PILOTS: What's my LEAST favorite question during CRUISE FLIGHT?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- It sometimes seems like "leaning" is the third rail of instructional topics. Touch it and die. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment :-) ... cause in this video we're discussing:
- WHY we lean
-WHEN we lean
- HOW we lean
This is NOT an advanced tutorial on leaning and you won't hear me discuss much of rich of peak or lean of peak. Rather, this video is designed to correct what appears to be almost zero mixture management taught to private pilots during their basic training. I worked really hard on this (believe it or not haha) so I really hope it clarifies things a bit for you. It's part one of a series that might as well be called, "Operation: make mixture simple".
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Music by Michael Bizar
A trip to the high country could teach them the hard way. Thanks for posting! Subscribed. Juan
For sure, I agree. Thanks for subscribing Juan, I watch your stuff all the time - I’m glad you liked this. It can be a dicey topic.
How to teach leaning an aircraft.
Lesson 1: Have student buy his own airplane.
Lesson 2: Student will do the rest from here (sooner or later).
This is how it happened for me!
I know that's right ✅
“It’s getting pretty cold in here, can we just turn the fan off?”
Ahh, yes.. leaning... a skill that is seldom taught in any phase of instruction. My son and I are based out of KBJC, Rocky Mt. Metro Airport in Broomfield, Colorado where proper leaning is MANDATORY since the field is over 5,600' MSL in elevation. First step after engine start is electric fuel pump off and lean mixture to prevent fouling at idle speeds. We don't touch the mixture again until we're ready for taxi... once oil temp comes in the green and checklist items are done, we slightly enrich to give enough power for taxi with a smooth engine. At run up, 1800 RPM, lean for best power... watch the RPM go max, then slight drop, then enrich back to max and make note of the hottest cylinder using the EI-SR8-A electronic engine analyzer. Then we do our mag checks and push the throttle full open to make sure the engine makes full static power, about 2300 RPM, with no hiccups. Some people say that's not good for the prop, but I say I'd rather know the engine is producing power before I start the takeoff roll than finding out during the roll or the climb out. When it's time for takeoff, we turn the aux fuel pump on, slowly advance the throttle and watch the engine and RPM gauges to make sure they are in the green and stay there. As we climb through 6,500' MSL, 1000' AGL, we will make slight adjustments to the mixture to maintain 75% power in a cruise climb. Vx speed in the Grumman is 70 KIAS and Vy is 80 KIAS at this altitude. 90 KIAS is Vy between sea level and 5,000' according to the POH. Typical cruise for a local flight is between 7,500' and 9,500' MSL and we operate between 2500 and 2700 RPM, unless we have to remain clear of Bravo airspace, then we're at 7,000' or below. One thing I've learned with the Grumman is that if you don't pay attention, she'll warn you by running rough real quick.
Thanks for the leaning lesson.
Gordon Feliciano yep, I’m out of centennial KAPA. My CfI didn’t teach me anything about leaning. I learned in xplane and reading the POH and just played with it on my solo XC flights to figure it out. The EGT gauges are janky and flicker in the flight school planes so no sense using them either lol.
Gordon Feliciano I’m a 61 yr old learning at McAir for a PPL, maybe we can fly sometime together?
@@2Greenlid Hello - McAir is a great place to learn to fly. I used to rent from them back when they were "Denver Air" many years ago. We own our Tiger and park it out on Western Air's ramp.
My son and I typically fly on weekends, preferably in the AM when it's cooler. I'll ping you the next time we're out there and maybe we can meet up for a flight.
Gordon Feliciano I would love the chance to fly in a different plane than a 172 to broaden my learning, I live 10 min north of KBJC, lesson at noon this upcoming Sat (22nd) , but whatever Saturday works for you, thanks!
"Where's the bathroom?"
I remember the first time I flew in a Cessna, when my CFI told me to lean I pulled the red knob like a trombone handle and he almost had a heart attack! Twist to lean is a cool feature that didn't seem to make it on American Champion aircraft. Thanks for the easy explanation.
I LOLLED
I was with my instructor practicing stalls. The right wing dipped and I just tried to roll it back level and BANG we rolled into a nice spin. He said "Power back" and i fire walled it. Talk about a tight spin and fast decent! I have never forgotten that, scared the crap out of me
I had my first lesson yesterday, and my instructor showed me the twist function to begin with. I can imagine the reaction in your situation, though!! Brilliant XD (Maybe he had a student do what you did in the past!)
I’m totally going to save that question for when we fly together...
Seriously though - great video on leaning techniques... Maybe it’s just me, but it’s even different living at altitude. We’re taught to do a little leaning on the ground on fixed pitch props.
Jason, thanks for the video, great stuff!
But quick question - do I lean for DENSITY Altitude? Because I'm currently learning at a 2700MSL rwy with temperatures above 25°C, most days 30°C is considered a "cool day".
If that's the case... I really should lean for standard operating procedures 😅
Steps for proper leaning...
1) Buy a Rotax
Yup !
I fly on a Rotax 912.
Choke to start when engine is cold. End of discussion regarding mixture.
Home airport is at 3,600. My after start checklist is alternator master on, ammeter check, flaps up, lean mixture. A&P always says the plugs look great in my engine.
My least favorite question: "What's a Master Caution light and why is it on"?
Who is Master Caution ^^
I just passed my commercial check ride, and I think you may get more views on this video if you titled it "Why we lean, when we lean, and how we lean"
Are we there yet? :-)
My plane has an Insight engine monitor. It's handy.
I remember leaning the DA 40 and once I climbed to 10k I leaned it to the point I was getting 4.9 gal/hr. 142 TAS 150 GS. Now I see I could of gotten 600 NM + out of that flight.
Dad, can we cruise at 3000', my iPhone lost signal and I'm bored.....
Personal least favorite question from my students. "Should I try to listen to the weather?" Great video again! Working on CFII right now
Really feel like they missed a great opportunity to call it CCFFII.
"Bucket list for 2020": Don't die this year.
If you start leaning the engine say 100 RPM below 75% power and the tach goes above 75% during the leaning process, is that acceptable or should you reduce power and try again to stay below 75%?
I believe the "why" in proper leaning & general engine management should be taught and exercised throughout primary, even though typical training-flights slug around 3,000' MSL.
Unfortunately as you said, certificated pilots lack a basic understanding of effective leaning.
Great point, Jason!
As long as we're opening cans of worms, how about operating oversquare? That's a myth that just won't die.
Read Busch's book.
I thought that the question was going to be:
"Is the wing supposed to flap like that? "
I often get asked; "Do you ever get bored of flying?" .... Uhhhhh... (Sips on my coffee).... Nope.
Great video and probably one of the least discussed topics in PPL training. Keep up the great work!
A seldom mentioned part about all this that Mike Busch mentions is that unlike a car or other engines, airplane engines don’t have a choke. A choke on a regular engine enrichment the mixture for start up by reducing air flow. So in an airplane engine, to have the mixture rich enough for start up, they are set to run excessively rich via fuel flow, instead of choking down the intake. Once started however, The engine is now running “too rich” in many situations, and leaning should be used as mentioned with the mindset that our aircraft engines are very often running too rich.
Is there an app for leaning in flight? ;)
for me as a newbie that is the most confusing aspect. Checking the POH it tells mostly lean for best RPM and smooth running engine. Okay, I can go with that. But then there are also procedures for example for landing, it says in the same POH „full rich for idle“, and recommends during training flights and doing some airwork lean for best RPM again. But esp. during airwork I might go to idle or full power many times. So in the end it leaves me mostly unsure about how much to lean. And as someone else here wrote already, my flightschool had a no-leaning policy for their airplane.
I haven't watched the video yet - Least favorite = leaning as in when should I lean. My first choice is if I'm on a steep incline and might fall over if I don't lean, then I should lean :o) On to the video (bet a full nickel that it's about leaning :o) )
Ha... I'm psychic! ok so I'm a Patron and I saw this earlier. Mike Bush's book Mike Bush on Engines is a great book. At least as far as I've read. I hope to own one day but I bought to help me protect the engine of the aircraft that I rent.
Since my EGT gauge is INOP, I've gone with the manufacturer recommendation, lean until rough, richen until smooth
My dad had an issue many years ago, due to lean/rich settings. He was flying up the Sierras to Toulome Meadows ( High Altitude) He leaned like he was supposed to spent the night, tookoff, of course leaned due to the altitude, and headed to Death Valley ( below sea level) he forgot to richen on the way down and ended up deasticking into Death Valley. Took him a few minutes to figure out why the engine quit. He starved it of fuel.
Thanks for telling that, it’s exactly the reason I feel like we need this video
I feel like this is something I need to be careful of. The lowest altitude airport I have been to is KMAN at 2500 ft and I could totally see myself making this mistake.
This is why I use checklists. The descent checklist I use has "Mixture - Enrich" on it. Also the engine failure checklist has "Mixture - Rich" when attempting a restart.
I thought it would be "Are we there yet?"
Students rarely fly above 3500 feet, and even more rarely fly at altitude at cruise speed.... my least favorite question is what to do in these rare situations... got it.
Dude, you've got to be one of the best instructors out there. You explain concepts so well.
THANK YOU for supplying AWESOME content. So practical, so useful.
Two thumbs up.
So glad I don't have to "lean" my car when I drive from 2,000 feet to 10,00 feet and back down.. These antique aircraft engines have had their day.
Old cars it would effect.
You must have some serious altitude variation where you drive 😆😉
I love pilots who INSIST that leaning on the ground at idle will burn your cylinders up. They never can figure out why their spark plugs are always fouled....
Yeah that makes no sense. No reason to have the engine soaked with gas while it is idling at 1000 rpms... however, you better not forget to rich it up again for takeoff.
Now I'm confused for sure. I learnt no leaning during taxi to avoid overheating. Not much airflow for cooling there so the fuel is used instead. That was what my instructor taught me.
nightbird1972 The engine is producing so little power at idle that overheating is rarely a concern. The best way to do it is to lean aggressively on the ground. Lean so far that if you tried to set takeoff power the engine would just die immediately. Some lean just a little bit, but this sets you up to cause damage if you forget to go full rich before takeoff. Properly done, you will have the mixture knob/lever WAY out, like 3/4 of the way out. Engine will be cool and plugs clean, mag checks will pass every time, and it will be impossible to cause damage. I’ve done this on everything from a 150 to a cabin-class twin with excellent results.
jonathanknight89 3/4?! Really? Never even dared to try! But the engine in the airplane I fly most of the time these days has to be held at 1300 rpm for the first couple of minutes after engine start or it will quit quickly. Not really sure why and if leaning could help at that point.
@@birds_eye_view when the engine is cold, some gas condensates on the cylinder walls, so sending in some extra gas helps, apparently, the first couple of minutes. Honestly, at our club, there's so little of taxiing to do that I've never seen anyone lean for taxiing. We do, however, have fouling issues with the training c152, so I think it would probably help to do it. I will try and keep an eye out for oil temperature. However, I believe I have seen somewhere "official" that leaning should be done for long taxi routes, I'd be surprised if you can really get overheating issues at such low power settings.
My first two instructors were extremely vague about leaning the aircraft though the airfield elevation (KRIF) is over 5,000 msl
Haha 3000 feet I got to go another 500 feet to get the traffic pattern altitude I lean before takeoff in Tucson every time especially when it’s warm mind your DA. Great video.
Leaning for taxi is critical to prevent fouled plugs during run-up. I've met many pilots who don't know this, and even seen renters return an aircraft saying, "It runs rough when checking the mags..."
#truth
Man I was way off I thought your lest favorite question was can you spot me $350K so I can buy that Cessna T182T. Thanks once I start retraining I will keep everything I am picking up here and hopefully be able to apply it.
POH on the 172 we have says lean also for ALL ground operations. But the checklist after we do run up and magneto check (with full mixture) no checkpoint for tax ti runway.
Everyone needs to remember that these altitudes are DENSITY altitude. There are a lot of places where going full rich for takeoff might get you killed, even at 1,200 MSL. In addition, I don't think most people realize that the procedure is not "mixture full rich for takeoff". You only go full rich at low density altitude. Watch the video of the crash of N773C. You'll see the mixture is full rich, and the density altitude was almost 9,200 feet.
It's my opinion that the mixture should be adjusted before every single takeoff. Leave it a little overly rich to aid in cooling. You do a preflight inspection on nearly every single feature and function, including carburetor heat, why not check that the mixture adjustment is working too?
This also applies to landing. "Mixture full rich, carb heat on" will almost give you a flameout at higher density altitudes. Actually sometimes it does. At the very least, it fouls the plugs and they stay that way until your next startup and takeoff.
Leaning to best power (peak RPM on a fixed pitched prop) in climb is not the best procedure out there. If you have an engine monitoring system, you will see best power in climb makes for excessive CHTs due to the reduced airflow at climb speed. In climb you should therefore lean to something significantly richer than best power until you level out and pick up airspeed, and cooling airflow. And Mike Busch will probably tell you that best power mixture is the worst, most abusive place to run your engine, also in cruise, whenever power is above 65%. But nice videos. Keep up the good work!
Fuel injection. Water cooling. No carb heat or mixture control. Welcome to the 1930's my lads. :)
Lean of peak? Rich of peak?
I need not concern myself with such things. My aircraft is powered by Rotax.
My least favourite question, though, comes from my wife - “Are we nearly there, yet?”
My least favorite question If I have family aboard is usually. Hey dad. Can we find a bathroom? Me: Seriously!?
As long as you do your approach checks properly and put Mixture back to Full Rich !
This is so funny. Not three hours ago I was flying with a new student who asked me that exact same question. And this guy is an A and P mechanic😆
If all that sounds complicated, just learn to fly Robinson helicopters and enjoy running on full rich all the time! 😊👍
Where I live leaning would be a way of life because all the local airports I would use are 5000’ +, not to mention high density altitudes during the summertime. I live at 7000’, so any airstrip I would use would be high already. In this part of the country fouling out the engine would be a real possibility without leaning.
embarrassed to say but I'm a new pilot with a poor understanding of the leaning stuff. and probably flew a little too rich because I was always, frankly to nervous to lean the engine the proper way due to poor understanding of that process. this helped a bunch without being too much of a fire hose.
I fly alone ALL the time so nobody asks me a thing. EGT is a decent indicator of when, where and how to lean. No questions from it either....ha. Also, Lean it until the engine dies and then enrich slightly and let the windmill start the engine and leave it there and you should be close. Hahahaha
The real worst question is "why is the the cabin filling with smoke?"
Yes, lean. Your General Aviation A+P and your wallet will thank you if you ever own an aircraft and you might as well get into the habit of doing it as its easier to do that sooner than later.
One question is...."Hey Jason...I have to take a leak....now what ?"
identify closest airport, if its under you, mixture rich, carb heat, throttle to idle, bank to 45 degrees and pitch for the top of the green arch... good as time as any to learn how to loose altitude and in flight deviation planning fast :) cause the sick sac just isn't an option in a 172
I had no idea those little steps on the tach meant that. Hmmmm..... the more you know.
..you need to answer what we all want to know..if i never lean will i hurt anything but waste gas?..will i foul the plugs or hurt the engine at any altitude not leaning?
Thank you so much for the vid. This is so helpful!
You I don't think your co-pilot finds the topic interesting
I was expecting "can we go any faster?"
“Um… You see any open fields on your side of the plane?”
What do you do if your airport is higher than 5000
The best question? I have to pee, where's the bathroom?
Im a lean dummy, this actually really helped haha
Your co-pilot seems less than thrilled with this lesson. lol
Hey Jason how about another one on “when to really use carb heat” 😎
I thought there were no bad questions.
Damn I wish watched this sooner.
You sound like Dave Grohl
I'll take 200% TBO time please
Another thing the rich mixture does is help with cooling. Especially during the climb. Full rich to 5000ft (unless cruising lower)... enriching every 1000ft in descent. 5 minutes or 3000ft from landing whichever occurs first. Then mixture full rich. BEFORE reducing power for approach. To help cool it down before you reduce power. Just my two cents. Flew piston singles for 7500hrs. Really need to take care of your only engine. Don't forget to warm it up to green temps before takeoff. And idle it a minute before shutdown. (Unless your POH says otherwise of course)
I want to learn from a CFI like you
Laughs in fuel injected engine
Jason, once again thank you 😊 🙏
whats the inflight movie?
Very good point. I learnt about that 75% power fine print hidden in the POH when first time climbing to altitude 7500 feet due to clouds. It was quite scary to hear the engine struggle and miss firings while above clouds obscuring mountains below us. After we reached cruise altitude, the problem went away of course after leaning.
great video. @ 3:16 you mention our "tribal" rule of thumb to lean above 5000' ... well 5000 what? MSL? what about temperature? what if we are 7500 DA? operating in a state with very warm conditions, I teach to lean above 5000 DA unless CHT get too hot. would love to hear your input on considerations of temperature for DA.
Yeah that makes sense. Technically, DA is the thing ... but when I said "5000' " I mean't that most pilots just look at the altimeter. I get away with a lot on heat because it's rarely that hot here but the temps are build into the performance tables and DA is the real number to use when figuring out percent power.
Hello. On Cessna 152 POH they say: "To achieve the recommended lean mixture fuel consumption figures shown in Section 5, the mixture should be leaned until engine RPM peaks and drops 25-50 RPM. At lower powers it may be necessary to enrichen the mixture slightly to obtain smooth operation."
So to reach this values I just lean the mixture until peak EGT and keep leaning until 25-50 RPM drop? Thank you!
"ARE WE THERE YET?" 😂
Doh! I was gonna write that!
lean during taxi? never mentioned from any of my instructors during my ppl training.. I dont get the logic of that anyway, but airports around here are less than 200ft asl
Yes, lean the engine just short of quiting, otherwise you will foul the spark plugs.
Your kids are so bored on that plane, is like you drive to the supermarket :) Anyway, very useful info, I'll try to keep this in mind when I will get on my flight school....someday.....
Thank you
Jason, I just have one question: "Should I lean?" (sorry, I couldn't help it!)😂😂😂
As Always, great info!
love the bored kid :)
Not just above 3000ft, thats only for full power climb. The manual says lean anytime below 75%. So c172 at 2000ft at 2300rpm in cruise is about 68% so it should be leaned.
Leaning is good at any altitude. Leaning is even good on the ground while taxiing. Check your manual, but never take the information you get for granted. Investigate for yourself. Talk to mechanics. Check your spark plugs. And then pray that the systems that already exist for cars to optimize fuel to air ratio get a place in aero engine management!! And Mike Bush is the bomb!!
I know a few people absolutely scared to touch the mixture knob because CFI's weren't taught it, and they pass that fear to their students. Mixture knob is your friend. It recovers some horsepower and saves you some fuel.
This is the best simple introduction to leaning that I have seen. I especially like the 75% power rule - simple and effective. One tip I will add is that for economy cruise with fixed pitch props, lean just "rich of rough" - lean until you sense engine roughness, then enrich just enough to smooth it out.
I think you forgot to mention this only applies to normally aspirated engines. With turbochargers of course there still is an altitude at which 75% cannot be achieved any more, but it certainly is not at 3000 or 5000 ft :)
"Are we there yet?"
What're your thoughts about leaning for cruise in a 172 below 3000'?
I feel like all the sim flying and sim racing I’ve done for fun would lend some familiarity with being able to sight out of side window and remain orientated. * what was the reference point called? Damn I forgot it’s name but I would be able to perform the skill 😅
I love best economy because I'm poor. I can usually get a way lower fuel burn than the POH states for not much less IAS
The plugs at the flight school are constantly getting fouled in the summer. Leaning, especially during taxi, just isn't covered properly. Drives me nuts.
The idea that in 2021 you'd still have to manually adjust the lean on an engine shows you that the aircraft industry is still in the dark ages.
I always leaned for best rpm in the climb above 3000, then at level off lean for fuel flow as found in the cruise chart in the poh, then turn on my lean assist and wait for it to track the cylinder head temps and fine tune it for manufacturer's suggested lean.
Great information -- thank you. The irritation part of your CFI duties...less helpful.
I really like this. Just a good ol' fashion conversation. Let's talk about leaning
I was taught two ways of leaning.
EGT and by ear.
EGT wait for egt to peak and go two full turns twords rich.
Ear lean untill I hear the engine start to lose power and two full turns to rich
Lean is mean.
My uncle makes music and publishes them on Sound cloud is there anyway he could contact you? So you can use them in your videos if you wish.
Rules of thumb slightly different for turbo engines...
Funny you brought this up as I'm finishing up my PPL in the Denver metro and as part of the run-up in the 172, we will lean prior to takeoff and for the most part leave it that way unless it is a cross country. But then I was thinking, hey when I'm in California and taking off from Montgomery Field, I hope to remember NOT to lean prior to takeoff. (Yes I know it is in the checklist).