I just bought these and want to share that they are awesome and even if you have never done an alignment it is surprisingly easy. I am using a quick jack and these hubstands, probably took me an hour to an alignment for the first time. Beats the hell out of loading up on a trailer, waiting at an alignment shop then unloading again and checking that the shop actually tightened everything properly. Thanks for the video Keith!!
Subscribed yesterday. It'd been over a year since last upload. Instant gratification when this was posted today. Shoutout to Mr.Tanner for making my car so much fun to drive!
@DirtDude117 Setting the thrust angle will balance the toe on each side in the rear. In the front, the you'll turn the wheel until the toe is matched side to side - it'll pull to one side otherwise.
If the track width is different from front to rear. To measure/adjust the thrust angle, I should measure the front and rear toe plates first on the rear hubs, As long as both measure the same with the tapes, then run the lines from front hubs to back hubs and adjust the thrust angle? Am I correct?
Miatas do have different track width front to rear. You've got the idea. Set the toe on the front and rear wheels, then run the lines front to back and match the distance from the line to the toe bar left to right.
Can you fine adjust the heights of each corner on one hub stand? In order to make it perfectly level. I don't like zeroing out the angle gauge cause it could be somewhat inaccurate.
You want to make sure the surface the hub stands are sitting on are level. Squares of linoleum make good shims if you have to raise a corner to make everything level. The stands themselves are not adjustable for height, because that introduces error.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thx! One more concern: this method that you introduced for checking the thrust angle only ensures the front and rear aligns, but it doesn't ensure the front and rear align with the car itself (which really can only be checked by connecting the midpoints between the front and rear axles imo).
@@curtiszhi6861 It does indeed ensure the front and rear align with the car itself - ie, you have a 0 thrust angle. Sketch it out if it helps, but you cannot have a bad thrust angle and have that measurement the same on both sides. It does assume the subframes (aka axles) are centered in the car. That's a good assumption in a Miata.
You can reach in through the wheel well to access the eccentrics. Because these hub stands can roll around, we don't really recommend getting under the car with them mounted.
You don't. As long as everything is symmetrical as described, the thrust angle will be minimal. That's assuming the car has the same track side to side, this trick may not work on a car with a three-link solid axle that has a bit of side to side movement depending on how the Panhard rod is set up. But we're a Miata shop.
Why can't you use the "thrust angle" measurement notches to measure toe angle? Sure they need to be the same, but it looks like you can measure the toe with those notches also, instead of tape measures.
Because of track width differences between the front and rear and slight errors in steering angle. See my comment about above about these and using them to set thrust angles.
The math still works. The key is that you're looking for an equal distance on each side, not comparing front to back. The track width can be different - just like it is on this Miata.
Pretty cool device but not the best or most accurate method of setting thrust angle. You do still need to reference the front when setting the Thrust angle with these because the two cables are using the front as a relative reference. If the front is not equal at the same time as the rear, then the rear is not true to the center line of the vehicle. If the front is off, then when you set the rear being equal, you effectively made the rears true to that exact steering angle and not the actual vehicle center line. The only way to insure that you are as close as possible, accurate to the vehicle center line like it should be is if the fronts are reading the same on their two respective scales when the rears are reading the same on their respective scales. Now dont confuse this with all 4 having to read the same exact reading because the will likely not since virtually all cars out there have different track widths in the front vs rear. If all 4 happen to read the same, its strictly coincidence because the amount of toe and direction combined with the wheelbase happened to cause them all to be equal. The key is that the left and right at each end read the same at the same time between all 4. For example, if the fronts both read say 3 slashes in from the out side slash and the rears both read say 5 slashes in, then you know that both cables are at exactly the same angle relative to the vehicle center line and thus the thrust angle is zero. Now if say the front left reads 3 slashes and the right reads say between the 2nd and 3rd slashes(i.e., 2.5), and the rear reads the same (say 5 slashes on each side), then the vehicle actually has a thrust angle outside of zero because the cables are not at the same angle relative to the center line of the vehicle despite reading the same at the rear indicator scales. This is where chassis mounted string methods can be better for setting toe and thrust angles. As long as the strings are initially set up square to the chassis and equal distance on each side from the chassis center line, then you all angle relative to horizontal (i.e., toe and thrust) are square to the chassis when set to be the same on both side..
@@FlyinMiataVideo Oh ok, maybe I missed it in the video (sorry if I did). I thought it was just mentioned about not having to worry about anything with the front and I didn't want people to mistake that as being the the front doesn't matter when using the cables and scales for setting thrust angle since the front does matter.
Love the quality and dedication to the parts they make for the MX-5. True enthusiasts.
I just bought these and want to share that they are awesome and even if you have never done an alignment it is surprisingly easy. I am using a quick jack and these hubstands, probably took me an hour to an alignment for the first time. Beats the hell out of loading up on a trailer, waiting at an alignment shop then unloading again and checking that the shop actually tightened everything properly.
Thanks for the video Keith!!
Subscribed yesterday. It'd been over a year since last upload. Instant gratification when this was posted today.
Shoutout to Mr.Tanner for making my car so much fun to drive!
These look much better than the ones I ordered a few years ago. Great updates!
Very cool product.
Dumb question
Wouldn't the toe on one side of the car affect the reading on the opposite side?
@DirtDude117 Setting the thrust angle will balance the toe on each side in the rear. In the front, the you'll turn the wheel until the toe is matched side to side - it'll pull to one side otherwise.
If the track width is different from front to rear. To measure/adjust the thrust angle, I should measure the front and rear toe plates first on the rear hubs, As long as both measure the same with the tapes, then run the lines from front hubs to back hubs and adjust the thrust angle? Am I correct?
Miatas do have different track width front to rear. You've got the idea. Set the toe on the front and rear wheels, then run the lines front to back and match the distance from the line to the toe bar left to right.
@@FlyinMiataVideo understood. I just got the hub kit from you guys. I’m doing the alignment on an S14. It should be fun!!!
Are these 5x100 compatible?
Can you fine adjust the heights of each corner on one hub stand? In order to make it perfectly level. I don't like zeroing out the angle gauge cause it could be somewhat inaccurate.
You want to make sure the surface the hub stands are sitting on are level. Squares of linoleum make good shims if you have to raise a corner to make everything level. The stands themselves are not adjustable for height, because that introduces error.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thx! One more concern: this method that you introduced for checking the thrust angle only ensures the front and rear aligns, but it doesn't ensure the front and rear align with the car itself (which really can only be checked by connecting the midpoints between the front and rear axles imo).
@@curtiszhi6861 It does indeed ensure the front and rear align with the car itself - ie, you have a 0 thrust angle. Sketch it out if it helps, but you cannot have a bad thrust angle and have that measurement the same on both sides.
It does assume the subframes (aka axles) are centered in the car. That's a good assumption in a Miata.
Looks beautifull but they had to be a bit higher because i can´t move my body under the car to rotate eccentric bolts
You can reach in through the wheel well to access the eccentrics. Because these hub stands can roll around, we don't really recommend getting under the car with them mounted.
You still need a string box to square the toe to the car chassis though right?
You don't. As long as everything is symmetrical as described, the thrust angle will be minimal. That's assuming the car has the same track side to side, this trick may not work on a car with a three-link solid axle that has a bit of side to side movement depending on how the Panhard rod is set up. But we're a Miata shop.
Do they have wheel or feet? Id like to use these to set on my lomgacre scales
Wheels. They have to be able to move to allow the suspension to relax. They work well on scales, as of course the surface is level.
Why can't you use the "thrust angle" measurement notches to measure toe angle? Sure they need to be the same, but it looks like you can measure the toe with those notches also, instead of tape measures.
Because of track width differences between the front and rear and slight errors in steering angle. See my comment about above about these and using them to set thrust angles.
What do you do if the track width is different front to rear?
The math still works. The key is that you're looking for an equal distance on each side, not comparing front to back. The track width can be different - just like it is on this Miata.
I BUY~~~!!!
Pretty cool device but not the best or most accurate method of setting thrust angle. You do still need to reference the front when setting the Thrust angle with these because the two cables are using the front as a relative reference. If the front is not equal at the same time as the rear, then the rear is not true to the center line of the vehicle. If the front is off, then when you set the rear being equal, you effectively made the rears true to that exact steering angle and not the actual vehicle center line. The only way to insure that you are as close as possible, accurate to the vehicle center line like it should be is if the fronts are reading the same on their two respective scales when the rears are reading the same on their respective scales.
Now dont confuse this with all 4 having to read the same exact reading because the will likely not since virtually all cars out there have different track widths in the front vs rear. If all 4 happen to read the same, its strictly coincidence because the amount of toe and direction combined with the wheelbase happened to cause them all to be equal. The key is that the left and right at each end read the same at the same time between all 4. For example, if the fronts both read say 3 slashes in from the out side slash and the rears both read say 5 slashes in, then you know that both cables are at exactly the same angle relative to the vehicle center line and thus the thrust angle is zero.
Now if say the front left reads 3 slashes and the right reads say between the 2nd and 3rd slashes(i.e., 2.5), and the rear reads the same (say 5 slashes on each side), then the vehicle actually has a thrust angle outside of zero because the cables are not at the same angle relative to the center line of the vehicle despite reading the same at the rear indicator scales.
This is where chassis mounted string methods can be better for setting toe and thrust angles. As long as the strings are initially set up square to the chassis and equal distance on each side from the chassis center line, then you all angle relative to horizontal (i.e., toe and thrust) are square to the chassis when set to be the same on both side..
We do recommend matching the measurement side to side, but not front to back. We're in agreement there. And yes, the front wheels need to be straight.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Oh ok, maybe I missed it in the video (sorry if I did).
I thought it was just mentioned about not having to worry about anything with the front and I didn't want people to mistake that as being the the front doesn't matter when using the cables and scales for setting thrust angle since the front does matter.
The music is ruining this video.