@@celestialspark5697 agreed damage taken would prob have to be additive tho, just give people a valid reason to slap bell on from the get go and never take it off
Discordant Bell rework idea: similar to Evil Eye its effect should persist between runs, the bonus damage you can deal stacking up to +200% (effectively infinite crits) but the damage recived stacks indefinitely even beyond that. Stacked buff and debuff are cleared on death or on use of a different trinket Not only does this make Bell more interesting, but it opens up a new way to play with Bell streaking, where players try to get as many consecutive runs with Bell equipped as possible before the damage debuff inevitably becomes so high that death is almost certain It also fits better with Eris's "blessing" since that mechanic also ramps indefinitely with no cap until you die
They should just go all in with the glass cannon play style on the bell. Make it something crazy like +200% damage dealt and taken by the time you get to Chronos, and make the bonus multiplicative. I used to love doing glass cannon runs runs with the pre-nerf white antler and I think the bell should just become it's successor.
it's funny how something like hammer or egg can give you as much as double the value of the bell immediately without the downside and leave room for three more keepsakes over the course of the run. I think they should just massively amp the percentage of the bell to something like 3 or 4 percent. Not to make it good but just so it had an actual impact.
That was some insane Erebus RNG right there. It was like 5 room skips in a row and you got Zeus + Hera and Wicked. Only thing that could have gone better was getting Heph Mint/Trusty too. You got Nem in Oceanus too. Great run!
I would like to see the Bell reworked so that every encounter it gave you a new random boon and a new random permanent Chaos Curse, never replacing either. It would be utter madness and that fits perfectly with Eris' personality. For Trivia: The reason why Aphrodite hits like a truck in both games is that the Greeks, especially Greek philosophers, feared her curses more than any other one God's. The Greeks believed that love was a form of madness/affliction brought on by Aphrodite, reasoning that while Zeus or Poseidon could kill you and your loved ones with thunder bolts and tidal waves, Aphrodite could ruin your entire life in this existence and the next by cursing you to love the wrong person or vice versa--great examples being Medea, Jason and Ariadne. She also is responsible for the curse of self-obsession on Narcissus that killed him and still afflicts him even now in the afterlife because he was too prideful to take a suitor, and cursed Herakles with a burning cloak of poison that resulted in his mortal death because he seduced one of her mortal lovers. "Love hurts", as Zag notes when he picks up her boons. The gameplay also emphasizes that despite being one of the scariest gods to piss off Aphro is not one of the most powerful. She'd usually make one strategic curse or blessing that would change the course of your entire life, but didn't have the power to shape the world beyond those single changes to mortals or gods themselves. As a result, a lot of her follow-up boons are quite bad ('shallow attraction'), especially in the first game, which also helps balance out her incredibly strong early boons. In the second game she's quite a lot more buffed up, which I believe is an allusion to her aiding Mel on a quest of familial love and becoming more fond of the Hades family in general after Zag's three healthy and fulfilling romances (even if Dusa's ended platonically) and Persephone and Hades' deep and abiding love for each other. I can't be sure, though--maybe they just felt she was too underpowered in the first game.
Idk I kinda like that the bell is bad, it really fits with the whole "Eris screwing you over" theme. Having an upside that's equal to the downside is honestly generous for her. Or the devs could lean into it even further and have it be an active handicap with absolutely no upside, that could also be fun
@@MonitorVonSynthesizer if you look at the dmg charts he got over 173K dmg with basic attack, no origination, no strength... lethal snare probably carried but that's still insane
Im realising there is little to no difference at high fear between bell and lions fang, the % increase is basically the same without damage taken downside 😂
I really hope the bell gets a rework cuz as of now it's just so not worth it. It's a cool mechanic but it gives too little for too much downside. Just adjust the benefit to outpace the detriment or maybe make the detriment something other than damage. Like maybe the enemies become more aggresive or they gain extra health equal to the percent. Or maybe they get benefits like from the benefits package in hades 1.
Right now, bell really is functionally just a way worse antler. Getting it to offer nearly as much value takes too long, not to mention it locks you out of god keepsakes which is just an awful time. The damage bonus def needs to be cranked way up to make it worth
as it is rn, the bell is just never worth it, imo, receiving more damage isn't the only downside it has, giving up on 2~3 other useful keepsakes in order to get a meaningful damage boost from it means it's always disadvantageous to use it. without reworking it, it'll only be worth it if the ramp up becomes rly big and I still doubt it'd be better than just choosing something like antler/lion's fang/embryo/hammer/fleece/metallic droplet on the final biomes, or even evil eye just to use it against chronos (this last one should be changed somehow, too, ngl). it's very funny that white antler does a better job than discordant bell at giving the player a high dmg boost with a big downside attached to it. a silly rework could be to just make it a super rng item, like, for example, roll an integer every time you enter a chamber that sets it to a value between, say, -50% or +100% dmg to both dmg dealt and taken, showing said value on the keepsake itself at the bottom of the screen, that'd spice things up a lot when you use it. does it fit Eris? probably not, but unti it receives some big changes, I don't think it's ever worth using it when other stuff simply provide similar if not better boosts with less or no downside at al
What do you think is the easiest build and vows to beat 32 fear for the first time on surface and underworld? I'm trying to get the 3rd trophy and having trouble
I feel some some keepsakes are just gonna suck. A lot of keepsakes in Hades 1 sucked too. Not all keepsakes need to be "good" but perhaps they should be slightly more use able
@celestialspark5697 Evil eye isn't that bad tbh. If you die on Chronos, then just equip it in Tartarus so you get bonus damage against him in the next run. It has a decent enough function and unlike Bell, it doesn't increase damage dealt to Mel.
@celestialspark5697 It's not garbage design at all. It has a very CLEAR design. It works as intended. You just dislike that it has a very limited design. That doesn't make it bad at all. It just makes it too limited for you. And that's fine. Bell by contrast has a shit design. It deals extra damage to you and nobody wants that. Only people doing a fun run like this would ever use it. Because it HURTS you by design.
@@l.n.3372bell isn’t bad design because it has a downside, it’s bad design because the benefit gained is far outweighed by the downside. Antler is functionally the same as bell but it’s not badly designed. It makes you deal a crap ton of damage but you’re basically always like two hits away from death. It high risk- high reward whereas bell is high risk - low reward
@aperson6562 Bell increases your damage dealt by room but also the same you take. Wasn't the Achilles keepsake in game 1 exactly the same tho? Yet nobody whines about that. If I remember correctly it was: Deal more damage from backstab yet take more damage from backstab too. Just like bell in this game, the amount you deal is equal to the amount you take. So by final room you might deal 30% extra yet take 30% extra too.
If they changed the ratio of bell to 3% gained 1.5% taken and made it a multiplicative damage increase bell runs would go crazy
Yes please anything to make it fun I’m down
@@celestialspark5697 agreed damage taken would prob have to be additive tho, just give people a valid reason to slap bell on from the get go and never take it off
Discordant Bell rework idea: similar to Evil Eye its effect should persist between runs, the bonus damage you can deal stacking up to +200% (effectively infinite crits) but the damage recived stacks indefinitely even beyond that. Stacked buff and debuff are cleared on death or on use of a different trinket
Not only does this make Bell more interesting, but it opens up a new way to play with Bell streaking, where players try to get as many consecutive runs with Bell equipped as possible before the damage debuff inevitably becomes so high that death is almost certain
It also fits better with Eris's "blessing" since that mechanic also ramps indefinitely with no cap until you die
thatd be fun!
wtf supergiant hire this man!!! That's how it should of been
They should just go all in with the glass cannon play style on the bell. Make it something crazy like +200% damage dealt and taken by the time you get to Chronos, and make the bonus multiplicative.
I used to love doing glass cannon runs runs with the pre-nerf white antler and I think the bell should just become it's successor.
I agree
it's funny how something like hammer or egg can give you as much as double the value of the bell immediately without the downside and leave room for three more keepsakes over the course of the run. I think they should just massively amp the percentage of the bell to something like 3 or 4 percent. Not to make it good but just so it had an actual impact.
Yeah I’m down with anything to make it fun
10:13 that visual bug was funny
That was some insane Erebus RNG right there. It was like 5 room skips in a row and you got Zeus + Hera and Wicked. Only thing that could have gone better was getting Heph Mint/Trusty too. You got Nem in Oceanus too. Great run!
I would like to see the Bell reworked so that every encounter it gave you a new random boon and a new random permanent Chaos Curse, never replacing either. It would be utter madness and that fits perfectly with Eris' personality.
For Trivia: The reason why Aphrodite hits like a truck in both games is that the Greeks, especially Greek philosophers, feared her curses more than any other one God's. The Greeks believed that love was a form of madness/affliction brought on by Aphrodite, reasoning that while Zeus or Poseidon could kill you and your loved ones with thunder bolts and tidal waves, Aphrodite could ruin your entire life in this existence and the next by cursing you to love the wrong person or vice versa--great examples being Medea, Jason and Ariadne. She also is responsible for the curse of self-obsession on Narcissus that killed him and still afflicts him even now in the afterlife because he was too prideful to take a suitor, and cursed Herakles with a burning cloak of poison that resulted in his mortal death because he seduced one of her mortal lovers. "Love hurts", as Zag notes when he picks up her boons. The gameplay also emphasizes that despite being one of the scariest gods to piss off Aphro is not one of the most powerful. She'd usually make one strategic curse or blessing that would change the course of your entire life, but didn't have the power to shape the world beyond those single changes to mortals or gods themselves. As a result, a lot of her follow-up boons are quite bad ('shallow attraction'), especially in the first game, which also helps balance out her incredibly strong early boons. In the second game she's quite a lot more buffed up, which I believe is an allusion to her aiding Mel on a quest of familial love and becoming more fond of the Hades family in general after Zag's three healthy and fulfilling romances (even if Dusa's ended platonically) and Persephone and Hades' deep and abiding love for each other. I can't be sure, though--maybe they just felt she was too underpowered in the first game.
That would be cool, or just make that a new keepsake entirely sounds fun! Thanks as always T-Tar
Idk I kinda like that the bell is bad, it really fits with the whole "Eris screwing you over" theme. Having an upside that's equal to the downside is honestly generous for her. Or the devs could lean into it even further and have it be an active handicap with absolutely no upside, that could also be fun
its not even that bad its just a big nothing burger, im down to make it an even bigger handicap that would be more fun
Tbf 0-32 Fear is like, 98% of what players play. Things always fall apart at super high difficulties.
This just goes to show that all you need is wicked rapid static and you can clear the game.
Sure 👍
@@Boat3d now there's just the skill issue that I have between me and 50 clear, kekw.
@@MonitorVonSynthesizer if you look at the dmg charts he got over 173K dmg with basic attack, no origination, no strength... lethal snare probably carried but that's still insane
Im realising there is little to no difference at high fear between bell and lions fang, the % increase is basically the same without damage taken downside 😂
I really hope the bell gets a rework cuz as of now it's just so not worth it. It's a cool mechanic but it gives too little for too much downside. Just adjust the benefit to outpace the detriment or maybe make the detriment something other than damage. Like maybe the enemies become more aggresive or they gain extra health equal to the percent. Or maybe they get benefits like from the benefits package in hades 1.
I think a good change is you do 2% more damage per encounter but move that much slower. Especially since you can still go fast with the dash/sprint.
Yeah I just want more interesting keepsakes overall
A keepsake that makes you slower for some sort of positive benefit sounds really funny even if its a completely new one
Goated
Thank you my friend!!!
Would actually have been to easy with heph and pin. You are the goat!
Thank you 🤠 it’s fun not having that stuff to rely on
Right now, bell really is functionally just a way worse antler. Getting it to offer nearly as much value takes too long, not to mention it locks you out of god keepsakes which is just an awful time. The damage bonus def needs to be cranked way up to make it worth
bell 🔛🔝
Bell on bottom
@@Boat3d ignorance is bliss
as it is rn, the bell is just never worth it, imo, receiving more damage isn't the only downside it has, giving up on 2~3 other useful keepsakes in order to get a meaningful damage boost from it means it's always disadvantageous to use it. without reworking it, it'll only be worth it if the ramp up becomes rly big and I still doubt it'd be better than just choosing something like antler/lion's fang/embryo/hammer/fleece/metallic droplet on the final biomes, or even evil eye just to use it against chronos (this last one should be changed somehow, too, ngl). it's very funny that white antler does a better job than discordant bell at giving the player a high dmg boost with a big downside attached to it.
a silly rework could be to just make it a super rng item, like, for example, roll an integer every time you enter a chamber that sets it to a value between, say, -50% or +100% dmg to both dmg dealt and taken, showing said value on the keepsake itself at the bottom of the screen, that'd spice things up a lot when you use it. does it fit Eris? probably not, but unti it receives some big changes, I don't think it's ever worth using it when other stuff simply provide similar if not better boosts with less or no downside at al
Agreed
What do you think is the easiest build and vows to beat 32 fear for the first time on surface and underworld? I'm trying to get the 3rd trophy and having trouble
I have a vow and arcana guide and a series of 32 fear best builds on the channel brother
If you had to do a build with only one effect (scorch, lightning, etc) what would be the best to beat 32 fear?
what do you consider an effect
@@Boat3d like scorch, hitch and so on
Probably scorch it’s very strong
holy goated
Holy plimbo scrimbly
Boated this is insanity, leave some achievements for 1.0 for zeus’ sake
No they’re all mine 😡
How do you immediately distinguish the artemis rooms?
Timer stops
Timer stops and the enemies pop in weirdly
I feel some some keepsakes are just gonna suck. A lot of keepsakes in Hades 1 sucked too. Not all keepsakes need to be "good" but perhaps they should be slightly more use able
Sure sure
@celestialspark5697
Evil eye isn't that bad tbh. If you die on Chronos, then just equip it in Tartarus so you get bonus damage against him in the next run. It has a decent enough function and unlike Bell, it doesn't increase damage dealt to Mel.
@celestialspark5697
It's not garbage design at all. It has a very CLEAR design. It works as intended.
You just dislike that it has a very limited design. That doesn't make it bad at all. It just makes it too limited for you. And that's fine.
Bell by contrast has a shit design. It deals extra damage to you and nobody wants that. Only people doing a fun run like this would ever use it. Because it HURTS you by design.
@@l.n.3372bell isn’t bad design because it has a downside, it’s bad design because the benefit gained is far outweighed by the downside. Antler is functionally the same as bell but it’s not badly designed. It makes you deal a crap ton of damage but you’re basically always like two hits away from death. It high risk- high reward whereas bell is high risk - low reward
@aperson6562
Bell increases your damage dealt by room but also the same you take.
Wasn't the Achilles keepsake in game 1 exactly the same tho? Yet nobody whines about that. If I remember correctly it was:
Deal more damage from backstab yet take more damage from backstab too.
Just like bell in this game, the amount you deal is equal to the amount you take. So by final room you might deal 30% extra yet take 30% extra too.
wait im boated 🤔
No