Man you nailed it. As an evangelical, with the Orthodox Church on 97% of topics, including this. Within my evangelical circles, the free grace (“OSAS”) doctrine is fairly popular. It’s so unbiblical that I have an easier time evangelizing to atheists. I have studied the canon and early church documents extensively and I’m only stuck on the Virgin Mary, iconography and praying to saints. Great video though.
I was stuck on the saints for a while. Point 1 is to understand that the saints pray for us like living people do, but as they are in heaven their prayers are always valuable to God, whereas we cam pray badly and without our hearts. 2 is to understand the role that God has made for the saints and I really recommend the Lord of Spirits podcast for this.
@@cpSharkBlastbro i was raised in the Free Will Baptist Church, everything he said(besides some of the big words that i dont understand) i was taught growing up
If we are justified because we share the life of Jesus, what precisely made God give us the life of Jesus for our justification? If the answer is something in us like faith, then the questions is, faith in what? If something in us, then justification is by that something. If it is by Jesus’s work of propitiation in his death, then faith in what God did through Christ is what justifies us.
nothing made God do anything, but scripture tells us it was the love of God (John 3:16). And it had nothing to do with an act of anything on our part because scripture tells us before the foundation of the world the lamb was slain. And because words matter: to define love I don’t mean emotion or affection(though God does have affection towards us), I mean His nature/energy of doing good for others even at a “cost” to himself (the cost being emptying himself and becoming a human clay to in order to die so that he could defeat death and remove the penalty of sin). his love is demonstrated through this act, not because the good is deserved by us, but because the good of God toward us is needed and because it would be impossible for Him to be something He is not. We the created are dependent on the creator, our source of life. He knows this even though many of us don’t He created us as the crown of creation and called us “very good” and His intent toward us has always been good (loving) so in His goodness He condescended, took on flesh becoming unified with it and ultimately glorifying humanity and providing a way back to communion/relationship with Him.
This is a really good video. I come from the Catholic perspective looking to get a good representation of eastern theology. I really enjoyed the friendship analogy. I’ve used something similar when explaining Trent on the same topic. In my similar analogy, I would say justification(or initial justification) is that change from enmity to friendship with God and sanctification(or increases in Justification) is the deepening of that established friendship.
@@anon8638 Its been a while since I watched this video, but I don't recall "particular denominations" being discussed, but instead was painting with a broad brush all Protestents, which is very misleading.
I'd enjoy hearing your take on the body-soul/mind-spirit relationship, if that's something you'd be interested in discussing sometime. I lean toward the tri-partite view, but I'm not totally sure one way or the other.
Please make a video on the new perspective on Paul. I am surveying lots of literature from the 2nd temple period and I think E.P Sanders and James Dunn and NT Wright are wrong. I wanna see your take on this topic.
I'm a protestant and I don't believe in once saved always saved and I believe works count. Without Jesus we can't do works we depend on Jesus. Without him him we can do nothing but that doesn't mean the we can live anyway and be saved. We change after we are saved and receive the Holy Spirit. I don't believe in total depravity. We can choose or reject God because we are made in the image of God
Romans 3 doesn’t say that we are justified because we share the life of Christ but because He manifested the justice of God in the atonement. justification has a connection to union and sanctification but only the first is what justifies, the act of Jesus dying for us after being perfectly obedient and so removing the wrath of God against us. It has a profound mental deliverance, is what makes us have a clean conscience, what removes the guilt and fear of future condemnation. And also what make us glory in God for his dying love for us, and giving us such a righteous status freely. This is in a sense to be taken as separate from the subjective work of the Spirit, and in another they are all together so that one could not have the one without the other.
Hi Marcos- I have a video on Romans 1-3 here: th-cam.com/video/cMMEuuiBtfc/w-d-xo.html I agree with you, in large part, about the importance of assurance of right standing with God for a healthy spiritual life, as I've talked about here: th-cam.com/video/OWq2ji8mZis/w-d-xo.html (there's also a much longer discussion on this channel about justification and assurance which spends a lot of time on the practical side of the question, I think it's the longest video on this channel, three and a half hours or so). While I don't think that propitiation is the best rendering of hilasterion in Romans 3, that's not to say that it's wrong in principle. On the substitutionary work of Christ and the way in which He receives that penalty under which the whole human race stood condemned, here: th-cam.com/video/ra8wgXvCMtw/w-d-xo.html I'd rather not summarize in the comments as I think the appropriate nuance is contained in the above discussions. As to your other comment there are things that could be said, but in a way I'm not sure that such directions are especially useful. The real question is whether scripture reasons things out in the way that you suggest. I notice you have a significant audience on TH-cam, so if you would like to do a stream together to discuss this issue I'd be open to that. My email is seraphimhamilton@gmail.com . That, I think, would be a format more conducive to identifying the hinges on which this discussion swings. please remember me in your prayers Serro (Kabane)
@@Seraphim-Hamilton I don’t really do live discussions on TH-cam, i do like email exchanges though, I find it easer. I did find some interesting videos on your channel I would like to listen to though. listened to your debate with Matt Slick as well and commented it, i think I understood your position. I think the evangelical churches do not use as they should those verses on union Christ but after hearing your perspective on Justification I could not agree with your sort of collapse between justification and union. May God keep you and lead you into the truth and I pray the same for me.
In other words, if I want to strengthen my faith, do a work of love. Works don't produce salvation or justification. Rather, works strengthen and perfect and refine faith, which faith produces justification.
Man you nailed it. As an evangelical, with the Orthodox Church on 97% of topics, including this. Within my evangelical circles, the free grace (“OSAS”) doctrine is fairly popular. It’s so unbiblical that I have an easier time evangelizing to atheists. I have studied the canon and early church documents extensively and I’m only stuck on the Virgin Mary, iconography and praying to saints. Great video though.
Same here
I was stuck on the saints for a while. Point 1 is to understand that the saints pray for us like living people do, but as they are in heaven their prayers are always valuable to God, whereas we cam pray badly and without our hearts. 2 is to understand the role that God has made for the saints and I really recommend the Lord of Spirits podcast for this.
Im a baptist. This makes a lot of sense. Help me .
Lord, have mercy.
@@nicodemuseam converted since then :)
@@cpSharkBlast ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@cpSharkBlastbro i was raised in the Free Will Baptist Church, everything he said(besides some of the big words that i dont understand) i was taught growing up
Thank you so much!! I was searching for this! God bless you!
A simple to understand concept, turns out not to simple for most.
Thanks for the video.
God bless
If we are justified because we share the life of Jesus, what precisely made God give us the life of Jesus for our justification? If the answer is something in us like faith, then the questions is, faith in what? If something in us, then justification is by that something. If it is by Jesus’s work of propitiation in his death, then faith in what God did through Christ is what justifies us.
nothing made God do anything, but scripture tells us it was the love of God (John 3:16). And it had nothing to do with an act of anything on our part because scripture tells us before the foundation of the world the lamb was slain. And because words matter: to define love I don’t mean emotion or affection(though God does have affection towards us), I mean His nature/energy of doing good for others even at a “cost” to himself (the cost being emptying himself and becoming a human clay to in order to die so that he could defeat death and remove the penalty of sin). his love is demonstrated through this act, not because the good is deserved by us, but because the good of God toward us is needed and because it would be impossible for Him to be something He is not. We the created are dependent on the creator, our source of life. He knows this even though many of us don’t He created us as the crown of creation and called us “very good” and His intent toward us has always been good (loving) so in His goodness He condescended, took on flesh becoming unified with it and ultimately glorifying humanity and providing a way back to communion/relationship with Him.
This is a really good video. I come from the Catholic perspective looking to get a good representation of eastern theology. I really enjoyed the friendship analogy. I’ve used something similar when explaining Trent on the same topic. In my similar analogy, I would say justification(or initial justification) is that change from enmity to friendship with God and sanctification(or increases in Justification) is the deepening of that established friendship.
You may be surprised that many Potestestents hold to the same view of Justification as you described is the view of the Orthodox Church.
Many Protestants believe all kind of stuff. Seraphim is discussing particular views of particular denominations.
@@anon8638 Its been a while since I watched this video, but I don't recall "particular denominations" being discussed, but instead was painting with a broad brush all Protestents, which is very misleading.
@@duanehensley8835 Protestantism isn't a single belief system at all.
This is such a great channel! I’m really surprised you don’t have more subscribers
Honestly the Orthodox understanding of justification by faith through works sounds pretty much the same as the Protestant
I'd enjoy hearing your take on the body-soul/mind-spirit relationship, if that's something you'd be interested in discussing sometime. I lean toward the tri-partite view, but I'm not totally sure one way or the other.
This sounds like the very theory that your fellow Orthodox reject requires double amputation requires penal substitution and your contradictory
I'm a Primitive Baptist, and we seem to have more in common with the Orthodox than I had previously thought.
Thanks for posting.
Please make a video on the new perspective on Paul.
I am surveying lots of literature from the 2nd temple period and I think E.P Sanders and James Dunn and NT Wright are wrong.
I wanna see your take on this topic.
Formally Informal www.exegeticalapologetics.com/2018/05/works-and-works-of-law-in-paul.html
I'm a protestant and I don't believe in once saved always saved and I believe works count. Without Jesus we can't do works we depend on Jesus. Without him him we can do nothing but that doesn't mean the we can live anyway and be saved. We change after we are saved and receive the Holy Spirit. I don't believe in total depravity. We can choose or reject God because we are made in the image of God
Romans 3 doesn’t say that we are justified because we share the life of Christ but because He manifested the justice of God in the atonement. justification has a connection to union and sanctification but only the first is what justifies, the act of Jesus dying for us after being perfectly obedient and so removing the wrath of God against us. It has a profound mental deliverance, is what makes us have a clean conscience, what removes the guilt and fear of future condemnation. And also what make us glory in God for his dying love for us, and giving us such a righteous status freely. This is in a sense to be taken as separate from the subjective work of the Spirit, and in another they are all together so that one could not have the one without the other.
Hi Marcos- I have a video on Romans 1-3 here:
th-cam.com/video/cMMEuuiBtfc/w-d-xo.html
I agree with you, in large part, about the importance of assurance of right standing with God for a healthy spiritual life, as I've talked about here:
th-cam.com/video/OWq2ji8mZis/w-d-xo.html
(there's also a much longer discussion on this channel about justification and assurance which spends a lot of time on the practical side of the question, I think it's the longest video on this channel, three and a half hours or so).
While I don't think that propitiation is the best rendering of hilasterion in Romans 3, that's not to say that it's wrong in principle. On the substitutionary work of Christ and the way in which He receives that penalty under which the whole human race stood condemned, here:
th-cam.com/video/ra8wgXvCMtw/w-d-xo.html
I'd rather not summarize in the comments as I think the appropriate nuance is contained in the above discussions. As to your other comment there are things that could be said, but in a way I'm not sure that such directions are especially useful. The real question is whether scripture reasons things out in the way that you suggest. I notice you have a significant audience on TH-cam, so if you would like to do a stream together to discuss this issue I'd be open to that. My email is seraphimhamilton@gmail.com . That, I think, would be a format more conducive to identifying the hinges on which this discussion swings.
please remember me in your prayers
Serro (Kabane)
@@Seraphim-Hamilton I don’t really do live discussions on TH-cam, i do like email exchanges though, I find it easer. I did find some interesting videos on your channel I would like to listen to though. listened to your debate with Matt Slick as well and commented it, i think I understood your position. I think the evangelical churches do not use as they should those verses on union Christ but after hearing your perspective on Justification I could not agree with your sort of collapse between justification and union. May God keep you and lead you into the truth and I pray the same for me.
I see this the same as what orotestants believe accet calvanist. Which is unbiblical.
In other words, if I want to strengthen my faith, do a work of love. Works don't produce salvation or justification. Rather, works strengthen and perfect and refine faith, which faith produces justification.