Why He's Not Considered Japanese in Japan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- Joey Bizinger, known as The Anime Man, is a very popular anime Japanese TH-camr, talking about anime and manga as well as the Japanese culture and society he has experienced. In this video, let's think about why he's constantly treated as a gaijin in Japan.
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0:00 What's Going On?
3:09 The Caveats
4:55 The Reason No.1
8:17 The Reason No.2
12:42 The Reason No.3
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My mom was born and raised in Japan. She only moved to the States when I was born and English (is obviously) her second language. When she visited Japan for the last time before she passed away, she was no longer considered "Japanese" by Japanese people. She was "too Americanized" and her Japanese developed an "accent" from living abroad for too long. This is a woman whose friends were all fellow Japanese in America and they only spoke Japanese to each other, mostly cooked and ate Japanese food every day, rented VHS tapes of Japanese shows. and read Japanese books and magazines... and even she was no longer really Japanese to people in Japan. It's crazy.
common thing with all asian countries you can clearly tell if someone lived in the US.
To be fair if a Brit had a American accent, I’d see them as American.
More important than language ability, it's mannerisms and attitude.
Dang. I'm really sorry how your own Japanese mom was labeling as an "outsider" by native Japanese. This also happens to many non-spanish speaking Mexican-Americans who also had strong Mexican indigenous roots. You're not alone buddy
Among the older generations there is a sentiment that if you lived aboard for a long time (few years being minimum) you're tainted. It used to be difficult for Japanese who studied aboard to find employment.
Things changed now that Japanese companies tried to go international due to shrinking domestic market, but the culture stayed, because welcome to gerontocracy.
If I moved to Japan, I wouldn't mind being treated as a foreigner, as long as people aren't straight up rude to me. But if I was half Japanese, I think it would bother me a lot.
As someone who has been working in Japan for 2 years, I can say at least where I work, and in restaurants and public transport where I live some people won't be "straight up rude" to your face but will happily say some pretty mean things within earshot to someone else. It has really demotivated my drive to continue learning the language further. It was fine up until the 2 year mark, but it has really worn me down, and once I finish my contract next summer, I'll be returning home. It's such a shame because Japanese is such a nice and interesting language to learn, and Japan has many wonderful things.
Same
This strict definition of identity is simply supreme compared to the western openness. The start of your comment got it right: "As long as people aren't straight up rude".
As a German I don't acknowledge most half-Germans as Germans, btw. I only pretend if I have to, to not open a can of worms but only as long the're not pushing it. They might be German citizens and that's it. We have a term which best translated would be "Passport-Germans".
@@user-ph9ll7xl3z That or just assume the foreigner was the cause of trouble like when you work in electrical appliances for office buildings via a work visa and no matter how much the employer tried, clients would be outright mean or prejudiced against westerners fixing their stuff. And if you do fix it, they'll complain and say the white person made it worse intentionally if it breaks down in the future for something unrelated to the previous repair.
I think what will likely happen is that you will be treated overly polite and you will be lonely.
The happiest Japanese nationals I ever met were living in Saigon or Bangkok. Those were also some really cool and friendly Japanese people that I met. Its going to sound crazy but--I made more Japanese national friends in Thailand and Viet Nam than when I lived in Tokyo. All my friends in Tokyo were from other Asian countries, eg Vietnam, Philippines, Burma.
There are always the people who are fed up with "strict traditional" aspect of their culture. Certain traditions are timeless, but there are also bad traditions that should be done away as the time passes on. For example, Japanese company culture is a big turn-off for free-thinking, creative types among Japanese.
I work in Taiwan and I know s number of Japanese people here. Some of them have openly told me that they are not sure would they ever again be able to return to Japanese work culture.
I've had the same experience. I've lived in korea and japan. But all my close Japanese and korean friends were all made while I was living in Thailand and Malaysia.
I live in Saigon and there are very few young Japanese or Korean expats here (basically none compared to London). They're mostly older men and their families. I met some really friendly older Japanese on the hash running club. I dated one girl in her 30s that was super nice but she returned to Japan after a few months. She said she was the youngest in her company and I think she was pretty lonely there.
Even (most) Japanese people living in the Philippines are much kinder😊saying this as a Filipino person.
What the guy from Cameroon and went to Japan when he was 4 said hit me really hard. He said that he thought he'd get a lot of friends if he went to Cameroon. I'm Taiwanese American who was raised in America. I was bullied throughout my elementary and middle school years because I was one of the very few Asian kids where I lived.
When I went to Taiwan when I was 13, I thought, this will be freaking great. I'll fit in, maybe make some friends. That was a huge no. I didn't dress the same, I was taller than all the kids there, I couldn't speak the language like they did. It was a real shock and for the longest time, I felt like I didn't belong anywhere. Fortunately I eventually realized I could create my own space, and that was where I belonged and fit in.
You know mean kids always pick kids that are different and sensitive to bully or tease. For Japanese or Chinese kids in Japan or Taiwan, it's kids that are too short, too tall, have big front teeth, have big flat noses, have fluffy hair, wear thick glasses, etc. that get teased or bullied. That's why plastic surgery is very popular in this region. People will criticize how you look in your face. The world is harsh for people that are sensitive and care too much about what people think no matter where you live.
@@goyam2981 I'm not talking about being picked on. I'm talking about kids throwing rocks at me, trying to fight me, pushing me down hills, and hitting me with their bikes. Well yea, I was also picked on but I don't think it is just a case of my being too sensitive.
@@thejinn99 Those were very mean kids and true bullies then. I'm sure they didn't do it to just you. My point is there are kids like that everywhere. If you happen to appear as an easy target they will do mean things to try to hurt you. It's important for parents to teach kids to be strong and not give a f..k. And if you come across bullies that hurt you physically, you gotta tell your parents to report to school. But it happens everywhere.
@@thejinn99 Even white kids and teens in the US could get bullied to the point of committing suicide.
And Joey is still struggling with it. Still offended by the "nihongo jouzu" comments, can't make his own space.
All culture needs naturalization, you can't just settle in. NATIVE PEOPLE even have to deal with the fact they're not "continuing" a legacy, they're ecreating a new culture BASED on the old one, it's a REBIRTH. It's not automatic, just dessing up in your daddy's clothes like Joey tries to and feels entitled to "fit in".
Japan was forcibly acclimatized to this Western jingoism where the imaginary civic profile of "true Japanese" matches up with "true Geman" or "true American". USA didn't win the ww2 it ADOPTED its practices, it is NOW getting it's cheap labor from Seoul and Nanking.
Japan is a UNIQUELY AMERICAN enclave in Asia, it's their Western colony. That's why they still act like this after beign razed to the ground, not made into a labor camp like MOST place that USA conquers. That's the last palce you want to escape to for AVOIDING Western-style bullying, of kids being factroy farmed into good citizens that enforce a pecking order.
But, Japan is the only place in Asia that isn't too disgustingly ethnic to Americans, because they DID make it into their Jerusalem.
The greatest advantage is living in Japan as a foreigner. True, you will never be accepted as a Japanese, BUT you get all the advantages of having a cohesive and well ordered society, without all the disadvantages of having the MANY obligations and demands that a Japanese person has to fulfill.
Yeah, they don’t expect much from you so there’s a fair bit of leeway.
And yet you are destroying that cohesiveness you people cry so much about by being there. The ultimate hypocrisy.
@@atomixfangKeep going and the world becoming more incoherent.
A
Personally I'm glad I left
using the gaijin card you're talking about?!
As a Japanese father of a "hafu" daughter, I knew straight away Joey was part Japanese and half Australian. My daughter gets asked if she is Spanish, Russian. She gets asked if she is Asian when she is in Australia but she gets treated like a foreginer in Japan unless she wears a mask
With a lot of mixed people I cant even tell. I had a few half Asian friends in Aus and I thought they were some form of white, Spanish, Russian like you said.
Occasionally I see someone who skews more Asian but generally I feel it goes more towards Caucasian.
Kind of like how mixed black/white people almost always seem to look black.
i have the same, i’m hafu and only get treated as japanese when i wear mask
Gaijin treatment -- I never knew that term, but that is a real thing. If you hate it, you will hate living in Japan.
I enjoy it.
On my recent trip to japan my main frustration with the gaijin treatment was that it robbed me of too many opportunities to practice and learn more Japanese. Everyone immediately engaged with me in English even though I tried to respond in Japanese, they'd keep on using English. Even people who didn't speak English would still default to not speak at all and gesture or point rather than try to speak Japanese at me.
@@Frag-ileSo they tried to help you in other ways after learning that you don't speak the native language fluently. What horrible people.
I will visit Japan, but not live my whole life there for this particular reason. I already feel like an outcast as it is, more of that would be too annoying for me. And the mindset of the people there does not align with mine at all. Still a cool country tho☺
@@WannabeShady90 Might want to work on your reading comprehension, so far away from anything I actually said.
Western people, especially English speaking ones are very expressive and individualistic. The famous sociologist, Abraham Maslow coined the term "self-actualisation" - hence a lot of western weebs made their "passion" very apparent and show to everyone as part of their identity. A lot of stories, especially coming from the US revealed about how kids and teenagers there are also pretty conformist in certain way, people who watch anime were bullied or treated like an outcast. So the recent explosion of anime is like those "discriminated" group "coming out", and hence the parade-like expressiveness.
In Asia, not only in Japan, everyone watches anime like it is normal. In many places, including Indonesia, we grew up watching Doraemon every Sunday morning. My Japanese client's boss knows "Shingeki no Kyoujin", my boss likes Dragon Ball, the other one proudly displays the entire Shohoku's starting five figurines from "Slam Dunk" in his office, the food delivery guy knows Naruto and discussed with our security guard about the recent Boruto episode. Nobody does ninja run or dress in obnoxious anime accessories, unless they are going to a convention like local comiket. It is just "normal" - nobody needs to be a weeb or otaku to watch anime or read manga. And yes, the school library has manga section, and back then, even my school teacher follows Detective Conan. Outside Japan, we already slowly started to see school teachers as just another human being - it is probably still quite a surprise to discover an upstanding member of society like school teacher to share the kid's hobby. That felt like 1990s Indonesia, when my entire class erupted when my teacher mentioned a popular TV episode like "eeeeh? Teacher watches TV too!!!".
Good point, coming from a similar strict, rule following, conservative and conformist culture (Germany). Where collectivism is favored and high individualism (like it’s glorified in north american and to some extent also in Australia) is seen as obnoxious, annoying, unsocial and people behaving in this way will be ridiculed, publicly avoided and outcasted.
There are many parallels with Japanese society at this topic
And there are many Internet forums (especially on Reddit) full of whining and complaining US-Americans and other people from hyper individualist societies who have moved to germany but can’t handle this social aspect of german society
Ok dude we know you took AP Psychology but don’t lug around Maslow and Humanistic Psych if you don’t have solid grasp on the subject
@@orcatwilight1340I mean he is right about America though. I remember growing up and having to explain "anime is like Japanese cartoons" just so it was simple to explain and kinda getting bullied for it. The weebs hung out under the stairs togather to openly cringe. I opened an anime club and shared being president of the club with my twin but I still wanted to die if an ataku jumped on me with a hug saying "glump" infront of the other students. Lol now all the people kinda being bullies brag about being so into DragonBallz on social media and i wonder if they ever look back. Even pop culture changed alot. Like people rap about animes now. I feel like an OG and I want more weebs so the community grows. 10 years ago you would never see this coming . But the real OG was my friends grandpa that was Into anime so long ago that in order to watch them he had to get them by VCR sent from Japan because there was no other way.
I used to hide my passion for anime because of how people were bullied for liking it. Also I saw people who were too passionate as majorly cringe, so I didnt want to be associated with it. Lol I've come out of the closet about my anime passion since it's become more socially acceptable, however. I've only gotten more into anime and manga now, as well.
One thing that has struck me as ironic is that Japanese society envisions itself as homogeneous and harmonious. However, many of Japan’s most notable historical figures have been nonconformists and individualists who thrived in chaos. Off the top of my head, one is Oda Nobunaga who actually said “Innovation and unconventional thinking pave the path to greatness.” Also, Miyamoto Musashi is renowned for flouting custom when he engaged in his duels. He used totally ruthless tactics to defeat Arima Kihei, the Yoshioka brothers and Sasaki Kojirō. I’m sure Musashi-San received a good helping of passive aggressive animosity from his contemporaries at the time, not that he cared! So, are these guys un-Japanese by modern Japanese standards?
That’s a good point
It's either you be a conformist or a stunning individualist. There's no in between.
Exceptions don’t make the rule
@@AndrewLaReal surely there’s more examples
they prove it.@@AndrewLaReal
That's crazy how Joey and I are like two faces of one coin ! While Joey was being mistreated like a "gaijin", but people treated me like a "japanese"because i looked like a japanese. Everytime i met somebody who doesn't know i'm a foreigner, they talk super fast; soon after i reveal my true nation they start to slowing down 😂
Same happened to me 🤣
I never get the gaijin treatment in Japan because I'm a fair-skinned person of Chinese descent. And back when my Japanese was not usable people would speak really fast to me and get impatient when I took a long time to talk back to them. This was especially the case with people working at JR stations. In department stores they were really nice. Yeah, that's how the world is.
Elderly Japanese people are generally very nice though. They will continue talking to you even after finding out you're not Japanese. The thing is the will talk to you like talking to kids because they think it's easier but you have only learned the polite form in language school. 😆
@@goyam2981 I know a lot japanese elder, there are many open minded people, and they have no problem with foreigner. However there are some people willing to make you feel uncomfortable just for no reason ! That's how it is
haha that's interesting to hear, I like your pfp
As Mexican American Indigenous, we also had great Japanese foreigners living in Mexico, Central America and South American, including in the United States. So shout out to those Japanese Americans and Japanese Hispanics
Latin America is something else
Well yeah, as opposed to Japan we actually *like* japanese people lmao
Brazil even has the biggest Japanese community in the world outside Japan.
Shout out to the following statement: "conquistador in Mexico, got killed by samurai, account recorded by aztec historian"
@@richardwalker2881those were the Spaniards
People in Japan don't usually have beards, except actors, celebrities, etc. You know, like famous youtubers.
That's because most companies do not usually hire Japanese people with beards.
I once saw someone wearing a hoodie and clothes covering all of their body walking in Japan and immediately knew he wasn’t Japanese from the way he was walking with a more energetic stride than the rest of the people around him. So even your gait can be something that shows where you’re from.
Damn 💀
Oh my you guessed a specific stride from 1 out of a million big frkn deal. If you get a 10 out of 10 guess then you are a true genius
You can point out americans really easily from how lazily they dress
I'm half french and japanese and currently living in Japan. After watching this video (which is great btw), I somewhat felt a bit better because I can totally relate to everything that was mentionned. My first language is french because my education was based on french. As for my japanese, even though I have no problem conversing, my writing and reading was only at the elementary level. So I am without a doubt more french than japanese in the inside. But as to the appearance, I look more like an Asian/japanese. So everytime I went to Japan, I was subconsciously trying to act like a Japanese even though my knowledge of the culture was still a bit shallow. I knew afterwards that in fact, by doing so, I was putting more pressure on myself in just trying to save my face and not embarrass myself. The day I decided to stop trying to act like a japanese and started to be more like myself, as a foreigner/french, I felt like the whole world arround me was different, in a positive way. I could casually talk to other people and say that I'm still learning japanese, so that they could understand in which situation I was. No more fear of other people judging me. No more shame in how I acted or how I spoke. It was really relieving in so many ways.
The message that I want to pass on is : Please stop pressuring yourself in changing the way you are just because you want integrate in the society. Please be more proud of yourself, in what you are and in what you do, as long as it doesn't affect your surrounding. And finally, Please respect other people's choises. They might be in the same situation as you ;-).
It depends on your goals. If your plan is to experience Japan as an expat for a few years, GAIJIN mentality is sufficient. You'll be treated as extended guest and people will be praising your Japanese skills (because expectations are so low). But for those who intend to build a life in Japan and be part of Japanese society, GAIJIN mentality and attitude only hinders cultural assimilation and social integration. Obviously, we'll never be saying 日本語上手 to half-kids who were raised and educated in Japan. Fluency in language and social norms will be expected as common sense for a member of society, and frankly it'll be an insult to praise them for knowing what every else knows.
Since you're half-French, let me use an easy French example. You see the African and Middle-eastern Muslim immigrants who fail to integrate into French society? That's how Japanese people see foreigners who are unable to integrate into Japanese society. Both alien and guests. Again, there is no problem if you're living as an expat for a few years.
I’ve been living in Japan for 24 years. My Japanese is native level. When I walk with my daughter people still address us in English, when my Japanese wife walks with my daughter they address her in Japanese. I don’t give a damn when I am alone. Doesn’t hurt a bit. I think the trick is that I turn to talk a lot before the other person has the chance to even say hi. Merry X’mas.
I wouldn't want to be considered Japanese if I'm a foreigner > citizens in Japan and especially if I don't look Asian.
same story with Europe.
I'm from Europe and when I see black people or Turks, Arabs, Indians or other non-white Europeans, they clearly aren't natives of the continent.
it is delusional to think that we are supposed to pretend that skin colour doesn't exist, especially these days when far-leftists actually DO care about race a lot.
but leftists care about race because they are racists against white people and want mass migration to change the demographics of white countries.
no wonder "far-right" governments in Europe are popular.
diversity just for diversity sake is stupid and also dangerous.
the crime rates coming from immigrants and so called "refugees" is something that can't be denied.
even Scandinavian countries have changed their tune when it comes to immigration. Sweden had to learn it's lesson the hard way, if course.
Sweden, the most overrated leftist progressive 🤡 country on the planet.
I would rather have Switzerland or Singapore as a role model than Sweden when it comes to how to run a country with competence.
even Australia is better because the immigration system of Australia is actually good. it is based on the needs of the country and not based on nonsense open borders.
diversity and multiculturalism are a utopian fantasy story for children.
they cannot know, I also live in a different country for over 20 years and have a similar situation, but no issues with that, people just cannot know if I can speak their language good or not just by the looks
U from Spain?
@@localmilfchaser6938 Yeah. It’s written on my passport.
It makes sense for them to speak with you in English if you have a gaijin appearance and are a gaijin. With your wife, she appears japanese. Of course they will speak with your child and her in Japanese, versus with you. In Joey’s case, i feel so sad. He is half and his ethnicity which is fact.. isnt accepted by his own culture. A lot of us biracial kids face this issue. He doesn’t “pass” as Japanese. I hope your daughter doesn’t feel isolated in this society and i wish her the best 🫶🏼
That guy from Cameroon was good at integrating with Japanese people. A lot of people who move don’t become part of that country. So I applaude him and his family
If you move at 4 years old it's kind of hard not to integrate though. I moved from Germany to South Africa when I was 5, knew no English and just sorta had to deal with it. First couple years are hard but eventually I felt more South African than German because your new cultural anchors start to outweigh the old ones.
@@melvinest yes but it also depends on how your parents raise you, if they stick to their old traditions or not
@@ChocoParfaitFraMost parents will do that anyway. We aren’t made up of one thing. Many folks have dual or multiple cultures and present those cultures depending on the environment.
I'm half Japanese too, and my time in Japan/experience with Japanese culture is probably pretty similar to Joey (I actually went to the same Japanese class as him in highschool so we're the same age/from the same area), but I more often than not get treated as Japanese, with situations where people don't even really make the connection that I'm half Japanese until I bring it up happening fairly often as long as they've been talking to me beforehand. This leads to funny situations where I say things like I'm actually in japan to visit family for a bit and I get asked if I moved overseas recently because of work. If they just see me without interacting at all though I think I often get spoken to in English as a default, but once they do see me speaking/how i act i've very rarely felt like an outsider. It's probably because culturally/mentally, and even linguistically I'm more Japanese aligned than Joey, so I think that does play a big part. I guess the main thing is physical appearance may not be the be-all end all like what the video's about.
I can relate to him in the sense that I was born in Hawaii, but grew up in Taiwan. For the first 18 years of my life, I felt as if I was native Taiwanese. I had no problem with the language, culture, way of life, and obsession with Boba Milktea that people would have never batted an eye to think that I know English just as well as a foreigner or the fact that I was an American Citizen. It was when I actually went to the American mainland to attend college that I actually felt foreign. People in my small university would assume that I am not fluent in English and would often assume that I prefer to hang around other Asians and would leave me alone on purpose. In the end, it took 10 years living in America to the point where I feel that people could at least assume I'm ABC or something when I have a chat with them. However, the downside of this transition is that I feel very foreign myself whenever I travel back to Taiwan. I can still speak fluent Mandarin, but there are just some cultural norms or expressions that have changed over the years and I have to try to adjust to that lifestyle once again. It leaves me sometimes wondering which culture I truly belong to nowadays...
In my first trip to Japan I had a short homestay in Shizuoka. The homestay father was a kendoka/teacher. He mentioned a saying "A tomato is a tomato, an apple is an apple, a tomato cannot be an apple." The context at the time wasn't really about being Japanese, but it can be. I'll always be a gaijin, but I'm fine with that.
A donkey born in a stable does not make it a horse.
i think that this doesnt really apply to culture or culture ethnically. because culture is something that is learnt not something someone is born with, and it can change throughout your life. just how some japanese people become too americanised for other japanese people.
A man can't be a woman and vice versa, totally agree. 😂
@@Nadia-nt8gb Sure, it can be learned. The more complex and sophisticated the culture is, the longer it takes. Lifetime.
@@Alexcobra861yes because they’re different species, people are not
Tldr
He doesn't look Japanese
He doesn't act Japanese
He doesnt think Japanese
And he isn't Japanese, simple.
I recently discovered your videos and I am so impressed. As an American, I do know a little about what it's like to live in another country and try really hard to be part of that culture. I lived in Germany for some time and at first it was very daunting, but with time, and educating myself, and also asking people in the German communities in which I lived for help, I found most of them more than willing to advise me. When it was time to leave, I was so sad to be going. I had spent several years, trying my best to not just keep to the 'military wives' circles. To try to help integrate myself more into the culture and have true interactions with my fellow neighbors, I worked at a local German video store (this was in the early 90's). It was the best experience ever. Granted, just as you have pointed out in some of your other videos, the older generations were much more reluctant to work with me or help me, but some, when they really saw that I was doing my absolute best to be a part of our community and adhere to their cultural customs, would indeed be appreciative. It was the best experience of my life.
Thank you so much for educating people, you are doing a wonderful job!
I don't think it's just about physical appearance. The question is would people in Japan recognize a person with a foreign-surname to be Japanese. Japanese government didn't grant natural-born citizenship to children of foreign fathers until 1985. Conversely, children of Japanese emigrants under male lineage were able to maintain Japanese citizenship because they were considered Japanese born abroad. It's why President Fujimori of Peru was a natural-born Japanese citizen. (Japanese Citizenship Law was revised in 1984 and implemented from 1985, banning dual-citizenship after adult-age, but allowing children of foreign fathers to have citizenship.)
In other words, Japanese society historically didn't view children of foreign fathers to be Japanese. And this perspective dates back to ancient practices, like the times when "UJI (氏)" or clans were in use. Japanese society has always been organized and structured around paternal lineage. People inherit surnames, family registry, tombs, land, rituals and customs predominantly from the paternal side. And when a daughter marries, she becomes a member of the husband's family/clan. (To date, you're registered and recognized as a member of your father's family/clan in the KOSEKI, unless you're child of a single-mother, or if you become a MUKO-YOUSHI 婿養子. And it's customary for the wife to adopt the surname of the husband when legally married.)
Thus, if you have a completely foreign surname and a foreign father...it's possible that Japanese people may not recognize you as Japanese. But I doubut people in Japan would consider MUROFUSHI Koji, SAKAI Gohtoku, or SAWAJIRI Erika to be non-Japanese because they have foreign mothers. They have Japanese surnames, upbringing, education, and native fluency in language/culture. (It's also why many Taiwanese, Chinese, and Koreans have chosen Japanese surnames when they naturalize to Japanese citizenship. Having lived among Japanese people, they know that they would be considered as a foreigner if they have a non-Japanese name.)
This is a good point. It's true in basically every country and culture in earth.
not in Japan you can be all those things but if you don’t look Japanese you feel invisible and will be treated differently that’s my observation having lived in Tokyo for about 8 years now
@@Vampgamergeek I believe it will be very similar in most Asian countries
because it's obvious you'll stand out by not looking like the others around you. You will never blend in no matter what. You're biologically unique.
And that's ok bcs you'd learnt to live with it.
@@mikiohirata9627 I feel like more Japanese need to learn that more than I did, everyone tries to be the same, same hair cut Same style same personality, working for a company never for themselves, and then they wonder why they have stress make yourself happy instead of thinking about other people, that part of Japan isn’t healthy
I was born in Japan to a Japanese father and Italian-American mother. I have a Japanese surname. Childhood was rough. We ended up moving to the US when I was 7.
This video is so well written and edited with the real life examples from interviews that back up the claim that would otherwise just be opinions.
I do agree. I have a lot of friends who studied abroad and moved abroad in high school or college, and despite being completely Japanese, they get mistaken for being foreigners based on mannerisms or fashion. Even my boyfriend, who has never even traveled abroad, doesn’t speak English, has lived in Kyoto his whole life, and is ethnically fully Japanese, he still gets confused as a foreigner when he’s with me because my foreignness almost rubs off onto him in the perception of other Japanese people. Sometimes, this is frustrating because staff will speak to him exclusively in English or give him English menus, and he gets flustered, unable to read/understand them. In fact, just this week, we went to his family bounenkai, and as soon as I, a foreigner, stepped into the restaurant behind my boyfriend, the staff tried to push us out, telling us it was a reserved event in broken English until my boyfriend’s father spotted us and saved us. But the thing is, it isn’t an intentional thing; it’s more that Japanese tend to have very strong views of what is and isn’t “Japanese,” and it can be very easy to cross the line in their eyes from “Japanese” to “foreign.” I think it’s extremely different from the American view of nationality/race, so it’s sometimes hard to navigate because it can lead you to have a separated foreign identity, both for immigrants and Japanese natives.
It’s the same in America…in fact it’s much worse…clearly you have never been in the black American community nor have you met a “true American”.
Honestly living in Japan I don't want to be accepted as Japanese, I want to be accepted as myself. I think a lot also has to do of the perception of why you've come to Japan. I'm here as an engineer and get treated very well despite my broken language skills. My opinion is that if you are perceived to be helping Japanese society people will treat you very well. But that could be biased by the fact the company I work for has a lot of prestige associated with it.
I will always be gaijin, but I feel like most people go out of their way to treat me better because of it. To be honest as an Irish American, I never get treated as Irish in Ireland. These issues are not unique to Japanese society, but the human condition.
Because you're not Irish and will never be Irish. You're an American. If 150 or so years ago a bunch of Americans moved to Mongolia and their descendants went to America and didn't act American no one would accept them as American.
This isn't just a japanese thing. Anyone of mixed race isn't considered as either of the parents races. I'm mixed myself and I'm never truly accepted by either races.
It's probably similar to other South East Asia countries - your exterior look defined if you are foreign or not. Also, tattoos usually mean "bad people" universally nearly in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia. We Asians can even distinguish between Chinese, Japanese, Hong Kong, Taiwanese, Korean, etc among the group.
I agree that Joey looks very much like foreigner non-Japanese, not even half/quarter-Japanese.
Joey doesn't look like a 'classic' half Japanese person imo... Like almost asian but with western undertones (like how Hiding in my room looks)
He doesn't look like most asian either. tbh even without beard he doesn't look like asian.
In Thailand tattoo is part of our culture and beliefs.
The only exception is gang tats.
In my personal experience, it’s not about accent or physical appearance, it’s much more about body language. My Japanese is not good but I was raised by my Japanese grandmother until I was 6 or 7, and my relatives say I got all her mannerisms, the way of speaking to people. I spent some time in Japan and even though I couldn’t communicate very well, people would try and talk to me instead of my relatives that are also of Japanese descent. I became kind of a joke in my family because I am the worst to speak Japanese, but Japanese people would ignore them and insist in talking to me. The same happened at stores and restaurants, with complete strangers. I sincerely believe it’s because of the familiarity I somehow project with my body language.
I think you're right. I'm half Japanese and have a very similar background to Joey (we even went to the same Japanese class in highschool for a bit), but I tend to get treated as Japanese in Japan more often than not. I think appearance wise I look equally foreign as Joey, but I'd say I'm more mentally/culturally/and at least verbal linguistically Japanese than Joey (his written Japanese/reading is amazing because of his hard work which is awesome). If I get the chance to talk to people in our first interaction most people don't even notice I'm half Japanese until I point it out, which leads to interesting things like them asking if I'm just living overseas for work.
@@kure_kle Thank you for sharing your personal experience, I really appreciate it. Although I’m not fluent in Japanese like you, I can relate to your feelings of belonging to a certain culture despite having a different background.
I completely agree. When you're in Japan, you'll probably be able to identify locals from visitors too. You'll sense something is slightly off and different from the natives. I'm sure you've heard that Japanese use a lot of non-verbal communication, or it's a high-context language/culture. We're constantly identifying people by body language, mannerism, behavior, and even fashion (which is a language on its own). I've heard that immigration and police officers can often spot an (Asian) foreigner just by how people walk and dress.
I watched a Japanese TH-camr living in Shanghai. She was able to identify a fellow Japanese expat just by looking. I think the word in Japanese is 雰囲気.
People will treat you based on how you act and present yourself. And if you act similar to Japanese people then of course they will recognize it and treat you as such. It happens with foreign too.
I disagree.
Joey has been living in Japan for a long time so you could assume he's also picked up this body language, yet he is still treated the way he is.
I feel like Joey is the ultimate under cover westerner in Japan spilling all the tea on everything we gaijin would never know about otherwise.
To me the "ostracizion" treatment seems more like something you would only really get annoyed at over a long period of time. It's as if you're being treated as a commodity and have to be ready to explain your situation everytime you have an interaction. Something like that doesn't bother one self for the first few 10, or even 100 times, but after years of living there I can see it becoming quite annoying. Like, why is that just because you don't fit the script that the duty is somehow on you to explain your role in the script every single time. I think as a westerner you can get irritated thinking to yourself that dropping the script all together would just be better. Since from a westerners point of view doing so seems quite easy, it can sometimes feel as though everyone else is being selfish/unwelcoming forcing themselves on you, expecting conformity without real reason.
But Joey also knows what country he is living in and I also agree that one should adapt to the culture they're surrounded by and not expect everyone else to change. I just wanted to explain how one might come to feel that way.
True
Well said
Incredibly informative, good job.
Very insightful stuff, really enjoyed listening!
I’m from Hawaii, I have a few friends that are fluent in Japanese because their grandparents/parents taught them. It also helped that one of my friends would go to Japan for summer school from a young age. When my friends that can speak fluently visits Japan it seems that they are accepted as Japanese, however that could also be because they look full Japanese or of the Hawaii culture of being laid back. I think even though Hawaii is apart of the United States, we have a lot of roots from Japan and other Asian cultures because of its rich history of being a “melting pot” of cultures
It's weird, I went to Japan, fully expecting to be treated as a foreigner since I'm half-Japanese as well. But it didn't really feel that way, sure I got people staring at me, but it didn't really feel like I was being treated as a foreigner.
I think it depends on the generation, Younger people might be more open minded
@@HELLO_KOROIt's more so people will treat you based on the way that you act and present yourself.
Same here, the first few days of me being in Japan I was treated pretty differently, but the longer I stayed and conformed the more they respected me.
Amazing content as always. Merry Christmas!!!
great video! i just found your channel and i really like your content, and i hope you continue to make great videos.
Amazing Video! i think the perfect end to this trash taste saga of your videos is to be an actual guest in the podcast!
Adults (above 23?) that are into anime and express this in their identity through clothes etc. are also considered weird here in Europe. A lot of people will think they are socially incompetent, unemployed and may even fear them around children.
The people that are surprised by this happening in Japan, probably didn't understand why this happened where they originally lived either.
I visited Seul once and while I was there I walked past a white girl in cheap cosplay like clothes on the street. I don't usually identify as white or a westerner, but at that moment I did, and I was deeply embarrassed.
Honestly who should be more embarrassed, the girl minding her own business or the dude staring her down and judging her for looking vaguely goofy?
@@himbo2335 You only can feel embarrassed if you have internalized to feel the thing you do is wrong, otherwise it wouldn’t bother you or you would even thriving from other peoples attention.
But the surrounding society is also allowed to be judgmental of Individuums if they behave nonconformistic to the current cultural and social norm of the society they (chose to) live in, resulting in sticking out like a sore thumb but instead of adapting, they prefer to complain and whine that the majority/society has to adapt and cater to them and not the other way around
@@himbo2335 I'm just pointing out that Europeans and Japanese people view Otaku looking people in pretty much the same way.
@@himbo2335 The average campaigner of individualism, the choose to import their manner of dress and culture instead of conforming to the majority as one should. Narcissist.
what country are you from? Anime is pretty common in europe nowadays and in big cities you find a bunch of people expressing themselves though fashion.
Im starting to like your content as I can listen to them like a podcast while at work. Have to admit I was a bit held back by your accent but I got used to it the more I watched/listened to your videos. Keep up the good work! +1 sub
I learn a lot about Japan through your videos, Nobita. Thank you!
Ethnically, I am half Japanese with a Japanese surname, but culturally and nationally, I am American (4th generation on my dad’s side). Living in Japan for the past year has helped me understand my identities more and come to peace with not being Japanese enough. It’s not a bad thing imo but it does make things awkward when trying to communicate since I am not very good with Japanese despite looking Japanese.
Even though I am not Japanese, I am half Korean and the first language I ever learned was Korean, people in Korea still treat me like I'm a foreigner impersonating a Korean person like I'm some obsessed K-pop stan (so this vid kinda hits close to home). Whenever I join in a conversation where the people are speaking Korean they suddenly switch to a easier, dumbed down version of korean or outright switch to english (or "Konglish"), even though I feel like my Korean if perfectly fine (shoutout to my mom for never giving up on my Korean) and I spent a majority of my childhood with Korean people ;-;. I've also gotten comments that it "creeps people out" when I speak Korean, because I've got such a western face. I sometimes wish I was born fully Korean or fully something else so that I can speak my mother tongue without "making people uncomfortable", but what can I do lmao.
Great analysis, thank you!
Many Japanese DO bring things up and question things----just not in public or politics. Ask a few parents privately about how schools are doing. Ask them about their job supporting them as parents. You catch them on the right day and you'll get an earful.
I'm originally from the UK but my wife is Chinese. I speak enough to get by but can struggle a bit in group conversations with lots of people talking at once. While you do get comments like "哇，你说的中文真好!" (Wow, you speak Chinese really well) for even basic communication, my experience is most people are happy simply because they can communicate with you. It isn't very common for foreigners to put in the time and effort to really learn such a different language so of course they are surprised. So am I when I find another foreigner who speaks Chinese well!
I think its strange to many foreigners because in our countries regardless of your ethnic or national origins, if you live long enough in a country or place, you’re counted as part of it. Think like how the USA and Mexico are super ethnically diverse. If someone is Asian - even with racists here in our countries - but born here, immigrates here, or speaks the language enough (not fluent but just enough) you are one of us. We dont say “Oh you’re Japanese in origin? You can never be X!”.
Think it also helps that for all the racist history that built western countries is that we had enough immigration & high populations of forcibly brought people. Unlike Japan which is so xenophobic to any different ethnic groups even attempting to live in their country.
On paper they are American/Canadian etc., but most socially struggle to fit in. Full assimilation is a myth because physically you'll always be distinguishable.
@@kairos_fluent they're still American/Canadian/etc. And that's another thing, we don't believe in "assimilation". That's some 1984 shit right there. We take pride in that our people can come in all shapes and sizes. Anyone can be an American. Japan seems bizarrely fixated on making sure everyone isn't Japanese even if they were born and raised several generations there.
@@JurassicLion2049 In the west, sure, but this isn't the case in places like Russia, Ukraine, Serbia, etc. That "1984 shit" is the norm in the rest of the world. My best friend is Hungarian and no one there considers him Hungarian because he doesn't act like a Hungarian.
Based on what I’ve seen and heard during 13 years living in Japan, there’s 2 requirements “to be Japanese”:
1. You must “look” Japanese.
2. Your Japanese must NOT have a foreign accent. (So local accents like from Yamanashi, Aomori etc are ok).
So it doesn’t matter if you were born and raised in Japan, with one Japanese parent+one foreigner. Or if both your parents are Japanese. You need to meet those requirements.
About the podcast scenes seen in this video: I always think they live in a parallel different Japan of where I live (I’ve lived in three different prefectures, urban and rural areas so I have met diversity): my Japanese isn’t good but unlike those podcasters I never get asked “Nihongo daijobu?? “ unless I’m with a group of foreigners so the staff think we are tourists. I’m very deep into the music scene (Metal and punk) and I wear leather clothes and bullet belts so you could argue I could look like a delinquent or a little bit intimidating, yet unlike those podcasters, I’ve never been detained or asked questions by the police while wearing those clothes, in the contrary, I’ve been interrogated while commuting to work so while wearing casual or even formal clothes. (A total of 3 times in 13 years). But that’s my experience, so totally anecdotal and may not reflect the reality of most.
I have noticed that the trash taste guys especially joey followed by connor have become in the last 3 year since starting the podcast (accompanied with moving to Japan) more and more negative opinionated, whining/complaining and hyper critical of Japanese social and cultural norms but instead of trying to adapt to their chosen surrounding they didn’t change anything and remain to stay in their gajin bubble (Joey has worked in a Japanese company (i think he didn’t work there anymore) but his entire circle of friends and his partner are only foreigners (besides their podcast producer Meilyne which have lived many years in the US) who have moved to tokyo in the last 8 years)
@@PPfilmemacher Kinda why I've been watching more of Chris's stuff as of late as Joey and Connor are becomeing more out of touch as they get richer and Connor is also staring to parot alot of the holier than thou aditude alot of his LA streamer friends have. You can see it on some of the more recent episodes Garnt and some of the guests seem uncomfortable or anyoied with their aditude as they're geting big egos from their sucess. They dont seem respectful of where they are liveing or the sucess their fans have given them. Abroad in Japan meanwhile actualy does interact with actual Japan and not just the GeeksPlus gang. I don't expect trash taste to last for more than another three years as the cracks are starting to form and I think Joey is going to be hit with a very cold reality the day Grant and Sydney are haveing kids and would rather them grow up in Thailand or the USA instead of going to school in a nation who's infamously known for an oppressive school system, and Connor decides to move to LA to do more Colabs with his streaming buddies what is he going to have left? His mediocre fashion brand that only sells because of it's comection to trash tase and a very quickly shrinking group of forigen youtubers living in a country despite haveing anssestory in he doesnt want to adapt to it.
its because these people cant assimilate into japanese culture. they want to bend the culture around them and their little gaijin circle, no shit they wont be fully accepted. if you act like foreigners you will be treated like foreigners its such a damn simple thing. it's the case for every damn country out there and these people dont get it
You guys are extremely parasocial, just weird
@@PPfilmemacher Most expats are like that lol. That's why they're frowned upon
As a Taiwanese half Japanese I didn't get the gaijin treatment since well I don't look like foreigner (sometime people thought im mexican but well that's different story) but I do got the opposite of it, I do speak japanese but I never learn how to speak formally and I only got like elementry school level vocabulary, so it get real awkward when people talk to me, my family always say I talk like Japanese trying to act like not knowing Japanese.
Great video and well explained! There is something like if you have gone through same kind of school system or worked in the same kind of work environment and learned what is acceptable.. and you know unwritten rules.. or how you need to behave in certain kind of situation...
According to interviews, if you lived all your life in Japan as half-Japanese (white),
and still have people talking behind you about how you'll never be "true" Japanese....
Honne and tatemae makes things extremely hard too.
you put a lot of effort in this video, good job!
Great video, as always, thanks for sharing.
As a Hungarian living in the United Kingdom, I have experienced most of these phenomenons shown in the video - living in a different culture to what I grew up in. The only difference is that Japan and Japanese culture is more unique and more different than any other country, so the gap is bigger.
Those issues are not just in Japan. I was born in Mexico and grew up in the US I'm a US citizen and many people think I'm not American. While older Hispanics/Latinos do not think I'm Mexican or Mexican enough. Personally it never affected me or needed a I belong here card from strangers.
How well do you speak Spanish ?
@@kairos_fluent Pretty normal. I don't struggle communicating with people. Like Many Latinos in the US we tent to throw many Spanglish words. Like open the trunk. the correct way would be "abre la cajuela" but many say "abre la trunka".
@@josemedina1983 Oh I see. Is your accent in Spanish different from local Mexicans ?
@@kairos_fluent Los Angeles is so diverse that you get used to many Latino accents like Guatemalan, Salvadorian, Peruvian the list goes on, Personally my brain is not programed to care much about Hispanic accents. I just speak to them as I would speak to you or anyone just in Spanish.
I mean, it's the same in the USA. Been living here for 21 years, working, paying taxes, Bachelor's degree and citizenchip.. I will die here.. and they still see me as a foreigner.
Probably because you didn’t grow up here, or didn’t really socialize here. If you look different from the average American and have an accent you probably will still be seen as a foreigner, but atleast you’d be more accepted here compared to an American living in Japan
This was a really interesting take. I just started learning the Japanese language, want to visit, and maybe live there one day. So learning these social perceptions and cultural views feels very important to me. Thanks for the great video.
I think we should also praise TJR for learning English and making videos for us, Westerners, in English from a Japanese perspective, so thank you for your effort
Great video. I feel like beards are trending in Japan though. I have definitely seen more and more Japanese with beards in the past couple of years.
I love hearing about this topic about other countries! I actually think it's sad when people try to fit in to something that does not accept them. Honestly, people respect you more when you stand alone, especially when you don't actually try to fit into a particular group. This is evident in the TH-camr that he mentioned in The Japan Reporter's video. I will say, that most people and myself, prefer when a country is more welcoming and hospitable towards foreigners and actually try to include them in their circle, even calling them as one of their own eventually. Good examples are Malasia, Palestine, Turkey, certain parts of Africa, and certain parts of America. Its no coincidence that these are extraverted/highly social countries, while Japan and Korea are more on the introverted/low social side when it comes to the people's overall personality and social structure. Overall, people should know what to expect when living or revisiting a country, so that they can be at peace with their decision and how they carry themselves in front of others.
True
This channel is awesome.
You're really level-headed and down-to-earth. You totally understand and have a realistic outlook on the perspectives of both the foreigners and Japanese.
You just understand everything and see the stuff that is "invisible" to most 😁
It took me a couple trip there to realize just how the otaku thing works. It's seem like it's okay to be an otaku, but only in specific designated spaces. Nobody will think that your anime shirt is weird if you're in Akihabara or at Comiket, but almost nobody wears one to the grocery store. This is a little different from the American geek who might do something like have a model X-wing in his office without getting much of a reaction.
Yet he does not look like the typical Japanese unless we count The Ainu.
Well he's half so it makes sense
@@martelo589 He's half but doesnt look japanese at all. When I first heard of him, i thought he was middle eastern or indian
@@Blazetheuserngl... I thought the same
@@martelo589 A donkey born in a stable does not make it a horse.
@@Alexcobra861 That quote has nothing to do with what I said lol are you trying to sound smart?
To put it in another light; I speak such fluent English with an American accent both people living in the UK and America think I am American. My mother tongue is Norwegian; through the exposure of American entertainment such as TV and video games I learned not just how to speak it but to flip between it at a needle-drop. The only times you can discern the differences is when I am either:
A. Drunk.
B. Really tired.
It is fully possible to learn another language to such a degree you become, in a way, superior? It is so important to you that you will study it for hours, as I have, to master it. One thing is having an ear for language, it is something else to really "imitate" it.
Yes I wrote this drunk.
Generally the problem is that you speak it too well. To pass as a native it's not just the language you need to master, it's the dialect; here in the UK we can usually identify precisely where a native is from, usually to within a few miles, by their accent and speech mannerisms. Most foreigners are therefore identified as soon as they start speaking, even if they happen to be native English speakers, simply because we can't place the accent (and unless it conforms to the stereotypical Australian or South African accent, our default assumption tends to be American. Much to the chagrin of the Canadians)
Been living in Japan for 4 years. Absolutely love it! I speak Japanese and almost never get 'nihongo jouzu'. I have no idea why this is, I certainly don't think I am the best Japanese speaker, but I just talk and say what I need to say. I have no issue with not being accepted as Japanese because I am not Japanese, I am Australian, that is part of my personality. I hope to continue to live here for the rest of my life and make many more Japanese friends that I can laugh and joke with.
It's more like an Australian born in Japan that speaks Japanese and English, then goes to Australia where they aren't treated as an Australian but as a foreigner.
Joey may be half but he knows Japanese better than the average Japanese person.
I'm also half but my Japanese isn't the best so it doesn't offend me as much cause I know I lack. But if I did know more but got treated as lesser, it makes sense.
What do you do in Japan out of curiosity and what’s it like living there?
@@wckoshka8141 I work in app development. I have several Japanese coworkers and several English speaking coworkers. It's just like living in any other country except the people are all really respectful of boundaries and you really have to make an effort to make new friends. The conveniences of living here, including the amazing transport system that can take you anywhere in the country in just a few hours farrr outweighs anything negative.
@@zaimanity8893 Unless you've received Japanese education, it would be impossible to know more Japanese than a native. You would not have studied 古文 and 漢文 like a native. いとをかし would not make any sense unless you have. You would not know what ハ行点呼 is, who 阿倍仲麻呂 was and his famous poem in 百人一首. You would not get the historical and cultural references and its significance to Japanese language, literature, or culture. Just take a look at any of the highschool or university entrance exams. That is the material native-speakers are tested on. Joey is really good, but he's not a native speaker because he wasn't educated in Japan.
@@elkq0 That's because British society has accepted them. In both countries the true authority is society. Your example only prives the point
it SORT OF SEEMS like even if your Japanese by birth, if you spend a few years away, you'll still be treated as an outsider because you have more than one perspective now.
That's to be expected, because in a country that has a different ethnicity as the person that moves there; its to be expected they assume you are a foreigner. Japan isn't an immigration country (that has a wide variety of people) like the US, Canada or Australia.
Heck, the USA was LITERALLY started by British immigrants.
I just want to add onto how weebs are precieved here in the U.S. For context, I'm a 20 year old university student and these days, being a weeb or a anime fan would be considered as something """"normal""""" or "Okay" now that anime has became mainstream-- BUT that wasn't always the case. Back in my elementary and middle school days (early 2000s and mid 2010's), people would make fun of you if they found out that you were a anime fan/weeb simply because it's nerdy or weird. I was afraid of being bullied for it so I didn't openly admit to people that I was into anime.
So yes, back then, being a weeb was weird and you can get bullied or made fun of for it. Nowadays, people wouldn't care or at least, they care less now.
great video!
I'm 18 and live in The United States and I was intreguied by what you said about anime. I used to really love a lot of isekai anime as a kid, but I was proud of the fact that I watched anime, not scared of being judged. when I told my friends I watched anime they said "cool! and thought nothing of it, or I would even make friends because of it. Over here, in my experiance, anime has become not only more mainstream, but also there is a lot less assumptions made about people who watch it (at least within the younger generations). Despite the fact that a lot of anime can be quite sexual, and some anime have characters that are downright degenerates, here in the US anime is smiled upon as just another form of storytelling. Because in the US I feel like we recognize that there are other medums of storytelling with sexual content, and fanbases of degenerate people. It's not just confined to anime. Just my thoughts! :)
Having lived in Japan for four years, I'll admit my language skills are crap (I'm old, but working at it). But, I'd rather live here than back home. I'll always be a second class citizen, but I don't have to deal with all the shit. Everyone has treated me well, I've made great friends, and I feel at peace. When I first went back to the United States after living here, everybody asked me about culture shock. I told them I didn't feel that, I only felt culture shock after visiting home, because the United States doesn't have one. In Japan there is a common culture, a history, good or bad, that ties people together. In the US we are the 'Melting Pot', which is cool because you can meet so many people, and experience things outside your bubble. However, we don't have that shared thread that binds us. That is why you see so much strife in the US today.
In the name of "diversity." It is not a strength, but a destruction. 👹
As a white country, we were the strongest. Communism has destroyed, much.
"melting pot" is such bs. people coexist in the us by throwing away culture(especially in the case of my fellow asians, until the kpop industry boom a while ago they seemed to be even fuckin embarrassed of being asian and try to imitate white/black people as best as they could to appeal to them, like just look at "asian baby girls" lol) in the name of efficiency of pursuing wealth and status, that's capitalism for you. even family ties are weak. every man for himself. that's why it's all going downhill. after living here for a few years literally the only positive thing i can say is "it's easy to make money". but it's just as easy to fall to rock bottom, that's why this society works the way it does, that's why people are at each other's throats. i'm moving back to my country once my finances are settled, not only for my safety but also to live in a place with a genuine culture once more. i don't feel human here.
i used to have a good impression of the US. very good in fact since my parents told me great stories from their time here a few decades ago. of course as i grew up i came to know the reality of it, but it wasn't until work took me here that i realized how BAD it really is. for reference i've lived in texas and now i reside in northern california.
Its the same here in Britain, only the people here intend to destroy our own culture and become the cultural melting pot like the States. We are quite literally being overrun, London is no longer majority British.
My mom and I are both Japanese, but we live in America. I was told “Your Japanese very good” by a worker in Japan when we were visiting.
This is also the same in many non-caucasian countries I feel, in my country you can be fluent in the language, have citizenhip. And be completely immersed in the culture, but people will still look at you as an outsider to some degree.
You really just have accept it as yoh say and make the best of the situation, and at worst you'll just be regarded as an eccentric, fun foreigner
i’m half japanese and i think it’s a complicated issue because as much as i love living here and it feels like my home it can be upsetting sometimes when i’m treated like im not japanese when i am
What is your personal opinion on the matter tho? I think it is very clear WHY he is not considered japanese, but do you think it should stay like that? Many things are part of japanese culture and i don’t think many people want to change it, like bowing for example. But things like mysogny or xenophobia are not culture, they hurt people and it’s not just a western trend to do something against it. That is my opinion; what is your opinion?
Also: as a third Culture child i feel a lot of these problems myself, i am mixed Nigerian and german and it truly feels like I don’t belong anywhere. I think globalization has a lot of problems, but people sharing culture isn’t one of them it’s just unfortunate that people want to label you sooo badly as one thing or another. It hurts if you feel like you are no where welcome/at home.
I am required to speak several languages because of my job. When I travel abroad, the absolute shock on people's faces when i respond properly in their languages is a mix of amazement and slight disgust. I got the best and worst responses in Japan. I also understand that as an American, countries where nationality, ethnicity, culture, and language are completely intertwined do not have organic head space for certain kinds of diversity. ....small interactions have won people over. I'll take that.
5:34
My Japanese friend whom I met in the EU grew his facial hair even more than myself, as he depicts its a cool and manly.
He has been having it for 4 years now after we first met (I had this heavy beard at the time)
Japan is not unique in not seeing long term foreigners as "natives". It is also a thing here in Denmark, where people do speak english to you, if you do not speak perfect Danish or look foreign. Denmark is very culturally different from Japan, very informal in many ways. People will be known as the "Frenchman" or wherever they are from the rest of their lives, if living here (we do say people's name to eachother, but referring to a person another person might not know, we do that). The people who might have an issue with this are often people from former British colonies or Americans, while other nationalities do accept it as a part of their identity here.
The major difference between Japan and Denmark is probably is that you do not need to be able to interact in the native language at all to get around, everybody here can speak english, often pretty well. Being a foreigner, or a returnee from another place will also be noticed. It is not a bad thing here, but more like an assumption, that you know more about that place, than a native do.
I think every language is to some degree associated with race.
I'm Russian, so my language is spoken by a lot of different "white" and "Asian" ethnic groups, but if i saw an African fluently speaking it, i'd still do a double take.
Even in English you might get weird looks if your accent doesn't match your appearance ("you talk white").
Japanese just happens to be spoken mostly by a very specific kind of Asian.
This is an interesting topic, especially because I had a bit of the opposite experience.
I'm Japanese American born and raised in the US. I lived in Japan for a few years out of college but my Japanese was very much kitchen Japanese.
The first few years of living there was tough because despite looking 100% Japanese, I was not able to communicate in the same way so at least initially people thought I was impolite or too casual and it was off putting to many. So many of the expectations were higher for me which motivated me to become better in the language.
I remember a time in the office when another American joined our team and was like, "こんにちは” and everyone praised him while with my somewhat カタコト Japanese was made fun of kind of sucked when we both essentially had the same background.
A lot of people perceived as Gaijin that speak fluently complain that Japanese praise you for being able to speak Japanese, but the opposite is constantly being put down because you don't/can't. i.e. 何でちゃんと喋れないんだ？
I want Joey to react to this please~ anyways, I love this video..keep it up!!
I’m half. I speak Japanese and English. I have to be honest, I sometimes pretend I hardly know any Japanese so I can get away with being an aloof foreigner.
I'm Japanese living in the states and do the same thing when things get tiresome.
@@chiedawsonI'm Mexican American and I just tell people to fuck off 😅
I mean this can apply to anyone in any country, the opinion of complete strangers who have nothing to do with your life shouldn’t matter anyways because the people you surround yourself ie. your family and friends with will accept you and will treat you as their own regardless of where you were born what languages you speak or any other factors
He doesn't look Japanese and he hangs around actual gaijins so people who see him randomly in public would hear him speaking English a lot. I believe it's these two factors that make Joey feel alienated despite being Japanese.
If I ever move to Japan, I don't quite care if people arround me did not considered as Japanese.
I kinda sick and tired with the demand and expectation from the people around me in the current community that I have right now. Something that completely not my problem, it can be my problem if they think so.
I think, setting my own boundary is important.
I'm not a japanese, and never be will, even if I got my citizenship.I just a gaijin with japan citizenship, that's all.
The point is, never expecting them to accept you as a Japanese. But if they do, be grateful if you really want them to accept you.
If not, just be nice to each other.
In the end, if they never force you to eat their shit when they did not accept you, you have no reason hate them.
Just mind your own business, less stress you will have.
I am a Thai but have traveled to Japan quite a lot of times, and tend to observe the Mannerism and Logic behind the Japanese actions and reactions whenever I have to interact with them. Most of the time, having Asian features on the outside gives me the benefit to kinda blending in with the group and people's first reaction tends to assume I am just another Japanese. I don’t know but since the first time I went to Japan long ago without any prior Knowledge and deep understanding of their culture, I kinda got hunches from the inside and intuitively know how to act accordingly. Maybe deep down as a Thai, whose values and deep social norms are not far away from the Japanese, can adapt to the expectations of the society not that difficult. We might act differently on the outside according to various situations but I kinda sense that the actions stem from the same values and logic.
Coming back to Joey, I have watched his many interviews with the Japanese in a “Japanese environment”, I am not saying I am an expert on body language or anything but most of the time he always gives me a “non-Japanese” person who happens to speak a very good Japanese. His Mannerisms are kinda off. He may know some of the social rules and social etiquette of the Japanese but his way of speaking or interactions always slip off and looks very much like a foreigner. (His interview with the ex-Yakuza is the best example of this)
On the contrary, Garnt his fellow TH-camr, who I just found out not long ago is Thai but grew up in GB. When speaking in English, obviously his mannerisms, speech patterns, and everything is very British or in my Thai eyes, “very Western-like”. But once he switches to Thai and interacts with the Thais. His mannerisms and body language become Thai very naturally. He maybe has glimpses of wrong intonations or weird pronunciation once in a while but overall it appears he is just another Thai who just happens to have not had a chance to use the Thai language for a long time. Not just a foreigner who speaks a very good Thai.
As for Thai, we also have this concept of “outsider” especially for people from different cultures with which we are not familiar (basically any cultures that are not from East Asia). No matter how good your language (which is almost impossible for a non-Thai to reach a native level) or your understanding of the social nuances. You will always be the Foreigner. The reaction from the Thai might give off a relaxed or easygoing vibe but deep down we are secretly very judgmental. I am not sure whether this is a sign of xenophobia or not but we are not discriminating against foreigners (at least most people from the newer generations) but acknowledging that people from different cultures are just different.
Thai and Japanese mannerism are very different. Don't know what you are talking about.
We throw litters everywhere where Japanese are way too clean to not shame themselves.
We call our partner fat and get agitated very quickly while Japanese are very soft no matter how upset or happy they are.
Thailand is very expressive. Acting shy when being approached, angry and aggressive af when threatened or feel something like they have been wrong or seeing something as wrong. Japanese.....at best just whine and shout mostly.
Japanese gives alot of silent treatment while Thai gives alot of passive-aggressive treatment directly.
Japanese see you as outsiders, Thais will most likely want to enjoy and entertain you unless those Thais are ultra-nationalists.
Respectfully, please put a message this long in to separated paragraphs next time. I wanted to read, but it's difficult when it's all slumped together in a big wall of text.
Dude japanese people act just like any other asians. The difference between other asians is very subtle
Likewise white people or european decent almost act the same wherever part of the world they are. Theyre all very individualistic and opinionated.
In the States, people (I'd say particularly younger generations) don't want to blend in. It's actually cool to have a nerdy obsession and to show off your niche interests. Confidence in showing off one's "personality" and getting attention (positive or negative) is generally seen as an overall good thing. Americans don't typically have the societal judgment hangups that people in Japan (and I'd say also in a lot of Northeast Asia) typically do when it comes to standing out in a crowd. Joey is multicultural, and a lot of his own views are reflected in his upbringing and family life. I'd say that it only takes a bit of an outsider's perspective to see the cracks in a society's supposed perfect image. I'm a Chinese American who was born and raised in a predominantly white suburban community. People treated us well but at the same time our family felt like perpetual foreigners (my parents had been living in the US since the 1960s). I think ethnic and cultural diversity do a lot to shake the very foundation that many societies base their institutions on, and if you don't grow up with much social diversity (this doesn't just include racial or ethnic diversity, but also diversity in terms of socioeconomic class, educational background, and gender and sexuality), then you will find human beings who are only slightly different from the norm to be a real threat to your country because of all the negative stereotypes and propaganda against them.
I think you can find the same thing almost everywhere. Certainly in the UK many have such attitudes, the only difference is, perhaps, some brits are more reserved about displaying their underlying attitudes. That said, I've lived in several regions of the UK where I've been given the full-on gaijin treatment because wasn't born in that exact locality. In my experience it takes a special kind of human being to be able to truly look past all the superficial differences, and see our common humanity. Usually I've found that quality in people who have some level of awareness of mystical spirituality... but perhaps even that isn't definitive. TLDR Don't be too critical of Japanese attitudes, because when all is said and done labeling me as a gaijin would only be the truth. The best I could hope for is to aim to be someone who lived my differences in a way that didn't needlessly upset too many around me. In a real sense we are all different, and we are also all the same. We just all do our being the sameness slightly differently.
I'm also from the UK!
Somali British
The situation is hardly the same. Arabs and Africans aren't attempting to conform to the local culture friend, they're importing their own. I share no "common humanity" with Muslims.
Come to Philipine man
I'm not a pinoy neither do I live in Philipine but I speak on their behalves and I can assure you that you'll always be welcome here.
It's fine if you can't be Takumi or Nakamoto in Japan but here you can be Joey, Fabricio or Augusto whatever you want it doesn't matter cause we ain't gonna reject let alone to sell one of our own...
Another great video. One thing I would add about critiquing certain aspects of the culture, is that often only someone with no emotional connection to a particular culture can look with a disconnected and impartial viewpoint. I'm not suggesting that that's the case with Joey specifically, but in any culture globally often people from within the culture itself cannot objectively analyze it due to their inherent biases.
This can also become an excuse by people to bash a culture. So in cases where someone truly admires a culture and is looking for ways to improve it further, I think that an external viewpoint can be very useful. As a perfect example there are plenty of Americans that would agree with critiques of our culture from outside, while many others would get angry and say no no we're perfect and we shouldn't be critiqued. That second group is not being very realistic but they would tend to be the majority.
I think it's more complicated than people make it out to be.
People make these generalisations, but I think it's because they're missing something. For example, a first reaction I get from Japanese people isn't "Nihongo jouzu" it's "Nihon de sunde imasu ka?" Because I look like someone who has a job. I'm sure Joey has a more robust experience than I do, but... don't buy into the popular myths.
He's saying if you dress like a Japanese business man, people will ask if you live in Japan, and assume you have some language skills.
Where as if you dress casual (like Joey) they rightfully assume you're a tourist and will be surprised by any Japanese language ability.
@@rokko_hates_japan Exactly. It's much more about how you comport yourself, not your ethnic background, except for the more xenophobic people. That's what was shown with regards to the several black and brazilian and indian et al. people that do get treated as Japanese, because they comport themselves as such, while Joey is much more like a stereotypical Gaijin.
@@KainYusanagi It's almost entirely about ethnic background; that's why they ask "how long" has someone lived in Japan, and not "where were they born in Japan".
@@ArchOfficial They ask that because in 99% of cases, they weren't born IN Japan, but rather immigrated later, be it as a young child or otherwise. This is because Japan is very ethnically homogenous still, with the subgroups like the Ainu and the Ryukyuans being just that- subgroups, as was explained in the video. That doesn't change that these people can naturalize and become Japanese culturally, which is what matters for almost all interactions, and why people like Joey get see as gaijin and snubbed for it, even though ethnically he's half-Japanese: Because he doesn't carry any of the ethos, any of the culture, of Japan proper. That "Yamato Spirit". These people, in comparison, do.
@@KainYusanagi What is the "ethos, culture, Japan proper" that native Japanese have that Joey doesn't? Do all native Japanese have it?
I am Chinese, but many Chinese and Japanese I’ve met thinks I’m Japanese at first, especially in Japan. I love Japan. But sometimes I’d rather be treated as a foreigner because I am one. I know Japanese social standards and I follow them, but being put as “Japanese” can be a little tiring for a foreigner.
Thank you for explaining your views and being open minded!
The west is different than Japan in terms of culture, but we should both respect each other.
I am very sorry about people like Logan Paul and Somali and I hope our cultures can continue to interact and be friendly without trying to change the other.
The most surprising thing that I've heard in the video is about that double-nationality issue.
Everything else feels pretty much normal and expected.
This vid was amazing 🔥.
I've lived in Japan off and on for 10+ years. So when I explain to many of my friends who love the culture and get emotional when I tell them, "you'll always be a gaijin. And that's okay." I can reference this video.
Thing is, I think we try to push American ideas on other countries. America's foundation is immigrants. Anyone can come to America. Live in America, love the idea of America and be an American. That's our foundation and the core of America.
Japan has a VERY different foundation and style. You can come here, appreciate and respect the culture and study it. You'll always be what you are though. And that's a positive thing. Not a negative thing. Be yourself and be respectful and no problem.
I think it's just a product of the era. Everyone feels out of place and confused with their own identify that society forced them to have. So they want to join something they vibe with. Or just be apart of something greater. Hence ppl jumping on social media movements just for the sake of doing it. Or everyone trying to be apart of everything they like in some way and this weird desire to be liked and accepted by everyone. It's odd to me, but I'm in my 30s and grew up in a major city where there's a bit of every culture.
Different strokes for different folks tho.
Amazing vid, Nobita.
Love your channel.
Half Japanese half Brazilian here born in Brazil.
I haven't lived in Japan long enough yet but enough to form an opinion.
I also lived in Canada.
This is oversimplified but:
So many of the problems in Japan are due to Japan being... Japan.
I understand and respect the culture and many things Japan does, but there are things that should change, like teaching that "standing out is bad".
Standing out is NOT bad and Japan should start teaching WHEN to stand out. That's very important. You can follow the rules AND be your own person and have a personality and not care about what others thing. This is almost like brain washing. You can do both.
Harassed at work? Complain. Tired and stressed? Go home and REST. F*** the work, your health is more important. Don't like the company anymore? Quit. Want to go on vacation? Use them all, not just half.
By preventing death from overwork, suicide or even people fed up with toxic Japanese work culture, you prevent the government losing taxpayers.
Happier people working less can go on dates, get married, have babies. Less time at work doing nothing means less that with that person whom you would most likely cheat on your partner.
People saying "I don't want kids because everything is expensive" but it's only expensive because there are not enough taxpayers for the gov to help subsidize....
If Japan was 15% more individualitic, Japan would THRIVE so much more.
This. Not to mention the suicide rates in Japan alone.
@neiren_ this is a little misleading. I see people every day in America who are committing suicide by living on the streets and doing very dangerous drugs. They're not counted in the statistics.
@@neiren_ Many western countries have a far higher rate than Japan. Japans is actually not all that high in the grande scheme of things.
@@Jordan-Ramses because all of this is not considered suicidal behavior. What society consider is just a few forms it has to check a couple of boxes to be considered suicide. The people on the street and drugs addicted are considered a health and social issue. And this is for the most part why country’s have trouble with addictions in general since health is not able to do it’s own job and on top of that cover the addition part and social issues often doesn’t even have a place or even exist in most places witch lead country’s to give this responsibility to the police or the military which will just fill the prisons with sick people put together with real criminals masterminds that uses this sick people since most often they don’t stay in jail for long which creates an even bigger problem: in Brazil of exemple: this was the way it originated the biggest Brazil’s cartels in the 90`s they put in the same cell lawyers, money-hungry criminals and a bunch of addicted they form a group in prison which lead to the biggest most terrorizing criminal organization and their entire business is centers around drugs selling, making and distribution. Because they are everywhere government cannot do shit, they have their hands in everything government, private companies, public private companies, police, military, other countries government, they are government agencies, officials and everything under the sun. But this is just in Brazil
@@ljj9494 @OhPueDyeSki I’m not comparing to western countries or America, but go off.
We plan to go to japan in '25 in a group of 7 and your videos shed a light on what we can do to have the best time possible. Like if we want to connect with locals and not be just by ourselfs. Thank you
Interesting video The Anime Man is awesome I like him overall he is Japanese, Hungarian, German and Australian
you can do alot worse than looking like foreigner but actually be Japanese. be me, an Asian foreigner in Japan. you should see the look on some Japanese's faces when they started talking to me in Japanese but found out I'm a foreigner. their face literally go through the "my dissapointment is immersurable and my day is ruined" meme
You can blame mainly china and korea for that 😂😂
So being forever seen as an outsider in your own country because of how you look is not so bad, because other people also have problems? What? If we go by your logic neither of you can complain because people are starving in Africa.
@@norihiro01China and Korea did nothing bad to Japan. It was the opposite in fact!
@@KateeAngel ok! you earned 50 cents
@@8qk67acq5 china is old too so I hear. lol
Joey there's nothing wrong with you expressing your Aussie side either
I lived in Japan and I’m originally French-American. I am thankful that I made a few really great Japanese friends, and ironically got rejected by my American friends for being Buddhist. Maybe I didn’t really integrate in Japanese society but the few Japanese friends I had helped me survive the regimented military culture of the American AirForce which I couldn’t adapt to despite being in the medical field
funny thing, Iwas in Japan last december for a vacation and it was a blast! But ofcourse positive things are never without negatives and most on what you said in this video is what I experienced and observed in Japan. But it's not that I mind it that much but I did experience it.. never the less I met alot of really interesting japanese people who helped me in my travels! So yeah!!!