Awesome video, I really like the visual representation of what we are hearing. Any chance you could do a similar video comparing the mid humps of tube screamer, klon and dumble type pedals? Also, it would be interesting to see how the tone stack changes with different guitars.
looked like on the Fender tone stack if you cut both the bass and treble Shelfing filters it looks like it would be flat, but with a huge cut in output.
It would nice to have a guide for getting flat eq on various amps. It's common to run multieffects / amp sim pedals into the Fx return of amps, but then you lose any type of global tone adjustment on gigs.
GREAT video. Ive been trying to find out the envelopes of these tone stacks and found this. Bravo!! No wonder the fender is “chimey” and marshall is “meaty” and why i prefer gibson scale length guitars on fender amps. Bravo thanks!
I'm assuming this is only taking the electronics into account, and not the acoustics of the speaker enclosure. Now, my ears arent super trained, so I can't tell by just listening yet, but is it a possibility that the mid scoop compensates for the frequency response of the speakers? For example, if the speaker had a natural mid boost, then technically the response would be relatively flat.
Interesting question, also, every different speaker + cab combo has is how characteristic frequencyresponse, most cutoff the highs at about 5kHz. Which makes these bodeplots again appear very different if measured with a "flat response" microphone.
By the time acoustic and other mechanical engineering is taken into account it get insanely complicated. In simple terms. Amp will sound different from each point of space and space that it is within will change perceived response greatly. Also then come neurology, psychology, psychiatry... Better stay in electronic only domain. Also about speakers in guitar amps. Pretty mucha all of them have variation of freq response similar to this speaker. www.eminence.com/pdf/WheelHouse_150.pdf
So, the question this begs is, why don't any of the big guitar amp manufacturers make a tone stack with a truly flat EQ? AKA a tone stack where all knobs set on noon, the frequency response is even? Or if most tone stacks have to be passive for cost purposes, why doesn't an amp manufacturer make an amp whose frequency response is flat when all EQ knobs are set at max? As someone who has owned a few Fender amps, it's pretty remarkable seeing a visual representation of how darn scooped a Fender amp is. You can hear it when you play any Fender, but seeing it represented visually proves how dramatic it is... And again, it begs the question of why are they choosing to do it this way? Does anyone make a tone stack with a flat EQ? If not, why not? Could you, as an expert, lend some insights into this? Great video.
It’s been done before, for example by using a baxandall type of eq. However, to really answer accurately would require an in depth look at designing amp circuits. For example, if you have an amp that has a mid boost around 800hz yet implement an eq that has a mid *dip* around 800 hz then the net result isn’t really a mid cut. Some amps have also had active eq stages which would or could technically be more flat but also pose other problems or consequences of some sort. It also gets a bit more philosophical, such as the theory that a truly flat response amp sounds quite bad for guitar.
Always enjoy your videos! thanks!! Are those curve representing the output before cab? Take into account of human perception of frequency vs loudness, is it possibly a Twin will sound neutral after cab hearing by human ears?
ive got a line 6 helix and a fender blues jr the tweed one with the jensen in it. i usally use the helix with the dual fusion , but when i can crank the amp im wondering what would be the best speaker for a fender strat into a dual fusion, into a blues jr? et 65 im thinking. i want a nice chewy tone on the neck pup
I thought some amp EQ are “interactive” but always forget the order. I thought some had it that if you lower a freq the other frequencies have less to work with, etc.?
Some of them use Baxandall/James type EQs, if I recall correctly. The amps most known for using them are Ampegs (both their bass amplifiers and some of the old guitar amps like the V4).
Thanks. I thought of 5 the same as "normaling the board", it clearly is not. It's a good "starting point", some point of reference. So they all attenuate right off the bat? When I turn off the "eq" section on my Big Muff it gets much louder, is that the reason?
Yes, they all attenuate (pretty much) on tube amps. Not so much on effects. But yes, the big muff will get louder if you bypass the eq, since you won't have the "insertion loss" as mentioned - it'll drive the next gain stage harder and be louder.
Hello! I've been checking out your videos about tone controls in pedals and amps and I need a bit of clarification on the way they affect the frecuency spectrum of the sound. As far as I can go, there are from single tone controls to 8 band type of eq's, and each of them can vary in the way the bandwith and the frecuencies they affect are set/programmed/voiced. As an example, I see that the single tone control in a Rat or a Big Muff are completely different, as a three band eq can vary from a circuit to another. Could you make a video summarizing the main types and ilustrating how they work? (maybe in logic, so we can see the soundwave and how the tone control knob/s is/are affecting it?). I'm into customized pedals and I'd like to know better which tone circuit is more suitable for me/my pedal projects. Thank you very much, I really appreciate your videos and your work. Best
Does anyone have the schematic for a Peavey Valveking II tone stack? I've known that tone stacks weren't flat for quite some time, which leads to problems in some applications like if you're running a separate pre amp ahead of your amp. I have a complete Rockman preamp and effects module setup, but if I want to use it with a regular guitar amp I have to bypass the tone stack, hopefully done by plugging in to the effects return. Otherwise I have to run through a transistor PA amp. I would rather keep the warmth of a tube amp in my rig. Any suggestions?
Can you tell from that software where exactly are freq centers and what's the Q value? I was hoping to recreate Marshall EQ in my DAW with a basic eq plugin.
Thanks Brian. It would be cool if an amp had a stack that affected the guitar tone before the preamp, and an effect that shaped the tone post distortion.
So if I want my amp (it's a Roland Cube 1st generation) to 'take' effects and amp models better (from a PodXT Live), should I roll off the bass and the treble, and increase the mid?
So it doesn't matter how 'transparent' your overdrive pedal is if you're using an amp. So I wonder how flat the eq is on a PA. I'm guessing you have to hack out a bunch of mids to get a PA to sound like an amp.
I see it as flat in the sense that it's the eq curve the manufacturer intended to give the amp it's character. I always start there even knowing it's not actually flat. If I don't like the sound that way it's because my taste in tone is different from the amp designer so the amp is not for me. In my view the eq pots are only there for small compensation to the specific guitar and/or room. PS - Electric guitar on true flat, hi-fi amp is a very ugly thing...
That said, guitar with a nice compressor into a hi-fi is a lot better. The lack of harmonic enrichments and flat EQ response of a hi-fi set is the opposite of what an electric guitar needs, but it's probably the fast dynamics of the hi-fi what's most irritating. It's the same with solid state amps in general IMO. Compressors compensate for this and can go a long way.
So. hypothetically. I remove the knobs. Then adjust their offsets rolling only the pins of the pots. Then I put back in place the knobs at noon... and... ? Voila?
I tried to get it to work on a 'virtual machine' within my mac g5, but no luck. Back when I was really into modding & building amps, I needed this program. I'm shocked no one has made a mac friendly version.
I immediately drop the video when I tune in to see tone stacks and it starts with goats. If I wanted goats I would have searched for goats. If you think you are that great , it tells me to ignore all you do, respect your audience.
Love these " Explanation Vids " keep em coming please !!!!!!
I'm new to fine-tuning my EQ and found this both fascinating and helpful. Thank you and your lovely animals 😁
My new favorite video on YT. Really dug this video Brian, Thanks!
Awesome video, I really like the visual representation of what we are hearing.
Any chance you could do a similar video comparing the mid humps of tube screamer, klon and dumble type pedals? Also, it would be interesting to see how the tone stack changes with different guitars.
I am going to down load the "Tone Stack" right away ... thanks for the video!
looked like on the Fender tone stack if you cut both the bass and treble Shelfing filters it looks like it would be flat, but with a huge cut in output.
yes, or a simple voltage divider will do the same thing (IE volume type control)
Tone Stack Calculator and Spice? You're making music to the ears of this engineer and guitar player ;-)
It would nice to have a guide for getting flat eq on various amps. It's common to run multieffects / amp sim pedals into the Fx return of amps, but then you lose any type of global tone adjustment on gigs.
GREAT video. Ive been trying to find out the envelopes of these tone stacks and found this. Bravo!! No wonder the fender is “chimey” and marshall is “meaty” and why i prefer gibson scale length guitars on fender amps. Bravo thanks!
Learn something new everyday....very interesting...thanks Brian 👍👍👍
so very cool! also absolutely enlightening, while brief
Awesome video. Thanks!
Great video! this is exactly the information I was looking for.
More interviews with the cat!
...and the goats for a balanced viewpoint.
Yeah - because there aren't enough cats on the Internet as it is... :P
wow man!! this explains so many things!!! Thanks a lot!!
Great Video! That would be interested to compare that with amp simulation software...
Really interesting! Thank you man
I'm assuming this is only taking the electronics into account, and not the acoustics of the speaker enclosure. Now, my ears arent super trained, so I can't tell by just listening yet, but is it a possibility that the mid scoop compensates for the frequency response of the speakers? For example, if the speaker had a natural mid boost, then technically the response would be relatively flat.
Interesting question, also, every different speaker + cab combo has is how characteristic frequencyresponse, most cutoff the highs at about 5kHz. Which makes these bodeplots again appear very different if measured with a "flat response" microphone.
By the time acoustic and other mechanical engineering is taken into account it get insanely complicated.
In simple terms. Amp will sound different from each point of space and space that it is within will change perceived response greatly.
Also then come neurology, psychology, psychiatry...
Better stay in electronic only domain.
Also about speakers in guitar amps. Pretty mucha all of them have variation of freq response similar to this speaker.
www.eminence.com/pdf/WheelHouse_150.pdf
Best Intro EVER!!!
What an interesting video! Im accidently getting in to pedal making. I love electronics.
Wow. Shout-out to the SPICE program. College memories. :-)
How about Mesa Boogie, Bogner, and Hughes and Ketner? Would love to know their base frequencies.
A Wah-mpler would be cool
LOL love the goats and the wha-mpler 😂😂😂
So, the question this begs is, why don't any of the big guitar amp manufacturers make a tone stack with a truly flat EQ? AKA a tone stack where all knobs set on noon, the frequency response is even? Or if most tone stacks have to be passive for cost purposes, why doesn't an amp manufacturer make an amp whose frequency response is flat when all EQ knobs are set at max? As someone who has owned a few Fender amps, it's pretty remarkable seeing a visual representation of how darn scooped a Fender amp is. You can hear it when you play any Fender, but seeing it represented visually proves how dramatic it is... And again, it begs the question of why are they choosing to do it this way? Does anyone make a tone stack with a flat EQ? If not, why not? Could you, as an expert, lend some insights into this? Great video.
It’s been done before, for example by using a baxandall type of eq. However, to really answer accurately would require an in depth look at designing amp circuits. For example, if you have an amp that has a mid boost around 800hz yet implement an eq that has a mid *dip* around 800 hz then the net result isn’t really a mid cut. Some amps have also had active eq stages which would or could technically be more flat but also pose other problems or consequences of some sort. It also gets a bit more philosophical, such as the theory that a truly flat response amp sounds quite bad for guitar.
Always enjoy your videos! thanks!!
Are those curve representing the output before cab? Take into account of human perception of frequency vs loudness, is it possibly a Twin will sound neutral after cab hearing by human ears?
lol i found ur videos a few weeks back, got one of ur dual fusions, i luv it, im prolly gonna end up with a ego next
ive got a line 6 helix and a fender blues jr the tweed one with the jensen in it. i usally use the helix with the dual fusion , but when i can crank the amp im wondering what would be the best speaker for a fender strat into a dual fusion, into a blues jr? et 65 im thinking. i want a nice chewy tone on the neck pup
Damn, I hoped you'd talked more of the baxandal EQ as I've got an Ampeg GVT15. A great amp but the EQ section is a bit confusing at first.
damn the outro is great
I thought some amp EQ are “interactive” but always forget the order. I thought some had it that if you lower a freq the other frequencies have less to work with, etc.?
I'm tellin yah need to build a uni vibe and call it the calico vibe
I love how the fender just gives you automatic headroom
Ive been wondering why I have been running my KT66 BB style amp with mids right up and treble down a tad.
that cat knows whats up, more Univibe please ,lol.
I'm not saying this went over my head, but I understood the animals better than the EQ talk.
So the Black 65 replicates the Fender BF tone stack, I'd guess?
How about an active dual channel para eq pedal?
You cannot cut through the mix when you scoop the mids. I like to increase C1 on a Marshall tone stack from 470pF to 1nF or so.
what would the eq be for an acoustic guitar, say i wanted to make my les paul sound as close to my dreadnaught as possible.
Can you show the bravado tone stack in relation to these?
But what about the presence and resonance control?
So if i use a fender amp with a big muff, i should make the fenders eq as flat as possible by decreasing the bass and treble?
What about something like an old Orange or Matamp?
Some of them use Baxandall/James type EQs, if I recall correctly. The amps most known for using them are Ampegs (both their bass amplifiers and some of the old guitar amps like the V4).
Thanks.
I thought of 5 the same as "normaling the board", it clearly is not.
It's a good "starting point", some point of reference.
So they all attenuate right off the bat?
When I turn off the "eq" section on my Big Muff it gets much louder, is that the reason?
Yes, they all attenuate (pretty much) on tube amps. Not so much on effects. But yes, the big muff will get louder if you bypass the eq, since you won't have the "insertion loss" as mentioned - it'll drive the next gain stage harder and be louder.
What are Ampy Cues?
Hello! I've been checking out your videos about tone controls in pedals and amps and I need a bit of clarification on the way they affect the frecuency spectrum of the sound. As far as I can go, there are from single tone controls to 8 band type of eq's, and each of them can vary in the way the bandwith and the frecuencies they affect are set/programmed/voiced. As an example, I see that the single tone control in a Rat or a Big Muff are completely different, as a three band eq can vary from a circuit to another. Could you make a video summarizing the main types and ilustrating how they work? (maybe in logic, so we can see the soundwave and how the tone control knob/s is/are affecting it?). I'm into customized pedals and I'd like to know better which tone circuit is more suitable for me/my pedal projects. Thank you very much, I really appreciate your videos and your work. Best
Does anyone have the schematic for a Peavey Valveking II tone stack? I've known that tone stacks weren't flat for quite some time, which leads to problems in some applications like if you're running a separate pre amp ahead of your amp. I have a complete Rockman preamp and effects module setup, but if I want to use it with a regular guitar amp I have to bypass the tone stack, hopefully done by plugging in to the effects return. Otherwise I have to run through a transistor PA amp. I would rather keep the warmth of a tube amp in my rig. Any suggestions?
Can you tell from that software where exactly are freq centers and what's the Q value? I was hoping to recreate Marshall EQ in my DAW with a basic eq plugin.
Are tone stacks pre or post the preamp tubes?
Depends on the circuit. Some come before the majority of gain stages, others come after most of the clipping/distortion takes place
Thanks Brian. It would be cool if an amp had a stack that affected the guitar tone before the preamp, and an effect that shaped the tone post distortion.
the kitty is smarter than us all 😉
yea but what about Blackstar amps
What is this software? How did you make that?
Online tone stack calculator
I really love It
So if I want my amp (it's a Roland Cube 1st generation) to 'take' effects and amp models better (from a PodXT Live), should I roll off the bass and the treble, and increase the mid?
Ah ha, this is why you make the videos.... you get tired of talking to the goats! Good stuff, very informative, thanks!
would have been interesting to explain why most guitar amps have to be mid scooped
most of the hiss tends to be in the midrange if i remember correctly so it might be something to do with that
New toy, thanks!!
I love your videos Mr. Wampler! I agree with the goats, you should build a Wah!
I think you should've shown the Bravado at noon on the graph
I can draw it up in a bit.
very practical... (:
come for the circuits, stay for the goats
This helped
So it doesn't matter how 'transparent' your overdrive pedal is if you're using an amp. So I wonder how flat the eq is on a PA. I'm guessing you have to hack out a bunch of mids to get a PA to sound like an amp.
I see it as flat in the sense that it's the eq curve the manufacturer intended to give the amp it's character.
I always start there even knowing it's not actually flat. If I don't like the sound that way it's because my taste in tone is different from the amp designer so the amp is not for me.
In my view the eq pots are only there for small compensation to the specific guitar and/or room.
PS - Electric guitar on true flat, hi-fi amp is a very ugly thing...
That said, guitar with a nice compressor into a hi-fi is a lot better. The lack of harmonic enrichments and flat EQ response of a hi-fi set is the opposite of what an electric guitar needs, but it's probably the fast dynamics of the hi-fi what's most irritating. It's the same with solid state amps in general IMO.
Compressors compensate for this and can go a long way.
This video was very helpful and interesting. That being said...
Do you have rabbits? If yes, can we see them?
So. hypothetically. I remove the knobs. Then adjust their offsets rolling only the pins of the pots. Then I put back in place the knobs at noon... and... ? Voila?
nice goats! Your cat is right, uni-vibe!
thanks eh!welldone visual aids and everything..lol..was more curious about the science ...end of the day the ear is boss ..sounds good ..is good..
peanut butter rees'es cat .... run cat, dont let him get you
Team Cat...
June 23 1974
June 18 1976
Hey Brian
Moar cat pls
looks like the goats dont eat much grass (thats what the cat told me )
Brian, why are you so red?? Turning into a Pinacle??
I tan red. I have a lot of grass to mow, therefore the sun makes me look red. :)
It is motivating to realize that even an electronics superstar also has to do small household services sometimes.
who couldn't stop looking at the windows UAC shield??
+zillathegorilla I hear ya. I despise pc's, but the program won't work on a mac
I tried to get it to work on a 'virtual machine' within my mac g5,
but no luck.
Back when I was really into modding & building amps, I needed this program.
I'm shocked no one has made a mac friendly version.
I have had success running it on my Mac using the WINE windows emulator.
But macs are pc's.
This is WHY if you attach a guitar to yor stereo it wil play like shit.
Pickups are quite citophonic . The amplification need to kill the 900 hz band
Cats.
I immediately drop the video when I tune in to see tone stacks and it starts with goats. If I wanted goats I would have searched for goats. If you think you are that great , it tells me to ignore all you do, respect your audience.
I thought this was common knowledge, is it not?
Goats are awesome and cats are idiots.