Li Auto - The Next Big Chinese Auto Manufacturer? | Disruptive Investing News
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Trend in China now is almost all Chinese PHEV models have large capacity batteries (15kwh to 45kwh) which enable them to run in pure EV mode from 50 miles to 140 miles. Everyone seems having figured out that the selling point of PHEV is that it can run as EV for daily commute while without range and charge anxiety on long distance travels. It is cheaper upfront purchase than EV, low running and maintenance cost than ice vichael and has all advantage features an EV has. Perfect. The key point here is the large capacity battery of PHEV. Li auto is the first company in the world to make PHEV with large battery with pure EV range over 120 miles.
I have had a 2023 ID4 Pro for a few months and have yet to go for a long drive that fully exhausts its 82 kWh battery. From a customer's point of view, most of the batteries you bought are idle for 80% of the driving time. This range extension idea is an attractive alternative so that you (1) do not pay for excessive battery; (2) use a lot less gas than a fully ICE car for the sake of the environment; (3) spend less time waiting for charging. I will go for one if Li Auto comes to the US.
it's not a lot less gas than a fully ICE, it a lot less gas than crappy hybrids!!
Li Auto's L8 is absolutely fabulous. They'll be releasing their 1st pure EV by Christmas. A MPV/Van
Thats why I invested in them a year ago. They are the only one which combine the BEV features with the only way that makes sense for a hybrid. You have a decent battery and a small ICE engine, which always runs on best efficiency to feed that battery. And they fill a wanted GAP in China. Would also sell very good here in Europa. German Angst of range fear would not be a problem anymore. Daily use you only drive electric and for long range traveling you still have the help of the engine and Diesel Dieter can drive his 1000km if needed.
it's not a lot less gas than a fully ICE, it a lot less gas than crappy hybrids!!
The TCO will likely be higher, due to all the added complexity of being a hybrid. In future, finding gas stations is going to be harder, so not sure this will be very practical beyond the next few years. A few more charging stations will solve the same problem with less expense and bother to the user.
Ideal for where I live in Canada. The odd long drive with limited charging…no worries. The other 90% of driving would be easily handled with couple hundred km of electric range. The perfect transition car to own for the next decade.
I think the range extender really is key. I started my journey to electric with a Chevy Volt and it was a fantastic car. I drove my volt about 14,000 miles/yr and only used about 30 gallons of gas, which is way better than a hybrid, which is what most people here go with. There are too many places where I live in the rural Midwest where pure electric is a problem. Look at the charger desert in North-Central Wisconsin. There are "edge" cases that many people here (including me) do a few times a month. Towing and especially cold weather are a problem. For example, towing a couple of snowmobiles when it's -10F drops my Model X range to about 90 miles. I towed the same sleds with my Volt without any range concerns.
I have a 2023 Model X and I still have half a dozen times per year where we have to use my girlfriends Toyota Highlander hybrid because my Model X can't make it. And I have to say, charging with the Model X while towing is a total pain. Most people would never consider it acceptable to have to unhitch the trailer in some remote lot somewhere so they can charge. It may not be common on the coasts, but here in the rural Midwest, it effects probably 20-30% of population.
I think range extended hybrid pickups and SUVs would be huge here. Pure electrics are a long way from meeting our needs.
I recently had a conversation with a gentleman who held strong reservations against electric vehicles, suggesting that a hybrid approach should be pursued first, if anything at all. I must admit, your points and the organization of information you presented truly resonate with me. It's not hard to envision trucks and SUVs utilizing hybrid technology as a means of towing assistance or range extension. @Ronald Houle also brought up a valid argument regarding the cost factor, which aligns with my perspective. I've often pondered the idea of next-generation trailers incorporating batteries or powertrains to alleviate the strain on the towing vehicle, but I admittedly lack knowledge in this area. I'm always eager to learn, so I greatly appreciate the insightful information you've provided to stimulate further contemplation and expand my thinking.
30$ of gas and how much for electric? carbon footprint is BIGGER than a gas car but I hope it makes you all fuzzy inside
I'm an American that has lived and worked full time in China for 16+ years. About 4 months ago I bought my first Chinese brand car, the Li Auto L7 and words can't describe how pleased I am with this car. The technology, the comfort, the driving experience, the entertainment system and smoothness from the air suspension is hard to put into words. I purchased the L7 Max which is considered the top of the line model but still is priced well below (1/2 the price of the EV BMW I was looking at) of the import EV's in the marketplace but twice the standard tech. I normally just use the electric motor since most of my daily commute is within the city but when I do hit the road I have the peace of mind knowing that with the range extender motor I have a range of 1,000+ kilometers. I'm not here to endorse or push their stock but I did add Li Auto to my stock portfolio when I purchased my car and the return has outperformed my expectations. Please do your own research .... The Big 3 need to wake up to see what is really going on in China when it comes to EV's
他们说中国道路状况差？我就很无语了，去西藏新疆都不需要越野车。这两蠢货。
Hello I'm very much interested in this car but I'm curious I do not speak Chinese is it possible to have everything in English including the voice assistant
Currently everything is in Chinese but my wife (who is Chinese) was told by a rep from Li Auto that within a month or two through one of the software updates English will be available. I will send you a reply once my car has the English system. @@michaelmomanyi6861
I have a 2017 Volvo XC90 T8 "PHEV" with a 10.4KW battery with a 20 miles range and a 2 litre petrol engine. The car when bought at the time was way ahead of its German rivals in tech with assisted driving, comfy air suspension and a great Bowers & Wilkins stereo. Still is the family favourite for its comfortable ride. Its such a joy to drive in EV mode but a very tired and noisy engine when driving in petrol mode makes it less of a joy compared to Audi Q7 or BMW X5. The newer Recharge version has a 18.6 KW battery extending the range to 40 miles but I think it is still way less than the practical EV range of 100+ miles the car should have been by now.The newer to come EX90 (EV only version of the car) offers new features such as 4 wheel steering and vehicle-to-load output which interest me in an upgrade but I would have gone for the PHEV version if it offered 100+ EV range with DC charging as the allrounder vehicle in the family . I also have a VW ID3 with 58 KW battery great for in city driving but is not a family carry all to everywhere substitute to the XC90 . The bottom line is that the Li 9 bridges that gap and enhances creature comfort for the younger passengers during long trips and that is "sweet spot' we are missing..
If they sell in Europe they will kill the game for sure!!
I prefer a BEV because I don't have to do oil changes and all the gasoline car engine maintenance. I had to change my water pump on my gasoline car (at 60K miles) for $900. Brake pads & rotors for ~$700. Do I need to do that on a Li vehicle? The range is nice but the maintenance cost? No thanks. I'm NOT going back to a gasoline car.
The stereotype of China is really serious, the most users of this car are the users of the German troika, because he can give the comfort configuration, completely more than the German car, urban electricity, long-distance gasoline, which is very convenient. And China's environment and climate is very good, you can come and have a look when you have time.
If Li Auto could integrate the system in a camper van or RV bus that would bust open an entirety new market here in Australia.
This seems disruptive in the near term but less so in the long term. However I do like that they put a decent size battery in the vehicle
What's more? LiAuto's SS Max (smart space) and AD Max (ADAS) are among the best in China. They built smart cars here in China! Also, unlike other companies, every thing is SELF DEVELOPED by LiAuto. The consumer electronic grade smart space, the state of the art ADAS system, and they really R&D hardware and software. The drive train, and XCU, chassis is also Self tuned by Liauto. In fact, they have one of the best vehicle tuning team in automotive industry.
LiAuto L9, L8, L7 are ranged extended vehicles. The difference is that you can drive daily on pure EV mode for weekdays. 215kms pure EV range. Extended range is 1315kms. if you want to go on a roadtrip, it doesn't rely on charging , just pump in fuel, very flexible! if you are in China, you are more than welcome to take my L9 out for a ride~
this type of EV called EREV (extended range electric vehicle)
i love this brand because it's making EV with a range extender, also BYD doing the same with their off road EREV. if they manage to bring INNengine to this masterpiece is going to be even better
This is what the volt could have evolved to if GM had any interest in changing.
Hi. Does anyone know when Li auto plans to go to Europe market?)
I think the LI 7 it has the perfect combination, no range stress for long trips and for the rest of the time, 90 % or more, you will move with battteries. The price is half of the Germany luxurie cars and i think they are even better.....i have share of Li Auto.
With all respect, some(if not most) of these messages are wrong... let me know if you need any information about LiAuto, because these are NOT Accurate.
I think hybrids, with a solar panel on the roof and hood to charge the battery on the fly or when parked would be good - and the extender could help to reach far places, etc. I'd like to see more of this on vans, and 4x4. not just soft SUVs. And the ability to power appliances is important these days.
Solar cells on cars do not deliver enough electric energy to be worth your money. They would cost more than they can generate.
A car has a usable solar area of about 2 square meters. Thats a max. of about 2 m² x 1050 Watt/m² in middle Europe x 20% efficiency or about 420kWh a year or up to 210,-- Euros per year in savings.
In Africa they could produce up to 750kWh per year or about 150,-- Euros savings per year - their electricity cost much less.
You could ask the scientists to develop solar cells with better efficiency tomorrow. They are working on them for more than 50 years now. And the breakthrough is just around the corner.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 You don't do this for the money but for the range, And/or to be able to run more electrical appliances for longer when stationary. Even if I accept your numbers to be correct 100 Kwh could produce 600 km range So in middle Europe according to your own calculations one could have 2500 Km a year in range. With a bit of clever engineering you could easily get another square meter of solar from the hood in addition to the two square meters from the roof when moving. When stationary you could deploy additional retractable solar doubling your surface. And solar efficiency these days is closer to 23% and rising. So I think even in middle europe you could easily get 5000 km a year with car mounted panels and in Africa twice that much with today's tech. One could travel way beyond the charging network and have a mobile power plant for cheap, and stay longer periods of time without the need of plugin to the grid which is also often unreliable. Plus if you stop you can deploy additional solar panels if you want more surface. The point is for the car to be designed with this in mind.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 @wolfgangpreier What are your thoughts on Aptera or the Lightyear0?
@@CapitalforHire they are clever ideas but Aptera as a 3 wheeler has various limitations, payload, 2 passengers, etc. LY0 was crazy expensive. The tech is not there for these 'pure' forms but hybrids with extender engines. Could fill a gap in the market at a much more reasonable price point. Vans esp. have much more flat roof space.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 You are right. I could see RV's doing well with solar deployment for shading and camping ect. I saw that ecoflow has a portable heat pump AC now that would go nicely with it. Appreciate the engagement.
This “range extender” system might be the best answer for Australians.
Let’s not beat about the bush it’s far more practical than just an electric vehicle.
At this point anyways, yes an all electric is environmentally better but until they conquer range anxiety I’m definitely in the market for something like a Li Auto L9, thing is it looks very similar to my Volvo XC90.
Wow, how uninformed are you guys? I don't even know where to begin with the things wrong with this video. Let me try and remember. Firstly, the L9 is Li's flagship, not the L7. Second, while Chinese families may generally be small along two generations, it is very common in China to have 3 generations of family in the car. The ADAS on this car is highly effective with lidar. Their cars have 3 15-inch screens, gesture control tech that actually works, twin 5G sim cards to cover both of China's major providers, twin Orix-X chips for 508TOPS of processing, and you can plug your PlayStation and Nintendo Switch onto the cars. You also get heating, ventilation and massage functions on both front and second rows on the L9 and heating on the third row. Chinese roads are not bad at all, certainly not compared to US roads, in fact they're considerably better. And Chinese families are not living in cramped apartments, the audience for this car is living in large apartments or houses with plenty of space, so they're not escaping their house to get into the car, they're getting in the car for family trips, increasingly to nature. With twin Snapdragon 8155 chips, their screens work an absolute treat, super fast, and they're 3k resolution too. The reason Lis are successful in China is because they're making cars that people want. Their founder founded Autohome, one of China's largest car websites, and the feedback they get on ALL cars goes into Li Auto cars. For so many customers who do long journeys, particularly those who travel at major holidays, queuing at service station chargers is not practical at all, and the EREV gives the confidence of knowing you're covered either way. The reason the L7 is cheaper than the ES8 is because they're not comparable. The L9 competes with the ES8, not the L7. In addition, Li are launching their full BEV models later this year with 800V architecture, and they've committed to offering their ADAS system free for life. These are the reasons people are buying Lis in their droves, not any of the reasons you're saying. If you want to know more, watch my video. I drove 1400km from Shanghai to Xi'an and back over the May holidays in the L8 and honestly, it is the best overall car I've ever driven, and our channel covers all Chinese cars because we live here. The L9 would destroy US competition if it was sold there, exactly the way it is obliterating the GLS and X7 in China. Here's the video. th-cam.com/video/_sHkkvj_7GE/w-d-xo.html If you want to get informed on China and Chinese cars, let me know, because if you're giving financial summary, you need to understand so much more about China than you do now.
No, the U.S. government has an all-purpose weapon: national security!😜
Also it's not like Li Auto is the only EREV manufacturer coming out of China. Long range EREV and PHEVs are already a huge market in China, with BYD DM-i cars, Geely Galaxy series, Changan Shenlan sub-brand etc. Even with that many competitors, Li Auto is still quite a bit ahead, and it isn't explained just by their cars have a smaller battery so they can save a bit of money on production. It really is the whole package the Li Auto offers at the price point they sell it at, which nobody else can match. A lot of product planning and engineering went into those cars, and it isn't just a matter of slapping all those features together into an SUV.
Almost all I can agree, but L9 is flagship of 6 seats SUV and L7 is for 5 seats.
@oliveryb You only get one 'flagship' in a range and it's the top dog, which is the L9, regardless of number of seats.
L7 is a packaging exercise
Are they profitable? Plug-in hybrids are expensive to produce. At their price point, is this product viable? What about reliability. Much more complicated than a pure EV. The Volt was discontinue because GM was loosing money on them. Etc. Etc.
I believe Li Auto has been turning profits since Q1 2023, which sets it apart from the other major Chinese EV startups like Nio or Xpeng, none of which have reached profitability.
They're more profitable than most of EV companies, even Tesla. Actually, extend range engine is much much cheaper than most of ICE.
I've been waiting for Chinese EVs. But realize I should just move to china.
2023-11, more than 40k was sold
So Li Auto is doing what the 2014 BMW i3 or the 2011 Chevrolet Volt did with a range extender, scooter motor in the case of the BMW, to extend range, or provide support for range anxiety. So should other car makers (beyond Tesla, Rivian and Lucid,) go this route to cut costs? Should GM, Ford and Stellantis design cars in this manner for the North American market in 2024 and beyond? I am not convinced. I would think you would be better off putting those hybrid engineering and packaging efforts into lowering BEV production costs. Although there would be Americans that would buy a series hybrid, but again at what cost. The short term ROI for a car company may look promising, but BEV engineering time would be lost and the likes of Tesla's BEV engineering efforts are not slowing down.
As a counter argument, GM Mary doesn't think GM will be profitable on BEVs for another 7 years. So, by that thinking they should go for series hybrids. This may work to get GM profits in the short term for a small car sold at volume and sell high priced BEVs until the engineering and production can catch up. But this all relies on a serious parallel mission to move the bulk of their fleet to BEV. Otherwise, it may be too little too late for GM to survive the BEV onslaught from BEV only makers like Tesla and BEV innovators from Asia.
*Arguments predicated on the assumption that a series hybrid could be made cheaper and thus more profitable than a pure BEV.
I like this! We said.
Li Auto does not use hybrid engines, different from for example the Prius. The cars are driven purely by electronic engines. The gas engine is for power generation only and it is a lot simpler in comparison to the ices.
"China has a lot of bad roads" How about buy yourself a flight ticket?
"All third party", my god, do your homework ok?
Unfortunately ~50% of what you guys said are not correct!
First, I can't believe the Chinese can afford to pay $50,000 plus for a car. Second, I'm 76 and don't want to leave home to go anywhere. The world is dangerous out there and way too expensive. I'll be dead soon enough, thank you. It seems the world I'm gonna miss is NOT worth a range extender.
This world is beyond your imagination
True.@@kangkai7903
啊，L9/L8/L7现在是中国最SUV销冠了。
2023 Oct&Nov Li auto has 3 cars which are L7/8/9, sales > 40K
You guys talk about China as if they are your enemy. 🤣