for their never ending help for the inquirers or investigators of self...I wish all young minds should listen to him and discover for themselves what this so called life is all about....
tremendous and very very sensible. Tremendous like a thunder of 100000 Amps of power, but still so sensible like a butterfly touching a flower. Thanks Great Master
@@eddcro I know you ain't seen this video in a while but um, the point is not to make a decision and if you actually looked you would know that there is no decision to be made. So he is not referring to any thing. Ever. get the picture?
I first stumbled across J. Krishnamurti when I was 14. I am 35 now and I have the feeling that I will be studying his wisdom till the day I die. Truly one of the most brilliant minds who ever walked the Earth. When I feel that I am stuck in my journey I always listen to his talks. They always inspire me to continue my search for meaning and to keep inquiring. My favourite is J. Krishanmurti's last talk. It is so beautiful and so moving.
JK's talks are a wonderful gateway to another dimension of diving into oneself, truly understanding and finding our Self, leading to the final journey of self-inquiry, atma vichara. Turn this wisdom into daily practice. And you won't have to listen to his talks all your life... You'd have graduated!
I have been listening J.KRISHNAMURTI talks for the past few months and I am delighted with the number of talks and discussions that are available for us. Through my childhood, education, culture, I never got in touch with these subjects of our life. What is our psychological structure, phenomenon of the self as human being, not separate individual.
This is our whole problem that during our lives no one speaks and does not point to these important aspects of life and ourselves. Our relatives are as if not interested in what actually happens to us and the world.
Ma ora possiamo noi tutti acquisire tuttto quello che ci e' stato negativ graziiiiiiieeeeeee a tanti esseri umani come K. CHE CON AMORE CI APRONO NUOVI ORIZZONTI ATTRAVERSO UNA NUOVA CONOSCENZA PER RITORNARE al nostro stato naturale ......❤🎉😅
I discovered Krishnamurti in the early 1970’s on a random chance bookshelf in England “The Awakening Of Intelligence”. Maybe your next step, it satisfies my meaning of gradually cleaning the windscreen Of our vehicle we are travelling in!? I am not the vehicle and I am Not Therefore The body. Regards
After years of listening to JK, I am understanding this now. This is a deeper concept. After all I may be left with one regret, that I did not meet him. Love you Tatayya 😄
Thanks for posting Krishnamurthi videos. I haven't listened to Buddha directly but thanks to Krishnamurthi foundation that I am able to listen and learn from Krishnamurthi directly.
Love is what it does, and it does what it is. Love requires acceptance, acceptance requires understanding, understanding requires love, and so ... love returns to love. hence, the unity of Life between all things is found through Love.
K has a wonderful way of changing you, without you knowing.Most incredible and natural process .Ones perception of another human being reflects as if you are looking into a mirror.KMOON.
We are grateful that you are exploring krishnamoorti teaching as it is without distortion . I saw in Osho's video with background music, attractive title just for selling it more , changing the voice and making it unnecessarily unnatural. Those people will not be forgiven. So thanking for presenting JK as it is natural.
The role of the Foundations was described by Krishnamurti himself when he said: 'The Foundations will see to it that these teachings are kept whole, are not distorted, are not made corrupt. They will not give rise to any sectarian spirit in their activities… nor create any kind of place of worship around the teachings or the person.'
But to understand silence is a human endeavour so deep and simple yet difficult that it supersedes everything. Because when silence is there nothing matters. The question is, how do everyday people even understand that their noise is their demise?
the problem with going into the question together on many questions as krishnamurti's teaching mentod suggests is that a western audience will understand this as meaning an intellectual exersise akin to a university seminar. i.e. at the level of the mind. western audiences need a different teaching approach to what krishnamurti adumbrates , an approach which enables access to a deeper level of questioning, rooted in awareness and Being
Without seeing the nature of thought, can not understand perception. In enquiring, thought finally sees its limitation and stops it's branching out. Finally left with the only thought, which is the "enquirer", and in enquiring that or may be all through the act of enquiry , perhaps, perception is, which is Holy and not of thought.
I discovered Krishnamurti in the early 1970’s on a random chance bookshelf in England “The Awakening Of Intelligence”. Maybe your next step, it satisfies my meaning of gradually cleaning the windscreen Of our vehicle we are travelling in!? I am not the vehicle and I am Not Therefore The body. Regards
Thought can lead the horse to water. A thought cannot explain itself. The concept of no self for the ego is an existential crisis created by thought . Ego can be above this childish fear that is real. The fact is I don't know where I am who I am or how I got here. Yet I am
Even today there is no consensus what is the difference between thought and thinking (Wici.). But, so it seems from following K. for many years, thought is a non-conscious brain attack/escape activity that affects further brain activity to effect silent/audible verbalisation thinking/speaking. For pre-language organisms brain activity thought would affect brain activity to effect, to trigger, physical activity attack/escape to sustain physical existence. Human brain activity, infected by the evolution of space-time language, is trapped into attacking/escaping that which has been or is being or that might be as so-called past, present and future. The resulting psycho-physical feelings/moods are our emotions. If only K. was still with us to discuss this.
If we go on deleting memory then how will we ever learn? Learn about mistakes, learn about dangers, learn about people who deliberately hurt us so that we can keep away from them ? This part of Krishnamurti's teaching is pretty hard to digest
Get deeper into it and you will get it. It seems paradox, but it isn't. He calls for choiceless attentiveness. This enables us to benefit from experiences, but bot get stuck in them for instance when being in contact with others and prior experiences we had.
We need memory. How would we get to the store, etc. He isn't suggesting we erase transactional memory. Rather, unbind ourselves from conceptual memories tethered to sanctioned outcomes with the selfish goal of garnering pleasures. They keep us in bondage.
Observation only happens when you see something for the first time. One can see a flower and find its beautiful through thought. If a different kind of flower is seen u observe it and now stored as memory/remembrance. Though one starts with observation thought comes and takes it over. So there is no observation but just thinking happening all the time. Now this brings to the question, what’s the beginning of Inquiry? Now that he heard K say that Observation is inquiry , isn’t this part of memory acting ? . Thought or memory just takes over control of your feelings, emotions before one realizes.
Yes. This is our conditioning / training since birth. Unlike jk we'll have to first retrain our brains to be able to see without words/names. Does comparison of flowers matter in enjoying the flower? Why do you need to label and compare it to other flowers? It stems from the want for continuity - To continue the past through the present into the future. Ultimately there is no continuity in the realm of thought. So we're looking in the wrong place. Drop thought, you will find continuity.
When he refers to percieving the beauty of a tree without thought ( because it is nature not man made) then does the same principle apply to say observing skin cancer - which ipso facto must also exhibit "beauty" - when percieved holistically and without thought - as it too is a creation of nature. Can someone please address this point.
When we say I am inquiring about something or the very nature of a thought? Isn’t this inquiry using memory as a representation of an event that’s already happened? If inquiry is using memory then it brings us to its limitation. Is there truly such thing as inquiry or is it just another form of ones expressing his thinking.? Does one can honestly and sincerely inquire into the nature of life, thinking when there is the sense of me operating ?
Observation of thought without memory... But in doing so in real practice, it seems that thought observes thought. There is no barren thought. Thought is always about something and it appears like a wave. So by the time the observation occurs, it's simply another thought about the previous thought. So, this is a confusion. Thought being aware of itself, till now seems to be ...I don't know what to say.... I don't understand....
⚠️ What if what we consider the "self" is only an abstraction, a construction of the thought, which is a material process ? When you die, your thoughts die, and your self also dies. No awareness, no self, nothing survive after death. Death is the end of the material process. 🙏🙏👍🏻
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Madras 1985 Q&A 2' either directly on TH-cam or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps.
Suppose i am anxiouse because of any thought , how watching or being aware of that thought will make any change ?, i dont get it what he want to say , if any body can provide little help here ?
How is an action which is holistic WHOLE? As the thought is affected by limitedness of knowledge, it doesn't matter if we do a holistic action, it will still not be whole. Pls someone refer me something so that I can understand what's holistic action.
Best example for you is Newton's law n E=MC^2 both are whole and came from silent observation (or you can also say a state of thoughtlessness) of Newton n Einstein's.....whole means you can't add anything into it I hope you got your answer
If an action is taken without thought, how can we ensure that everything is taken into consideration? the speaker mentioned the term "Whole". Is it not ignorance ?
Transcript 1/2: 1st Question: You have shown that thought is limited, but what other instrument of enquiry is available to man? I haven’t shown you a thing. That’s a wrong supposition. We together enquired into the whole nature of thought, not, the speaker has shown something to you and you accept. But rather that together, you and the speaker, went into the whole question of thought, not somebody else’s thoughts but one’s own thinking. And we live by thinking. Everything we do is by thinking, through thought. All our emotions are recognised by thought, as bad, good, indifferent, romantic and so on. And we went into it fairly sufficiently. Perhaps we should go into it again. Because if one understands this very deeply: what is thought, not only the thought of the so-called great scientists, the great investigators into astrophysics, into archaeology, physics, chemistry and so on. They expend thought enormously, pursue one thought after another, come to a conclusion; and that conclusion is not correct, they throw it out and go on - thinking, thinking, thinking. And the villager round the corner, who doesn’t know how to read or write because he has never looked at a book, he also thinks. So thought is common to all mankind. Right? And there is no good thought and bad thought, it is still thought. We should now, together, you and the speaker, enquire into it. Not I show it to you and then you accept it, which is quite absurd. But if you and K enquire into it, go into it and if you discover it for yourself as a fact then nobody can dislodge your observation. Right? Nobody can deny the accuracy of your thinking. So can we go on, explore together - I mean together. That means you have to exercise your brain - I am saying this most respectfully - exercise your brain to find out together what is thought. Not thought about something. You understand the difference between thinking and thinking about something. We generally think about something, about my job, about my business, about my wife, about my sex, about so many things. The object of thinking may vary, may be different with each person, but thinking, thought, is common to all mankind. That’s a fact. Right? Common to all mankind. So we are not talking about the object of thinking, the object: I would like to be happy, I would like to have more money, or I would like to have a better car, I wish I could change my wife for somebody else and so on. Thinking about something. But we are not investigating about something, but rather the whole activity of thought, how it arises, what’s the origin, and so on. We are going to go into thinking, not the object of thought. Clear? All right? What do you think - don’t quote me, the speaker, then you are lost - what do you think is thought? Is thought a material process? Do you understand my question? Is thought something outside? In certain tribes thought is always considered something outside. You know, according to the Eskimos thought is considered something apart from the physical, outside, and so on. I won’t go into all that. I am not a scholar, I have just observed. I don’t read books, I don’t go into all that kind of stuff. So thinking can only exist when there is a whole background of memory. Right? If I have no memory at all I can’t think. Right? Shall we go along with this? So I have to enquire why memory, thought plays such an important part in one’s life. Memory is based on knowledge. Right? I have had an experience of a car accident and that incident has been recorded, like the tape which is being now recorded, it is recorded by the brain, and that recording is memory of that incident. Right? Don’t agree with me, just see for yourself. So the function of the brain is to record, and the recording is knowledge. I have had that injury through an accident of a car, and that is recorded as pain and that remains there recorded. That recording is knowledge. Right? Of course. Next time I drive a car I am going to be awfully careful - if you drive a car. So thought, memory, which is the recording as knowledge, that knowledge is based on that experience of an accident. Right? Experience in that car, which has had an accident, which caused pain, a broken leg - I won’t say a broken head for then you are gone! (laughs) So experience, then the brain records that experience as knowledge - right? - then that knowledge is memory and that memory is the movement of thought. Is this clear? Not clear, my description, your own discovery, your own investigation into the whole business of thinking. That thinking may be distorted, or that thinking may live in illusions, or that thinking may run away with some fanciful, imaginative pictures, but it is still thinking. And there is obviously no complete experience of anything. So experience is limited. And therefore knowledge is also limited because the scientists as you observe, are adding more and more and more to their knowledge. Right? They never say knowledge is complete, now or in the future. So knowledge, if you observe in yourself, knowledge is always limited, whether in the past or in the present or in the future. So knowledge is always limited. Right? Do we see that? That is important because if we don’t understand the nature of knowledge and what part it plays in our lives then knowledge becomes - one cannot grasp the quality of knowledge. Are we following each other a little bit, or is it all quickly done? You understand? Knowledge is based on experience, may be thousands of years of experience, but those experiences of ten years, or a hundred years, or one day, are still limited, and therefore knowledge is limited, memory is limited, and therefore thought is limited. Right? Thought is always limited. Are we clear on this matter, or is it all vague? And all our activity is limited too because it is based on thought. And so the questioner asks, if thought is not the instrument of investigation - you understand? - into deeper levels of one’s own consciousness, of one’s understanding the fullness, the wholeness of life, then what is the instrument if thought is not? Do you understand the question? All right? Can I go on? Gosh, you all look so asleep. You’re all right? Thought is necessary, however limited it is. When you go home from here, or take a bus, car, walk, or these nasty little ‘fut-futs’, you have to use thought. You have to use thought in your business. You have to use thought when you fly, when you do anything externally, physically, you have to use thought. And if that thought is not employed - or if thought doesn’t express itself clearly, then out of that lack of clarity there is confusion. So knowledge is always necessary for external activity. Clear? When one goes to the barber to have one’s hair cut you must use thought. When you shave you must use thought. So is there another instrument which is not limited, as thought is limited? Is there another instrument which can penetrate into the whole structure, nature of the psyche? The psyche being the self, the whole phenomenon of the self. Is there an instrument apart from thought? Right? What would be your answer? If you have pursued what we have said just now about thought, realising that thought is limited, and therefore when you exercise thought as a means of investigating into yourself it will always be incomplete. Right? It will always be limited. It will not be holistic. If you see that clearly for yourself, for oneself, then what is the instrument? Or there is no instrument at all? Careful, please go carefully into this. Are we at least together in all this? When you see a tree, that thing that is green, outside there, how do you look at it? What’s your relationship to that tree? Do you look at it without the word? Or the word is the tree? I wonder if you understand all this. You understand my question? When you look at that extraordinary thing of nature called a tree, which man hasn’t created, thank god, and what’s your response to it? Is it a verbal response - how beautiful that tree is, and go by? Or can you look at that thing called a tree - the word ‘tree’ is not the tree. Right? The word which we use to indicate, to communicate with another, that thing which is over there, the word is not the tree. Right? The word ‘door’, behind here, is not the thing, is it? So could we say the word is not the thing. The word is merely to describe, but that which is described is not the actual. Don’t look so puzzled, please.
Transcript 2/2: So this is important to understand because we are caught in words, we become prisoners to words, a slave to words: I am a Brahmin, or you are not, I am a communist, I am a congressman, and so on - words. So when you look at that green thing standing in the garden, do you look at it without a word? Do you look at it without any interference of thought which is limited? Or you are so occupied with your own thinking, with your own problems and so on, you really never look at that tree. Now carry that same thing: do you look at your wife, or husband, or your girl friend, whatever you like, without the word, without the memory associated with that person? You understand this is very important to understand. I know you, you have been here, I see several people here I met a couple of years ago, or ten years ago, do I look at them - I am asking myself, please ask yourself - do I look at them with all the memory of five years ago? Of course, he is so and so. Otherwise that would be rather silly if I have to be introduced every time I meet him! But do I carry that memory of meeting that person on the road which was dirty, noisy, etc., etc., and I carry that memory and when I see him next time that memory operates, therefore I am not looking at him afresh. I wonder if you understand all this. Are you looking at my face? And enamoured with the face? Or are you really going into this carefully with the speaker? When you look at your wife or husband and so on, you have all the memory: sexual, memory of encouragement, depression, oh, she is a nagging person, and so on and so on, and so on, when you look at a person do you carry all this with you? Let’s be quite simple and honest. Of course we do. Don’t we? So you never look at that person at all because you have got this memory as a screen and through that screen you look at people. So there is an observation which is not controlled by words, shaped by words, twisted by thought, and that is the only - I don’t like to use ‘instrument’ - that is the only observation, to look, to observe without any word. Don’t shake your head, this demands extraordinary watchfulness. To look, to observe, without the word, without your opinions, prejudices, all the activity of thought - to look, to observe. Then that observation, when it is not shaped by thought, or driven by thought, then such observation is holistic, whole, not limited as thought is limited. Is this clear? No, no, please don’t say, yes, don’t agree, you can’t agree unless you do it. Most of us like to be talked at, we like to attend meetings. It is one of our diseases. And you just listen, agree, disagree, and go off home. We are not in that area at all. What we are saying is extraordinarily important to understand for yourself. The limitation of thought, the memory as recorded of an incident which becomes knowledge based on experience and all that process is everlastingly limited. All the scientists are adding more and more and more; with the last two hundred years they have advanced immensely, adding. And where there is an addition, that which is added to is always limited, obviously, it is not complete. And there is an observation, perception, not only seeing with the visual, optical eye but also seeing, perceiving, observing without a single movement of thought. And such observation is complete. Now from that arises another deep very important question: what is action - the question is not here, I am putting the question - what is action when there is such complete perception? Do you understand my question? What is action to you? The doing, acting, present participle, (laughs) sorry, the doing, what does it mean? The doing, acting according to a past reservoir of memory, knowledge, and you act according to that knowledge. Right? I am not saying anything mysterious, sirs, don’t look so glum. Or we act according to a symbol, or according to a preconceived concept, idea, an ideal. Right? Acting according to the past memories, and that action directed by the past, or the future. Right? I must do that, or I act according to my conviction, or I have an ideal, and I act according to that ideal. Right? Right, sirs? Isn’t this so? You all look so frightfully serious. (laughter) Either you are really serious, or you don’t understand what I am talking about. (laughter) So action is based on the past memories, knowledge, or acting according to the future: what I must do tomorrow and therefore I will do this today. You understand? Is there an action which is not based either on the past, or on the future? Because the word ‘act’, I have just heard the other day the explanation of the word ‘karma’, ‘kru’ to do - the doing is now, not tomorrow or yesterday. You understand what I am saying? The doing, the acting. We cannot live without acting. When you get up, that’s an act, when you go to your home, that’s an act; not sublime act. So action, actual action is now. Now I am asking myself, what is the relationship of action to perception which is holistic? Am I right? Are you putting that question? I don’t want to torture you, bully you, force you to anything at all. But these are the ordinary questions, this is the ordinary demand of every human being. So is there an action which is holistic, which is whole, not limited? Because our actions are based on thought. If thought is limited, as it is, then action will be limited, therefore it is never… - as it is limited, it creates all kinds of trouble. Look sirs, there is a war going on in the Middle East, in Beirut in Lebanon - the Jews and the Arabs. Right? They are both Semitic people. You understand? But four thousand, or five thousand years of propaganda has made the Jews say, ‘I am separate from the Arab’. Right? All right, I wont go so far. Come nearer, much nearer home. Which is, you are Hindus and there are the Muslims. The Muslims have been for the last sixteen hundred years, have been conditioned through repetition, through fear, through conformity, conversion and so on to believe they are Muslims, and you have been conditioned, programmed for three to five thousand years as Hindus. Thought has divided this - right? - not culture. Culture belongs to all humanity, not just Indian culture. I wont go into all that. So you, as a Hindu, and the Muslim are at war - not actually killing each other but when there is a riot you burst out, you are violent. So thought has divided people. Right? You understand? I am French or British - for God’s sake, it’s all so childish, all this! So, the speaker is saying - don’t accept it, question it, doubt it, tear it to pieces. Find out for yourself if there is an action which is completely without division, separation, which is not based on thought. If I may, if you’ll forgive me, forgive the speaker if he uses the word, introduces the word ‘love’. I’m not talking of physical pleasure which we call love. That may be natural or unnatural, whatever that is. I don’t want to go into this question very deeply because it’s a very, very complex thing, what love is. Love is not based on knowledge, love is not the product of thought. Love is not pleasure and so on. When there is that quality of love, there is an action which is holistic, which is whole. Full stop!
On the one hand, you are right, but on the other hand, there is no other way of communication. Even though he uses words and repeats it, he always does it a little with other examples.
Phillip Wilcher: I doubt there can be any dispute with your statement that 'your thoughts occur to you'. Even so, it is possible there is a questionable assumption in that statement implied by it's linguistic structure. Such a statement may be taken to imply (by the speaker and / or the reader) the *prior* existence of a 'me' to whom the thought occurs. That is, it implies the one to whom thought occurs existed beforehand, and will continue to exist after the thought. But your statement obscures the possibility that the one to whom the thought occurs does not exist independently of the thought, but instead co-arises with the thought. So that once the thought is over, the one to whom the thought occurred disappears likewise.
What is thought?I'll await your answer... hahaha The wisdom of knowledge is the doubt of knowledge and the limit of knowledge The answer to what is thought? May surprised you...
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we are fortunate to listen to k's talk directly ...I am always grateful to J.KRISHNAMURTI OFFICIAL CHANNEL for their never ending help for the inquirers or investigators of self...I wish all young minds should listen to him and discover for themselves what this so called life is all about....
Harish T.k. 🍁🍁🍁🌸🌸🌸🏵️🏵️🏵️🌴🌴🌴🐦🐦🐦🐘🐘🐘🦄🐴❣️❣️❣️💘💚💛🧡💜💝🙏🙏🙏👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩👩❤️👩
वेरी ट्रू
"I don't know! So I go forward!"
Exactly👊
There is only one j Krishnamurti always been my hero fool off love to help humanity
tremendous and very very sensible. Tremendous like a thunder of 100000 Amps of power, but still so sensible like a butterfly touching a flower.
Thanks Great Master
One of the greatest thinkers ever walked on earth.
Bit of an Oxymoron there lol
You're just referring to an image you created in your head
He repeated all his life that what he was saying was not theories or philosophy but the actual reality. He was not a thinker and was not a teacher.
he just decided that he will spend part of his life to help the other ,it is a fact
@@eddcro I know you ain't seen this video in a while but um, the point is not to make a decision and if you actually looked you would know that there is no decision to be made. So he is not referring to any thing. Ever. get the picture?
I first stumbled across J. Krishnamurti when I was 14. I am 35 now and I have the feeling that I will be studying his wisdom till the day I die. Truly one of the most brilliant minds who ever walked the Earth. When I feel that I am stuck in my journey I always listen to his talks. They always inspire me to continue my search for meaning and to keep inquiring. My favourite is J. Krishanmurti's last talk. It is so beautiful and so moving.
How come I also think as you feel.For the questions on life K is the answer.
JK's talks are a wonderful gateway to another dimension of diving into oneself, truly understanding and finding our Self, leading to the final journey of self-inquiry, atma vichara. Turn this wisdom into daily practice. And you won't have to listen to his talks all your life... You'd have graduated!
What a profound and lovable, sage. Is Krishnamurti.
He ain't a Sage.
He's a Page.
Read him
I have been listening J.KRISHNAMURTI talks for the past few months and I am delighted with the number of talks and discussions that are available for us. Through my childhood, education, culture, I never got in touch with these subjects of our life. What is our psychological structure, phenomenon of the self as human being, not separate individual.
This is our whole problem that during our lives no one speaks and does not point to these important aspects of life and ourselves. Our relatives are as if not interested in what actually happens to us and the world.
Ma ora possiamo noi tutti acquisire tuttto quello che ci e' stato negativ graziiiiiiieeeeeee a tanti esseri umani come K. CHE CON AMORE CI APRONO NUOVI ORIZZONTI ATTRAVERSO UNA NUOVA CONOSCENZA PER RITORNARE al nostro stato naturale ......❤🎉😅
I discovered Krishnamurti in the early 1970’s on a random chance bookshelf in England “The Awakening Of Intelligence”. Maybe your next step, it satisfies my meaning of gradually cleaning the windscreen Of our vehicle we are travelling in!? I am not the vehicle and I am Not Therefore The body. Regards
He’s alaways left me speechless whenever i listen to him...
It happens with me also
After years of listening to JK, I am understanding this now. This is a deeper concept. After all I may be left with one regret, that I did not meet him. Love you Tatayya 😄
I am very grateful to krishnamurti official talks
Thanks for posting Krishnamurthi videos. I haven't listened to Buddha directly but thanks to Krishnamurthi foundation that I am able to listen and learn from Krishnamurthi directly.
The true Love, a selfless act. A great message
Love is what it does, and it does what it is. Love requires acceptance, acceptance requires understanding, understanding requires love, and so ... love returns to love. hence, the unity of Life between all things is found through Love.
Can we see a table or chair like this as there's no compassion involved there??
Grateful to J k foundation committee ❤️❤️❤️
Truly the best channel on TH-cam. Thank you
So true
Jiddu would disagree with you...
@@singularitysquaredllc.895 ok I'll
This is fantastic stuff. Just listen.
We should have a subject on Know yourself in school curriculum..!
So very applicable to the world situation as it stands now in this very moment in time, where love has mostly vanished.
I'm really fortunate to listen to krishnamurthy ji
Words don't have the words to explain! 🕊
yes,JK observed the truth.thank JK for showing us the truth.
Very good video, and some great insights shared. Thank you
K has a wonderful way of changing you, without you knowing.Most incredible and natural process .Ones perception of another human being reflects as if you are looking into a mirror.KMOON.
So grateful for this.
Yes. To observe without judgment.
This man❤️
We are grateful that you are exploring krishnamoorti teaching as it is without distortion .
I saw in Osho's video with background music, attractive title just for selling it more , changing the voice and making it unnecessarily unnatural.
Those people will not be forgiven.
So thanking for presenting JK as it is natural.
The role of the Foundations was described by Krishnamurti himself when he said: 'The Foundations will see to it that these teachings are kept whole, are not distorted, are not made corrupt. They will not give rise to any sectarian spirit in their activities… nor create any kind of place of worship around the teachings or the person.'
"When there is a quality of love,and the action out of it is holistic."
“I haven’t shown you a thing.”
Thank you.
👉If it were possible to begin again tabula rasa, these observations would be the basis for a life of maximum fulfillment 🤗
He is wisdom man
The only non guru who shows the real facts about our psyche
Do not call him a "thinker". He is far above that.
"Is there another instrument of inquiry than thought?" ... Yes... Silence, the only "instrument" of inquiry.
But to understand silence is a human endeavour so deep and simple yet difficult that it supersedes everything. Because when silence is there nothing matters. The question is, how do everyday people even understand that their noise is their demise?
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great soul
the problem with going into the question together on many questions as krishnamurti's teaching mentod suggests is that a western audience will understand this as meaning an intellectual exersise akin to a university seminar. i.e. at the level of the mind. western audiences need a different teaching approach to what krishnamurti adumbrates , an approach which enables access to a deeper level of questioning, rooted in awareness and Being
Without seeing the nature of thought, can not understand perception. In enquiring, thought finally sees its limitation and stops it's branching out. Finally left with the only thought, which is the "enquirer", and in enquiring that or may be all through the act of enquiry , perhaps, perception is, which is Holy and not of thought.
I was K trained from 13 to 23 when the end came... I freeked..
Love is wholeness!
I discovered Krishnamurti in the early 1970’s on a random chance bookshelf in England “The Awakening Of Intelligence”. Maybe your next step, it satisfies my meaning of gradually cleaning the windscreen Of our vehicle we are travelling in!? I am not the vehicle and I am Not Therefore The body. Regards
Thanks
Life goes on.
That the processes of thought and scientific discovery are "everlastingly limited" is in keeping with the evolution of humankind, which is limitless.
U DON'T THINK VERY CLEAR ^^'
In a very silent mind don't we come across a movement of energy .Is that universal intelligence.?Many solutions do come from that area
Nice explanation
18:09 know that thought is limited in complete.
Thought can lead the horse to water. A thought cannot explain itself. The concept of no self for the ego is an existential crisis created by thought . Ego can be above this childish fear that is real. The fact is I don't know where I am who I am or how I got here. Yet I am
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🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Does a buffalo ever says to the other buffalo 'I give milk more than you do!' ?
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Even today there is no consensus what is the difference between thought and thinking (Wici.). But, so it seems from following K. for many years, thought is a non-conscious brain attack/escape activity that affects further brain activity to effect silent/audible verbalisation thinking/speaking. For pre-language organisms brain activity thought would affect brain activity to effect, to trigger, physical activity attack/escape to sustain physical existence. Human brain activity, infected by the evolution of space-time language, is trapped into attacking/escaping that which has been or is being or that might be as so-called past, present and future. The resulting psycho-physical feelings/moods are our emotions. If only K. was still with us to discuss this.
If we go on deleting memory then how will we ever learn?
Learn about mistakes, learn about dangers, learn about people who deliberately hurt us so that we can keep away from them ?
This part of Krishnamurti's teaching is pretty hard to digest
Get deeper into it and you will get it. It seems paradox, but it isn't. He calls for choiceless attentiveness. This enables us to benefit from experiences, but bot get stuck in them for instance when being in contact with others and prior experiences we had.
No deleting. Maybe liveing in a way, expirience not limiting us
We need memory. How would we get to the store, etc. He isn't suggesting we erase transactional memory. Rather, unbind ourselves from conceptual memories tethered to sanctioned outcomes with the selfish goal of garnering pleasures. They keep us in bondage.
Observation only happens when you see something for the first time. One can see a flower and find its beautiful through thought. If a different kind of flower is seen u observe it and now stored as memory/remembrance. Though one starts with observation thought comes and takes it over. So there is no observation but just thinking happening all the time. Now this brings to the question, what’s the beginning of Inquiry? Now that he heard K say that Observation is inquiry , isn’t this part of memory acting ? . Thought or memory just takes over control of your feelings, emotions before one realizes.
Yes. This is our conditioning / training since birth. Unlike jk we'll have to first retrain our brains to be able to see without words/names. Does comparison of flowers matter in enjoying the flower? Why do you need to label and compare it to other flowers? It stems from the want for continuity - To continue the past through the present into the future. Ultimately there is no continuity in the realm of thought. So we're looking in the wrong place. Drop thought, you will find continuity.
When he refers to percieving the beauty of a tree without thought ( because it is nature not man made) then does the same principle apply to say observing skin cancer - which ipso facto must also exhibit "beauty" - when percieved holistically and without thought - as it too is a creation of nature.
Can someone please address this point.
Observation /perception Not driven by thought is instrument of Enquiry.
Will you please explain briefly?
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When we say I am inquiring about something or the very nature of a thought? Isn’t this inquiry using memory as a representation of an event that’s already happened? If inquiry is using memory then it brings us to its limitation. Is there truly such thing as inquiry or is it just another form of ones expressing his thinking.? Does one can honestly and sincerely inquire into the nature of life, thinking when there is the sense of me operating ?
Yes one can. To human is to attach words. To transcend this dimension, you have to drop thought.
Simplistically explain about brain function.
I would think that observation is capable of inquiry
He is the present day Buddha.
Observation of thought without memory...
But in doing so in real practice, it seems that thought observes thought. There is no barren thought. Thought is always about something and it appears like a wave. So by the time the observation occurs, it's simply another thought about the previous thought.
So, this is a confusion. Thought being aware of itself, till now seems to be ...I don't know what to say....
I don't understand....
This is what he has said many times that understanding cannot come through the intellect✋😔
there is nothing in thought. it is empty. thoughts don’t think.
Wao/\
Wao/\🌹
Please, add subtitle
⚠️ What if what we consider the "self" is only an abstraction, a construction of the thought, which is a material process ? When you die, your thoughts die, and your self also dies. No awareness, no self, nothing survive after death. Death is the end of the material process. 🙏🙏👍🏻
That's what you believe
The Self is the real, any thoughts or considerations about the Self are indeed abstractions.
Is it another thought which says that 'thought is limited'?
You have to use thought so thought can understand it place.
Please 🙏 provide subtitles of this video in English
7:46 . . . not a solar, I’ve observed. I don’t read books.
where can I get the full lecture
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Madras 1985 Q&A 2' either directly on TH-cam or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps.
Suppose i am anxiouse because of any thought , how watching or being aware of that thought will make any change ?, i dont get it what he want to say , if any body can provide little help here ?
Captions
Wonderfur
How is an action which is holistic WHOLE?
As the thought is affected by limitedness of knowledge, it doesn't matter if we do a holistic action, it will still not be whole.
Pls someone refer me something so that I can understand what's holistic action.
Best example for you is Newton's law n E=MC^2 both are whole and came from silent observation (or you can also say a state of thoughtlessness) of Newton n Einstein's.....whole means you can't add anything into it I hope you got your answer
Check out( magus life changing message) amazing
If an action is taken without thought, how can we ensure that everything is taken into consideration? the speaker mentioned the term "Whole". Is it not ignorance ?
Perception of the moment not the thinkable things you see... It is a description of this talk?
Is it possible to add captions/subtitles ?
Transcript 1/2:
1st Question: You have shown that thought is limited, but what other instrument of enquiry is available to man?
I haven’t shown you a thing. That’s a wrong supposition. We together enquired into the whole nature of thought, not, the speaker has shown something to you and you accept. But rather that together, you and the speaker, went into the whole question of thought, not somebody else’s thoughts but one’s own thinking. And we live by thinking. Everything we do is by thinking, through thought. All our emotions are recognised by thought, as bad, good, indifferent, romantic and so on. And we went into it fairly sufficiently. Perhaps we should go into it again. Because if one understands this very deeply: what is thought, not only the thought of the so-called great scientists, the great investigators into astrophysics, into archaeology, physics, chemistry and so on. They expend thought enormously, pursue one thought after another, come to a conclusion; and that conclusion is not correct, they throw it out and go on - thinking, thinking, thinking. And the villager round the corner, who doesn’t know how to read or write because he has never looked at a book, he also thinks. So thought is common to all mankind. Right? And there is no good thought and bad thought, it is still thought.
We should now, together, you and the speaker, enquire into it. Not I show it to you and then you accept it, which is quite absurd. But if you and K enquire into it, go into it and if you discover it for yourself as a fact then nobody can dislodge your observation. Right? Nobody can deny the accuracy of your thinking. So can we go on, explore together - I mean together. That means you have to exercise your brain - I am saying this most respectfully - exercise your brain to find out together what is thought. Not thought about something. You understand the difference between thinking and thinking about something. We generally think about something, about my job, about my business, about my wife, about my sex, about so many things. The object of thinking may vary, may be different with each person, but thinking, thought, is common to all mankind. That’s a fact. Right? Common to all mankind. So we are not talking about the object of thinking, the object: I would like to be happy, I would like to have more money, or I would like to have a better car, I wish I could change my wife for somebody else and so on. Thinking about something. But we are not investigating about something, but rather the whole activity of thought, how it arises, what’s the origin, and so on. We are going to go into thinking, not the object of thought. Clear?
All right? What do you think - don’t quote me, the speaker, then you are lost - what do you think is thought? Is thought a material process? Do you understand my question? Is thought something outside? In certain tribes thought is always considered something outside. You know, according to the Eskimos thought is considered something apart from the physical, outside, and so on. I won’t go into all that. I am not a scholar, I have just observed. I don’t read books, I don’t go into all that kind of stuff. So thinking can only exist when there is a whole background of memory. Right? If I have no memory at all I can’t think. Right? Shall we go along with this?
So I have to enquire why memory, thought plays such an important part in one’s life. Memory is based on knowledge. Right? I have had an experience of a car accident and that incident has been recorded, like the tape which is being now recorded, it is recorded by the brain, and that recording is memory of that incident. Right? Don’t agree with me, just see for yourself. So the function of the brain is to record, and the recording is knowledge. I have had that injury through an accident of a car, and that is recorded as pain and that remains there recorded. That recording is knowledge. Right? Of course. Next time I drive a car I am going to be awfully careful - if you drive a car. So thought, memory, which is the recording as knowledge, that knowledge is based on that experience of an accident. Right? Experience in that car, which has had an accident, which caused pain, a broken leg - I won’t say a broken head for then you are gone! (laughs) So experience, then the brain records that experience as knowledge - right? - then that knowledge is memory and that memory is the movement of thought. Is this clear? Not clear, my description, your own discovery, your own investigation into the whole business of thinking. That thinking may be distorted, or that thinking may live in illusions, or that thinking may run away with some fanciful, imaginative pictures, but it is still thinking. And there is obviously no complete experience of anything. So experience is limited. And therefore knowledge is also limited because the scientists as you observe, are adding more and more and more to their knowledge. Right? They never say knowledge is complete, now or in the future. So knowledge, if you observe in yourself, knowledge is always limited, whether in the past or in the present or in the future. So knowledge is always limited. Right? Do we see that? That is important because if we don’t understand the nature of knowledge and what part it plays in our lives then knowledge becomes - one cannot grasp the quality of knowledge. Are we following each other a little bit, or is it all quickly done?
You understand? Knowledge is based on experience, may be thousands of years of experience, but those experiences of ten years, or a hundred years, or one day, are still limited, and therefore knowledge is limited, memory is limited, and therefore thought is limited. Right? Thought is always limited. Are we clear on this matter, or is it all vague? And all our activity is limited too because it is based on thought.
And so the questioner asks, if thought is not the instrument of investigation - you understand? - into deeper levels of one’s own consciousness, of one’s understanding the fullness, the wholeness of life, then what is the instrument if thought is not? Do you understand the question? All right? Can I go on? Gosh, you all look so asleep. You’re all right? Thought is necessary, however limited it is. When you go home from here, or take a bus, car, walk, or these nasty little ‘fut-futs’, you have to use thought. You have to use thought in your business. You have to use thought when you fly, when you do anything externally, physically, you have to use thought. And if that thought is not employed - or if thought doesn’t express itself clearly, then out of that lack of clarity there is confusion. So knowledge is always necessary for external activity. Clear? When one goes to the barber to have one’s hair cut you must use thought. When you shave you must use thought.
So is there another instrument which is not limited, as thought is limited? Is there another instrument which can penetrate into the whole structure, nature of the psyche? The psyche being the self, the whole phenomenon of the self. Is there an instrument apart from thought? Right? What would be your answer? If you have pursued what we have said just now about thought, realising that thought is limited, and therefore when you exercise thought as a means of investigating into yourself it will always be incomplete. Right? It will always be limited. It will not be holistic. If you see that clearly for yourself, for oneself, then what is the instrument? Or there is no instrument at all? Careful, please go carefully into this. Are we at least together in all this?
When you see a tree, that thing that is green, outside there, how do you look at it? What’s your relationship to that tree? Do you look at it without the word? Or the word is the tree? I wonder if you understand all this. You understand my question? When you look at that extraordinary thing of nature called a tree, which man hasn’t created, thank god, and what’s your response to it? Is it a verbal response - how beautiful that tree is, and go by? Or can you look at that thing called a tree - the word ‘tree’ is not the tree. Right? The word which we use to indicate, to communicate with another, that thing which is over there, the word is not the tree. Right? The word ‘door’, behind here, is not the thing, is it? So could we say the word is not the thing. The word is merely to describe, but that which is described is not the actual. Don’t look so puzzled, please.
Transcript 2/2:
So this is important to understand because we are caught in words, we become prisoners to words, a slave to words: I am a Brahmin, or you are not, I am a communist, I am a congressman, and so on - words. So when you look at that green thing standing in the garden, do you look at it without a word? Do you look at it without any interference of thought which is limited? Or you are so occupied with your own thinking, with your own problems and so on, you really never look at that tree. Now carry that same thing: do you look at your wife, or husband, or your girl friend, whatever you like, without the word, without the memory associated with that person? You understand this is very important to understand. I know you, you have been here, I see several people here I met a couple of years ago, or ten years ago, do I look at them - I am asking myself, please ask yourself - do I look at them with all the memory of five years ago? Of course, he is so and so. Otherwise that would be rather silly if I have to be introduced every time I meet him! But do I carry that memory of meeting that person on the road which was dirty, noisy, etc., etc., and I carry that memory and when I see him next time that memory operates, therefore I am not looking at him afresh. I wonder if you understand all this.
Are you looking at my face? And enamoured with the face? Or are you really going into this carefully with the speaker? When you look at your wife or husband and so on, you have all the memory: sexual, memory of encouragement, depression, oh, she is a nagging person, and so on and so on, and so on, when you look at a person do you carry all this with you? Let’s be quite simple and honest. Of course we do. Don’t we? So you never look at that person at all because you have got this memory as a screen and through that screen you look at people. So there is an observation which is not controlled by words, shaped by words, twisted by thought, and that is the only - I don’t like to use ‘instrument’ - that is the only observation, to look, to observe without any word. Don’t shake your head, this demands extraordinary watchfulness. To look, to observe, without the word, without your opinions, prejudices, all the activity of thought - to look, to observe. Then that observation, when it is not shaped by thought, or driven by thought, then such observation is holistic, whole, not limited as thought is limited. Is this clear? No, no, please don’t say, yes, don’t agree, you can’t agree unless you do it. Most of us like to be talked at, we like to attend meetings. It is one of our diseases. And you just listen, agree, disagree, and go off home. We are not in that area at all. What we are saying is extraordinarily important to understand for yourself. The limitation of thought, the memory as recorded of an incident which becomes knowledge based on experience and all that process is everlastingly limited. All the scientists are adding more and more and more; with the last two hundred years they have advanced immensely, adding. And where there is an addition, that which is added to is always limited, obviously, it is not complete. And there is an observation, perception, not only seeing with the visual, optical eye but also seeing, perceiving, observing without a single movement of thought. And such observation is complete.
Now from that arises another deep very important question: what is action - the question is not here, I am putting the question - what is action when there is such complete perception? Do you understand my question? What is action to you? The doing, acting, present participle, (laughs) sorry, the doing, what does it mean? The doing, acting according to a past reservoir of memory, knowledge, and you act according to that knowledge. Right? I am not saying anything mysterious, sirs, don’t look so glum. Or we act according to a symbol, or according to a preconceived concept, idea, an ideal. Right? Acting according to the past memories, and that action directed by the past, or the future. Right? I must do that, or I act according to my conviction, or I have an ideal, and I act according to that ideal. Right? Right, sirs? Isn’t this so? You all look so frightfully serious. (laughter) Either you are really serious, or you don’t understand what I am talking about. (laughter)
So action is based on the past memories, knowledge, or acting according to the future: what I must do tomorrow and therefore I will do this today. You understand? Is there an action which is not based either on the past, or on the future? Because the word ‘act’, I have just heard the other day the explanation of the word ‘karma’, ‘kru’ to do - the doing is now, not tomorrow or yesterday. You understand what I am saying? The doing, the acting. We cannot live without acting. When you get up, that’s an act, when you go to your home, that’s an act; not sublime act. So action, actual action is now. Now I am asking myself, what is the relationship of action to perception which is holistic? Am I right? Are you putting that question? I don’t want to torture you, bully you, force you to anything at all. But these are the ordinary questions, this is the ordinary demand of every human being. So is there an action which is holistic, which is whole, not limited? Because our actions are based on thought. If thought is limited, as it is, then action will be limited, therefore it is never… - as it is limited, it creates all kinds of trouble.
Look sirs, there is a war going on in the Middle East, in Beirut in Lebanon - the Jews and the Arabs. Right? They are both Semitic people. You understand? But four thousand, or five thousand years of propaganda has made the Jews say, ‘I am separate from the Arab’. Right? All right, I wont go so far. Come nearer, much nearer home. Which is, you are Hindus and there are the Muslims. The Muslims have been for the last sixteen hundred years, have been conditioned through repetition, through fear, through conformity, conversion and so on to believe they are Muslims, and you have been conditioned, programmed for three to five thousand years as Hindus. Thought has divided this - right? - not culture. Culture belongs to all humanity, not just Indian culture. I wont go into all that. So you, as a Hindu, and the Muslim are at war - not actually killing each other but when there is a riot you burst out, you are violent. So thought has divided people. Right? You understand? I am French or British - for God’s sake, it’s all so childish, all this! So, the speaker is saying - don’t accept it, question it, doubt it, tear it to pieces. Find out for yourself if there is an action which is completely without division, separation, which is not based on thought.
If I may, if you’ll forgive me, forgive the speaker if he uses the word, introduces the word ‘love’. I’m not talking of physical pleasure which we call love. That may be natural or unnatural, whatever that is. I don’t want to go into this question very deeply because it’s a very, very complex thing, what love is. Love is not based on knowledge, love is not the product of thought. Love is not pleasure and so on. When there is that quality of love, there is an action which is holistic, which is whole. Full stop!
I thank u on behalf of all..for Ur kind reply :)
By
knowledge is not limited atvkeast notball aspects of it
His repetitions are thoughts going in circles and circles ..n ..circles...
LOL, U EVEN LISTEN ?? XD
Correct. That is the nature of thought. Cyclical or circular. That is why it is limited in another way.
Best to drop it.
@@menoutube Who is to be a dropper?😁
On the one hand, you are right, but on the other hand, there is no other way of communication. Even though he uses words and repeats it, he always does it a little with other examples.
Besides, if you can hear it repeating over and over again, this may not be your time for such things
Doing my glasses I have them all the time probably not where are you glasses😊p😊
But how to do that??
He always said that there is no answer to the question how? Just look and let the answer emerge from you without analyzing✋😁
So much cough in deciples
I happen to think thoughts happen to me.
Phillip Wilcher: I doubt there can be any dispute with your statement that 'your thoughts occur to you'. Even so, it is possible there is a questionable assumption in that statement implied by it's linguistic structure.
Such a statement may be taken to imply (by the speaker and / or the reader) the *prior* existence of a 'me' to whom the thought occurs. That is, it implies the one to whom thought occurs existed beforehand, and will continue to exist after the thought.
But your statement obscures the possibility that the one to whom the thought occurs does not exist independently of the thought, but instead co-arises with the thought. So that once the thought is over, the one to whom the thought occurred disappears likewise.
@@CollaterlieSisters so nice
. Can I have your email id please?
23:35 haha 😂
The one who perceives needs not act
What is thought?I'll await your answer... hahaha
The wisdom of knowledge is the doubt of knowledge and the limit of knowledge
The answer to what is thought? May surprised you...
He should have focused on eating food and exercise to have good body.
Did he tell you he has a problem with his body?
Thank you
🙏🙏🙏
Thank you