Stranger Things Has One MAJOR Issue
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Stranger Things 4 was a true return-to-form for the series, following two mediocre seasons. The new season is excellent, but has one significant problem holding the entire series back: the amount of plot armor covering every major character. The lack of threat to almost all of the main characters cheapens the suspense of an otherwise thrilling show.
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#strangerthings #strangerthings4 #strangerthingsseason4 #strangerthingseleven #videoessay #strangerthingsreview #strangerthingshopper #strangerthingsplotarmor
Despite the plot armor problem, Stranger Things 4 was about as good as I could have hoped for.
What did you think of the season? Will you be back for Season 5 or have you moved away from Hawkins?
I cried when Max died I was heartbroken but when I saw she was in a coma I felt a little hoodwinked and that over shadowed my grief for the character
Not exactly. For me personally, I liked how they handled Max this season and had her go through all the things that definitely needed to happen to her this season and we’re definitely things that needed to be addressed from the last season. Such as if she’s grieving over the loss of Billy. And the way they handle her conflicting emotions with this internal conflict was only handled in the best way the show could handle it.
And besides, if the Duffers really wanted to go through with killing off Max, then they wouldn’t have added all those scenes where everyone else, including Lucas are deeply considered for her mental health. And it’s only through them that she’s able to reconcile the happy memories she ended up making through her relationships between the other characters that she was able to get past Vecna the first time.
The narrative justification for Max surviving and currently being in a comatose state for the time being is so there can be satisfaction with not only her ark of getting past her grief not only being concluded when she finds new happiness in seeing the group as her new family, but it sends a very important preset message about how you can make it through the other side of grief if you have loved ones to help support you through it.
It also doesn’t take a lot of critical thinking for someone who’s experienced similar issues Max has had to understand what it’s saying on a thematic level about the importance of overcoming grief with the help of loved ones. It’s saying that as long as you realize of the happy memories of those who still love you and care deeply about your well being, you’re reminded of more reasons for why your life is still worth living even if you’ve had it incredibly hard. Max’s ark throughout the series with learning to trust others who care deeply about her and open herself up again after her hard family life with her step-brother and being more opened and happy around those who care about her and can act as her new, healthier, more loving family and friends, is the antithesis of Bojack in Bojack Horseman, when after everything he went through in that entire seires, he still made it out through the other end in one piece. Bojack came to terms with his previous behavior through the show, came to terms with the fact that his parents had the worst influence on him, came to terms with the fact that he’ll never be able to undo all the hurt he’s caused, and yet when it all seemed liked his fate was sealed, he’s given another chance at living life in a content state again and made it out of all his worst opticals in one piece.
That’s one example of what they’ve done with Max in this season, as well as her character ark as a whole, much like how Bojack’s life seemed to have had light at the other end of the tunnel for him to live content with his life again in spite of everything he went through, a very similar thing is going on with Max, except unlike Bojack, her friends all stood thick and thin when they were the first ones to notice when she was closing herself off, and reminding her of all those happy memories they can continue making together. This season establishes very very explicitly that the gang is instrumental to Max’s happiness and well-being through this narrative. Lucas and El more specifically, but the rest of the gang care just as much about her, and the fact that Max went out of her way to make letters for everyone in the main cast in case she didn’t make it says volumes to the importance of her understanding the undeniable care the group show’s towards her well-being, safety, and happiness. I dislike this sentiment of believing that major characters the show sets up to kill off only to cop out of it is unfair to said major characters getting to perform a heroic sacrifice to conclude their ark is copping out of killing off said major characters. I’m not saying that going through with a major character deaths would make me personally upset or anything like that, but their should be enough narrative justification to support it, as well as tact and grace and still being responsible towards the character. I think that’s the general exception for when they kill off major characters who’s arks revolve around protection of humanity at all costs. You can even find examples of that in Marvel’s best films to see that for yourself.
And to be blunt about it; you can come up with good narrative justifications to killing off major characters in your work. I do in fact see this happening in Stranger Thing’s’ series finale with characters like Will, Steve, and El who’ll all probably sacrifice themselves for either a lot of other characters or the entirety of Hawkens. There’s enough narrative justification to support it. At the same time however, it is still a double edge sword to kill off other characters with more narrative justification for sacrificing themselves for the rest of the main cast and all of Hawkens. I’m of course talking about if they were to kill off El, Will, or Steve, which seem to be the rest of the fandom is placing most of their bets on who in the main cast dies since they’ve all been there from the beginning. There will be immeasurable grief stricken in the rest of the cast. Especially Mike, Joyce and Jonathan, and everyone else who formed incredible relationships with Steve. I don’t know, I personally don’t want any of them to die after everything they went through and they should all get the happy ending they deserve, as well as more exiting adventures in the potential spin offs for the characters.
Killing off anymore characters is unfair to the fans who already couldn’t already handle the deaths of one offs that fans were always head over heals in love with. And from what I can tell, fans have quite the field day expressing their immeasurable disappointment in how the Duffers continue to use those characters as sacrificial lambs so that the main cast with more experience in surviving and a ton of plot armor can survive.
I’ve seen this way too many times to count with this fandom. Hot take; a lot of the one offs don’t resonate strongly enough as the main cast. With very few exceptions this season and compared to previous seasons. I don’t want the Duffers to cheat deaths of those characters, because that removes stakes and consequences for the story in the hopes of the main cast surviving.
This topic I have for the plot armor argument is honestly more complex then what sense I’m trying to make out of it. I’d like to discuss what any of you guys think about this in the comments with me.🙂😉
@@elisd7099 bro how many paragraphs did you write 😳
@@thefakevadermater7468 whole college essay
@@elisd7099its a plot armour show and its crap for it no matter what anyone says its a low stakes trash show after season 1 its trash
I’m so happy the actors are saying they want their characters to die that made me feel special in my heart. 🥺💙🖤
As for the Plot Armor discussion, I would like to bring to everyone's attention, that Steve, Nancy, and Robin were strangled by vines on a wall...for thirty minutes!!! I felt like I was watching Samwell Tarly squirming on top of a pile of wights.
Vecna's grip strength is dog. That's why he has to use his cheap telekinetic abilities
That’s one issue I have with the introduction of Eddie. The character is awesome, but it feels like they just swapped him in to die in place of Steve because they knew people wouldn’t like Steve dying. Yes, they established his pattern of running away throughout the season, yet the situation he died in wasn’t one where he needed to stay back and fight (though I suppose it was the heat of the moment and so he acted irrationally). It’s a bit stale to have these one-off characters come in, the audience likes them, then they kill them to keep the main cast of characters alive and we move on. Only Joyce cared about Bob dying, only Murray cared about Alexei dying, and only Dustin and Eddie’s uncle cared about Eddie dying. It feels like there’s not enough of an emotional toll when the stakes have supposedly been raised
I understood his decision as heat of the moment, but I still think the Duffer Brothers could've given his death at least a little more substance. It was so painstakingly obvious he was set up to die, but they did it in a way it wasn't even logical/underwhelming. It's definitely stale and I don't know why everyone was so emotionless after the 2 day jumpskip. It was just weird because even Dustin was chilling. The scene with his uncle really killed me though, I'll give them that
They did the same with Billy. They introduce these bad ass characters later to kill them. The plot armor of the main kids is too much. I mean this is fucking up Vecna too.. he is supposed to be this scary dude who will end the world but he can't even kill one little girl (Max).
The things is while I can totally see someone’s point of Max should’ve died. Her whole arc was overcoming depression and realizing her life was worth living so to end that where she’s brutally killed off is so cruel and super unsatisfying.
How the show did Eddie was foul, he didn’t have to fight the demobats but they made him do these unnecessary measures to prove that he’s not afraid while everyone else gets a free pass and plot armor. How did Steve, Nancy and Robin survive those vines after being straggled for so long? Things like that could be brushed easily to me, but I’m tired of side characters being used as stakes so that the main cast can shine and live happily ever after
Max's death didn't make any sense. She was blind and talking and then 2 DAYS LATER (wtf, guys) she's in a coma? I found the entire "in Soviet Russia" story arch annoying. I like those actors, glad they have a job, but Geez, it was like the Yakov Smirnoff variety show. Also, why does Suzie live in a Wes Anderson film? Yeah, the cast could use some thinning. Nice video; you provide an honest analysis.
The Russia bit felt like a way for the writers to remove the only knowledgeable adults from the main story so they didn't need to fool around with the "hey, don't do that, kids. Leave it to the adults" with the kids side-stepping them. That's not a bad thing either - I think it was a clever way to do it. Eventually the "kids going around the adults to save the day" trope gets played out, and Stranger Things has had quite a bit of that already.
I straight up laughed when max said she couldn’t see or MOVE anything . like then how are you talking 🫢
Are you guys dense? Nothing about it was illogical. Vecna harmed her arms, legs, and eyes. Her body went into shock. Why tf would she not be able to talk?
@@lamb9770 2 Days later, she’s in a coma, normally a condition associated with being unable to speak. Plus, when 11 checks in on her psychically, no one is there. There was no Max, inside Max.
@GLaDOS either way it doesnt matter because when you can’t feel anything it means your nerves aren’t working, which means your brain isn’t sending/receiving accurate information therefore not allowing you to move. Like that’s how paralysis works
If they "retconned hopper's death" it happened way before season 4. He was alive and in russia at the end of the same season 3 episode that he "died" in.
You sure? I just checked and he dies, then Eleven reads the letter from him and cries, then the season ends. The post-credit scene is just showing that the Russians have a Demogorgon. Nothing about Hopper.
I think he was in the trailer, so maybe that's what you're thinking of?
@@BrickKildaguy the Russians say "feed it a prisoner. not the American". meaning Hopper.
@@xulent Okay true, they do say that. It's not a true retcon then - just a normal audience bamboozling. I don't think most people thought "the American" was Hopper in that scene, considering scientists in suits were further away from the blast and got obliterated.
Whichever way you cut it, the point is still the same. THICCC plot armor to survive that.
@@BrickKildaguy Actually, most people thought the prisoner was Hopper. A minority theorized that it could be Brenner, but I would say the significant majority was sure it were Hopper. And we ended up being right. But you're correct about the plot armor thing.
I wanted Max to die so badly the build up was perfectly handled. But she kept being saved just to be in the exact same position with the villain 3 more times. After that I just gave up and I knew she wasn’t going to die, and I started to not care about her anymore as a human being.
Now I know regardless what they go towards now they’re going to keep being saved over and over and over again. 😶
Thank you for pointing this out in such a thoughtful, constructive manner. I honestly thought they were going to kill off Steve with his red flag dream of having a family. It would have tremendous impacts to the story, though he's too much of a favorite character for the creators to actually be ballsy enough to do it
Yep, he would've been a great character to send off but Joe Keery sells for them, why would they get rid of their moneymaker?
EXACTLY. From a viewer perspective, I'm glad that Steve didn't die in Season 4 because it would've been too sad. However, from a plot perspective, Steve definitely should have died instead of Eddie. The scene where Dustin holds Eddie as he dies just wasn't that impactful for me because in the context of the story, they had really only been close for like 2 days (they knew each other before that from D&D club but barely interacted, and when they did, it wasn't very deep). Whereas with Steve, we have seen his relationship with Dustin bloom over the last 3 seasons and it would have been infinitely more moving to have him be the one to go. The "I love you's" Dustin and Eddie exchanged would have been gut-wrenching if it had been Dustin and Steve, and Steve dying before Season 5 would have served an important plot device: a kind-of send off for the kids. As in "your big brother is gone, you're older now, I've helped you in the past but you must face this final battle on your own."
Who I wanted to die by the finale: Max, Steve, and Hopper
ur SICK for including the noah and doja beef 😭😭
The only non-“happily ever after” ending I can foresee, is Eleven sacrificing herself to save everybody. Tbh, I kinda think that’s where the show’s heading. But it’ll be at the end of the last episode, then we’ll have 15-20 mins of aftermath, and then that’ll be it. Character development borne of loss is always fascinating to watch - it’s why Batman and Spider Man are so popular - but we’ll miss out on all of it. It’s a shame really.
My issue is even if they do kill off characters in season 5....what will it mean? It's really too late now because now if they kill people off I hope it's not in a "game of thrones" type way to where they kill off main characters just cuz they can now. On the other hand tho, I don't know too much about the spinoffs, but rather the main characters die or not, it's probably the last time we were going to see them regardless. That's why I would've rather a main character died here (*cough* Steve*cough*), or leave Hopper dead so when we go into the following season there will be this sense of Suspense. And I love Steve as much as everyone else does, but that's why I wanted him to go. It didn't even need to be him, but I like the feeling of my favorite main characters being in danger, because I have an emotional attachment to what's going on. Idk maybe I just had too high of expectations to the supposed "sCArIeSt sEAsoN"
Weird to say but I hope some of the characters die next season I lowkey don’t want a happy perfect ending it’ll be so cheesy
Notice the shift from dark, drab season 1-2, then colorful, fun season 3? The writers bit too hard off The Trusty Butter Knife and it backfired. (Useless characters, plot a mess)
They wanted to kill Max and they really should have. The episode was building toward killing her. Especially with those letters to her loved ones.
Noah didn't overacted he delivered a true heartwarming moment
100% agree- I was so excited with the amped up horror elements this season, but watching every character make it out okay in the final two episodes was just a total buzzkill. It's not like I WANT anyone to die, it was just about having the stakes realistically catch up to them. After all, they're just kids and Vecna is supposed to be the Upside down's god basically, but it didn't feel that way. Everything just always magically aligns, even though Russia, California, and Hawkins are in 3 different time zones, and it's just overplayed at this point. I didn't want Eddie to die, I really liked his character and I would've been okay with him replacing a main character this season. Max is of course gone but even then the fact that 11 brought her back felt like the writers were just laughing at us and not taking the show seriously.
I know a major issue it has… it answered many questions us fans have been longing answers to, but those answers we got left us with even MORE questions than we had before! Hope next season we’ll get most of our questions answered. Not all of our questions, knowing the answer to everything takes the fun out of the mystery. What I’ve realized is everything kind of revolves around the mind, so I’m hoping we’ll get a nice, evidential explanation about all this stuff that has to do with the mind. I’m also hoping we’ll get an episode that’s titled “the mind”
One of the reasons why season 1 is so good is because there’s lots of mystery. That mysterious vibe it pulls off makes it great, and really fun. Maybe we don’t necessarily need an explanation as to how henry/whoever got his powers, after all…
I agree they have had plot armor up until this point, but I still think they are going to kill off a couple of main characters in the final season. My bets would be on Steve or Hopper, maybe even Eleven or Will if they go for a bittersweet ending. I've never viewed Stranger Things as a horror show, I view it as fantasy with horror elements in it.
I saw Max "die" but instantly knew she wasnt and that she's going to be alright in s5. I mean they couldnt/wouldnt kill Hopper in s3. I mean Eddie's death didnt really mean much as much as I loved the character since no one even saw him die but Dustin, and I felt like Eddie's death could've totally been avoided
She might not be alright in Season 5. It looks like they're not going to kill her, but she was really badly injured. It would actually be disappointing to me if she emerged from that without a scratch somehow. Eleven doesn't seem to be able to do that.
I thought this as Steve lives but Eddie dies when bitten by the bats. Also the twist of Max being brought back but it technically let Vecna open his 4th gate.
FOR ANYONE WHO READS MY THEORY THANK YOU AND SHARE!!
If we look at it in a darker light, season 5 could be prepping to kill off some mains, Max is almost dead and if her injuries are anything to note she is not gonna be fine for the 5th season, she is blind and invalid... that isnt much help against Vecna, the only way she could be brought back and be useful is if 11 somehow magically can restore her sight... minimum, so odds are, Max finally dies, might cause Lucas to die in some heroic way for her
as for the young adult members of the cast, they are kind of harder to place, Steve is kind of a can and cant die, and his possible death could lead to very different endings for Nancy and John, whereas Robin really doesnt affect much to the main cast, and honestly dont think she would get killed off anyway,
yay for her happy ending with the other girl xD,
in Nancy and Johns case, I dont think either would die, they are core to the show and have done a lot more of the work (mostly nancy) in actually helping the children and also in confronting Dr.Brenner and Vecna more directly, they might not get their happy ending, all depending on how they treat john in the 5th season, and also could be affected by steves possible death
when thinking of Steve's death, it could happen in various ways, he is like Hopper, in the sense that he seems to always put himself in danger, he almost bit the dust in the 4th season when he was attacked by the bats, which that attack can always come to bite back in season 5, like as with Will in season 2, Steve might be infected either by a demo-parasite or worse the mind flyer, and why his death could affect john and nancy is because steve could also meet a heroic end defending nancy, causing nancy to have mixed emotions about her relationship with john,
dont get me wrong, john and nancy are def still gonna be friends but their relationship will eventually have a falling out, besides with all the college talk in season 4 it seems like they're being setup to break up, and maybe steves death could be that little push that snaps john and nancy's love
now Will, eleven, dustin and mike, its hard to say, i think like in robins case, dustin is going to be fine, scarred for the rest of his life after losing a lot of his best friends, but he'll live.
will and 11 are the most difficult, one of them is going to die (or neither but that has to do with mike), will and 11 started it all,
will, being taken by vecna to become his new vessel, needs to get a form of closure with his story from seasons 1 and 2 and they are setting him up to be romantically interested in mike, so its very hard to say how his end will go, will he finally be taken by vecna? maybe die in the process? or will he live and finally reveal his true feelings and identity as a homosexual? and even if he lives, he might not get his happy ending with the person he truly loves...
11, our hero, but also a curse, with her incredible power she opened the gate to the upside-down giving vecna a place to grow more powerful with 0 competition and so its is only 11 who can put an end to everything, she must be the one to deal the final blow, and she might have to kill will in the process ,which will drastically affect her relationship with mike, the only other ending in these scenarios is that she sacrifice herself to close all connections to the upside down and kill vecna and maybe save Will
and lastly mike,
his end is going to be sad in these scenarios, either he loses his bestest friend or he loses his love, or even he might die, bringing a sad close for will and 11 both losing their love, he either dies directly confronting Vecna to save either 11 or Will or both, or ends up only being able to save one of them, most likely saving Will because 11 must destroy Vecna
if he dies the rest of the cast will all split up for the most part, with the exception of Jim and Joyce who will probably live and stick together,
in the event that Mike dies and 11 and Will make it, 11 and Will, Jim and Joyce will probably all stick together as a family for the most part, excluding possible career or education choices made by the younger 2,
Jim and Joyce have suffered a lot and will probably have to suffer a lot more, they have shared trauma and have done way too much together to just die, and besides even if it comes down to either Will or 11's death, they are going to have to live because Jim and Joyce are Mother and Father to both kids...
There are four portals opened - not three.
Max should be dead-dead.
$10 says she'll probably die next season.
Max has already made it clear she was ready to go,
Plus, going from being physically active to being blind/crippled isn't going to sit well with astral-Max once El informs her of the predicament.
But she is dead
@@derfnam6627 Max is technically in a coma.
IRL, this means there is a slim chance she could wake up as long as they don't unplug her. This could take days. Or decades. Or never.
I can't tell if that beat is sampling Orcarina of Time or Attack on Titan.
Always a great feeling when someone has the same opinion as me, couldn't finish the last two episodes after they kept surviving what should have been lethal
make your videos longer im trying to sleep to them
The death of Hopper wasn't as sure as your statements presents it. In the "end credit scenes" of season 3, russian prison guards refer to an inmate as "the american". Pretty much everyone I know knew from that point on that Hopper would return.
Edit: Saw that people already pointed this out and you've replied to it, but I'm just a random viewer who just subbed to you and binged your vids, so... *shrug*. Keep at it :)
so THAT'S what the demogorgon was for 🤣
The only bad thing with stranger things was the way hopper got taken by the russians, Otherwise I dont see any problems with the series.
I would rank the series as follows:
3
4
1
2
Stunning that you don't have 1 first
I think Stranger Things ran into the same problem that Game of Thrones ran into: Towards the end, you have to slow down on the character kills. Killing Vecna is obviously going to be a group effort, so you can't kill of characters willy-nilly.
I have to admit, though, I was a little disappointed that they didn't kill Max off outright. They appear to be setting her up to be revived, even though she appears to be braindead. (Eleven goes into her mind in the end, and nobody's home.) I think killing Max off would've been a better move. She fulfilled her character arc.
And the fact that Hopper didn't die just makes me angry. Harbour is a great actor, so I'm not surprised they didn't want to kill his character off, but that thread didn't really add anything to the story. It made about as much sense for the story as the Canto Bight sequence in The Last Jedi.
Oh you're telling that stranger things is becoming dragon ball z ,at this point
Great video but didn’t they foreshadow that hopper was still alive in the last episode of season 3. I could be wrong but I swear there is an after credit scene where the Russians are talking about the “American”
They did. Someone pointed that out so it wasn't a true retcon. Just a regular bamboozle. I didn't assume "the American" was Hopper on my first watch and didn't watch any trailers, so I found out he was alive this season.
Either way, there were scientists in full suits further from the blast than he was and they got obliterated, so the point is still the same.
Great points
You don't mention that 11 died and came back in the same fashion as Hopper in season one and two. Not sure why the actress playing 11 is complaining when if the show wanted to keep it real from the start 11 would have died at the end of season 1.
Well I mean obviously 11 wasn't going to really die. The show hinges on her.
@@BrickKildaguy Only because they let her live. I get what you are saying but I look at the show from a Star Trek point of view. Why waste the main cast when there are so many red shirts.
I disagree with most of this. Characters lacking utility is something better writing can fix without just killing more people.
Sure, but that's not the only problem. I think the main issue is that, with this level of plot armor, it takes the suspense out of a lot of the scenes.
It's not a clean comparison, but in shows like Ozark or Breaking Bad - where only one or two characters are truly safe - there's a lot more anxiety present in tense situations.
Maybe I'm the only one but I didn't really like season 4 apart from Eddie & Steve... I feel like all the following characters are useless: Mike (what's his point? his character does nothing and the actor is getting less and less interesting with age IMO), Will (another token LGBT character which adds nothing to the plot), Argyle (really annoying character, very cliché), Jonathan (what the hell happened to his poor character?), Winona Ryder (forgot her character's name already, she always makes weird faces and doesn't do much), Mike's sister character, Lucas, the quirky mormon girlfriend, even the jock, even Dustin is meh. I didn't get why Papa was back really, the black Darth Vader guy is boring too. I'd pay to see more Erica, Robin (but tune down the over the top stuff) , Steve, Eddie, bring back Dacre Montgomery, MIke's mom was awesome (his dad also btw), more Murray, more adults from the school maybe? I liked the Vecna actor a lot but not the character, I found it quite generic. I adored the actor playing him in interviews he was even better as a person than an actor
Steve should have died so many times. Hopper should be dead. And I agree that a lot of the characters are useless or redundant, but I do think Will will be important in the next season since he has a connection to Vecna that the others don't have.
If any of the main characters has to die, my vote is for Mike. He's the "leader," important to El and generally annoying so it would be both impactful to the others and satisfying to not have to see him any more. They can kill Nancy too.
I agree about Will. He's the only one other than Eleven who seems like he'll have something to do with the ending
They should've killed several people:
- Nancy was standing right in front of Vecna; only resorting to the tired old trope of "I'll let you live so you can deliver my message" saved her skin. A creature like Vecna should be beyond petty little human motivations like vengeance anyway.
- Jonathan should've been shot when they picked up El. Just use the FBI agent's death as foreshadowing. There was no 'cost' attached to her retrieval.
- Dustin's demise would've hit Lucas, Mike and Will like a brick. Also, nobody would've expected it.
- As an added bonus (that would however require the Duffer Brothers to grow some serious gonads), Vecna should've snapped El's neck mid-villain monologue. Take away the safety net / deus ex machina to set up a tremendously bleak final season. Transfer some agency over to Will whose connection to the Upside Down hasn't been explored one bit; make him the unexpected hero instead of severely overhyped El AND MBB (whose acting range doesn't seem to exceed early 90's Keanu Reeves).
So...basically shock value garbage? K
@@GodofHatred So you're fine with impervious plot armor, no stakes whatsoever and an ever growing roster of characters leading to 20+ people somehow getting out of dangerous situations in one piece. I guess, you're the perfect mindless consumer then. Kudos to you.
@@tutorialslave Never said that. I even agree that Stranger Things has too much plot armor yet mindlessly killing off characters isn't good either. You just become desensitized to it after awhile
@@GodofHatred After awhile? They've never done that. Why not prop up Vecna as a believable threat that way? That's one of two purposes such an approach would serve.
@@tutorialslave Killing off these characters wouldn't serve a purpose to the narrative whatsoever. It would literally just be there to make you gasp and be what I said; shock value.
max and hopper didnt die for a reason so thats a bit of an L take
I dont know why but I am the only one who loved s3 and hated s4.
Noice
I think your opinion cheapens the sacrificial lamb in the series. Everyone that has dead or “dead” made us wishing they didn’t. Hopper death was telling us the main character don’t have plot armor that they are vulnerable. If you kill of characters left and right it would be hard to make an enjoyable next season because you have to fill their roll or make the others characters grieve for the loss takeing up valueable screen time. I hated max in season 2/3. But showing her grieve for her mean brother made me like more. Then haveing her because a sacrificial lamb was great because you feel for her and group. Her “death” is a fate worse then death.
Max had to die in the cemetery. If she was levitated up, to the tune of Running Up That Hill, whilst her friends could do nothing but watch as she's mercilessly crunched and dropped like the other 2 we see, it would have matured the show immensely. It would have made Vecna feel like a real fucking threat. It's the same thing they did with Thanos killing Loki. It makes this villain feel dangerous, not just another template bad guy for the protagonists to beat.
Instead, Vecna hovers over Max for about 10 minutes where he killed the others instantly, and then she just runs out whilst he basically lets her. I get they wanted to demonstrate the music escape thing, but they could have done that in other ways, especially considering it literally WASNT EVEN USED AGAIN. That was the first and last time anyone escaped Vecna with music.
And then they kind of fucked it, when they realised that they wanted Vecna to open the 4 gates, but they'd accidentally already written the whole script with Max as one of the targets. So they had to kill Max...for a minute, and then Eleven just magically revives her?? They really really really didn't want to kill Max and it honestly makes the whole thing look childish.
Her entire arc was about overcoming depression and realizing her life was worth living. While I can understand your point, what part of brutally murdering her would've served her arc well? It would be immensely unsatisfying
@@GodofHatred it wouldn't have benefited her arc, but would have made the show far better. Remember, stranger things started off as a sort of horror series. Their villains need to feel genuinely threatening and dangerous. But as seasons have gone on, it's become more and more just silly comic relief with no real threat to any of the characters.
@@Valican11 How would it make the show better by killing off a character during their best arc? Max was the heart and soul of season 4, killing her in episode 4 during the absolute peak of her character would be a huge mistake
@@GodofHatred well my entire point is that I don't think Max should have been the heart and soul of season 4. I don't think stranger things should be like game of thrones, but since they are another shows who's willing to kill off main characters we'll compare them. If you aren't willing to kill off characters just because they are in an arc, then you have 0 threat in your show. In GoT they kill of Rob stark in the middle of his character arc, and he was one of the primary characters up until his death. His death's suddeness gave it weight. The issue stranger things has is its too scared to kill main characters, so they keep introducing a token side character to die instead. Barb, Bob, Eddie. These characters are just fodder whilst the main characters are untouchable
@@Valican11 If she wasn't she would've just been added to the copious amount of passengers in the show. She went through so much in Season 3 and afterwards,and not getting to see the vulnerable side of her character would be a waste. Vecna is basically a physical manifestation of her depression and her guilt over Billy's death. Seeing her run away from him and back to her friends was one of the most powerful scenes of the show. Killing off main characters just to kill them off isn't a good way to write a story. The suggestions of her death here wouldn't have served a purpose to the actual story and would've been just what I said in a previous comment: Shock Value.
about hopper: there was a post credits scene in stranger things 3.
I think you don't get that it's horror *fantasy* not just horror. The single biggest trope in fantasy (which includes comics and novels and such) is that no one stays dead. What drives the stakes in fantasy is not the effects on you, the observer, it's the effects on the other characters. What happens to Max is horrific and tragic and tear-jerking through its (incredibly acted!) effects on Lucas and Eleven.
Beyond that, when and if she comes back, we'll then share her experiences of being trapped and/or inhabited by Vecna which will be enormously more horrible than just death would have been. We saw this with Hopper and what he had to go through to come back from his 'death' and it will be even more intense with Max, I'm sure.
Anyone who's read Salvatore's Legends of Drizzt novels knows the death and return of Wulfgar and I see this as playing out no differently and knows his trauma both in 'death' and after was *intense!*
I don't need anyone to die to enjoy a show though.. DID you ever think to yourself that one of the Scooby gang should die? 🤔 should they have killed off chunk in the goonies to make it a memorable movie? Plot armor is ok if done right. I think they did great conveying a sence of danger while still keeping the characters alive. What I do miss is the d&d dynamic with the party group that was cute and gave me modern goonies vibes.
It doesn't ruin the show entirely, it just cheapens some of the suspenseful moments a bit. But this isn't Scooby-Doo. When was the last time someone's eyes bled in Scooby-Doo?
Let them all live it's way better that way
I personally thing ST kills off too many characters. Like even Bob’s death didn’t make sense he could’ve clearly fought back
Fuckin thank you! Why are all these people so murder happy. I like the safety of Stranger Things, and also hate the we gotta kill one beloved char every season schtick. If people want dark go watch Devilman Crybaby or Castle Rock, especially the end of the second season, that may be the reason I'm tired of "dark" endings in general.