Bad Apple - An Atari Demo (2017)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- A new rendition of the well-known music video, now with proper timing, stereo music and a framerate of 12.5 fps. Runs on stock Atari 64KB machines (Atari 800 series), using a 1MB Maxflash/Ultimate cart. I was just a technical advisor in this one, mostly with regard to music.
Code, graphics, music: R0ger
Link to pouët.net production page: www.pouet.net/p...
Thank you for the 1M views!
This would have annihilated peoples' minds in 1989.
Everyone would have a stroke simultaneously.
and it would annihilate people's minds right now if it were played on an real atari, on the way atari graphics work this is literally impossible, the Atari didn't have enough resources to pull out something like this
@@splatsmash5003 check the pinned comment
Dude in the 80s playing Hard Drivin': This game is so sick dude! Excellent graphics!
*Someone puts this on*
80s dude: ...Woah...Gnarly dude!
@@splatsmash5003 are you stupid? It literally is on the atari
The three important things you must know about any device:
- Can it run DOOM?
- Can it play Bad Apple?
- Has Skyrim been ported to it yet?
true
What about the more recently suggested tests:
- Can it run crysis
- Can it run cyberpunk 2077?
@@enderjed2523 The answer is a hard "No" to the second one, mainly because no console can run the damn thing regardless
@@PicketPolecat Yet.
@@enderjed2523 ok crysis is ok, but cyberpunk? Take that garbage to its trash can again please
The lyrics on the bottom make me feel like I’m in a karaoke bar
Same xd
Same even though I’m too young to go to a bar!
except the visuals aren't a dancing barbie character
Lmfao same
Yeah..
When you watch it in 144p you cant see the lines anymore!
holy shit you're right! can we get a tech wizard explain this one?
now it just looks grey lmao
@@perpetualsystems 144p is a resolution lower than the actual resolution, so the lines are blurred out.
Woooahh that's so cool
nice tip
It is really incredible what these computers are able to do, they are pushed to the limits and they are very capable computers.
I wonder what they will be capable to do in the future
Don't forget it sais stereo pokey - so its an emulated modded Atari with two POKEY sound chips and therefore eight voices. They should make a 4-voice mono version which plays on a stock atari.
@@stephanelsner9391 description
I thought Atari was a console- and its a computer..
Yeah it's incredible, playing black and white pictures! Newer seen before
One of the few videos that looks even better in 144p
oh shit, you’re right
nah...144p is l little to much...i think a quality like 360p or 240p would be more better
@@shimaafrazmanesh130 144p is the only resolution where the lines disappear
@@shimaafrazmanesh130 Here we see someone who doesn’t even know what the conversation is about try to fit in
@@SrIgort but i like the lines... :(
Now we need Bad Apple to run on the first ever computer.
Jesus fucking christ, you'd have to partake in deforestation just to mke the punch cards needed.
what is the first computer then? I'd argue the Bomba machine from 1943, but there are older ones.
The oldest this would run on is probably the IBM System 350, which used EBCDIC...
it's hard but not undoable...
or the Commodore PET, which used PETSCII Graphics...
possible, easier than the System 350, but still harder than this...
basically: you can try with every computer with a screen.
@Universal Space Expeditioner 150? What year do you think it is?
@@JohnSmith-fq3rg 2170
That would be technically impossible for various reasons, such as the fact that you would need approximately 65306.122449 puched cards, since an average 4 minute song is about 10 MB in size, and a punched card holds about 122.5 bytes. And thats only for the audio, if you wanted to do this with the video, you would need approximately 979591.836735 more punched cards. And another factor is that RAM size at that time wouldn't be enough, since it can't handle more than 20 characters.
Somehow Atari made the song more epic LOL
better than 2600 one
@@Sarwex117 Taigei pro5 picture? Cultured man.
Edit: bruh I realized that I was mistakening her name with Taihou jeez
The first 20 seconds or so, I thought it was garbage, but as it went on, it started to sound pretty nice.
Atari,
It sounds a bit like thrash 8 bit music
It took me a LONG time to figure out how this would fit in just 1MB, but I think I figured it out:
Each frame is composed of a single "line" which loops around the screen in the same pattern that the beam on a CRT would scan in. This line is broken up into segments, with every other segment alternating between black and white. each segment will be defined by it's length, either in pixels, or scan time, depending on how the image is rendered (color does not need to be defined, since a new segment is only created in a transition between black and white). At the beginning of each frame, there would be a header: defining the color of the first segment, and the total number of segments.
That's just my guess, if anyone who helped make this knows how it was actually done, I'd like to know.
Author of the demo here. You are thinking in the right direction. Except few details though.
With Atari version, compression factor was not the only thing to consider. It also has to decompress fast enough. I had to find good compromise between speed and memory size. I also could pick resolution and framerate, to get the best of what I can do.
First the data are processed by bytes, not pixels. That would be too slow. In this Atari screen mode, byte means 8 pixels side by side.
Then the data are arranged into stream by columns, not lines, as in your idea. Top to bottom, left to right. One frame is 256x96 pixels, thus 32 columns each of 96 bytes.
That's because bytes above and bellow are more likely to be same. I don't have to worry about how CRT draws screen, Atari 800 has full VRAM, this runs at 12.5 FPS so I have several PAL frames of time to render one animation frame. This also means I can (and have to) use double buffering.
Another reason to use columns is the 6502 instruction set. Won't go into details here, but it allows me to use unrolled loop which can by used for any column by changing the X register.
To achieve the compression itself, it uses 2 phases .. first the consecutive bytes are XORed together .. so when there is filled area, or vertical lines, the result will be zero. The purpose of this phase is to make the data as sparse as possible, to get as many repeated zeros as possible.
Second phase is then variant of RLE algorithm. It counts length of repeated bytes (typically zeros) .. these sequences are separated by non repeating bytes, typically non zeros. I than code lengths of these sequences, and the non repeating data itself.
There are also some extra data at the beginning of every frame, like first and last column I have to process, and also color of the first byte.
Some more info can be found here at AtariAge forums: atariage.com/forums/topic/266269-bad-apple-by-r0ger/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-3777736
@@DrSid42 Thanks for the info! I always find the way that technical limitations influence the development of demos/games/programs to be fascinating.
your hard work is nice!
Thank you for the info. :)
there is also the black borders saving up space
I dont know why, but whenever i see stuff like this, I always like to imagine what would happen if you went back in time to when the Atari first came out, plugged this cart into one of them, and seeing what people's reactions to it would be.
The Atari would sell a lot more
You really want to know the reaction so bad? Just kill all of humanity (including me), destroy the internet, and leave their children with just basic technology and stuff from the 90' then show them this.
Well, you'd have to find a way to hide the billions of corpses first. Good luck!
They'd be like, whoa! You have a time machine!!
Can you imagine how kids in the 80s would react to this?
They’d think you’re some kind of tech god
then you will create time paradox that makes everyone 10x smarter
"What the fuck is a Touhou?!"
@@medmedmedmed_. Humanity will remain dumb
@@chris_1988 They’ll find out in 8 years
It is amazing how a sound Pokey chip released on the market in 1979 is so much better than the newer chip shoved into the Atari ST in 1985. One of the most amazing original musical scores from back in the day is the introduction to Necromancer on the Atari computers as well. This score really demonstrated how capable the Pokey actually was.
The nes cant do this
@@tobyisawesome The NES most definitely can. th-cam.com/video/qRdGhHEoj3o/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Oyashiro
@@katkosmos I retract my statement.
@@katkosmos The NES can't. This is a stereo dual-chip setup.
I have no idea how computers work
It still baffles me that people are still making new versions of this to this day
Bad Apple is a finely aged wine on TH-cam 👍🏼
Bad Apple!! is the video version of “but can it run doom?” And is a nice demonstration of the programmer’s capabilities.
Indeed, since this particular Bad Apple remix goes back to 2007
It’s a testament to how brilliant the original video was. The black-and-white style makes detecting imperfections in the 3D models infinitely more difficult, while also allowing for those slick segues that are just not possible in color. Add in ZUN’s distinctive character design which allows each character to be instantly recognizable from mere silhouette and an amazing song, and you have a recipe for a timeless classic.
I’m amazed that Atari is able to be altered like this.
I don't think the atari was altered, it think it's just running a cartridge with Bad Apple on it.
@@MicroOneo The cartridge is kinda huge. Unrealistically for the old days. But it's not exactly new either. Another guy JAC now made 50 fps full resolution version. But he also made new cartridge hardware for that :-) I'm more software guy, so I just aimed at 1MB, which lot of people have, and which has good support in emulators.
@@DrSid42 To be honest this would be absolutely mind-blowing if shown to people back in the 80s. With this rendering style you could proably make a very unique game.
If and or when time travel is discovered in going back in time to place this cart on the floor of an electronics store to see what happens
Then undo my actions right away as to not disturb the space time continum
This is NOT an Atari 2600 like everyone is assuming. It's the Atari 800 home computer, with a faster CPU and much better sound chip than the 2600.
Can we take a moment to appreciate that he put in SCROLLING LYRICS AND CREDITS to this rom?! This is definitely the most impressive port of bad apple I’ve seen yet!
This and the apple one are amazing imo
Me: no Commodore was better!
My friend: this video
*edit: sorry spelling errors.
Powerex YT i have the dream too use Yamaha chip of spectrum, pokey and Sid, and do a version of bad apple exploiting the best of the 3
Commodore is still more impressive than this because Commodore used only 170KB of space, which was have actually been very feasible to run on original hardware even for the time that the Commodore was sold on the market. Not to say that this is not impressive, and visually it is better, just to say that Commodore's version is a bigger technical achievement.
@@RegalPixelKing I think this is the best 8bit demo of Bad Apple. It is on a stock Atari 8bit using cassette. th-cam.com/video/WhAn9pCdQek/w-d-xo.html
I think this one is better. th-cam.com/video/WhAn9pCdQek/w-d-xo.html
But commodore can run shovel knight (watch a video called "shovel knight 64?" by yacht club games it's a satire video of a fake commodore 64 version that was made to confuse people by making them think its a N64 game)
Wow this is flawless execution, and sure the luxury of more RAM than some other 8-bit versions is an advantage but the craft here deserves high praise. I am in awe of the music, you nailed the timbre / harmonics, this right here is why I also love the Pokey, for certain things even the (also beloved) SID can't really compete.
It only needs 64KB to run like this.
@@jrherita No, the ROM file is 1 MB.
@@frankbuss jrherita was responding to OPs comment " and sure the luxury of more RAM than some other 8-bit versions is an advantage but the craft here deserves high praise." So he was correct, " It only needs 64KB to run like this"... jrherita didnt talk about ROM size
"144p is the most terrible resolution to watch video on youtube"
This video: hold my line resolution
Kracc bacc: ez ez
Me, who has no idea on what tohou is; hehe cute ladies
Tohou basically is the hardest bullet hell with the cutest girls since women were first deployed on the battlefield.
Me, as a fan: haha cute ladies
@@Rqzou rule 34 in a nutshell
There's like only one guy in Touhou Project lol
There's more, but only one is significant to the plot.
@@Kromiball Rinnosuke moment
This feels like a gift to the old consoles, showing them just how much we have progressed in coding!
I love stuff like this because it not only shows how technological know how has progressed but also shows just how capable the old consoles were
Any system can do brilliant things if someone knows how to use it.
Some systems were simply easier to program than others (easy examples being the Wii, Windows 64bit, and PS2) (difficult examples being the PS3, Atari Jaguar, and Sega Saturn)
0:19 **let just make this nameless anine witch bite an apple for making it look more than an asshole**
wow that is more than a converted video - it's a complete remake a.k.a. 8 Bit Cover Version! Pretty impressing!
"If there is a screen, there is bad apple, if there is not a screen, make one"
-Sanoko Co
I'm not a fan of Touhou, but I can still appreciate all the time and effort this must've taken to make it work right. Props to R0ger AKA DrSid42 and PG!
Amazin Demo. I really like the coloured picture at the end. I would love to convert it to the commdore plus/4.
Hi, thanks for your appreciation, I told R0ger :-)
Regarding your wish - I am afraid it won't be as straightforward as it may seem since the image is in hi-res and we use HW sprites to colorize it. While you can use color-RAM on plus/4, it won't be much useful for the conversion.
Glad you like it !
Can't really help you except giving you the image, thought it's easy to snap from emulator: ibb.co/PxSBcV2
Wonderfull picture! Thank you for the image and the offered help! The picture is indeed not a straight forward port, because the native Multicolor Mode on the plus/4 has only 320x200 (odd 2x1 pixels) resolution (effective 160x200). So i have to repixel some parts by hand. But thats what i really love doing..:)
@@GeorgesChannel Let us see what you come up with then! :-)
144p
Scanlines: off
240p
Scanlines:on
I personally rank Bad Apple variants by if they did the smile at 1:00, and I gotta say, yours is the best one so far.
Thanks ! That is some connoisseur stuff !
I mainly use the star sequence at 0:22 .. typically the stars are too dark, especially with the motion blur, and if you use single threshold to convert the whole video to B&W, the stars won't be visible. You have to push the threshold down a bit for that one part. But you can't leave it low for the whole time, as motion blurred parts will look too thick.
Also the katana right after 1:00 usually won't threshold perfectly, no matter what value you use .. there will be frames with one pixel sticking out of the edge. I just had to manually fix that (and few other places).
Dat explosion sound.
PFFFSSHRHHSSS
The fact that this video has the best subtitles for this song I've ever seen is amazing
2020: But can it run DOOM???
2021: *BUT CAN IT RUN BAD APPLE????*
@ǝuǝןǝS don't make me whoosh you
@ǝuǝןǝS yeah and?
@@nuttobobbu whoosh so funny!!!! omg reddit moment chunges wholesome keanu 100!
@@virtuallylightblue and?
i don't know what this is or why it was recommended to me but heck yea i'm glad it was!
Algorithm tells you're hardcore 8-bit nerd...
tou hou never really meant anything to me but this is incredible
Honestly, I always hear people say Bad Apple is over rated but honestly it’s one of the greatest songs and music videos of all time. If it wasn’t, I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t have recreations like this.
just after 1 "bad apple made by minecraft sheep" youtube decided to raid me with bunch of these kind of videos
Same lol
I mean im not complaining..
This goes to show that the hardware was never a limitation but the fact that not many people were into this kind of things at the time.
Thank you for showing us this! Really awesome both technically and musically!
o no- my entire recommendations is filled with bad apple now 😳
It's crazy how smooth it looks for 12.5 fps
I'll be honest at first it just sounded way too harsh but after a bit more time it grew on me like right away, really cool video and concept!
This is very well made! And would probably really help anyone trying to figure out how to sing the song since the yellow bar goes over each individual syllable in time with the song
the fact that this is on Atari is impressive
The key change in the music compared to the original sounds really cool and more Touhou-like. Very nice.
古い感じが良いッ！！！
scanline mode: ON
me: *immediately sets video to 144p to remove the scanlines*
If I ever need to explain bad apple to my dad, this is what I’m using 🙂
What a beautiful masterpiece worth of art is it
Fantastic demo! I'd love to hear the team share how they pulled it off. In a perfect world, I'd bring back the Atari 8-bit as part of a "Classic Videogame Netflix" system and pay all the indie and demoscene coders a ton of money for their hard work. Great stuff.
Thanks ! You can read some more details here: atariage.com/forums/topic/266269-bad-apple-by-r0ger
And as for paying, I'm sure we can find a way :-D
This shit slaps.
1st I see it done on a actual apple
2nd I see it done on minecraft sheep
3rd I see it done in a bullet hell game
4th I see it done on a T1-84 Caclulator
5th, now I see it as a Atari Demo
absolutely beautiful
Rule 86
Another rule of the internet.
If it exists, you can play Bad Apple on it.
ラスボス感あっていいなぁ〜
7 years and still demo ? It looks like a complete version to me, it sounds amazing. Somebody make a Touhou fangame for atari.
Oh sweet innocent child. You gonna have a blast: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene
Just imagine sending this into space so something in a far away galaxy find this some day.
WTF THEY MADE THE ANIMATION, MUSIC AND LYRICS WTFFF THAT'S IMPRESSIVE
2:43 did I just hear... MUDA
The atari bass is one of my favorite sounds of the world. This whole thing sounds excellent.
…I think this may be my favorite version yet.
lowkey my favorite rendition of bad apple
Inside of that Atari:🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Well then uhh
*adds this cover to my playlist*
Anyways
I sang along.
CUZ WHY NOT-
yes
* looks up game footage of the 800 *
yeah this is impressive
The lower the resolution, the darker it gets.
144p just completely blurs our the lines.
Actually looks better in 144p how interesting.
I just have been blown away. So amazing what you guys do with those lovely old machines :)
This makes me want to throw an apple up in the air and see what happens
Imagine being in like 1970s and opening up an atari machine and seeing this playing. I would literally go mad.
This might be the best redition of Bad Apple Ive ever seen
The music....
THE MUSIC
ITS SO DAMN GOOD
Indeed. The harsher sound bits and the gamey feel is perfect. I actually like it more than the original.
@Fumo Fumo I know
Touhou my friend ;)
This makes my brain happy when i put it on headphones
До мурашек несколько раз пробивало, завораживает. Почему то именно эта версия больше всего вызвала у меня восхищение.
POV: You're looking through the comments and aren't subscribed to this guy's channel.
You should be subscribed.
Last vid was made 2 years ago
Might not be my favorite iteration of Bad Apple but this right here is certainly the one that amazes me the most. The fact that it can be stored in one single MB of data and played on a really ancient piece of technology with even subtitles included is just fascinating.
2:43
Jojo fans: Oh, approaching me?
Oh, you're approaching me?*
can i listen to 1 second of this without getting goosebumps
Impressive
To be honest, I would make a comment about all of the characters in order.
But this is too good. Props to the people who worked on this :)
Did it for you
The true power of the Atari 800 ^
Man that atari sound is so distinct this is perfection
watch in 144p for best experience.
0:39 I hear megolvania
144pで見ると横線が消える…！
All these kids whimpering about the lines and watching it in 144 and have probably never seen an ATARI game in their life.
Excellent adapt, by the the way.
サムネの霊夢がエジプト女王みたい
Atari: can hold up to 16KB
people in 2017: bad apple go brrrrr
64K actually
@@yuliindrayani7623 really? I thought it was 16
Can GTA 6, Cyberpunk, Call of duty warzone, Skyrim and clash of clans play in?
when you listen so much that you can still hear the singing
Can touhou fans stop being impressive
FOR 5 MINUTES?
Why is this so underrated, this is really so good good job
♾/10
I didn't know 720p50 was even an actual quality option.
720p is the resolution, while 50 is the FPS.
(oh and 720 is the height of the resolution, it actually renders at 1280p of width and 720p of height)
Funny, 144p quality is _just_ low enough that it blurs together the image, meaning while looking darker, it doesn't have any in-between black lines.
1:04 don’t think I didn’t spot that muda
Explain
見える!... 色付き補完されて...
So much nostalgia! And a reminder of how much more there was that could be done with that technology by the time I had to abandon it (because the belts on all our disk drives wore out, and you just could not get them anymore anywhere)
For you guys who don't know the characters here's a list in order:
Hakurei Reimu
Kirisame Marisa
Patchouli Knowledge
Remilia Scarlet
Izayoi Sakuya
Flandre Scarlet
Youmu Konpaku
Saigyouji Yuyuko
Onozuka Komachi
??? (sorry for not knowing)
Fujiwara no Mokou
???
???
????? Eirin (don't know first name)
Princess Kaguya
Poltergeist Twins (I think they have a name)
???
???
???
Reisen Udongein Inaba
???
Sanae Kochiya(?)
???
???
???
???
???
???
???
Alice Margratoid
???
???
???
???
???
???
Kirisame Marisa (again)
Hakurei Reimu (again)
I'm so sorry for not knowing all the characters but if it helps you I'm ok!
after Komachi is Shikieiki (yes that is her full name)
@@virtuallylightblue oh kk
Really nailed the music, good job
Thanks !
My favourite Atari game: Touhou