I feel art can be separate from the artist but it's is important to make sure you understand why the art is racist so that you don't internalized the message of the author while reading there work.
The answer is: Yes! Author should always be separated from their works. Of course authors always/most cases uses their own expeciences, world view and values in their works in some ways or another to create their characters and the world they live in and the laws the characters follow but that does not mean characters are always the same as the author who writes them. The characters and everything else are always a mix of different people and situations and we writers just use them with our best abilities to create something new and to heal ourselves/others, learn new things/new world views and make the world better place. Live that kind of life everyday which allows you to sleep your nights peacefully. I don't know if I even answered the question 😅
Brilliant take, I personally didn't look at it from that perspective in the video, being the author using their own experiences. It's a level of understanding most people are blind to and if I make another video I am much more likely to take into account. Cheers
Brilliant video, and a topic worth discussing. Personally, I don't separate artists from their art. Three main reasons: (a) I generally don't see the need. I feel like this discussion commonly comes from a place of guilt or discomfort, where we are trying to justify enjoying or appreciating a work by someone who we find abhorrent. But I personally feel okay that I can find an artist horrible and enjoy their work without separating the two. Hell, I can find there to be problematic elements _in that work_ and still enjoy that work. (b) I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone not to want to line the pockets of an author who uses their platform and wealth to do things they disapprove of. Frankly, I think that's a basic consumer right. I've never "boycotted" an artist myself iirc, but I'd *never* say someone else shouldn't. (c) Sometimes it does the work itself a disservice. Would Lovecraft have written what he did if he wasn't a racist bigot? Probably not. I'm not convinced we can learn as much from the art we experience if we don't take into account the people behind it. I mean, if you aren't putting some part of yourself into what you're producing, is it really art at all? I'm not going to separate Lovecraft's views from his books any more than I'd separate Nina Simone's values from her music when she's singing I Wish I Knew How It Would Feel To Be Free. But while I disagree with your overall stance on separating art from the artist, I think it's interesting how much of what you have said I do agree with. And you're right in that there is a lot of nuance here. 😄
Yes, the death of the author is a thing, I tend to separate art from artist. However, sometimes knowledge of the author's views etc can help us interpret themes within the text and aid us in recognising potentially problematic elements within a story.
The long and short of it (to me) is that while an author is still alive and/or is still a bigot (racist, homophobic, sexist, transphobic; whatever it may be), Then supporting them by purchasing their product isn't helping the situation. But the dudes like HP Lovecraft? He's dead as fuck and isn't benefitting from our money these days, so go ahead, buy every lovecraft book you want-- who can blame you? Its revolutionary horror
Most times the Autor is nit populär engough for the outside do know what the Autors personal vews are. Do you know what believes and values john gwynne, grady handrix, Jude Watson, dan brown have? I do not. So there is most times no conection between the art and the Artist beyound thd art itself. You love art and 10 years later you gain knowlage about some bad thinking hapits of an Autor, it can sour your anjoymand and that is a personal thing everyone has do come do terms withthemselfs. There is no universal answer everyone has do folow, and it should not.
Agreed with everything here - loved the support for libraries, another really good one would be used bookstores (assuming those still exist), the artist doesn't make money from books sold there (as far as I know) and you get to support a small business at the same time.
Bookstores are dying in this hemisphere, south, though I hope they're doing much better in the U.S. and other parts. Really do. We used to have a local bookstore and I was there every week buying a new book to read, but they closed during the pandemic. Sadge :(
@@AGWrites They're dying up here too sadly, North - although there are people who are running online, used stores locally here (Canada, Ont) with the proceeds often going to charity so that's positive, but I do miss brick and mortar stores - the "hunt" for a new book online isn't quite the same as walking through aisles, looking up and down shelves etc.
I think that's a fairly generous view. Personally I find it much harder to separate the artist from the art. Sometimes I will actively avoid learning too much about my heroes (in the arts, sports, film or music world). There is even a saying; that you should never meet your heroes. When it comes to great literature, there are many books that I still have not read. Plenty that were written by perfectly decent human beings. If I choose to avoid assorted assholes, racists and misogynists it is no great loss to me. I can live without reading Lovecraft, for example. Just on the specific point about statements made in the 1930s regarding rising villains like Hitler. I would tend to cut the writers some slack. They had no benefit of hindsight. In the early part of that decade the average person in, say, America might have read a couple of short newspaper articles about Mussolini and heard that he got the trains running on time. Hardly the basis for an informed opinion. But any short complimentary comment reads disastrously today.
I try to do so when I can but I also have a personal philosophy of "don't give money (or views) to people who hate you" so if I want to view art from someone in that category it won't be through means which give them money or support.
If the artist is DEAD, I am open to the work, with a careful eye back to the culture they're from. I think it's appropriate (and necessary) to call attention to any shitty messages they have in their work and denounce loudly and clearly the crappiness of the individual themselves, but since they won't benefit, I'm open to the work. I am NOT open to the work of living shitty people -- unless, as you say, I can do so without financially supporting the author. Knowing the author is trash definitely colors my opinion of their work and makes me very sad.
For me I don't think I can. Because what you create, in my opinion, is a reflection of what you believe and mindset. There's a reason why the saying "Never meet your heroes." Because for me if I love a creator and they turn out to be awful human beings. It breaks the administration and innocence that made you love the creator/artist in the first place. Especially with so much negative stereotype on a person of color and women, it hurts that even when you find escapism in your favorite media, that the person who created it is the very thing you try to escape from for an hour or more.
I would argue that separation totally isn't the right move, but it shouldn't mean not reading or appreciating art by problematic artists. Let me explain: Lovecraft's writing is incredible, great stories, but we can read it with the knowledge he was horrible because particularly what made him horrible was his immense fear of "The Other" and what else would have produced such great books entirely based around fear but from a man so afraid of basically everyone around him?
For me personally, I see how much editing and critique changes art while it’s being developed. Art is not published in isolation. Many minds contribute, so in that sense, it’s not entirely the author’s brain child. I’d also like to share Aphra Behn. She wrote Ooronooko which she meant to be pro-monarchy, anti-Black, but…all her colleagues thought she was supporting abolition and pro-BLM. It’s SO funny! I read her work and see how it’s clearly pro racism. But back then it was woke, apparently
Maybe Lovecraft was only able to write such good horror stories (the fear of the unknown), because he was such a racist and xenophobe. Of course, that doesn't excuse anything.
I agree with the death of the author massively with but a single caveat I will not support the art of a LIVING artist who is terrible. So I essentially agree with you entirely. So if Lovecraft was alive today I wouldn't buy his works unless he changed but since he is dead who cares? He is dead he cannot benefit from my purchase of his books.
I feel art can be separate from the artist but it's is important to make sure you understand why the art is racist so that you don't internalized the message of the author while reading there work.
The answer is: Yes! Author should always be separated from their works. Of course authors always/most cases uses their own expeciences, world view and values in their works in some ways or another to create their characters and the world they live in and the laws the characters follow but that does not mean characters are always the same as the author who writes them. The characters and everything else are always a mix of different people and situations and we writers just use them with our best abilities to create something new and to heal ourselves/others, learn new things/new world views and make the world better place. Live that kind of life everyday which allows you to sleep your nights peacefully.
I don't know if I even answered the question 😅
Brilliant take, I personally didn't look at it from that perspective in the video, being the author using their own experiences. It's a level of understanding most people are blind to and if I make another video I am much more likely to take into account. Cheers
Brilliant video, and a topic worth discussing. Personally, I don't separate artists from their art. Three main reasons:
(a) I generally don't see the need. I feel like this discussion commonly comes from a place of guilt or discomfort, where we are trying to justify enjoying or appreciating a work by someone who we find abhorrent. But I personally feel okay that I can find an artist horrible and enjoy their work without separating the two. Hell, I can find there to be problematic elements _in that work_ and still enjoy that work.
(b) I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone not to want to line the pockets of an author who uses their platform and wealth to do things they disapprove of. Frankly, I think that's a basic consumer right. I've never "boycotted" an artist myself iirc, but I'd *never* say someone else shouldn't.
(c) Sometimes it does the work itself a disservice. Would Lovecraft have written what he did if he wasn't a racist bigot? Probably not. I'm not convinced we can learn as much from the art we experience if we don't take into account the people behind it. I mean, if you aren't putting some part of yourself into what you're producing, is it really art at all? I'm not going to separate Lovecraft's views from his books any more than I'd separate Nina Simone's values from her music when she's singing I Wish I Knew How It Would Feel To Be Free.
But while I disagree with your overall stance on separating art from the artist, I think it's interesting how much of what you have said I do agree with. And you're right in that there is a lot of nuance here. 😄
Yes, the death of the author is a thing, I tend to separate art from artist. However, sometimes knowledge of the author's views etc can help us interpret themes within the text and aid us in recognising potentially problematic elements within a story.
Have to admit, my clickbaiting skills are getting finer by the video :D
lol
absolutely
I don't care if an author has a different point of view. It's going to happen and it doesn't necessarily mean they are a bad person.
JK Rowling should have passed away instead of Hargrid
@@LadyEmpathy666 And she will. We all will.
I bet H.P Lovecraft was rolling in his grave when they made Lovecraft Country, a Lovecraftian horror type show with a largely black cast.
The long and short of it (to me) is that while an author is still alive and/or is still a bigot (racist, homophobic, sexist, transphobic; whatever it may be), Then supporting them by purchasing their product isn't helping the situation. But the dudes like HP Lovecraft? He's dead as fuck and isn't benefitting from our money these days, so go ahead, buy every lovecraft book you want-- who can blame you? Its revolutionary horror
Most times the Autor is nit populär engough for the outside do know what the Autors personal vews are. Do you know what believes and values john gwynne, grady handrix, Jude Watson, dan brown have? I do not. So there is most times no conection between the art and the Artist beyound thd art itself. You love art and 10 years later you gain knowlage about some bad thinking hapits of an Autor, it can sour your anjoymand and that is a personal thing everyone has do come do terms withthemselfs. There is no universal answer everyone has do folow, and it should not.
I don't know why there is this idea that authors must be nice people in order for readers to buy their books.
Agreed with everything here - loved the support for libraries, another really good one would be used bookstores (assuming those still exist), the artist doesn't make money from books sold there (as far as I know) and you get to support a small business at the same time.
Bookstores are dying in this hemisphere, south, though I hope they're doing much better in the U.S. and other parts. Really do. We used to have a local bookstore and I was there every week buying a new book to read, but they closed during the pandemic. Sadge :(
@@AGWrites They're dying up here too sadly, North - although there are people who are running online, used stores locally here (Canada, Ont) with the proceeds often going to charity so that's positive, but I do miss brick and mortar stores - the "hunt" for a new book online isn't quite the same as walking through aisles, looking up and down shelves etc.
I think that's a fairly generous view. Personally I find it much harder to separate the artist from the art. Sometimes I will actively avoid learning too much about my heroes (in the arts, sports, film or music world). There is even a saying; that you should never meet your heroes. When it comes to great literature, there are many books that I still have not read. Plenty that were written by perfectly decent human beings. If I choose to avoid assorted assholes, racists and misogynists it is no great loss to me. I can live without reading Lovecraft, for example.
Just on the specific point about statements made in the 1930s regarding rising villains like Hitler. I would tend to cut the writers some slack. They had no benefit of hindsight. In the early part of that decade the average person in, say, America might have read a couple of short newspaper articles about Mussolini and heard that he got the trains running on time. Hardly the basis for an informed opinion. But any short complimentary comment reads disastrously today.
I try to do so when I can but I also have a personal philosophy of "don't give money (or views) to people who hate you" so if I want to view art from someone in that category it won't be through means which give them money or support.
If the artist is DEAD, I am open to the work, with a careful eye back to the culture they're from. I think it's appropriate (and necessary) to call attention to any shitty messages they have in their work and denounce loudly and clearly the crappiness of the individual themselves, but since they won't benefit, I'm open to the work. I am NOT open to the work of living shitty people -- unless, as you say, I can do so without financially supporting the author. Knowing the author is trash definitely colors my opinion of their work and makes me very sad.
Gotta love the way you make titles
For me I don't think I can. Because what you create, in my opinion, is a reflection of what you believe and mindset.
There's a reason why the saying "Never meet your heroes." Because for me if I love a creator and they turn out to be awful human beings. It breaks the administration and innocence that made you love the creator/artist in the first place.
Especially with so much negative stereotype on a person of color and women, it hurts that even when you find escapism in your favorite media, that the person who created it is the very thing you try to escape from for an hour or more.
I would argue that separation totally isn't the right move, but it shouldn't mean not reading or appreciating art by problematic artists. Let me explain: Lovecraft's writing is incredible, great stories, but we can read it with the knowledge he was horrible because particularly what made him horrible was his immense fear of "The Other" and what else would have produced such great books entirely based around fear but from a man so afraid of basically everyone around him?
For me personally, I see how much editing and critique changes art while it’s being developed. Art is not published in isolation. Many minds contribute, so in that sense, it’s not entirely the author’s brain child.
I’d also like to share Aphra Behn. She wrote Ooronooko which she meant to be pro-monarchy, anti-Black, but…all her colleagues thought she was supporting abolition and pro-BLM. It’s SO funny! I read her work and see how it’s clearly pro racism. But back then it was woke, apparently
... don't ditch the stick! Just fix it a little...polish it, put a nice patina on it... it's dynamic and expressive...
Maybe Lovecraft was only able to write such good horror stories (the fear of the unknown), because he was such a racist and xenophobe.
Of course, that doesn't excuse anything.
This.
I think it's the opposite, actually. The conspiratorial thinking that inspired him to create such horrific scenarios also inspired his bigotry.
I agree with the death of the author massively with but a single caveat I will not support the art of a LIVING artist who is terrible. So I essentially agree with you entirely. So if Lovecraft was alive today I wouldn't buy his works unless he changed but since he is dead who cares? He is dead he cannot benefit from my purchase of his books.
If the content doesn't ascribe to high levels of realism, then it's garbage
God bless you everyone
Stand still mate, and stop waving that stick about. It’s really distracting.
Heard this from many ppl and starting from the next video i'll get a chair :D