I cannot thank you enough for making these videos. You have no idea how much fear you removed attacking the dash on a 66 tbird i just bought. its in cherry shape but the only thing that seems to not be working is the dash vacuum system / vacuum door locks. but now that i watched your video. its WAY WAY more simple than I realized. I now walk into this dashboard with zero fear. Thank you Sir!
Thanks so much for this. I am old and was an a/c and electrical specialist for a few years in the 70s and 80s. The sensing bulb or coil on expansion valve will give you lower a/c vent temp if it is metal cuff clipped or 2 worm clamped tonthe suction line and then insulated very well. The expansion will throttle down refrig flow and your evap pressure will be lower. This encourages the evaporation phase of system. When the sensing tube is hotter, exp valve opens more and floods evap and evaporation is reduced. You'll serious sweating of low side line and even lower sensed temp of that low side line back to compressor because that refrigerant did do it's job in the evaporator. Those cuff clamps rust and fall apart.
Hey Jimmy, thank you very much for the expansion valve explanation. I admit that I dont know that much about how an expansion valve works other than it sprays freon into the evaporator. I should study it more. Thanks again.
I just wanted to thank you for making a great detailed video of how this complicated system works. So many thunderbird owners cant seem to figure it out on thier own and give up out of frustration. The other thing i can't find anywhere is the instructions on how the trunk matts are assembled. Even when you buy new replacements, there's no installation instructions. Love the video. Keep em comin!!
Thank you very much for the compliments. The system is very intimidating when you don't know it. I am surprised at just how simple it is and how easy it is to rebuild it since it is only a few vacuum motors and some hoses, but its easy for me to say that since I've fixed hundreds. If someone decided to rebuild the plenum and recondition the evaporator, then the dash must come out and then the job becomes a monster. The daunting thing for me is the amount of work it is to remove the dash and all related parts to get to it. However, like I mentioned in the video, the dash does not have to be removed to repair the vacuum system itself but all dash and center console access panels must be removed including the radio, heater control, and clock tower (the panel where the clock is). The trunk mat kits are (in my opinion) okay at best. The material is not original (vinyl instead of burtex like original) and they are never cut correctly so some level of fitting and trimming is required. The boards are the hardest part because they are also not cut properly, difficult to work with, and require quite a bit of fitting and trimming. I'm a perfectionist and I spend too much time trying to get them to fit perfectly which is impossible so I usually spend too much time beating a dead horse. I've never seen a kit that had an instruction manual on how to install. Just try to identify each piece and where it goes. Then start with the boards first, get them fitted, trimmed and installed. Then install the mats. However, when fitting and trimming the boards, have the mats handy and place them when fitting the boards so you know how they are going to fit together. Never glue anything in place until you are 100% sure it is fitted and trimmed properly and fits together with its neighboring piece. Thank you, Nick
OMG!! I now know why the heat doesn’t get hot! Both defrost and cabin heat! Dang, looks like a heck of a lot of work! And, by the way, the air conditioning is missing the compressor, clutch, pulley and belt. I think even if that were all there, the vacuum system wouldn’t allow cold air! Geez Louise. A lot more work than I thought! Nick, thanks for the great video…even though I am now depressed lol!
I have a 1966 Ford Thunderbird that has been the project of a few previous owners, none of which did the vacuum lines right. Some are missing, some are plugged, but this video really helps with a lot of them, it makes it feel less overwhelming and confusing. Thanks for posting this.
Its unfortunate that most of the Thunderbirds I've seen look like they have been through the gauntlet of disrepair. There are so many people that try to redesign these cars and fail miserably, plus the ones that end up abandoned and forgotten. Because these cars seem so complicated and difficult to fix, they just got neglected. They are not like Mustangs that are so basic and simple to fix. That's one of the things that make the Mustang so darn popular. However, it has always surprised me at just how relatively simple most things were on the Thunderbird, it was just getting past the fear of the unknown. And with TH-cam and an iPhone today, its so much easier to find the info you need to help you along.
I have a 65 Landau and we are going to start the AC system rebuild/ Vacuum line repairs Saturday and I will definitely be using this video as I do it!!! thank you
WOW Thank you for the detailed video. I had my entire AC/Heater box refurbished and will be reinstalling it and the dash in the next week or so. Although I took pictures as I disassembled, this video make it so much clearer.
Thank you Nick! I got the t-bird running! Now I have a bunch of leaks, lol. One is the heater core - so this video is perfect for my 66. The other is a pretty good size oil leak in the back. One step at a time. -Robert
Dear Nick, just in time as I was hoping to reinstall my repaired dash for my '65... I have the door locks and more hoses than an ICU ward. That "gold" thing that is WAY in the back by the incoming air down boot, I can just by pass? I have to use long pliers to get a hose in it as I can not reach back there. So cool... or at least I hope it will be when all hooked back up.. That gold thing sure looks like a vacuum actuator to me... so hard to see back there. Well if I have trouble ill let you know. you have always been a help. God bless.
Hey Michael, thank you very much. I think your talking about the thermostatic control valve. Yes, you can bypass it and just take the brown vacuum hose to the heater valve. good luck
thanks as always,i watched this to try to figure out why when going down the road i get air coming out of my ac vents just while driving on my 66.Im stumped.
Hey Robert, this is an easy one, your right vent boot is compromised. The right vent boot is rubber and it is the connection between the cowl and heater box. When it disintegrates there is nothing to stop air from blowing in on the passenger side. Also, if the right vent door is open, air will also blow in. Also, if the vacuum system is not working, the recirculating air door that blocks off the heater core will also not close. So, if the right vent is open and the recirculating air door is open, air will blow into the entire heater/AC unit under the dash and you will get air blowing out of all the vents. Every 1964-66 Thunderbird has a bad right vent boot. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks Nick when you say right vent boot you mean the fresh air inlet correct?iv changed the hose that connects that fresh air inlet to the flapper that closes.im starting to think its something with the heater door. Again thanks
Thank you for producing these amazing Tbird technical videos. More people need to know about them. Would love to see one on the convertible top operation as I have a 66 QCODE convertible. Regards, Gordon.
Thanks Nick for the video. Those heater vacuum motors are a pain to get to. Especially the one on the right. Mine doesn’t work and I’m getting a lot of hot air mixed with my AC. I wish when the motors fail they fail with the door closed and not open. Oh well trying to change that heater vacuum motor is going to be a tough job.
That does make sense. Thank you. Do you happen to have any convertible top frame arms for 61 to 66 convertibles laying around in your shop. They are like hens teeth to find. Mine both broke on my 63M code probably due to the top not being down in a very long while most likely. Though the owner i just bought it from said he had it down in April. So sad, I am looking for a welder here which I may have found and see how well they might be able to be welded. I have called around to all the Thunderbird Parts places and Pat Wilson has a driver side but no passenger side. Thanks for any help you can give. I thought with all the Thunderbird you’ve done maybe you have a set of these laying around somewhere. LOL thanks for all your great work, I look forward to your videos very much. Jim
Hey Jim, sorry but I do not have any top arms for 61-63. I do have 64-66. Yes you can have them welded and make sure you find a GOOD welder, someone who is very experienced with welding cast aluminum. I have had those done many times when I was in Los Angeles. Thats the way to go. Good luck, Nick
Vintage Thunderbird Repair thanks Nick, I’m going to see the welder tonight and he can tell me whether he can do them. He is an experienced welder but he’s never done these before. So we’ll see.
thanks so much Nick. Can you tell me the difference between the 63 and the 64 through 66 top frame arms. I thought they were all the same. I just left my welder friend and he thinks he can weld my top frame arms. but we will see how well they come out. Thanks.
Thank you for a fantastic description on what going on with the vacuum lines. I replaced all my vacuum lines with a different manufacture vacuum line and been having nothing but problems. Using the mighty vac I'm finding leaks at the connection points on the 7/64 lines. I want to verify that this is the proper size that is used to go to all the vacuum actuators? The vacuum system diagram I have actually shows on the 1st page 7/64 on page two it indicates 5/64. I am suspecting inferior quality vacuum lines The hose seam to leak no matter what fitting you put it on, even at the connection to the mighty vac. I am in process of order the Gates vacuum line you suggested in your video.... I am so glad a didn't install the dash yet. Thanks Jeff
All the vacuum lines going from the round colored pie shaped control disc on the dash (heater-A/C control) to the vacuum motors or actuators is the 7/64" hose. There is only one place where the 7/32" size hose is used for the A/C and heater, from the thermostatic control valve to the round colored pie shaped control disc on the dash. All other hoses (for the A/C and heater) under the dash are the 7/64" hose. The vacuum door locks are a completely different system and use both the 5/32" hose and the 7/32" hose. The source hose for the A/C and heater coming into the car from the engine compartment is also a 7/64" hose. The heater valve hose going from the thermostatic control valve to the heater valve is the 5/32" hose. I only use Gates hoses and belts on everything. I never use Goodyear. I also never buy Goodyear tires. Same thing with Standard products. Junk!!!!! Also, Fram. Compare the folds in a Fram air filter to any other brand. You can then imagine what their oil filters must look like! Junk!!!! I've learned my lesson the hard way over time with these products.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Looks like my problem is, I used the wrong size hose. Two follow questions - The 5/64 is that inside diameter? Do you happen to have a PN for a 50' roll. Your help is appreciated.....Thank You
Yes, the size means the inside diameter. The part numbers for the 50' rolls of hoses are shown in the video but I will list them here too. Gates 27041 = 7/64". Gates 27042 = 5/32". Gates 27043 = 7/32".
Jeff, I was wrong, I made a mistake stating the correct size of the hose used inside the car to the pie controller. The correct size for the pie controller to all the vacuum motors is 7/64". Im very sorry to make that mistake. 27041 gates hose is 7/64" not 5/64". Also the source hose for the ac heater from the engine compartment to under the dash is also 7/64". I corrected/edited my comment to you with the correct size hose. Thanks, Nick
If your car has air, its the same as the 66 in my video. I don't exactly show removing the heater core but I do explain how to take out the heater box. From there its a no brainer. Sorry that my answer is late, I didn't see your post.
Brilliant video...Re bypassing the thermostatic control switch (old and not repairable etc.), I assume just means the A/C is constantly "ON" when selected "ON"? No temperature sensing & control any more?
No, the thermostatic control switch Im talking about controls the heater valve. It is located in the fan compartment. It shuts off the heater valve when things get too hot. Because they are not available, you simply bypass it and go straight to the heater valve with the brown hose. Its a little bit more complicated than that, I made is sound so easy.
Thank you for an awesome and informative video. I have the interior out of my '65, and I'm debating whether to reactivate the vacuum operated HVAC system, which was disconnected because of leaks in the system, I presume. My car has AC, but doesn't have the vacuum powered door locks. (RIght now, the only HVAC function I have is heat through the defroster, which is minimally acceptable, as if I'm ever caught in an ice storm, that's the function I'll need the most. Heater core seems good. I've replaced the vacuum operated heater control valve with a manually controlled unit that can be shut off or turned on seasonally.) I don't mind the work in accessing and replacing the vacuum lines, but I'm worried that the some/most of the vacuum powered vent panel motors/canisters might be leaking and in need of replacement. It sounds/looks like the recirculating air, defroster, main air conditioning vent, compressor clutch switch are available as new replacement units. WHERE CAN I BUY THOSE? I looked at Pat Wilson's and the bird's nest for a cursory check and didn't see anything. Also, is the rear interior vent canister (behind the rear seat) available new? How likely is it that all/most of these units will not be working on my car (I assume they're all original.) How do I check them? Will it be likely that my CONTROL UNIT will also be leaking? And can it be rebuilt if it is? I want to do all of this without taking out my dash. If I need a new evaporator for the AC, can that be installed without taking out the dash? I DO have the shop manual, but I want to check with someone with experience. Sorry for all the questions, but I'm debating whether to leave this daunting task for a future owner many years down the road. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Kay NineTwo, thanks for the compliments. Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you. First, the neutral position for all heater A/C doors (that position where all heater doors move to when the system fails or vacuum is stopped) is all heater and defroster doors open so heat and defrost can still function when the system fails. So the heater and defroster will still operate if vacuum is removed from the system. The only thing that will not work if vacuum is removed is the heater valve (because it opens under vacuum) so technically you will not get heat if the heater valve does not open. You can purchase a new vacuum operated heater valve from Bird Nest. Refer to their 2019 catalog page 48 top left hand corner of the page, item D, part number 74604. The only problem with this heater valve is there is no way to attach it to the original heater valve bracket. The vacuum motors that control the heater doors, recirculating air door, front A/C vent, defroster door, and the vacuum operated electrical compressor switch next to the expansion valve, are available new. Refer to Bird Nest 2019 catalog page 45 top left hand corner of page, item B, part number YH161. These may also still be available from Ford. Motorcraft part number YH161. See my video about rebuilding that switch/vacuum motor that shows how to replace the vacuum motor part of the switch. The rear vacuum motor that controls the rear vents behind the back seat is the same vacuum motor YH161. At first you may think after looking at the motor that it doesn't work but it does. You have to dick with it for a while to get it to fit in there. It is very likely that these motors are bad. And if they are not bad, they are 50 plus years old so replace them all. To check them, you just hook a vacuum hose up to them and suck on the vacuum hose. If the motors lever pulls in and you can cap the hose with your tongue and the lever stays in, then there are no leaks and the vacuum motor is still good. If you suck on the hose and the lever keeps wanting to go back out, then it leaks. Its very easy. The pie or pizza control disc with all the pie shaped different color wedges on it can be rebuilt sort of. I take them apart and sand the inside surfaces of the disc. In other words, the disc is two pieces that come together, one piece is stationary and the other, that piece with the control handle on it, moves over the other piece changing where the vacuum goes. These two pieces are machined and are supposed to create a seal as they slide against each other. This mechanism can get dirty, scratched, worn, etc so I sand the machined surfaces with 2000 grit wet sand paper. It helps a little bit I guess. I also blow them out with compressed air and clean the crap out of them and the little ports. I poke the little ports with thin metal wire to be sure they are not plugged by dirt. The plenum (that huge thing under the dash) houses the evaporator and cannot be removed without removing the dash. It is my opinion that if anyone is converting to R134, they should have the evaporator reconditioned and removal of the plenum is required to do that. I did that with the car in the video. Lots of work. I hope this has helped you. Good luck. Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks a ton! It really does help me out. I know have sources for these parts...I still have to decide if I want to tackle this, though. Again, thanks for the video and informative response!
Wow.... I haven't even started replacing mine yet and I already have a headache...... But great job. As to the rear vent by the rear window do they make replacement vacuum components that will work for that? Mine no longer works.....
Yes, the same vacuum motor for the front AC will work in the back, same vacuum motors. They are tricky to get in but they do work. The part number for the vacuum motor is Motorcraft YH161. Oreillys has them and I think you can still get them from Ford?? Good luck.
Yes, I bypassed the heater thermostatic control switch completely, I did not hook up any hoses to it at all, but I did not remove it since that would leave a big hole in the fan box.
Seems simple enough, video and your direction explains very detailed. However! I will be replacing my vacuum hoses with dash in place, big challenge I know. Good winter project. Any advise is greatly appreciated. Where can I get the plastic T's needed for hoses. My car is optioned with all except cruise. Thanks, Ed
You can get vacuum fitting kits at the auto parts store, ya know, a plastic box with many different kinds and sizes. They carry some good ones. Only problem is they are usually white plastic. I have a pile of the original metal T's for the big 7/32 hoses. These T's are used only in the engine compartment. There are several straight brass fittings used in the door lock system too. Under the dash are a few T's that are 7/32 left and right and the odd one is 5/64. Those are plastic and part of the Air and heater system. Just be careful when you reinstall the heater box you don't pinch the vacuum hoses between the heater box and fan box. I've done that a few times. Thanks
Hello Nick, I really enjoyed your explanation of this system. Thank you for producing such great videos. I own a 66 Landau without A/C that will need a heater core replacement. I am aware that the removal of my heater core will be quite different than what you have shown in this video. I have seen other videos that show the removal of a non A/C heater core without removing the dash. I am sure with your experience you have replaced the core, and wanted to get your opinion about this. (maybe a future video?) Thank you, George in Michigan
Hey George, thank you for the compliments. To be honest, in 35 plus years fixing Thunderbirds, I've only done one heater core on a 64-66 Thunderbird without air, I'm not kidding. So many of these cars have air that, for me anyway, it just never happened except for the one time. It seems odd that something like that would happen so rarely. So the only thing that I do remember about doing it is that it was much harder then the cars with air to get the heater box out since it is larger. But I could not tell you any particulars from memory and I do not have a car without air in my possession to which I could use for a video. It seems that I attract only those cars with air. If one comes along, Ill be sure to make a video. Thanks again, Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Hello Nick, Thanks for your reply. I think you are right about most of these Thunderbirds having A/C. I am going to try to do this job without removing the entire dash, taking photos/video as I work on it. (so I remember how it goes back together) Thanks again, George
Hi Nick, My 65 is a factory air car. but it has had an engine change in the past and the new engine has NONE of the aircon parts on it. (I assume it was probably a truck 390 since it has a 2 bbl carb.) Classic Auto Air makes a kit for NON-air cars for about $1600 which includes everything but it is designed to work with the non A/C controls and the non A/C firewall. The other option would be to go original but I am not sure what all is missing or what all original style parts are available. Original Air sent me a quote with "the major" parts, but I'm concerned about finding, wiring and connecting all the "little things".
Hey Chuck, sounds like you have a big decision to make. Its hard and costly to restore an air system in a Thunderbird. The plenum under the dash must come out which means removing the dash board and center console. I have installed or repaired the factory air on many cars and when I do that I tell the customers that the dash must come out and with that out they need to address anything that is wrong with the car dash related and engine related since those are the two places where there is going to be major work. For example, if the dash is cracked, then it will be out and an opportune time to fix it. If the car has vacuum door locks, then that system will be fully exposed with the dash out so perfect time to restore that. Etc. As far as the AC parts in the engine compartment, all you need to do is to look at an air car and see what they have related to what you have, its not hard. The pullies and fan are different and there are some AC brackets for the compressor and then the hoses from the plenum under the dash to the compressor and the condenser and fan shroud. All these parts are available. Birds Nest has all these parts. If you install the Classic Auto Air after market system, what do you do about the plenum under the dash? You must remove the dash to remove the plenum and if you have to do that anyway, why not install original factory air? I cannot imagine that their system will work with the plenum in the way and if you don't restore the plenum, then no system will work. Classic Auto Air can reproduce all the pressurized hoses, they can recondition the evaporator, they can sell you new service valves for the compressor and other misc parts too. The condenser is available new or have your old one reconditioned, the receiver dryer is available new, the expansion valve is available new, all the vacuum motors under the dash are available new, all the vacuum hoses under the dash are available new, etc. You can get everything for the original factory system. The only thing you cannot buy is a new plenum or someone to recondition it. I think you would have to do that yourself. The wiring and all dash related parts you already have so no worries there. I hope this helped. Good luck.
Nick, thanks very much for your channel and for sharing your significant knowledge and experience. I'm getting prepared to attack the vacuum system in my 66 Landau with AC. To start, I purchased some A/C Heater Control Units to play with / restore. One is from June 64 and the other April 65. What I've noticed on both, is that the temperature control valve within the control unit, bleeds slowly when I perform a vacuum leak test. Is this normal or are they defective? I haven't seen replacement parts being sold, unless I'm searching using the wrong terms.
Thank you very much Glenn. I think there should be no vacuum leaks in the valves. I don't think they make that valve anymore but I'm sure you can find a good used one. Try the Birds Nest. Good luck.
Hi Nick, just bought a 65 landau and found your videos. Thanks for all the info and help. Do you know why I would hear a vacuum leak under my drivers side dash but only when I put the shifter in gear ? It goes away when I put in park or neutral. Thanks, Roy
Hey Roy, thank you. The neutral safety switch controls the release of the emergency brake via vacuum. When the car is in park or neutral, the neutral safety switch blocks vacuum to the emergency brake pedal assembly so it will stay engaged. When you put the car in gear, the neutral safety switch sends vacuum to the emergency brake pedal assembly releasing it so you can proceed down the road. You are hearing the leak because either the neutral safety switch is faulty and leaking vacuum or the vacuum hose has fallen off. Easy fix, just look under the dash. The neutral safety switch is attached to the steering column. Good luck.
No, I do not have a video for that, sorry. Its not hard to remove, you need to remove the dash facing first, then 4 screws hold the control unit to the center console.
I have a 64 with air that has no heat in the cabin. If I apply vacuum to the water valve the heat works full time. I have no vacuum at the brown hose on the color wheel and still have the original thermostatic control switch in the loop. Is there a source under the dash to supply vacuum to the black wedge on the color wheel? Am I on the right track? Amazing video , thanks!!
The small hose (Gates 27041) that leads from the vacuum cannister in the engine compartment, goes through the firewall and "T's" into a larger hose (Gates 27043), and that larger hose goes to the thermostatic control valve and to the temp control valve on the dash. This is the source for all the vacuum under the dash for heater and A/C (not emergency brake or rear vent, that is a separate source hose, as is the door locks). The smaller hose going through the firewall "T's" into this larger hose right above the heater box next to the thermostatic control valve when the thermostatic control valve is still hooked up. Then there is another T near where this larger hose goes into the temperature control valve on the dash, and that T sends another smaller hose to the black wedge on the pie disc, just like in my video. This is all assuming that you have the thermostatic control valve hooked up. If it is not hooked up like in my video, there is only one T near the temperature control valve and the small hose going through the firewall goes all the way down to that T near the temperature control valve the way it is in the video. The other side of the temperature control valve is a smaller hose (Gates 27041) and that goes to silver wedge on the pie disc. Another way to explain it, you have a large hose going from the temp control valve on the dash to the thermostatic control valve by the fan. In that hose you have two "T's," one sending a smaller hose to the engine via the vacuum cannister near the battery, and another smaller hose to the black wedge on the pie disc. This is all assuming the thermostatic control valve is still hooked up. If you decide to bypass the thermostatic control valve , then eliminate the T by the thermostatic control valve, eliminate the larger hose mentioned above, and run the smaller source hose from the engine all the way to the black wedge on the pie disc and T off a short large hose to the temp control valve. Just like in my video. I hope that is not too confusing. Thanks for listening. Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I understand from the video how to bypass my faulty thermostatic control valve and supply vacuum to the variable control head and black triangle. The part that is not yet clear is how the vacuum signal gets back to the water valve. It seems a T is needed in the silver vacuum line and back to the valve. Thanks for your patience and help!
Hey Rocketeer, the brown wedge on the pie disc, next to the silver wedge, supplies the heater valve. That is the vacuum hose that supplies the heater valve with vacuum. Run a vacuum hose from that brown wedge directly to the heater valve and that's it. I hope that helped, Nick
Hey Nick. Thanks for the videos. What is this vacuum regulator for? See picture. It’s in the 1965 ford shop Manual, section 16-10. I did find it in my 1965 a/c system. Don’t know how to check it except to blow through it. Any suggestions, can I eliminate this with no consequence to the a/c working like it should? You are the best mechanic I have found regarding these thirds. Thanks for your dedication to these great old cars. Jim
Hey Jim, the "vacuum regulator" that is shown on the vacuum diagram on page 16-10 is actually the temperature regulator valve, it is attached to the lever that adjusts the temperature minimum-maximum. I believe they named it incorrectly but I guess it is a vacuum regulator just the same.
OK thanks Nick. Just so I’m clear, is that in place of the thermostatic control switch that’s above the heater box that you bypassed. Maybe in place of is not the right word but does it serve the same purpose, can I eliminate it.
How does the temperature slider control work if you bypass the temperature regulator valve? Does it do anything? I don't really know how the slider works in the first place so bare with me on that one.
The temp control slider is a vacuum switch that applies more or less vacuum when the slider is moved. The thermostatic switch was to safeguard the fan box from excessive heat and would lower the heat or turn it off if the fan compartment got too hot. It would do that by lessening or increasing the vacuum to the heater valve. Even if the temperature slier control was just on or off, it would then turn the heater valve on or off. If you have too much heat blowing out the vents you could simply turn it off. The difference between the two is that the thermostatic control valve had a bimetalic strip that would lessen or close the vacuum off depending on the temp. The temp control slider is simply a manual left and right "more or less" switch with no bimetalic strip.
I have a video on repairing the motor, loading the regulator and operation once back into the door but I do not have one showing removal or installation. Are you talking about door window motors? Try removing the door panel and while someone is pushing the switch, hit the motor with a hammer and see if that jars it loose. However, you first must determine that power is in fact reaching the motor. If power is reaching the motor, you will get a dimming of the dome lights as you push the window switch. If you get no dimming of the dome lights, then either power is not getting to the motor or the motor has an internal problem like its rusty or something. You can also try applying power to the motor directly once the door panel is off. This will give it extra power to move. Its not uncommon for window motors to become stuck once all the way up or down. This happens on my own 66 so I just don't roll them all the way up or down. Ill get to it some day.
Thats funny because I thought about that yesterday. Ill do one eventually. I have to do the one for this car Im working on so when that happens, Ill make a video. Thanks.
Hi Nick. I have 2 questions I hope you can help me with #1 I keep seeing a "vacuum check valve" offered for the 1966 Thunderbird possibly only for AC equipped cars. I've seen it mentioned on a vacuum layout diagram and position right after the vacuum source point on the engine, before the lines are connected to anything else. Can you verify whether one is actually needed. I see one on Birds Nest and it has 3 ports which is also a bit confusing. #2 I see in this video that you have the second tip capped off on the brass fitting that comes out of the intake where the vacuum is supplied. What is that second fitting for? Thanks in advance!
Hey Lance, a vacuum check valve is always used on vacuum systems. They are a one way valve to prevent air from being forced into the vacuum system when the engine back fires or something like that. It protects the vacuum system since it must be under vacuum, not pressure. If the car were to back fire, then it could blow out all the vacuum motors. So the check valve allows the engine to suck out all the air, create vacuum, but it does not let air back into the vacuum system. So its important to install the check valve properly too obviously. The extra port on the brass fitting is for the vacuum door lock system. This car does not have that so that fitting is capped off. I hope that has helped. Thanks.
Love the videos!!! Gives my son and I the confidence to do these repairs. I can't tell you how incredibly valuable your videos are, THANK YOU!!!! We have a 1966 Thunderbird and are having same trouble as "Auto Anatomy", our AC/Heater Control unit vacuum control head distribution head thing is leaking. There is some rubber or plastic disc in the round head that has disintegrated or dried out. Have not been able to find the part anywhere or anyplace that would refurbish/rebuild the vacuum control head colored pizza pie disc vacuum distribution head thing. Do you know where I could get the parts or send in my part for rebuild? Thanks again for making repairs easy to understand, even with the shop manual, without you we would be lost!!!!
On the 65' model vacuum controlled on/off switch for the ac, what is the little copper tube/wire looking thing for that comes off the switch frame? The one I have is only about 1" long and all the pics I have seen it is really long, but I can't find where it goes and what it is for. Do I need it etc...? Thanks
Hey Justin, I just saw your comment so please forgive me for not responding sooner. The switch you mean is under the dash and controlled by the yellow vacuum hose right? That tube is a capillary tube and it goes into the evaporator and senses temperature. If the evaporator gets too cold, the capillary tube senses this and shuts the AC off. Yes, the tube should be very long, maybe between 1 foot and 1 1/2 foot long? Something like that. It is pushed into the evaporator in the center. If you open the front AC vent, somewhere near the center of the evaporator, you should see an area where the fins are pushed away slightly to allow the tube to enter the evaporator. Good luck.
Hey Ben, if you mean the brown color coded vacuum hose, it connects to the pie disc, the control unit. There is a brown color coded fitting on the disc, it goes there.
Hey Nick, I got all the lines ran and replaced, but when I turn on the fan I get no air. The fan is working, so I was going to replace the blower motor. Does it come out from the inside or the engine bay?
Hey Branson, the fan and blower motor come out through the engine compartment side. I'm confused, you said the fan is working but your going to replace the blower motor. The blower motor runs the fan so if the fan is working, then the blower motor must be okay. I don't get it.
I have a 63 factory T-bird and my HVAC system is not working. I plan to start tearing it apart, a little scared I will admit. Are you in California by chance?
Hey kw, no I am in Colorado. However, my videos about the vacuum systems are almost identical to those used in the 1961-63 Thunderbirds. The only difference is that the 1961-63 use cables for the defroster and AC clutch switch. But otherwise the vacuum system is exactly the same, the plenum is almost identical and the routing of all hoses is exactly the same. It is not hard to do this, just time consuming. Take photos of everything, every hose, every nut and bolt, the positions of everything. Then you will have something to reference later when reassembling. Thats how I learned. Good luck.
The white color coded vacuum hose goes to the recirculating door that is in the fan compartment. The recirculating door closes off the heater core and allows air to recirculate when the air conditioning is on.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 ahhhhhh ok gotcha thanks alot Nick. I started buckling down and replacing the hoses today and I decided to borrow your color coded zip tie idea 👌👊💪 You have a goodevening brother, I cant thank you enough!
Nick, at 3:08 you mention removing the 2 air supply screws. I’m having trouble removing this air supply so I can get to the heater core for replacement. What am I missing? 1966 with air. Thanks, Mike
Hey Mike, that "air horn" (for lack of a better name) is attached to the evaporator box with one hex screw on the bottom and it is hooked to the evaporator box at the top. Once you undo the hex screw at the bottom, you can lift up on the air horn and pull it off the hook. Scrape some of the tar off and you will see what I am talking about. Good luck.
Thank you, thank you again. That 5/16 hex screw would have been impossible to find without scraping off the tar. It was on the bottom behind a cluster of wires. You the man!
I am wondering do you know why my 1965 thunderbird with P R N ° ● L does not shift in to 3rd I know green dot is drive. I tried gasing it then letting go to see if it shifts I'm at a loss thanks .
Hi, when the cruisomatic transmission goes bad, it stops shifting into 3rd and reverse, usually until it fully warms up. So when you first start it in the morning when it is cold, it wont go into reverse or 3rd. Once warm, it starts to shift properly. Ultimately it will stop shifting completely. Its also possible the modulator is either disconnected or defective. When the seals in the trans get old they get hard and stop sealing when cold. Once warm, they soften up and start to seal and then the trans starts to shift properly. There are two solutions to this problem, one is temporary. The temporary solution is to put a conditioner in the trans, a seal softener conditioner that will soften the seals. This usually works for a time. Ultimately this conditioner will eat away at the seals and ruin them in the long run but this takes time. The permanent solution is to rebuild the trans. Good luck.
Hey Nick! I ended up running a new source hose into the car to bypass the thermostatic control valve. When I get it to the back of the pie wheel, it is going to T off into the temperature control valve. Do I also need to attach the source to the rear vent switch off of this source hose at the pie wheel? Or is there a separate source hose for the rear vents? Also, how can I connect the 5/64" hose into the 7/32" hose?
There is only one source hose and everything T's off that so the rear vents also T off the same source hose. You will need to use an adaptor fitting to connect two different size hoses.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I see in the engine bay on the passenger side firewall at the very bottom a vacuum line goes in there. Is this for the rear vent and door locks? Should I T it off in the engine bay or under the dash?
@@bransonmckee745 Yes, that vacuum line is for the emergency brake, neutral safety switch, and rear vent. Sorry, I forgot about that line. Technically it is a second source line but not for the air condition or heater, just the ebrake, NS switch, and rear vent. If you had vacuum door locks you would have a third source line going through the firewall directly to the door lock junction block under the dash on the passenger side. Again, my diagrams show all this. Have you not seen those?
Hi, ok you might get ‘upset’ at this question but I have to ask: is there a way (kluge) to put in a manual method (post, pusher rod etc) to open and close the heater door? I really don’t want to trouble shoot the whole vacuum system taking the whole dash apart (I will make a mess of it and the Wife will yell at me, again…). Thanks Mike in NH with. 65 HT. And I don’t use the AC…
Hey Mik, I think both the wife and I have to yell at you for that one. I have never made any such modification so I do not have any kind of procedure or idea on how to do that. It seems to me that your effort to modify it might equal the effort to fix it right?? That has always been my feeling on mods. I cant help you on that one, sorry. However, fixing the vacuum system is not hard and you do not have to pull the dash. Removing all the access panels, radio and speaker will give you access to all the vacuum hoses and vacuum motors. The hardest one to get at is the defroster. The one your speaking of that controls the heater door can only be replaced by removing the heater box which I think is also not hard. These repairs are just time consuming and I guess intimidating when you have never done it before. For example, only 8 nuts hold the heater box to the car, 4 on the firewall and 4 in the fan compartment, all of which are very easy to get at. It then comes back a inch or so, then down and out. It goes in in reverse order. Its not hard. Once you have the heater box out, you will have full access to all vacuum hoses. When I first did it, I removed one hose at a time and then it was done. The vacuum motors just unscrew and screw back in. Yes, you must be a contortionist to get at some of them so remove the front seats for extra room to lay down on the floor. It not hard but it is time consuming. And you will have to spend a few bucks on hoses and vacuum motors. Once its fixed you will be very happy and then your wife will stop yelling at you. Happy days.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 hi, I did a 'work around' that appears to work. My mechanic did as I requested to find a 'low cost' way of getting the heat on. The easiest (least expensive') way is to (and I wish I could post a picture here) is to connect a vacuum hose under the hood on the passenger side of the engine area to the hose that engages the 'heater door' (which was permanently closed). When this is done, the heat is 'on'- yet minimally when the fan is off and not in the 1-2-3 position. The side window helps diffuse the heat when the outside temperature is a bit warmer during the day. Here in N.H., it is in the 60's pretty much now and I plan to drive this 1965 Beast in the winter when there is no ice/snow on the roads. Else, we would have had to taken apart the front dash to find the problem since initial disassembly did not show us the problem and further dissection would have been needed.... Not the best solution- but maybe when I have more $$ I can dive further into this. thanks,
Okay, a few things you should know. When the heater door is "open," it closes off the heater core, blocks the heater core, and lets air recirculate within the car, it is taking air from inside the car and sending it through the evaporator for the AC and not taking air through the heater core. When the heater door is "closed," it is closing off any air from inside the car and letting air from outside the car come into the car, pass through the heater core and then into the fan compartment. The heater door is "closed" normally when there is no vacuum applied to the vacuum motor controlling it. This means that when you look under the dash at the heater box, you see the heater door behind directly behind the screen, you cannot see the fan unless you push the door away from the screen. this is the normal position for the heater door when no vacuum is applied. This is the correct position for the heater door to allow the heater to work. When the heater door is closed, it allows air to pass through the heater core, into the fan compartment and then out the heater ducts and/or defroster in case of a failure of the vacuum system so these systems still work. So you do not need to apply any vacuum to the heater door to make it work for the heater. If you take a vacuum hose from the engine and go directly to the heater valve in the engine compartment, this will turn on the flow of hot water through the heater core so you will get heat in the car. If electricity is hooked up to the fan, you can use the fan normally to control the flow of heat. You wont be able to control the temperature but you can control the flow of heat with the fan. If you remove the vacuum hose from the heater valve, then you will have no heat unless the valve is defective and stuck open. Your description of your mechanic applying vacuum to the heater door to allow the heater to work is incorrect unless there is something seriously wrong with your system. The heater door is normally closed and would allow the heater to work even if the vacuum system is removed from the car. I hope this info has helped. l
You are talking about the thermostatic control valve in the fan compartment for the heater valve right? Not the thermostatic control switch for the air conditioning clutch. The thermostatic control valve for the heater protects the system from overheating from heat from the heater core. It is a vacuum valve that is temperature controlled to shut off when the bimetallic spring overheats shutting off vacuum to the heater valve. Since there is no replacement or repair for the thermostatic control valve what else can you do? I have found no other resolve other then to bypass it completely. Otherwise, the system works exactly like before it was bypassed. Thanks.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 thank you im trying to hook my vacuum lines up in engine compartment and everything was just such a mess so ill probably have to pull out dash and check what was done in there for ac as well.
@@lurkerine If your just rebuilding the vacuum system, you do not need to pull the dash. You do however need to pull the heater box and all dash access panels for access under the dash including the panel where the clock is. Obviously there is less access room when the dash is out but ultimately it is less work. Good luck.
No. However, Im just about to install the dash on this car Im working on. Ill see if I can put one together on installation. Going in reverse will instruct you on how to take apart. Thanks, Nick
Im kind of lost this system is a nightmare lol, anyway I have a 65 so the canister on the fire wall the big hose goes to what goes to the small port on that canister? Also the lack hose that goes to the pie what is the configuration of the bigger and smaller ones?
th-cam.com/video/dYd7LWQf2ao/w-d-xo.html Hey snkeyes, here is a link to a video where I show the vacuum system diagrams and the sizes of hoses and everything, you cant go wrong with these. I know the systems are intimidating at first but they really are not that hard. Study the diagrams, you can figure it out, its not hard. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 The Only 1 I am having a hard time with is the source hose where in the video you have it set the way you do for testing, so what is the correct way for hooking up the black hose? Is it just a offset T?
@@snkeyes-ri2hd In the stock configuration the small 7/64 black source hose that goes to the pie disc control on the dash comes from the largest hose coming off the thermostatic switch under the dash in the fan compartment. The large 7/32 hose goes from the thermostatic switch to the temperature control switch next to the pie disc on the control on the dash. The small 7/64 black source hose that goes to the pie disc T's off this large 7/32 hose somewhere near the control unit on the dash. Just pick a spot near it, maybe a few inches away. My diagram shows this. I hope that helped.
Also, this is complicated because I bypassed the thermostatic control switch in the fan compartment so I have the source hose hooked up differently and I used a smaller hose for it. I hooked it up this way for testing because I bypassed the thermostatic switch so I had it hooked up funky. I ended up keeping it this way in the finished product. I guess your having trouble reading my diagram. The shop manual also has a full diagram of the vacuum hoses. In a nut shell, I ran a 7/64 small hose from the engine compartment and ran it all the way to the control on the dash and T'ed off that to go to the black wedge on the pie disc and to the temperature switch. You can clearly see this at 7:30 in my video where I even name the hose and you can see where I T it off to the black wedge and to the temperature switch. This source hose comes directly from the engine compartment where it is T'ed off the large hose connected to the brass fitting on the intake manifold. But remember, this is because I bypassed the thermostatic control switch. Good luck.
Yes, there is a junction block behind the dash on the passenger side and two hoses go from that junction block to each door. The hose from the canister goes to the junction block.
@@Tachdout NO, the junction block for the vacuum door locks is behind the dash, not on the intake manifold. The brass block on the intake manifold is the source for the vacuum.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 yes the source junction block was the one I was referring too I’m just trying to make sure I make art out of this shit storm of hoses that were never connected and just hanging around lol I’ll locate the junction box under the dash today after work , Thank you Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I did some research and found the junction block passenger side I was always looking at it and wondering what it was and the function, now I know👍 Thank you for pointing me in the right direction Nick ! Have a good day brother✊
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks Nick. Perfect. Now for the nylon looking button sliders on the swing away steering column. Do you know where to source those. With one completely sheared off amid gummed up old grease, the swing away binds. Thanks Nick, your knowledge is unsurpassed. Cheers. Bill
Another question, the little "valve" for the min-max is leaking a small amount of smoke while looking for leaks. Is this rebuild able? According to the smoke test this appears to be my last leak. Thanks
Hey Justin, I have never heard or seen one that has been rebuilt. Actually, I've never seen a bad one. I think you can only get used ones. Try the Birds Nest, they should have some good used ones. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Change of subject, do you know of a re-manufactured or something that will at least work for the defrost duct? All the original ones I have found just crumble when you touch them. I have to figure something out for the drivers side.
Hi Nick, thank you for the video! Does the thermostatic control valve shut off the water flow to the heater core? If so, is it plumbed between the water inlet and the heater core? I have a 63 and there is no water flow through the heater core. I tried to blow through the hoses from the engine side and it seems to be blocked. I'm wondering if the thermostatic control valve is the problem but I didn't see any pictures of how it connects to the heater core. Thank you,
Hi, sorry for the late reply, I somehow missed your comment. The thermostatic control valve shuts off vacuum to the heater system therefore shutting off the heater valve and stopping flow. There is no water connection to the heater core or engine, it is purely vacuum.
I didn't reply sooner because I didn't know what to say to that. I can't believe that you just threw it all away and now there is nothing under the dash. That just devalued the car if anything. You didn't expect all this stuff to stay new after 50 plus years?? Hopefully you just said that out of frustration and you didn't really throw it away. That would be a shame.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 yessir ive worked on over 20k vehicles in my 33 yrs. when junk is junk, toss it. i keep reading about some cars not coming with heaters back in the day. that it was a option? that is crazy! i am looking for the delete plate that goes in place of the old blower motor.
@@icantintyou Yeah, maybe in the 30's it was an option, not in a Thunderbird. Thunderbird is about sporty luxury, not luxury while your freezing to death. Anyway, its your car so I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 yea, i plan on replacing it with a new vintage air kit. its by no means a valuable car. i never overbuild for the neighborhood. someone neglected this old car and im in the process of getting it going again, ive got some pics of t birds with no heaters from the factory. no air car as well. your work is very informative and i see you take great pride in it. i love your videos.
I cannot thank you enough for making these videos. You have no idea how much fear you removed attacking the dash on a 66 tbird i just bought. its in cherry shape but the only thing that seems to not be working is the dash vacuum system / vacuum door locks. but now that i watched your video. its WAY WAY more simple than I realized. I now walk into this dashboard with zero fear. Thank you Sir!
Thanks Sib, I appreciate that. Glad to help.
No wonder why the dealership mechanics hated to work on these. This is very informative!
I doubt many of them understood it.
Thanks so much for this. I am old and was an a/c and electrical specialist for a few years in the 70s and 80s. The sensing bulb or coil on expansion valve will give you lower a/c vent temp if it is metal cuff clipped or 2 worm clamped tonthe suction line and then insulated very well. The expansion will throttle down refrig flow and your evap pressure will be lower. This encourages the evaporation phase of system. When the sensing tube is hotter, exp valve opens more and floods evap and evaporation is reduced. You'll serious sweating of low side line and even lower sensed temp of that low side line back to compressor because that refrigerant did do it's job in the evaporator. Those cuff clamps rust and fall apart.
Hey Jimmy, thank you very much for the expansion valve explanation. I admit that I dont know that much about how an expansion valve works other than it sprays freon into the evaporator. I should study it more. Thanks again.
I just wanted to thank you for making a great detailed video of how this complicated system works. So many thunderbird owners cant seem to figure it out on thier own and give up out of frustration. The other thing i can't find anywhere is the instructions on how the trunk matts are assembled. Even when you buy new replacements, there's no installation instructions. Love the video. Keep em comin!!
Thank you very much for the compliments. The system is very intimidating when you don't know it. I am surprised at just how simple it is and how easy it is to rebuild it since it is only a few vacuum motors and some hoses, but its easy for me to say that since I've fixed hundreds. If someone decided to rebuild the plenum and recondition the evaporator, then the dash must come out and then the job becomes a monster. The daunting thing for me is the amount of work it is to remove the dash and all related parts to get to it. However, like I mentioned in the video, the dash does not have to be removed to repair the vacuum system itself but all dash and center console access panels must be removed including the radio, heater control, and clock tower (the panel where the clock is).
The trunk mat kits are (in my opinion) okay at best. The material is not original (vinyl instead of burtex like original) and they are never cut correctly so some level of fitting and trimming is required. The boards are the hardest part because they are also not cut properly, difficult to work with, and require quite a bit of fitting and trimming. I'm a perfectionist and I spend too much time trying to get them to fit perfectly which is impossible so I usually spend too much time beating a dead horse. I've never seen a kit that had an instruction manual on how to install. Just try to identify each piece and where it goes. Then start with the boards first, get them fitted, trimmed and installed. Then install the mats. However, when fitting and trimming the boards, have the mats handy and place them when fitting the boards so you know how they are going to fit together. Never glue anything in place until you are 100% sure it is fitted and trimmed properly and fits together with its neighboring piece. Thank you, Nick
OMG!! I now know why the heat doesn’t get hot! Both defrost and cabin heat! Dang, looks like a heck of a lot of work! And, by the way, the air conditioning is missing the compressor, clutch, pulley and belt. I think even if that were all there, the vacuum system wouldn’t allow cold air! Geez Louise. A lot more work than I thought!
Nick, thanks for the great video…even though I am now depressed lol!
Thanks Gary. You should be happy because now you know how to fix it. Thats a plus.
I have a 1966 Ford Thunderbird that has been the project of a few previous owners, none of which did the vacuum lines right. Some are missing, some are plugged, but this video really helps with a lot of them, it makes it feel less overwhelming and confusing. Thanks for posting this.
Your welcome Andy.
Its unfortunate that most of the Thunderbirds I've seen look like they have been through the gauntlet of disrepair. There are so many people that try to redesign these cars and fail miserably, plus the ones that end up abandoned and forgotten. Because these cars seem so complicated and difficult to fix, they just got neglected. They are not like Mustangs that are so basic and simple to fix. That's one of the things that make the Mustang so darn popular. However, it has always surprised me at just how relatively simple most things were on the Thunderbird, it was just getting past the fear of the unknown. And with TH-cam and an iPhone today, its so much easier to find the info you need to help you along.
Wow what a great video you saved me days of trying to figure this out
Thanks Duncan, glad to help. It can be very overwhelming.
Wow thank you for detailed directions on this maze.
No problemo.
Another winner
I have a 65 Landau and we are going to start the AC system rebuild/ Vacuum line repairs Saturday and I will definitely be using this video as I do it!!! thank you
Your welcome Branson.
Well done Nick,
you truly have a positive way of explaining things! Most appreciated!
Thanks Tom, that is greatly appreciated.
Edward Rousseau Great video and explanations. Thank you for making these.
Hey Joan, your welcome.
I love this video!
Thank you Luis
WOW Thank you for the detailed video. I had my entire AC/Heater box refurbished and will be reinstalling it and the dash in the next week or so. Although I took pictures as I disassembled, this video make it so much clearer.
Your welcome Jeff.
Thank you so much for this video! Every video you make for the T-Birds are gold! Excellent!
thank you very much
Thank you Nick! I got the t-bird running! Now I have a bunch of leaks, lol. One is the heater core - so this video is perfect for my 66. The other is a pretty good size oil leak in the back. One step at a time. -Robert
Great videos!!
Dear Nick, just in time as I was hoping to reinstall my repaired dash for my '65... I have the door locks and more hoses than an ICU ward. That "gold" thing that is WAY in the back by the incoming air down boot, I can just by pass? I have to use long pliers to get a hose in it as I can not reach back there. So cool... or at least I hope it will be when all hooked back up.. That gold thing sure looks like a vacuum actuator to me... so hard to see back there. Well if I have trouble ill let you know. you have always been a help. God bless.
Hey Michael, thank you very much. I think your talking about the thermostatic control valve. Yes, you can bypass it and just take the brown vacuum hose to the heater valve. good luck
Excellent video, thank you.
Your Welcome.
Awesome video , detailed and very well explained !
Thank you Manitou
thanks as always,i watched this to try to figure out why when going down the road i get air coming out of my ac vents just while driving on my 66.Im stumped.
Hey Robert, this is an easy one, your right vent boot is compromised. The right vent boot is rubber and it is the connection between the cowl and heater box. When it disintegrates there is nothing to stop air from blowing in on the passenger side. Also, if the right vent door is open, air will also blow in. Also, if the vacuum system is not working, the recirculating air door that blocks off the heater core will also not close. So, if the right vent is open and the recirculating air door is open, air will blow into the entire heater/AC unit under the dash and you will get air blowing out of all the vents. Every 1964-66 Thunderbird has a bad right vent boot. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks Nick
when you say right vent boot you mean the fresh air inlet correct?iv changed the hose that connects that fresh air inlet to the flapper that closes.im starting to think its something with the heater door.
Again thanks
Thank you for producing these amazing Tbird technical videos. More people need to know about them. Would love to see one on the convertible top operation as I have a 66 QCODE convertible. Regards, Gordon.
Thank you Gordon. I was thinking about doing one explaining just how the top mechanism works and maybe some diagnostic tips. Ill get to it eventually.
Wow this video really helps
Thank you.
Thanks Nick for the video. Those heater vacuum motors are a pain to get to. Especially the one on the right. Mine doesn’t work and I’m getting a lot of hot air mixed with my AC. I wish when the motors fail they fail with the door closed and not open. Oh well trying to change that heater vacuum motor is going to be a tough job.
Hi Jim, yes the factory wanted the doors to remain open in case of failure so the defroster and heater would still work. Makes sense to me.
That does make sense. Thank you. Do you happen to have any convertible top frame arms for 61 to 66 convertibles laying around in your shop. They are like hens teeth to find. Mine both broke on my 63M code probably due to the top not being down in a very long while most likely. Though the owner i just bought it from said he had it down in April. So sad, I am looking for a welder here which I may have found and see how well they might be able to be welded. I have called around to all the Thunderbird Parts places and Pat Wilson has a driver side but no passenger side. Thanks for any help you can give. I thought with all the Thunderbird you’ve done maybe you have a set of these laying around somewhere. LOL thanks for all your great work, I look forward to your videos very much. Jim
Hey Jim, sorry but I do not have any top arms for 61-63. I do have 64-66. Yes you can have them welded and make sure you find a GOOD welder, someone who is very experienced with welding cast aluminum. I have had those done many times when I was in Los Angeles. Thats the way to go. Good luck, Nick
Vintage Thunderbird Repair thanks Nick, I’m going to see the welder tonight and he can tell me whether he can do them. He is an experienced welder but he’s never done these before. So we’ll see.
thanks so much Nick. Can you tell me the difference between the 63 and the 64 through 66 top frame arms. I thought they were all the same. I just left my welder friend and he thinks he can weld my top frame arms. but we will see how well they come out. Thanks.
Thank you for a fantastic description on what going on with the vacuum lines. I replaced all my vacuum lines with a different manufacture vacuum line and been having nothing but problems. Using the mighty vac I'm finding leaks at the connection points on the 7/64 lines. I want to verify that this is the proper size that is used to go to all the vacuum actuators? The vacuum system diagram I have actually shows on the 1st page 7/64 on page two it indicates 5/64. I am suspecting inferior quality vacuum lines The hose seam to leak no matter what fitting you put it on, even at the connection to the mighty vac. I am in process of order the Gates vacuum line you suggested in your video.... I am so glad a didn't install the dash yet. Thanks Jeff
All the vacuum lines going from the round colored pie shaped control disc on the dash (heater-A/C control) to the vacuum motors or actuators is the 7/64" hose. There is only one place where the 7/32" size hose is used for the A/C and heater, from the thermostatic control valve to the round colored pie shaped control disc on the dash. All other hoses (for the A/C and heater) under the dash are the 7/64" hose. The vacuum door locks are a completely different system and use both the 5/32" hose and the 7/32" hose. The source hose for the A/C and heater coming into the car from the engine compartment is also a 7/64" hose. The heater valve hose going from the thermostatic control valve to the heater valve is the 5/32" hose. I only use Gates hoses and belts on everything. I never use Goodyear. I also never buy Goodyear tires. Same thing with Standard products. Junk!!!!! Also, Fram. Compare the folds in a Fram air filter to any other brand. You can then imagine what their oil filters must look like! Junk!!!! I've learned my lesson the hard way over time with these products.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Looks like my problem is, I used the wrong size hose. Two follow questions - The 5/64 is that inside diameter? Do you happen to have a PN for a 50' roll. Your help is appreciated.....Thank You
Yes, the size means the inside diameter. The part numbers for the 50' rolls of hoses are shown in the video but I will list them here too. Gates 27041 = 7/64". Gates 27042 = 5/32". Gates 27043 = 7/32".
Jeff, I was wrong, I made a mistake stating the correct size of the hose used inside the car to the pie controller. The correct size for the pie controller to all the vacuum motors is 7/64". Im very sorry to make that mistake. 27041 gates hose is 7/64" not 5/64". Also the source hose for the ac heater from the engine compartment to under the dash is also 7/64". I corrected/edited my comment to you with the correct size hose. Thanks, Nick
@@Jsteencken No, I made a mistake, its 7/64, see my correction comment below.
Great detailed video on the vacuum system. Thank you very much. Do you have one detailing the heater core replacement on a 1964? Thank you again.
If your car has air, its the same as the 66 in my video. I don't exactly show removing the heater core but I do explain how to take out the heater box. From there its a no brainer. Sorry that my answer is late, I didn't see your post.
Brilliant video...Re bypassing the thermostatic control switch (old and not repairable etc.), I assume just means the A/C is constantly "ON" when selected "ON"?
No temperature sensing & control any more?
No, the thermostatic control switch Im talking about controls the heater valve. It is located in the fan compartment. It shuts off the heater valve when things get too hot. Because they are not available, you simply bypass it and go straight to the heater valve with the brown hose. Its a little bit more complicated than that, I made is sound so easy.
Thank you for an awesome and informative video. I have the interior out of my '65, and I'm debating whether to reactivate the vacuum operated HVAC system, which was disconnected because of leaks in the system, I presume. My car has AC, but doesn't have the vacuum powered door locks. (RIght now, the only HVAC function I have is heat through the defroster, which is minimally acceptable, as if I'm ever caught in an ice storm, that's the function I'll need the most. Heater core seems good. I've replaced the vacuum operated heater control valve with a manually controlled unit that can be shut off or turned on seasonally.)
I don't mind the work in accessing and replacing the vacuum lines, but I'm worried that the some/most of the vacuum powered vent panel motors/canisters might be leaking and in need of replacement. It sounds/looks like the recirculating air, defroster, main air conditioning vent, compressor clutch switch are available as new replacement units. WHERE CAN I BUY THOSE? I looked at Pat Wilson's and the bird's nest for a cursory check and didn't see anything.
Also, is the rear interior vent canister (behind the rear seat) available new? How likely is it that all/most of these units will not be working on my car (I assume they're all original.) How do I check them? Will it be likely that my CONTROL UNIT will also be leaking? And can it be rebuilt if it is? I want to do all of this without taking out my dash. If I need a new evaporator for the AC, can that be installed without taking out the dash? I DO have the shop manual, but I want to check with someone with experience.
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm debating whether to leave this daunting task for a future owner many years down the road. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Kay NineTwo, thanks for the compliments. Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you. First, the neutral position for all heater A/C doors (that position where all heater doors move to when the system fails or vacuum is stopped) is all heater and defroster doors open so heat and defrost can still function when the system fails. So the heater and defroster will still operate if vacuum is removed from the system. The only thing that will not work if vacuum is removed is the heater valve (because it opens under vacuum) so technically you will not get heat if the heater valve does not open. You can purchase a new vacuum operated heater valve from Bird Nest. Refer to their 2019 catalog page 48 top left hand corner of the page, item D, part number 74604. The only problem with this heater valve is there is no way to attach it to the original heater valve bracket.
The vacuum motors that control the heater doors, recirculating air door, front A/C vent, defroster door, and the vacuum operated electrical compressor switch next to the expansion valve, are available new. Refer to Bird Nest 2019 catalog page 45 top left hand corner of page, item B, part number YH161. These may also still be available from Ford. Motorcraft part number YH161. See my video about rebuilding that switch/vacuum motor that shows how to replace the vacuum motor part of the switch.
The rear vacuum motor that controls the rear vents behind the back seat is the same vacuum motor YH161. At first you may think after looking at the motor that it doesn't work but it does. You have to dick with it for a while to get it to fit in there. It is very likely that these motors are bad. And if they are not bad, they are 50 plus years old so replace them all. To check them, you just hook a vacuum hose up to them and suck on the vacuum hose. If the motors lever pulls in and you can cap the hose with your tongue and the lever stays in, then there are no leaks and the vacuum motor is still good. If you suck on the hose and the lever keeps wanting to go back out, then it leaks. Its very easy.
The pie or pizza control disc with all the pie shaped different color wedges on it can be rebuilt sort of. I take them apart and sand the inside surfaces of the disc. In other words, the disc is two pieces that come together, one piece is stationary and the other, that piece with the control handle on it, moves over the other piece changing where the vacuum goes. These two pieces are machined and are supposed to create a seal as they slide against each other. This mechanism can get dirty, scratched, worn, etc so I sand the machined surfaces with 2000 grit wet sand paper. It helps a little bit I guess. I also blow them out with compressed air and clean the crap out of them and the little ports. I poke the little ports with thin metal wire to be sure they are not plugged by dirt.
The plenum (that huge thing under the dash) houses the evaporator and cannot be removed without removing the dash. It is my opinion that if anyone is converting to R134, they should have the evaporator reconditioned and removal of the plenum is required to do that. I did that with the car in the video. Lots of work. I hope this has helped you. Good luck. Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks a ton! It really does help me out. I know have sources for these parts...I still have to decide if I want to tackle this, though. Again, thanks for the video and informative response!
Wow.... I haven't even started replacing mine yet and I already have a headache...... But great job. As to the rear vent by the rear window do they make replacement vacuum components that will work for that? Mine no longer works.....
Yes, the same vacuum motor for the front AC will work in the back, same vacuum motors. They are tricky to get in but they do work. The part number for the vacuum motor is Motorcraft YH161. Oreillys has them and I think you can still get them from Ford?? Good luck.
When you bypassed the temperature control switch, did you just ignore it was there and not run any vacuum to it at all
Yes, I bypassed the heater thermostatic control switch completely, I did not hook up any hoses to it at all, but I did not remove it since that would leave a big hole in the fan box.
Seems simple enough, video and your direction explains very detailed. However! I will be replacing my vacuum hoses with dash in place, big challenge I know. Good winter project. Any advise is greatly appreciated. Where can I get the plastic T's needed for hoses. My car is optioned with all except cruise.
Thanks, Ed
You can get vacuum fitting kits at the auto parts store, ya know, a plastic box with many different kinds and sizes. They carry some good ones. Only problem is they are usually white plastic. I have a pile of the original metal T's for the big 7/32 hoses. These T's are used only in the engine compartment. There are several straight brass fittings used in the door lock system too. Under the dash are a few T's that are 7/32 left and right and the odd one is 5/64. Those are plastic and part of the Air and heater system. Just be careful when you reinstall the heater box you don't pinch the vacuum hoses between the heater box and fan box. I've done that a few times. Thanks
Hello Nick,
I really enjoyed your explanation of this system. Thank you for producing such great videos. I own a 66 Landau without A/C that will need a heater core replacement. I am aware that the removal of my heater core will be quite different than what you have shown in this video. I have seen other videos that show the removal of a non A/C heater core without removing the dash. I am sure with your experience you have replaced the core, and wanted to get your opinion about this. (maybe a future video?)
Thank you,
George in Michigan
Hey George, thank you for the compliments. To be honest, in 35 plus years fixing Thunderbirds, I've only done one heater core on a 64-66 Thunderbird without air, I'm not kidding. So many of these cars have air that, for me anyway, it just never happened except for the one time. It seems odd that something like that would happen so rarely. So the only thing that I do remember about doing it is that it was much harder then the cars with air to get the heater box out since it is larger. But I could not tell you any particulars from memory and I do not have a car without air in my possession to which I could use for a video. It seems that I attract only those cars with air. If one comes along, Ill be sure to make a video. Thanks again, Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Hello Nick,
Thanks for your reply. I think you are right about most of these Thunderbirds having A/C. I am going to try to do this job without removing the entire dash, taking photos/video as I work on it. (so I remember how it goes back together)
Thanks again,
George
Hi Nick, My 65 is a factory air car. but it has had an engine change in the past and the new engine has NONE of the aircon parts on it. (I assume it was probably a truck 390 since it has a 2 bbl carb.) Classic Auto Air makes a kit for NON-air cars for about $1600 which includes everything but it is designed to work with the non A/C controls and the non A/C firewall. The other option would be to go original but I am not sure what all is missing or what all original style parts are available. Original Air sent me a quote with "the major" parts, but I'm concerned about finding, wiring and connecting all the "little things".
Hey Chuck, sounds like you have a big decision to make. Its hard and costly to restore an air system in a Thunderbird. The plenum under the dash must come out which means removing the dash board and center console. I have installed or repaired the factory air on many cars and when I do that I tell the customers that the dash must come out and with that out they need to address anything that is wrong with the car dash related and engine related since those are the two places where there is going to be major work. For example, if the dash is cracked, then it will be out and an opportune time to fix it. If the car has vacuum door locks, then that system will be fully exposed with the dash out so perfect time to restore that. Etc.
As far as the AC parts in the engine compartment, all you need to do is to look at an air car and see what they have related to what you have, its not hard. The pullies and fan are different and there are some AC brackets for the compressor and then the hoses from the plenum under the dash to the compressor and the condenser and fan shroud. All these parts are available. Birds Nest has all these parts.
If you install the Classic Auto Air after market system, what do you do about the plenum under the dash? You must remove the dash to remove the plenum and if you have to do that anyway, why not install original factory air? I cannot imagine that their system will work with the plenum in the way and if you don't restore the plenum, then no system will work.
Classic Auto Air can reproduce all the pressurized hoses, they can recondition the evaporator, they can sell you new service valves for the compressor and other misc parts too. The condenser is available new or have your old one reconditioned, the receiver dryer is available new, the expansion valve is available new, all the vacuum motors under the dash are available new, all the vacuum hoses under the dash are available new, etc. You can get everything for the original factory system. The only thing you cannot buy is a new plenum or someone to recondition it. I think you would have to do that yourself. The wiring and all dash related parts you already have so no worries there.
I hope this helped. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 thanks so much.
Nick, thanks very much for your channel and for sharing your significant knowledge and experience. I'm getting prepared to attack the vacuum system in my 66 Landau with AC. To start, I purchased some A/C Heater Control Units to play with / restore. One is from June 64 and the other April 65. What I've noticed on both, is that the temperature control valve within the control unit, bleeds slowly when I perform a vacuum leak test. Is this normal or are they defective? I haven't seen replacement parts being sold, unless I'm searching using the wrong terms.
Thank you very much Glenn. I think there should be no vacuum leaks in the valves. I don't think they make that valve anymore but I'm sure you can find a good used one. Try the Birds Nest. Good luck.
Hi Nick, just bought a 65 landau and found your videos. Thanks for all the info and help. Do you know why I would hear a vacuum leak under my drivers side dash but only when I put the shifter in gear ? It goes away when I put in park or neutral.
Thanks,
Roy
Hey Roy, thank you. The neutral safety switch controls the release of the emergency brake via vacuum. When the car is in park or neutral, the neutral safety switch blocks vacuum to the emergency brake pedal assembly so it will stay engaged. When you put the car in gear, the neutral safety switch sends vacuum to the emergency brake pedal assembly releasing it so you can proceed down the road. You are hearing the leak because either the neutral safety switch is faulty and leaking vacuum or the vacuum hose has fallen off. Easy fix, just look under the dash. The neutral safety switch is attached to the steering column. Good luck.
Do you have a video on removing the heater ac control panel
No, I do not have a video for that, sorry. Its not hard to remove, you need to remove the dash facing first, then 4 screws hold the control unit to the center console.
I have a 64 with air that has no heat in the cabin. If I apply vacuum to the water valve the heat works full time. I have no vacuum at the brown hose on the color wheel and still have the original thermostatic control switch in the loop. Is there a source under the dash to supply vacuum to the black wedge on the color wheel? Am I on the right track?
Amazing video , thanks!!
The small hose (Gates 27041) that leads from the vacuum cannister in the engine compartment, goes through the firewall and "T's" into a larger hose (Gates 27043), and that larger hose goes to the thermostatic control valve and to the temp control valve on the dash. This is the source for all the vacuum under the dash for heater and A/C (not emergency brake or rear vent, that is a separate source hose, as is the door locks). The smaller hose going through the firewall "T's" into this larger hose right above the heater box next to the thermostatic control valve when the thermostatic control valve is still hooked up. Then there is another T near where this larger hose goes into the temperature control valve on the dash, and that T sends another smaller hose to the black wedge on the pie disc, just like in my video. This is all assuming that you have the thermostatic control valve hooked up. If it is not hooked up like in my video, there is only one T near the temperature control valve and the small hose going through the firewall goes all the way down to that T near the temperature control valve the way it is in the video. The other side of the temperature control valve is a smaller hose (Gates 27041) and that goes to silver wedge on the pie disc.
Another way to explain it, you have a large hose going from the temp control valve on the dash to the thermostatic control valve by the fan. In that hose you have two "T's," one sending a smaller hose to the engine via the vacuum cannister near the battery, and another smaller hose to the black wedge on the pie disc. This is all assuming the thermostatic control valve is still hooked up. If you decide to bypass the thermostatic control valve , then eliminate the T by the thermostatic control valve, eliminate the larger hose mentioned above, and run the smaller source hose from the engine all the way to the black wedge on the pie disc and T off a short large hose to the temp control valve. Just like in my video. I hope that is not too confusing. Thanks for listening. Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I understand from the video how to bypass my faulty thermostatic control valve and supply vacuum to the variable control head and black triangle. The part that is not yet clear is how the vacuum signal gets back to the water valve. It seems a T is needed in the silver vacuum line and back to the valve.
Thanks for your patience and help!
Hey Rocketeer, the brown wedge on the pie disc, next to the silver wedge, supplies the heater valve. That is the vacuum hose that supplies the heater valve with vacuum. Run a vacuum hose from that brown wedge directly to the heater valve and that's it. I hope that helped, Nick
Hey Nick. Thanks for the videos. What is this vacuum regulator for? See picture. It’s in the 1965 ford shop Manual, section 16-10. I did find it in my 1965 a/c system. Don’t know how to check it except to blow through it. Any suggestions, can I eliminate this with no consequence to the a/c working like it should? You are the best mechanic I have found regarding these thirds. Thanks for your dedication to these great old cars. Jim
Hey Jim, the "vacuum regulator" that is shown on the vacuum diagram on page 16-10 is actually the temperature regulator valve, it is attached to the lever that adjusts the temperature minimum-maximum. I believe they named it incorrectly but I guess it is a vacuum regulator just the same.
OK thanks Nick.
Just so I’m clear, is that in place of the thermostatic control switch that’s above the heater box that you bypassed. Maybe in place of is not the right word but does it serve the same purpose, can I eliminate it.
ok. Thanks.
How does the temperature slider control work if you bypass the temperature regulator valve? Does it do anything? I don't really know how the slider works in the first place so bare with me on that one.
The temp control slider is a vacuum switch that applies more or less vacuum when the slider is moved. The thermostatic switch was to safeguard the fan box from excessive heat and would lower the heat or turn it off if the fan compartment got too hot. It would do that by lessening or increasing the vacuum to the heater valve. Even if the temperature slier control was just on or off, it would then turn the heater valve on or off. If you have too much heat blowing out the vents you could simply turn it off. The difference between the two is that the thermostatic control valve had a bimetalic strip that would lessen or close the vacuum off depending on the temp. The temp control slider is simply a manual left and right "more or less" switch with no bimetalic strip.
Do you have a video on removing power window motor on a 66. I have ground and power up and down but no movement. The motor looks new also
I have a video on repairing the motor, loading the regulator and operation once back into the door but I do not have one showing removal or installation. Are you talking about door window motors? Try removing the door panel and while someone is pushing the switch, hit the motor with a hammer and see if that jars it loose. However, you first must determine that power is in fact reaching the motor. If power is reaching the motor, you will get a dimming of the dome lights as you push the window switch. If you get no dimming of the dome lights, then either power is not getting to the motor or the motor has an internal problem like its rusty or something. You can also try applying power to the motor directly once the door panel is off. This will give it extra power to move. Its not uncommon for window motors to become stuck once all the way up or down. This happens on my own 66 so I just don't roll them all the way up or down. Ill get to it some day.
Can you show me where they leave the vacuum canister and go after that
go to my TH-cam video 1964-66 vacuum system diagrams and it shows you all the diagrams for the vacuum system, except for the door locks.
great job Nick! Will there be a vid on electric seats 64-66
Thats funny because I thought about that yesterday. Ill do one eventually. I have to do the one for this car Im working on so when that happens, Ill make a video. Thanks.
Hi Nick. I have 2 questions I hope you can help me with #1 I keep seeing a "vacuum check valve" offered for the 1966 Thunderbird possibly only for AC equipped cars. I've seen it mentioned on a vacuum layout diagram and position right after the vacuum source point on the engine, before the lines are connected to anything else. Can you verify whether one is actually needed. I see one on Birds Nest and it has 3 ports which is also a bit confusing. #2 I see in this video that you have the second tip capped off on the brass fitting that comes out of the intake where the vacuum is supplied. What is that second fitting for? Thanks in advance!
Hey Lance, a vacuum check valve is always used on vacuum systems. They are a one way valve to prevent air from being forced into the vacuum system when the engine back fires or something like that. It protects the vacuum system since it must be under vacuum, not pressure. If the car were to back fire, then it could blow out all the vacuum motors. So the check valve allows the engine to suck out all the air, create vacuum, but it does not let air back into the vacuum system. So its important to install the check valve properly too obviously. The extra port on the brass fitting is for the vacuum door lock system. This car does not have that so that fitting is capped off. I hope that has helped. Thanks.
Love the videos!!! Gives my son and I the confidence to do these repairs. I can't tell you how incredibly valuable your videos are, THANK YOU!!!! We have a 1966 Thunderbird and are having same trouble as "Auto Anatomy", our AC/Heater Control unit vacuum control head distribution head thing is leaking. There is some rubber or plastic disc in the round head that has disintegrated or dried out. Have not been able to find the part anywhere or anyplace that would refurbish/rebuild the vacuum control head colored pizza pie disc vacuum distribution head thing. Do you know where I could get the parts or send in my part for rebuild? Thanks again for making repairs easy to understand, even with the shop manual, without you we would be lost!!!!
Thank you very much Jeff, I greatly appreciate that. Ill keep them coming as long as I am still above ground.
Nick, did you say you made a video of refurbishment of the pie controller? Thanks, Bill in Oklahoma
Hey Bill, I will make one but Im not sure when. Thanks, Nick
Hey Bill, I made the video of the pie controller, its on my channel now. Thanks, Nick
On the 65' model vacuum controlled on/off switch for the ac, what is the little copper tube/wire looking thing for that comes off the switch frame? The one I have is only about 1" long and all the pics I have seen it is really long, but I can't find where it goes and what it is for. Do I need it etc...? Thanks
Hey Justin, I just saw your comment so please forgive me for not responding sooner. The switch you mean is under the dash and controlled by the yellow vacuum hose right? That tube is a capillary tube and it goes into the evaporator and senses temperature. If the evaporator gets too cold, the capillary tube senses this and shuts the AC off. Yes, the tube should be very long, maybe between 1 foot and 1 1/2 foot long? Something like that. It is pushed into the evaporator in the center. If you open the front AC vent, somewhere near the center of the evaporator, you should see an area where the fins are pushed away slightly to allow the tube to enter the evaporator. Good luck.
You didn't say where the brown hose connects inside the car.
Hey Ben, if you mean the brown color coded vacuum hose, it connects to the pie disc, the control unit. There is a brown color coded fitting on the disc, it goes there.
Kind of random, but do you have a go to place to get vacuum actuators for the hvac system? I need at least one at the moment
Hey Scott. They used to be available from Ford but I don't think they are anymore. Birds Nest has them in reproduction. Give them a call. Good luck.
Hey Nick, I got all the lines ran and replaced, but when I turn on the fan I get no air. The fan is working, so I was going to replace the blower motor. Does it come out from the inside or the engine bay?
Hey Branson, the fan and blower motor come out through the engine compartment side. I'm confused, you said the fan is working but your going to replace the blower motor. The blower motor runs the fan so if the fan is working, then the blower motor must be okay. I don't get it.
I have a 63 factory T-bird and my HVAC system is not working. I plan to start tearing it apart, a little scared I will admit. Are you in California by chance?
Hey kw, no I am in Colorado. However, my videos about the vacuum systems are almost identical to those used in the 1961-63 Thunderbirds. The only difference is that the 1961-63 use cables for the defroster and AC clutch switch. But otherwise the vacuum system is exactly the same, the plenum is almost identical and the routing of all hoses is exactly the same. It is not hard to do this, just time consuming. Take photos of everything, every hose, every nut and bolt, the positions of everything. Then you will have something to reference later when reassembling. Thats how I learned. Good luck.
Not sure you if mentioned where the marked white vacuum hose connects too ?
The white color coded vacuum hose goes to the recirculating door that is in the fan compartment. The recirculating door closes off the heater core and allows air to recirculate when the air conditioning is on.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 ahhhhhh ok gotcha thanks alot Nick. I started buckling down and replacing the hoses today and I decided to borrow your color coded zip tie idea 👌👊💪 You have a goodevening brother, I cant thank you enough!
@@Tachdout No problem, good luck.
Nick, at 3:08 you mention removing the 2 air supply screws. I’m having trouble removing this air supply so I can get to the heater core for replacement. What am I missing? 1966 with air. Thanks,
Mike
Hey Mike, that "air horn" (for lack of a better name) is attached to the evaporator box with one hex screw on the bottom and it is hooked to the evaporator box at the top. Once you undo the hex screw at the bottom, you can lift up on the air horn and pull it off the hook. Scrape some of the tar off and you will see what I am talking about. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 thanks again Nick. I’ll be back at it tomorrow.
Thank you, thank you again. That 5/16 hex screw would have been impossible to find without scraping off the tar. It was on the bottom behind a cluster of wires. You the man!
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Got it. The hex screw was covered in black coating. Thanks again
I am wondering do you know why my 1965 thunderbird with P R N ° ● L does not shift in to 3rd I know green dot is drive. I tried gasing it then letting go to see if it shifts I'm at a loss thanks .
Hi, when the cruisomatic transmission goes bad, it stops shifting into 3rd and reverse, usually until it fully warms up. So when you first start it in the morning when it is cold, it wont go into reverse or 3rd. Once warm, it starts to shift properly. Ultimately it will stop shifting completely. Its also possible the modulator is either disconnected or defective. When the seals in the trans get old they get hard and stop sealing when cold. Once warm, they soften up and start to seal and then the trans starts to shift properly. There are two solutions to this problem, one is temporary. The temporary solution is to put a conditioner in the trans, a seal softener conditioner that will soften the seals. This usually works for a time. Ultimately this conditioner will eat away at the seals and ruin them in the long run but this takes time. The permanent solution is to rebuild the trans. Good luck.
Hey Nick! I ended up running a new source hose into the car to bypass the thermostatic control valve. When I get it to the back of the pie wheel, it is going to T off into the temperature control valve. Do I also need to attach the source to the rear vent switch off of this source hose at the pie wheel? Or is there a separate source hose for the rear vents? Also, how can I connect the 5/64" hose into the 7/32" hose?
There is only one source hose and everything T's off that so the rear vents also T off the same source hose. You will need to use an adaptor fitting to connect two different size hoses.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I see in the engine bay on the passenger side firewall at the very bottom a vacuum line goes in there. Is this for the rear vent and door locks? Should I T it off in the engine bay or under the dash?
@@bransonmckee745 Yes, that vacuum line is for the emergency brake, neutral safety switch, and rear vent. Sorry, I forgot about that line. Technically it is a second source line but not for the air condition or heater, just the ebrake, NS switch, and rear vent. If you had vacuum door locks you would have a third source line going through the firewall directly to the door lock junction block under the dash on the passenger side. Again, my diagrams show all this. Have you not seen those?
Hi, ok you might get ‘upset’ at this question but I have to ask: is there a way (kluge) to put in a manual method (post, pusher rod etc) to open and close the heater door? I really don’t want to trouble shoot the whole vacuum system taking the whole dash apart (I will make a mess of it and the Wife will yell at me, again…). Thanks Mike in NH with. 65 HT. And I don’t use the AC…
Hey Mik, I think both the wife and I have to yell at you for that one. I have never made any such modification so I do not have any kind of procedure or idea on how to do that. It seems to me that your effort to modify it might equal the effort to fix it right?? That has always been my feeling on mods. I cant help you on that one, sorry. However, fixing the vacuum system is not hard and you do not have to pull the dash. Removing all the access panels, radio and speaker will give you access to all the vacuum hoses and vacuum motors. The hardest one to get at is the defroster. The one your speaking of that controls the heater door can only be replaced by removing the heater box which I think is also not hard. These repairs are just time consuming and I guess intimidating when you have never done it before. For example, only 8 nuts hold the heater box to the car, 4 on the firewall and 4 in the fan compartment, all of which are very easy to get at. It then comes back a inch or so, then down and out. It goes in in reverse order. Its not hard. Once you have the heater box out, you will have full access to all vacuum hoses. When I first did it, I removed one hose at a time and then it was done. The vacuum motors just unscrew and screw back in. Yes, you must be a contortionist to get at some of them so remove the front seats for extra room to lay down on the floor. It not hard but it is time consuming. And you will have to spend a few bucks on hoses and vacuum motors. Once its fixed you will be very happy and then your wife will stop yelling at you. Happy days.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 hi, I did a 'work around' that appears to work. My mechanic did as I requested to find a 'low cost' way of getting the heat on. The easiest (least expensive') way is to (and I wish I could post a picture here) is to connect a vacuum hose under the hood on the passenger side of the engine area to the hose that engages the 'heater door' (which was permanently closed). When this is done, the heat is 'on'- yet minimally when the fan is off and not in the 1-2-3 position. The side window helps diffuse the heat when the outside temperature is a bit warmer during the day. Here in N.H., it is in the 60's pretty much now and I plan to drive this 1965 Beast in the winter when there is no ice/snow on the roads. Else, we would have had to taken apart the front dash to find the problem since initial disassembly did not show us the problem and further dissection would have been needed.... Not the best solution- but maybe when I have more $$ I can dive further into this. thanks,
Okay, a few things you should know. When the heater door is "open," it closes off the heater core, blocks the heater core, and lets air recirculate within the car, it is taking air from inside the car and sending it through the evaporator for the AC and not taking air through the heater core. When the heater door is "closed," it is closing off any air from inside the car and letting air from outside the car come into the car, pass through the heater core and then into the fan compartment. The heater door is "closed" normally when there is no vacuum applied to the vacuum motor controlling it. This means that when you look under the dash at the heater box, you see the heater door behind directly behind the screen, you cannot see the fan unless you push the door away from the screen. this is the normal position for the heater door when no vacuum is applied. This is the correct position for the heater door to allow the heater to work. When the heater door is closed, it allows air to pass through the heater core, into the fan compartment and then out the heater ducts and/or defroster in case of a failure of the vacuum system so these systems still work. So you do not need to apply any vacuum to the heater door to make it work for the heater. If you take a vacuum hose from the engine and go directly to the heater valve in the engine compartment, this will turn on the flow of hot water through the heater core so you will get heat in the car. If electricity is hooked up to the fan, you can use the fan normally to control the flow of heat. You wont be able to control the temperature but you can control the flow of heat with the fan. If you remove the vacuum hose from the heater valve, then you will have no heat unless the valve is defective and stuck open. Your description of your mechanic applying vacuum to the heater door to allow the heater to work is incorrect unless there is something seriously wrong with your system. The heater door is normally closed and would allow the heater to work even if the vacuum system is removed from the car. I hope this info has helped. l
what does the thermostatic control switch do and does it effect the system being bypassed ?
You are talking about the thermostatic control valve in the fan compartment for the heater valve right? Not the thermostatic control switch for the air conditioning clutch. The thermostatic control valve for the heater protects the system from overheating from heat from the heater core. It is a vacuum valve that is temperature controlled to shut off when the bimetallic spring overheats shutting off vacuum to the heater valve. Since there is no replacement or repair for the thermostatic control valve what else can you do? I have found no other resolve other then to bypass it completely. Otherwise, the system works exactly like before it was bypassed. Thanks.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 thank you im trying to hook my vacuum lines up in engine compartment and everything was just such a mess so ill probably have to pull out dash and check what was done in there for ac as well.
@@lurkerine If your just rebuilding the vacuum system, you do not need to pull the dash. You do however need to pull the heater box and all dash access panels for access under the dash including the panel where the clock is. Obviously there is less access room when the dash is out but ultimately it is less work. Good luck.
Have you done one on removing the dash
No. However, Im just about to install the dash on this car Im working on. Ill see if I can put one together on installation. Going in reverse will instruct you on how to take apart. Thanks, Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks that would be great.. Watching you has made me step up my game on my 65.
What size are the color-coded hoses? 7/64?
5/64, 5/32, 7/32. Go to this video and you will see all. th-cam.com/video/dYd7LWQf2ao/w-d-xo.html
Im kind of lost this system is a nightmare lol, anyway I have a 65 so the canister on the fire wall the big hose goes to what goes to the small port on that canister? Also the lack hose that goes to the pie what is the configuration of the bigger and smaller ones?
th-cam.com/video/dYd7LWQf2ao/w-d-xo.html Hey snkeyes, here is a link to a video where I show the vacuum system diagrams and the sizes of hoses and everything, you cant go wrong with these. I know the systems are intimidating at first but they really are not that hard. Study the diagrams, you can figure it out, its not hard. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 The Only 1 I am having a hard time with is the source hose where in the video you have it set the way you do for testing, so what is the correct way for hooking up the black hose? Is it just a offset T?
Also did you run a vacuum hose to the rear vents? if so what color?
@@snkeyes-ri2hd In the stock configuration the small 7/64 black source hose that goes to the pie disc control on the dash comes from the largest hose coming off the thermostatic switch under the dash in the fan compartment. The large 7/32 hose goes from the thermostatic switch to the temperature control switch next to the pie disc on the control on the dash. The small 7/64 black source hose that goes to the pie disc T's off this large 7/32 hose somewhere near the control unit on the dash. Just pick a spot near it, maybe a few inches away. My diagram shows this. I hope that helped.
Also, this is complicated because I bypassed the thermostatic control switch in the fan compartment so I have the source hose hooked up differently and I used a smaller hose for it. I hooked it up this way for testing because I bypassed the thermostatic switch so I had it hooked up funky. I ended up keeping it this way in the finished product. I guess your having trouble reading my diagram. The shop manual also has a full diagram of the vacuum hoses. In a nut shell, I ran a 7/64 small hose from the engine compartment and ran it all the way to the control on the dash and T'ed off that to go to the black wedge on the pie disc and to the temperature switch. You can clearly see this at 7:30 in my video where I even name the hose and you can see where I T it off to the black wedge and to the temperature switch. This source hose comes directly from the engine compartment where it is T'ed off the large hose connected to the brass fitting on the intake manifold. But remember, this is because I bypassed the thermostatic control switch. Good luck.
So I have that canister for the door locks, are the hoses running to the doors?
Yes, there is a junction block behind the dash on the passenger side and two hoses go from that junction block to each door. The hose from the canister goes to the junction block.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 the junction block is the brass blocking top of the intake manifold?
@@Tachdout NO, the junction block for the vacuum door locks is behind the dash, not on the intake manifold. The brass block on the intake manifold is the source for the vacuum.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 yes the source junction block was the one I was referring too I’m just trying to make sure I make art out of this shit storm of hoses that were never connected and just hanging around lol I’ll locate the junction box under the dash today after work , Thank you Nick
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 I did some research and found the junction block passenger side I was always looking at it and wondering what it was and the function, now I know👍 Thank you for pointing me in the right direction Nick ! Have a good day brother✊
Nick, do you have a preferred part number or source for the vacuum actuators?
Thanks
Hey Bill, the part number is Motorcraft YH161. You can get them from Bird Nest or any of the Thunderbird dealers. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Thanks Nick. Perfect. Now for the nylon looking button sliders on the swing away steering column. Do you know where to source those. With one completely sheared off amid gummed up old grease, the swing away binds. Thanks Nick, your knowledge is unsurpassed.
Cheers. Bill
They are not available new. Ill check to see if I have one. Ill get back to you in a day or so. Thanks.
Thank you Nick. The broken one snaps in, the ones with the Allen screw adjuster are good.
Another question, the little "valve" for the min-max is leaking a small amount of smoke while looking for leaks. Is this rebuild able? According to the smoke test this appears to be my last leak. Thanks
Hey Justin, I have never heard or seen one that has been rebuilt. Actually, I've never seen a bad one. I think you can only get used ones. Try the Birds Nest, they should have some good used ones. Good luck.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 ok thank you.
Never I d, I think I figured it out. It’s not supposed to hold vacuum but rather adjust the amount of vacuum. Right?
@@justinlogue31 Right.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 Change of subject, do you know of a re-manufactured or something that will at least work for the defrost duct? All the original ones I have found just crumble when you touch them. I have to figure something out for the drivers side.
Hi Nick, thank you for the video! Does the thermostatic control valve shut off the water flow to the heater core? If so, is it plumbed between the water inlet and the heater core? I have a 63 and there is no water flow through the heater core. I tried to blow through the hoses from the engine side and it seems to be blocked. I'm wondering if the thermostatic control valve is the problem but I didn't see any pictures of how it connects to the heater core. Thank you,
Hi, sorry for the late reply, I somehow missed your comment. The thermostatic control valve shuts off vacuum to the heater system therefore shutting off the heater valve and stopping flow. There is no water connection to the heater core or engine, it is purely vacuum.
i just removed all this mess of shit of my 61 and tossed it in the dumpster
I didn't reply sooner because I didn't know what to say to that. I can't believe that you just threw it all away and now there is nothing under the dash. That just devalued the car if anything. You didn't expect all this stuff to stay new after 50 plus years?? Hopefully you just said that out of frustration and you didn't really throw it away. That would be a shame.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 yessir ive worked on over 20k vehicles in my 33 yrs. when junk is junk, toss it. i keep reading about some cars not coming with heaters back in the day. that it was a option? that is crazy! i am looking for the delete plate that goes in place of the old blower motor.
@@icantintyou Yeah, maybe in the 30's it was an option, not in a Thunderbird. Thunderbird is about sporty luxury, not luxury while your freezing to death. Anyway, its your car so I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.
@@vintagethunderbirdrepair9426 yea, i plan on replacing it with a new vintage air kit. its by no means a valuable car. i never overbuild for the neighborhood. someone neglected this old car and im in the process of getting it going again, ive got some pics of t birds with no heaters from the factory. no air car as well. your work is very informative and i see you take great pride in it. i love your videos.
@@icantintyou Thank you very much. Good luck on your projects.