Chuck was right; he may have been jealous of Jimmy, but he wasn’t wrong in anything he said. There wasn’t one season (or heck probably even an episode) Jimmy wasn’t harming people or attempting to harm people. The show is brilliant in that they make Chuck so petty/sick that you buy into Jimmy and Kim’s BS
Looking back Howard is the nicest person in the breaking bad universe he really just wanted the best for everyone even after Jimmy was an asshole to him for years Howard still liked him and wanted the best for him.
The show gives a completely different image when you realize that Jimmy is in his 40s and people want Chuck to be his caretaker and not have Jimmy take responsibility. Chuck isn't even an asshole tbh, he just did some asshole things.
He’s one of my favorite characters. He was the perfect opposing force to Jimmy. The order to jimmy’s chaos. After he died there was nothing holding jimmy back anymore
I wish I focused on his pre-lawyer scams a bit more in the video. Jimmy was who he was long before the show started, and Chuck's view of him is pretty justified based once the show starts going.
@@BrickKildaguy Yes, but he had plenty of opportunity to change. You know what prevented him from doing so? Chuck. Try to read between the lines a little for your next videos.
Jimmy has agency-he made his choices. Chuck was right. He may have accelerated the evoluation of Saul Goodman but he did not create him. That's on Jimmy.
@@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470I think that’s slightly different for the reason that Jimmy went out of his way to lie to Chuck’s insurance company in order to get them to drop him. Like Howard said, Chuck was genuinely getting better until that point, and then Jimmy pushed him over the edge, for no other reason than to end his brother’s life. That’s a bit different than Jimmy humiliating Chuck in court or Chuck ending his relationship with Howard in the most demeaning way he could. Jimmy genuinely wanted to harm Chuck, by any means necessary.
Um... he literally prevented Jimmy getting an amazingly well paid job, upholding the law, several times. And when Jimmy finally managed to get one of his own devices, Chuck bullied and forced him out of it by holding Kim as a hostage. What would you have done in that situation lmfao
I share the same opinion. The creators of the show have this uncanny ability to make the characters who actually really know the main characters better than anyone else and actually give good advices to the antihero meain characters hated by the viewer because they stay in the way of the true happyness and success of the antihero's criminal endeavors. Chuck was not there to negatively influence Jimmy to bakrupt his father and contribute to his death. It was not Chuck's influence or rejection that made Jimmy con people on the streets. It was not Chuck's rejection that made Jimmy collaborate with the two skaters who ended up with broken legs. The show clearly establishes that Jimmy was always doing these things and clearly etsablishes what would have happened in HHM if he would have gotten the job. The same thing that happened in Davis and Maine would have happened in HHM. Chuck;s dissaproval was just the justification Jimmy's ego needed to sink deeply into the Saul persona. Howard was put there as a literal contrast to Jimmy. Not even for a second, no matter how low Howard was, no matter how down in life he was, no matter how rejected by everyone Howard was- not for a second in Howard's mind was a thought that he should cut a shorcut. Before he died- he said that he would work out something and stand up again. It is very important to observe Howard's past: Howard also had a bad relationship with his father but unlike Jimmy Howard endured all of that. Howard admitted he wanted to be his own man, but his domeneering father dragged him into the law firm. Despite all of that Howard never broke bad. Jimmy decided to burry all his unresolved problems and deal with them in an unhealthy way. Howard as a contrast to Jimmy, openly grieved, suffered, went to shrinks but he refused to break bad. The soldier that confronted Jimmy in his office said it best: Jimmy thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that he could fool anyone and everyone is a sucker. Howard couldnt be broken. JImmy was always broken and Chuck was right. He could never be anything else but Slipping Jimmy. For all his faults Chuck was right about that.
It is so bizarre how people just refuse to put any responsibility on Jimmy. Like why doesn’t Jimmy have any responsibility for people thinking he never changes? He was a lifelong criminal, that were his own actions and choices but somehow he is the victim if people judge him on those choices? Jimmy somehow had no other choice but to become Saul because Chuck “hated” him. Somehow that forced Jimmy to become Saul, he magically has zero agency or free will. But somehow Chuck does have all the agency. He is not “forced” to hate Jimmy because Jimmy was a criminal his entire life, somehow he is expected to have free will and keep caring for Jimmy. Chuck is pure evil because he thought Jimmy was going to be a horrible lawyer. Somehow that makes it his fault that Jimmy became Saul. Chuck’s responsibilities toward Jimmy is somehow so immense that even his opinion about his law degree somehow is all determining for Jimmy’s moral choices. But then Jimmy has zero responsibility towards Chuck. Jimmy knew Chuck was mentally ill and was given dozens of opportunities to get Chuck help but he refused. Somehow he bears zero responsibility for that. In fact when Jimmy uses that mental illness against Chuck to keep his law license which ultimately causes his suicide somehow Jimmy has 0 responsibility for that. Somehow that is just fine and not caused directly by Jimmy’s actions. So scary how people think an addicting personality > morals. You can literally kill people as long as people like your personality.
Everything you said is wrong because Jimmy is hilarious and Kim Wexler is kind of hot. Chuck on the other hand is old and girlfriendless and says mean things to my favorite characters. Vince Gilligan is a genius!!!
I think he’s 20% right, as an older brother to someone, Chuck is such a shitty brother, Jimmy might have been doing bad things but he was genuinely trying to change, if Chuck really wanted to help Jimmy, he would’ve took him under his wing and showed him the good things Jimmy can get by doing good things, but all Chuck did was add fuel to fire and cemented the idea to Jimmy that doing the right thing will get you nowhere, Chuck has the shittiest approaches when it comes to relationships
And Vince Gilligan showed why. When their mother was dying Chuck as a perfect role model son was there, but Jimmy was missing and still their mom was worry about Jimmy and not showing much appreciation of Chuk being with her. I guess deep inside Chuck was annoyed that he put a lot of effort to be successful lawyer and a good son, but Jimmy got all the attention.
@Lev Stepchenko That’s not Jimmy’s fault. He’s the kid brother. I agree that Jimmy took shortcuts and tends to screw people over, and I understand that Chuck must of tried ad-nauseam to help Jimmy, but to screw Jimmy over like this? It would of been better if Chuck told Jimmy ALL of the issues he had with him and tried to help him stay away from Jimmy’s “slippin’ “ tendencies. Jimmy was really trying and if Chuck was truly honest with Jimmy and placated Jimmy’s positive progress, Saul may of not of been born. Don’t get me wrong. Chuck definitely had some good reasons and Jimmy has a very screwy side to him, but Chuck added oil to the fire instead of helping to put it out. He has a lot of fault in this and his job is to guide his kid brother, not harm him.
@@skillet9141 have you ever been in a situation where some one asked you for like a 10th or a 20th chance to earn your trust? Even after years of screwing you over, every time you trusted them, they wanted to say "No, this time I'm really trying." Siblings understand that in a way almost no one else does. Almost no one gets to know you so intimately and gets so stuck putting up with your bullshit for decades as siblings. Even married couples never really get that level of intimacy with someone who screws them over, because married couples just breakup after a certain level of bullshit. But siblings don't really get that. They've been connected since they were children and it's almost impossible to break the bond, no matter how many times they've had their trust betrayed. That's Chuck and Jimmy. Was Jimmy really trying this time? Maybe. But Chuck can remember probably hundreds, literally hundreds, of times Jimmy said was trying before, and in all those times Jimmy always relapses into compulsive lying. We the audience didn't see all those times, but Chuck did. And he's exhausted by it.
@@skillet9141 its from your perspective. From Chucks it might be that he was actually helping Jimmy by making obstacles in his lawyer career. Two things that were showing that Souls side will eventually win over Jimmy ( and Chuck saw it, and said it actually) 1. Jimmy doesn't like to follow the rules, and law is actually a set of rules which should be followed. 2. When Jimmy was hiding he couldn't give up doing illegal stuff. I'm sure that Chuck with his experience could see and understand right away who Jimmy might become, he just thought that he will give up on the way becoming a lawyer. We can even see that when Jimmy graduated, Chuck wasn't so happy about it, he tried to escape from the party and when Jimmy asked him to sing, he nailed it, it's some kind of a metaphor to me, that in this case Chuck is the real singer and Jimmy just a parody.
I feel the same way. I hated Chuck for the longest, but the more I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that he's one of the most complex characters I've ever seen. Chuck was 100% right, but he was just a complete and utter assholes as to how he was right. I still hate him, but not as much as before.
Another great point is in season 5 when Jimmy says he can shoot lightning bolts from his fingertips. In a way strange, I think Jimmy was a placebos trigger for Chuck's hypochondria. Whenever they get along, his fake condition goes away. Whenever Jimmy starts backsliding, his condition returns. Chuck reminds me of Gus where we're supposed to hate the guy but its simply a matter of perspective. As an oldest sibling myself, Chuck makes way more sense as a character.
Chuck was right because of his own actions, Oedipus Complex. If he gave Jimmy a chance, if he didn't screw him over countless times Jimmy could've been a greatly respected lawyer in HHM
Could he though? We can't put all of Jimmy's actions at the feet of Chuck. It seems like their father getting scammed was a huge turning point for Jimmy that had nothing to do with Chuck. I'm not saying Chuck had no influence on Jimmy, but I wouldn't say he pushed him to crime initially.
@@BrickKildaguy This seriously. Jimmy was 30+ years old doing small crime just fine w/o Chuck around "making him" and hadn't seen the family for 5 or so years before Chuck tried to fix his sorry excuse of a life of scams.
@@BrickKildaguy This biggest part is at the end when was pretending to get better Chuck said I would actually respect you if u just admitted you will never change and embraced it. Jimmy went on like that for years because that was legitimately the only time Chuck offered "respect."
Too many people overlook how Jimmy's small cons in Season 1 could have played a huge hand in Chuck denying his brother from working at HHM the 2nd time. We see actual proof that Chuck loved working with his brother as he helped build Sandpiper with him. Chuck was also shown to before season 1 started timeline wise reached a point where he wanted to be supportive of his brother's law practice as Saul Gone showed where he was clearly touched by how Jimmy was taking care of him even though he didn't need to. If that was all that happened Chuck might have actually not blocked Jimmy from being partner the 2nd time. Even then the 1st time it could have been more than Chuck as well. We hear "partners" at HMM, meaning more than just Chuck might have not wanted to hire Jimmy the 1st time. Sadly the events of Season 1 happened. Chuck saw the hospital bill that Jimmy got for paying for those 2 brothers after they all almost ended up sharing a grave in the desert. And everyone brushes past the billboard sign but the fact is Jimmy and another guy could have died from that stunt. Chuck had no idea how bad the 1st one even was, because he just thought it was from Jimmy regressing and doing slip n falls but Jimmy almost got bloody killed and almost got others killed because of it. And man I bet if he knew about full story that he would have confronted his brother sooner because people forget that there was concern on Chuck for why he didn't want Jimmy to be too high up as well. He was shown a few times that he was worried Jimmy would get himself or someone else hurt. Now it was his mom that put him into this role of worrying about Jimmy and wanting to protect him. He did feel he was sort of put into this role of protector of his dumbass brother by his mom. But it was still something he agreed to do. He didn't need to help his loser 30+ year old brother out of his Chicago Sunroof issue, but he still did even if his mom asked him to come down there. But the funny thing is, if he didn't care about Jimmy at all he could have just helped him and then said good luck bro after. Instead he took a active hand in trying to fix Jimmy's life. So yeah Chuck was the reason why Jimmy wasn't made partner the 2nd time, that much is clear. But if Chuck was right and Jimmy was regressing to his old ways (and he was, he observing Jimmy in Season 2 and calls into question how he got those sigs for the the lawsuit showed that). Then what if he regressed to fall. Jimmy robbed from his own family, their father as a tween & teen. He knows family isn't safe from Jimmy's greed.
The reason why chuck denied him from being a partner was because he graduated from a correspondence school, those were his own words. "I worked years to get in this position" - chuck's own words. He was entitled and couldn't see his brother being the same as him. Of course Jimmy small cons could have played a hand in this.. But Jimmy tried his best to change himself and chuck didn't believe that he could change.
He didn't stop Jimmy from joining HHM because he did crimes (though that would be a valid reason). He stopped Jimmy because, as he put it himself "you're funny and you can make people laugh. I committed my life to this!" Chuck doesn't give a single shit about what is right or wrong, what hurts others or doesn't. All Chuck cares about is people giving him the attention his parents only gave to Jimmy, and if Jimmy becomes a lawyer, the one advantage Chuck has over him in seeking attention disappears.
@@RahulSharma-oq2ut There were a lot of complex reasons for what Chuck did. Relationships with brothers are like that. But at least part of it was Chuck was afraid of all the people Jimmy could hurt if he had the powers of a lawyer. He called it a "chimp with a machine gun." And Chuck was not wrong about that. Jimmy hurt a LOT of people before Chuck said that, and Jimmy went on to be an accomplice to a bunch of murders. Whether or not Chuck's worry about Jimmy hurting people were a self fulfilling prophecy, Chuck was still correct that Jimmy had a huge potential to hurt people as a lawyer.
@@William-the-Guy everyone has potential to hurt people - not giving Jimmy the trust or the benefit of the doubt is a dick move. If Chuck was alive, there’s no way his ego would’ve been able to take admitting that if he hadn’t lost faith in Jimmy, Jimmy never would’ve become Saul
@@themainpoetrychannel1640 Jimmy had a long history of hurting people. That's the difference between him and just "everyone having the potential to hurt people." Chuck spent more than 30 years watching all the people Jimmy hurt. Yes if Chuck was a perfect saint, he'd have had more faith that "this time it's different," but its not at all surprising that given their history, he found it hard to do that.
It is such an annoying trope that Chuck somehow sabotaged Jimmy’s career. The only thing he stood in the way of was him working at HHM. Considering Chuck is one of the founders I don’t see how that is sabotage. It is literally Chuck’s decision who gets to work at HHM. Furthermore it is not like HHM is the only law firm or that Jimmy would’ve actually being able to function at HHM. Being denied a job at one law firm is hardly sabotage. And considering Jimmy’s style of law it isn’t even an unreasonable denial. And Chuck was supportive of Jimmy doing PD work and elder law. He coached him and motivated him to keep doing PD work, he did some of Jimmy’s wills. Jimmy supposedly just wanted to make Chuck proud. But then somehow doing PD and elder law wasn’t enough? PD and elder law are fine careers. But it wasn’t good enough for Jimmy because it didn’t make him rich. And that is what he cares far more about than ‘making Chuck proud’. Public defender makes about 50K a year in New Mexico, Walt made about the same and he raised an entire family on that salary. Jimmy could’ve easily lived a decent life like that. But that wasn’t what it was about, Jimmy did it all for Kim, Kim was going to be a lawyer and he wanted to impress her and stay with her. That is why he told her about him studying to become a lawyer and not Chuck.
Just saw ur video and man I m really impressed by your multi dimensional perspective of thinking and good way of explaination.. earned a like and sub 👍👍
i feel like Chuck would actually be proud of Jimmy becoming a lawyer if he saw a hard work behind it . jimmy passing the bar in a Online course was pretty sus , specially at that period of time , btw Rhea Seehorn gonna star in Vince next project , which is awesome dude
Chuck actually liked working with Jimmy as Sandpiper showed, and a flashback in Saul Gone shows he was actually starting to come around to the idea of Jimmy being a lawyer as well and was actually wanting to talk about his cases. So if he saw hard work he would have been fine. But Jimmy in Season 1 had two scams total come to Chuck's attention that made him think Jimmy was regressing. Which in turn made him regress as well funny enough.
He didn't look down on Jimmy because he went to an online school. He looked down on Jimmy because, as he put it himself "you're funny and you can make people laugh. I committed my life to this!" All Chuck cares about is people giving him the attention his parents only gave to Jimmy, and if Jimmy becomes a lawyer, the one advantage Chuck has over him in seeking attention disappears.
@@cholanrajendran1207 It's both. Chuck did feel that way, but it also bugged him that Jimmy got his law degree in what was probably the easiest possible way, a random accredited facility on an island that was not technically part of any state who knows what sort of loopholes and regulations they took advantage of. Jimmy never spent a single day sitting in a classroom, but technical he got the paperwork saying he was a lawyer. Chuck made a few derisive comments that indicated that did bother him.
@@cholanrajendran1207 prestige from universities is a very real thing. Jimmy really expected to get his name added to the firm his brother started, despite going to the least prestigious university imaginable. To someone as obsessed with his previous firm as Chuck it's not that surprising this would feel offensive. Right or wrong, it fits his character.
I think it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've seen plenty of guys, particularly in interviews here in youtube, who turned criminal just to spite those who wronged them, which in their case were corrupt cops on a power trip. They all displayed the mentality of "If you want a criminal, I'll give you one". As others have pointed out, it could've been avoided had he been properly guided and supported.
It's so weird seeing the lengths y'all will go through to, in Chuck's words, protect your "precious Jimmy" just because he's funny and likeable. It was made clear to us in the show that Jimmy's crookedness was innate. He didn't turn that way to spite Chuck lmao
@@yearofthedawgs8581 Just because it was innate, doesn't mean it couldn't have been channeled positively. Chuck was the main thing that solidified Jimmy's decision. We're lamenting the fact that he could have been something much better in a moral and legal sense. In the same vein, had there been another parental figure in Jesse's life besides Walt, notably Mike, when he was making the big decision to ally with Walt, there may not have been so much tragedy in his life.
@@yearofthedawgs8581 thx for saying this. Everytime I see people protect Jimmy and shift the blame on literally everyone else, it reminds me of Chucks words.
Jimmy admitted during his trial where if he got out after 7 years, he would get bored like he did when being Gene and go back to coning people. That proves Jimmy will never truly change, he's self aware and self accepting. He knows prison is the best outcome. So Chuck was right
And not only that, Chuck is the real tragedy here. He had everything in life, a successful passion, financial stability, an amazing wife, a widely respected reputation, and it all slipped away from him the moment he decided to do the right thing and help his loser criminal brother out of a criminal life. Chuck literally never hurts a fly in the entire series, even when he breaks the law by stealing a newspaper he makes sure to reimburse the neighbor. Chucks grand moral transgression is:…… drumroll….. not wanting to hire his criminal brother in his own lawfirm. It has been many years and still nobody has been able to give a convincing argument for that being wrong. And yet it is played up to be this insane deep moral betrayal, it basically causes Jimmy to spiral into uncontrollable destructive rage. It still baffles me how so few people don’t recognize that for the absolute unhinged, toxic, crazy behavior that it is. Doesn’t that clearly show how unstable, petty and vengeful Jimmy is? The guy who saved your ass from prison, who gave you a stable normal life, had some reservations about your law degree and your morals as a ex-criminal lawyer… wow what an unbearable unreasonable position, that is somehow pure evil and now you must take revenge by destroying him. I think many people are so used to predigested content that they can’t comprehend that just because Jimmy is the lead character and portrayed as the good guy that you can still think about it for yourself. A painting only shows one point of view, but that doesn’t mean you can’t think about what is outside the painting, what things might look like from a different point of view, and in some cases that is the entire point of the painting. The goal of BCS is to show how a real life human could turn into BB Saul, how a human made of flesh and blood could turn into such an evil cartoon character. We are seeing his point of view, but it is still the point of view of an evil person, of a bad guy. It is just unique that they portray it in a way where you join in their narcissistic delusions and see the world through their eyes, like how in BB we are made to see how cooking meth and risking your entire family seems like a reasonable choice. Skyler and Waltjr are portrayed as boring and suffocating and that is why we don’t feel sympathy for them and are all on team Walt as he strangles a young dude with a bike lock. Even in ep. 1 Jimmy is already doing crazy illegal stuff but it is portrayed in such a way that we never wonder about that. Faking an accident to solicit a client? As a full fledged lawyer and not some desperate low life criminal? That is insane… That is about the most innocent scam he pulls in the entire series and yet if we were to step back and view that action from a different perspective, like real life, it is extremely immoral behavior. And again it is done out of spite, they didn’t want to hire him so now he has to use his destructive powers to take revenge. From Ep. 1 what we actually see is a deeply dysfunctional immoral person that is so petty that even the tiniest of slights is enough to triggered destructive rage.
I appreciate this video for making this case and mostly I agree. I take issue with the line "the world of Better Call Saul is one of determinism, not free will", which is a very contestable interpretation. Especially as we get more into Kim's story, and how she has the same desires as Jimmy to pull cons, but also has both the desire and the ability to play it straight. Looking through the series, she is able to exercise free will, both in destructive ways (her swerving back to Albuquerue on D-Day) and save ways (breaking up with Jimmy). So, even if we believe that Jim (and Chuck's) life paths were deterministic, a third free-agent character bringing in an element of - what's the right word, chaos? randomness? some other term? - whatever this element is, so that the world is not deterministic. I know this arguement of determinism/free will isn't truly proven in the show, but the argument for some amount of free will is much stronger, I believe.
This is a good example of nature and nurture along with viewing things purely from a deterministic line of thinking. Many of the things we've done or will do can be the result of previous interactions in our life. Moreso in our formulative years and the highs or lows of those experiences. I think however when we look through the lens of determinism giving up on any possibility of real change, we help fulfill that view. You may neglect to see small changes that can lead to a different path in life. In my mind it's that most of our life is governed by determinism however there is still chaotic chance involved which isn't deterministic. Much like with quantum indeterminacy and electrons properties not having fixed properties until observed. Chuck is right within the framework he sit up around himself to judge Saul. He is not right fully unless Saul lives within that framework. At the end I think it's shown Saul is able to go outside of it. This show reminds me of Three Identical Strangers with the relationship of Chuck and Saul. It's a documentary about three identical brothers for those interested. I won't go into the details but it's worth a watch if you liked the dynamic of Chuck and Saul's rocky relationship throughout the show.
Can't agree 100%. It's kind of like how they say it about Bootstrap Paradox. You can't prevent it from happening, so all your efforts end up helping for that particular event to happen. Here Chuck never believed in Jimmy (while asking everyone to believe he would get better lol), so he never even gave him a chance. He kind of shattered all the doors left for Jimmy. Imagine having the only family member you have to not trust in you. Things could've gone different if Chuck treated him different. Jimmy shares his flaws too. He had few chances to righten his wrongs, sadly he refused. But then again, things could've gone different if Chuck treated him different. That's why I respect BB and BCS writers so very much. So many cases, you can go any side, you're never 100% right or wrong. It's all about your point of view. Kudos.
I agree, and the "100%" in the title is to make a clickable headline. I don't actually think Chuck is "right" in the moral sense, just correct about his assessment of Jimmy. I fully acknowledge that Chuck played a role in pushing Jimmy to the "dark side" but that doesn't make his assessment incorrect. I don't think it's fair to say, "well, if Chuck did this or that it would be different" because Chuck is who he is in the show, and the reasons he treats Jimmy the way he does is outside of Chuck's control - just as the effect that Chuck's treatment has on Jimmy is outside of Jimmy's control
The funny thing is that chuck not supporting and stopping jimmy in any way he could to try and stop him from becoming "slippin' jimmy with a law degree" did the complete opposite. Due to chuck doing all that to jimmy slowly made him into "slippin' jimmy with a law degree" (Saul Goodman). If it weren't for chuck, jimmy probably would have still somewhat became Saul but not to the extent that we see in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul S4 - S6 (episodes 1-9)
About Jimmy not changing in the end, I'd say that you would be right, except that bus scene tells us that Jimmy has in fact really changed. It's very clear that the criminals adore Saul, yet even after all of that Jimmy still looks conflicted about it, and his guilt isn't really a show, it never was. This is something that even Chuck knows as he says back in the ending of S3 "I don't doubt that you're feelings are real" and this has all happened after moments like Jimmy giving back the Kettlemen's money, confessing to Chuck about the 1216 1261 thing and just one episode after the whole Irene thing . I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect someone to confess to something without paying importance to their health or relationships. Kim has seen Jimmy use his true feelings to manipulate people before, the bar hearing in Winner. Cheryl in Fun and Games, the way I see it this was about him wanting to make Kim know that he was infact talking being serious this time. I mean they even added a whole story telling thread in the whole time travel thing, and they even added a scene with Chuck that Peter Gould has confirmed is his the moment he'd go back and change. That scene being there itself is evidence that his regret is real. Then you take the final scene for example. Jimmy has Kim's respect and even some of her love, yet in the last shot he still looks kinda sad, and it's not because he's in prison for the rest of his life since he seemed to be at peace with it both at the confession scene itself and the scene where they smoke together, plus all the inmates and guards love him. It's because at that point since he no longer has this Saul Goodman coping mechanism where he distract himself from his guilt and trauma by making himself busy. So now all he has for the rest of his life is those thoughts, those regrets that he knows he can never go back and change, but they atleast helped him clear his conscience and helped him make peace with who he was
Great analysis. One important detail, I think is that he does not mind being in prison at all. Being Gene was worse than being in prison. Prison is a step up. He literally has the same job working in a kitchen, only in here he also has the respect of the other inmates. He didn't really lose much by going to prison, he was miserable on the outside.
@@William-the-Guy I think another point is that Jimmy when he was Gene was consistently paranoid, which is something I'm sure he has a break from in prison
@@rohanpillaij6467 Great point. Most of us would not want to go to prison. But Jimmy seemed to kind of enjoy it. Compared to his other options at the time, going to prison to get back Kim's love was not really sacrificing anything.
@@willtheprodigy3819Firstly, I find it funny that there are several people named "Will" in the thread. Secondly, the writers don't want to change anything. OP was saying that the final scene with Chuck and Jimmy is the moment that Jimmy would go back in time to change.
I always liked Chuck, but he did make me upset for his hatred of his brother. But I felt terrible when he died I thought about it for weeks, still listen to winner takes in all by abba.
Ever that notice that song refers to the rivalry between the brothers? Only one of them could win, on some level they both knew that. They were both so competitive that in the end one was destined to the destroy the other. The only question was who'd be the winner and who'd be the loser.
I feel if Chuck let Jimmy work at HHM when he still had his admiration, he would have been able to guide Jimmy to be a good lawyer. Instead he was so disgusted that he was genuenly trying to change that he went through so much to beat him down
I still disagree. My best read on why Jimmy seeks out criminal and fraudulent scams is that he enjoys it. It's not the money that Jimmy is after, it's an outlet for his ego, for him to actualise his talent that very few other people recognise. If Chuck recognised and respected Jimmy's talents, I don't think Jimmy would have such a burning need to scam people. (If only Jimmy went to therapy, 12 seasons of TV would be ruined lol.) Chuck gives Jimmy no reason to restrain himself. Instead of giving Jimmy a reputation to live up to, as an ethical Lawyer who puts people first, Chuck does the opposite. He burns into Jimmy the identity of a criminal scammer, a "chimp with a machine gun".
If Jimmy is a victim of how Chuck treats him, then you have to extend the same logic to Chuck. Why is it that Jimmy can't escape his trauma but Chuck is expected to overcome it? Chuck's treatment of Jimmy played a role in turning Jimmy into Saul, but there are reasons that make Chuck belittle Jimmy in that way - jealousy, their past and parents, etc. If that's a part of making Jimmy the way he is, then there were things that made Chuck the way he is. That's why I mention determinism in the end. When you trail that line of thinking, it only leads you to the idea that change isn't possible. People are how they are
@@BrickKildaguy Your analysis is correct. It just seems weird to credit Chuck with a "correct" judge of Jimmy's poor character, when he had such a hand in shaping it. It's like a man pointing at a burning building, and saying "yup, I told ya that would happen", after leaving an open drum of petrol on the floor.
@@caad5258 I wouldn't credit Jimmy's criminal behavior to Chuck though. I think the experience with their dad getting scammed was the impetus for that. Chuck's rejection pushed him deeper into it, but I'm not sure Chuck even had the most influence on that. It was a form of self perpetuation, but Chuck was still right.
That's all Chuck wanted to be was ALWAYS RIGHT .. Chuck couldn't be Human and tapped into his heart to be a Brother to Jimmy and give him respect, proud love and admiration for Jimmy's undetermined drive to become a lawyer. Chuck created Jimmy's anger to become Saul.
Dude I know what it's like to have an older brother not believe in you. You shouldn't downplay the fact that saul invested a lot into the relationship, saul never believed that he could amount to his older brother yet he tried and chuck just made it very clear to him that he doesn't care about Jimmy, he doesn't believe that he'll ever change and be a good lawyer.
This makes no sense. He saved him from prison.... Jimmy had a sex offense against children. You know what happens to guys like that in prison? Chuck literally got him off a felony and got him a decent job. Why would jimmy think he's on chucks level? Makes no sense
Jimmy wanted to be better but he couldn't stop himself from scamming and hurting people that's why even his own brother is tired of this. I mean Jimmy is 30 and still gets of on scamming and tricking people. Vince Gilligan even said that Chuck was a good older brother to Jimmy during their childhood but this faded away over the years
I respect your opinion but I think you're wrong to an extent. Yes, Slippin Jimmy + Law degree is always gonna equal Saul Goodman. But in the moment right before Chuck said that, slippin Jimmy was no more. He was talking to James Morgan McGill, somebody who turned his life around and was headed in a great direction. Hell, Jimmy wanted nothing more than to be even half of what Chuck was and he wanted to follow in his big brother's footsteps but in that moment where the most important person to his life, his only family left reduced him to nothing more than Slippin Jimmy, his dreams of being anything more than Slippin Jimmy died. Chuck CREATED Saul Goodman because he set Jimmy on a path to reverting back into his old ways
Jimmy did it for himself. He was holding onto all this pain for years. He was gonna turn himself in if kim admitted her part in the game. Jimmy chose to take responsibility for himself. He chose that because of what Kim did, but it wasn’t for her, it was so he can finally put everything from chuck’s death and everything following that in the past.
Chuck was wrong. Like many others say he created a self-fulfilling prophecy for Jimmy's actions, but even that prophecy ("people don't change!") fell flat once Jimmy sent himself to jail for Kim's respect. Whatever you wanna call him he wasn't 100% right.
I wouldn't say that Jimmy changed in the end if you accept that he confessed to gain the respect of Kim. I think Better Call Saul is more about returning to your true self - with their being 3 distinct personalities within Jimmy throughout the show - than it is about the person changing. As I say in my other video on the topic, Gene wanted to stay hidden, Saul wanted to get away with it, but Jimmy wanted to be loved (I should have said, respected). Jimmy didn't change, but Jimmy isn't the cut-throat criminal that Saul is. Jimmy returned to himeslf. I've said this in response to a few comments, but image a time traveler goes back in time to prevent something. His actions in the past end up causing what he was trying to prevent. Does that make him wrong about his prediction of events? No, he was just blind to his own role in causing the outcome.
You’re leaving out that the amount of money Jimmy stole was left ambiguous, as Chuck mentions his dad taking money from the till and giving customers free food quite often.
I argue that Heisenberg's rise to power was a good thing because Gus was an ultimate evil that would have killed a lot more people than he ever would have. Let's say if Saul left Walter alone. The Twins would have killed Walter, then Gale would have been Gus' cook at 96% purity. Gus would have finished that deal with Lydia and amassed eve more power. Gus then would use all that money to form an army and take territory from the cartel which would have killed 1,000s. By killing Gus, Heisenberg saved a lot more lives.
I'd give Heisenberg credit for that if it wasn't for the fact that he clearly didn't go into the criminal underworld with the intention of doing that lmao
I disagree with you entirely , The reason why Saul turned out the way he did was because chuck never believed in him and his parents overlooked saul's wrongdoings , Saul tried to change himself for chuck, but when he realised that chuck doesn't care and doesn't acknowledge him he realised that there is no point in following chuck's path. It was a self fulfilling prophecy that chuck caused.. Chuck was extremely entitled and had a huge ego related to being a lawyer, he tried to sue HHM when haward offered him to retire. But ofc saul had the most hand in his destruction, he had choices he could make and he chose the worst choices possible, he chose to not see a therapist, he chose to work for lalo, he chose not to work for HHM. He felt looked down by his brother, he had invested so much into making chuck believing him but it didn't amount to anything.
Chuck's treatment of Jimmy played a role in how Jimmy turned out, but you can't ignore the things that happened to Chuck that influenced the way Chuck turned out. That's what I meant with the "determinism" bit in the end. Everyone in the show is the way that they are for external and internal reasons, and their actions will always cause the same outcomes. A time traveler that goes back in time and ends up causing something that they were trying to prevent - is that time traveler wrong about their prediction? No, they were just blind to their own hand in it.
Did Chuck predict the future or did he cause it? The Jimmy who caused all the death and destruction was the Jimmy still hurt by Chuck's disapproval. Especially considering how Jimmy at s1 was the Jimmy closests to Chuck's approval and was also the Jimmy doing the least scams. 4:19 Chuck claims Jimmy took money from the cash drawer and that's why the shop closed. Jimmy claims their Father was too nice, got scammed by many people, so he took a bit off the top. This was made by the writers to be ambiguous.
Chuck acknowledged it too, but his disdain for Jimmy overruled that. If Jimmy even took one dollar out of the till, then in Chuck’s eyes, that entire 14K deficit was Jimmy’s.
Why didn't Chuck take an interest in Saul's career? Why didn't he take him under his wing and mentor him, teaching him how to be a respectable lawyer and train "Slippin' Jimmy" out of him?
Well he did stick his neck out for Jimmy to become a lawyer. And just for Jimmy’s freedom. He bailed him out of jail remember. I think he didn’t take an interest because he knows Jimmy and we see both in flashbacks, current time and in Breaking Bad that Jimmy is not cut out to be a lawyer. Hes bad for everyone. He sabotaged a nice old lady’s friendships just because he wanted to have a nice office to work at with Kim.
Jimmy very clearly felt guilt over what he done at end and when he said that it was a crime after talking about chuck killing himself very clearly illustrates this
3:29 he’ll be there for him when he finds his path. now having seen the end of better call saul we get a shot of that exist sign as jimmy confesses to everything.. implying that he was there. GODDAMN BRO
I think you missed the mark by a mile but that’s just me. Jimmy gave everything to Chuck and he still hated him. I laughed when he burned. And jimmy didn’t just do it to earn the respect of Kim. He did it because he wanted to have respect for himself. Something he’d always tried to get from others.
That's true about self respect but I think that's a secondary outcome of his actions rather than his motivation. I think his main motivation for taking responsibility was Kim. And Chuck hating him doesn't make him incorrect about his character assessment of Jimmy. I don't think it's fair to put all of Jimmy's criminal activity at Chuck's feet.
@@BrickKildaguy Chuck was right about Jimmy's criminal activities, but wrong about who he was in the way he felt. One aspect of Jimmy that I'll admit Chuck was a 100% about Jimmy was this belief he had that the ends justified the means
rewatch that scene in which Chuck's wife has dinner with them. At the very end, Jimmy can't help but smile. He's glad Chuck's wife left him, he even subtly manipulated the evening to drive it towards it's bad outcome. Even in this flashback from before the show started, Jimmy has been subtly sabotaging Chuck for a long time. Jimmy has this narrative in his head about how he's the victim and Chuck is so big and bad. The brilliance of the show is we see the story from Jimmy's perspective so AT FIRST we think Chuck is the bad guy. But over time we realize Jimmy is deluding himself and he has done at least as many horrible things to Chuck as Chuck did to him. If you laughed when chuck burned, you didn't really pick up on the subtly of the later episodes. I find a lot of the show is hard for people to understand, unless they grew up with only one sibling. Something about that intense rivalry with some one you know so incredibly well... the show really captured that. People who get that usually know to look beyond the surface level of the Chuck/Jimmy dynamic.
In my opinion you kind of made the mistake of separating what jimmy became later, from chucks actions. Like yes, Jimmy eventually became what Chuck "hated" in him, but as even Kim Wexler said in one episode "You're the one who made him that way". The also kinda small youtuber "What's Therapy?" has a great hour long video discussing Better Call Saul and it's whole "Nature vs Nurture" Argument, going in depth on how Chucks actions actually influenced Jimmy to become the way he is, and that if Chuck hat acted differently, even just by taking him into HHM, then Jimmy most likely wouldn't have become the way he is now. Apart from that, awesome Video! Rare to see videos of this quality at under 10.000 subs, so keep up the good work and you'll be at 100.000 before the end of the year!
Appreciate it! I don't think Chuck's influence on Jimmy and his prediction are mutually exclusive. If a time traveler goes back in time to prevent something, but ends up playing a hand in causing what he was trying to prevent, does that make the time traveler wrong about his prediction? I'd say, no. And I think the comparison is a good one. Chuck could see what Jimmy could become, but he didn't see the role that he played in it. That doesn't make him incorrect, though.
The show asks the question of why people are the way they are, without really firmly coming down one way or another. So yes Kim argues Chuck made Jimmy that way, and maybe he did. But the show also argues maybe Jimmy made himself this way, Mike gives his iconic speech about how our choices put us on a path, and once we are on it, we never get off. That is an alternate possible explanation for why Jimmy is the way he is. Mike says it wasn't Chuck's doing, it was Jimmy. And the show also has Walter White argue that Jimmy was simply born this way, nothing made him this way, not his choices or others. He just arrived like this. So you are correct that Kim said that, but you are incorrect that we are meant to believe she is definitely right. At minimum it is unclear if she's right. After all, she said that in the middle of a big lie about Chuck messing up those documents (which Jimmy faked.) She punched Jimmy right after she finished her speech about Chuck making Jimmy the way he was, because even she knew that at least some of the stuff she said to Chuck during that scene was not true.
All the time jimmy just wanted the respect of chuck and he even did, go to law some law school pass the bar, he needed a mentor someone he respected somone who could set him straight but chuck already accepted jimmy’s for he was at the time, that’s he never bothered to connect with whom he could become. The reason for this was mostly jealous the fact that people seem to like jimmy and bec of that certain things came to jimmy easily , if they were in a group or gathering through out the show chuck always want to downplay Jim , it’s understandable why they both like that
I feel like the fact jimmy tried to leave cliff main is not really what would've happened if he was offered a job in hhm. You could argue that this hatred he has for the corporate world grew from the fact that all these years chuck (through Howard) denied him a chance and constantly punished his every mistake. Were it not for Chuck's personal hatred for jimmy and everyone close to him I think it would've been different
Chuck did not know Jimmy AT ALL. That was abundantly made clear. During the episode where Jimmy broke into Chuck's house, Chuck literally said "I know my brother, he would try to break in at night". Only a few seconds later, we see Jimmy break in DURING THE DAY. It was literally spelled out for us in that scene, Chuck didn't know his own brother. He always assumed the worst out of him.
He was right throughout the whole show, until the ending, Jimmy proved him wrong by changing and facing his consequences. A theme of the whole show is asking the question “can people really change?”, and jimmy proves at the end, but it doesn’t Alleviate him of his actions.
I really don't think it was Jimmy changing, more Jimmy returning to himself. I think the theme is more about finding yourself than changing, with all of the different personas Jimmy has - pretty heavily in the final season. Jimmy has parts of Saul and Gene in him (I have another video on that topic), but Jimmy is his true self. And I interpret his motivation to take responsibility as being fueled by Kim's respect, not by it being "right"
@@BrickKildaguy This reply does not deny the fact that he changes. He stops running away from morality and confronts it. However you want to interpret that, he is not acting the same way he has previously. He has changed.
No, Jimmy doesn't "change" at the end. No normal human being purposely chooses 80 years in prison over 7 years for the sole purpose of looking like a better person lmao. This is bad writing and wholely outside of the bounds of normal human behavior. You guys are immature and want to see Chuck as some cartoonishly evil figure who's the main driving force for Jimmy's flaws, when the reality is that Chuck was right, despite how much of a douche he is. Jimmy's taste for scamming and his charisma were inherent flaws in his persomality...not some tragic result of the actions of his mean older brother.
5:05 I disagree a point on this. While I think that Jimmy would have eventually left HHM, I do not think he would have gone to Saul Goodman. I think that he would have managed to find a niche in elder law but the events that led him towards Sual would not have played out as they did.
Chucks hatred for Jimmy and his intelligent schemes to screw jimmy over played a massive part in jimmys character arc. I personally, do not believe Jimmy would have became Saul without his brother putting him down as much as he did. Chuck was correct, but it was a self fulfilling prophecy. Chucks actions pushed Jimmy further and further away. This causes Jimmy to "slip". Jimmy in season 1 had a way "better" moral compass in season 1 then he did in even season 2. Why did Jimmy fall so hard? His own brother betrayed him. If he had a better support system, he could have been different.
I agree that Chuck had an influence on making Jimmy the way he is, but that goes both ways. This argument assumes that Jimmy has not control over the influence that Chuck's treatment has on him, but you have to extend that to Chuck as well. The reasons that Chuck treats Jimmy the way he does are outside of Chuck's control, meaning he would always treat him that way. If we're taking agency away from one character (Jimmy), then we have to remove agency from all of them, which means that Chuck would always treat Jimmy that way. As someone else has suggested in the comments, it's as if Chuck is a time traveler trying to prevent the future, only to cause what he's trying to prevent. Does that make Chuck's assessment of the future wrong, just because he helped cause it? I'd say, no. He was still correct about what would happen, even if he unwittingly played a role in causing it.
@@BrickKildaguy Obviously with what we know chuck is nearly correct. Jimmy does have control over his own actions but his motivation heavily changes because of Chucks actions. There are multiple occasions in the show where Chuck diminishes Jimmy instead of lifting him. Instead of showing him how to become better, he constantly looks down on him. Chuck doesn't need to be his guardian angel but he just needed to be there for him. To be supportive without putting down. If Chuck wasn't the way he was Jimmy wouldn't have become Saul. He would be someone else if that was for better or for worse.
Chuck was ok as long as jimmy was below him, But if not for chuck there might not have been a sual goodman , and there would be a free bed in the adx montrose And im pretty the sure the bread would not have reached the same standard . As the gene/jimmy saul used to be in charge of a cinebon , that takes talent and the prisoners would need other inmate for legal advice
Sorry but no Chuck was right on what Jimmy would become, but totally was wrong in going about it and it created the thing he feared the most. Jimmys confession by the end proves how Wrong chuck was, people can change. Either for good or bad every person is capable of change like chemistry. Chuck couldn’t accept that and it killed him. Chuck had no kids, no one to pass his legacy onto, he had no other friends, and he gave up on his own marriage. Yea he says it was a mutual split, but it shows that Chuck took the easy way out so he can focus on his work and it cost him his marriage.
@@BrickKildaguy of course Jimmy changed, and he didn’t do it for Kim. Yea he got her respect, but he freed his soul by confessing what he had done. Chuck couldn’t do that cause he felt he never could be wrong. Chuck couldn’t change, and that’s where he developed his mental illness. Yea you could say it was because of stress, Jimmy, the divorce etc, but they were brought on by chucks inability to Change and just embrace life instead of the law which he revered more than his own brother.
Honestly, I both disagree and agree with you. I feel like Chuck is the embodiment of "Just because you are right, doesn't mean you are actually right." Just because Chuck was dead on the money about how much of a loose cannon Jimmy was, doesn't mean that what he did to Jimmy was right. Kind of weird how you ignored the fact that Chucks last words to Jimmy were "You never mattered to me all that much." Now, obviously this is a blatent lie, but Chuck still does it to hurt Jimmy. It's the same with Walt telling Jesse that he watched Jane die. Obviously he still loves Jesse as a son, but he's just saying that to hurt him cause he hates him at the time. Chuck did everything to stop Jimmy, not cause it was the right thing to do, but because he had so much anger and resentment that he couldn't bare letting his brother do anything to please Chuck. There was always something wrong. Which, surprisingly enough, is a common theme in toxic relationships. Also I really have a problem with the idea that Jimmy didn't change. It sort of ignores Waterworks, Jimmy lying about his regret, etc. I think that unlike Walt, Jimmy really did change.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta! As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him! You-
You can't force something into fruition and then claim you were right all along. Chuck forced Jimmy to turn into Saul. So no, I still consider him wrong. If Jimmy was just left alone after becoming a lawyer, then he would've turned out alright. But Chuck's obsession birthed the worst possible outcome, for both of them. I also heavily disagree with you saying that Chuck knew Jimmy better than anyone. Chuck did not know Jimmy AT ALL. That was abundantly made clear for us. During the episode where Jimmy broke into Chuck's house, Chuck literally said "I know my brother, he would try to break in at night". Only a few seconds later, we see Jimmy break in DURING THE DAY. It was spelled out for us in that scene, Chuck didn't know his own brother. He always assumed the worst out of him.
I don't think that scene shows that he doesn't know Jimmy, I think it shows that he underestimates how much he's hurting Jimmy with his actions. A cold, rationally thinking Jimmy would hatch a scheme to break into Chuck's home and steal the tape. We've seen him do such things a thousand times in BCS and BB, but he wasn't rational. He was operating under emotion - which was Chuck's blind spot. It doesn't show that he doesn't know Jimmy at all, it shows that Chuck is oblivious to the pain that he's causing Jimmy. And just because Chuck payed a role in creating Saul Goodman doesn't make him incorrect. He's like a time traveler who came back to try to prevent something in the future, only to end up causing it. Does that make the time traveler incorrect about his prediction? No.
@@BrickKildaguy The time traveler analogy doesn't make sense. Because that 'future' that you talk about, would've never existed if things played out without Chuck's interference. Plus you're acting like he has this godly foresight. He doesn't. It all comes down to causality. Chuck produced that future, he didn't predicted it.
Chuck didn't really care about Slippin Jimmy being a lawyer, he despised his brother because, with all his imperfections, he had the love of the people around him. Chuck did his best to be a perfect in everyway, and, despite all his efforts (and probably because of them) he drove the people he care away from him. He was a pitiful person.
Nah Chucks a shit brother. Jimmy took care of him for well over a year and yet Chuck constantly berates and belittles him. Jimmy got a law degree and Chuck belittled him because it was a crappy law school, Jimmy worrying about Chuck at their mothers deathbed goes to buy him a sandwich and Chuck couldn't be bothered to tell him she asked for him, Jimmy tries to bring Chuck out of his slump with the Sandpiper case and Chuck gets him kicked off the case, Jimmy brings him supplies for over a year and Chuck tells Jimmy blatantly to his face that he doesn't care about him. If you treat someone like this eventually something inside them will break. Chuck helped make Saul Goodman, he could've accepted Jimmy, taught him properly and help him with opportunities instead of constantly kicking him while he was down. Also I suspect Chucks "condition" is his reaction to Jimmy's success and happiness. Whenever Jimmy is doing well and happy Chuck gets sick but when Jimmy starts to fail and becomes unhappy he can stand being outside or in the office.
Chuck was right; he may have been jealous of Jimmy, but he wasn’t wrong in anything he said. There wasn’t one season (or heck probably even an episode) Jimmy wasn’t harming people or attempting to harm people. The show is brilliant in that they make Chuck so petty/sick that you buy into Jimmy and Kim’s BS
Chuck and Jimmy were both bad. I feel sorry for Howard.
@@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470 still chuck was right about jimmy. but i really bad Howard too
@@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470Chuck wasn't bad. He was tired of jimmys bullshit
Looking back Howard is the nicest person in the breaking bad universe he really just wanted the best for everyone even after Jimmy was an asshole to him for years Howard still liked him and wanted the best for him.
@@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470 Howard was addicted to drugs!
The show gives a completely different image when you realize that Jimmy is in his 40s and people want Chuck to be his caretaker and not have Jimmy take responsibility. Chuck isn't even an asshole tbh, he just did some asshole things.
Chuck said "Jimmuh... Put your law degree away Jimmuh... I'm not playing Lawyer with you right now Jimmuh"
He’s one of my favorite characters. He was the perfect opposing force to Jimmy. The order to jimmy’s chaos. After he died there was nothing holding jimmy back anymore
Chuck had good intentions but his jealousy and resentment got in the way of talking sense into Jimmy
Did everybody forget that jimmy scamed a lot of people in a bar twice or more??
I wish I focused on his pre-lawyer scams a bit more in the video. Jimmy was who he was long before the show started, and Chuck's view of him is pretty justified based once the show starts going.
Oh no!!!!!!!
@@BrickKildaguy Yes, but he had plenty of opportunity to change. You know what prevented him from doing so? Chuck. Try to read between the lines a little for your next videos.
Jimmy has agency-he made his choices. Chuck was right. He may have accelerated the evoluation of Saul Goodman but he did not create him. That's on Jimmy.
Just like the destruction of Chuck is on Chuck
@@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470I think that’s slightly different for the reason that Jimmy went out of his way to lie to Chuck’s insurance company in order to get them to drop him.
Like Howard said, Chuck was genuinely getting better until that point, and then Jimmy pushed him over the edge, for no other reason than to end his brother’s life.
That’s a bit different than Jimmy humiliating Chuck in court or Chuck ending his relationship with Howard in the most demeaning way he could. Jimmy genuinely wanted to harm Chuck, by any means necessary.
Um... he literally prevented Jimmy getting an amazingly well paid job, upholding the law, several times. And when Jimmy finally managed to get one of his own devices, Chuck bullied and forced him out of it by holding Kim as a hostage. What would you have done in that situation lmfao
I share the same opinion. The creators of the show have this uncanny ability to make the characters who actually really know the main characters better than anyone else and actually give good advices to the antihero meain characters hated by the viewer because they stay in the way of the true happyness and success of the antihero's criminal endeavors.
Chuck was not there to negatively influence Jimmy to bakrupt his father and contribute to his death.
It was not Chuck's influence or rejection that made Jimmy con people on the streets.
It was not Chuck's rejection that made Jimmy collaborate with the two skaters who ended up with broken legs.
The show clearly establishes that Jimmy was always doing these things and clearly etsablishes what would have happened in HHM if he would have gotten the job.
The same thing that happened in Davis and Maine would have happened in HHM.
Chuck;s dissaproval was just the justification Jimmy's ego needed to sink deeply into the Saul persona.
Howard was put there as a literal contrast to Jimmy. Not even for a second, no matter how low Howard was, no matter how down in life he was, no matter how rejected by everyone Howard was- not for a second in Howard's mind was a thought that he should cut a shorcut. Before he died- he said that he would work out something and stand up again.
It is very important to observe Howard's past: Howard also had a bad relationship with his father but unlike Jimmy Howard endured all of that. Howard admitted he wanted to be his own man, but his domeneering father dragged him into the law firm. Despite all of that Howard never broke bad.
Jimmy decided to burry all his unresolved problems and deal with them in an unhealthy way. Howard as a contrast to Jimmy, openly grieved, suffered, went to shrinks but he refused to break bad.
The soldier that confronted Jimmy in his office said it best: Jimmy thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that he could fool anyone and everyone is a sucker.
Howard couldnt be broken. JImmy was always broken and Chuck was right. He could never be anything else but Slipping Jimmy. For all his faults Chuck was right about that.
It is so bizarre how people just refuse to put any responsibility on Jimmy.
Like why doesn’t Jimmy have any responsibility for people thinking he never changes? He was a lifelong criminal, that were his own actions and choices but somehow he is the victim if people judge him on those choices?
Jimmy somehow had no other choice but to become Saul because Chuck “hated” him. Somehow that forced Jimmy to become Saul, he magically has zero agency or free will.
But somehow Chuck does have all the agency. He is not “forced” to hate Jimmy because Jimmy was a criminal his entire life, somehow he is expected to have free will and keep caring for Jimmy.
Chuck is pure evil because he thought Jimmy was going to be a horrible lawyer. Somehow that makes it his fault that Jimmy became Saul. Chuck’s responsibilities toward Jimmy is somehow so immense that even his opinion about his law degree somehow is all determining for Jimmy’s moral choices.
But then Jimmy has zero responsibility towards Chuck. Jimmy knew Chuck was mentally ill and was given dozens of opportunities to get Chuck help but he refused. Somehow he bears zero responsibility for that.
In fact when Jimmy uses that mental illness against Chuck to keep his law license which ultimately causes his suicide somehow Jimmy has 0 responsibility for that. Somehow that is just fine and not caused directly by Jimmy’s actions.
So scary how people think an addicting personality > morals. You can literally kill people as long as people like your personality.
Everything you said is wrong because Jimmy is hilarious and Kim Wexler is kind of hot. Chuck on the other hand is old and girlfriendless and says mean things to my favorite characters. Vince Gilligan is a genius!!!
@@yearofthedawgs8581 You hit the nail on the head.
I think he’s 20% right, as an older brother to someone, Chuck is such a shitty brother, Jimmy might have been doing bad things but he was genuinely trying to change, if Chuck really wanted to help Jimmy, he would’ve took him under his wing and showed him the good things Jimmy can get by doing good things, but all Chuck did was add fuel to fire and cemented the idea to Jimmy that doing the right thing will get you nowhere, Chuck has the shittiest approaches when it comes to relationships
And Vince Gilligan showed why. When their mother was dying Chuck as a perfect role model son was there, but Jimmy was missing and still their mom was worry about Jimmy and not showing much appreciation of Chuk being with her. I guess deep inside Chuck was annoyed that he put a lot of effort to be successful lawyer and a good son, but Jimmy got all the attention.
@Lev Stepchenko That’s not Jimmy’s fault. He’s the kid brother. I agree that Jimmy took shortcuts and tends to screw people over, and I understand that Chuck must of tried ad-nauseam to help Jimmy, but to screw Jimmy over like this? It would of been better if Chuck told Jimmy ALL of the issues he had with him and tried to help him stay away from Jimmy’s “slippin’ “ tendencies. Jimmy was really trying and if Chuck was truly honest with Jimmy and placated Jimmy’s positive progress, Saul may of not of been born. Don’t get me wrong. Chuck definitely had some good reasons and Jimmy has a very screwy side to him, but Chuck added oil to the fire instead of helping to put it out. He has a lot of fault in this and his job is to guide his kid brother, not harm him.
@@skillet9141 have you ever been in a situation where some one asked you for like a 10th or a 20th chance to earn your trust? Even after years of screwing you over, every time you trusted them, they wanted to say "No, this time I'm really trying."
Siblings understand that in a way almost no one else does. Almost no one gets to know you so intimately and gets so stuck putting up with your bullshit for decades as siblings. Even married couples never really get that level of intimacy with someone who screws them over, because married couples just breakup after a certain level of bullshit. But siblings don't really get that. They've been connected since they were children and it's almost impossible to break the bond, no matter how many times they've had their trust betrayed.
That's Chuck and Jimmy. Was Jimmy really trying this time? Maybe. But Chuck can remember probably hundreds, literally hundreds, of times Jimmy said was trying before, and in all those times Jimmy always relapses into compulsive lying. We the audience didn't see all those times, but Chuck did. And he's exhausted by it.
@@skillet9141 its from your perspective. From Chucks it might be that he was actually helping Jimmy by making obstacles in his lawyer career. Two things that were showing that Souls side will eventually win over Jimmy ( and Chuck saw it, and said it actually)
1. Jimmy doesn't like to follow the rules, and law is actually a set of rules which should be followed.
2. When Jimmy was hiding he couldn't give up doing illegal stuff.
I'm sure that Chuck with his experience could see and understand right away who Jimmy might become, he just thought that he will give up on the way becoming a lawyer. We can even see that when Jimmy graduated, Chuck wasn't so happy about it, he tried to escape from the party and when Jimmy asked him to sing, he nailed it, it's some kind of a metaphor to me, that in this case Chuck is the real singer and Jimmy just a parody.
Chuck was 0% right, lord have mercy I hope you idiots don't have little brothers. 🤣🤡
I feel the same way. I hated Chuck for the longest, but the more I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that he's one of the most complex characters I've ever seen.
Chuck was 100% right, but he was just a complete and utter assholes as to how he was right. I still hate him, but not as much as before.
Another great point is in season 5 when Jimmy says he can shoot lightning bolts from his fingertips. In a way strange, I think Jimmy was a placebos trigger for Chuck's hypochondria. Whenever they get along, his fake condition goes away. Whenever Jimmy starts backsliding, his condition returns. Chuck reminds me of Gus where we're supposed to hate the guy but its simply a matter of perspective. As an oldest sibling myself, Chuck makes way more sense as a character.
Being likable doesn't make you a good person
I think if Chuck was alive to see Jimmy bailing Lalo, he would've been heartbroken
Chuck was right because of his own actions, Oedipus Complex. If he gave Jimmy a chance, if he didn't screw him over countless times Jimmy could've been a greatly respected lawyer in HHM
Could he though? We can't put all of Jimmy's actions at the feet of Chuck. It seems like their father getting scammed was a huge turning point for Jimmy that had nothing to do with Chuck.
I'm not saying Chuck had no influence on Jimmy, but I wouldn't say he pushed him to crime initially.
@@BrickKildaguy This seriously. Jimmy was 30+ years old doing small crime just fine w/o Chuck around "making him" and hadn't seen the family for 5 or so years before Chuck tried to fix his sorry excuse of a life of scams.
@@BrickKildaguy This biggest part is at the end when was pretending to get better Chuck said I would actually respect you if u just admitted you will never change and embraced it. Jimmy went on like that for years because that was legitimately the only time Chuck offered "respect."
@@faescientivy4640 That's a really good point
@@BrickKildaguy He didn't push him to crime but he never steered him away.
Too many people overlook how Jimmy's small cons in Season 1 could have played a huge hand in Chuck denying his brother from working at HHM the 2nd time. We see actual proof that Chuck loved working with his brother as he helped build Sandpiper with him. Chuck was also shown to before season 1 started timeline wise reached a point where he wanted to be supportive of his brother's law practice as Saul Gone showed where he was clearly touched by how Jimmy was taking care of him even though he didn't need to. If that was all that happened Chuck might have actually not blocked Jimmy from being partner the 2nd time. Even then the 1st time it could have been more than Chuck as well. We hear "partners" at HMM, meaning more than just Chuck might have not wanted to hire Jimmy the 1st time.
Sadly the events of Season 1 happened. Chuck saw the hospital bill that Jimmy got for paying for those 2 brothers after they all almost ended up sharing a grave in the desert. And everyone brushes past the billboard sign but the fact is Jimmy and another guy could have died from that stunt. Chuck had no idea how bad the 1st one even was, because he just thought it was from Jimmy regressing and doing slip n falls but Jimmy almost got bloody killed and almost got others killed because of it. And man I bet if he knew about full story that he would have confronted his brother sooner because people forget that there was concern on Chuck for why he didn't want Jimmy to be too high up as well. He was shown a few times that he was worried Jimmy would get himself or someone else hurt.
Now it was his mom that put him into this role of worrying about Jimmy and wanting to protect him. He did feel he was sort of put into this role of protector of his dumbass brother by his mom. But it was still something he agreed to do. He didn't need to help his loser 30+ year old brother out of his Chicago Sunroof issue, but he still did even if his mom asked him to come down there. But the funny thing is, if he didn't care about Jimmy at all he could have just helped him and then said good luck bro after. Instead he took a active hand in trying to fix Jimmy's life.
So yeah Chuck was the reason why Jimmy wasn't made partner the 2nd time, that much is clear. But if Chuck was right and Jimmy was regressing to his old ways (and he was, he observing Jimmy in Season 2 and calls into question how he got those sigs for the the lawsuit showed that). Then what if he regressed to fall. Jimmy robbed from his own family, their father as a tween & teen. He knows family isn't safe from Jimmy's greed.
The reason why chuck denied him from being a partner was because he graduated from a correspondence school, those were his own words.
"I worked years to get in this position" - chuck's own words.
He was entitled and couldn't see his brother being the same as him.
Of course Jimmy small cons could have played a hand in this.. But Jimmy tried his best to change himself and chuck didn't believe that he could change.
He didn't stop Jimmy from joining HHM because he did crimes (though that would be a valid reason). He stopped Jimmy because, as he put it himself "you're funny and you can make people laugh. I committed my life to this!" Chuck doesn't give a single shit about what is right or wrong, what hurts others or doesn't. All Chuck cares about is people giving him the attention his parents only gave to Jimmy, and if Jimmy becomes a lawyer, the one advantage Chuck has over him in seeking attention disappears.
@@RahulSharma-oq2ut There were a lot of complex reasons for what Chuck did. Relationships with brothers are like that. But at least part of it was Chuck was afraid of all the people Jimmy could hurt if he had the powers of a lawyer. He called it a "chimp with a machine gun." And Chuck was not wrong about that. Jimmy hurt a LOT of people before Chuck said that, and Jimmy went on to be an accomplice to a bunch of murders. Whether or not Chuck's worry about Jimmy hurting people were a self fulfilling prophecy, Chuck was still correct that Jimmy had a huge potential to hurt people as a lawyer.
@@William-the-Guy everyone has potential to hurt people - not giving Jimmy the trust or the benefit of the doubt is a dick move.
If Chuck was alive, there’s no way his ego would’ve been able to take admitting that if he hadn’t lost faith in Jimmy, Jimmy never would’ve become Saul
@@themainpoetrychannel1640 Jimmy had a long history of hurting people. That's the difference between him and just "everyone having the potential to hurt people." Chuck spent more than 30 years watching all the people Jimmy hurt. Yes if Chuck was a perfect saint, he'd have had more faith that "this time it's different," but its not at all surprising that given their history, he found it hard to do that.
It is such an annoying trope that Chuck somehow sabotaged Jimmy’s career.
The only thing he stood in the way of was him working at HHM. Considering Chuck is one of the founders I don’t see how that is sabotage. It is literally Chuck’s decision who gets to work at HHM.
Furthermore it is not like HHM is the only law firm or that Jimmy would’ve actually being able to function at HHM. Being denied a job at one law firm is hardly sabotage. And considering Jimmy’s style of law it isn’t even an unreasonable denial.
And Chuck was supportive of Jimmy doing PD work and elder law. He coached him and motivated him to keep doing PD work, he did some of Jimmy’s wills.
Jimmy supposedly just wanted to make Chuck proud. But then somehow doing PD and elder law wasn’t enough? PD and elder law are fine careers. But it wasn’t good enough for Jimmy because it didn’t make him rich. And that is what he cares far more about than ‘making Chuck proud’.
Public defender makes about 50K a year in New Mexico, Walt made about the same and he raised an entire family on that salary. Jimmy could’ve easily lived a decent life like that.
But that wasn’t what it was about, Jimmy did it all for Kim, Kim was going to be a lawyer and he wanted to impress her and stay with her. That is why he told her about him studying to become a lawyer and not Chuck.
So glad videos are still being regularly made on TH-cam about BCS and it's many great characters
Just saw ur video and man I m really impressed by your multi dimensional perspective of thinking and good way of explaination.. earned a like and sub 👍👍
i feel like Chuck would actually be proud of Jimmy becoming a lawyer if he saw a hard work behind it .
jimmy passing the bar in a Online course was pretty sus , specially at that period of time
, btw Rhea Seehorn gonna star in Vince next project , which is awesome dude
Chuck actually liked working with Jimmy as Sandpiper showed, and a flashback in Saul Gone shows he was actually starting to come around to the idea of Jimmy being a lawyer as well and was actually wanting to talk about his cases. So if he saw hard work he would have been fine. But Jimmy in Season 1 had two scams total come to Chuck's attention that made him think Jimmy was regressing. Which in turn made him regress as well funny enough.
He didn't look down on Jimmy because he went to an online school. He looked down on Jimmy because, as he put it himself "you're funny and you can make people laugh. I committed my life to this!" All Chuck cares about is people giving him the attention his parents only gave to Jimmy, and if Jimmy becomes a lawyer, the one advantage Chuck has over him in seeking attention disappears.
@@cholanrajendran1207 It's both. Chuck did feel that way, but it also bugged him that Jimmy got his law degree in what was probably the easiest possible way, a random accredited facility on an island that was not technically part of any state who knows what sort of loopholes and regulations they took advantage of. Jimmy never spent a single day sitting in a classroom, but technical he got the paperwork saying he was a lawyer. Chuck made a few derisive comments that indicated that did bother him.
@@William-the-Guy Meh. I feel mentioning the online school was his own way of gaslighting himself as to why he was so mad at Jimmy.
@@cholanrajendran1207 prestige from universities is a very real thing. Jimmy really expected to get his name added to the firm his brother started, despite going to the least prestigious university imaginable. To someone as obsessed with his previous firm as Chuck it's not that surprising this would feel offensive. Right or wrong, it fits his character.
I think it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've seen plenty of guys, particularly in interviews here in youtube, who turned criminal just to spite those who wronged them, which in their case were corrupt cops on a power trip. They all displayed the mentality of "If you want a criminal, I'll give you one".
As others have pointed out, it could've been avoided had he been properly guided and supported.
It's so weird seeing the lengths y'all will go through to, in Chuck's words, protect your "precious Jimmy" just because he's funny and likeable.
It was made clear to us in the show that Jimmy's crookedness was innate. He didn't turn that way to spite Chuck lmao
@@yearofthedawgs8581 Just because it was innate, doesn't mean it couldn't have been channeled positively. Chuck was the main thing that solidified Jimmy's decision. We're lamenting the fact that he could have been something much better in a moral and legal sense.
In the same vein, had there been another parental figure in Jesse's life besides Walt, notably Mike, when he was making the big decision to ally with Walt, there may not have been so much tragedy in his life.
@@yearofthedawgs8581 thx for saying this.
Everytime I see people protect Jimmy and shift the blame on literally everyone else, it reminds me of Chucks words.
@@blacklight1104why didn’t he succeed at Davis & Mains then?
you cant kick the shit out of someone then get dissapointed for being hurt.
this is a great video and u deserve more attention
Jimmy admitted during his trial where if he got out after 7 years, he would get bored like he did when being Gene and go back to coning people. That proves Jimmy will never truly change, he's self aware and self accepting. He knows prison is the best outcome. So Chuck was right
And not only that, Chuck is the real tragedy here. He had everything in life, a successful passion, financial stability, an amazing wife, a widely respected reputation, and it all slipped away from him the moment he decided to do the right thing and help his loser criminal brother out of a criminal life.
Chuck literally never hurts a fly in the entire series, even when he breaks the law by stealing a newspaper he makes sure to reimburse the neighbor.
Chucks grand moral transgression is:…… drumroll….. not wanting to hire his criminal brother in his own lawfirm. It has been many years and still nobody has been able to give a convincing argument for that being wrong.
And yet it is played up to be this insane deep moral betrayal, it basically causes Jimmy to spiral into uncontrollable destructive rage. It still baffles me how so few people don’t recognize that for the absolute unhinged, toxic, crazy behavior that it is. Doesn’t that clearly show how unstable, petty and vengeful Jimmy is? The guy who saved your ass from prison, who gave you a stable normal life, had some reservations about your law degree and your morals as a ex-criminal lawyer… wow what an unbearable unreasonable position, that is somehow pure evil and now you must take revenge by destroying him.
I think many people are so used to predigested content that they can’t comprehend that just because Jimmy is the lead character and portrayed as the good guy that you can still think about it for yourself. A painting only shows one point of view, but that doesn’t mean you can’t think about what is outside the painting, what things might look like from a different point of view, and in some cases that is the entire point of the painting.
The goal of BCS is to show how a real life human could turn into BB Saul, how a human made of flesh and blood could turn into such an evil cartoon character. We are seeing his point of view, but it is still the point of view of an evil person, of a bad guy. It is just unique that they portray it in a way where you join in their narcissistic delusions and see the world through their eyes, like how in BB we are made to see how cooking meth and risking your entire family seems like a reasonable choice. Skyler and Waltjr are portrayed as boring and suffocating and that is why we don’t feel sympathy for them and are all on team Walt as he strangles a young dude with a bike lock.
Even in ep. 1 Jimmy is already doing crazy illegal stuff but it is portrayed in such a way that we never wonder about that. Faking an accident to solicit a client? As a full fledged lawyer and not some desperate low life criminal? That is insane… That is about the most innocent scam he pulls in the entire series and yet if we were to step back and view that action from a different perspective, like real life, it is extremely immoral behavior. And again it is done out of spite, they didn’t want to hire him so now he has to use his destructive powers to take revenge.
From Ep. 1 what we actually see is a deeply dysfunctional immoral person that is so petty that even the tiniest of slights is enough to triggered destructive rage.
I appreciate this video for making this case and mostly I agree. I take issue with the line "the world of Better Call Saul is one of determinism, not free will", which is a very contestable interpretation. Especially as we get more into Kim's story, and how she has the same desires as Jimmy to pull cons, but also has both the desire and the ability to play it straight. Looking through the series, she is able to exercise free will, both in destructive ways (her swerving back to Albuquerue on D-Day) and save ways (breaking up with Jimmy). So, even if we believe that Jim (and Chuck's) life paths were deterministic, a third free-agent character bringing in an element of - what's the right word, chaos? randomness? some other term? - whatever this element is, so that the world is not deterministic. I know this arguement of determinism/free will isn't truly proven in the show, but the argument for some amount of free will is much stronger, I believe.
This is a good example of nature and nurture along with viewing things purely from a deterministic line of thinking.
Many of the things we've done or will do can be the result of previous interactions in our life. Moreso in our formulative years and the highs or lows of those experiences. I think however when we look through the lens of determinism giving up on any possibility of real change, we help fulfill that view. You may neglect to see small changes that can lead to a different path in life. In my mind it's that most of our life is governed by determinism however there is still chaotic chance involved which isn't deterministic. Much like with quantum indeterminacy and electrons properties not having fixed properties until observed.
Chuck is right within the framework he sit up around himself to judge Saul. He is not right fully unless Saul lives within that framework. At the end I think it's shown Saul is able to go outside of it.
This show reminds me of Three Identical Strangers with the relationship of Chuck and Saul. It's a documentary about three identical brothers for those interested. I won't go into the details but it's worth a watch if you liked the dynamic of Chuck and Saul's rocky relationship throughout the show.
Can't agree 100%. It's kind of like how they say it about Bootstrap Paradox. You can't prevent it from happening, so all your efforts end up helping for that particular event to happen.
Here Chuck never believed in Jimmy (while asking everyone to believe he would get better lol), so he never even gave him a chance. He kind of shattered all the doors left for Jimmy. Imagine having the only family member you have to not trust in you. Things could've gone different if Chuck treated him different. Jimmy shares his flaws too. He had few chances to righten his wrongs, sadly he refused. But then again, things could've gone different if Chuck treated him different.
That's why I respect BB and BCS writers so very much. So many cases, you can go any side, you're never 100% right or wrong. It's all about your point of view. Kudos.
I agree, and the "100%" in the title is to make a clickable headline. I don't actually think Chuck is "right" in the moral sense, just correct about his assessment of Jimmy.
I fully acknowledge that Chuck played a role in pushing Jimmy to the "dark side" but that doesn't make his assessment incorrect. I don't think it's fair to say, "well, if Chuck did this or that it would be different" because Chuck is who he is in the show, and the reasons he treats Jimmy the way he does is outside of Chuck's control - just as the effect that Chuck's treatment has on Jimmy is outside of Jimmy's control
Drippin Jimmy😎
"You'll never touch this box" *Shoots*
.....
"Golly I was right all along."
The funny thing is that chuck not supporting and stopping jimmy in any way he could to try and stop him from becoming "slippin' jimmy with a law degree" did the complete opposite. Due to chuck doing all that to jimmy slowly made him into "slippin' jimmy with a law degree" (Saul Goodman). If it weren't for chuck, jimmy probably would have still somewhat became Saul but not to the extent that we see in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul S4 - S6 (episodes 1-9)
About Jimmy not changing in the end, I'd say that you would be right, except that bus scene tells us that Jimmy has in fact really changed. It's very clear that the criminals adore Saul, yet even after all of that Jimmy still looks conflicted about it, and his guilt isn't really a show, it never was. This is something that even Chuck knows as he says back in the ending of S3 "I don't doubt that you're feelings are real" and this has all happened after moments like Jimmy giving back the Kettlemen's money, confessing to Chuck about the 1216 1261 thing and just one episode after the whole Irene thing . I think it's extremely unrealistic to expect someone to confess to something without paying importance to their health or relationships. Kim has seen Jimmy use his true feelings to manipulate people before, the bar hearing in Winner. Cheryl in Fun and Games, the way I see it this was about him wanting to make Kim know that he was infact talking being serious this time. I mean they even added a whole story telling thread in the whole time travel thing, and they even added a scene with Chuck that Peter Gould has confirmed is his the moment he'd go back and change. That scene being there itself is evidence that his regret is real. Then you take the final scene for example. Jimmy has Kim's respect and even some of her love, yet in the last shot he still looks kinda sad, and it's not because he's in prison for the rest of his life since he seemed to be at peace with it both at the confession scene itself and the scene where they smoke together, plus all the inmates and guards love him. It's because at that point since he no longer has this Saul Goodman coping mechanism where he distract himself from his guilt and trauma by making himself busy. So now all he has for the rest of his life is those thoughts, those regrets that he knows he can never go back and change, but they atleast helped him clear his conscience and helped him make peace with who he was
Great analysis. One important detail, I think is that he does not mind being in prison at all. Being Gene was worse than being in prison. Prison is a step up. He literally has the same job working in a kitchen, only in here he also has the respect of the other inmates. He didn't really lose much by going to prison, he was miserable on the outside.
@@William-the-Guy I think another point is that Jimmy when he was Gene was consistently paranoid, which is something I'm sure he has a break from in prison
@@rohanpillaij6467 Great point. Most of us would not want to go to prison. But Jimmy seemed to kind of enjoy it. Compared to his other options at the time, going to prison to get back Kim's love was not really sacrificing anything.
What scene did he say he would "go back and change?" Why would the writers want to change the show? Tell me more.
@@willtheprodigy3819Firstly, I find it funny that there are several people named "Will" in the thread. Secondly, the writers don't want to change anything. OP was saying that the final scene with Chuck and Jimmy is the moment that Jimmy would go back in time to change.
I always liked Chuck, but he did make me upset for his hatred of his brother. But I felt terrible when he died I thought about it for weeks, still listen to winner takes in all by abba.
Ever that notice that song refers to the rivalry between the brothers? Only one of them could win, on some level they both knew that. They were both so competitive that in the end one was destined to the destroy the other. The only question was who'd be the winner and who'd be the loser.
People who like Chuck shouldn't be trusted, it means that some part of their soul relates to that piece of rotten garbage. 🤣
I feel if Chuck let Jimmy work at HHM when he still had his admiration, he would have been able to guide Jimmy to be a good lawyer. Instead he was so disgusted that he was genuenly trying to change that he went through so much to beat him down
Jimmy wanted respect, Chuck wanted love. Both men coveted what the other man had. They were jealous of each other.
I still disagree. My best read on why Jimmy seeks out criminal and fraudulent scams is that he enjoys it.
It's not the money that Jimmy is after, it's an outlet for his ego, for him to actualise his talent that very few other people recognise.
If Chuck recognised and respected Jimmy's talents, I don't think Jimmy would have such a burning need to scam people. (If only Jimmy went to therapy, 12 seasons of TV would be ruined lol.)
Chuck gives Jimmy no reason to restrain himself. Instead of giving Jimmy a reputation to live up to, as an ethical Lawyer who puts people first, Chuck does the opposite.
He burns into Jimmy the identity of a criminal scammer, a "chimp with a machine gun".
If Jimmy is a victim of how Chuck treats him, then you have to extend the same logic to Chuck. Why is it that Jimmy can't escape his trauma but Chuck is expected to overcome it?
Chuck's treatment of Jimmy played a role in turning Jimmy into Saul, but there are reasons that make Chuck belittle Jimmy in that way - jealousy, their past and parents, etc. If that's a part of making Jimmy the way he is, then there were things that made Chuck the way he is.
That's why I mention determinism in the end. When you trail that line of thinking, it only leads you to the idea that change isn't possible. People are how they are
@@BrickKildaguy Your analysis is correct. It just seems weird to credit Chuck with a "correct" judge of Jimmy's poor character, when he had such a hand in shaping it.
It's like a man pointing at a burning building, and saying "yup, I told ya that would happen", after leaving an open drum of petrol on the floor.
@@caad5258 I wouldn't credit Jimmy's criminal behavior to Chuck though. I think the experience with their dad getting scammed was the impetus for that.
Chuck's rejection pushed him deeper into it, but I'm not sure Chuck even had the most influence on that. It was a form of self perpetuation, but Chuck was still right.
That's all Chuck wanted to be was ALWAYS RIGHT ..
Chuck couldn't be Human and tapped into his heart to be a Brother to Jimmy and give him respect, proud love and admiration for Jimmy's undetermined drive to become a lawyer. Chuck created Jimmy's anger to become Saul.
Dude I know what it's like to have an older brother not believe in you.
You shouldn't downplay the fact that saul invested a lot into the relationship, saul never believed that he could amount to his older brother yet he tried and chuck just made it very clear to him that he doesn't care about Jimmy, he doesn't believe that he'll ever change and be a good lawyer.
This makes no sense. He saved him from prison.... Jimmy had a sex offense against children. You know what happens to guys like that in prison? Chuck literally got him off a felony and got him a decent job. Why would jimmy think he's on chucks level? Makes no sense
Jimmy wanted to be better but he couldn't stop himself from scamming and hurting people that's why even his own brother is tired of this.
I mean Jimmy is 30 and still gets of on scamming and tricking people.
Vince Gilligan even said that Chuck was a good older brother to Jimmy during their childhood but this faded away over the years
I respect your opinion but I think you're wrong to an extent. Yes, Slippin Jimmy + Law degree is always gonna equal Saul Goodman. But in the moment right before Chuck said that, slippin Jimmy was no more. He was talking to James Morgan McGill, somebody who turned his life around and was headed in a great direction. Hell, Jimmy wanted nothing more than to be even half of what Chuck was and he wanted to follow in his big brother's footsteps but in that moment where the most important person to his life, his only family left reduced him to nothing more than Slippin Jimmy, his dreams of being anything more than Slippin Jimmy died. Chuck CREATED Saul Goodman because he set Jimmy on a path to reverting back into his old ways
Jimmy did it for himself. He was holding onto all this pain for years. He was gonna turn himself in if kim admitted her part in the game. Jimmy chose to take responsibility for himself. He chose that because of what Kim did, but it wasn’t for her, it was so he can finally put everything from chuck’s death and everything following that in the past.
Chuck was wrong. Like many others say he created a self-fulfilling prophecy for Jimmy's actions, but even that prophecy ("people don't change!") fell flat once Jimmy sent himself to jail for Kim's respect. Whatever you wanna call him he wasn't 100% right.
I wouldn't say that Jimmy changed in the end if you accept that he confessed to gain the respect of Kim. I think Better Call Saul is more about returning to your true self - with their being 3 distinct personalities within Jimmy throughout the show - than it is about the person changing.
As I say in my other video on the topic, Gene wanted to stay hidden, Saul wanted to get away with it, but Jimmy wanted to be loved (I should have said, respected). Jimmy didn't change, but Jimmy isn't the cut-throat criminal that Saul is. Jimmy returned to himeslf.
I've said this in response to a few comments, but image a time traveler goes back in time to prevent something. His actions in the past end up causing what he was trying to prevent. Does that make him wrong about his prediction of events? No, he was just blind to his own role in causing the outcome.
You’re leaving out that the amount of money Jimmy stole was left ambiguous, as Chuck mentions his dad taking money from the till and giving customers free food quite often.
I argue that Heisenberg's rise to power was a good thing because Gus was an ultimate evil that would have killed a lot more people than he ever would have. Let's say if Saul left Walter alone. The Twins would have killed Walter, then Gale would have been Gus' cook at 96% purity. Gus would have finished that deal with Lydia and amassed eve more power. Gus then would use all that money to form an army and take territory from the cartel which would have killed 1,000s. By killing Gus, Heisenberg saved a lot more lives.
Interesting. I like that.
I like this take, too. Walt tore down empires that didn't deserve to exist.
I'd give Heisenberg credit for that if it wasn't for the fact that he clearly didn't go into the criminal underworld with the intention of doing that lmao
Walt is a hero
I disagree with you entirely ,
The reason why Saul turned out the way he did was because chuck never believed in him and his parents overlooked saul's wrongdoings , Saul tried to change himself for chuck, but when he realised that chuck doesn't care and doesn't acknowledge him he realised that there is no point in following chuck's path.
It was a self fulfilling prophecy that chuck caused..
Chuck was extremely entitled and had a huge ego related to being a lawyer, he tried to sue HHM when haward offered him to retire.
But ofc saul had the most hand in his destruction, he had choices he could make and he chose the worst choices possible, he chose to not see a therapist, he chose to work for lalo, he chose not to work for HHM.
He felt looked down by his brother, he had invested so much into making chuck believing him but it didn't amount to anything.
Chuck's treatment of Jimmy played a role in how Jimmy turned out, but you can't ignore the things that happened to Chuck that influenced the way Chuck turned out.
That's what I meant with the "determinism" bit in the end. Everyone in the show is the way that they are for external and internal reasons, and their actions will always cause the same outcomes.
A time traveler that goes back in time and ends up causing something that they were trying to prevent - is that time traveler wrong about their prediction? No, they were just blind to their own hand in it.
He absolutely was not. Chuck is the sole reason why Jimmy went down the path he did.
Did Chuck predict the future or did he cause it? The Jimmy who caused all the death and destruction was the Jimmy still hurt by Chuck's disapproval.
Especially considering how Jimmy at s1 was the Jimmy closests to Chuck's approval and was also the Jimmy doing the least scams.
4:19 Chuck claims Jimmy took money from the cash drawer and that's why the shop closed. Jimmy claims their Father was too nice, got scammed by many people, so he took a bit off the top. This was made by the writers to be ambiguous.
Chuck acknowledged it too, but his disdain for Jimmy overruled that.
If Jimmy even took one dollar out of the till, then in Chuck’s eyes, that entire 14K deficit was Jimmy’s.
Why didn't Chuck take an interest in Saul's career? Why didn't he take him under his wing and mentor him, teaching him how to be a respectable lawyer and train "Slippin' Jimmy" out of him?
He took a shit on a sun roof.
Well he did stick his neck out for Jimmy to become a lawyer. And just for Jimmy’s freedom. He bailed him out of jail remember. I think he didn’t take an interest because he knows Jimmy and we see both in flashbacks, current time and in Breaking Bad that Jimmy is not cut out to be a lawyer. Hes bad for everyone. He sabotaged a nice old lady’s friendships just because he wanted to have a nice office to work at with Kim.
Jimmy has to do that. Chuck can’t do that.
He literally did that, giving him nonstop mentoring and guidance on his public defender work.
Jimmy very clearly felt guilt over what he done at end and when he said that it was a crime after talking about chuck killing himself very clearly illustrates this
3:29
he’ll be there for him when he finds his path. now having seen the end of better call saul we get a shot of that exist sign as jimmy confesses to everything.. implying that he was there. GODDAMN BRO
I think you missed the mark by a mile but that’s just me. Jimmy gave everything to Chuck and he still hated him. I laughed when he burned. And jimmy didn’t just do it to earn the respect of Kim. He did it because he wanted to have respect for himself. Something he’d always tried to get from others.
Agree
That's true about self respect but I think that's a secondary outcome of his actions rather than his motivation. I think his main motivation for taking responsibility was Kim.
And Chuck hating him doesn't make him incorrect about his character assessment of Jimmy. I don't think it's fair to put all of Jimmy's criminal activity at Chuck's feet.
@@BrickKildaguy Chuck was right about Jimmy's criminal activities, but wrong about who he was in the way he felt. One aspect of Jimmy that I'll admit Chuck was a 100% about Jimmy was this belief he had that the ends justified the means
rewatch that scene in which Chuck's wife has dinner with them. At the very end, Jimmy can't help but smile. He's glad Chuck's wife left him, he even subtly manipulated the evening to drive it towards it's bad outcome. Even in this flashback from before the show started, Jimmy has been subtly sabotaging Chuck for a long time. Jimmy has this narrative in his head about how he's the victim and Chuck is so big and bad. The brilliance of the show is we see the story from Jimmy's perspective so AT FIRST we think Chuck is the bad guy. But over time we realize Jimmy is deluding himself and he has done at least as many horrible things to Chuck as Chuck did to him.
If you laughed when chuck burned, you didn't really pick up on the subtly of the later episodes.
I find a lot of the show is hard for people to understand, unless they grew up with only one sibling. Something about that intense rivalry with some one you know so incredibly well... the show really captured that. People who get that usually know to look beyond the surface level of the Chuck/Jimmy dynamic.
@@William-the-Guy no shit he sabotaged that evening with his wife. Jimmy helped him for years only for Chuck to treat him like a dog.
Okay fine, he was right, but I still hate him.
In my opinion you kind of made the mistake of separating what jimmy became later, from chucks actions.
Like yes, Jimmy eventually became what Chuck "hated" in him, but as even Kim Wexler said in one episode "You're the one who made him that way".
The also kinda small youtuber "What's Therapy?" has a great hour long video discussing Better Call Saul and it's whole "Nature vs Nurture" Argument, going in depth on how Chucks actions actually influenced Jimmy to become the way he is, and that if Chuck hat acted differently, even just by taking him into HHM, then Jimmy most likely wouldn't have become the way he is now.
Apart from that, awesome Video! Rare to see videos of this quality at under 10.000 subs, so keep up the good work and you'll be at 100.000 before the end of the year!
Appreciate it!
I don't think Chuck's influence on Jimmy and his prediction are mutually exclusive. If a time traveler goes back in time to prevent something, but ends up playing a hand in causing what he was trying to prevent, does that make the time traveler wrong about his prediction? I'd say, no. And I think the comparison is a good one.
Chuck could see what Jimmy could become, but he didn't see the role that he played in it. That doesn't make him incorrect, though.
@@BrickKildaguy a time machine??? If you have regrets, just say that.
;)
The show asks the question of why people are the way they are, without really firmly coming down one way or another. So yes Kim argues Chuck made Jimmy that way, and maybe he did. But the show also argues maybe Jimmy made himself this way, Mike gives his iconic speech about how our choices put us on a path, and once we are on it, we never get off. That is an alternate possible explanation for why Jimmy is the way he is. Mike says it wasn't Chuck's doing, it was Jimmy. And the show also has Walter White argue that Jimmy was simply born this way, nothing made him this way, not his choices or others. He just arrived like this.
So you are correct that Kim said that, but you are incorrect that we are meant to believe she is definitely right. At minimum it is unclear if she's right. After all, she said that in the middle of a big lie about Chuck messing up those documents (which Jimmy faked.) She punched Jimmy right after she finished her speech about Chuck making Jimmy the way he was, because even she knew that at least some of the stuff she said to Chuck during that scene was not true.
Nobody else can make you that way. You cannot blame others for your actions. You just can’t. You find a way to succeed despite them.
Some of you guys have a problem with accepting responsibility. "B-but Chuck made him that way!" is just straight up pathetic
I also felt he was right but arguably it falls back into neutrality in that if he didn't hate Jimmy maybe Jimmy would actually change.
All the time jimmy just wanted the respect of chuck and he even did, go to law some law school pass the bar, he needed a mentor someone he respected somone who could set him straight but chuck already accepted jimmy’s for he was at the time, that’s he never bothered to connect with whom he could become. The reason for this was mostly jealous the fact that people seem to like jimmy and bec of that certain things came to jimmy easily , if they were in a group or gathering through out the show chuck always want to downplay Jim , it’s understandable why they both like that
I feel like the fact jimmy tried to leave cliff main is not really what would've happened if he was offered a job in hhm. You could argue that this hatred he has for the corporate world grew from the fact that all these years chuck (through Howard) denied him a chance and constantly punished his every mistake. Were it not for Chuck's personal hatred for jimmy and everyone close to him I think it would've been different
Chuck was 100% correct because Chuck made him that way in his later years
I think he's "correct" I don't think he's "right" he knew who jimmy is, and what he'd always be. But the actions he took were certainly mishandled.
Howard said to Kim: “You know who actually knew jimmy? Chuck.”
Chuck did not know Jimmy AT ALL.
That was abundantly made clear. During the episode where Jimmy broke into Chuck's house, Chuck literally said "I know my brother, he would try to break in at night". Only a few seconds later, we see Jimmy break in DURING THE DAY. It was literally spelled out for us in that scene, Chuck didn't know his own brother. He always assumed the worst out of him.
He was right throughout the whole show, until the ending, Jimmy proved him wrong by changing and facing his consequences. A theme of the whole show is asking the question “can people really change?”, and jimmy proves at the end, but it doesn’t Alleviate him of his actions.
I really don't think it was Jimmy changing, more Jimmy returning to himself. I think the theme is more about finding yourself than changing, with all of the different personas Jimmy has - pretty heavily in the final season.
Jimmy has parts of Saul and Gene in him (I have another video on that topic), but Jimmy is his true self. And I interpret his motivation to take responsibility as being fueled by Kim's respect, not by it being "right"
@@BrickKildaguy This reply does not deny the fact that he changes. He stops running away from morality and confronts it. However you want to interpret that, he is not acting the same way he has previously. He has changed.
No, Jimmy doesn't "change" at the end. No normal human being purposely chooses 80 years in prison over 7 years for the sole purpose of looking like a better person lmao. This is bad writing and wholely outside of the bounds of normal human behavior.
You guys are immature and want to see Chuck as some cartoonishly evil figure who's the main driving force for Jimmy's flaws, when the reality is that Chuck was right, despite how much of a douche he is. Jimmy's taste for scamming and his charisma were inherent flaws in his persomality...not some tragic result of the actions of his mean older brother.
Little too late no? If he could, then why didn’t he change a little sooner?
5:05 I disagree a point on this. While I think that Jimmy would have eventually left HHM, I do not think he would have gone to Saul Goodman. I think that he would have managed to find a niche in elder law but the events that led him towards Sual would not have played out as they did.
Everyone knew he was
Dripping Jimmy lives
Chucks hatred for Jimmy and his intelligent schemes to screw jimmy over played a massive part in jimmys character arc. I personally, do not believe Jimmy would have became Saul without his brother putting him down as much as he did. Chuck was correct, but it was a self fulfilling prophecy. Chucks actions pushed Jimmy further and further away. This causes Jimmy to "slip". Jimmy in season 1 had a way "better" moral compass in season 1 then he did in even season 2. Why did Jimmy fall so hard? His own brother betrayed him. If he had a better support system, he could have been different.
I agree that Chuck had an influence on making Jimmy the way he is, but that goes both ways.
This argument assumes that Jimmy has not control over the influence that Chuck's treatment has on him, but you have to extend that to Chuck as well. The reasons that Chuck treats Jimmy the way he does are outside of Chuck's control, meaning he would always treat him that way. If we're taking agency away from one character (Jimmy), then we have to remove agency from all of them, which means that Chuck would always treat Jimmy that way.
As someone else has suggested in the comments, it's as if Chuck is a time traveler trying to prevent the future, only to cause what he's trying to prevent. Does that make Chuck's assessment of the future wrong, just because he helped cause it? I'd say, no. He was still correct about what would happen, even if he unwittingly played a role in causing it.
@@BrickKildaguy Obviously with what we know chuck is nearly correct. Jimmy does have control over his own actions but his motivation heavily changes because of Chucks actions. There are multiple occasions in the show where Chuck diminishes Jimmy instead of lifting him. Instead of showing him how to become better, he constantly looks down on him. Chuck doesn't need to be his guardian angel but he just needed to be there for him. To be supportive without putting down. If Chuck wasn't the way he was Jimmy wouldn't have become Saul. He would be someone else if that was for better or for worse.
Chuck was ok as long as jimmy was below him,
But if not for chuck there might not have been a sual goodman , and there would be a free bed in the adx montrose
And im pretty the sure the bread would not have reached the same standard . As the gene/jimmy saul used to be in charge of a cinebon , that takes talent and the prisoners would need other inmate for legal advice
Sorry but no Chuck was right on what Jimmy would become, but totally was wrong in going about it and it created the thing he feared the most.
Jimmys confession by the end proves how Wrong chuck was, people can change. Either for good or bad every person is capable of change like chemistry. Chuck couldn’t accept that and it killed him.
Chuck had no kids, no one to pass his legacy onto, he had no other friends, and he gave up on his own marriage. Yea he says it was a mutual split, but it shows that Chuck took the easy way out so he can focus on his work and it cost him his marriage.
Did Jimmy change though? The only reason he confessed is because Kim did, and he wanted her respect.
@@BrickKildaguy of course Jimmy changed, and he didn’t do it for Kim. Yea he got her respect, but he freed his soul by confessing what he had done.
Chuck couldn’t do that cause he felt he never could be wrong. Chuck couldn’t change, and that’s where he developed his mental illness. Yea you could say it was because of stress, Jimmy, the divorce etc, but they were brought on by chucks inability to Change and just embrace life instead of the law which he revered more than his own brother.
Honestly, I both disagree and agree with you. I feel like Chuck is the embodiment of "Just because you are right, doesn't mean you are actually right."
Just because Chuck was dead on the money about how much of a loose cannon Jimmy was, doesn't mean that what he did to Jimmy was right. Kind of weird how you ignored the fact that Chucks last words to Jimmy were "You never mattered to me all that much."
Now, obviously this is a blatent lie, but Chuck still does it to hurt Jimmy. It's the same with Walt telling Jesse that he watched Jane die. Obviously he still loves Jesse as a son, but he's just saying that to hurt him cause he hates him at the time.
Chuck did everything to stop Jimmy, not cause it was the right thing to do, but because he had so much anger and resentment that he couldn't bare letting his brother do anything to please Chuck. There was always something wrong. Which, surprisingly enough, is a common theme in toxic relationships.
Also I really have a problem with the idea that Jimmy didn't change. It sort of ignores Waterworks, Jimmy lying about his regret, etc. I think that unlike Walt, Jimmy really did change.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers! I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta!
As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He - he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him.
You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change!
Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And he gets to be a lawyer!?
What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him! You-
You can't force something into fruition and then claim you were right all along. Chuck forced Jimmy to turn into Saul. So no, I still consider him wrong.
If Jimmy was just left alone after becoming a lawyer, then he would've turned out alright. But Chuck's obsession birthed the worst possible outcome, for both of them.
I also heavily disagree with you saying that Chuck knew Jimmy better than anyone. Chuck did not know Jimmy AT ALL.
That was abundantly made clear for us. During the episode where Jimmy broke into Chuck's house, Chuck literally said "I know my brother, he would try to break in at night". Only a few seconds later, we see Jimmy break in DURING THE DAY. It was spelled out for us in that scene, Chuck didn't know his own brother. He always assumed the worst out of him.
I don't think that scene shows that he doesn't know Jimmy, I think it shows that he underestimates how much he's hurting Jimmy with his actions. A cold, rationally thinking Jimmy would hatch a scheme to break into Chuck's home and steal the tape. We've seen him do such things a thousand times in BCS and BB, but he wasn't rational.
He was operating under emotion - which was Chuck's blind spot. It doesn't show that he doesn't know Jimmy at all, it shows that Chuck is oblivious to the pain that he's causing Jimmy.
And just because Chuck payed a role in creating Saul Goodman doesn't make him incorrect. He's like a time traveler who came back to try to prevent something in the future, only to end up causing it. Does that make the time traveler incorrect about his prediction? No.
@@BrickKildaguy The time traveler analogy doesn't make sense. Because that 'future' that you talk about, would've never existed if things played out without Chuck's interference. Plus you're acting like he has this godly foresight. He doesn't. It all comes down to causality. Chuck produced that future, he didn't predicted it.
Cliff from D&M say otherwise
Chuck didn't really care about Slippin Jimmy being a lawyer, he despised his brother because, with all his imperfections, he had the love of the people around him. Chuck did his best to be a perfect in everyway, and, despite all his efforts (and probably because of them) he drove the people he care away from him. He was a pitiful person.
Jimmy was perfectly fine doing elder law with Kim by his side
Chuck ruined his life, there would be no breaking bad if not for Chuck
W opinion
Nah Chucks a shit brother. Jimmy took care of him for well over a year and yet Chuck constantly berates and belittles him. Jimmy got a law degree and Chuck belittled him because it was a crappy law school, Jimmy worrying about Chuck at their mothers deathbed goes to buy him a sandwich and Chuck couldn't be bothered to tell him she asked for him, Jimmy tries to bring Chuck out of his slump with the Sandpiper case and Chuck gets him kicked off the case, Jimmy brings him supplies for over a year and Chuck tells Jimmy blatantly to his face that he doesn't care about him. If you treat someone like this eventually something inside them will break. Chuck helped make Saul Goodman, he could've accepted Jimmy, taught him properly and help him with opportunities instead of constantly kicking him while he was down. Also I suspect Chucks "condition" is his reaction to Jimmy's success and happiness. Whenever Jimmy is doing well and happy Chuck gets sick but when Jimmy starts to fail and becomes unhappy he can stand being outside or in the office.