Stihl ms400R vs ms661R - The Short Bar Session
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- Filmed in May, 2022.
As mentioned, WELL used chain. From a tree killing sabbatical over on Mr. Ryder's compound. It's Carlton A2 chain (purchased by Blount Corporation) - which is the supplier for Bailey's and their "Woodsmen Pro".
Also as mentioned an old Tsue 30" bar that I have had for several decades. Still in pristine condition.
I've done a lot of testing with a couple of 400s at this juncture. They are not available as wrap version from the factory. I had fitted the 362 wrap upgrade kit onto this saw .It's been fun and tedious. Enlightening and lengthy. 3 topend assemblies. Various air filtration choices. A magnitude of saw-offs & a felling adventure. Some of which has made on the channel at this point. You just "gotta love" real-world R&D!
This is the first saw-off session between these two.
The ms661R is a standard. Coil limited high idle to 13,320. Bone stock.
The ms400R C-M is at the Psy-Ko S level of zippkitting - stage 5.5 in essence. 14,040 coil limited.
I talked about the factory rated HP & displacement comparison:
661s come in a 91.13cc with a 56mm bore x 37mm stroke. 7.2 HP.
400s are 66.76cc with a 50mm bore x 34mm stroke. Rated at 5.4HP.
Weight comparison:
- On my less than Weights & Measures" accurate bathroom scales -
The 661R Magnum weighs 19.2 to 19.4 pounds with fully laden tanks.
The 400R C-M tips the scales consistently at 15.4 lbs., tanks laden.
Differential comparison:
The 661 is up by 24.37cc over the 400.
The 661 is up by 1.8 HP over the 400.
The in this session the 661 outweighs the 400 by 3.8 pounds. That is a lot of extra mass. It becomes more noticeable ~ mid week when a guy is on gnarly and/or brushy ground...
The 400 had the worst of it in this session. Nearly 2" wider cut in the first run. The "whatever this is" in the center of the log in the 3rd & 4th runs had an interesting look - at lot like a knot. You can hear the 400 lose some rpms when it gets to that point in the cut.
Timed runs:
400 @ 14,040 am filter #1 went 10.60 down and 10.78 up.
661 @ 13,320 went 8.91 down and 9.05 up.
400 @ 14,040 am filter #1 went 10.15 down and 10.24 down.
400 @ 14,040 am filter #2 went 10.14 down and 10.98 up.
I think that the two runs in the middle were the closest as far as diameter & consistency of the wood. The "whatever that is" becomes more prevalent in the 3rd run. Clearly the 661 had the bye in this session.
At this stage of zippkit, along with the aid of a better flowing air filter, the "little saw that could" makes a respectable showing against the 661R Magnum. I "might just be" magnanimously pleased in the end!
At the time of your viewing this, I may, or may not, be immediately available for custom saw modifications. I am booked out several months regularly. If you are interested in having a saw zipped, please shoot me an email. That is the best, first point of contact.
danger_cat@rocketmail.com
Thanks for watching.
Hello. MicroHowler taking on Goliath in the initial testing stages. Doing well I might ad. The description area has the timed runs as well as the technical data & differentials of these two - separated by 3 model sizes. Thanks for watching.
That 400 is impressive! I've got mine in stock non wrap trim with a 20 light bar and it's like a fighter jet! Keeps up with and surpasses my 500i in a lot of ways. A 661 is on my don't need it but really kinda want it list. We'll see what the future brings. Great job Jack... Keep it up!
Cutting knots with .06” rakers, impressive! 🇨🇦🇺🇸
Good job Jack!! There's something about the 400 that's got my attention!! OK now you need to run a 562xp& the 400 Jack you you know how strong your 562xp is the little saw that could 💪
Belated... Sorry.
Thank you.
The 400s gobble up the 562s all things being equal. It's noticeable. Spent a fair amount of time this last fall with my 400. Busheling. Sporting an Oregon lw 30" bar.
My personal 400 runs a little better than this one. The featured 400 here can be seen running close to a stock 661 welding a "36"" bar in another video. A 661 is three saws ahead in Stihl's model lineup.
We are talking a saw that weighs less than a 562 & ½ of a pound more than a ms362 - the "60" cc class leader in the low mass category.
It is not that a 562 is a slouch, because they most definitely are not. 562s give up almost 7cc of displacement.
The engine design is nearly identical between a 562 & 400 so neither has the "one up" on the other. If anything, the 562 might get the nod for better charge delivery characteristics.
No appreciable advantage in engine design and down a large amount of displacement. The 562 is never going to come out on top, again, all things being equal.
Thanks for watching.
@hotsaws101 Thanks, exactly the answer that I was looking for. I am about to become a pro, and since we don't use those long bars in Europe, I think it will be a great one saw plan to be completed with ms661 in the future. Nobody is really doing a port job here, I have tried for myself, and I seem to like the outcome, but for daily use I am gonna stick with setting a squish band and MM, at least for now, just to be safe. Wish You could give us some porting tips for more torque. All the best, Sir!
That's an impressive "little" saw
Is there anything that can be done to improve the oil pump on the MS400?To me,with a 28 inch bar,the oiling seemed not so good.Thanks for another awesome video.
I believe you can make a 461 oiler work on them.
I just installed a high output oil pump (Stihl part number 1128 640 3250) in my 400. It was straight plug and play, no mods needed, and took about ten minutes to do. Brian2bears has a video on how to do it here, just search the part number I mentioned here on TH-cam, and you’ll find it.
It would be interesting to know what the horsepower numbers are at this point with this 400. I have one good 30" bar left, I don't use it as often as a 28" or a 32" The Tsumura light bars have held up very well for me.
both saws sound and cut great...so why was the cylinder cover plastic flopping around loose on the 661...wasn't tighten down? Thank you for the video. Shoe
In my mind the “Torque Monster” 461 is still the pound for pound champ. But maybe you might feel differently?
whitetitanium88 hi. They are for different timber, and therefore, bar sizes. Your probably correct though. I can only get a 400 to run (sorta) with a 661. The TM 461 runs right with an 088.
Thanks for watching.
Hey there are all bread chainsaw , get some 95cc to 105cc . Them you might hang around with west coast boys . 500 i own 79cc give about little bread saw .
When do we get to see some 400 vs 462 ? And ………. 395 vs 592 vs 585 great videos thanks for sharing jack
Hey jack are you impressed with the 400? I haven't even run one and I am. No full wrap?! I can't wrap my head around that! What the heck stihl?! Mint vids man, always a good day when u full send a new video!👌
Mr. Jack, at this point your R&D investment with 3 top-end assemblies $1200+ a cylinder/air-box cover, various air-filters, oiler internals, maybe more....
Hey Jack what's the R stand for? My new 400c-m was only model I've saw
Jamie hi. Wrap. But I spooned that on.
Thanks for watching.
Did that saw beat a 500i that you built?
The Lumberjack
Jackyl
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Whether you like it or whether you don't woo
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Quick question from someone who has never owned a breathed upon saw in their life (30 years on and off cutting) and who runs stock chains . Why don't you use the dogs to allow the saws to demonstrate their torque under load? No agenda here sir just a question from a curious on-looker who routinely pivots the saw around the dogs. Regards from Scotland.
To me there’s a sweet spot you’ll find yrs cuttin where it falls through the wood fast as possible going straight down
Jack are you accepting porting jobs? I’d like to get my MS362MC PHYSKO-is-ed!
Forrest hi. Email is the best 1st point of contact.
Thanks for watching.