Thanks for this! I just started last month and can already tell I have been building bad muscle memory. These drills feel really good. And I am probably early enough in my learning that it won't be hard to undo!
I also play piano and another factor that I've used while learning is sleep. It's so important to sleep on your practice. I feel like sleeping almost doubles the skill I gained from any one session. Even days after I last practiced, just the fact that I've rested well and slept well, would allow me to instantly do something that i previously could not.
Went out to do some fieldwork today and changed my grip to the way you suggested. Put more of the meaty part of the thumb on the flight plate and immediately had great results. Drives felt effortless and bombed. The only problem was my aim was off but I just have to dial it in since I made a huge change with my grip. Thanks Doc! Game changer for sure!!!
I like to think about it like this: Use your elbow to aim and to find the power pocket, and then follow through with your arm in one swing plane. That means, open your arm like an opera singer. I don't focus on opening the arm, it happens naturally that the arm wants to continue forward, I just make sure to guide it along a big flat swing.
Been hard stuck at around 80m on most drives, going to use this to learn a better way to throw. I think I rotate shoulders too early and never get into the pocket, pretty much like the late release mistake you were showing. I always pinch with thumb and index finger so definitely going to try that grip change as well. Is the disc "pivot point" still the index finger with that grip, and do you grip the disc hardest with pointer finger or back fingers? Thanks! Toivottavasti vinkit toimii sit kun pääsee huonosta lihasmuistista eroon!
The disc will still rip out from the last point of contact, which is (and should always be) the pointer finger. The pressure of the grip will move with the disc as the disc pivots out of your hand. That being said, I do grip with the small fingers, but they will give up so easily I don't see it matters anyway. I could use a 3 finger power grip as well, with the same results.
So glad for your help! I've been getting into piano too. Started with guitar, and tabs, but i could never be sure what the music actually was with fret numbers (instead of note names) and different tunings people use. So I find piano tutorials for the song i wish to learn, practice it on my keyboard. When it sounds about right, I locate the notes I learned on my guitar fretboard
Your postman concept really started clicking for me today. I was finally able to break free from years of trying to turn my body to move the arm Was able coil to give the arm room for a long forward path and make the move as fast as possible while keeping head and body 90 from target. All throws immediately and consistently going 20-50 feet farther!😮 let the arm out-run everything. Coil and then just arm it.
Maybe this woulf be a great idea, i struggle to remember the new improved teqhnique since i had the old bad one for 1 year but still some days i get totally lost and when i have a good day and it feels soo good throwing and i cant seem to find what diffrent i did… but il try out theese🤩
Hi Jaani. I completely agree that breaking down everything then putting it all together later is the best way to learn. I have a couple questions though. The first being the manual pushing through the brace leg. I’m not convinced there is a manual pushing through the leg. I’m a video you released not long ago, you mentioned to not push through the leg as doing so would be out of timing. Josh has also discussed this with the water bucket drill, showing how the body will naturally push through the leg if the weight is heavy enough to stop you from going with the bucket. I’ve also seen this in my own videos of my form where my leg will extend naturally. You can also see pros sometimes not extend at all in shorter shots, but always extend in their long drives. The extension always appears to occur at disc release, which would be pretty difficult to time properly if manually doing it. I should also say that for me, manually pushing caused a lot of knee pain, while natural pushing hasn’t caused me any pain. So what are your thoughts on all of this? My other question is related to the arm. Are you bending your arm in along with the wrist? I can’t get any kind of pull action without the scapula flexing. Recently, I’ve been throwing with no arm use at all, and I’ve gotten far more distance than I have with a pulling motion. The bending motion has resulted in a very late release for me. Maybe I should revisit this? Currently, I have a serious problem with nose angles that I haven’t been able to fix. I have no idea what’s causing it, but only the pull method has consistently put the nose down. Oh, side question. What does the out part mean? Is that a manual slap into the hit, or a result of the arm curling in along with the shoulders naturally rotating through and whipping the arm out, and ideally faster than the shoulders opening?
Have I ever told you to EXTEND the leg? No, I don't think so. I have never told to extend nor force the leg action, just stop your forward motion as effectively as possible. That means you push down on the ground, tensing the leg. Never have I ever told you to extend the leg, and I didn't say it here either. You're hearing your own thoughts here. The arm? Well, I think until you can swing it relaxed so that it will naturally fold and unfold, you probably need to teach to do that by intentionally using the elbow as a hinge. After that, it will work like it should.
I agree except for off arm being included in the "dont worry about it" category. I think off harm is incredibly important and very bad habits can be developed if it's not taken into account as one of the chore mechanics.
Well, you can focus on that if you feel you need to. Others do not, if they just let it be relaxed, since that is the way to use it... meaning, to not use it at all.
Two questions: 1. The post-man drill seems to promote opening the arm away from your chest, instead of keeping the upper arm at ~90deg (when looking down) throughout the throw and rotating the torso. Is that correct? Is the arm not supposed to stay at ~90-110 degrees to the chest? or is this just to exaggerate the motion? 2. Grip: Won't pushing down with the base of the thumb push down the back of the disc, promoting nose up throws with gyroscopic progression and all that? I won't be able to test it myself for a few days, and I'm too inconsistent to tell much anyway. To be clear, I'm not criticizing, I'm genuinely curious, as there has been a huge amount of vastly differing opinions from youtube coaches lately on things, especially grip and what causes nose up, so I'm trying to sort through it all.
First: there is only one vastly differentiating youtube coach, who also has said that he's the only one teaching like he teaches. As far as I can tell, everyone else is pretty much in the same boat. 1. The postman is for teaching to separate your arm from the body rotation. Trust me when I say this: you are not able to not rotate the trunk correctly, if you keep the elbow out and the weight on the front leg. I have never seen anyone not rotate the body open if these are done correctly. On the contrary, almost everyone, if not everyone opens the torso too quickly with a passive arm, resulting in rounding. This is why I developed this drill. To make the arm active. 2. No. As I have said in other videos, the power you have in the base of the thumb lets your wrist to relax, which tilts the disc naturally to nose down angle. Also, you should try things out before assuming things publicly. I say this because it's best for you and saves the time of people like me, who want to correct misconceptions. As always, it's YOU who either benefits or doesn't, and if the tip doesn't work for you, it doesn't matter if I say it will. So, always try it out before assuming. Peace.
@@dgspindoctor I'm genuinely sorry if my questions seemed to criticise or caused offence or wasted your time. That wasn't my intent. Due to family care I can only get out to play once or twice a week for a very short round, so I have to make that time count to play a round for fun and also try some new stuff to improve my form from the TH-cam videos i watch when i can't get out. In that time I've watched lots and lots of coaching videos from lots of places (except Slingshot as i know they do it wrong). I shouldn't have said there are vastly different methods, but some things differ enough to cause confusion. Like old videos from many coaches all taught front loading the grip. Now I've seen a number saying backload the grip. Nick Krush even now says backload and don't use the thumb. Same with arm motion. Some say use the arm mostly, some say don't use the arm as it should be loose like a whip and all power comes from the hip rotation from bracing, and some are in the middle. Some say keep your arm at 90deg the whole throw which keeps the body and arm locked together, but this video and others too, promote body and arm separation as you said. With so much semi-contradictory information, it's hard to know what to focus on in my short time available. It's confusing and I'm trying to understand how they all work and which is best. My questions to you are strictly trying to learn more of what you are teaching, to understand the concept of it better and why it works so that i can focus on the right things. I trust your coaching and I really appreciate all your videos. I've watched pretty much all of them from the last year or so. Thank you for responding to my questions. I'll give all of this a try when i can and see how it goes. Thanks again.
No worries, man. I believe in intuitive style, that is, once you have the basics down, all you need is to let go of controlling and start ripping it hard, letting the body move naturally. The grip will get front loaded, but only at the release. Until that, I believe backloading will loosen up the arm and the wrist, so that it can move freely. When the disc starts to rip out, the pressure point moves towards the front, also naturally. And when I and the others say: use the arm, they don't mean "tense the arm." You can swing it hard and fast without making it rigid.
Hi - yet another amazing video ! Cant wait to get out tomorrow and give theese drills a run down.. except, IF, a big IF, i can do them... just 3 days ago i have removed a brace from my ring- and pinky fingers. The point of my ring finger was broken and my pinky is spained and will still recover over the next 2-3 months... so, any tips for a slow rebuild of grip while the fingers recover ? The doctors have greenlighted me playing, as long as i stop when it starts to hurt... finding it a bit painfull to backload grip, as the feeling in the ring finger is a bit odd still and it hurts a bit in the pinky when i try to apply pressure... but ive been sidelined for 7 weeks now, iam dying to get out and throw before fall sets in 😅
Great video. Keep it simple. I will try your thumb placement to see how comfortable it is and see if it produces more spin for me; I currently sit around 1150-1200 RPMs on my tech disc. Spin is an issue for me. Do you have any other suggestions for increasing it? More wrist curl makes the most sense to me. If I try a pinch grip, or just gripping the disc hard in general, my spin rate drops dramatically.
When I'm deep in the pocket, should the tip of my thumb be facing my chest, or should it be facing parallel to my body in relation to the disc? In other words, wow far does the wrist curl in, if at all when I'm deep in the pocket? Thanks!
What if i do everything wrong according to the video and throw a Aviar 325 feet , open hip(plantfoot facing forward), long reachback, open wrist, no turning with the plantfoot, no "deeppocket",
Sounds like a bad idea, and that you have plenty more in the tank if you threw more efficiently. Also putters are easier to throw incorrectly, since they don't need that much arm speed to fly okay.
@@dgspindoctor 119 meter(390feet) is a regular Luna throw//first hole on my course is 119 meter, flat no elevation,parked, Aviar , depends on extra wind carries, but the Luna travels/floats farther, 11 putts(10 Lunas), 1 destroyer, in my bag. if i ever change my forward pointing plantfoot, with open hips, long reachback, no deeppocket, il let you now, oh, dont foget to lean foward aswell :)
When you describe it here you say uncoil first and then the arm curls and goes (11:10), i feel like curling when uncoiling or when already uncoiled would cause a really late release? In my head the curl is definitely pre uncoil.
Hmmm, everything happens in sequence, but you have to think you do them at the same moment. I could be more specific, true, but also... no one can time the sequence in their head, so I just say: plant and whip. You'll figure it out, and so does your body.
Hei Jaani. Kerroppa mistä johtuu, että tänä vuonna olen gripannut kiekkoa poikkeuksellisen paljon? Erityisesti tämä on usein tapahtunut rysty antsa heitossa. Peliä olen pelannut jo yli 10vuotta, mutta tänä vuonna on tullut tälläinen ongelma mitä ei aiemmin ainakaan tässä mittakaavassa ole ollut. Välillä olen muuttanut otetta kiekosta niin, että jätän pikkurillin kokonaan pois otteesta. Se on saattanut hieman auttaa, mutta toisaalta vaikuttaa mielestäni heittopituuteen. Sitä kun ei ole muutenkaan liikaa tälläisellä yli 50v harrastajalla. :)
Monta mahdollista syytä. 1. Avaat tukijalan osoittamaan kohteeseen kun astut alas. 2. Käännät nenän kohteeseen ennen kuin kiekko on pocketissa. 3. Vedät lapalihaksilla kiekkoa. 4. Avaat ranteen heitossa. Otteella sinänsä ei ole merkitystä.
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Thanks for this! I just started last month and can already tell I have been building bad muscle memory. These drills feel really good. And I am probably early enough in my learning that it won't be hard to undo!
You got this!
Focus on one thing at a time is what I tell my own students.
I started x stepping all the way to work.
Video or didn't happen!
Lovely instruction, thanks! Great tip with the grip. 😊
Glad it was helpful!
I also play piano and another factor that I've used while learning is sleep. It's so important to sleep on your practice. I feel like sleeping almost doubles the skill I gained from any one session. Even days after I last practiced, just the fact that I've rested well and slept well, would allow me to instantly do something that i previously could not.
Totally agree!
There is a reason children sleep a lot and also learn the best!
Went out to do some fieldwork today and changed my grip to the way you suggested. Put more of the meaty part of the thumb on the flight plate and immediately had great results. Drives felt effortless and bombed.
The only problem was my aim was off but I just have to dial it in since I made a huge change with my grip. Thanks Doc! Game changer for sure!!!
Nice work!
Same results. My aim was off but as soon as i spent some time working on this, i was able to dial in my accuracy
@@Rhyno410 I'm glad to hear!
For the throwing arm, do you need to extend the elbow? Or just let it happen naturally when the hip pops open?
I like to think about it like this: Use your elbow to aim and to find the power pocket, and then follow through with your arm in one swing plane. That means, open your arm like an opera singer. I don't focus on opening the arm, it happens naturally that the arm wants to continue forward, I just make sure to guide it along a big flat swing.
Been hard stuck at around 80m on most drives, going to use this to learn a better way to throw. I think I rotate shoulders too early and never get into the pocket, pretty much like the late release mistake you were showing. I always pinch with thumb and index finger so definitely going to try that grip change as well. Is the disc "pivot point" still the index finger with that grip, and do you grip the disc hardest with pointer finger or back fingers? Thanks!
Toivottavasti vinkit toimii sit kun pääsee huonosta lihasmuistista eroon!
The disc will still rip out from the last point of contact, which is (and should always be) the pointer finger. The pressure of the grip will move with the disc as the disc pivots out of your hand. That being said, I do grip with the small fingers, but they will give up so easily I don't see it matters anyway. I could use a 3 finger power grip as well, with the same results.
So glad for your help!
I've been getting into piano too.
Started with guitar, and tabs, but i could never be sure what the music actually was with fret numbers (instead of note names) and different tunings people use.
So I find piano tutorials for the song i wish to learn, practice it on my keyboard. When it sounds about right, I locate the notes I learned on my guitar fretboard
Guitar is SO hard! Piano is simple 🤭.
@@dgspindoctor They're both equally hard for me.
Music sounds like it is easy when I hear it.
Try to play, and find out how wrong I was😆
Your postman concept really started clicking for me today.
I was finally able to break free from years of trying to turn my body to move the arm
Was able coil to give the arm room for a long forward path and make the move as fast as possible while keeping head and body 90 from target.
All throws immediately and consistently going 20-50 feet farther!😮
let the arm out-run everything. Coil and then just arm it.
@@SmarteeeSteve Exactly!
Great Video brother,maybe i can follow these tips in my next few field work sessions and get out if this air bouncing mess
Thanks! I hope you do!
Maybe this woulf be a great idea, i struggle to remember the new improved teqhnique since i had the old bad one for 1 year but still some days i get totally lost and when i have a good day and it feels soo good throwing and i cant seem to find what diffrent i did… but il try out theese🤩
Hi Jaani. I completely agree that breaking down everything then putting it all together later is the best way to learn. I have a couple questions though.
The first being the manual pushing through the brace leg. I’m not convinced there is a manual pushing through the leg. I’m a video you released not long ago, you mentioned to not push through the leg as doing so would be out of timing. Josh has also discussed this with the water bucket drill, showing how the body will naturally push through the leg if the weight is heavy enough to stop you from going with the bucket. I’ve also seen this in my own videos of my form where my leg will extend naturally. You can also see pros sometimes not extend at all in shorter shots, but always extend in their long drives. The extension always appears to occur at disc release, which would be pretty difficult to time properly if manually doing it. I should also say that for me, manually pushing caused a lot of knee pain, while natural pushing hasn’t caused me any pain. So what are your thoughts on all of this?
My other question is related to the arm. Are you bending your arm in along with the wrist? I can’t get any kind of pull action without the scapula flexing. Recently, I’ve been throwing with no arm use at all, and I’ve gotten far more distance than I have with a pulling motion. The bending motion has resulted in a very late release for me. Maybe I should revisit this? Currently, I have a serious problem with nose angles that I haven’t been able to fix. I have no idea what’s causing it, but only the pull method has consistently put the nose down.
Oh, side question. What does the out part mean? Is that a manual slap into the hit, or a result of the arm curling in along with the shoulders naturally rotating through and whipping the arm out, and ideally faster than the shoulders opening?
Have I ever told you to EXTEND the leg? No, I don't think so. I have never told to extend nor force the leg action, just stop your forward motion as effectively as possible. That means you push down on the ground, tensing the leg. Never have I ever told you to extend the leg, and I didn't say it here either. You're hearing your own thoughts here.
The arm? Well, I think until you can swing it relaxed so that it will naturally fold and unfold, you probably need to teach to do that by intentionally using the elbow as a hinge. After that, it will work like it should.
I agree except for off arm being included in the "dont worry about it" category. I think off harm is incredibly important and very bad habits can be developed if it's not taken into account as one of the chore mechanics.
Well, you can focus on that if you feel you need to. Others do not, if they just let it be relaxed, since that is the way to use it... meaning, to not use it at all.
Two questions:
1. The post-man drill seems to promote opening the arm away from your chest, instead of keeping the upper arm at ~90deg (when looking down) throughout the throw and rotating the torso. Is that correct? Is the arm not supposed to stay at ~90-110 degrees to the chest? or is this just to exaggerate the motion?
2. Grip: Won't pushing down with the base of the thumb push down the back of the disc, promoting nose up throws with gyroscopic progression and all that? I won't be able to test it myself for a few days, and I'm too inconsistent to tell much anyway.
To be clear, I'm not criticizing, I'm genuinely curious, as there has been a huge amount of vastly differing opinions from youtube coaches lately on things, especially grip and what causes nose up, so I'm trying to sort through it all.
First: there is only one vastly differentiating youtube coach, who also has said that he's the only one teaching like he teaches. As far as I can tell, everyone else is pretty much in the same boat.
1. The postman is for teaching to separate your arm from the body rotation. Trust me when I say this: you are not able to not rotate the trunk correctly, if you keep the elbow out and the weight on the front leg. I have never seen anyone not rotate the body open if these are done correctly. On the contrary, almost everyone, if not everyone opens the torso too quickly with a passive arm, resulting in rounding. This is why I developed this drill. To make the arm active.
2. No. As I have said in other videos, the power you have in the base of the thumb lets your wrist to relax, which tilts the disc naturally to nose down angle.
Also, you should try things out before assuming things publicly. I say this because it's best for you and saves the time of people like me, who want to correct misconceptions. As always, it's YOU who either benefits or doesn't, and if the tip doesn't work for you, it doesn't matter if I say it will. So, always try it out before assuming. Peace.
@@dgspindoctor I'm genuinely sorry if my questions seemed to criticise or caused offence or wasted your time. That wasn't my intent. Due to family care I can only get out to play once or twice a week for a very short round, so I have to make that time count to play a round for fun and also try some new stuff to improve my form from the TH-cam videos i watch when i can't get out. In that time I've watched lots and lots of coaching videos from lots of places (except Slingshot as i know they do it wrong). I shouldn't have said there are vastly different methods, but some things differ enough to cause confusion. Like old videos from many coaches all taught front loading the grip. Now I've seen a number saying backload the grip. Nick Krush even now says backload and don't use the thumb. Same with arm motion. Some say use the arm mostly, some say don't use the arm as it should be loose like a whip and all power comes from the hip rotation from bracing, and some are in the middle. Some say keep your arm at 90deg the whole throw which keeps the body and arm locked together, but this video and others too, promote body and arm separation as you said. With so much semi-contradictory information, it's hard to know what to focus on in my short time available. It's confusing and I'm trying to understand how they all work and which is best. My questions to you are strictly trying to learn more of what you are teaching, to understand the concept of it better and why it works so that i can focus on the right things. I trust your coaching and I really appreciate all your videos. I've watched pretty much all of them from the last year or so. Thank you for responding to my questions. I'll give all of this a try when i can and see how it goes. Thanks again.
No worries, man.
I believe in intuitive style, that is, once you have the basics down, all you need is to let go of controlling and start ripping it hard, letting the body move naturally. The grip will get front loaded, but only at the release. Until that, I believe backloading will loosen up the arm and the wrist, so that it can move freely. When the disc starts to rip out, the pressure point moves towards the front, also naturally.
And when I and the others say: use the arm, they don't mean "tense the arm." You can swing it hard and fast without making it rigid.
Hi - yet another amazing video ! Cant wait to get out tomorrow and give theese drills a run down.. except, IF, a big IF, i can do them... just 3 days ago i have removed a brace from my ring- and pinky fingers. The point of my ring finger was broken and my pinky is spained and will still recover over the next 2-3 months... so, any tips for a slow rebuild of grip while the fingers recover ? The doctors have greenlighted me playing, as long as i stop when it starts to hurt... finding it a bit painfull to backload grip, as the feeling in the ring finger is a bit odd still and it hurts a bit in the pinky when i try to apply pressure... but ive been sidelined for 7 weeks now, iam dying to get out and throw before fall sets in 😅
用大拇指、食指、中指，三个手指头握盘，有的职业选手就是这样握盘的。等到手指康复，对比一下，3指和5指哪个更好。
Selitys gripin osalta paras tähän mennessä! 👌
Ei yhtään gripparia tänään ja kiekot tuntu ottavan enemmän spiniä kuin koskaan -KIITOS!!😎
Ohoh, melkoinen parannus!
@@dgspindoctor no juu ja lenti 9 nopeuksinen pannu yhtä pitkälle kuin dessu viime kaudella about 50% powerilla 😄
Nätti homma!
Great video. Keep it simple. I will try your thumb placement to see how comfortable it is and see if it produces more spin for me; I currently sit around 1150-1200 RPMs on my tech disc. Spin is an issue for me. Do you have any other suggestions for increasing it? More wrist curl makes the most sense to me.
If I try a pinch grip, or just gripping the disc hard in general, my spin rate drops dramatically.
I think the deeper pocket you get, the more spin you get, but I struggle pocketing the disc due to poor mobility mostly.
When I'm deep in the pocket, should the tip of my thumb be facing my chest, or should it be facing parallel to my body in relation to the disc? In other words, wow far does the wrist curl in, if at all when I'm deep in the pocket? Thanks!
Ignore such details. The wrist probably won't curl "in"; the point is to not uncurl the wrist too early, to let the wrist move as it should.
What if i do everything wrong according to the video and throw a Aviar 325 feet , open hip(plantfoot facing forward), long reachback, open wrist, no turning with the plantfoot, no "deeppocket",
Sounds like a bad idea, and that you have plenty more in the tank if you threw more efficiently. Also putters are easier to throw incorrectly, since they don't need that much arm speed to fly okay.
@@dgspindoctor 119 meter(390feet) is a regular Luna throw//first hole on my course is 119 meter, flat no elevation,parked, Aviar , depends on extra wind carries, but the Luna travels/floats farther, 11 putts(10 Lunas), 1 destroyer, in my bag. if i ever change my forward pointing plantfoot, with open hips, long reachback, no deeppocket, il let you now, oh, dont foget to lean foward aswell :)
When you describe it here you say uncoil first and then the arm curls and goes (11:10), i feel like curling when uncoiling or when already uncoiled would cause a really late release? In my head the curl is definitely pre uncoil.
Hmmm, everything happens in sequence, but you have to think you do them at the same moment. I could be more specific, true, but also... no one can time the sequence in their head, so I just say: plant and whip. You'll figure it out, and so does your body.
@@dgspindoctor you're probably right. My mind always likes a checklist when throwing, plant+curl into uncoil+throw out seems to work well so far.
Got to turn off those piano lights. lol.
They don't actually blink, it's the frame rate.
🙏🙏🙏
Hei Jaani. Kerroppa mistä johtuu, että tänä vuonna olen gripannut kiekkoa poikkeuksellisen paljon? Erityisesti tämä on usein tapahtunut rysty antsa heitossa.
Peliä olen pelannut jo yli 10vuotta, mutta tänä vuonna on tullut tälläinen ongelma mitä ei aiemmin ainakaan tässä mittakaavassa ole ollut. Välillä olen muuttanut otetta kiekosta niin, että jätän pikkurillin kokonaan pois otteesta. Se on saattanut hieman auttaa, mutta toisaalta vaikuttaa mielestäni heittopituuteen. Sitä kun ei ole muutenkaan liikaa tälläisellä yli 50v harrastajalla. :)
Monta mahdollista syytä.
1. Avaat tukijalan osoittamaan kohteeseen kun astut alas.
2. Käännät nenän kohteeseen ennen kuin kiekko on pocketissa.
3. Vedät lapalihaksilla kiekkoa.
4. Avaat ranteen heitossa.
Otteella sinänsä ei ole merkitystä.
Kiitos vastauksesta. Täytyy yrittää tutkailla olisiko syy noissa mainitsemissasi asioissa.