I love this movie. Fast Eddie Felson is slick but vulnerable. I really feel for him when he gets hustled by Forrest Whittaker. And I like the ending. Cruise is great in that Werewolf of London scene. This is Scorsese’s commercial movie but it’s a damn good one.
Certainly it wasn’t purposefully dated, but the soundtrack doesn’t have the same kind of timelessness one finds in many of his other works (such as Mean Streets or GoodFellas).
Wild World Of Sports played pool back way before the 80s and ESPN ever did fyi. I'm a Pool Player so I as many of my kindred spirits see All the Flaws in this movie and it's attempts to "Showcase" Pool. It did however start a great surge in the 80s for the industry. The Hustler on the other hand actually showcased 14.1 far better than The Color Of Money did with 9 Ball. With the one exception of Martin Scorsese explaining the goal and simplicity thought process (for the Bangers not a compliment AKA Beginners) of how 9 Ball is played (this was likely because most Bangers only knew of their versions of 8 Ball). Anyway, glad you're doing this on these 2 movies. May I suggest adding in The Shooting Gallery (not great but a "Poolish" movie). Baltimore Bullet Poolhall Junkies Walk Away Joe
I'm not sure the carry-over from the Hustler was fully understood here. It's something of a lesson for all of us when we were young. You can (and probably should!) be a different person when you're 25 years past your early 20s. There are some sparks and triggers that can transport you back, but you are past living off the events of that life. And how Eddie treats his girlfriend is due in part to what happened to his love interest in The Hustler. The movie didn't show literal flashbacks, which a modern sequel surely would, but it's all over Eddie's face throughout. As sure as the old pool hall which became a furniture warehouse, so Eddie has changed. His compulsive nature is trying to break through, but there's no place for that in 1986. Eddie is developing the girlfriend, not Vince who is too childish. It's a film open to plenty of interpretation, but it's a great piece of cinema.
This is not the best Scorcese film in my opinion, that honour goes to Goodfellas. However, this by far my favourite Scorcese film. The performances were exactly where they needed to be. I think that Fast Eddie being the only connection to The Hustler plays in this film's favour. Anybody could watch this film without having already seen The Hustler and not lose anything from it.
Btw, Helen Shaver referenced Character based on Eddie's withdrawal from the tourney after Vincent's admission of "a dive". She respected Eddie's will to EARN his place and wins which Vince destroys as payback for Eddie's false motives for the entire Journey. It wasn't for Vince, or Carmen. He knew they were his ticket back. Alcohol, ego, Rusty instincts and physical decline in the faster BANGERS game, added the only challenge Eddie was unprepared for. Even Vince not falling into student mode topped by Carmen sexually acting out as a finger to her controlling bf, like Eddie says..."CHILDCARE!". Well, in The Hustler... Eddie was the kid. He once felt the need, The need for...glasses.
Interesting.... I've always felt that when Newman's character got hustled by Whitaker's it was a breaking point for Felson. I don't think he figured out that he was being hustled until that last game they played. He had the bankroll to go on. He didn't have the spirit. Eddie prided himself on being that guy. The Hustler. The hustle started from that first natural conversation, and he missed it. He got comfortable for just a moment, and he got beat. Worse, he got hustled. Losing wasn't so bad. Getting hustled broke him. He no longer deserved to be the teacher if he could get fooled and schooled that easily. it is interesting to hear that there is a different take on that. I witnessed this pool underworld for a few years in my late teens/early 20's in late 80's/early 90's. They captured the reality of the pool rooms and some of the personalities you meet there in a way no other film about pool has. Most won't recognize the depth or the subtleties of much of what they are seeing here, which is why it is such an excellent piece of work by Scorsese, Newman and Cruise. There were quality players who were exactly as flaky and obnoxious as Vince. There were older players turned stake horses more arrogant and flawed than Felson (and prone to drinking too much and messing it all up). Some may see The Color of Money as not a perfect movie, but for those who have been there, this movie is unquestionably great.
Vincent is shown to be very good at hustling in the end. This makes me think that he was always hustling Eddie in some way. I mean, he's an idiot. But then he magically gets good at hustling with only three weeks on the road leading into Atlantic City? I think he played in Eddie's bar on purpose from the get go to draw Eddie in. This is also why Eddie loses to Forrest Whittaker's character on purpose. He wants to break away from Vincent and make it seem like he's over the hill. The only time we actually see the real Vincent and the real Eddie is at the very end when they're about to play each other to see who's actually better.
So u know, the film is an INTENDED shifting of one audience towards the other at MACH 5. Newman's crowd was NOT Cruise-enthused. Unfortunately, the speed-natured 70s and mid 80s had two to three yrs left of fuel prior to the CRASH Nirvana would smell with grunge, angst, depression, pills, the predesigned East vs West rap rage topped by O.J. and Kato proving that ridiculous Green Hornet crime show concept had no business on a TV screen, just like a White Bronco, Trial of the Century, riots, and the following horde of REALITY TV
Aw The Color of Money 1986 The Sequel to The Hustler 1961, Now Anyone Who Stars with Tom Cruise or Paul Newman After these Films has 6 Degrees of Separation to Willie Mosconi. Well More Like Top Gun Maverick. Fast Eddie Felson Paul Newman, Sledgehammer Vincent Tom Cruise.
I like that you guys get into a debate of the pool scene. Not the game, but swimming pool. As a person that was a competitive swimmer, it's noticeable Scorsese put so much effort into the pool scenes yet phoned it in on the swimming scene. No goggles, head bobbing around. If you love pool, it was probably admired the work put into the game scenes. If you love to swim, for about a minute you can't help but ask what is this unrealistic amateur bs?
I thought this movie was terrible and I just need a place to complain about it. The book had an explanation for fats returning. It made sense and it gave a lot of background to an old veteran returning to his game - pool - in a new way - 9-ball. There was a degree of mentorship and competition between the two in which Eddie lost over, and over, and over again, and each time he redoubled his efforts and lost again. It was a really good story arc that segued into Eddie trying to find a passion again. I understand that they couldn't do all of Eddie's side adventures by way of side jobs and entrepreneurship and explore his new romance and everything involved with that. But the movie just showed him as a manipulative old man who whines like a child every time he fails. Occasionally he makes weird, SA kinds of comments. The whole character of Vince was just supremely annoying compared to the really mellow, waning light era of life that the book was showing. I keep looking for some good discussion about why the movie is entirely unrecognizable from the book, but it doesn't seem to exist. Very frustrating given how disappointing this movie was after just finishing the book. Why it's considered a class, I don't know. There was the occasional cool shot of a pool table or action shot of someone shooting pool - otherwise, just shallow narrative and shallower characters.
You are being too kind to this crumby movie. I read that it was Paul Newman who scrapped the book plot and made it a trope about an old master and his young upstart student. You could watch "The Mechanic" for that type of story.
I just watched this tonight since I watched The Hustler last night. Well, now I know why I hated The Color Of Money when I first saw it at the theater upon its release. It’s a total downer of a movie, and I would consider it one of the lower points of the 80s which had lots of shitty movies.
Classic movie!
Great discussion on this film. Good points made by both of you.
I love this movie. Fast Eddie Felson is slick but vulnerable. I really feel for him when he gets hustled by Forrest Whittaker. And I like the ending. Cruise is great in that Werewolf of London scene. This is Scorsese’s commercial movie but it’s a damn good one.
Great vid. Just what I needed after watching this movie for the first time.
Why do you think this movie is more dated than other Scorsese films? Was it done on purpose?
Certainly it wasn’t purposefully dated, but the soundtrack doesn’t have the same kind of timelessness one finds in many of his other works (such as Mean Streets or GoodFellas).
Wild World Of Sports played pool back way before the 80s and ESPN ever did fyi.
I'm a Pool Player so I as many of my kindred spirits see All the Flaws in this movie and it's attempts to "Showcase" Pool.
It did however start a great surge in the 80s for the industry.
The Hustler on the other hand actually showcased 14.1 far better than The Color Of Money did with 9 Ball. With the one exception of Martin Scorsese explaining the goal and simplicity thought process (for the Bangers not a compliment AKA Beginners) of how 9 Ball is played (this was likely because most Bangers only knew of their versions of 8 Ball).
Anyway, glad you're doing this on these 2 movies.
May I suggest adding in
The Shooting Gallery (not great but a "Poolish" movie).
Baltimore Bullet
Poolhall Junkies
Walk Away Joe
I'm not sure the carry-over from the Hustler was fully understood here.
It's something of a lesson for all of us when we were young.
You can (and probably should!) be a different person when you're 25 years past your early 20s. There are some sparks and triggers that can transport you back, but you are past living off the events of that life.
And how Eddie treats his girlfriend is due in part to what happened to his love interest in The Hustler. The movie didn't show literal flashbacks, which a modern sequel surely would, but it's all over Eddie's face throughout.
As sure as the old pool hall which became a furniture warehouse, so Eddie has changed. His compulsive nature is trying to break through, but there's no place for that in 1986.
Eddie is developing the girlfriend, not Vince who is too childish.
It's a film open to plenty of interpretation, but it's a great piece of cinema.
video is gold
Love you guys❤
This is not the best Scorcese film in my opinion, that honour goes to Goodfellas. However, this by far my favourite Scorcese film. The performances were exactly where they needed to be. I think that Fast Eddie being the only connection to The Hustler plays in this film's favour. Anybody could watch this film without having already seen The Hustler and not lose anything from it.
Btw, Helen Shaver referenced Character based on Eddie's withdrawal from the tourney after Vincent's admission of "a dive".
She respected Eddie's will to EARN his place and wins which Vince destroys as payback for Eddie's false motives for the entire Journey.
It wasn't for Vince, or Carmen.
He knew they were his ticket back.
Alcohol, ego, Rusty instincts and physical decline in the faster BANGERS game, added the only challenge Eddie was unprepared for.
Even Vince not falling into student mode topped by Carmen sexually acting out as a finger to her controlling bf, like Eddie says..."CHILDCARE!".
Well, in The Hustler... Eddie was the kid.
He once felt the need,
The need for...glasses.
I like it it’s fun, it’s cool that he went for a less obtuse story arch , it’s more traditional Hollywood.
Interesting.... I've always felt that when Newman's character got hustled by Whitaker's it was a breaking point for Felson. I don't think he figured out that he was being hustled until that last game they played. He had the bankroll to go on. He didn't have the spirit. Eddie prided himself on being that guy. The Hustler. The hustle started from that first natural conversation, and he missed it. He got comfortable for just a moment, and he got beat. Worse, he got hustled. Losing wasn't so bad. Getting hustled broke him. He no longer deserved to be the teacher if he could get fooled and schooled that easily. it is interesting to hear that there is a different take on that.
I witnessed this pool underworld for a few years in my late teens/early 20's in late 80's/early 90's. They captured the reality of the pool rooms and some of the personalities you meet there in a way no other film about pool has. Most won't recognize the depth or the subtleties of much of what they are seeing here, which is why it is such an excellent piece of work by Scorsese, Newman and Cruise. There were quality players who were exactly as flaky and obnoxious as Vince. There were older players turned stake horses more arrogant and flawed than Felson (and prone to drinking too much and messing it all up). Some may see The Color of Money as not a perfect movie, but for those who have been there, this movie is unquestionably great.
Felson's breaking points were his thumbs but fair play.
At least at the places in Chicago I used to hang out at.
Vincent is shown to be very good at hustling in the end. This makes me think that he was always hustling Eddie in some way.
I mean, he's an idiot. But then he magically gets good at hustling with only three weeks on the road leading into Atlantic City? I think he played in Eddie's bar on purpose from the get go to draw Eddie in.
This is also why Eddie loses to Forrest Whittaker's character on purpose. He wants to break away from Vincent and make it seem like he's over the hill. The only time we actually see the real Vincent and the real Eddie is at the very end when they're about to play each other to see who's actually better.
Saying low grade is crazzyyyyyyyy
Scorcese is pronounced Score sayzee not Score cc. A consensus is general by definition.
So u know, the film is an INTENDED shifting of one audience towards the other at MACH 5.
Newman's crowd was NOT Cruise-enthused.
Unfortunately, the speed-natured 70s and mid 80s had two to three yrs left of fuel prior to the CRASH Nirvana would smell with grunge, angst, depression, pills, the predesigned East vs West rap rage topped by O.J. and Kato proving that ridiculous Green Hornet crime show concept had no business on a TV screen, just like a White Bronco, Trial of the Century, riots, and the following horde of REALITY TV
Aw The Color of Money 1986 The Sequel to The Hustler 1961, Now Anyone Who Stars with Tom Cruise or Paul Newman After these Films has 6 Degrees of Separation to Willie Mosconi. Well More Like Top Gun Maverick. Fast Eddie Felson Paul Newman, Sledgehammer Vincent Tom Cruise.
Bald guy gets it.
That’s really a good life lesson more than anything, IMHO.
Tom Cruise feels the same way in Top gun Maverick
If he can resurrect Pete “Maverick” Mitchell, no doubt he can do the same for Vincent. The question is: who do we cast as the young pool shark?
@@blindbuymedia7798Mini Me from Austin Powers?
I like that you guys get into a debate of the pool scene. Not the game, but swimming pool. As a person that was a competitive swimmer, it's noticeable Scorsese put so much effort into the pool scenes yet phoned it in on the swimming scene. No goggles, head bobbing around. If you love pool, it was probably admired the work put into the game scenes. If you love to swim, for about a minute you can't help but ask what is this unrealistic amateur bs?
I thought this movie was terrible and I just need a place to complain about it.
The book had an explanation for fats returning. It made sense and it gave a lot of background to an old veteran returning to his game - pool - in a new way - 9-ball. There was a degree of mentorship and competition between the two in which Eddie lost over, and over, and over again, and each time he redoubled his efforts and lost again. It was a really good story arc that segued into Eddie trying to find a passion again.
I understand that they couldn't do all of Eddie's side adventures by way of side jobs and entrepreneurship and explore his new romance and everything involved with that. But the movie just showed him as a manipulative old man who whines like a child every time he fails. Occasionally he makes weird, SA kinds of comments. The whole character of Vince was just supremely annoying compared to the really mellow, waning light era of life that the book was showing.
I keep looking for some good discussion about why the movie is entirely unrecognizable from the book, but it doesn't seem to exist. Very frustrating given how disappointing this movie was after just finishing the book. Why it's considered a class, I don't know. There was the occasional cool shot of a pool table or action shot of someone shooting pool - otherwise, just shallow narrative and shallower characters.
You are being too kind to this crumby movie. I read that it was Paul Newman who scrapped the book plot and made it a trope about an old master and his young upstart student. You could watch "The Mechanic" for that type of story.
@@BeefT-Sqfinally, someone who seee what I see. This movie is SO BAD
Thats your burner account buddy
I just watched this tonight since I watched The Hustler last night. Well, now I know why I hated The Color Of Money when I first saw it at the theater upon its release. It’s a total downer of a movie, and I would consider it one of the lower points of the 80s which had lots of shitty movies.
Paralysis from analysis. Its not that complicated of a film.