I have to admit, I do not know who the first to figure this out was, but if any of you in the comments do, please let me know and I will give them the proper credit. I was not the first, but this info had to be shared.
@@TheDsIEGE nah, you won’t. They may, if they don’t use the latent potential in both the game and lore. But I’m confident DE has a plan. How well executed it is, we’ll see.
@@TheDsIEGE *you* will never look stupid by being wrong. At best, you'll sound crazy by suggesting far-fetched ideas. But if your things don't play out, and make sense, then it's a shame they didn't think shit as thoroughly as you
As developers I think it's kind of hard to fulfill the dreams or fantasies of players. To be honest we get to spend all our time thinking about theories but for them to actually craft it into the game is a much more time consuming task. to be honest if they just showed us that video games are real life war #coughliveservice with rendered veils in front of it, children murdering hundreds of people (soldiers) that's going to upset them 🤣🤣🤣 To conclude the conspiracy theory, we need the best gamers, whether they teenagers or younger, to believe that everything is just simulation or video games. In reality (at least conspreality) the longer you can delay players from the reality of the acts they are committing the more effective operators they are to their military-gaming complex.
@@TheDsIEGE possibly a coincidence, but during the New War teaser trailer the Warframe logo went from The Lotus symbol to something looking more like a rose
I would still help her, from the sounds of her history she hasn't had much choice in what roles she plays, no true freedom. Neither have our tenno really, so in saving her and setting her free to make her own choices we would also be taking our own 1st true steps to becoming our own people, not just mindless mercs that seem to just try to keep the status quo. I want to see more tenno development!
@@TheDsIEGE I hope so, seems a waste to show the older tenno and the void-ness (that's the official term) but I think there's room to force our tenno to have to think for themselves possibly using two more umbra frames for that. Mag and volt are waiting! Aside from sacrifice (that was instigated by the man in the wall I believe) our tenno haven't really done anything without being told...unless I missed something haven't done some of the endgame stuff yet. Anyway the grind calls!
Me throughout warframe : I will never hurt lotus Me when DE says that lotus drops a warframe part : Lotus who ? Oh you mean the thing bleeding by my sword
Erra says that the Lotus has their mother's spark or voice or something like that... Maybe Erra revealed that the lotus is the host of their mother or something more.... And that is «killing her»
@@ShivaServer2009 crude speculation occuring in this particular order: 1. We travel to the sentient mothership 2. We find Ballas Errah and Lotus there 3. Something happens 4. We either kill or save the Lotus 5. The Sentient mother becomes the system’s true major threat 6. Man in the Wall reaches out to us saying we’ll need his help to take on the Sentient mother 7. We travel to the void to speak to him 8. We get trapped in the void until Man in the Wall or some entity explains everything (Duviri Paradox)
This is fascinating, I have to say. The "I am dying" part blew me away too! I'll be sad if we lose her, but I've got a space dad now, and his name is Cephalon Cy!
She calls herself empty and an echo. Erra said she had "her fire", talking about the Mother. He calls her a God. A Queen. Seems to me like she was "crafted" FROM the Mother. Like Hunhow decided to take her consciousness and put it into a new child. That's why Mother has been dormant. She was inside Natah all this time. When the Orokin caught her, they erased Natah and made her into a false mother. Seems like Ballas knew exactly what she was when he released her. He wants her out there mothering the sentients to finish the war. Whatever that means to him. She thinks she's dying because she's disappearing. what she always thought she was. mother of the tenno. she's being forced into being something else.
Well... with us having necramechs and the like, the idea is definitely to force us to use things other than our warframes so you could very well be right.
Don't forget that DE has already been giving us broken necramechs to transfer into and use though. On Deimos' Cambion Drift as well as in Orphix missions.
Holy! I never noticed that I was to engross killing sentient XDU Honestly, if they gave the chance to save Lotus or Natah or whatever you want to call her now, I will do it without hesitation! After all I always felt bad for her because obviously she is just been use and control...
@@TheDsIEGE Would be good if the Codex had some kind of timeline confirming the exact order events and quests are supposed to occur in (I'm 90% sure original release order is *not* the order new players get them in, and I don't know which is correct chronological order!) and letting us re-view important transmissions and other lore.
@@TheDsIEGE if we’re not reading too much into this, I wouldn’t doubt it, “Natah” does speak a certain way, like she’s thinking of what to say with each phrase...again I maybe reading too much into it lol
Well... it's just so hidden, that's the main problem. Like this event is a perfect example. Who would even be paying attention to what she's saying with so much chaos going on around us, you know?
I had an interesting idea; It’s essentially that the bodies that we customize for our Tenno, our operators, are false bodies. Essentially void manifestations driven around by the tenno’s consciousness, this is potentially strengthened by the fact that the Helminth calls us Void Demons and if we take what the Man In The Wall has to say at times at the reliquary drive “You’re nothing without me, kiddo.” (Which is notably a less than friendly tone!) lastly I believe that the Tenno’s true bodies are wherever the Durviri Paradox takes place, as we can assume that in the scene transition we follow the same Tenno who now appears grown and with that notable mask. The same kind of mask we’ve been told and sort of shown to belong to a new enemy faction. Also notable is that once the Tenno is back in their “true body” they are unaware they have lost their void powers and subsequentially their void form. Basically things we both have seen and things we have yet to truly see may be pointing to the fact that the Tenno are essentially piloting another sort of mech lol, this time a void demon instead of an infested humanoid with a transference bolt or a big robot.
"Mother is gone!" But the ship/throneroom they're in /should/ be mother What if the duality we see in lotus isn't unique... What if the void, outside of The Man, fractures not just human minds but sentient body and mind? Two Erra, the warmonger, dead, and the manipulator aboard mother. Two Mother, One dead upon arrival in the proxima, one alive and being tortured. Two father, one living, just barely, in his failure below Uranus the other dying during the old war itself so long ago And Lotus... who's warmind was expelled by her own will to adopt the mind of Margulus while her other duality was never truly understood... Not that she is the Queen of mimics.... But that she is the Puppeted Queen to be used by those who would mimic her to hide their deeds or idenities.
I feel like the Lotus is trying to trap us because in the new war 2nd chapter erra says "what are you waiting for sister, sing for us. call them home" which makes me feel like the lotus is trying to make us feel empathy for her.
If MOTHER, as erra puts it, controlling the lotus/natah then i will definitely try to save her. She tried to be the tenno's mother figure and help us. Damn the lore is getting deeper. But if she really is betraying us well...let it be known that a few weapons are dedicated for that scenario.
I mean... Ballas, the master traitor, gave us a weapon designed specifically for that purpose... And of course you'd want to do what the cause of all your problems told you to right? 😄
I think this could be apart of a character arc for the Tenno where they will be forced to defeat the lotus and as a result the Tenno will mature which could lead to the duviri paradox where the Tenno are truly alone for the first time
Holy shit. A choice I had already most so certainly before we even confront her again in person has been totally thrown into question. Damnnit. Amazing vid. Keep up the great work.
Great decryption. Also thanks for playing the whole Venom event and paying such close attention AND scouring the content for details. You really go above and beyond
Vilcore(Father) says durring the cinematic that "someone" taught the sentients how to disable our Warframes. Who is with the sentients and knows alot about warframes? Ballas. If he can "teach" them that, then think what would happen if he were to combine the sentients with the technocyte, that would be THE defenition of cosmic horror. As for lotus... well... leting her live free would be to dangerous and killing her to hard so... imprision her into a void tower for now?... it's not that easy man
@@TheDsIEGE I have a feeling she isn't being controlled I think her mind is being manipulated into thinking she is on their side which is why she seems to be contradicting and questioning herself And its up to us to break it
I notice her speaking pattern in OV, but was disspointed no one else noticed or covered it anywhere in the community (youtube, reddit, twitter) untill now thx dude
Holy shit that is crazy! Seriously, who was the first to find this clue? I really can't wait for what DE plans for the next stage of the New War. If the Sentients are slowly adapting to the Tenno's tactics, from nullifying our Warframes to potentially dealing with Necramechs, what else will the Tenno have to do to finally get the definitive advantage they need over them? So far, only the Tenno children themselves seem unaffected by whatever the Sentients are doing. Will this potentially tie into the Duviri Paradox and whatever the Tenno can gain from it, whenever it releases? Besides, DE needs to fix/massively change Operator combat anyway, so hopefully when they're done for the time being with Corpus RJ and the Queenpins, they can focus on the Duviri Paradox 'cause I'm really curious as to how the Tenno themselves can impact the war, as you've shown that the Tenno will have to make a choice with the Lotus and/or the Man in the Wall soon. With the revelation of the Lotus/Natah(?) dying, and the crazy lore of the Man in the Wall revealed in Heart of Deimos, I can't wait to see how this finally concludes
I had the idea a while back that in the new war, we get one of those “moral compass” choices that gives only two options, to subvert the expectation that we could stay “balanced” by always choosing the middle option. Now I have an idea what that prompt might be. The lotus asking Do you trust me? -Yes -No
Theory: Nathah gets more and more consumed by Mother because of the spark erra mentioned, erra tries to resurrect Mother in the body of Nathah, and Nathah/ the lotus is fighting for control over her own mind and body
MAN, i wish i would've picked up on some of this stuff! I wish i wasn't such a *turn my brain off* type of gamer because the revalation of the seemingly random coordinates and designations being what they were BLEW ME AWAY. I love the potential with the lore and everything you keep pointing out and can't wait to see what DE does with all of it because i sincerely believe that they have big plans for the future of the game's story and they're just trying to get all the systems in place first so they can tell it un-inhibited.
Play how you want to play! This is what youtube is for, to explain these things. That way, the next time you go in, maybe you'll take a look around and understand what you're looking at. The game doesn't do a really great job of putting it's story front and center, so you can't be blamed. But... yeah don't even worry about it! Or... do what I do. Every time I visit a tile I look through the details. DE's visual story telling, especially in the void, is very very good. The environment tells a lot about the orokin. Go out there, see what's around and figure out what moves you. That's what I do.
Whoa , this video and your series really did open up a whole new view of the story for me. If we were to take Man in the wall's side would we be basically destroyed as we wouldn't serve any purpose or would we still be "the caretakers" of our system ?
The wave is probably a void emp. The tenno are a void generator, normally using a conduit, which is evident with the war within and our operator. After the teshin love (golden maw) we learn to channel the void. Feels like the tenno are a void battery, using the conduit as a input signal generator. After teshin, we learned how create the signals. Probably the warframe is being overwhelmed signal-wise. Like a tf2 spy sapper on sentry, you can't tell it anything with interference, not even to self-destruct.
I believe that she is in the midst of an inner battle between the Sentient Control and herself. Her encoded message to us is her warning that she may not be able to last much longer and that we need to act quickly. Most likely finding the solution in the future Duviri Paradox. Hence why it's taking so long for DE to release it and yet excited to tease it.
as always, i believe the tenno must save the lotus if we are to break the cycle of death and chaos. Everything so far has been a result of the orokin either directly or as a reaction spiraling out of control. If we kill the lotus (or let her die) , some other group will come to avenge her causing more chaos. It may even break apart toe tenno into multiple factions. as you said in one of your previous videos, balance is what is needed. what more balance can we ask for than a sentient pretending to be an orokin, working with the tenno?
This feels like how Peeta was brainjacked :P Also 6:02 Ballas's right eye is eerily similar to our eyes when we are being led by Man in Wall (Wallman, if you will) :P
Like I've said before I will kill the Lotus when given the chance. I wad never really a fan of the mission operator. I have been waiting for years for this.
@@akhannar9368 nah, in essence I see the Tenno having the Lotus’s mind being stripped away from her sentient body in an attempt to preserve Margulis as a cephalon and kill Natah. That sounds really plausible tbh, basically Cyberpunk 2077 engram lmao
If she dies, then I can finally turn into the freelance mercenary that my character was meant to be. However, she did betray us even when she helped us destroy that higher evil which did not die.
For all that the Lotus has done for the Tenno (even the protag), she's become a liability: between Hunhow's influence and now this. Knowing this may make the moment a bit sadder, but it's a moment that has to happen nonetheless. Her duty is fulfilled; the Tenno have grown, having a far greater understanding of the world around them, and have the connections necessary to move forward on their own. It's at this point that I can only hope her end can be brought about with as little pain as possible, and with *some* dignity intact.
Honestly, I’m thinking that if the theory about the Lotus being Natah’s Wally (based on her “eye” during the Erra cinematic and DsIEGE’s previous theory videos) is true, then it might be that the Lotus personality is being killed by Natah returning to her Sentient form due to the Sentients’ Void allergy. That would also be consistent with the Duviri Paradox theory that seems to imply that the Tenno might be the Wallys of the original Zariman children, who are still stuck in the Void and are the older, de-powered Operators seen in the Duviri teaser. This makes a lot of sense narratively: assuming the New War ends with the reveal that the Lotus and Natah were separate entities the whole time, that would naturally lead the Tenno to wonder if *they* were “false” entities, leading to the Duviri Paradox. Albrecht Entrati’s lore seems to be laying the groundwork for some sort of reveal along those lines, and the Railjack Finger plus the weird incongruities that DsIEGE spotted in the previous quests seems to point heavily towards this reveal having been planned out far in advance of DE winds up going that way.
So coming back to this Rebecca is suspiciously on vacation just as production on the New War is going full steam noting that it's "a much deserved vacation" I think our wonderful community manager might have whipped out some tier 0 meta acting for this quest. Whether we do get to kill Natah or not is yet to be seen but it is clear that her role coming up will be HUGE.
The Man in the Wall (the bad tenno form) has been popping up in new locations in the Orbiter and I am really on edge because now I'm not sure where else she will show up...
I don't think the way our warframes shut down in Deimos and in the orphix cutscene are related, it could just be a way a warframe shuts down, like how a human puts their hands in front of them when they're falling over. Anyway I think they're using the lotus to communicate with all sentient and co-ordinate JUST LIKE she co-ordinated the tenno forces and it may be killing her. That's what everything is telling me. Through all that communication she's letting leak specific codes that she's being made to communicate to us to get the code out.
Just... Wow... Now it looks like a great build up to New War... Tbh I really want to help The Lotus, because that "I AM DYING" just HAVE TO be a true Lotus message for Tenno... And after a New War I do not want to play without a Lotus :c Maybe this quest will be like "Lotus was helping and leading me, so now I have to save Her"...
So, it look's like the Lotus was captured by Honhow (if he survived the second dream) or by "The Mother" and they want to juse her for something improtant, that she dosent want to be part of and with that, they want to destroy the Tenno
Great video as always!Ty for discovering that msg,it is a game changer.Idk how many of you watched star trek but lotus been in this state reminds me of cpt Picard been assimilated by Borg and put as a leader of their army.Something/somebody is using lotus to deceive and control sentients.Might be ballas or whatever became of him or mysterious man in the wall, whoever he is...I call him grandpa.
As of now The New War is really close, and I seeing this video, think most of the facts and theories does seem to fit. From my understanding, I think as this, the "song" must be some form of ability no other sentient but Natah/Lotus possesses. Maybe their mother had it, which we do not know who or what is she. Pretty similar to Eidolons, conculysts or any or most sentient have a distinct howl or song, maybe of all of them Lotus has something special, which no other has. And it's hinted time and again, even by Erra. And personally, it seemed clear Erra is upto something, which we cannot predict till we get to play the quest to come, Erra seemed more stubborn and child-like from the current quests and cutscenes. But all of us have seen the Demo atleast, to notice he has evolved some form of maturity. Much more like a fanatic of sorts. He seems to spare/abduct people from each race, who showed some form of bravery and hence confronts them with the "Don't be afraid!" phrase. Well it's only time we will find out! As for Ballas, I can't say, he seems to be in the gray area, he's upto something alright. First, he gives us the Paracesis to fight Lotus and the sentients. But later in the Maker cutscene, you can see him being happy about it when Erra is manipulating over Lotus' mind. Even as Erra loses the leash, Ballas kinda stands up as if, him being enslaved was an act and he is part of the minds behind the invasion. Honestly, this guy seems weird man... Nice video, it did cover all the important stuff, and that message from her commands and instructions, that was pretty neat and blew my mind lol. Thanks again to spread the word to us.
Her comments about being hollow and empty, then mentioning she sings before correcting it to the wind sings her emptiness makes it seem pretty clear to me that she is aware of the fact that it is her ability to sing that is the cause, but she is not the one singing, akin to holding a flute out into the wind and it creating notes. That 'throne' she is on could be allowing someone to hack her and use her without her being aware of it. All of this to me though comes across more like she is thinking or speaking to herself and trying to figure something out than directly speaking to the Tenno. It could be the case that she is reflexively speaking to you through a comm channel without knowing it, thus giving the Tenno a look within her thoughts.
I had this crazy idea for a long time now, and this "I AM DYING" thing seems just one more clue. What IF the Entity inside Natah Has been Marghulis all along? She's the one who taught Transference to the Tenno. When she was sentenced to the Jade Light she may have been using Transference in order to survive. How could she know all about Marghulis, all about her stuff... I mean, I'm pretty convinced inside Natah, struggling for control and for survival there may be Marghulis herself...
So, I'll try to unravel Natah/Lotus here. There was the message "Margulis implantation intact" back when update 17 launched which brought the Natah quest. It was written in Orokin text. My assumption is, that the text means implating Margulis into the Sentient Mimic that is Natah (some kind of Transference?). A process neither Natah nor Margulis had control over (probably). Result was "The Lotus", Margulis' favorite flower but not Margulis 2.0. Basically creating an Amalgam of mind. A bit like Alad V has done on a material level. Erra saying "[...] because of what the Makers did to you" is pointing at this process. Who did it? Ballas, I think. That's why he was still talking to Margulis, not Natah. Maybe was tricked by the Sentient to help and revert this process (maybe he was promised a surrogate sentient body for Margulis' mind). He gave us the sword because he now accepts defeat, Excalibur Umbra was a failure for him and now the Lotus project is a failure too. So yes, Natah "deleting" Margulis makes sense. The Lotus is dying, this too might be inevitable. Seperating either Natah or Margulis would kill the Lotus as we know.
Wow afternoon load!!! caught me off guard here. As always thanks for upload, Lotus dying is inevitable in my opinion. But, what if she was already dead like Margulis. Maybe she as the power to morph to a physical aspect when we first meet her. Maybe like in the sacrifice her true form is the one we see her in when she comes for Balas. ''I am a hollow vessel'' like our warframes. So much can be assumed but I dont want to fill the comment with a long text. lol Peace my friend and again thanks for the intense work you do to bring us your vue on the lore. By far the best available... And when she message the I am dying. I feel the core Lotus is dying to become the sentient she was made to be.
If it’s the man on the wall, it would make sense on the previous comment that I made about Ballas being influenced and as a result killing Margulis. I assume the reason why Natah or Lotus is able to get control even if it’s a moment has to do with the Heart of Deimos. As long the heart pumps there will be a flow of void that keeps those affected or made form it alive, but if it stopped then the flow of the void stops and everything shuts down. So when Ophirix or alpha sentient created something similar to the heart of Deimos it’s affecting the flow of the void making almost like it was sick. So each time he does this is like the man in the wall is having a heart attack or small seizures. Also by doing this she is also dying as it both the man in the wall are linked like a Tenno and their warframe. My other theory is that Lotus is suffering from a personality disorder. Old Natah vs the Lotus. This can explain why she’s terrified of the idea of releasing alpha sentient as well as the other version of her being fine with the idea that she did release him. And Lotus says she’s dying she’s probably saying that her old self is winning and is gaining control. But hey, I don’t know much about the lore itself
i remember mentioning in our previous videos that she was being manipulated and controlled by erra and balles but i did not expect this it get more interesting
My brains smokin, trigger finger is dialed at the man in the wall and the lotus & I may have to either save or kill the lotus... Yep just another day in the warframe story
I’m a logical person. And I never saw that lotus is bad. Yes she was programmed by Orikin but you can see a lot of human will inside of her, even as Natha.
It's possible the sentients used (S)Alad V's and Ballas' information on warframes and not the Heart incident, which explains why they're able to deactivate warframes but still can't combat anything void related
Natah is a sentient, you have to consider that the human Lotus is the "false personality", because of the sentient's plans to manipulate the Tenno. Maybe no one is controlling her, is simply her programs in conflict, remember that she is a robot with a AI. She was "born" sentient, Natah
tbh if there is an entity in.universe that might know what's up and might have an interest in disrupting them it could be: Hunhow. As calculated as he is if he is truly seen as " dead" by the sentient conscience he might outa of the loop on their current plan, but he might still have a vested interested on Recovering Natah which could be a vector for interaction between the tenno and someone who has the sentient mindset.Last we got word ofhim he wasnt actually dead just trapped under the oceans of Uranus and using the Edgy boi as his "Avatar".
I have to admit, I do not know who the first to figure this out was, but if any of you in the comments do, please let me know and I will give them the proper credit. I was not the first, but this info had to be shared.
hi
@@imbored3529 Hello!
@@TheDsIEGE heya
It was me, Dio.
Its a good thing your channel exists because i am to dumb to notice any non obvious lore points.
Bruh I have no idea where the lore is going but I sure hope that DE are gonna make it as deep as my guys theories
Me too or I'm gonna look really stupid, lol
@@TheDsIEGE nah, you won’t. They may, if they don’t use the latent potential in both the game and lore. But I’m confident DE has a plan. How well executed it is, we’ll see.
@@inglebear84 God I hope you're right, lol...
@@TheDsIEGE *you* will never look stupid by being wrong. At best, you'll sound crazy by suggesting far-fetched ideas. But if your things don't play out, and make sense, then it's a shame they didn't think shit as thoroughly as you
As developers I think it's kind of hard to fulfill the dreams or fantasies of players. To be honest we get to spend all our time thinking about theories but for them to actually craft it into the game is a much more time consuming task.
to be honest if they just showed us that video games are real life war #coughliveservice with rendered veils in front of it, children murdering hundreds of people (soldiers) that's going to upset them 🤣🤣🤣
To conclude the conspiracy theory, we need the best gamers, whether they teenagers or younger, to believe that everything is just simulation or video games. In reality (at least conspreality) the longer you can delay players from the reality of the acts they are committing the more effective operators they are to their military-gaming complex.
The message " I AM DYING" literally blew my mind....
I would rly like if ordis somehow got his body back and help us in the war
I would love that... So would he.
he can use and keep my bonewidow, we need a new companion type for missions.
Lets make ordis a body, it could work as a shadow clone
If we kill natah, I do hope that ordan charis would then become the new announcer
Pretty hard to get hus body back since it has been pooffed by the jade light 👀
Im gonna hope that DE would let us mod the mission control voices after that.
That would be cool, no doubt.
Heh... translated Clem would be amusing for a bit.
Im hoping for sentient natah mission control
wts ordis 0p
@@Zzay397 Gimme! 🤑
The Lotus may die, but in her place will come The Rose
But then... is the thorn to follow?
Id say ordis
@@TheDsIEGE possibly a coincidence, but during the New War teaser trailer the Warframe logo went from The Lotus symbol to something looking more like a rose
@@TheDsIEGE maybe the Tenno will purify her or something like that
@@4g3nt06 shut up ordis.
I would still help her, from the sounds of her history she hasn't had much choice in what roles she plays, no true freedom.
Neither have our tenno really, so in saving her and setting her free to make her own choices we would also be taking our own 1st true steps to becoming our own people, not just mindless mercs that seem to just try to keep the status quo.
I want to see more tenno development!
I personally believe it's on the way. Duviri, I think, will heavily involve the tenno.
@@TheDsIEGE I hope so, seems a waste to show the older tenno and the void-ness (that's the official term) but I think there's room to force our tenno to have to think for themselves possibly using two more umbra frames for that.
Mag and volt are waiting!
Aside from sacrifice (that was instigated by the man in the wall I believe) our tenno haven't really done anything without being told...unless I missed something haven't done some of the endgame stuff yet.
Anyway the grind calls!
🤘🔥💯🌠
Me throughout warframe : I will never hurt lotus
Me when DE says that lotus drops a warframe part : Lotus who ? Oh you mean the thing bleeding by my sword
LOL... I think we're all like that secretly...
Killing lotus gives you Reb's lotus cosmetics
Neutral Evil for the win!
@@PollexTheCat sharpening my Paraceisis .....
You'd kill her for warframe parts? Man, I must really be cheap because I would do it for a crisp high five and a broken ammo drum.
Erra says that the Lotus has their mother's spark or voice or something like that...
Maybe Erra revealed that the lotus is the host of their mother or something more....
And that is «killing her»
She very well could be... or maybe lotus's powers are actually mother's...
I renamed my Paracesis to "Spacemoms head piercing" and I'm not about to let that plat go to waste.
Pretty evident where you stand with that name for certain, lol...
So, I take it you didn't take Spacemom leaving you that well?
@@ironbatman9689 More the fact she wasn't actually ever spacemom. Ordis is best overprotective parent.
She leaves us to basically die so i have no remorse for her and every other enemy that stands in my way
We invaded space uncle's ship and kill our space cousins there is no going back now
It'll be a twist if what probably controlling the lotus is what the man in the wall wants to stop.
That would be an awesome twist. But... if he's on our side, and she is as well... what is this enemy? They would be incredibly powerful...
@@TheDsIEGE The sentient mother I’d wager a guess. Which kinda ties up nicely for my speculation on how the Duviri Paradox is initiated.
Galactic Hivemind capable of mass producing fits the position quite well.
@@kevinpaap2890 What is your speculation ?
@@ShivaServer2009 crude speculation occuring in this particular order:
1. We travel to the sentient mothership
2. We find Ballas Errah and Lotus there
3. Something happens
4. We either kill or save the Lotus
5. The Sentient mother becomes the system’s true major threat
6. Man in the Wall reaches out to us saying we’ll need his help to take on the Sentient mother
7. We travel to the void to speak to him
8. We get trapped in the void until Man in the Wall or some entity explains everything (Duviri Paradox)
This is fascinating, I have to say. The "I am dying" part blew me away too!
I'll be sad if we lose her, but I've got a space dad now, and his name is Cephalon Cy!
She calls herself empty and an echo. Erra said she had "her fire", talking about the Mother. He calls her a God. A Queen. Seems to me like she was "crafted" FROM the Mother. Like Hunhow decided to take her consciousness and put it into a new child. That's why Mother has been dormant. She was inside Natah all this time. When the Orokin caught her, they erased Natah and made her into a false mother. Seems like Ballas knew exactly what she was when he released her. He wants her out there mothering the sentients to finish the war. Whatever that means to him. She thinks she's dying because she's disappearing. what she always thought she was. mother of the tenno. she's being forced into being something else.
accurate
Damn, the plot is Thiccer than wisp
It is, you're totally right with that analogy, lol...
EXTRA THICC
The plot thickens...
You ain't kidding, kiddo.
listening to this makes me think of the new quest coming with void storms and kicking us out of our frames like we have seen before
Well... with us having necramechs and the like, the idea is definitely to force us to use things other than our warframes so you could very well be right.
@@TheDsIEGE me not having a necramech yet makes me screws i guess lol
I don't have one either. I hate them, personally but... I guess I'm gonna have to grind for one now. BOOOOOOOOOOOO
Don't forget that DE has already been giving us broken necramechs to transfer into and use though. On Deimos' Cambion Drift as well as in Orphix missions.
@@Megalomaniakaal u can also just buy them for plat now instead of grinding for them
I hope to tell her what she told us.
"Dream. Not of what you are, but of what you want to be."
What about sing the counter part of the apostasy song? would be so sad. Imagine that scene while Lotus dies.
This is HUGE!!!! I never even caught this. You are the lore master.
I didn't find it, I'm only reporting on it. Nonetheless, all tenno need to know this.
Holy! I never noticed that I was to engross killing sentient XDU
Honestly, if they gave the chance to save Lotus or Natah or whatever you want to call her now, I will do it without hesitation! After all I always felt bad for her because obviously she is just been use and control...
I wish this stuff wouldn't happen DURING a battle. How can you even think about what she's saying with so much other stuff going on around you, lol...
" she is just been use and control..."
just as the Tenno were during the Old War
@@TheDsIEGE Would be good if the Codex had some kind of timeline confirming the exact order events and quests are supposed to occur in (I'm 90% sure original release order is *not* the order new players get them in, and I don't know which is correct chronological order!) and letting us re-view important transmissions and other lore.
I wonder if there have been more secret messages since the Lotus departure....
I'm already looking into that...
@@TheDsIEGE if we’re not reading too much into this, I wouldn’t doubt it, “Natah” does speak a certain way, like she’s thinking of what to say with each phrase...again I maybe reading too much into it lol
As Oppenheimer said, "I am become death, destroyer of worlds."
Rumour has it that the Lotus drops primed ammo drum and I know what to do when I finally face her
Primed ammo drum?!?!?!? I MUST HAVE IT!
Primed archwing mods or riot
Insane detail pickup. This is why your videos are the best.
*Lotus dying*
*sees big hammer*
[HEAVY METAL MUSIC STARTS]
legit I feel like you're the only person making the plot make sense. Until I watched your channel I thought the story was a jumbled mess
Well... it's just so hidden, that's the main problem. Like this event is a perfect example. Who would even be paying attention to what she's saying with so much chaos going on around us, you know?
I had an interesting idea;
It’s essentially that the bodies that we customize for our Tenno, our operators, are false bodies. Essentially void manifestations driven around by the tenno’s consciousness, this is potentially strengthened by the fact that the Helminth calls us Void Demons and if we take what the Man In The Wall has to say at times at the reliquary drive “You’re nothing without me, kiddo.” (Which is notably a less than friendly tone!) lastly I believe that the Tenno’s true bodies are wherever the Durviri Paradox takes place, as we can assume that in the scene transition we follow the same Tenno who now appears grown and with that notable mask. The same kind of mask we’ve been told and sort of shown to belong to a new enemy faction. Also notable is that once the Tenno is back in their “true body” they are unaware they have lost their void powers and subsequentially their void form.
Basically things we both have seen and things we have yet to truly see may be pointing to the fact that the Tenno are essentially piloting another sort of mech lol, this time a void demon instead of an infested humanoid with a transference bolt or a big robot.
I like these type of lore videos
These are my favorite to make!
"Mother is gone!"
But the ship/throneroom they're in /should/ be mother
What if the duality we see in lotus isn't unique...
What if the void, outside of The Man, fractures not just human minds but sentient body and mind?
Two Erra, the warmonger, dead, and the manipulator aboard mother. Two Mother, One dead upon arrival in the proxima, one alive and being tortured.
Two father, one living, just barely, in his failure below Uranus the other dying during the old war itself so long ago
And Lotus... who's warmind was expelled by her own will to adopt the mind of Margulus while her other duality was never truly understood... Not that she is the Queen of mimics.... But that she is the Puppeted Queen to be used by those who would mimic her to hide their deeds or idenities.
I feel like the Lotus is trying to trap us because in the new war 2nd chapter erra says "what are you waiting for sister, sing for us. call them home" which makes me feel like the lotus is trying to make us feel empathy for her.
yep... unless that vision was nothing more than that, a vision. Time will tell...
I would be a bit more tempted by a Primed Blunderbuss
them likely refers to the greater Sentient fleets
If MOTHER, as erra puts it, controlling the lotus/natah then i will definitely try to save her. She tried to be the tenno's mother figure and help us.
Damn the lore is getting deeper. But if she really is betraying us well...let it be known that a few weapons are dedicated for that scenario.
I mean... Ballas, the master traitor, gave us a weapon designed specifically for that purpose... And of course you'd want to do what the cause of all your problems told you to right? 😄
I really love these Warframe lore videos, great job!
I think this could be apart of a character arc for the Tenno where they will be forced to defeat the lotus and as a result the Tenno will mature which could lead to the duviri paradox where the Tenno are truly alone for the first time
I have cast my lot with darkness, and I will follow this path to the end; may the Dark Gods guide my hand well.
I truly lost these videos. Digging into the lore and putting the puzzle pieces together slowly.
I wish there was a way to save her and then part ways. A way for Tenno to step into adulthood.
Holy shit. A choice I had already most so certainly before we even confront her again in person has been totally thrown into question. Damnnit.
Amazing vid. Keep up the great work.
Great decryption. Also thanks for playing the whole Venom event and paying such close attention AND scouring the content for details. You really go above and beyond
I like this... very very possible and an angle I didn't think of!!!!
Vilcore(Father) says durring the cinematic that "someone" taught the sentients how to disable our Warframes. Who is with the sentients and knows alot about warframes? Ballas. If he can "teach" them that, then think what would happen if he were to combine the sentients with the technocyte, that would be THE defenition of cosmic horror.
As for lotus... well... leting her live free would be to dangerous and killing her to hard so... imprision her into a void tower for now?... it's not that easy man
Ah the problems of being the supermen and women of our universe. You'll never truly know who you can trust...
If something becomes both status and crit immune now thats a horror.
Thank you for addressing those coordinates. Was going through the event in hopes of getting a transmission from her.
I'm just waiting for that boss fight against or for the lotus
Well it's coming... I think that much is certain now.
@@TheDsIEGE
I have a feeling she isn't being controlled I think her mind is being manipulated into thinking she is on their side which is why she seems to be contradicting and questioning herself
And its up to us to break it
You could very well be right!
After the new war bro it seems you were wright on the money. Good job.
"She is the the Queen of Nothing"
*King Nothing starts to play*
King Nothing... added to "WF Battle Tunes" playlist. Ty
Reb being a Jojo fan probably loved saying that line
@@RyanRyann13 *How did you know I was a JoJo fa-* Oh yeah...The name..
I notice her speaking pattern in OV, but was disspointed no one else noticed or covered it anywhere in the community (youtube, reddit, twitter) untill now thx dude
We don't need the lotus. Embrace the MIGHTY SEER
Holy shit that is crazy! Seriously, who was the first to find this clue? I really can't wait for what DE plans for the next stage of the New War.
If the Sentients are slowly adapting to the Tenno's tactics, from nullifying our Warframes to potentially dealing with Necramechs, what else will the Tenno have to do to finally get the definitive advantage they need over them?
So far, only the Tenno children themselves seem unaffected by whatever the Sentients are doing. Will this potentially tie into the Duviri Paradox and whatever the Tenno can gain from it, whenever it releases? Besides, DE needs to fix/massively change Operator combat anyway, so hopefully when they're done for the time being with Corpus RJ and the Queenpins, they can focus on the Duviri Paradox 'cause I'm really curious as to how the Tenno themselves can impact the war, as you've shown that the Tenno will have to make a choice with the Lotus and/or the Man in the Wall soon.
With the revelation of the Lotus/Natah(?) dying, and the crazy lore of the Man in the Wall revealed in Heart of Deimos, I can't wait to see how this finally concludes
Maybe our chimeric twin in the void will know what to do. Duviri can't come quick enough!
Someone on Reddit found this out in the third week of Orphix Venom
I had the idea a while back that in the new war, we get one of those “moral compass” choices that gives only two options, to subvert the expectation that we could stay “balanced” by always choosing the middle option. Now I have an idea what that prompt might be. The lotus asking
Do you trust me?
-Yes
-No
Great video as always. Im pretty sure mother need our help... Tenno power is the key to all this and the man in the wall try to trick as.
I think you may be on to something here...
Your channel terrifies me, it makes me realize just how much I'm not paying attention
I didn't know about the hidden message, so THANKS. I wanted to rescue Lotus from the beginning, but even more so, now that she's dying.
Theory: Nathah gets more and more consumed by Mother because of the spark erra mentioned, erra tries to resurrect Mother in the body of Nathah, and Nathah/ the lotus is fighting for control over her own mind and body
when she left we got ordis and now ive warmed up to ordis so the lotus is dying
Excellent theory. Credit to the originator, but also credit to you for such a watchable version.
this only reinforces my opinion, and i will do what i have to in order to get the Lotus back.
MAN, i wish i would've picked up on some of this stuff!
I wish i wasn't such a *turn my brain off* type of gamer because the revalation of the seemingly random coordinates and designations being what they were BLEW ME AWAY.
I love the potential with the lore and everything you keep pointing out and can't wait to see what DE does with all of it because i sincerely believe that they have big plans for the future of the game's story and they're just trying to get all the systems in place first so they can tell it un-inhibited.
Play how you want to play! This is what youtube is for, to explain these things. That way, the next time you go in, maybe you'll take a look around and understand what you're looking at. The game doesn't do a really great job of putting it's story front and center, so you can't be blamed. But... yeah don't even worry about it! Or... do what I do. Every time I visit a tile I look through the details. DE's visual story telling, especially in the void, is very very good. The environment tells a lot about the orokin. Go out there, see what's around and figure out what moves you. That's what I do.
I think the lostus still love us bc in a video for the new war she sounded hesitant about killing us
Whoa , this video and your series really did open up a whole new view of the story for me.
If we were to take Man in the wall's side would we be basically destroyed as we wouldn't serve any purpose or would we still be "the caretakers" of our system ?
The wave is probably a void emp. The tenno are a void generator, normally using a conduit, which is evident with the war within and our operator. After the teshin love (golden maw) we learn to channel the void. Feels like the tenno are a void battery, using the conduit as a input signal generator. After teshin, we learned how create the signals. Probably the warframe is being overwhelmed signal-wise. Like a tf2 spy sapper on sentry, you can't tell it anything with interference, not even to self-destruct.
I believe that she is in the midst of an inner battle between the Sentient Control and herself. Her encoded message to us is her warning that she may not be able to last much longer and that we need to act quickly. Most likely finding the solution in the future Duviri Paradox. Hence why it's taking so long for DE to release it and yet excited to tease it.
I know that this "secret message" is kinda cheap, but I'm unfortunately a sucker for those and it still sent little chill down my spine.
You aren't alone... Did the same thing to me first time...
Hell yeah you have the best lore theory vids.
Well I didn't find this one on my own, I'm merely reporting on it but... this is huge, there's no doubt about it.
as always, i believe the tenno must save the lotus if we are to break the cycle of death and chaos. Everything so far has been a result of the orokin either directly or as a reaction spiraling out of control. If we kill the lotus (or let her die) , some other group will come to avenge her causing more chaos. It may even break apart toe tenno into multiple factions. as you said in one of your previous videos, balance is what is needed. what more balance can we ask for than a sentient pretending to be an orokin, working with the tenno?
There is some very sound logic you've got going on here. I like it.
This feels like how Peeta was brainjacked :P
Also 6:02 Ballas's right eye is eerily similar to our eyes when we are being led by Man in Wall (Wallman, if you will) :P
Like I've said before I will kill the Lotus when given the chance. I wad never really a fan of the mission operator.
I have been waiting for years for this.
I may have said this before but... at least you know your path. I respect it.
You DO realise that if this happens we'd just get another mission operator, or get stuck with glitch lotus permanently, right?
@@akhannar9368 nah, in essence I see the Tenno having the Lotus’s mind being stripped away from her sentient body in an attempt to preserve Margulis as a cephalon and kill Natah. That sounds really plausible tbh, basically Cyberpunk 2077 engram lmao
@@akhannar9368 I prefer cy or Teshin anyways.
This is amazing, I never saw that at all, amazing video!!
If she dies, then I can finally turn into the freelance mercenary that my character was meant to be. However, she did betray us even when she helped us destroy that higher evil which did not die.
She like Umbra a living puppet at this point.
For all that the Lotus has done for the Tenno (even the protag), she's become a liability: between Hunhow's influence and now this.
Knowing this may make the moment a bit sadder, but it's a moment that has to happen nonetheless.
Her duty is fulfilled; the Tenno have grown, having a far greater understanding of the world around them, and have the connections necessary to move forward on their own.
It's at this point that I can only hope her end can be brought about with as little pain as possible, and with *some* dignity intact.
Honestly, I’m thinking that if the theory about the Lotus being Natah’s Wally (based on her “eye” during the Erra cinematic and DsIEGE’s previous theory videos) is true, then it might be that the Lotus personality is being killed by Natah returning to her Sentient form due to the Sentients’ Void allergy.
That would also be consistent with the Duviri Paradox theory that seems to imply that the Tenno might be the Wallys of the original Zariman children, who are still stuck in the Void and are the older, de-powered Operators seen in the Duviri teaser. This makes a lot of sense narratively: assuming the New War ends with the reveal that the Lotus and Natah were separate entities the whole time, that would naturally lead the Tenno to wonder if *they* were “false” entities, leading to the Duviri Paradox. Albrecht Entrati’s lore seems to be laying the groundwork for some sort of reveal along those lines, and the Railjack Finger plus the weird incongruities that DsIEGE spotted in the previous quests seems to point heavily towards this reveal having been planned out far in advance of DE winds up going that way.
So coming back to this
Rebecca is suspiciously on vacation just as production on the New War is going full steam noting that it's "a much deserved vacation"
I think our wonderful community manager might have whipped out some tier 0 meta acting for this quest. Whether we do get to kill Natah or not is yet to be seen but it is clear that her role coming up will be HUGE.
I hope that either DE hires TheDsiege or there is someone working in DE carefully taking notes from his videos
The Man in the Wall (the bad tenno form) has been popping up in new locations in the Orbiter and I am really on edge because now
I'm not sure where else she will show up...
Did this change my mind? No. It BLEW my mind, LOL. Good work there.
We all needed to see this, I think... It wouldn't have been hard to miss during the mission.
You were right, I had NO idea this secret message was in the event... it's so fucking creepy and I love it.
I don't think the way our warframes shut down in Deimos and in the orphix cutscene are related, it could just be a way a warframe shuts down, like how a human puts their hands in front of them when they're falling over.
Anyway I think they're using the lotus to communicate with all sentient and co-ordinate JUST LIKE she co-ordinated the tenno forces and it may be killing her. That's what everything is telling me. Through all that communication she's letting leak specific codes that she's being made to communicate to us to get the code out.
Ah cool. I saw those messages band wondered what was up with them, but never noticed the letters and numbers.
Just... Wow... Now it looks like a great build up to New War... Tbh I really want to help The Lotus, because that "I AM DYING" just HAVE TO be a true Lotus message for Tenno... And after a New War I do not want to play without a Lotus :c Maybe this quest will be like "Lotus was helping and leading me, so now I have to save Her"...
damn.. i didnt never noticed that secret message ;____;
I don't think many people did, even if they saw and heard it during the mission!
@@TheDsIEGE well i heard what she sayed like every one, but i didnt noticed it because i was focused on the gameplay
So, it look's like the Lotus was captured by Honhow (if he survived the second dream) or by "The Mother" and they want to juse her for something improtant, that she dosent want to be part of and with that, they want to destroy the Tenno
Great video as always!Ty for discovering that msg,it is a game changer.Idk how many of you watched star trek but lotus been in this state reminds me of cpt Picard been assimilated by Borg and put as a leader of their army.Something/somebody is using lotus to deceive and control sentients.Might be ballas or whatever became of him or mysterious man in the wall, whoever he is...I call him grandpa.
As of now The New War is really close, and I seeing this video, think most of the facts and theories does seem to fit. From my understanding, I think as this, the "song" must be some form of ability no other sentient but Natah/Lotus possesses. Maybe their mother had it, which we do not know who or what is she. Pretty similar to Eidolons, conculysts or any or most sentient have a distinct howl or song, maybe of all of them Lotus has something special, which no other has. And it's hinted time and again, even by Erra.
And personally, it seemed clear Erra is upto something, which we cannot predict till we get to play the quest to come, Erra seemed more stubborn and child-like from the current quests and cutscenes. But all of us have seen the Demo atleast, to notice he has evolved some form of maturity. Much more like a fanatic of sorts. He seems to spare/abduct people from each race, who showed some form of bravery and hence confronts them with the "Don't be afraid!" phrase. Well it's only time we will find out!
As for Ballas, I can't say, he seems to be in the gray area, he's upto something alright. First, he gives us the Paracesis to fight Lotus and the sentients. But later in the Maker cutscene, you can see him being happy about it when Erra is manipulating over Lotus' mind. Even as Erra loses the leash, Ballas kinda stands up as if, him being enslaved was an act and he is part of the minds behind the invasion. Honestly, this guy seems weird man...
Nice video, it did cover all the important stuff, and that message from her commands and instructions, that was pretty neat and blew my mind lol. Thanks again to spread the word to us.
Her comments about being hollow and empty, then mentioning she sings before correcting it to the wind sings her emptiness makes it seem pretty clear to me that she is aware of the fact that it is her ability to sing that is the cause, but she is not the one singing, akin to holding a flute out into the wind and it creating notes. That 'throne' she is on could be allowing someone to hack her and use her without her being aware of it.
All of this to me though comes across more like she is thinking or speaking to herself and trying to figure something out than directly speaking to the Tenno. It could be the case that she is reflexively speaking to you through a comm channel without knowing it, thus giving the Tenno a look within her thoughts.
I didn't even know lotus could speak to you during Orphix venom, then again I hadn't done the sacrifice yet either I'm pretty sure
K I L L **Holds up Monster Energy**
LOL
*If I don't get to destroy her, Then I'm Not Playing This Game Anymore*
I had this crazy idea for a long time now, and this "I AM DYING" thing seems just one more clue. What IF the Entity inside Natah Has been Marghulis all along? She's the one who taught Transference to the Tenno. When she was sentenced to the Jade Light she may have been using Transference in order to survive. How could she know all about Marghulis, all about her stuff... I mean, I'm pretty convinced inside Natah, struggling for control and for survival there may be Marghulis herself...
I am dying could be a metaphysical death, in that the LOTUS or NATAH is being overridden and lost to whatever personality is taking control.
So, I'll try to unravel Natah/Lotus here.
There was the message "Margulis implantation intact" back when update 17 launched which brought the Natah quest.
It was written in Orokin text.
My assumption is, that the text means implating Margulis into the Sentient Mimic that is Natah (some kind of Transference?).
A process neither Natah nor Margulis had control over (probably).
Result was "The Lotus", Margulis' favorite flower but not Margulis 2.0.
Basically creating an Amalgam of mind. A bit like Alad V has done on a material level.
Erra saying "[...] because of what the Makers did to you" is pointing at this process.
Who did it? Ballas, I think. That's why he was still talking to Margulis, not Natah.
Maybe was tricked by the Sentient to help and revert this process (maybe he was promised a surrogate sentient body for Margulis' mind).
He gave us the sword because he now accepts defeat, Excalibur Umbra was a failure for him and now the Lotus project is a failure too.
So yes, Natah "deleting" Margulis makes sense. The Lotus is dying, this too might be inevitable.
Seperating either Natah or Margulis would kill the Lotus as we know.
Wow afternoon load!!! caught me off guard here. As always thanks for upload, Lotus dying is inevitable in my opinion. But, what if she was already dead like Margulis. Maybe she as the power to morph to a physical aspect when we first meet her. Maybe like in the sacrifice her true form is the one we see her in when she comes for Balas. ''I am a hollow vessel'' like our warframes. So much can be assumed but I dont want to fill the comment with a long text. lol Peace my friend and again thanks for the intense work you do to bring us your vue on the lore. By far the best available...
And when she message the I am dying. I feel the core Lotus is dying to become the sentient she was made to be.
If it’s the man on the wall, it would make sense on the previous comment that I made about Ballas being influenced and as a result killing Margulis. I assume the reason why Natah or Lotus is able to get control even if it’s a moment has to do with the Heart of Deimos. As long the heart pumps there will be a flow of void that keeps those affected or made form it alive, but if it stopped then the flow of the void stops and everything shuts down. So when Ophirix or alpha sentient created something similar to the heart of Deimos it’s affecting the flow of the void making almost like it was sick. So each time he does this is like the man in the wall is having a heart attack or small seizures. Also by doing this she is also dying as it both the man in the wall are linked like a Tenno and their warframe.
My other theory is that Lotus is suffering from a personality disorder. Old Natah vs the Lotus. This can explain why she’s terrified of the idea of releasing alpha sentient as well as the other version of her being fine with the idea that she did release him. And Lotus says she’s dying she’s probably saying that her old self is winning and is gaining control.
But hey, I don’t know much about the lore itself
i remember mentioning in our previous videos that she was being manipulated and controlled by erra and balles but i did not expect this it get more interesting
In Xata, the Jahu of Lohk comes in Vome (Lotus) and Fass (Wally) resulting in Netra but in Khra we as agents of the Ris shall overcome.
My brains smokin, trigger finger is dialed at the man in the wall and the lotus & I may have to either save or kill the lotus... Yep just another day in the warframe story
We do what we have to do as tenno, that much is certain.
@@TheDsIEGE Yea that's the scary thing we're either the equalizer, the good or the evil
That’s why i never miss a video... for years now!!
This may be the most important piece of lore In a long time.
I’m a logical person. And I never saw that lotus is bad. Yes she was programmed by Orikin but you can see a lot of human will inside of her, even as Natha.
It's possible the sentients used (S)Alad V's and Ballas' information on warframes and not the Heart incident, which explains why they're able to deactivate warframes but still can't combat anything void related
Maybe just maybe all the experience we have had is just a dream and we wake only to be greeted by the man in the wall next to lotus
Oh shit. I had no idea about the message. That pulls at my fucking heart strings, man.
I thought I was the only one who noticed this! D you are a goddamn genius. You should work for DE warframe lore department.. If you don't already.....
Natah is a sentient, you have to consider that the human Lotus is the "false personality", because of the sentient's plans to manipulate the Tenno. Maybe no one is controlling her, is simply her programs in conflict, remember that she is a robot with a AI. She was "born" sentient, Natah
Some people just can’t seem to understand that the Lotus never existed
@@kingatlanofatlantis3075 Yes, Lotus is just an AI based off Margulis, to control de Tenno
tbh if there is an entity in.universe that might know what's up and might have an interest in disrupting them it could be:
Hunhow.
As calculated as he is if he is truly seen as " dead" by the sentient conscience he might outa of the loop on their current plan, but he might still have a vested interested on Recovering Natah which could be a vector for interaction between the tenno and someone who has the sentient mindset.Last we got word ofhim he wasnt actually dead just trapped under the oceans of Uranus and using the Edgy boi as his "Avatar".