this needs to be combined with a high speed camera badly, to film the surface and the laser simultaneously and see how it casts the shape on the wall. that would be absolutely nuts
problem: high speed cameras require more light per frame (hence faster shutter speed). You'd either need a brighter light source or longer exposures, which defeats the purpose. Maybe one of those crazy "pop balloons from 100 meters" lazers, but then what kind of setup could handle that laser? The balloon would either get sliced up or the wall would get burnt up.
@@petiscarabe1583 well it's kinda silly because our vision is 2D just like an image on the screen and we get depth perception in our brain. It's just how human/animal brain works. Nothing surprising about it.
@@bayraktarx1386 but then is our vision still in 2d? I mean if our brain recreates depth perception thanks to our two different pov from our two different eyes, can we still say our vision's 2d? For instance, what about a guy with only one eye working: he obviously sees in 2d as he can't feel depth. Are we just the same? I mean we're probably agreeing, just interpreting the words differently, but it's nice to have an other opinion since I've been asking myself those funny questions lol for a long time
6:25 This has to do with the fact that different parts of the frame start and end their exposure at different times. Rolling shutters are an easy example - the top of the frame has different "frame separation time" than the bottom of the frame. In this case the laser path is crossing the area where the shutter is closed multiple times per frame, hence multiple "start" and "end" points. To make the effect far closer to human experience, you need to film the surface with the laser using very high speed camera (25000 Hz for a 25 fps movie) and then use postprocessing to "connect the dots" on the subframes using splines.
at 6:04 i think it may be because its a rolling shutter and not global, so it can cause the different starts and endings based on the sweeping across of the pixels
That's my thought on it as well. The image is sampled/stored in rows, or even pixel by pixel. From one corner to the opposite corner of the sensor matrix. It's interesting to see the gaps. It's showing that not only is the moving image representation of reality in video not continuous, neither are the still images that are taken
Yes, if the shutter is rolling across the frame slower than the laser is moving across the frame, then it will have to have multiple start and end points.
This brought back memories. I made one of these out of a tin coffee can back in the 90's for my high school physics class with a red laser pointer. I used a keyboard with a pitch shift to make crazy patterns. Good times lol.
@@Paul-ou1rx I used one from an old radio. Like a boom box. It needs to be large enough to move enough air and this is usually easier with lower frequencies, so it needs to have some bass to it. I used a large balloon and stretched it over the open end of the can. Used a hot glue gun to build a little mound of glue in the center of it and broke a compact to get a small piece of mirror then glued it to the top of the glue mound. Then either cut a hole in the other side or use a can opener to completely remove the other end so it's open, then you can set it on a speaker thats pointing up. As long as the container is over it so the sound waves are directed toward the balloon, the balloon will vibrate in relation to the sound waves hitting it. I used on old piece of metal stripping and screwed it to the outside of the coffee can and zip tied the laser pointer to it. The metal was flexible enough that I could aim it to insure it was reflecting off the mirror. I also took the laser pointer apart and attached a variable watt power adaptor to it so it would run off of that and not run watch batteries down after a few minutes of using it.
…and I made one in the 1960s with multiple mirrors and my Dad’s slide projector as a spotlight to hit them all. Pretty funkadelic! I was lucky to have a father who tolerated my experiments. Edmund Scientific had the parts and plans.
Wow, this is one of the coolest videos I've seen in a long time. Very interesting facts about sound and photography/videography. Thanks for making great content, Steve!
That is almost exactly what I made for my first laser light show in 1993. I used 2 rubber bands stretched over a speaker cone anchored to holes in the cone. Music usually looks like garbage, but by attaching paper clips, you can create a resonant frequency for the mirror, and playing with it, you get better patterns for the music you like.
Imagine creating a written language based on the patterns created by these sounds. Theoretically you could take a raw video of this and turn it into audio!! Incredible!!
That was exactly my tought too ... it remembered me something like the movie “the Arrival”. I know its not the same, but the emotional response I had was very a like.
I believe that is the case. I also wrote something similar before seeing your comment :) I hope this explanation reaches the video poster :) It would be interesting to see what he thinks of it. :) Liked for more visibility :)
Lucas Boisneau i don't think you understand what he meant. He means the shard of mirror on the balloon moved out of the lasers path and was just hitting the balloon. It has nothing to do with the speed of light just movement of the balloon.
Those patterns as audio represent a stereo pair of signals, where left is one axis and right is the other axis, when they drive a beam simultaneously they produce a deterministic pattern when visualized. That is very different from what is happening here where you have an indirect frequency response where the axes are coupled through a physically dynamic system and the signal is monotone and indirectly driving the amplitude through a physical process of resonant harmonics.
@@GGGTOP802 It's laser light reflecting off a mirror. That in itself covers a few subjects some more advanced than others and with hidden depths should you choose to delve. Light, optics & reflection and lasers. Then there's the deflection of the mirror driven by a wave, so acoustics, wave theory, resonance and perhaps a spring-mass simulation of a membrane. Then the thing that drives the sound, a speaker involving electromagnetism, and the tone generator to generate the wave electricity and electronics (probably analog). Of course if you're happy with the high level description then the most interesting part is the complex resonant pattern of the reflected acoustic wave on the membrane that turns a 1D sound wave into a complex 2D / 3D deformation. It's a deep well of physical phenomenon depending on what parts you want to pick apart and how deep you want to go, e.g. the laser alone could lead you to learn about Quantum Mechanics.
@@dorbie I think Dominik is correct in his identification of the phenomenon. I think the sound waves are reflected from the edges, back towards the centre creating standing waves. Because it's on a balloon surface (2-dimenstional), you get 2d waveforms which go in and out of phase to create lissajous patterns. They look distorted probably due to mirror placement and bowl shape.
It's from rolling shutter. Consumer cameras aren't equipped with processors that can capture every single pixel of a frame of video at once. Instead it "rolls" and records the pixel information line by line. The camera is processing the pixel information for the full 1/25th of a second, but the vibrations of the laser are so fast, it moves while the camera is saving the pixel data, causing it to appear like more than one line. The only solution would be to use a camera with a global shutter like an URSA Mini or Sony F55. Or you could shoot it with a film camera!
As related to this comment, have a look at this excellent explanation of the rolling shutter effect using slow motion by Smarter Every Day: th-cam.com/video/dNVtMmLlnoE/w-d-xo.html
There is a thing called oscilloscope music. It is pretty cool. Uses layers of pure tones. To draw images on an oscilloscope. I wonder if, you was to play that through your speaker in the bowl. If it would yeld similar results?
I think you would also need a speaker that could play 192khz and lightly a far more precise setup, but I can't think why it wouldn't work on the same principal.
Wow, this takes me way back. In the mid to late 90s I've built something like this with a friend of mine using a red laserpointer and two tape recorder motors, one for the left channel and one for the right. It produced quite interesting results, even though the laserpointer was very dim back then.
I'm a Physics student and I passed through countless courses and onorable professors who unraveled me the craziest secrets of Physics in the most elegant and penetrative manner. But still, I'm hella blasted away by how good this guy explain things.
@@weneedmoreconsideratepeopl4006 what about chemistry? I was looking to understand the beauty behind chemistry to better understand the universe, as in math physics biology, but I couldn't find any interesting title in Chemistry actually because I have not many TH-cam channels or books to learn magics in Chemistry as many as I have in physics and math.
@@DavidMcCoul "Rolling shutter only applies if there is relative motion between the camera and the subject." -- which there is. The laser is a dot, and only a dot, but it is moving around. At any given moment only a portion of the image sensor is being scanned. If you have a camera where you can set shutter speed, then setting it to 1/30th of a second, at 30 frames per second, ensures the stop of one frame is the start of the next and there's little or no gaps.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Good point about the frame of reference of laser and camera; I agree that the jittering could be due to rolling shutter. However, we don't know what Steve's shutter speed was when filming, so I can't discount aliasing as a possibility as well. Also by the Nyquist Theorem, it is always best practice to set your shutter speed (in DSLRs) to at least twice that of your frame rate to avoid aliasing. That would mean a shutter speed of 1/60 s for 30 fps.
Thank you, Steve. Several thoughts come to mind, including Lissajous figures, harmonics, almost zero beat, and Dr. Julius Sumner Miller. But most of all is resonance, my favorite topic, especially with the tuning of (rf) transmitting antennas. Continued success in your endeavors.
This kind of laser/vibration effect reminds me of oscilloscope music, like Jerobeam Fenderson. To be fair he goes all the way and creates music whilst actually creating his own music video ... For anybody interested in oscilloscope music a good demonstration would be Jerobeam Fenderson - Spirals
Oli K - I am pretty sure this wouldn't work, since the oscilloscope figures rely on different physics compared to this effect. But I am not sure, how different they really are. Maybe going to fly by the physics department of my university and plant this idea in their heads.
I'm super happy yt suggested one of your videos. Your channel is like level up from anything else on youtube. Amazing knowledge and impressive creativity in sharing it. Well done! Great stuff!
That code really doesn't need comments. In most cases, I find comments to be more distracting than helpful. They can sometimes be nice to give a high-level overview, but some people think it funny to comment every single line to explain what it does. I mean... I can just read the bloody code. I think, ideally, you don't need any comments. If your code is straight-forward and not too clever, and you use good names for functions and variables, your code should be readable without any.
Yndostrui the problem with reading the code is that it only tells you what it does, not what the coder intended it to do :D a good comment explains why, not what.
Chris: Exactly! morodochable: Well, yes. I did mention that higher-level comments can be useful. I don't think they are warranted for such a small project, though.
I built a Lissajous laser projector around 1980 using a 6" long-throw speaker, a piece of busted mirror, a bit of tape, and a Metrologic ML-800 HeNe laser. Several choons off Pink Floyd The Wall were especially good with this setup. 🙂
Im sure there's some complex maths to describe those patterns. But they are just beautiful and mesmerising to watch. Great video, Steve! Thank you and keep up the good work.
Waves are waves sound light radio micro slow waves are detected with your ears medium wave are heat faster are the colors or light we detect with our eyes. Ultra violet is faster than we can detect normally. Then radio... wait radio lots of info in those waves. 👋
I worked at a planetarium for years (at the time the longest running laser show in America) that had some amazing kit from the decades of folk that were in charge of it. The white light laser was split in half, one half hit a fixed prism to split RGB and the G hit another prism to separate Cyan and Green... these four colors refracted on their own paths to their own scanner amps (two mirrors, one each for X and Y, mounted on galvanometers)... t'other half of the main beam went through a PolyChromatic Optical Acoustic Modulator (PCOAM), a small (teeny) crystal that refracted the light just enough at just the right time to give you any of 16.7M colors... background over, now to the main bit... Each of the 4 RGCB beams could use any of 4 data channels (from a pair of synced ADATs) *_or_* this miraculous board (and the crux of this post) called a *P4* (I've no idea about the name)... this was serious NASA Apollo mission looking kit that was linked to an oscilloscope to preview its output. It was, essentially, a Spirograph generator for the XY scanner amps, letting you create really wild patterns with far too many controls (there were cheat sheets in case you went too far) and the results were similar to what you obtained here. It might be worth your while to look into getting a pair of scanners and recreating what this board did in software... I'm sure somebody has by now... it was just very satisfying to have dials and switches and knobs and the like... I really miss having keys and the alarm codes to the planetarium... star projector slowly spinning, a blanket, some wine...
Something that's really fascinating to me as a musician, the way we determine if two pitches are completely 100% in tune is whether or not you can hear beats between them. If there are 0 beats (technically impossible, but if the beats sound extremely long in between), then we consider it in tune. Whereas the more beats you have, the more out of tune it is. It's interesting to me to see that phenomena visualized in this! As you get two pitches closer and closer in tune, the more stable the oscillations in the video become. The oscillation shown at 6:50 to 7:04ish shows how as the two pitches get closer and closer in tune, the visuals become less active. You don't actually become fully in tune in that clip (presumably because you wanted to keep the visuals moving slightly), but it's fascinating to see that. Another good one is the one at 7:31
I really appreciate that you mentioned your technical difficulties and discrepancies its really fascinating and I beleive helpful for understanding more thoroughly what your talking about. It gives a sense of realness and "reachable/acheivable-ness" to someone like me who doesn't have a lot of experience and science can be intimidating
It's easy to test by rotating the camera 90 degrees and song the differences. The cutoffs in the freeze frames were in a vertical motion, if it's rolling shutter they should be in a horizontal motion.
This is what i wanted to say, though i think the math does not add up. the time the sensors are lit should be much much longer than the time shutter needs to go over the thing. So there should also be a lot more lines compared to endings. Though i just remembered the shutter often consists of multiple parts, so that could explain it. Though then again i would expect to see multiple very short lines
I was about to suggest that as a possibility. There's a lot of movement going on in this pattern, and it's a higher amplitude than the rest, so I could imagine the edge of that piece of mirror being lifted into and blocking the beam momentarily, as the mirror bobbed around.
The start and finish has everything to do with the fact that the laser, no matter how fast it moves, is only a point. The camera shutter being open collects the light from the laser's point as it travels across the pattern for each individual frame and makes the lines appear in the video.
Super cool! I think your seeing the gaps because of the type of sensor. If you have a CMOS sensor. It has a rolling shutter. So it will do the top first, then the the middle, then the bottom. So the laser is doing it's thing. The senor sees it at the top. Then the middle. Then the bottom. But smoother than 3 steps. I would love to see what it looked like with a CCD sensor or a high speed camera.
I always enjoyed lissajous patterns, we used to make them with signal generators and oscilloscopes set to x-y mode back in lab. Though I like how much more organic the ones you've made with the laser and mirror are, and the fact that you can mix more than just two signals.
@@patrick1532 technically, no, because the mirror tilts slightly in every wave, following its shape. and even if it was like you thought, it would create a dot, not a line.
@@GraveUypo But it wouldn't tilt at all if it was perfectly centered on the speaker, the very center just moves up and down linearly. And it would make a line since the laser is at an angle and the distance between the laser and its contact with the mirror would be changing. Obviously it wouldn't be a perfect line because it would be impossible to place the mirror perfectly in the center, but it would be close.
As already knowing and experiencing how sound/music effectively works on my emotions just by listening,now seeing the shape of those certain tone/frequency it worked on my emotions on so many levels I can't even explain right now it find it spiritually uplifting,like I discovered the unknown...or saw a spirit..absolutely fascinating !!
Possibly its also just that the laser doesnt hit the mirror at all times since it is so small and the vibrations on the ballon to strong, depending on the camera it could be rolling shutter, who knows
It would be interesting to teach an AI which sounds create which shapes, and then use it to generate a desired shape by calculating what type of waveform needs to be produced.
Albert Tománek My thoughts exactly. You probably need two speakers to make two waves which can interact with eachother in infinite ways and an enclosure which produces reasonably predictable reflections
A bit late, but the reason why you see multiple starts and ends in 1 frame might be because pictures don't get taken in 1 go. It happens pixel by pixel, row by row. a picture is kinda like a long expose shot that moves from the top to the bottom (sort of like a panorama)
The multiple starts and stops are likely when the laser wasn't pointed at the mirror. That is the wave pattern moved the mirror in such a way that it moved the mirror out of the path of the laser.
Agreed. Not sure if some lateral displacement motion of the mirror on top of the tilt could happen for certain frequencies but it could explain the several strating points even when not in the edge. High speed footage of the mirror could help.
I think it has to do with the rolling shutter, the camera doesn't scan all the parts of the video at once, and it usually starts at the top and scans downwards. The vibrations probably wouldn't be as over the top as you think.
Explanation of multiple loose ends: digital sensor does not take "instant picture" like film does. The after the sensor is exposed to light, the data need to be written to memory line after line (like text on screen). See explanation from "SmarterEveryDay" th-cam.com/users/destinws2 in video "Why Do Cameras Do This? (Rolling Shutter Explained) - Smarter Every Day 172" th-cam.com/video/dNVtMmLlnoE/w-d-xo.html
I’m not sure this is correct. Think of a laser tracing out a circle very quickly. At each instant, one point is lit up on the surface. For convenience let’s say the laser is always firing at the area represented by the top scanline at the start of each exposure. Let’s also say it’s rotating anticlockwise. If the laser traces a circle in the same amount of time it takes to read off one scanline, you’ll see a full circle. If it takes the length of a full exposure, you’ll see two points - one at the very top and another about two thirds of the way around, as the downward scan intersects the laser as it’s heading back up to the origin. If it takes twice as long as a single exposure, you’ll see a semicircle as the laser intersects the scan line on every scan. Now what if the laser completes a full circle in the same time it takes to scan two lines? The first line has the starting point. On the next line, the laser sweeps back up from the bottom, and you only the see dot on the right. The li’e after that, the laser sweeps out the left side again, and you see the dot on the left, but not on the right. So you end up with a pattern where either the left or the right half of the circle is visible on alternating lines - but never both. If the laser completes a full circuit faster than the line rate, then you always see the full pattern. Less than that, you start getting partial patterns. We saw that when Steve turned the frame rate up very high earlier in the video. But that’s the kind of distortion you always end up with - smooth pulses along the continuous pattern. The pulses always line up with the scan direction, because they’re an artefact of the scanning process. The terminators we saw around 6:03 don’t all line up like that.
The image is one still shot so there is no "rolling". My best guess is that it has something to do with the way the image sensor works. Perhaps not every pixel is activate for 100% of the 1/25th of a second? Also - he covered the rolling shutter effect and how he corrected for it.
@@davilathegreat Different cameras have different modes besides *just* auto and manual, byt yes, in automatic mode, parameters like the shutter speed, ISO value, lens aperture, compensation... automatic adjusts *everything.*
This brought back memories from the 60’s. I went to Surfers Paradise in Queensland Australia where they had a “Laserama”. You sat in a domed building in chairs that leaned backwards so the audience were looking at the domed ceiling. When music was played, laser dots would dance around on the ceiling in patterns. If it was classical music, the patterns would form as butterflies or birds or other images that would change shape or size as the tones and crescendos came and went. Bloody amazing
Hey Steve, very cool video! :D I'm pretty shure the reason for the many line endings is the so called "rolling shutter effect". It is created due to the fact that e.g. CMOS sensors are read line by line and not all at once.
2:35 with every note you layer on that one it looks like you're adding a dimension. the first one is 2D, then the second one looks 3D, then the fourth one looks almost like an entirely new dimension... 4D, if you will...
Fish Smell Bad Even if it was a 4D projection we would still only be able to see that as a 3D version so technically it is impossible to see or visualise a 4D object
Actually yes. It depends on the stiffness of the material (in this case the ballon). And that changes as you move around the surface. closer to the edge stiffer and in the middle less stiff.
I loved the Video, I have been an Live Audio Engineer since 1980, in the mid '80 I became certified with Crown T.E.F. Basically to time align components within a speaker cabinet as well as between two or more cabinets or arrays. Couple things we discovered was how a sound waves travel and what happens when a wave has an alignment issue. Looking at a pure tone waves from a 3d view, we see that it is 'Round' like a single drop into water, and the rings moving away represents the wave in time. Looking down through the middle of the wave it is a "Spiral" controlled by amplitude and duration of the tone. As with that single drop in the water the perfectly 'circular' wave will be changed or disrupted by reflections and collusion of the wave when it come in contact with a hard surface or if a second identical waves wave is added slightly out of 'alignment' or 'phase' with the original. We could see, identify and adjust to correct the problems. These interruptions appeared as one or more tiny "LOOPS" along the 'Spiral' or wave ( Nyquist ). The edges of the balloon where it comes together with the speaker is one point that is physical disruption others will be created from the source or beginning or start of the wave. When you saw the multiple beginnings and ends I am thinking those or your 'loops' in the wave. I am going to do some playing around with this and get back with what if anything I find interesting. thom.walbran@gmail.com
IchBinEin While I appreciate any mention of Jerobeam Fenderson, this is a different concept than an oscilloscope and his music wouldn't generate the right pictures with this setup.
What if you had a pice of mirror on the other end of the bowl as well. With a different colored laser, but angled to where when there's no sound playing, both lasers are reflected to the same point. Or use a piece of mylar, then you can change where the laser is hitting on the bowl, and see if a D note makes a different shape depending on where it's hitting
Years ago, I had obtained a 5 inch Oscilloscope and ran my stereo into it. I borrowed two Mini-Moogs from some friends; one for each channel. I recorded onto reel tape. I was creating what I saw in your "Laser + mirror + sound" video, plus a lot more, by changing wave forms as well as sweeping and changing frequencies. I was transfixed for a week. Eventually, I had to return the synthesizers (sigh) I still have a scope, and occasionally put on those recordings which I converted to mp3.
The shape would be translated to a different position on the wall because of the different angle, and also skewed, maybe squashed, and clipped at slightly different angles, but still the same general shape. Two mirrors at different places on the membrane would probably produce different shapes.
Btw the gaps you see that make it look like multiple paths are due to the mirror rotating or translating so far that the laser doesn’t hit it anymore. The reflection stops for a second and then starts over.
I can't help but think of these vibrating images as representations i.e symbols for each sound or combination of sounds produced. Those frequency visuals could represent a real language.
@@NwoDispatcher it could be streamlined to be consistent using different materials and exact measurements to make a standard, universal language of sorts
@@Catnippy what you would want to do is use an oscilloscope and plug in two microphones, one for the X axis and one for Y. This would make it "universal". It's been done.
Roberta - I was thinking along the same lines. Kind of an alien contact language of sound translated to a visual representation. Or a reversal of light to sound. Or what if whale sounds were played through a more precise device than a broken chunk of mirror randomly glued to a haphazardly stretched piece of rubber? A constant standard of precision. I suppose it would still be meaningless to humans...
6:34 It's all because of something called electronic shutter that reads values of charges on pixels in rows (and it goes row by row). That effect is causing bending in some videos with fast moving objects, or as it is right to call, rolling shutter. Well, this is the reason in few words.
7:06 _"This time, in the shape of a mobius strip, inverted, please. Give me that eigenvalue."_ *(This somewhat looks like Tony Stark's formula for time travel!)*
This made my day! I've always been extremely fascinated by psychoacoustics, synestesia, and stuff like that. Never even considered light efx for my home studio, other than maybe a LED bar graph level meter or something.. You've just opened my brain to a whole new level, or realm of possibilities in the field of music visualisation.. I aim to respectfully steal and significantly elaborate on this idea before the end of this year! ❤
I think the multiple start and end points are from potentially from your camera’s rolling shutter - it takes the picture from the top down and the image changes as the shutter captures the image downward. Smarter Every Day showed how that works, but I could be wrong.
This is just conjecture, but perhaps some equation relating the frequency, amplitude, and number of notes with the image projected could be derived and used to manipulate the image to model knots and other curves in higher dimensions. If you look at 2:44, the singular frequencies appear to be 2-dimensional images. However, the set of 2 combined frequencies at 2:55 appear to be some object rotating in 3 dimensions, and the set of 3 combined frequencies at 3:05 looks like an object rotating in 4 dimensions but represented by a 3-dimensional projection flattened onto 2-dimensional space. Is anyone else seeing this?
I see what you're talking about but any periodic motion of a 3d object can be described as slices of an object rotating in 4-space (people seem to be hell bent on making things higher-dimensional). I'm really curious if a model for these curves could be determined. I just bought a laser pointer and intend to reproduce this experiment. I know a decent amount of math so I hope I can use that to determine a model that I can use to produce arbitrary curves - perhaps pictures. I guess we'll see.
Might be tough to model. When he overlayed 2 or 3 notes he introduced harmonics and subtones, essentially making 1+1=3. should still be possible, not not nearly as straightforward. but still very cool
my god you guys are a genius.... amazing.... keep on the good work.. think more ...discover or invent something and do good for the good people of the world.
Good thought, though he did say that the breaks didn't show up with his eyes? Thought that could be persistence of vision tricking him. Also the breaks appear to be near the center of the image whereas my intuition says that effect would show up near the edges? We need to get a slow mo camera pointed at the mirror!
The line breaks he shows are in individual frames of a video capture. The mirror would not be going up and down when shooting video, it'd be permanently up... assuming he's even using a camera with a mirror.
Why just a fragment of mirror though? Couldnt the same effect be done with a larger piece? Or maybe the weight of the increased size would negate some of the effects?
Mylar might work, I was thinking a curved mirror surface would move the beam more, which might be good. The only problem with mylar would be if it weren't smooth. You could probably get rid if the balloon entirely and use cling wrap or foil.
The observation of multiple start and endpoints during a single frame may be explained by rolling shutter. It takes some time for the camera to read out the entire sensor, and as the laser moves it will be captured by the sensor at different times, making it seems like it has jumped from one place to another one.
My dad invented something similar in the 70s and called it a laserscope. It was in a sealed box with a phosphor coating so that the trail would continue glowing a few milliseconds after the laser activated it.
Binyamin Tsadik please tell me that it was used by psychedelic bands to make amazing light shows during their music. And please tell me that it still exists. That's the kind of stuff that I love. I have a number of homemade special effect lighting units that were used back in the 60s and 70s. That sounds like an amazing invention.
I think my dad threw out his last one a few years ago. He had a contract to make a large one at the CN Tower in Toronto for their dance floor, but it was more expensive than the standard lighting and decoration of the time so it was scrapped. I think he sold a few to some individuals back then that probably did psychadelics. He told me that he optimized the devices to the "Dark side of the moon" album.
Binyamin Tsadik, oh I understand that all to well brother. We see the guy no one else does. No need for his info, just sounds like an interesting fella.
It's amazing how many toroids it makes (shapes that move in and out of themselves) considering it's just a tiny part of the side. Fractals I would guess
Goddamit, Mould. I held off watching this vid over other recommendations ... coz how much more science can there be really? There was a lot of info in this vid, and you presented it all beautifully as usual. I never have a need to rewind or rewatch your vids because I missed something. Thank you again :)
@Steve Mould Answer to your question about the loose ends: Cameras read the data produced on the sensor in rows or columns, in very quick succession. I would reckon it still does this at a low shutterspeed, just going over all the rows multiple times, making a sort of 'mean' image of all the scans. This would explain cuts in the continuous shapes. If true, filming analogue would give different results.
Y'all check out Jerobeam Fenderson, he's making shapes and visualizations like those from an oscilloscope. He even made a short movie ("Reconstruct") entirely out of sound. Nice job with the video!
this needs to be combined with a high speed camera badly, to film the surface and the laser simultaneously and see how it casts the shape on the wall. that would be absolutely nuts
This ^
This ^
This ^
The slow mo guys video idea maybe?
problem: high speed cameras require more light per frame (hence faster shutter speed). You'd either need a brighter light source or longer exposures, which defeats the purpose. Maybe one of those crazy "pop balloons from 100 meters" lazers, but then what kind of setup could handle that laser? The balloon would either get sliced up or the wall would get burnt up.
I find it fascinating how my brain insists on interpreting these as three-dimensional wireframe shapes in space.
Just a prove of how lazy our brain in nitpicking details and interpret it in a familiar way.
@@ThatGuy-zw4le Or just how complex it is, allowing us to feel a 3d shape on a 2d material
@@petiscarabe1583 Good point
@@petiscarabe1583 well it's kinda silly because our vision is 2D just like an image on the screen and we get depth perception in our brain. It's just how human/animal brain works. Nothing surprising about it.
@@bayraktarx1386 but then is our vision still in 2d? I mean if our brain recreates depth perception thanks to our two different pov from our two different eyes, can we still say our vision's 2d? For instance, what about a guy with only one eye working: he obviously sees in 2d as he can't feel depth. Are we just the same?
I mean we're probably agreeing, just interpreting the words differently, but it's nice to have an other opinion since I've been asking myself those funny questions lol for a long time
There probably is a certain combination of frequencies that draws a walking stickman.
Kerim Kerim or even a human being.
You just described the Fourier Series.
th-cam.com/video/r6sGWTCMz2k/w-d-xo.html
@@jamesr1894 The great 3B1B!
@@siddgangadhar1234 That's great that it's actually a thing
6:25 This has to do with the fact that different parts of the frame start and end their exposure at different times. Rolling shutters are an easy example - the top of the frame has different "frame separation time" than the bottom of the frame. In this case the laser path is crossing the area where the shutter is closed multiple times per frame, hence multiple "start" and "end" points.
To make the effect far closer to human experience, you need to film the surface with the laser using very high speed camera (25000 Hz for a 25 fps movie) and then use postprocessing to "connect the dots" on the subframes using splines.
Or maybe the fact that the piece of mirror can be to little and the laser just goes out and we loose a part of the pass
@@sengertrystan6003 if that were the case he would have noticed it IRL
@@loganiushere that's why I said maybe, I wasn't sure
@@sengertrystan6003 plus the beam would probably be distorted by the glass edge.
Yep, that's what I came here to say.
I wish you had 2 laser pointers, for example red and green with little offset
Just for the graphical experience. :)
great ass idea
just set this up myself, im gonna try it.
with a violet, green, and red at the same time.
Blue + Red + 3D glasses. :)
@@willdaugherty8619 link me a video
@@willdaugherty8619 did youever do this?
at 6:04 i think it may be because its a rolling shutter and not global, so it can cause the different starts and endings based on the sweeping across of the pixels
That's my thought on it as well. The image is sampled/stored in rows, or even pixel by pixel. From one corner to the opposite corner of the sensor matrix. It's interesting to see the gaps. It's showing that not only is the moving image representation of reality in video not continuous, neither are the still images that are taken
Yes, if the shutter is rolling across the frame slower than the laser is moving across the frame, then it will have to have multiple start and end points.
I'm an audio engineer (see my other comments #Nyquist & #3Dwaves) It is possible that the wave is 'Clipping' a "Square Wave".
Windows media player back when it was good
My first thought as well
Here let me bring your memories back.
Winamp with AVS active
Winamp had a fully customizable visualization feature . Had played a lot of sine cos tan on that
Dude I had to watch that in school assembly for like 30 minutes XD
"YoU wIlL ObEY aLl TeaChERs"
😂😂😂
This brought back memories. I made one of these out of a tin coffee can back in the 90's for my high school physics class with a red laser pointer. I used a keyboard with a pitch shift to make crazy patterns. Good times lol.
What kind of speaker is needed? I would like to try this.
@@Paul-ou1rx I used one from an old radio. Like a boom box. It needs to be large enough to move enough air and this is usually easier with lower frequencies, so it needs to have some bass to it. I used a large balloon and stretched it over the open end of the can. Used a hot glue gun to build a little mound of glue in the center of it and broke a compact to get a small piece of mirror then glued it to the top of the glue mound. Then either cut a hole in the other side or use a can opener to completely remove the other end so it's open, then you can set it on a speaker thats pointing up. As long as the container is over it so the sound waves are directed toward the balloon, the balloon will vibrate in relation to the sound waves hitting it. I used on old piece of metal stripping and screwed it to the outside of the coffee can and zip tied the laser pointer to it. The metal was flexible enough that I could aim it to insure it was reflecting off the mirror. I also took the laser pointer apart and attached a variable watt power adaptor to it so it would run off of that and not run watch batteries down after a few minutes of using it.
…and I made one in the 1960s with multiple mirrors and my Dad’s slide projector as a spotlight to hit them all. Pretty funkadelic! I was lucky to have a father who tolerated my experiments. Edmund Scientific had the parts and plans.
I love how three dimensional the shapes look.
thats all i can see when its flipping around, and when the lasers line up like perfectly its so satisfying
Agreed
To get a 3D shadow, you need a 4D object
@J Boss that's not how it dimensions work, bud
@J Boss he's talking about mathematical dimensions, not physical ones
Wow, this is one of the coolest videos I've seen in a long time. Very interesting facts about sound and photography/videography. Thanks for making great content, Steve!
Thanks :)
Most amazing light sound visualization
That is almost exactly what I made for my first laser light show in 1993. I used 2 rubber bands stretched over a speaker cone anchored to holes in the cone. Music usually looks like garbage, but by attaching paper clips, you can create a resonant frequency for the mirror, and playing with it, you get better patterns for the music you like.
Jonnyreverb .. Love it!!
The idea came from a home laser show a friend had; the Laser FX from Spencers Gifts in the early 1990's...
There was a guy in high school who did this for light shows during concerts. That was 1973. I still marvel at how bright some were back then.
6:02 most likely rolling shutter, the reason propellers usually look like they are bending in a funky way with a camera
Jessentis yep
Ur smart
what if u did that in a completely foggy room
No clue
O: someone please do this
@@105ug can you try record it? !
gtx420ti update?
@@greasyt9400 they died
Imagine creating a written language based on the patterns created by these sounds. Theoretically you could take a raw video of this and turn it into audio!! Incredible!!
Mason Sellman yea that would be interesting..
That was exactly my tought too ... it remembered me something like the movie “the Arrival”. I know its not the same, but the emotional response I had was very a like.
Mason Sellman ..its already been done.... Trust me
Runes created by shining rays of light into a crystal at different angles....it's been done.
yeah
I"d love to see different wave shapes (square, sawtooth) and modulations. Hooking the speaker up to a synth would be awesome.
I did the experiment and one of the most fascinating shapes were combinations of sine and triangle waves.
Had this exact thought
Haha exactly. I instantly started thinking how to do this myself with a synthesizer
Duuuuuude I've never seen harmonics visualized like this, that is truly fascinating
6:04 maybe the balloon vibrates so much that the laser stops hitting the mirror on the balloon for a bit
Fish Smell Bad that actually makes so much sense 😂
Fish Smell Bad oh actualy that sounds brilliant XD
I believe that is the case. I also wrote something similar before seeing your comment :) I hope this explanation reaches the video poster :) It would be interesting to see what he thinks of it. :) Liked for more visibility :)
Light is to fast, I don't think thats possible
Lucas Boisneau i don't think you understand what he meant. He means the shard of mirror on the balloon moved out of the lasers path and was just hitting the balloon. It has nothing to do with the speed of light just movement of the balloon.
Literally dropped my jaw when those freq's were on top of each other.
Same bro same
+1. Me too! This was mind blowing!
7:20 was my favorite.
Its also weird how the frequencies that are nice to listen to are also nice to look at.
The more simpler the relationships between the notes are the more pleasing they generally sound to us
That’s because our eyes are made of fractals and those shapes we’re looking at are fractals.
@@ThePinkBinkswhat
What you describe are so called "lissajous patterns".
Jerobeam Fenderson made a whole album with music that creates such patterns.
Those patterns as audio represent a stereo pair of signals, where left is one axis and right is the other axis, when they drive a beam simultaneously they produce a deterministic pattern when visualized. That is very different from what is happening here where you have an indirect frequency response where the axes are coupled through a physically dynamic system and the signal is monotone and indirectly driving the amplitude through a physical process of resonant harmonics.
@@dorbie What topics in physics should I read to understand this phenomenon/ experiment?
@@GGGTOP802 It's laser light reflecting off a mirror. That in itself covers a few subjects some more advanced than others and with hidden depths should you choose to delve. Light, optics & reflection and lasers. Then there's the deflection of the mirror driven by a wave, so acoustics, wave theory, resonance and perhaps a spring-mass simulation of a membrane. Then the thing that drives the sound, a speaker involving electromagnetism, and the tone generator to generate the wave electricity and electronics (probably analog). Of course if you're happy with the high level description then the most interesting part is the complex resonant pattern of the reflected acoustic wave on the membrane that turns a 1D sound wave into a complex 2D / 3D deformation. It's a deep well of physical phenomenon depending on what parts you want to pick apart and how deep you want to go, e.g. the laser alone could lead you to learn about Quantum Mechanics.
@@dorbie I think Dominik is correct in his identification of the phenomenon. I think the sound waves are reflected from the edges, back towards the centre creating standing waves. Because it's on a balloon surface (2-dimenstional), you get 2d waveforms which go in and out of phase to create lissajous patterns. They look distorted probably due to mirror placement and bowl shape.
@@JJKebab9 It's not a bad analogy but not entirely accurate either.
It's from rolling shutter. Consumer cameras aren't equipped with processors that can capture every single pixel of a frame of video at once. Instead it "rolls" and records the pixel information line by line. The camera is processing the pixel information for the full 1/25th of a second, but the vibrations of the laser are so fast, it moves while the camera is saving the pixel data, causing it to appear like more than one line. The only solution would be to use a camera with a global shutter like an URSA Mini or Sony F55. Or you could shoot it with a film camera!
Rolling shutter it is indeed. Solution is to do the experiment yourself, It's quite intriguing.
Film cameras don't have a global shutter they have a literal rolling shutter
Chase Weeks Ah, TIL! I’ve never shot on film. Just assumed.
+
As related to this comment, have a look at this excellent explanation of the rolling shutter effect using slow motion by Smarter Every Day: th-cam.com/video/dNVtMmLlnoE/w-d-xo.html
There is a thing called oscilloscope music. It is pretty cool. Uses layers of pure tones. To draw images on an oscilloscope. I wonder if, you was to play that through your speaker in the bowl. If it would yeld similar results?
i was thinking the exact same thing
you would have to isolate the x and y movement to separate speakers
They are called lissajou patterns (spelling)
@@JenniferEliseAtchiso Lissajous. Audio vectorscopes perform this very task.
I think you would also need a speaker that could play 192khz and lightly a far more precise setup, but I can't think why it wouldn't work on the same principal.
Wow, this takes me way back.
In the mid to late 90s I've built something like this with a friend of mine using a red laserpointer and two tape recorder motors, one for the left channel and one for the right. It produced quite interesting results, even though the laserpointer was very dim back then.
I'm a Physics student and I passed through countless courses and onorable professors who unraveled me the craziest secrets of Physics in the most elegant and penetrative manner. But still, I'm hella blasted away by how good this guy explain things.
hey, is there any physics book about vibration and waves?
@@saturn3478 look up Hans Jenny's work on cymatics: a study of wave phenomena (
@@weneedmoreconsideratepeopl4006 what about chemistry? I was looking to understand the beauty behind chemistry to better understand the universe, as in math physics biology, but I couldn't find any interesting title in Chemistry actually because I have not many TH-cam channels or books to learn magics in Chemistry as many as I have in physics and math.
The reason his explanations seem so good is because he isn't talking about the mathematics of anything
@@saturn3478 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustics
Rolling shutter is what causes the multiple start-end points :)
not rolling shutter
continuous frame transitions
It’s known as “aliasing” caused by the frame rate. Rolling shutter only applies if there is relative motion between the camera and the subject.
@@DavidMcCoul "Rolling shutter only applies if there is relative motion between the camera and the subject." -- which there is. The laser is a dot, and only a dot, but it is moving around. At any given moment only a portion of the image sensor is being scanned. If you have a camera where you can set shutter speed, then setting it to 1/30th of a second, at 30 frames per second, ensures the stop of one frame is the start of the next and there's little or no gaps.
@@thomasmaughan4798 Good point about the frame of reference of laser and camera; I agree that the jittering could be due to rolling shutter. However, we don't know what Steve's shutter speed was when filming, so I can't discount aliasing as a possibility as well. Also by the Nyquist Theorem, it is always best practice to set your shutter speed (in DSLRs) to at least twice that of your frame rate to avoid aliasing. That would mean a shutter speed of 1/60 s for 30 fps.
David McCoul take a look at the explanation of rolling shutter then you’ll understand.
th-cam.com/video/dNVtMmLlnoE/w-d-xo.html
this should be a loading screen!
9:00
this is
*sAucE fOr inspIRAtiOn*
Thank you, Steve. Several thoughts come to mind, including Lissajous figures, harmonics, almost zero beat, and Dr. Julius Sumner Miller. But most of all is resonance, my favorite topic, especially with the tuning of (rf) transmitting antennas. Continued success in your endeavors.
What happens with the antennas?
This kind of laser/vibration effect reminds me of oscilloscope music, like Jerobeam Fenderson. To be fair he goes all the way and creates music whilst actually creating his own music video ...
For anybody interested in oscilloscope music a good demonstration would be Jerobeam Fenderson - Spirals
my thoughts to
yes i instantly thought of jerobeam from this
It would be interesting to play Jerobeams music on this setup.
thats what I thought - it might be possible to use this methode to project oscilloscope music to a wall- without a oscilloscope
Oli K - I am pretty sure this wouldn't work, since the oscilloscope figures rely on different physics compared to this effect. But I am not sure, how different they really are. Maybe going to fly by the physics department of my university and plant this idea in their heads.
I'm super happy yt suggested one of your videos. Your channel is like level up from anything else on youtube. Amazing knowledge and impressive creativity in sharing it. Well done! Great stuff!
"You'll be pleased to know I've used very few comments"
That broke me.
Its like "Have a look at it, but dont have any idea what it is." What a legend
That code really doesn't need comments. In most cases, I find comments to be more distracting than helpful.
They can sometimes be nice to give a high-level overview, but some people think it funny to comment every single line to explain what it does. I mean... I can just read the bloody code.
I think, ideally, you don't need any comments. If your code is straight-forward and not too clever, and you use good names for functions and variables, your code should be readable without any.
Yndostrui the problem with reading the code is that it only tells you what it does, not what the coder intended it to do :D a good comment explains why, not what.
Well written, maintainable code should not need a lot of comments. I say that as a purist, not a lazy engineer.
Chris: Exactly!
morodochable: Well, yes. I did mention that higher-level comments can be useful. I don't think they are warranted for such a small project, though.
I built a Lissajous laser projector around 1980 using a 6" long-throw speaker, a piece of busted mirror, a bit of tape, and a Metrologic ML-800 HeNe laser. Several choons off Pink Floyd The Wall were especially good with this setup. 🙂
Is this what heaven is ?
😮
Im sure there's some complex maths to describe those patterns. But they are just beautiful and mesmerising to watch.
Great video, Steve! Thank you and keep up the good work.
@Roxana Şanta Lissajous patterns require two inputs, this only one
@@mbrusyda9437 The two inputs are pitch and roll of the mirror.
"Dude, I can see sounds!"
Waves are waves sound light radio micro slow waves are detected with your ears medium wave are heat faster are the colors or light we detect with our eyes. Ultra violet is faster than we can detect normally. Then radio... wait radio lots of info in those waves. 👋
I can hear the picture!
Bro you are going to flip when you find out what spectrograms are!
What is a great game to get the app and cut off with the cutting screen 📺
Jsab players in a nutshell
I worked at a planetarium for years (at the time the longest running laser show in America) that had some amazing kit from the decades of folk that were in charge of it. The white light laser was split in half, one half hit a fixed prism to split RGB and the G hit another prism to separate Cyan and Green... these four colors refracted on their own paths to their own scanner amps (two mirrors, one each for X and Y, mounted on galvanometers)... t'other half of the main beam went through a PolyChromatic Optical Acoustic Modulator (PCOAM), a small (teeny) crystal that refracted the light just enough at just the right time to give you any of 16.7M colors... background over, now to the main bit...
Each of the 4 RGCB beams could use any of 4 data channels (from a pair of synced ADATs) *_or_* this miraculous board (and the crux of this post) called a *P4* (I've no idea about the name)... this was serious NASA Apollo mission looking kit that was linked to an oscilloscope to preview its output. It was, essentially, a Spirograph generator for the XY scanner amps, letting you create really wild patterns with far too many controls (there were cheat sheets in case you went too far) and the results were similar to what you obtained here. It might be worth your while to look into getting a pair of scanners and recreating what this board did in software... I'm sure somebody has by now... it was just very satisfying to have dials and switches and knobs and the like...
I really miss having keys and the alarm codes to the planetarium... star projector slowly spinning, a blanket, some wine...
Orion, did you ever leave for work and forget your belt?
orion khan Real shit over here-
Oh man... You're making me want to apply to work at the one in my school (one of the biggest in the US).
Something that's really fascinating to me as a musician, the way we determine if two pitches are completely 100% in tune is whether or not you can hear beats between them. If there are 0 beats (technically impossible, but if the beats sound extremely long in between), then we consider it in tune. Whereas the more beats you have, the more out of tune it is. It's interesting to me to see that phenomena visualized in this!
As you get two pitches closer and closer in tune, the more stable the oscillations in the video become. The oscillation shown at 6:50 to 7:04ish shows how as the two pitches get closer and closer in tune, the visuals become less active. You don't actually become fully in tune in that clip (presumably because you wanted to keep the visuals moving slightly), but it's fascinating to see that.
Another good one is the one at 7:31
I’ve noticed more of the sharp notes or off tune notes seem to be more ugly in terms of it being symmetrical unlike the notes that goes to together
Some of these look like 4D cubes rotating in 3D ... amazing!
4:58 "set camera to manual and its going to make those calculations for you" ----> "set camera to automatic"*
you dont quote the correction as you are saying it right now and not quoting it.
Yeah, I was gonna say it
Would love to see how different intervals of tones like 5ths and 3rds, major, minor, diminished etc would have an effect on the shape of the laser
especially octaves :)
It would be very messy. A single note has 3 pure frecuencies and combining more than 3 gets wird
3 notes for a chord
manuel cavieres
A single note has a single frequency unless you’re playing an actual instrument with certain timbre
th-cam.com/channels/ECl4aNz5hvuRzW5fgCOHKQ.html
I really appreciate that you mentioned your technical difficulties and discrepancies its really fascinating and I beleive helpful for understanding more thoroughly what your talking about. It gives a sense of realness and "reachable/acheivable-ness" to someone like me who doesn't have a lot of experience and science can be intimidating
Maybe has to do something with the rolling shutter effect.
Frames are not directly saved as a whole, they generelly are saved line by line.
It would definitely make sense.
kc3vv I also think rolling shutter effect
kc3vv came here to say this.
It's easy to test by rotating the camera 90 degrees and song the differences. The cutoffs in the freeze frames were in a vertical motion, if it's rolling shutter they should be in a horizontal motion.
This is what i wanted to say, though i think the math does not add up. the time the sensors are lit should be much much longer than the time shutter needs to go over the thing. So there should also be a lot more lines compared to endings.
Though i just remembered the shutter often consists of multiple parts, so that could explain it. Though then again i would expect to see multiple very short lines
The multiple start/finishes are probably where the laser misses the mirror?
I was about to suggest that as a possibility. There's a lot of movement going on in this pattern, and it's a higher amplitude than the rest, so I could imagine the edge of that piece of mirror being lifted into and blocking the beam momentarily, as the mirror bobbed around.
The start and finish has everything to do with the fact that the laser, no matter how fast it moves, is only a point. The camera shutter being open collects the light from the laser's point as it travels across the pattern for each individual frame and makes the lines appear in the video.
makes sense to me! 👌🏽
it could also be the rolling shutter
@@doaltplusf4448 that would be something I know nothing about. so I differ to you sir.
Super cool! I think your seeing the gaps because of the type of sensor. If you have a CMOS sensor. It has a rolling shutter. So it will do the top first, then the the middle, then the bottom. So the laser is doing it's thing. The senor sees it at the top. Then the middle. Then the bottom. But smoother than 3 steps. I would love to see what it looked like with a CCD sensor or a high speed camera.
Yes, that probably is why you can see many star/end points on some frames
That for sure, and the laser might also clip off the edge of the mirror as well.
shaking mirror= laser misses mirror
I always enjoyed lissajous patterns, we used to make them with signal generators and oscilloscopes set to x-y mode back in lab. Though I like how much more organic the ones you've made with the laser and mirror are, and the fact that you can mix more than just two signals.
5:55 its definitely about the direction that the shutter opens/closes, when the frames are taken it sweeps across the lens in a certain direction
Pause at 2:35
"This funny pattern here"
Andro121 haha I get it😂😅
*( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)*
Upside down laserdick
laser dick
@@vaishnavplays203 hahahahhaha welcome to the joke do you have a reservation
Needs to be centered perfectly to see the real shape.
And maybe a circle mirror, so the teetering will be even
Nah I'm pretty sure that would just create a line, if it was in the center it would only move up and down
This video has inspired me drastically. Now to attempt to incorporate this knowledge into my creations
@@patrick1532 technically, no, because the mirror tilts slightly in every wave, following its shape. and even if it was like you thought, it would create a dot, not a line.
@@GraveUypo But it wouldn't tilt at all if it was perfectly centered on the speaker, the very center just moves up and down linearly. And it would make a line since the laser is at an angle and the distance between the laser and its contact with the mirror would be changing.
Obviously it wouldn't be a perfect line because it would be impossible to place the mirror perfectly in the center, but it would be close.
As already knowing and experiencing how sound/music effectively works on my emotions just by listening,now seeing the shape of those certain tone/frequency it worked on my emotions on so many levels I can't even explain right now it find it spiritually uplifting,like I discovered the unknown...or saw a spirit..absolutely fascinating !!
CORRECTION : 4:58 - It should be "automatic" instead of "manual"
Ayush Ranjan true
+1
yes. a speako.
Why did you reply to me?
indjev99 obviously... because I'm stupid and pressed the wrong button.
Possibly its also just that the laser doesnt hit the mirror at all times since it is so small and the vibrations on the ballon to strong, depending on the camera it could be rolling shutter, who knows
It would be interesting to teach an AI which sounds create which shapes, and then use it to generate a desired shape by calculating what type of waveform needs to be produced.
Albert Tománek My thoughts exactly. You probably need two speakers to make two waves which can interact with eachother in infinite ways and an enclosure which produces reasonably predictable reflections
AI not needed, nor useful in this case. Just some research and plain calculations.
gopher even a computer should suffice. Just coffee done parameters and done.
It's already been done by Jerrobeam Fenderson, he has tons of these
th-cam.com/video/rtR63-ecUNo/w-d-xo.html
A bit late, but the reason why you see multiple starts and ends in 1 frame might be because pictures don't get taken in 1 go. It happens pixel by pixel, row by row. a picture is kinda like a long expose shot that moves from the top to the bottom (sort of like a panorama)
The multiple starts and stops are likely when the laser wasn't pointed at the mirror. That is the wave pattern moved the mirror in such a way that it moved the mirror out of the path of the laser.
Wouldn't that happen only at the edges of the figure?
David Wührer Not necessarily. In the middle, it could have ended up hitting the edge of the mirror instead of the top
Nihseeth Pandey
That would also be at the edges of the figure.
Agreed. Not sure if some lateral displacement motion of the mirror on top of the tilt could happen for certain frequencies but it could explain the several strating points even when not in the edge. High speed footage of the mirror could help.
I think it has to do with the rolling shutter, the camera doesn't scan all the parts of the video at once, and it usually starts at the top and scans downwards. The vibrations probably wouldn't be as over the top as you think.
Rolling shutter is the culprit of the multiple ends
Ooh, yes!
Explanation of multiple loose ends: digital sensor does not take "instant picture" like film does. The after the sensor is exposed to light, the data need to be written to memory line after line (like text on screen). See explanation from "SmarterEveryDay" th-cam.com/users/destinws2 in video "Why Do Cameras Do This? (Rolling Shutter Explained) - Smarter Every Day 172" th-cam.com/video/dNVtMmLlnoE/w-d-xo.html
I’m not sure this is correct. Think of a laser tracing out a circle very quickly. At each instant, one point is lit up on the surface. For convenience let’s say the laser is always firing at the area represented by the top scanline at the start of each exposure. Let’s also say it’s rotating anticlockwise.
If the laser traces a circle in the same amount of time it takes to read off one scanline, you’ll see a full circle. If it takes the length of a full exposure, you’ll see two points - one at the very top and another about two thirds of the way around, as the downward scan intersects the laser as it’s heading back up to the origin. If it takes twice as long as a single exposure, you’ll see a semicircle as the laser intersects the scan line on every scan.
Now what if the laser completes a full circle in the same time it takes to scan two lines? The first line has the starting point. On the next line, the laser sweeps back up from the bottom, and you only the see dot on the right. The li’e after that, the laser sweeps out the left side again, and you see the dot on the left, but not on the right. So you end up with a pattern where either the left or the right half of the circle is visible on alternating lines - but never both.
If the laser completes a full circuit faster than the line rate, then you always see the full pattern. Less than that, you start getting partial patterns. We saw that when Steve turned the frame rate up very high earlier in the video. But that’s the kind of distortion you always end up with - smooth pulses along the continuous pattern. The pulses always line up with the scan direction, because they’re an artefact of the scanning process. The terminators we saw around 6:03 don’t all line up like that.
Came here to say this...
The image is one still shot so there is no "rolling". My best guess is that it has something to do with the way the image sensor works. Perhaps not every pixel is activate for 100% of the 1/25th of a second?
Also - he covered the rolling shutter effect and how he corrected for it.
4:55 You said "manual" twice, I think you meant "automatic" the first time right?
Yeah, I caught that too, and don't know jack about cameras, so I assume he meant that automatic would choose your settings for you.
@@davilathegreat Different cameras have different modes besides *just* auto and manual, byt yes, in automatic mode, parameters like the shutter speed, ISO value, lens aperture, compensation... automatic adjusts *everything.*
This brought back memories from the 60’s. I went to Surfers Paradise in Queensland Australia where they had a “Laserama”. You sat in a domed building in chairs that leaned backwards so the audience were looking at the domed ceiling. When music was played, laser dots would dance around on the ceiling in patterns. If it was classical music, the patterns would form as butterflies or birds or other images that would change shape or size as the tones and crescendos came and went. Bloody amazing
Hey Steve, very cool video! :D
I'm pretty shure the reason for the many line endings is the so called "rolling shutter effect". It is created due to the fact that e.g. CMOS sensors are read line by line and not all at once.
That's neat!
2:35 with every note you layer on that one it looks like you're adding a dimension. the first one is 2D, then the second one looks 3D, then the fourth one looks almost like an entirely new dimension... 4D, if you will...
Fish Smell Bad ohhhhh yea. Super satisfying.
I does really look like 4D rotation, I experimented a bit with 4D animations and it seemed very similar
So you have never seen 4D object?
Fish Smell Bad Even if it was a 4D projection we would still only be able to see that as a 3D version so technically it is impossible to see or visualise a 4D object
Fish Smell Bad string theory
If you move mirror position, maybe they'll look different!?
Absolutely. There are so many variables to these shapes.
Position on the balloon you mean? I dont think that'll make a difference
Actually yes. It depends on the stiffness of the material (in this case the ballon). And that changes as you move around the surface. closer to the edge stiffer and in the middle less stiff.
@@the__Ultraviolet Oh, I see.
The balloon has different modes and nodes all over it's surface. He was clear that this was a sample of that one spot on the balloon.
I loved the Video, I have been an Live Audio Engineer since 1980, in the mid '80 I became certified with Crown T.E.F. Basically to time align components within a speaker cabinet as well as between two or more cabinets or arrays. Couple things we discovered was how a sound waves travel and what happens when a wave has an alignment issue. Looking at a pure tone waves from a 3d view, we see that it is 'Round' like a single drop into water, and the rings moving away represents the wave in time. Looking down through the middle of the wave it is a "Spiral" controlled by amplitude and duration of the tone. As with that single drop in the water the perfectly 'circular' wave will be changed or disrupted by reflections and collusion of the wave when it come in contact with a hard surface or if a second identical waves wave is added slightly out of 'alignment' or 'phase' with the original. We could see, identify and adjust to correct the problems. These interruptions appeared as one or more tiny "LOOPS" along the 'Spiral' or wave ( Nyquist ). The edges of the balloon where it comes together with the speaker is one point that is physical disruption others will be created from the source or beginning or start of the wave. When you saw the multiple beginnings and ends I am thinking those or your 'loops' in the wave. I am going to do some playing around with this and get back with what if anything I find interesting. thom.walbran@gmail.com
There's probably a mathematical way to play a certain frequency to make any shape you want
circuit dreamer oscilloscope music look it up
There's a musician named Jerobeam Fenderson who makes music that creates shapes on an oscilloscope. It's mesmerizing to look at.
circuit dreamer *penis shape*
th-cam.com/video/kPUdhm2VE-o/w-d-xo.html
IchBinEin While I appreciate any mention of Jerobeam Fenderson, this is a different concept than an oscilloscope and his music wouldn't generate the right pictures with this setup.
What if you had a pice of mirror on the other end of the bowl as well. With a different colored laser, but angled to where when there's no sound playing, both lasers are reflected to the same point. Or use a piece of mylar, then you can change where the laser is hitting on the bowl, and see if a D note makes a different shape depending on where it's hitting
Yes!. That is exactly was I was wanting too. I'd choose 3 spots for the mirrors. Center, edge, and midway. Light ballet. :)
this man posting minecraft cave ambient noise and think we would't notice
Ooo my dog cave update plz
oinse
Very very cool demo. The idea of using that simplified setup was brilliant. Big thumbs up.
Years ago, I had obtained a 5 inch Oscilloscope and ran my stereo into it.
I borrowed two Mini-Moogs from some friends; one for each channel.
I recorded onto reel tape.
I was creating what I saw in your "Laser + mirror + sound" video, plus a lot more, by changing wave forms as well as sweeping and changing frequencies.
I was transfixed for a week. Eventually, I had to return the synthesizers (sigh)
I still have a scope, and occasionally put on those recordings which I converted to mp3.
Nice!
Steve, could you post a follow up video with two colored lasers aiming at the piece of mirror at different angles?
Wouldn't that just produce the same image twice in different colours?
It might, but I would think that the different angle would produce a different shape.
The shape would be translated to a different position on the wall because of the different angle, and also skewed, maybe squashed, and clipped at slightly different angles, but still the same general shape.
Two mirrors at different places on the membrane would probably produce different shapes.
Some of these patterns strongly reminds me of Modern Warfare logos.
Btw the gaps you see that make it look like multiple paths are due to the mirror rotating or translating so far that the laser doesn’t hit it anymore. The reflection stops for a second and then starts over.
I can't help but think of these vibrating images as representations i.e symbols for each sound or combination of sounds produced. Those frequency visuals could represent a real language.
@Shawn Camburn lmaoo
I dont know, the surface he made to make the symbols is probably not reproducible
@@NwoDispatcher it could be streamlined to be consistent using different materials and exact measurements to make a standard, universal language of sorts
@@Catnippy what you would want to do is use an oscilloscope and plug in two microphones, one for the X axis and one for Y. This would make it "universal". It's been done.
Roberta - I was thinking along the same lines. Kind of an alien contact language of sound translated to a visual representation.
Or a reversal of light to sound. Or what if whale sounds were played through a more precise device than a broken chunk of mirror randomly glued to a haphazardly stretched piece of rubber?
A constant standard of precision.
I suppose it would still be meaningless to humans...
6:34 It's all because of something called electronic shutter that reads values of charges on pixels in rows (and it goes row by row). That effect is causing bending in some videos with fast moving objects, or as it is right to call, rolling shutter. Well, this is the reason in few words.
Thanks
7:06 _"This time, in the shape of a mobius strip, inverted, please. Give me that eigenvalue."_
*(This somewhat looks like Tony Stark's formula for time travel!)*
This made my day! I've always been extremely fascinated by psychoacoustics, synestesia, and stuff like that. Never even considered light efx for my home studio, other than maybe a LED bar graph level meter or something.. You've just opened my brain to a whole new level, or realm of possibilities in the field of music visualisation.. I aim to respectfully steal and significantly elaborate on this idea before the end of this year! ❤
I think the multiple start and end points are from potentially from your camera’s rolling shutter - it takes the picture from the top down and the image changes as the shutter captures the image downward. Smarter Every Day showed how that works, but I could be wrong.
This has to be one of the coolest things I've seen in a while
You missed the perfect opportunity to use the notes from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Great idea Devil's Advocate. I would like to see that.
Me too!
Me three!
Brilliant
Devil's Advocate me four
We connected this idea to our Rhodes Piano! You’ll find the video on our channel. Thank you, Steve! 😊
Rolling shutter causes the multiple line start-end points
aka flying shutter
@@AZOffRoadster rolling shutter not flying
@@guser436 shutting flyer
Subscribed! Super intriguing video, this was brilliant and loads of fun to watch. Thank you!
This is just conjecture, but perhaps some equation relating the frequency, amplitude, and number of notes with the image projected could be derived and used to manipulate the image to model knots and other curves in higher dimensions. If you look at 2:44, the singular frequencies appear to be 2-dimensional images. However, the set of 2 combined frequencies at 2:55 appear to be some object rotating in 3 dimensions, and the set of 3 combined frequencies at 3:05 looks like an object rotating in 4 dimensions but represented by a 3-dimensional projection flattened onto 2-dimensional space. Is anyone else seeing this?
I see what you're talking about but any periodic motion of a 3d object can be described as slices of an object rotating in 4-space (people seem to be hell bent on making things higher-dimensional). I'm really curious if a model for these curves could be determined. I just bought a laser pointer and intend to reproduce this experiment. I know a decent amount of math so I hope I can use that to determine a model that I can use to produce arbitrary curves - perhaps pictures. I guess we'll see.
Let us know if you find something
Tim Huff You'd have to model the entire membrane including interference fringes, reflections and boundary effects . Good luck.
Might be tough to model. When he overlayed 2 or 3 notes he introduced harmonics and subtones, essentially making 1+1=3. should still be possible, not not nearly as straightforward. but still very cool
my god you guys are a genius.... amazing.... keep on the good work.. think more ...discover or invent something and do good for the good people of the world.
*It is a Complex Dinamic and Hiperdinamic Cahotic System divise. You can see the attractors and the never repeatable run. Excellent!!*
I assume the multiple breaks in the image weren't caused by the vibrations simply moving the mirror out of the laser's range?
Yes, that's my guess as well.
Good thought, though he did say that the breaks didn't show up with his eyes? Thought that could be persistence of vision tricking him. Also the breaks appear to be near the center of the image whereas my intuition says that effect would show up near the edges? We need to get a slow mo camera pointed at the mirror!
The line breaks he shows are in individual frames of a video capture. The mirror would not be going up and down when shooting video, it'd be permanently up... assuming he's even using a camera with a mirror.
William doesn't mean the camera's mirror but the mirror on the balloon.
Yeah, I thought about that too but I don't see it with my eyes. It's only in the camera. Granted my eyes aren't as fast...
1:43 Sudden eye burst!
9:00 sauce of innovation
puu.sh/CZECr/6128ecc0a9.png
Why just a fragment of mirror though? Couldnt the same effect be done with a larger piece? Or maybe the weight of the increased size would negate some of the effects?
a larger piece of glass would likely inhibit the vibrations from being able to roll the mirror around in all three axis.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone
You could do it with a sheet of Mylar from a balloon or something and skip the mirror altogether.
Mylar might work, I was thinking a curved mirror surface would move the beam more, which might be good. The only problem with mylar would be if it weren't smooth. You could probably get rid if the balloon entirely and use cling wrap or foil.
The observation of multiple start and endpoints during a single frame may be explained by rolling shutter. It takes some time for the camera to read out the entire sensor, and as the laser moves it will be captured by the sensor at different times, making it seems like it has jumped from one place to another one.
My dad invented something similar in the 70s and called it a laserscope. It was in a sealed box with a phosphor coating so that the trail would continue glowing a few milliseconds after the laser activated it.
Binyamin Tsadik please tell me that it was used by psychedelic bands to make amazing light shows during their music. And please tell me that it still exists. That's the kind of stuff that I love. I have a number of homemade special effect lighting units that were used back in the 60s and 70s. That sounds like an amazing invention.
I think my dad threw out his last one a few years ago. He had a contract to make a large one at the CN Tower in Toronto for their dance floor, but it was more expensive than the standard lighting and decoration of the time so it was scrapped.
I think he sold a few to some individuals back then that probably did psychadelics. He told me that he optimized the devices to the "Dark side of the moon" album.
Binyamin Tsadik ... Epic... Sounds like a great guy with some great stories.
Relationships with fathers are never simple, I could put you in touch if you are interested. He's a retired computer programmer of 40 years now.
Binyamin Tsadik, oh I understand that all to well brother. We see the guy no one else does. No need for his info, just sounds like an interesting fella.
It's amazing how many toroids it makes (shapes that move in and out of themselves) considering it's just a tiny part of the side. Fractals I would guess
This was a thing back in the 1970s: hang mirrors in front of speakers and hit 'em with the old HeNe.
one of the best videos iv'e seen on you tube.
wonder where, it was hiding for me (for 6 years).
good job man, amazing.
4:58 "set your camera to 'Manual' " should be "set your camera to 'Auto' "
Jack Zeng no he's right. Set it to manual. If it is auto, the camera will continue to adjust, giving you a bad result.
he prolly knows what he is saying.
The second time he says "set your camera to manual" is correct, the first time he should have said auto
It has to be set to wumbo
@@arielgenesiswhat jack tryed to say is that he should have said that at that point because he said the same thing twice. So jack is right indeed.
Love your take on string theory.
Goddamit, Mould. I held off watching this vid over other recommendations ... coz how much more science can there be really? There was a lot of info in this vid, and you presented it all beautifully as usual. I never have a need to rewind or rewatch your vids because I missed something. Thank you again :)
i could watch sound patterns like this all day
6:46 full screen making my hypnotised
Would be interesting to try with a 4 part harmony choir piece, with all human overtones.
4:57 automatic ?
I guess so. And sorry for replying 7 months later, for a video that came 3 years ago.
No. « when you set your camera to Manual [shutter speed] then it’s going to do all these calculations for you [exposure using fixed shutter speed] »
@Steve Mould
Answer to your question about the loose ends: Cameras read the data produced on the sensor in rows or columns, in very quick succession. I would reckon it still does this at a low shutterspeed, just going over all the rows multiple times, making a sort of 'mean' image of all the scans. This would explain cuts in the continuous shapes. If true, filming analogue would give different results.
Y'all check out Jerobeam Fenderson, he's making shapes and visualizations like those from an oscilloscope. He even made a short movie ("Reconstruct") entirely out of sound.
Nice job with the video!
Thanks for the recommendation enjoyed it
Check out Chris Allen aswell!
4:59 You said manual when you meant automatic
Steve, this is so fascinating! My favorite video of any kind so far in 2022!
I guess nobody is going to acknowledge the "funny pattern" at 2:34?
GAVEbirth2NORIS you mean gamma?😔🤗
I know what you mean brother
what do you mean acknowledge the "funny pattern"?
GAVEbirth2NORIS lmao
Macieks300 He's saying it looks like a dick