This comment is directed at those who think shift lenses are obsolete. Yes, you can use a non shift lens and crop and correct in post. However that may mean moving back to allow more room for correction for post corrections. However that is also going to change you perspective and possibly negatively affect your composition. No, shift lens are NOT obsolete. The are very much relevant today as they were when they first came out. There is also a major difference in stitching a wide FOV image from a TS lens vs. a UWA lens on a nodal point. Straight lines from a stitched image around a nodal point will appear curved while a shifted lens will stay straight. Stitching is actually better and more effective from a longer focal length on a nodal point.
It’s just a question of budget really. As it is in most cases. If you have the budget for one, and you can justify it, then you should get one. All I know is this lens was a lifesaver for me after I bought it. Before that I’d been fudging around with a 14 mm wide angle lens and in tight spaces stitching panoramas together was a right palaver. This lens literally reduced my panorama post processing time by a factor of four. And panoramas were a major aspect of the work I had to do. Moreover, the distortion free consistency corner to corner of images that I’d stitch together without having to use photoshop’s algorithms were markedly better than the competition and allowed me to oust two other photographers that are vying for the contract. I got my money’s worth from this lens, would have made more if Corona hadn’t killed my career, tho.
Unless I'm missing something, I believe the first half of your comment is incorrect and misses the key point from the video. An equivalent FOV UWA lens to the total FOV available from a shift lens will yield the exact same *composition potential and perspective* (there should be no cause to step back as suggested). The only practical difference that could affect this should be the distortion characteristics of the individual lenses (in which case the shift lens might be better optimised given the architecture priority and likely comparing a prime against a zoom). If you're using film or are *limited* by sensor resolution then the shift lens comes into its own, but with a *surplus of resolution* in the camera and lens then you should be free to crop with no consequence to the *final output*. The second half of your comment was interesting and informative, thank you.
^^^ distortion-free corners would definitely be a substantial advantage of one of these lenses (albeit not an inherent quality of a TS lens but rather an optimisation that goes hand in hand with this purpose in the design brief)
I partially disagree. These are my reasons why I think TS lenses are better than regular ones: 1. When adding people in the foreground with a tall building in the background, then, the keystone correction on post could do a harm to people’s faces or bodies , especially at the corner of the image. 2. TS lenses have wider circle of image so, it will be better than regular ones at corners , especially wide open. 3. TS can be used to take a 3 shots panorama by shifting the lens up/down or left/right, without parallax. 4. TS has the ability to change the focal plane and extend depth of field so, it can be better than focus stack on situations when moving subjects are in front of (people, water, waterfalls, sun or moon at the horizon, etc) 5. TS has the ability to create the miniature effect that it is much natural and better than done later on post. 6. Last but not least, as a landscape shooter, I find more convenient to mount my TS lenses on my tripod at 90 degrees and then, decide the composition by shifting up/down the lens without any distortion. It is true that regular pictures can be corrected later on post but this is done by losing pixels, which means that you lose information at the whole corners of the images, so, unless you take into account this drawback way before taking the shot and leave enough space, you might end up losing part of a building or wall if the correction affects those parts.
I agree with most of your arguments. I also stopped 'shift' vertically and simply use software to correct the perspective. But one aspect cannot be simply ignored: The tilt operation delivering unlimited depth of field (a.k.a. Scheimpflug principle). Last but not least: Shift horizontally to avoid your own reflection in a window glass or a mirror.
@@pleatedskirt18 To a degree, I do not care, if I visually do not see the difference. I am aware of the degradation. It is obvious, and I am aware that demanding professionals will always need a shift/tilt lens. They are by the way fun to use. A classic Toy for a grown Boy.
Even though I agree with all the points you made, there is one very important aspect of TS lense you haven't mention, which definitely can NOT be simulated/achieved by postprocessing - it is changing angle (tilt) of *focal plane* while preseving camera filed of view. Effect of this aspect will become very apparent, when using shallow depth of view (small apperture values). ==> One picture better then thousand words - to demonstrate what I mean, please search for the _"Tilt-shift lenses get sushi moving in short film"_ phrase on some search engine (I'm not allowed to post links here). The article is about making the short movie (yes movie) using Canon TS lenses. Besides photos, you will find the movie there as well.
The main argument for TS lenses is in-camera composition. You can see your final composition without having to imagine the correction or guess at the amount of up or down pitch you need to achieve the composition you want. I actually use this method everyday for RE work, where I prefer to work with a wide zoom lens. But, on projects where I have time, I prefer working with TS lenses.
Absolutely agree with your debunking the myths. There is one situation where I found the 17mm TSE on a GRX 50S was the only solution however. Wanted to get a shot of an office building from across the street. I had to put camera on tripod between two sign posts at curb. So, only two parking lanes and two traffic lanes of distance between camera and sidewalk in front of building. By using shift in both vertical and horizontal directions I was able to get the entire building with some breathing room around the edges. So, glad they are in my kit. I routinely do something similar with 20mm Laowa Shift lens now when shooting lux real estate. Makes it a snap to combine the two frames into a square with more floor and ceiling features included without having to include lots of dead space on the sides of the frame. Yes I could shoot with 14mm and crop but this approach lets me shoot a job without having to do lots of lens swapping.
Agree, agree, and for the third point half yes/half nope. Tilting the focal plane cannot (I said it) be reproduced in post or with a regular lens. But if you don’t need to do that, or if you don’t need to get that “bathroom mirror shot,” then you don’t need a tilt shift. And if you care about this as much as you suggest, you will read comments.
As a tilt-shift 24mm user - agree with most of what you've said. The only I issue I had before buying TS and using a regular 16mm was when shooting taller buildings, I would sometimes fail to get the perfect angle so that the corrected verticals wouldn't cut off too much of the sky or any other objects around the corners. Other than that TS just make the work faster and of course makes it more satisfying to lock on the composition while on location. Yet I think the biggest value from TS is that it really affects your compositions on the spot, yes of course you can get the same result by using 16mm and cropping but I don't think many photographers shoot with cropping in mind, they'd rather step back, zoom in if possible (like with those 16-35mm). I can really tell the specific ''style'' that heavy TS users do. So it's a creative tool as well, for me at least.
Stiching panorama with 16-35 solves all issues. You will get even wider fied of view and higher resolution than TS lens. PTGui stiches perfectly event handled shots outdoors. (for interiour nodal plate and tripod will be required due to closer distances)
@@VolodymyrTorkalonot that easy if your a shooting, for say, a vase with thin branches in it or an inside/out with thin curtains moving in the wind. If so I would stay clear of any stitching. And considering the price, weight and cumbersome of a precise nodal head, which by the way works only with primes, you might as well get a TS
I use a 17mm exclusively with an EOS R for real estate. This is coming from an a6500 and 9mm Laowa (13mm FF equivalent). I have had instances where I had zero flexibility with composition and the TS saved the day. I spend less time cropping a bunch of images from an ultra wide lens or zooming to find the right composition. The more you use the lens the more familiar you become with using it. Camera height affects camera composition a lot less than shifting a lens. For exteriors I typically shift up and crop down. It does give you more control on what part of the lens you use. It's not necessary to start, but I haven't regretted getting and using the lens exclusively. TS lens are also useful for video where cropping and correcting perspective is less forgiving.
Thats very true, i've bought my TS-E lenses mostly to shorten editing time (absolutely hated composing images with 17mm and then straighten). With 45 or 90 there's also the space for swing when you need to photograph some products. They are very handy but for most part, what you need is a vision.
OMG! This question had been bothering me for the last month, and a TS was in my cart! You just saved me money and push me forward to change my mind about lenses. I just watched your video about your gear and looked to laowa 20 mm. So, what lens do you suggest as the best for Sony?
If you're looking to eventually get a shift lens...yeah I would suggest the Laowa 20mm. WAYYY cheaper than getting the Canon 24mm with a Sony adapter. But in reality - I use my Sigma 24-70 for about 75% of the shots I take
Hi, Matthew. I'm a Brazilian photographer and I have been working for some years now, but only recently I started to work in the architecture field and your videos have been helping me a lot. Thanks for sharing your experience!
You’ve just saved me a fortune … THANK YOU!!! I came across your video when researching about purchasing and adapting a Canon TS lens onto a Sony camera. Now I don’t have to (and won’t) do either! GREAT video!
Great Video and liked it. I'm only an amature photographer, but love using TS lenses for landscape photography to obtain that apparent infinite depth of field. You're quite right about being able to obtain the same field of view with a wide angle lens vs shifting a longer TS lens. I have a voightlander 10mm rectlinear lens and the canon 17mm TS. If I shift the 17mm TS left and right to the max and stich together, then I get the same field of view with the 10mm lens. The difference is the final resolution and only going to be noticeable if printed.. As a landscape photographer I probably use the tilt more than I do the shift, and with the exception of the minature affect. using the tilt cannot be emulated by standard lenses or corrected in post.
I prefer a tilt shift to a regular lens, at least for product photography. A regular lens can't achieve a certain focus without tilt. Focus-stacking can help, but sometimes it's a pain. Otherwise, for shifting with a non tilt-shift lens, I use a tripod center column to shift up. It doesn't always do the trick, but sometimes it does.
Resort & hotel photographer. I used 17 and 24 mm tsr ! Just because i can be more precise on my framing especially when on hotel rooms you have to show full bed and tv ! With normal lens you have to guess how will be the framing when making pics straight on post . When I started working on this industry I shoot with normal lens and it was fine ! Now I have more budget so TSR lenses are just more comfortable for me . For the rest I totally agreed with Matthew
But if you DO want tilt-shift lenses, but not pay the price Canon or Nikon asks, you can get some completely manual lenses for several mounts from Arax. I got their 28mm with the Pentax K-mount and have used it with the Pentax K-5 earlier, and now the Samsung NX1 for photography and video, and it's great fun and handy.
In some cases, correcting distrortion with a TS lens is actually even more complicated and time consuming. I regularly use the Rokinon 24mm TS lens, and it has quite a bit of distortion. Since it's 100% manual, I can't 1-click correct like with other modern lenses, AND since it's shifted the distortion isn't even centered. I have to note down the shift amount while shooting, manually calculate the distortion displacement, use that number to extend the canvas in Photoshop, and THEN apply the manual correction.
I have a 45 and a 24 t/s and what I usually use the for is to make an extra wide distortions free panorama. Most often a 1-3 frames where I shift left or right. Sometimes swinging the lens for focusing purposes (swing is the horizontal version of tilt)
I use small format (micro 4/3, APC-C, 35mm) cameras when I do not need tilt/shift features for architecture. I use medium format cameras (6x6, 6x7, 6x9, or 6x12) when I do not need tilt/shift features for architecture.. When I need tilt/shift features for architecture, I use a 4x5 inch monorail view camera with front and back tilt/shift features. When I only need shift features for architecture, I can use a small format perspective control lens that only has a shift feature.
Read a comparison some time ago between a modern wide angle lens and an older tilt shift. The wide angle won the resolution competition. After the distortion correction.
I rarely use tilt, occasionally use it to get more in focus ( rather than the youtube approach of getting more out of focus). However I use shift all the time for loads of things and find it very useful and much better than doing in post. Doing in post can bring up all sorts of problems.
I fell into architectural photography a number of years ago. I'm a hobby photographer who gets asked to do pro work. I mostly do interior shots, and basically get by with a wide angle lens and software. No one asks what lens that I'm using. No one asks how many MP my camera has. No one even asks what camera I use. However, I do get grateful comments on the finished product. I'm not knocking tilt-shift lenses, but all too often people assume it is the equipment when it really is a little knowledge and a good eye. The majority of the "pro" work that I do is now architectural photography. I used a Canon 5DIV and the lens I use isn't even a "L" lens.
My arguments for tilt shift is that it is giving a direct preview of the final composition which is difficult to pre visualise (at least for me) and that the keystone corrections do change the aspect ration and it is very hard to reproduce the actual high to width of a building.
@Matthew Anderson, you're my new favorite in this space. I'm like 80% convinced I don't need this lens but... a challenge. Let's see an interior, likely kitchen shot (one of those kitchens with the hanging orb lights over the island, edison bulb in glass sphere, mid-century diner feel -take your pick) but the shot calls for one of those hanging lights at edge of frame... how do you keep the light from looking like an egg, a space ship... a torpedo? Has an architect or builder ever told you, "that looks great but those lights are globes not ovals." Is the answer just shoot wider and crop in, or would a shift lens actually resolve this? AND... without a shift lens, is there like a secret handshake I need to learn to gain the knowledge of fixing this in post? Thanks for all you do and if you have any sway, nudge Mike for an APA black friday sale 😉
Couldn't care less about resolution or looking professional... what I do care about when shooting, is making sure my composition is more or less perfect when taking the shot. Something I just can not do without a TS lens in most of my cases. For me, it's just ease of mind to know how the composition will be before heading home into development.
I’m considering selling my barely used TS-17. Absolutely a great fixed lens. I’m primarily RE and although I can take shots quickly, it’s still a little slower and for my needs, slower and less creative than a zoom. There have been a few shots that I couldn’t replicate on any other lens, most I could easily get by using my EF-11-24 then re crop in post.
5:42 Wrong. It is a 24mm lens. The focal length is a physical property of the lens. Two 24mm lenses, each rendering a different size image circle are still each 24mm lenses with the same characteristics of a 24mm. 24mm is 24mm regardless of the format (e.g., the size of the image circle). There is no such thing as equivalence of focal lengths based on size of image circle and hence field of view. This is quite an important technical aspect of understanding photography. Another aspect of tilt-shift lenses you completely ignore is tilt. Yes, you are 100% correct that it is very easy to compensate for shift by perspective correction through keystone compensation in software with a single image at the expense of resolution and sharpness. But it is very difficult and time consuming to compensate for not having tilt when you are using it to manipulate the focus plane. You would have to work with focus stacking and that would still not give you the exact same result, drastically increasing the time needed to get the shot(s) AND adding time and effort to creating the focus stacked shot. With tilt, it is one shot in camera with no post processing needed for that aspect of the shot. I think if architecture is an occasional use case for someone, they won't need a TS lens. But if architecture is something you do exclusively, you'd be dumb not to get a TS lens as that makes your life so much easier. It is a must investment then.
Thank you for making this video, I'm new to tilt shift, I thought to get one or F0.95, now I know it's just a wider len's with in camera crop, thanks again!
This was a super helpful video! as a beginner trying to decide if it's a necessary investment early on, this helped me gain a better understanding of what a tilt shift lens actually provides. the explanation about it being 'in camera cropping' made it click for me in a way i hadn't understood yet. Great content! i'm gonna see what i can achieve without one first, do a little gear research in the meantime, and wait until i naturally arrive at a point of desiring one while shooting before buying one. thanks !
Now that I understand how a title/shift lens has a significantly larger image circle, the pricing seems ENTIRELY reasonable! Thanks for this presentation - very useful indeed.
That’s the way I think, when I shoot I don’t even think will be only small size image. I think will be print big. Tilt Shift lens is amazing. I have two Canon and Two Fujifilm. Forget to fix after if you can do straight out of the camera. Please don’t get me wrong.
Hardly ever pull out my TS anymore. Too much CA and I just enjoy using zooms so much more. I don't feel like shifting is appropriate for interior architectural, especially normal ceiling height.
With my Canon R5 and the 11-24 I need to carry only this monster. Yes, a TS lense is the “old” and technically best way to get the technical correct picture and with a correction in Lightroom you can correct this without having deeper understanding. So the expert uses a TS but the “lazy” one does it in post. So no one is right or wrong. Thanks for your video!❤
The biggest argument FOR a tilt shift is that you are seeing exactly what you're going to get while taking the photograph. A point that's very important. It's also the biggest benefit of shooting digital, you can see what you've actually shot. And every professional camera slinger photo or video, does everything they can to get it in-camera, and uses post only to do to the image that which couldn't be made to happen while taking the photo. I've never owned a tilt lens, and shoot architectural. And despite many years of shooting, it still happens more that I'd like to admit that I think I've framed the wide angle photo correctly for correcting the geometry in post, just to find out that I've clipped off a portion of the structure by not going wide enough. Now, if I were using a tilt lens, I'd have seen that while out in the field and could have taken measures to prevent it. Waiting until post to find out means I'm going back for a reshoot.
Well, a TS use depends on client and situation. No hard and fast rule. I would always have a TS in my kit. I would use more often on commercial interior jobs (hospitality / resort and furniture companies). I'd use the shift function way more than the tilt. But in the end depending on how far back I could go on set I'd often just use a fixed 50mm or fixed 35mm Zeiss.
Awesome video dude. But like you mentioned at the last point, they are a professional asset that improve and help you create images in Camera that don’t need extra cropping :) Love my 20 and 50mm shifts but also love my 14-35. I can get professional results with both, but I much prefer the in camera experience of using my shift lens overall when composing, especially for architecture, but that’s just me 🎉
In my experience you don't need them but they sure make my compositions easier to get right in camera. My architectural/design photography is shot 85% w/ my Canon 24 TS ( adding the 1.4 extender occasionally ). Prior to that I used to use my Canon 16-35 for the same perspectives and do post corrections ( I still use it when wide is needed ) but even though the TS slows you down in the pre-shooting process, I still prefer it to any lens in my kit for that type of work. Like you said Matt, you can get away with less but as you progress most photogs always look for the better kit...Another analogy...I used to drive a beater in high school and college to get around. Now I drive a something MUCH nicer. Thanks again for another great video.
I agree with you. When you leave the location, you know what you have and if cropping in post is fine to fix distortions, having to go back because misjudging what was captured with a standard lens and framing too tight would not be a plus. Instead, If I was doing architecture and I had a 24TS, I would have the opportunity fine tune the file somehow in post if felt it was needed.
Totally true, in fact quality might be lower with extreme movements or slight off focus, and distortion bigger with no easy correction, except: TS=Wysiwyg. No more surprise when straitening the image, no more "Damn I miss a bit". And precise spacing to the frame borders. The other solution is to shoot tethered to a computer and do the corrections on the fly, easy indoor, not so much in the middle of a street. Much cheaper though...
In the wake of lightroom's super resolution enhance feature, the cropping and losing pixels argument goes completely out the window. I'll still keep my 24mm tse, but I'm honestly planning on compacting my lens selection to just RF 14-35 F4 and 24-105 F4. I noticed I often spend a lot of time faffing about changing tilt shift lenses to find the right composition just to find out 24mm is too wide and 1.4x extender makes it too tight.
I always wondered about this - the faffing - it could be never ending - I wonder how many photographers using TS still have to adjust for distortion and lens aberrations post shooting.
I love my tilt shifts but my 50mm doesn't get a lot of use-the longer the focal length, the less you need to shift. But damn, it's the sharpest lens I own and I've got some very nice zooms! Really looking forward to seeing what a more modern tilt shift looks like for the mirrorless age... my 24mm is showing it's age for sure.
I have a friend who shoots a ton of interiors, design, arch, is looked up to by many other photographers, and gets hired by many. He barely uses his tilt-shifts these days. This is mostly due to the fact he's using the GFX system which has a 4:3 aspect ratio (aka more image height than a full-frame camera), and has plenty of resolution to crop. Most shoots he gets by with a lens with a FOV equivalent to a 25-50mm lens for like 70-80% of the shots. The other thing you can do if you're worried about your clients not being able to see something closer to your final shot is tether to a laptop and bang out a quick edit with image transforms. Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I should just stick with my 15-35 for real estate and not bother with changing lenses... 🤔
Finally got a tilt shift lens in order to see how they work. I like it, but it is not the end all lens for everything. I also understand your side of the argument since I have using Adobe product since 2002. Back then I was using film and scanning images in from negitives to use PhotoShop, a tilt shift lens would have been great to use since PhotoShop 5 and 6 was primitive back then compared to today's product.. Lightroom did not exist until later after PhotoShop 7 which had Image Ready and the first filter library. I don't think tilt shifts are obsolete especially when you do fine art prints that are way over 30 x 40 inches and usually measured in feet. For most work that is done today PhotoShop and Lightroom can handle most of it since most of it is digital media.
I agree Matthew. I don't own a tilt-shift and my business will be 10 years old this September. However, I often have light fixtures hanging at a slightly odd angle. I'm sure you know what I mean. That is the only reason I am tempted to buy a tilt-shift! Crazy I know. I really want everything straight, darn it. But it seems to be accepted by many of my clients. They know about some distortion or they really don't notice it. But I am not losing any sleep over crooked lights so I probably won't be buying one any time soon. I really like spending any extra mula on education personally at this point in my career. Thanks for saying it out loud! :)
Not having to crop out massive amounts of foreground or, in the case of interiors, being able to shift the lens so as not to have too much ceiling make the price of a shift lens more than justified. That's not to mention the ease of creating a super wide image by shifting and stitching which can create a final image far wider than most usable wide angle lenses. It's true that you can 'get by' without a tilt/shift lens but in the long run the benefits of having the option are quite clear. I don't see this as some sort of societal problem and I've never heard of any photographer getting 'put down' for not having a shift lens so the argument is rather beside the point.
Oh I've seen PLENTY of condescending comments from seasoned photographers directed toward rookies (or other photographers in general) alluding that they can't get true "professional" photos w/o a TS lens. This video's mere existence has seemed to bring a few of them out of the woodwork (and not just on TH-cam) 🤣
At first it made sense but on reflection I don’t agree. As a compositional aid it is essential. Agree fully with Mike Kelly who recently commented on Instagram. If you want to perform at a high level they are important
I don't think they're super necessary for most stuff. I mostly enjoy using one (always rented, because no reason to spend the money on having one all the time) when I want to shoot from greater height without showing too much ceiling, or composing a straight shot I wouldn't be able to get by being able to shift to the right or left. Not necessary most of the time but I enjoy renting TS lenses on occasion for particular projects.
A tilt/shift lens is nothing more that another tool in the arsenal of the camera bag, it does a specific job, just like any lens be it wide angle, standard, telephoto in prime single focal length or zoom. You can shoot architecture or landscape with a Box Brownie and the ultimate image will be down to your creativity. in the scheme of things a tilt/shift lens is no more special than any other lens but it is very useful for a specific job. I note that all the examples shown are interior shots, where a tilt/shift has only a marginal, if any. the biggest advantages and differences come when you are shooting externally.
If fewer than half the pro photographers could pick the tilt/shift photo, then pictures I take with a 10-20mm zoom on an APS-C camera will be plenty good enough to display around my house.
so for over $1000 i can buy a laowa shift lens with no electronics or auto focus for my sony -- just a chunk of dead glass with a slider thing. i hope i don't move the aperture ring by mistake. no way to see that on an lcd! and then i get to slide around an image to find a nice composition. how to turn a one hour shoot into a 3 hour shoot. OR just use my 16-35mm SONY with AF and all the electronics and go wide and crop in post. with 61 megapixels i have plenty of rez. tilt shift? no thx!!
Finally someone was dare to say out loud and debunk the myth. Congrats Andrew 👏👏👏👏 well done. IMHO a TS lens is an option not a must have. Depending on the skill level you have it may or may not help capturing the final image you desire. Everything happens in your brain first. A dull knife is still a deadly weapon in the right hands. 😉
shoot... and here I thought I'd have to stich shots together with my 15mm wideangle lense to get out cascading lines and here you are... showing me a stitched-together-version of a tilt-shift vs a single shot with the wideangle lense, corrected in post. thanks for all these informations in the video. thought I spare me some work with a 17mm-tilt-shift-lense regarding post production, but maybe I'm just fine with the 15mm :) like your humor too - "hit the thumbs down twice for the emphasis" hahahahha
Firstly - I want that lens cap (dropped a few lenses have we?) Secondly - please share your two second (er 1second) distortion script probably worth more than you realise and does it run on Windows 11? In all SERIOUSNESS great video and gives a non TS owner some comfort. I have some very tilted shots of structures up close and use DxO PL EL 6 with Viewpoint linked in to adjust - works amazingly well - just have to remember to zoom out a bit more to give space for cropping. Great stuff Matthew - “subscribed”👍
I've been considering trading my GM 16-35 in for a GM 14mm to get those wide angle shots that need that extra coverage a tilt-shift provides. I already came to similar conclusions to the ones you pointed out in this video. My GM II 24-70 stays on the camera for pretty much everything else on my interior design & architecture shoots.
OK, you lost at the part where you said a 24mm TS lens is not actually 24mm. The focal length of the lens is absolutely 24mm, just that the image circle is bigger or smaller depending on the design of the lens. You don't have to lie to make a point.
Gonna tell you. I have been using iPhone since the 12 pro max, and my clients not even know the difference. Some times the phone can get to tighter places.
On top of the point n°2: showing the client an almost perfect shot just out of the camera will make them feel that the price you ask is too high for such a small amount of work...
I shoot RE and Portraits mainly and have a 14-24 sigma art and a 24-105 canon l with a bunch of non L series primes I use for everything under the sun. This was helpful because I've always wanted a TS for the composition aspect. I feel like it being framed as you explained, would help me focus on that area better than my sigma would if that makes sense. I think a lot about this. No
Biggest argument is composition and composition is a fundamental aspect of almost any kind of creative work. I mean sure you can go without a tilt-shift lens where you won't need one but then how far can you push that argument. I mean do you even need a "professional" camera cause smartphones are good enough right? Do you even need to shoot RAW because JPEGs are good enough. I mean no one is going to be viewing your content in raw so why even mess with that step? Why even bother to shoot in full resolution I mean a small JPEG is enough because let's be honest a 2mp file can be used to print a whole billboard. This notion of you don't need x because y is good enough is generally foolish especially if you're a creative that is genuinely going to be taking pride in the kind of content you produce. Don't be a cheap photographer and have such low expectations. Take pride in the kind of work you produce with the best equipment you can reasonably afford.
I think you missed the point. Your pro camera and JPEG parallels are redundant to the tripod analogy he already mentions in the video. Do you NEED any of this stuff? Not necessarily, but they do provide some professional conveniences. Unfortunately there's way too many pompous photographers online throwing their opinions around on this stuff as unquestionable gospel. The irony is, it sounds like you didn’t watch the entire video and catch the “easter egg” at the very end X-D
@@chasehenderson2250 I appreciate the comment my friend but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Positive comment or negative...it helps out my engagement numbers either way 🤣🤣🤣
@@chasehenderson2250 about the comment section, yeah I caught that. But we’re discussing ideas here not each other. I didn’t mention anything negative about Matthew. Discussing any idea is fair game. This whole concept is a little cringeworthy, it’s essentially a race to the bottom.
@@Sondercreative I’m struggling to see what the “concept” is exactly that you find cringeworthy? Are you saying that in order to be considered a genuine pro photographer in this genre, that you must posses and use TS lenses? One of the best architectural shots I’ve ever taken was on a Canon T2i. But is that not considered “pro” because it wasn’t shot on a pro camera?
I think people have a bad understanding of perspective to begin with. Your perspective is determined only by your point in space and what direction your line of sight is. Lens choice will simply crop and magnify, and distort. This doesn’t change the perspective. This can’t change the perspective. You can only have the same perspective exactly where you already are.
You’re taking crap. TS lenses are also called perspective control lenses, and used correctly they can alter the relative size of foreground and background elements. Also, aligning verticals in-camera ensures the composition is as intended, with no elements cropped from the frame after correcting in post.
The biggest difference is that a TS lens allows you to choose from a larger circle in front of your sensor. Using a conventional lens means you compromise on composition and then crop from the image you captured. It is especially usefully with Kitchens. Ever composed a kitchen and tried to get the island and stove top to look just right, but where the camera is leaves not enough image on left or right? Then when you move the camera, the vanishing point gets screwed up? So you try wider lens but find the foreground distortion is screwing up the shot all together? With a TS lens, you get your vanishing point set and shift the lens to give you the rest of the subject you want. It's ok not have a TS lens right away, or ever. Especially in Real Estate, because agents don't pay enough to warrant anything that special anyway. But don't be fooled. They are powerful tools! And worth every penny!
The only difference between a TS lens and a conventional wide angle lens (when it comes to shifting) is that the TS lens allows you to choose your crop "in camera" instead of cropping later in post. That's it. Otherwise there is no difference. There is no kitchen shot that you capture with a TS lens that I can't capture with a conventional lens.
@TheGearWillNotSaveYou I'm afraid that's not it. There is a significant difference in what is going on between using a TS or equivalent fixed lens. And an even bigger difference between a TS lens and a wider fixed lens. If you find a good spot with your focal length, but you want more/less above, below, left, or right, you will skew the perspective if you move the camera in any of those directions to compensate. With a TS lens, you can optimally achieve your desired frame w/o screwing up the perspective..... Or you can try standing back with a wider lens and crop out the amount of image you don't need. Whoever, with a wider focal length, you will get an increased level of distortion. It will become more apparent the closer you have to be to the subject. I have worked years without TS lenses and now with them. Believe me, there is a difference. Do you need them though? If you charge in the 4 figures or more range for your work..... It would be a great investment. If you shoot real estate. Absolutely no need...... at all!
There is no practical optical difference. A TS lens is just a regular rectilinear lens inside a special housing. If you find a good spot with your 24mm TS lens and shift it to get the composition/field of view you want, I can stand in the same spot with my 14mm lens and then crop in post to get the same composition/field of view as your shot. We could superimpose the images on top of one another and they would be identical for all practical viewing purposes (tiny difference due to parallax issues, different resolutions due to cropping). As long as we're standing in the same spot the "distortion" would be the same.
@TheGearWillNotSaveYou LOL, Yeah right! A 24mm and 14mm shot from the same spot, layered together, will NOT match up identical. And the distortion would be noticeable. Even if you went through the whole method of composition and cropping, it just isn't the same. Colse, but not quite there.
If only there was a way to test my ridiculous assertion ;-)....Now we're kind of getting down to one of the "bottom line" basic principles of photography - and really a core concept in my opinion when it comes to creating great architecture/interior images. That is: The focal length/field of view of your lens has NOTHING to do with the "perspective distortion" or "compression" in your image. Distortion and compression has to do with the distance between your camera and the subject. That's it. You can swap lenses, zoom in and out, and shift as much as you want but none of that will change the core composition, the distortion, or the relationship of objects to one another in your image. These are all determined by one thing alone: the position of your camera relative to the subject/scene.
@@MatthewAPhoto I think that will depend on what you hare capturing. For instance a tilt shift could be useful in capturing images of flooring while maintaining composition and DOF without sacrificing much of anything. I believe a lot of people who have never used the lens don't understand the value when needed. Sometimes those minor things can add up overall.
@3:00 Regading clients, I have worked with one for 14 years, sent a bad one day's worth of work preview a few weeks ago, and they were willing to leave me because of it. clients expect perfection, but if it is too perfect you are not leaving them room to comment and express themselves so they want perfect but also they want to feel they made you work for it, it is sick degenerate I know. clients will not see beyond croocked lines even if they have seen you do an awesome job on 100 previous projects. sad but absolutely true.
Because you don’t know how to take advantage of a high quality lens doesn’t mean useless , have you try to change deep of view of the Tilt lens ? Made A Macro item and background Mountain in focus same time in a single photos , don’t need Take 2 or more photos 😂 and imagen Focusing process
![Why not to buy a tilt-shift lens [Fuji 30/5.6].Tilt-shift isn't magic, what do the lenses really do](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zt9DjlaiUHA/mqdefault.jpg)
This comment is directed at those who think shift lenses are obsolete. Yes, you can use a non shift lens and crop and correct in post. However that may mean moving back to allow more room for correction for post corrections. However that is also going to change you perspective and possibly negatively affect your composition. No, shift lens are NOT obsolete. The are very much relevant today as they were when they first came out. There is also a major difference in stitching a wide FOV image from a TS lens vs. a UWA lens on a nodal point. Straight lines from a stitched image around a nodal point will appear curved while a shifted lens will stay straight. Stitching is actually better and more effective from a longer focal length on a nodal point.
It’s just a question of budget really. As it is in most cases. If you have the budget for one, and you can justify it, then you should get one.
All I know is this lens was a lifesaver for me after I bought it. Before that I’d been fudging around with a 14 mm wide angle lens and in tight spaces stitching panoramas together was a right palaver.
This lens literally reduced my panorama post processing time by a factor of four. And panoramas were a major aspect of the work I had to do.
Moreover, the distortion free consistency corner to corner of images that I’d stitch together without having to use photoshop’s algorithms were markedly better than the competition and allowed me to oust two other photographers that are vying for the contract. I got my money’s worth from this lens, would have made more if Corona hadn’t killed my career, tho.
Unless I'm missing something, I believe the first half of your comment is incorrect and misses the key point from the video. An equivalent FOV UWA lens to the total FOV available from a shift lens will yield the exact same *composition potential and perspective* (there should be no cause to step back as suggested). The only practical difference that could affect this should be the distortion characteristics of the individual lenses (in which case the shift lens might be better optimised given the architecture priority and likely comparing a prime against a zoom). If you're using film or are *limited* by sensor resolution then the shift lens comes into its own, but with a *surplus of resolution* in the camera and lens then you should be free to crop with no consequence to the *final output*. The second half of your comment was interesting and informative, thank you.
^^^ distortion-free corners would definitely be a substantial advantage of one of these lenses (albeit not an inherent quality of a TS lens but rather an optimisation that goes hand in hand with this purpose in the design brief)
I partially disagree. These are my reasons why I think TS lenses are better than regular ones:
1. When adding people in the foreground with a tall building in the background, then, the keystone correction on post could do a harm to people’s faces or bodies , especially at the corner of the image.
2. TS lenses have wider circle of image so, it will be better than regular ones at corners , especially wide open.
3. TS can be used to take a 3 shots panorama by shifting the lens up/down or left/right, without parallax.
4. TS has the ability to change the focal plane and extend depth of field so, it can be better than focus stack on situations when moving subjects are in front of (people, water, waterfalls, sun or moon at the horizon, etc)
5. TS has the ability to create the miniature effect that it is much natural and better than done later on post.
6. Last but not least, as a landscape shooter, I find more convenient to mount my TS lenses on my tripod at 90 degrees and then, decide the composition by shifting up/down the lens without any distortion.
It is true that regular pictures can be corrected later on post but this is done by losing pixels, which means that you lose information at the whole corners of the images, so, unless you take into account this drawback way before taking the shot and leave enough space, you might end up losing part of a building or wall if the correction affects those parts.
I agree with most of your arguments. I also stopped 'shift' vertically and simply use software to correct the perspective. But one aspect cannot be simply ignored: The tilt operation delivering unlimited depth of field (a.k.a. Scheimpflug principle). Last but not least: Shift horizontally to avoid your own reflection in a window glass or a mirror.
Yes - was going to make the reflection point too
Software will just S T R E T C H the pixels and hence degrade the quality but, if you don't care about such things, go ahead.
@@pleatedskirt18 To a degree, I do not care, if I visually do not see the difference. I am aware of the degradation. It is obvious, and I am aware that demanding professionals will always need a shift/tilt lens. They are by the way fun to use. A classic Toy for a grown Boy.
Even though I agree with all the points you made, there is one very important aspect of TS lense you haven't mention, which definitely can NOT be simulated/achieved by postprocessing - it is changing angle (tilt) of *focal plane* while preseving camera filed of view. Effect of this aspect will become very apparent, when using shallow depth of view (small apperture values).
==> One picture better then thousand words - to demonstrate what I mean, please search for the _"Tilt-shift lenses get sushi moving in short film"_ phrase on some search engine (I'm not allowed to post links here). The article is about making the short movie (yes movie) using Canon TS lenses. Besides photos, you will find the movie there as well.
Wow the video you referd to was amazing.. Now I need one 😂
The main argument for TS lenses is in-camera composition. You can see your final composition without having to imagine the correction or guess at the amount of up or down pitch you need to achieve the composition you want. I actually use this method everyday for RE work, where I prefer to work with a wide zoom lens. But, on projects where I have time, I prefer working with TS lenses.
exactly.
fully agree.
plus, I often use TS-E to make panoramic images, catching wider field of view with optics of TS-E lens.
Thank you for making a video that so succinctly summarizes my feelings about T/S lenses.
Absolutely agree with your debunking the myths. There is one situation where I found the 17mm TSE on a GRX 50S was the only solution however.
Wanted to get a shot of an office building from across the street. I had to put camera on tripod between two sign posts at curb. So, only two parking lanes and two traffic lanes of distance between camera and sidewalk in front of building. By using shift in both vertical and horizontal directions I was able to get the entire building with some breathing room around the edges.
So, glad they are in my kit.
I routinely do something similar with 20mm Laowa Shift lens now when shooting lux real estate. Makes it a snap to combine the two frames into a square with more floor and ceiling features included without having to include lots of dead space on the sides of the frame. Yes I could shoot with 14mm and crop but this approach lets me shoot a job without having to do lots of lens swapping.
Agree, agree, and for the third point half yes/half nope. Tilting the focal plane cannot (I said it) be reproduced in post or with a regular lens. But if you don’t need to do that, or if you don’t need to get that “bathroom mirror shot,” then you don’t need a tilt shift. And if you care about this as much as you suggest, you will read comments.
As a tilt-shift 24mm user - agree with most of what you've said. The only I issue I had before buying TS and using a regular 16mm was when shooting taller buildings, I would sometimes fail to get the perfect angle so that the corrected verticals wouldn't cut off too much of the sky or any other objects around the corners. Other than that TS just make the work faster and of course makes it more satisfying to lock on the composition while on location.
Yet I think the biggest value from TS is that it really affects your compositions on the spot, yes of course you can get the same result by using 16mm and cropping but I don't think many photographers shoot with cropping in mind, they'd rather step back, zoom in if possible (like with those 16-35mm). I can really tell the specific ''style'' that heavy TS users do. So it's a creative tool as well, for me at least.
Very well said 👍
Stiching panorama with 16-35 solves all issues. You will get even wider fied of view and higher resolution than TS lens. PTGui stiches perfectly event handled shots outdoors. (for interiour nodal plate and tripod will be required due to closer distances)
@@VolodymyrTorkalonot that easy if your a shooting, for say, a vase with thin branches in it or an inside/out with thin curtains moving in the wind. If so I would stay clear of any stitching.
And considering the price, weight and cumbersome of a precise nodal head, which by the way works only with primes, you might as well get a TS
Your ending was gold! I also agree with you that skills can trump new gear! Always keep learning out there!
I think you're one of the rare individuals who caught the "easter egg" at the end 👍
I use a 17mm exclusively with an EOS R for real estate. This is coming from an a6500 and 9mm Laowa (13mm FF equivalent). I have had instances where I had zero flexibility with composition and the TS saved the day. I spend less time cropping a bunch of images from an ultra wide lens or zooming to find the right composition. The more you use the lens the more familiar you become with using it. Camera height affects camera composition a lot less than shifting a lens. For exteriors I typically shift up and crop down. It does give you more control on what part of the lens you use. It's not necessary to start, but I haven't regretted getting and using the lens exclusively. TS lens are also useful for video where cropping and correcting perspective is less forgiving.
Thats very true, i've bought my TS-E lenses mostly to shorten editing time (absolutely hated composing images with 17mm and then straighten). With 45 or 90 there's also the space for swing when you need to photograph some products. They are very handy but for most part, what you need is a vision.
OMG! This question had been bothering me for the last month, and a TS was in my cart! You just saved me money and push me forward to change my mind about lenses. I just watched your video about your gear and looked to laowa 20 mm. So, what lens do you suggest as the best for Sony?
If you're looking to eventually get a shift lens...yeah I would suggest the Laowa 20mm. WAYYY cheaper than getting the Canon 24mm with a Sony adapter. But in reality - I use my Sigma 24-70 for about 75% of the shots I take
For what it’s worth the tilt shift has been the most important purchase thus far for me.
Hi, Matthew. I'm a Brazilian photographer and I have been working for some years now, but only recently I started to work in the architecture field and your videos have been helping me a lot. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Matthew, fyi, I just bought your course on AP Almanac and I am loving it. Thanks for putting it out there!
You’ve just saved me a fortune … THANK YOU!!! I came across your video when researching about purchasing and adapting a Canon TS lens onto a Sony camera. Now I don’t have to (and won’t) do either! GREAT video!
me too. looked at 35mm pc lens. now looking to get 20-28mm lens only
Great Video and liked it. I'm only an amature photographer, but love using TS lenses for landscape photography to obtain that apparent infinite depth of field. You're quite right about being able to obtain the same field of view with a wide angle lens vs shifting a longer TS lens. I have a voightlander 10mm rectlinear lens and the canon 17mm TS. If I shift the 17mm TS left and right to the max and stich together, then I get the same field of view with the 10mm lens. The difference is the final resolution and only going to be noticeable if printed..
As a landscape photographer I probably use the tilt more than I do the shift, and with the exception of the minature affect. using the tilt cannot be emulated by standard lenses or corrected in post.
Can we tilt or shift the sensor to get the same effect as a tilt-shift lens since it's all IBIS now?
Same reasons, rented and tried them and since then I use regular lensed for architectural shoots. Bought though a 90mm TSE for product photography.
I prefer a tilt shift to a regular lens, at least for product photography. A regular lens can't achieve a certain focus without tilt. Focus-stacking can help, but sometimes it's a pain.
Otherwise, for shifting with a non tilt-shift lens, I use a tripod center column to shift up. It doesn't always do the trick, but sometimes it does.
Resort & hotel photographer. I used 17 and 24 mm tsr ! Just because i can be more precise on my framing especially when on hotel rooms you have to show full bed and tv ! With normal lens you have to guess how will be the framing when making pics straight on post .
When I started working on this industry I shoot with normal lens and it was fine !
Now I have more budget so TSR lenses are just more comfortable for me .
For the rest I totally agreed with Matthew
But if you DO want tilt-shift lenses, but not pay the price Canon or Nikon asks, you can get some completely manual lenses for several mounts from Arax. I got their 28mm with the Pentax K-mount and have used it with the Pentax K-5 earlier, and now the Samsung NX1 for photography and video, and it's great fun and handy.
In some cases, correcting distrortion with a TS lens is actually even more complicated and time consuming. I regularly use the Rokinon 24mm TS lens, and it has quite a bit of distortion. Since it's 100% manual, I can't 1-click correct like with other modern lenses, AND since it's shifted the distortion isn't even centered. I have to note down the shift amount while shooting, manually calculate the distortion displacement, use that number to extend the canvas in Photoshop, and THEN apply the manual correction.
That's why you don't buy the Rokinon junk TS lens. The Canon is way better at controlling distortion.
I have a 45 and a 24 t/s and what I usually use the for is to make an extra wide distortions free panorama. Most often a 1-3 frames where I shift left or right. Sometimes swinging the lens for focusing purposes (swing is the horizontal version of tilt)
I use small format (micro 4/3, APC-C, 35mm) cameras when I do not need tilt/shift features for architecture.
I use medium format cameras (6x6, 6x7, 6x9, or 6x12) when I do not need tilt/shift features for architecture..
When I need tilt/shift features for architecture, I use a 4x5 inch monorail view camera with front and back tilt/shift features.
When I only need shift features for architecture, I can use a small format perspective control lens that only has a shift feature.
Read a comparison some time ago between a modern wide angle lens and an older tilt shift. The wide angle won the resolution competition. After the distortion correction.
I rarely use tilt, occasionally use it to get more in focus ( rather than the youtube approach of getting more out of focus). However I use shift all the time for loads of things and find it very useful and much better than doing in post. Doing in post can bring up all sorts of problems.
I fell into architectural photography a number of years ago. I'm a hobby photographer who gets asked to do pro work. I mostly do interior shots, and basically get by with a wide angle lens and software. No one asks what lens that I'm using. No one asks how many MP my camera has. No one even asks what camera I use. However, I do get grateful comments on the finished product. I'm not knocking tilt-shift lenses, but all too often people assume it is the equipment when it really is a little knowledge and a good eye. The majority of the "pro" work that I do is now architectural photography. I used a Canon 5DIV and the lens I use isn't even a "L" lens.
My arguments for tilt shift is that it is giving a direct preview of the final composition which is difficult to pre visualise (at least for me) and that the keystone corrections do change the aspect ration and it is very hard to reproduce the actual high to width of a building.
I only wany a tilt shift lense for the miniature look effect
@Matthew Anderson, you're my new favorite in this space. I'm like 80% convinced I don't need this lens but... a challenge. Let's see an interior, likely kitchen shot (one of those kitchens with the hanging orb lights over the island, edison bulb in glass sphere, mid-century diner feel -take your pick) but the shot calls for one of those hanging lights at edge of frame... how do you keep the light from looking like an egg, a space ship... a torpedo? Has an architect or builder ever told you, "that looks great but those lights are globes not ovals." Is the answer just shoot wider and crop in, or would a shift lens actually resolve this? AND... without a shift lens, is there like a secret handshake I need to learn to gain the knowledge of fixing this in post? Thanks for all you do and if you have any sway, nudge Mike for an APA black friday sale 😉
Couldn't care less about resolution or looking professional... what I do care about when shooting, is making sure my composition is more or less perfect when taking the shot. Something I just can not do without a TS lens in most of my cases. For me, it's just ease of mind to know how the composition will be before heading home into development.
What about tilt DOF capabilities?
I have one, it works well and I can make e over 100mil pixel with 4 shots. Just use also the ring to avoid parallax.
Some great points! Nice vid
I don't like post processing that much so if I can get it all done in camera then I'd invest in a TS lens.
I’m considering selling my barely used TS-17. Absolutely a great fixed lens. I’m primarily RE and although I can take shots quickly, it’s still a little slower and for my needs, slower and less creative than a zoom. There have been a few shots that I couldn’t replicate on any other lens, most I could easily get by using my EF-11-24 then re crop in post.
5:42 Wrong. It is a 24mm lens. The focal length is a physical property of the lens. Two 24mm lenses, each rendering a different size image circle are still each 24mm lenses with the same characteristics of a 24mm. 24mm is 24mm regardless of the format (e.g., the size of the image circle). There is no such thing as equivalence of focal lengths based on size of image circle and hence field of view. This is quite an important technical aspect of understanding photography.
Another aspect of tilt-shift lenses you completely ignore is tilt. Yes, you are 100% correct that it is very easy to compensate for shift by perspective correction through keystone compensation in software with a single image at the expense of resolution and sharpness. But it is very difficult and time consuming to compensate for not having tilt when you are using it to manipulate the focus plane. You would have to work with focus stacking and that would still not give you the exact same result, drastically increasing the time needed to get the shot(s) AND adding time and effort to creating the focus stacked shot. With tilt, it is one shot in camera with no post processing needed for that aspect of the shot.
I think if architecture is an occasional use case for someone, they won't need a TS lens. But if architecture is something you do exclusively, you'd be dumb not to get a TS lens as that makes your life so much easier. It is a must investment then.
Thank you for making this video, I'm new to tilt shift, I thought to get one or F0.95, now I know it's just a wider len's with in camera crop, thanks again!
What about fotodiox adapter tilt shiift, that work very Well, for little money...
M43 has shift in the camera. Shoot pic 4:3 and crop 3:2 up or down.
This was a super helpful video! as a beginner trying to decide if it's a necessary investment early on, this helped me gain a better understanding of what a tilt shift lens actually provides. the explanation about it being 'in camera cropping' made it click for me in a way i hadn't understood yet. Great content! i'm gonna see what i can achieve without one first, do a little gear research in the meantime, and wait until i naturally arrive at a point of desiring one while shooting before buying one. thanks !
Now that I understand how a title/shift lens has a significantly larger image circle, the pricing seems ENTIRELY reasonable! Thanks for this presentation - very useful indeed.
This is a great topic to touch on. I’ve been making a living without using a tilt shift but of course I still plan on getting one.
That’s the way I think, when I shoot I don’t even think will be only small size image. I think will be print big. Tilt Shift lens is amazing. I have two Canon and Two Fujifilm. Forget to fix after if you can do straight out of the camera. Please don’t get me wrong.
Hardly ever pull out my TS anymore. Too much CA and I just enjoy using zooms so much more. I don't feel like shifting is appropriate for interior architectural, especially normal ceiling height.
With my Canon R5 and the 11-24 I need to carry only this monster. Yes, a TS lense is the “old” and technically best way to get the technical correct picture and with a correction in Lightroom you can correct this without having deeper understanding. So the expert uses a TS but the “lazy” one does it in post. So no one is right or wrong. Thanks for your video!❤
Oddly enough I'm wondering about ditching my 17mmTS. Timely video. Thanks.
The biggest argument FOR a tilt shift is that you are seeing exactly what you're going to get while taking the photograph. A point that's very important. It's also the biggest benefit of shooting digital, you can see what you've actually shot. And every professional camera slinger photo or video, does everything they can to get it in-camera, and uses post only to do to the image that which couldn't be made to happen while taking the photo.
I've never owned a tilt lens, and shoot architectural. And despite many years of shooting, it still happens more that I'd like to admit that I think I've framed the wide angle photo correctly for correcting the geometry in post, just to find out that I've clipped off a portion of the structure by not going wide enough. Now, if I were using a tilt lens, I'd have seen that while out in the field and could have taken measures to prevent it. Waiting until post to find out means I'm going back for a reshoot.
Well, a TS use depends on client and situation. No hard and fast rule. I would always have a TS in my kit. I would use more often on commercial interior jobs (hospitality / resort and furniture companies). I'd use the shift function way more than the tilt. But in the end depending on how far back I could go on set I'd often just use a fixed 50mm or fixed 35mm Zeiss.
Hey Matthew, big fan! This was very insightful, and loved the editing. Thank you!
Awesome video dude. But like you mentioned at the last point, they are a professional asset that improve and help you create images in Camera that don’t need extra cropping :)
Love my 20 and 50mm shifts but also love my 14-35.
I can get professional results with both, but I much prefer the in camera experience of using my shift lens overall when composing, especially for architecture, but that’s just me 🎉
Love the advice, much appreciated !
You’re awesome Matt. Love your stuff. Keep it up…ONWARD!
I just realized this a couple of days ago! It's nice to have a video that explains this so well. 😀
In my experience you don't need them but they sure make my compositions easier to get right in camera. My architectural/design photography is shot 85% w/ my Canon 24 TS ( adding the 1.4 extender occasionally ). Prior to that I used to use my Canon 16-35 for the same perspectives and do post corrections ( I still use it when wide is needed ) but even though the TS slows you down in the pre-shooting process, I still prefer it to any lens in my kit for that type of work. Like you said Matt, you can get away with less but as you progress most photogs always look for the better kit...Another analogy...I used to drive a beater in high school and college to get around. Now I drive a something MUCH nicer. Thanks again for another great video.
I agree with you. When you leave the location, you know what you have and if cropping in post is fine to fix distortions, having to go back because misjudging what was captured with a standard lens and framing too tight would not be a plus. Instead, If I was doing architecture and I had a 24TS, I would have the opportunity fine tune the file somehow in post if felt it was needed.
Totally true, in fact quality might be lower with extreme movements or slight off focus, and distortion bigger with no easy correction, except: TS=Wysiwyg.
No more surprise when straitening the image, no more "Damn I miss a bit".
And precise spacing to the frame borders.
The other solution is to shoot tethered to a computer and do the corrections on the fly, easy indoor, not so much in the middle of a street. Much cheaper though...
In the wake of lightroom's super resolution enhance feature, the cropping and losing pixels argument goes completely out the window. I'll still keep my 24mm tse, but I'm honestly planning on compacting my lens selection to just RF 14-35 F4 and 24-105 F4. I noticed I often spend a lot of time faffing about changing tilt shift lenses to find the right composition just to find out 24mm is too wide and 1.4x extender makes it too tight.
I always wondered about this - the faffing - it could be never ending - I wonder how many photographers using TS still have to adjust for distortion and lens aberrations post shooting.
SO. GOOD! Next level production and pacing.
This man is incredibly funny and so so right. And my god the editing and pacing of the videos is just great.
I love my tilt shifts but my 50mm doesn't get a lot of use-the longer the focal length, the less you need to shift. But damn, it's the sharpest lens I own and I've got some very nice zooms! Really looking forward to seeing what a more modern tilt shift looks like for the mirrorless age... my 24mm is showing it's age for sure.
Thanks! First visit and I like your style. I’m clicking “subscribe.”
I have a friend who shoots a ton of interiors, design, arch, is looked up to by many other photographers, and gets hired by many. He barely uses his tilt-shifts these days. This is mostly due to the fact he's using the GFX system which has a 4:3 aspect ratio (aka more image height than a full-frame camera), and has plenty of resolution to crop. Most shoots he gets by with a lens with a FOV equivalent to a 25-50mm lens for like 70-80% of the shots. The other thing you can do if you're worried about your clients not being able to see something closer to your final shot is tether to a laptop and bang out a quick edit with image transforms.
Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I should just stick with my 15-35 for real estate and not bother with changing lenses... 🤔
Finally got a tilt shift lens in order to see how they work. I like it, but it is not the end all lens for everything. I also understand your side of the argument since I have using Adobe product since 2002. Back then I was using film and scanning images in from negitives to use PhotoShop, a tilt shift lens would have been great to use since PhotoShop 5 and 6 was primitive back then compared to today's product.. Lightroom did not exist until later after PhotoShop 7 which had Image Ready and the first filter library. I don't think tilt shifts are obsolete especially when you do fine art prints that are way over 30 x 40 inches and usually measured in feet. For most work that is done today PhotoShop and Lightroom can handle most of it since most of it is digital media.
I agree Matthew. I don't own a tilt-shift and my business will be 10 years old this September. However, I often have light fixtures hanging at a slightly odd angle. I'm sure you know what I mean. That is the only reason I am tempted to buy a tilt-shift! Crazy I know. I really want everything straight, darn it. But it seems to be accepted by many of my clients. They know about some distortion or they really don't notice it. But I am not losing any sleep over crooked lights so I probably won't be buying one any time soon. I really like spending any extra mula on education personally at this point in my career. Thanks for saying it out loud! :)
Not having to crop out massive amounts of foreground or, in the case of interiors, being able to shift the lens so as not to have too much ceiling make the price of a shift lens more than justified. That's not to mention the ease of creating a super wide image by shifting and stitching which can create a final image far wider than most usable wide angle lenses. It's true that you can 'get by' without a tilt/shift lens but in the long run the benefits of having the option are quite clear. I don't see this as some sort of societal problem and I've never heard of any photographer getting 'put down' for not having a shift lens so the argument is rather beside the point.
Oh I've seen PLENTY of condescending comments from seasoned photographers directed toward rookies (or other photographers in general) alluding that they can't get true "professional" photos w/o a TS lens. This video's mere existence has seemed to bring a few of them out of the woodwork (and not just on TH-cam) 🤣
At first it made sense but on reflection I don’t agree. As a compositional aid it is essential. Agree fully with Mike Kelly who recently commented on Instagram. If you want to perform at a high level they are important
it takes a bit of labor to get the relgular lens to look perfectly like the real thing
I don't think they're super necessary for most stuff. I mostly enjoy using one (always rented, because no reason to spend the money on having one all the time) when I want to shoot from greater height without showing too much ceiling, or composing a straight shot I wouldn't be able to get by being able to shift to the right or left. Not necessary most of the time but I enjoy renting TS lenses on occasion for particular projects.
A tilt/shift lens is nothing more that another tool in the arsenal of the camera bag, it does a specific job, just like any lens be it wide angle, standard, telephoto in prime single focal length or zoom. You can shoot architecture or landscape with a Box Brownie and the ultimate image will be down to your creativity. in the scheme of things a tilt/shift lens is no more special than any other lens but it is very useful for a specific job.
I note that all the examples shown are interior shots, where a tilt/shift has only a marginal, if any. the biggest advantages and differences come when you are shooting externally.
If fewer than half the pro photographers could pick the tilt/shift photo, then pictures I take with a 10-20mm zoom on an APS-C camera will be plenty good enough to display around my house.
so for over $1000 i can buy a laowa shift lens with no electronics or auto focus for my sony -- just a chunk of dead glass with a slider thing. i hope i don't move the aperture ring by mistake. no way to see that on an lcd! and then i get to slide around an image to find a nice composition. how to turn a one hour shoot into a 3 hour shoot. OR just use my 16-35mm SONY with AF and all the electronics and go wide and crop in post. with 61 megapixels i have plenty of rez. tilt shift? no thx!!
solid vid, sold my 24mm tilt shift a year ago due to similar conclusions.
Finally someone was dare to say out loud and debunk the myth. Congrats Andrew 👏👏👏👏 well done. IMHO a TS lens is an option not a must have. Depending on the skill level you have it may or may not help capturing the final image you desire. Everything happens in your brain first. A dull knife is still a deadly weapon in the right hands. 😉
shoot... and here I thought I'd have to stich shots together with my 15mm wideangle lense to get out cascading lines and here you are... showing me a stitched-together-version of a tilt-shift vs a single shot with the wideangle lense, corrected in post. thanks for all these informations in the video. thought I spare me some work with a 17mm-tilt-shift-lense regarding post production, but maybe I'm just fine with the 15mm :)
like your humor too - "hit the thumbs down twice for the emphasis" hahahahha
Brilliant, thanks 👏
Firstly - I want that lens cap (dropped a few lenses have we?)
Secondly - please share your two second (er 1second) distortion script probably worth more than you realise and does it run on Windows 11?
In all SERIOUSNESS great video and gives a non TS owner some comfort. I have some very tilted shots of structures up close and use DxO PL EL 6 with Viewpoint linked in to adjust - works amazingly well - just have to remember to zoom out a bit more to give space for cropping. Great stuff Matthew - “subscribed”👍
Thank you.
I've been considering trading my GM 16-35 in for a GM 14mm to get those wide angle shots that need that extra coverage a tilt-shift provides. I already came to similar conclusions to the ones you pointed out in this video. My GM II 24-70 stays on the camera for pretty much everything else on my interior design & architecture shoots.
Try panorama with 3 vertical shots using 16-35. It works awesome with ptgui software
@@VolodymyrTorkalo Already shooting bracketed photos with flash pops after. Panning 3 verts on top of that would over complicate the process.
@@jaredmeche6325 ptgui can stich pano and hdr in single run :)
what are you saying dude... TS lens are made because of the 3 reason you just mentioned, it is still the best option for professionals.
🤣
OK, you lost at the part where you said a 24mm TS lens is not actually 24mm. The focal length of the lens is absolutely 24mm, just that the image circle is bigger or smaller depending on the design of the lens. You don't have to lie to make a point.
🤣ok
. Interesting video. What mm did you capture the building with non tile shift lens? Will 17-35 do this? Thanks.
Gonna tell you. I have been using iPhone since the 12 pro max, and my clients not even know the difference. Some times the phone can get to tighter places.
Almost 10 years in hospitality field & no tilt shift, & not even a full frame, I can even show you a lot of craps shot on that bigger sensor
Fantastic comparison!!
On top of the point n°2: showing the client an almost perfect shot just out of the camera will make them feel that the price you ask is too high for such a small amount of work...
“Twice for Emphasis…” LOLOL! Too funny!
TSE makes life easier. I hate spending more time in front of the computer to fix things in post.
I shoot RE and Portraits mainly and have a 14-24 sigma art and a 24-105 canon l with a bunch of non L series primes I use for everything under the sun. This was helpful because I've always wanted a TS for the composition aspect. I feel like it being framed as you explained, would help me focus on that area better than my sigma would if that makes sense. I think a lot about this. No
What we are forgetting is the process of getting the photograph in the field.
Biggest argument is composition and composition is a fundamental aspect of almost any kind of creative work.
I mean sure you can go without a tilt-shift lens where you won't need one but then how far can you push that argument. I mean do you even need a "professional" camera cause smartphones are good enough right?
Do you even need to shoot RAW because JPEGs are good enough. I mean no one is going to be viewing your content in raw so why even mess with that step?
Why even bother to shoot in full resolution I mean a small JPEG is enough because let's be honest a 2mp file can be used to print a whole billboard.
This notion of you don't need x because y is good enough is generally foolish especially if you're a creative that is genuinely going to be taking pride in the kind of content you produce.
Don't be a cheap photographer and have such low expectations. Take pride in the kind of work you produce with the best equipment you can reasonably afford.
I think you missed the point. Your pro camera and JPEG parallels are redundant to the tripod analogy he already mentions in the video. Do you NEED any of this stuff? Not necessarily, but they do provide some professional conveniences. Unfortunately there's way too many pompous photographers online throwing their opinions around on this stuff as unquestionable gospel. The irony is, it sounds like you didn’t watch the entire video and catch the “easter egg” at the very end X-D
@@chasehenderson2250 I appreciate the comment my friend but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Positive comment or negative...it helps out my engagement numbers either way 🤣🤣🤣
@@chasehenderson2250 about the comment section, yeah I caught that. But we’re discussing ideas here not each other. I didn’t mention anything negative about Matthew.
Discussing any idea is fair game.
This whole concept is a little cringeworthy, it’s essentially a race to the bottom.
@@Sondercreative I’m struggling to see what the “concept” is exactly that you find cringeworthy? Are you saying that in order to be considered a genuine pro photographer in this genre, that you must posses and use TS lenses? One of the best architectural shots I’ve ever taken was on a Canon T2i. But is that not considered “pro” because it wasn’t shot on a pro camera?
@@chasehenderson2250 nope my first comment was clear enough.
I think people have a bad understanding of perspective to begin with. Your perspective is determined only by your point in space and what direction your line of sight is. Lens choice will simply crop and magnify, and distort. This doesn’t change the perspective. This can’t change the perspective. You can only have the same perspective exactly where you already are.
You’re taking crap. TS lenses are also called perspective control lenses, and used correctly they can alter the relative size of foreground and background elements. Also, aligning verticals in-camera ensures the composition is as intended, with no elements cropped from the frame after correcting in post.
The biggest difference is that a TS lens allows you to choose from a larger circle in front of your sensor. Using a conventional lens means you compromise on composition and then crop from the image you captured.
It is especially usefully with Kitchens. Ever composed a kitchen and tried to get the island and stove top to look just right, but where the camera is leaves not enough image on left or right? Then when you move the camera, the vanishing point gets screwed up? So you try wider lens but find the foreground distortion is screwing up the shot all together?
With a TS lens, you get your vanishing point set and shift the lens to give you the rest of the subject you want.
It's ok not have a TS lens right away, or ever. Especially in Real Estate, because agents don't pay enough to warrant anything that special anyway.
But don't be fooled. They are powerful tools! And worth every penny!
The only difference between a TS lens and a conventional wide angle lens (when it comes to shifting) is that the TS lens allows you to choose your crop "in camera" instead of cropping later in post. That's it. Otherwise there is no difference. There is no kitchen shot that you capture with a TS lens that I can't capture with a conventional lens.
@TheGearWillNotSaveYou I'm afraid that's not it. There is a significant difference in what is going on between using a TS or equivalent fixed lens. And an even bigger difference between a TS lens and a wider fixed lens.
If you find a good spot with your focal length, but you want more/less above, below, left, or right, you will skew the perspective if you move the camera in any of those directions to compensate.
With a TS lens, you can optimally achieve your desired frame w/o screwing up the perspective..... Or you can try standing back with a wider lens and crop out the amount of image you don't need. Whoever, with a wider focal length, you will get an increased level of distortion. It will become more apparent the closer you have to be to the subject.
I have worked years without TS lenses and now with them. Believe me, there is a difference.
Do you need them though?
If you charge in the 4 figures or more range for your work..... It would be a great investment. If you shoot real estate. Absolutely no need...... at all!
There is no practical optical difference. A TS lens is just a regular rectilinear lens inside a special housing. If you find a good spot with your 24mm TS lens and shift it to get the composition/field of view you want, I can stand in the same spot with my 14mm lens and then crop in post to get the same composition/field of view as your shot. We could superimpose the images on top of one another and they would be identical for all practical viewing purposes (tiny difference due to parallax issues, different resolutions due to cropping). As long as we're standing in the same spot the "distortion" would be the same.
@TheGearWillNotSaveYou LOL, Yeah right! A 24mm and 14mm shot from the same spot, layered together, will NOT match up identical. And the distortion would be noticeable. Even if you went through the whole method of composition and cropping, it just isn't the same. Colse, but not quite there.
If only there was a way to test my ridiculous assertion ;-)....Now we're kind of getting down to one of the "bottom line" basic principles of photography - and really a core concept in my opinion when it comes to creating great architecture/interior images. That is: The focal length/field of view of your lens has NOTHING to do with the "perspective distortion" or "compression" in your image. Distortion and compression has to do with the distance between your camera and the subject. That's it. You can swap lenses, zoom in and out, and shift as much as you want but none of that will change the core composition, the distortion, or the relationship of objects to one another in your image. These are all determined by one thing alone: the position of your camera relative to the subject/scene.
Thank you!
15 years real estate photography. Not even touched one. 😂
Appreciate it if you could share how you got round the challenges of parallax. Thank you in advance.
@@TacereMorsget good at post production. lol
Scheimpflug's rule is a good reason to have a tilting lens.
I agree but I believe that rule has more application to product photography than architecture. I could be wrong though 🤷♂️
@@MatthewAPhoto I think that will depend on what you hare capturing. For instance a tilt shift could be useful in capturing images of flooring while maintaining composition and DOF without sacrificing much of anything. I believe a lot of people who have never used the lens don't understand the value when needed. Sometimes those minor things can add up overall.
@3:00 Regading clients, I have worked with one for 14 years, sent a bad one day's worth of work preview a few weeks ago, and they were willing to leave me because of it. clients expect perfection, but if it is too perfect you are not leaving them room to comment and express themselves so they want perfect but also they want to feel they made you work for it, it is sick degenerate I know. clients will not see beyond croocked lines even if they have seen you do an awesome job on 100 previous projects. sad but absolutely true.
With a last name like Anderson, you should listen to this guy's opinion on glass.
Because you don’t know how to take advantage of a high quality lens doesn’t mean useless , have you try to change deep of view of the Tilt lens ? Made A Macro item and background Mountain in focus same time in a single photos , don’t need Take 2 or more photos 😂 and imagen Focusing process
I knew it was B!!!! LOL JK JK. I'm so glad that you made this video Matt.