@Andrew. There is no cable (wire) involved. Obviously the safety line needs to be tied down if it is to do any good. There is one harness for safety and a chair for comfort. With this setup, any single thing can fail and you will not fall. If the chair fails, you are in the harness. Nothing in common between the safety and the main climbing gear.
Rainer Zufall Two points. There is only one harness. I don't trust the chair and I don't want to use just a harness. I will try the method you describe with the GriGri. I also find that feeding the line through the carabiner makes for a much better ride down. Much smoother and easier to control. It ads a bit more friction and makes the feed over the GriGri better. That in combination with your suggestion might work well. Thank you. I will update the post after I try it.
+Allen edwards This isn't a "suggestion". It's a very well established practice. Here's how you rappel with a GriGri (which is what you are doing): 1. Reach top of route (mast in this case) 2. Anchor your harness into two secure points on top of mast. Lots of ways to do this, I use a Metolius Personal Anchor, or two quickdraws. 3. Test weight on those anchors by taking weight off of whatever device you were using before (in this case your ascender). Make sure that your anchor is supporting you. 4. Remove the device you were using before (in this case your ascender) 5. Put your GriGri on the line and clip it onto your harness. Make sure there is some sort of autoblock (e.g. prusik) ON THE SAME ROPE AND ABOVE YOUR GriGri. Hold your left hand on the prusik, right hand on the break strand. 6. Remove your anchor. 7. While keeping your right hand on the break strand use your index to push the GriGri upper half down to lower yourself, hold onto the prusik with your left hand so it keeps going down. If your GriGri fails just let go with your left hand and the prusik will lock up. Please don't invent your own methods, they are unnecessarily complicated and not very safe.
if you dont like the grigri you should give the edelrid eddy belay device a go, you belay much smother than with a grigri and it has a super panic function. this locks the device when the lever is pulled to hard! also instead of using a prussik i would use a petzl asap. this will stop any fall and you dont have to re adjust it all the time, it does it by itself
If you look when he reaches the top of the mast, the rope is tied to the sail rigging in such a way that you could climb either half of the rope, it’s not a looped system so the prusik on the other rope is fine.
The prusik is a safety line and should share nothing with the main climbing line. different line, different harness, different halyard. More reciently I found that when at the top of the mast and standing up on the foot loops, the gri-gri goes slack and when you first sit back down you get the unpleasant surprise that nothing is holding it to the line until you fall a bit. I have stopped using this and am back to my initial "Unassisted Mast Climbing" method. Read it on my web site or search for it on TH-cam.
I have a new video on GriGri based mast climbing that solves some of the problems in this method. Please see L-36.com and the article on More Unassisted Mast Climbing.
I like how you say you don't trust the Bosuns Chair, but after review of your video, maybe you shouldn't trust yourself. You didn't even connect the chair to the rig properly. The carabiner is only connected to the small piece of red flat webbing, instead of being connected to the main load bearing connection point on the chair. Next time run the carabiner through the small red AND the big yellow loop. Until you learn to check and double check, you are one of the small exceptions of people who SHOULD have the need to wear a 2nd harness. Complacently Kills. Hopefully you have the chance to read this, and are not already dead.
I've never used a prusik on a cable since I'm a climber, but I'm concerned that your cable is free to move. Make sure the other end of the cable is tied down so that it cannot move. Otherwise, the prusik will just take the cable with you as you fall. Also, why two harnesses?
My comments may look a little odd. That is because someone keeps making comments, waiting for me to reply, then deleting their comment. But please, don't pick at this method. It is not recommended and the other method I propose is just better so use it.
I don't recommend this technique. This video is part of an article on L-36.com. I show it as it is interesting but I don't recommend it. I said that in the initial post 2 years ago. Please see L-36.com for what I do recommend. As far as putting the prusik above and on the same line, that violates one of the principles I had in designing this system. The recommended technique has none of these problems and is 100% redundant, allows one to go up or down without re-rigging anything. It does not use a gri-gri.
***** I guess I don't understand. The prussic isn't an issue. I am just using it as backup and got the line from REI already made up as a prussic. I have no idea what size it is, sorry.
Allen Edwards I don't know anything about sailing. Although I always want to try it. The feeling of freedom most be awesome! But I am a rockclimber. And we use a grigri for belaying the other climber. The grigri almost never fail. But you don't want to take the risk. Because you don't want to die or so. So what I've learned you should never let go of the rope. But it's a beautiful instrument. Didn't know they use it for sailing to.
Eyeyey Sailors on mountaineering ^^....hehe Ok, the second harness is simply stupid, ..but the method itself seems to be ok IF the Prusik-line is independent. But talk about the prusik, while rappeling (abseilen) you should hold the prusik itself also in your closed hand together with the rope which is going itno the grigri, (and by the way turn it around thumb up) so it flows fluently in your hand, and locks up if something goes wrong, but you will be abel to go down in a fluent way. And you don´t have to readjust it all the time.
+josh king. For the last time. Don't use this method. That said, this method is clearly safer than what you are suggesting because it is 100% redundant because it uses two ropes and what you are suggesting uses only one rope. That gives your suggestion a single point of failure. One of my criteria was no single point of failure can cause a fall. But the other method is better for climbing a mast.
I think you have weak abdominal muscles because you don't climb often. To stop the tendency of wanting to go over backward in your harness without using your stomach muscles, just make a simple figure eight chest harness and connect the chest loops with a carabiner which you can then hook up to the climbing line or harness waist carabiner. You can then lean back without worrying about falling backward. It makes it a lot less tiring although you will probably have to unhook the chest harness to get on top of the mast.
Look for a new video soon showing a new method that has none of the issues that the GriGri has. I expect to have it finished in about 2 weeks. With this new method, I no longer use the GriGri method and I never did recommend it. It was fun but the new method is much better for the task at hand. My stomach muscles are indeed stronger than they were when I made this video so that may play a role. That said, the issues I had when I did this video were not at all about going over backward. I never worried about that. Thanks for the help though. I really appreciate the comments.
I don't recommend this. It takes practice and training and for occasional use, I like other ways. The first time you try using a GriGri it will probably scare you to death. See L-36.com for a review of 6 methods.
You should NEVER need a second harness that's ridiculous, the prussik can be on the same line as long as it's below the gri gri, there is no need for a second rope
Josh keeps deleting his comments which makes my replies show up below his reposting. Strainge. Anyway, see Unassisted Mast Climbing. It is probably listed on the right or see L-36.com for details.
I do not recommend this method. See L-36.com for what I do recommend. But I do recommend using two halyards with the prussik on the second halyard. If you trust your life to a char, sure skip the harness. Or if you want to be suspended from a harness, skip the chair. Personally I do not trust the chair with my life and I do not want to be suspended from the harness, which I would be much more likely to trust. I also would not trust my life to a single halyard. But it is your life so make your own choices.
@@CookieMonsteeerrr My goal was to have the system be 100% redundant and that includes the halyard failing. You could connect the chair or harness to the ascender and then only have the halyard to worry about but that is not a choice I would make. But completely up to you.
@@CookieMonsteeerrr No problem. We all have to evaluate how much risk we are willing to take. I used to have crew haul me up on a single halyard. I would never do that now but lots of people do.
Thank you for the detailed demonstration of the Grigri in action. It helped me decide what equipment to buy.
I am happy you found it useful.
Thank you for this video.
I have used same procedure to climb my mast, and it was very easy.
@Andrew. There is no cable (wire) involved. Obviously the safety line needs to be tied down if it is to do any good. There is one harness for safety and a chair for comfort. With this setup, any single thing can fail and you will not fall. If the chair fails, you are in the harness. Nothing in common between the safety and the main climbing gear.
Rainer Zufall Two points. There is only one harness. I don't trust the chair and I don't want to use just a harness. I will try the method you describe with the GriGri. I also find that feeding the line through the carabiner makes for a much better ride down. Much smoother and easier to control. It ads a bit more friction and makes the feed over the GriGri better. That in combination with your suggestion might work well. Thank you. I will update the post after I try it.
+Allen edwards This isn't a "suggestion". It's a very well established practice. Here's how you rappel with a GriGri (which is what you are doing):
1. Reach top of route (mast in this case)
2. Anchor your harness into two secure points on top of mast. Lots of ways to do this, I use a Metolius Personal Anchor, or two quickdraws.
3. Test weight on those anchors by taking weight off of whatever device you were using before (in this case your ascender). Make sure that your anchor is supporting you.
4. Remove the device you were using before (in this case your ascender)
5. Put your GriGri on the line and clip it onto your harness. Make sure there is some sort of autoblock (e.g. prusik) ON THE SAME ROPE AND ABOVE YOUR GriGri. Hold your left hand on the prusik, right hand on the break strand.
6. Remove your anchor.
7. While keeping your right hand on the break strand use your index to push the GriGri upper half down to lower yourself, hold onto the prusik with your left hand so it keeps going down. If your GriGri fails just let go with your left hand and the prusik will lock up.
Please don't invent your own methods, they are unnecessarily complicated and not very safe.
if you dont like the grigri you should give the edelrid eddy belay device a go, you belay much smother than with a grigri and it has a super panic function. this locks the device when the lever is pulled to hard! also instead of using a prussik i would use a petzl asap. this will stop any fall and you dont have to re adjust it all the time, it does it by itself
prusik as backup device on the second rope? are you nuts man?
If you look when he reaches the top of the mast, the rope is tied to the sail rigging in such a way that you could climb either half of the rope, it’s not a looped system so the prusik on the other rope is fine.
you should have a daisy chain to hook up once u reach the top while ur doing ur switch over to repel down
Allen tie a knot right above the Grigri it will prevent the "set back" that you encounter when your standing on the foot loops
The prusik is a safety line and should share nothing with the main climbing line. different line, different harness, different halyard.
More reciently I found that when at the top of the mast and standing up on the foot loops, the gri-gri goes slack and when you first sit back down you get the unpleasant surprise that nothing is holding it to the line until you fall a bit. I have stopped using this and am back to my initial "Unassisted Mast Climbing" method. Read it on my web site or search for it on TH-cam.
I have a new video on GriGri based mast climbing that solves some of the problems in this method. Please see L-36.com and the article on More Unassisted Mast Climbing.
I like how you say you don't trust the Bosuns Chair, but after review of your video, maybe you shouldn't trust yourself.
You didn't even connect the chair to the rig properly. The carabiner is only connected to the small piece of red flat webbing, instead of being connected to the main load bearing connection point on the chair. Next time run the carabiner through the small red AND the big yellow loop. Until you learn to check and double check, you are one of the small exceptions of people who SHOULD have the need to wear a 2nd harness. Complacently Kills. Hopefully you have the chance to read this, and are not already dead.
I've never used a prusik on a cable since I'm a climber, but I'm concerned that your cable is free to move. Make sure the other end of the cable is tied down so that it cannot move. Otherwise, the prusik will just take the cable with you as you fall. Also, why two harnesses?
My comments may look a little odd. That is because someone keeps making comments, waiting for me to reply, then deleting their comment. But please, don't pick at this method. It is not recommended and the other method I propose is just better so use it.
Hello. About 2/3rds of the way up I saw a rope on a pulley. What is that rope and pulley used for?
I would suggest you go to L-36.com and read the article on this system. The pulley is part of the RAD system this is based on.
I don't recommend this technique. This video is part of an article on L-36.com. I show it as it is interesting but I don't recommend it. I said that in the initial post 2 years ago. Please see L-36.com for what I do recommend. As far as putting the prusik above and on the same line, that violates one of the principles I had in designing this system. The recommended technique has none of these problems and is 100% redundant, allows one to go up or down without re-rigging anything. It does not use a gri-gri.
***** I guess I don't understand. The prussic isn't an issue. I am just using it as backup and got the line from REI already made up as a prussic. I have no idea what size it is, sorry.
its a petzl one and can take minimum 8.9 mm so a rope of 8mm would be dangerous
the techniq itself is safe
Allen Edwards I don't know anything about sailing. Although I always want to try it. The feeling of freedom most be awesome!
But I am a rockclimber. And we use a grigri for belaying the other climber. The grigri almost never fail. But you don't want to take the risk. Because you don't want to die or so. So what I've learned you should never let go of the rope. But it's a beautiful instrument. Didn't know they use it for sailing to.
Eyeyey Sailors on mountaineering ^^....hehe
Ok, the second harness is simply stupid, ..but the method itself seems to be ok IF the Prusik-line is independent. But talk about the prusik, while rappeling (abseilen) you should hold the prusik itself also in your closed hand together with the rope which is going itno the grigri, (and by the way turn it around thumb up) so it flows fluently in your hand, and locks up if something goes wrong, but you will be abel to go down in a fluent way. And you don´t have to readjust it all the time.
Kenn ich aus dem Alpinen Bergsteigen. Muste ich leider des öfteren benutzen...nach einem Sturz im Vorstieg... :-)
+josh king. For the last time. Don't use this method. That said, this method is clearly safer than what you are suggesting because it is 100% redundant because it uses two ropes and what you are suggesting uses only one rope. That gives your suggestion a single point of failure. One of my criteria was no single point of failure can cause a fall. But the other method is better for climbing a mast.
I have 800 subscribers as of this date and Google says I need 1000. Please subscribe and get me over that number. Thanks!
I think you have weak abdominal muscles because you don't climb often. To stop the tendency of wanting to go over backward in your harness without using your stomach muscles, just make a simple figure eight chest harness and connect the chest loops with a carabiner which you can then hook up to the climbing line or harness waist carabiner. You can then lean back without worrying about falling backward. It makes it a lot less tiring although you will probably have to unhook the chest harness to get on top of the mast.
Look for a new video soon showing a new method that has none of the issues that the GriGri has. I expect to have it finished in about 2 weeks. With this new method, I no longer use the GriGri method and I never did recommend it. It was fun but the new method is much better for the task at hand. My stomach muscles are indeed stronger than they were when I made this video so that may play a role. That said, the issues I had when I did this video were not at all about going over backward. I never worried about that. Thanks for the help though. I really appreciate the comments.
I found waldo!
Patrick Smith I thought the exact same 😂
Instead of Prusik knot I prefer VT knot or Blake's knot or Distel knot, for example...
I don't use a Prusik any more either. I use a klemheist knot. But either one will work.
I don't recommend this. It takes practice and training and for occasional use, I like other ways. The first time you try using a GriGri it will probably scare you to death. See
L-36.com for a review of 6 methods.
You should NEVER need a second harness that's ridiculous, the prussik can be on the same line as long as it's below the gri gri, there is no need for a second rope
Keep that Grigri brake line in your hand!
I don't recommend the GriGri for climbing. Too scary. Check out this video th-cam.com/video/89w4pLANLvo/w-d-xo.html
Josh keeps deleting his comments which makes my replies show up below his reposting. Strainge. Anyway, see Unassisted Mast Climbing. It is probably listed on the right or see L-36.com for details.
I do not recommend this method. See L-36.com for what I do recommend. But I do recommend using two halyards with the prussik on the second halyard. If you trust your life to a char, sure skip the harness. Or if you want to be suspended from a harness, skip the chair. Personally I do not trust the chair with my life and I do not want to be suspended from the harness, which I would be much more likely to trust. I also would not trust my life to a single halyard. But it is your life so make your own choices.
Allen Edwards Hi Allen. I'm not trying to be arsey, but if you are not a qualified climber, then you should not be 're commending anything mate.
I think prusik is not required here at all
It is just for backup. I think having a backup is a good idea.
@@L-36 grigri is enough morover you have monkey above
@@CookieMonsteeerrr My goal was to have the system be 100% redundant and that includes the halyard failing. You could connect the chair or harness to the ascender and then only have the halyard to worry about but that is not a choice I would make. But completely up to you.
@@L-36 o See i Just wanted to Say for me its too much
@@CookieMonsteeerrr No problem. We all have to evaluate how much risk we are willing to take. I used to have crew haul me up on a single halyard. I would never do that now but lots of people do.
Bottom line is it works
But the gri gri is a belay divice
Its approved as a descent device also... Check with Petzl