SHOP CLASS EP1: why are powerchairs so complicated??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we touch on the basics of power wheelchair control systems, and WHY they've become so complicated, and why its so hard to make programming changes!
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This is amazing! Just the stuff I need/want to know. I am a lady pushing 60 and got my first permobil a few months ago. I’m also the kind of person who wants to know HOW it works and what all the bits do. I feel much more secure in a profoundly deep level knowing what makes my electric steed tick. When I was issued the chair (I live in Sweden) I asked about things like “ where does this wire go?” and the techies said “ don’t worry about it”. Not the answer I was looking for.
Yeah I’m an older lady with absolutely no technical training or experience but I need to know this stuff for my peace of mind. Just the way I roll I guess. Thank you again for this!
I’m a high school teacher and appreciate your pedagogical skills. 🙏🏼💞💖
Im pushing 60 too and the kind of person who wants to know HOW it works living in France. I dont know how I got here ,but I found myself coming back again and again joj
I'm a old fart pushing 60 myself, and just acquired an almost-new Permobil F3 for the bargain price of $400 USD off of the Facebook Marketplace. His videos have helped me locate parts that my new chair needed specifically to fit me, namely the leg supports and actuator mechanism it wasn't originally built with.
I agree the lawyers are why things aren't simpler. It would make great sense that a user could sit in a chair simulator, where they would be provided their specific input interface and instruct the operator of the simulator where and what they want and based upon their body weight and structure physics provides hard stops where programming is limited to override. In robotics it is called manual teaching. With wheel chairs the center of gravity must remain relative to the mass on the chair meaning the chair should move to correct center of gravity incrementally or stop moving and reverse when radar indicates it is clear to do so. Very complicated. The folks the make fighter jet simulators could possibly get interested in changing the power wheel chair design. You videos are really well done, keep them coming. The more people who get to see the problems they haven't been aware of, they may be able to help, in some small way, to make life a bit better.
I just found and subscribed to your channel. I've worked on servicing and repairs of all sorts on the van conversions for 10 years now, I'm now trying my hand at power chair repairs / restorations and trying to donate the chairs I fix up to folks who can't afford them. Your videos are very inspiring and full of knowledge. Thanks!!
You're doing the Lord's work, man!
I like the name wheelchair “shop class!”
thank you, very good info,
i used power chair and my main problem is the limit of the power for my chair, i need some thing make my chair very fast charging ( 5 -15 minutes for full charge maximum ), or somehow keep it moving all the day without fear from stop in the middle of the street. and this is my dream.
You should become a designer/manufacturer.
ooooooooo love the whiteboard lol and Im pushing 60 too and the kind of person who wants to know HOW it works
“Witchcraft” explained 👍👍
Thanks for such a great overview! I work with Permobil C2k and C500 and have watched the evolution of the control systems.
The Quickie you have in the video is called a Salsa M in the UK, I bought one just yesterday on eBay for £100 - for spare parts.
Thanks for this vid...your a great man. I'm fixing with a small team wheelchairs for people in my city.. this is very helpfull to us..
Wait till the day Android or IOS will control chairs Android because its more open and you see alot of things with Android
Thanks!! I just got my first rehab chair just a few months ago and it is so different. Your videos are fantastic..
RESPECTFULLY,
Thanks MR. Wizzard !!!
I can't wait to hear more in the next SHOP CLASS !
Time to change the name from "Totally Normal" to "Totally Awesome"
:-)
I loved this!! Best one yet because it answered a LOT of my questions about my Magic Mobility Frontier V6, and powered wheelchairs in general. I'm a retired Senior Systems Administrator with over 20 years in IT so your explanation made a lot of sense. As I was watching I was pondering how to simplify the complex mess of wires. I'm wondering if all this could be done with a PLC better than the current proprietary hw/sw. And why the multiple control boxes? Why not put it all in one master box? Anyway yeah something new is needed for sure.
I wonder this too, and why use PoE instead of straight power connections or stereo connections?
I fortunately have a wire resistance speed control on my Toro caddy Master motor on my front wheel drive chair homemade
It'll become more like distributed computer systems. Each actuator will have required sensors built in and maybe we'll see chairs leverage ethernet (copper or fiber). I really hope That they don't try calling it AI.
Great video! I love your educational videos.
Oh... I'll be back, (after dinner) excited for these, thanks for putting these together
good idea.. i should get FOOD as well! lol
Great video. Your really good at explaining the processes
I know what you mean about keeping it simple. I have a Joey lift in my van to transport my power chair that continually breaks, usually a micro switch that you would not think was related to the problem. The operation is real simple you have one motor that moves the chair in and out of the van and another that raises and lowers the lift once it is outside the van. I have spent way too much money having it repaired. Yes the control system makes it almost idiot proof when it works. But the normal person operating the lift would know when to quit pressing a switch to move it out of the van and when to quit pressing the switch once it is on the ground (which you have to do now or it will start raising the back of the van).
The last time that I had problems with it I had figured out that I could make a control box with two double pole double throw switches. One for in and out and the other for up and down. Figure it would cost less than $50.00, which is less than half the price of a service call. But since I had it working I haven't done that.
Great video dan 👍
thank you
Permobil still has that mechanical function for the leg rest they also have an option for power extension too, but stock its still that mechanical function
Great video.. Have anyone ever thought of just Starting out from scratch and program as a computer on a board...
Q: "Why do you have so many wheelchairs?" A: "For use in my social media endeavors." (Now STFU!) For at least the first 10 years of my power WC use the brake system was simple: Pull back on my joystick and pray.
Thxs For the Video very educational
Thank you for these videos!
We are looking forward to the Shop Class Series!
Great Job! i Know The Parts And Names But Not The Tech Break Down.Look Forward For Next Class
Where you talking about the new Permobil M series 2021 models?
Turns out they still use the mechanical leg rests on the newer chairs - but the power assist ones are an option on some models. And the “new” chairs are still going to be using the same control system - they just updated the looks on the new ones and also are using some newer types of batteries etc. nothing too major :-)
Dan, this video is awesome! Thanks for the heads up on the possible new control system for permobil. I am trying out new chairs with my vendor on Friday. I have an F5 now but I have a huge head and I am apparently tall for somebody in a wheelchair and the headrest never fits right. He’s trying to push V6 By magic Mobility but I know you had bad luck with them so I’m skeptical! I also The updated 2019 Changes with the F5. He’s trying to get me to try a couple Invacare and quickie models as well but are used to beat the crap out of those as a kid and although I am not is stupid in terms of just going anywhere and everywhere A full bar I still am really hard on my every day chair. Do you or anybody else here have any other suggestions? Thanks for all your knowledge and everything you do. I enjoy every video.
the V6 chair are pretty good - mines the Version 1 - and i was mostly having "customer service issues" but they're still a well built chair :^) I'd like to check out their front wheel drive hybrid chair.. but there arent really any distributors for them near portland anymore :^/
I’ll follow up with you after I try things out.
i don't know who to ask or to propose this to . but since let's say permobil since I have that , why don't they have a fee to tinker settings ? like pay $100 and for one year that obligates you to adjust speed , seating , and drive control function once per month . since permobil has addons with a price just add this .
X smurf X Back before the "Black Plague" Permobil would display their chairs at the Abilities Expo. They also had a tech booth where they would provide free limited adjustment to customers chairs. I often attended the Los Angeles Abilities Expos for many years, and the Permobil techs would fine tune my chair's programming. Eventually, I got my own programming dongle, and started programming my own chairs. Some things can be programmed through the ICS, without needing a dongle, using instructions found in the ICS manual, which can be found on the internet.
I have a Quantum Edge 3, basic, not tilt, etc. Barely turns, too slow. I'd trade for my old Quantum 600 any day
Could I ripp the whole permobile C500 system out, and still use all motors? Or will the motors be like "error-where is my R-net?". Another thing: I was looking at a chin control to add on the C500 (joystick, wires, some electronics, NO motor arm), guess what: €1500,- WTF I think €75,- would be normal, €150,- for super quality. Why €1500,-?!
are ya talking about the drive motors, or the actuators?
@@TotallyNormal- Both drive motors and actuators. If I can not use the system/software because it is unaccessible, I can maybe put another OS in it, or make an Arduino system myself. I do hope I can still use the drive motors and actuators, otherwise the whole chair can go to the trash 😫 Sometimes I just hate safety.
the drive motors for the chair can be run with any motor controller pretty much - they dont have any logic or software in them. SOME of the seat actuators can be repurposed.. ive taken out the sensors and electronics before.. but usually easier to find a seating actuator from another chair or something.
Seeing this, I’m kinda on the fence with the M5 Corpus VS
the good thing is - permobil has excellent customer service! id still take any 5 series chair in a heartbeat!
Totally Normal Thank you! It’s hopefully going to be my first power chair. Thank you for doing what you do. New to the channel and gratefulTo learn about power chairs and what I can do in case my DME company is closed when/if I need help.
GRAB IT and don't look back !!!
I like the fact that you were addressing how complicated the system's are but you are not factoring in the fact that selling wheelchairs is a business and the first order of business seems in this Century to be protecting yourself from lawsuits. The reason that controls are restrictive is because they're shielding themselves from lawsuits. You're not allowed to undo the chair you're not allowed to repurpose or retask the chair because they fear a lawsuit, someone gets a limb pinched off finger cut off a leg broken an arm or neck broken things will be very very very bad and very very very different from then on so they are shielding themselves and by shielding themselves they're also stopping you from changing any of the parameters of the chair please watch find and assimilate the videos from a guy in England named hamburger he'll show you that you could not only design your own chair build your own chair he does it in his back bedroom but he's also programs his own chair by choosing what he wants to stick on his chair and building it to spec.
i actually go into quite a bit of detail about the lawsuit problems in the last half of the video..
have you seen the new Segway S-Pod?
Is that a transition to something better ? lol
its an odd looking thing for sure! but some of segways other stuff still peaks my interest! like the loomo robot - imagine a robotic shopping basket that follows you around!!
Hey I’m first for once! I know that nobody cares at all, but one question. What do I win? 🤣🤣🤣
you win the satisfaction of being AWESOME!! lol
Totally Normal sounds good to me, i'll take it!👍
@@JordanLoweElevaToursCanada yay Jordan! 🍁♿😂