WHY ARE PRODUCTION BOATS SO CHEAP?! Dufour Sailboats - Ep 265 Lady K Sailing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.พ. 2024
- Today we're talking about production sailboats and why they are so cheap. Are you really getting as much sailboat as your think? And this is a half million dollar Dufour 41 sailboat you could buy, brand new! With a sailboat wrap instead of normal color int he gelcoat. The wrap is nice, the v-berth is nice, but the boat? I dunno. Am I missing something? Boats like Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Catalina, Hunter, and Lagoon, Leopard, Fountaine Pajot.
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Justified criticism and an honest review pointing out shortcomings in a $500k boat is NOT a rant. Hope Dufour takes notice.
It looks like the designers at Dufour were trying to put to use a ton of materials that were otherwise going to go to waste. I wouldn't doubt they were trying out design ideas, while putting all those materials to use, knowing that all of the materials could be upgraded on other builds. An upgraded millwork package could easily add a few hundred thousand to the price.
I could easily redesign the interior, or just swap materials, and turn this into a $1 Million+ yacht. This would be a great way for a craftsman to get an out-of-price range sailboat in their price range and build it up.
@@VidarrKerr for a fraction of the price, my 2006 Dufour 44 Perfornance was much better built with better materials throughout. And inflation has not been that huge since then.
You’re right; for half a million bucks one expects more
Can't believe it costs over half a million to get a mere 41 foot boat with a bad quality interior, the kind you won't even find in new cheap production US housing.
Buy an house instead or a good and solid camper truck!! This boat fashion mania It doesn't stand anymore, they sell a green dream for the rich Parisian posh. However, this frenzy that exists in pleasure boats disgusts me. Only two types of boats must go to sea, those for necessity, i.e. fishing boats and boats for the transport of goods. Everything else is just fluff... They have simply created a product to sell, to show but nothing more: sailboats, for those who really love sailing, should be made simply to sail under the coast and not risking people lives to be enabled for ocean navigation.
@@KoDeMondo What? So traveling by ship is only for fishing and shipping goods? Thankfully you are not in charge of boats. Stick to "solid camper trucks" dude.
I bought a 17 year old Oyster at 15% the cost of new, half the price of the brands you mentioned for the same size. I nearly doubled that cost in upgrading all systems new aircon, genset etc. The hull and joinery is flawless. I think it will last another 20 years. On top of that, the good folks at Oyster treat me like I just bought it when i need parts, advice, etc. Can't speak highly enough of the quality.
I want a 20 year old oyster 62
Im horrified too. The interior of a boat, especially at that price, should be solid wood. Laminate is a nightmare in moisture. Joinery should be quality. Seems like buying a used boat with good bones would be a wiser choice.
Solid wood is the moisture nightmare. If “laminate” you mean plywood, plywood is way more stable in variably moist environments.
properly finished and maintained wood in 40 year old boats holds up beautifully. No way laminates hold up in the long run like that.@@jayelwin
@@CPB111 if you look at the underlying construction of even the finest boats, you will find the beautiful wood is veneer on marine plywood. That is how Swan builds their interior furniture. Plywood is functionally superior to solid wood. There is no shame in the use of plywood.
@@jayelwin not sure where you are coming from? Teak will last forever, plywood and laminates come apart with the slightest moisture penetration.
No way
Love the Rant!
I, for one, never thought I would see Tim go off like this. Tim's right, though.
Your show about the Dufour is very true. The same to say is the Jeanneau. The wife and I sailed on a 519 Jeanneau for a year in a time share with 3 other couples. We were requested not to check the bilge because every time you lifted up the floor soul it would chip the laminate. The same goes for the cabinets. We finally purchased our 4th sail boat in the 30 some years of sailing.
Three of the boats were Hunters and one O'day. If we were going to live aboard we would probably preferer something more substantial. However we find that the 2000 to 2011 range of hunter is just the right combo of real wood and solid laminate.
Thanks for your channel. It's very informative.
Buy an house instead or a good and solid camper truck!! This boat fashion mania It doesn't stand anymore, they sell a green dream for the rich Parisian posh. However, this frenzy that exists in pleasure boats disgusts me. Only two types of boats must go to sea, those for necessity, i.e. fishing boats and boats for the transport of goods. Everything else is just fluff... They have simply created a product to sell, to show but nothing more: sailboats, for those who really love sailing, should be made simply to sail under the coast and not risking people lives to be enabled for ocean navigation
On top your your rant. In Gran Canaria they are famous for arriving in need of rudder drive bearings needing service. Same with Elan boats. Wish we could attach photos to show them in the yard before the ARC. Thanks for calling them out.
This is the information we need to see ! Ferrari are the most beautiful cars in the world but probably would`nt cut it as a daily driver 🙂
Share more such info if you can! Thanks!
You nailed it! Looks like a doctors office…
even worse...a dentists office
The only thing dufour maters is to please the market, and if the number of sales goes up for a steady while, it means they are answering the market . It’s very much the only logic any builder should have. Cannot please everybody, but please the mass. Marketing and product is the mix
As a carpenter by trade, all the interior comments was like having a stick poke my eyeballs!! Totally unacceptable quality control at the price point!!
I purchased a new Dufour 48 Cat, and took delivery in June 23. Just finished my first complete "owners" trip on her. 3 previous canceled due to mechanical issues and 1 sitting in a marina for 5 days waiting on parts. While on the trip I went through all the systems on the boat in my mind and realized that the only system that hadn't failed and needed repair or replacement was the stereo system.... I mean EVERY system! Gen, Nav, Rigging, watermaker, anchor, refrigeration ect etc every system. Cabinetry delaminating and pulling loose. I can go on.
Is there a Lemon Law for boats?
I used to love the Beneteau 393 and Hunter 41 but over a few years I haved slowly morphed towards the comfort, safety (I'll be single-handing a lot), beauty and build quality of older boats like Passport, Cabo Rico, and Bristol.
Bristol Lover here !
Wow. I've never been aboard the latter three. I've always loved the both the 393 and the 41. It must be in the ride? Or the build quality?
We just bought a 1985 Catalina 36 MkII and love it! She sails beautifully. Sure we had to replace a few things, but other than that the interior is beautiful and roomy. That was one of the reasons we picked this boat.
Another one here !!!!
Hmmm looks like you are loving true "bluewater" boats takes a few 1000 miles in the ocean to figure out that comfort is not 4 heads on a 45 foot boat with hull windows .
Nowadays these boats are made mostly for charter companies so that they could be sailed every week by a new crew of happy newly-IYTed skippers (myself included) somewhere in the mideterranean, 5 nm off the shore at max - half a sunday sailing (or in many cases the sails aren't even set), the rest part of the day anchored in a beatiful bay for swimming and boozing. Thus a cheap, easy to fix and replace interior... And many other compromises and cheapenings in the production.
I chartered a Dufour GL 380 in the Bahamas a few years ago and loved it... all but the interior. it was falling apart as you pointed out. At the time I just figured it was due to it being a 4-year-old charter boat. You are absolutely right about expecting more from a 1/2MM boat. Thanks for another honest assessment.
The Dufour 41-2 lightship displacement is
21,347.36 lb / 9,683 kg.
Ballast:5,732.02 lb / 2,600 kg.
Thank you!!!
@LadyKSailing I got the same info. 10t with 2.6 t keel that is not good. My 37 feet boat is 7t with 3t keel.
always good to hear you. Sounds accurate by our observation, we were looking at them in Annapolis this year.
Their sales manager is going to have a zoom call about you. : )
here's hoping
Don't it suck to be the sales manager
@@LadyKSailing
This type of review is necessary Tim. Never sell out....thick as a brick brother
It’s not 500k usd neither
I'll stick with my Ericson 39. If I work hard I may spend 10% of the cost of the Dufour once it is fully renovated. Plus i get the fun of sailing it while i am fixing it ;)
I sure don’t mind the Rant. You made some very solid points. I appreciate the time and effort you put into these videos for us.
I agree. 1/2 mill? Buy used and you will have plenty left over for repairs.
I agree to an extent. Some years ago a friend and myself had sailed small keel boats for years and decided to get together to buy a larger boat boat on a budget. We bought a tired ex charter First 501 in Saint Martin. We brought her back to the UK and did some serious hard work on her. We replaced a few things and added new sails. At the end of the day we had a 52 foot boat that neither of us could have afforded. She served two families, four en suite cabins, well for years both in Northern Europe and the Med. Yes, I would love a Hallberg or an Oyster but in the real world they were totally out of reach.
truely an eye-opener thanks for sharing, love the channel its so helpful as we are about to make a leap into sailing and buy our first yacht, looking at a amel 53 or Hallberg-Rassy as wishing to start cruising the pacific
Well that was a nice rant and I totally agree. Looks a bit sterile and cold. I'll stick with my 40 year old whatever for now.
Tim, you can rant all you want. I'm still going to like and comment on your videos!
Thank youuuuu!!!
I agree. While looking at boats in Annapolis, I was shocked by the surface finishes and fit quality of boats costing in the mid-six figures. While the dark teak might be dated, I understand trying to make the interiors brighter and more airy. But, the Ikea look doesn't appeal to me.
It's OK to rant. Sometimes, it creates change. Love your intro tune. Keep up the good work.
The true rant it should be to raise attention and awareness that no one should be allowed to sail in open ocean with any of this sailing boat ANY!!
@@KoDeMondoI can see you do not like sailing; does this mean scuba divers should avoid diving, race car drivers should refrain from racing cars, mountain climbers should steer clear of mountains, and private pilots should avoid flying planes? Let us know fisherman.
@@ejdd3442 Sailing is a Modern Trend
Sailing has become more popular in recent times, partly due to increased wealth, the desire for authentic experiences, and its portrayal as a status symbol.
While sailing has a long history, its use as a competitive sport and leisure activity (vela sports) is pretty recent. Sailing is also very dangerous, especially with changing weather conditions and for inexperienced sailors.
The lack of strict third-party control in boat construction. While safety regulations exist, there's not a rigorous system to guarantee standards are always met throughout the building process.
This creates potential risks for buyers relying on the builder's reputation and their own thorough inspection of the vessel.
@@ejdd3442 sailing was an activity born for fishing and trade, also for exploration and war purposes. Today is just a status symbol.. Let's called a modern trend. A place where people throw away money they don't need. In future with high cost of living this cardboard boat will become empty shelvev full of Seagull poop.
@@ejdd3442 no worries mate just wanted to highlight few important points on about sailing. Sailing is a dangerous sport, it's a very recent sport before people used to sail for fishing, exploration and commerce In modern times all this has turned into an activity where everyone has become an expert sailor but in reality the sea is large and with many pitfalls. Those who go to sea should do so only with full knowledge of the facts, without endangering their lives and the lives of other people. Outside of this premise I would like to highlight.
Recently boat builders were born, but these do not have any type of approval. the boats are built according to projects and materials that no one tested/approved during construction. There is no type of inspection or audit that certifies the construction.
So the whole process of construction of these modern boats are left to the shipyard.
Among other things, these shipyards used materials such as fiberglass which are quite recent and even if they offer excellent characteristics of durability and construction they present enormous risks
Today these builders build increasingly lighter boats and performing without keeping an eye on the safety of the occupants.
The marinas are full of these boats often forgotten by their owners it is a business that unfortunately has often caused accidents loss of money and lives
Its really good to see you again! Out of your "Rant" the thing that I absolutely agree with the most is the uneven floor. Safety first!
Yes! Thank you!
Love your directness!
You explained the plastics very well. Thank you.
Tim, long-time follower and fan of your channel, first-time commenting here.
I have watched over 200 of your videos, and I have learned a lot. Thank you for your expertise and insight.
We will be in a market for a sail boat in not too distance future and I can't wait to bring you on as our consultant. 🙏
there was so many pictures and explanations this is in line with what i come to Lady K Sailing to watch
You are spot on about the absence of color. In the plastic industry we refer to this as "natural" meaning no colorant has been added. Looks like natural uhmwpe instead of some kind of curable resin or phenolic.
Rant away! I always love hearing what you have to say.
Cruising World claims 21,467 lbs and I agree...the interior is straight Motel Six stuff
Hahahahahhaaaaaaa YUP
Perfectly justified rant Sir! The inside of that boat is a track can! It looks like a remediated grow op!
Not that I’m ever going to buy one of these new boats… but looking at all the new ones at Annapolis Boat Show I was in shock at the price and nothing but squeaky IKEA furniture.
Rants are educational as long as they aren't what the channel turns into. Thank you for another excellent video
Flashing this is what the french industries are in. No more real sailing boats. I used to sail down to St-Laurent to Gaspé on a Jeanneau Arcadia 1984. She was able to sail in almost all weather and sea conditions. But today I wont go anywhere on a french boat execpt to go south and around the yacht club on a sunny sunday afternoon.
Informative Thank You, I agree with your observations and love the IKEA Dentist office analogy!!!
Rant all ya want!!! Its good for All of us!
I was just on a Dufour 390 in the Bahamas and was amazed at the cheapness of the build. Fuses! Fuses! in the 21st century!! Totally inadequate battery bank! Cushions straight from the 1960s! No remote mic on the VHF. Unprotected touchscreen nav that could totally F you over... Strange instrument layout, compass all alone to port. Sailed nice but I'd think you would get more for the $$$$$$$.
Thanks good to hear your take
I loved this video. I would love to watch more like it. I'm not sure if I'd consider it ranting but whatever it is I like it.
This is a rant with benefits. We now know more of what to scrutinize when boat shopping. So, thanks for the rant.
YES, love the rant! Also love the Dufour until this episode!! Good on Y!
Great! Exactly what we found everywhere in our search for a boat to sail around the world. We have been extremely criticized for our opinion on the cheap finish of $500,000 production boats. But the fact is, the quality is staggering. And this was more than confirmed to us again at the boat show in Germany "Boot Düsseldorf 2024"
.
I'm never buying a Sailboat but damn...I can not stop watching your videos...and now I need a sailboat!!! You bastard!
Love the rant! Wouldn’t spend that much on that boat even if I had it. Not a fan of the mahogany caves but I really hate generic waiting room furniture more.
You are amazing sir! Exceptional review + humour.
Thank you kindly!
Thanks for the movie love your channel.
Finally talking about this brand!
Love your take on the interior the lack of quality is evident even on video. Love your channel look forward to your videos
I own a Dufour Classic 38 built in 2002, solid build quality and proper construction in the interior that is holding up great after 2 atlantic crossings. Helped out a harbour neighbour last year in a 2008 dufour 40, panels was starting to peel and build quality was really lacking. It made me rethink my brand choice for my next boat when i decide to upgrade.
Wow! Good info thank you!
Tim don't apologize, just call it straight. Respect
Oyster, Hallberg-Rassy et al all use veneer, hence, laminate. The issue is whether marine grade plywood is used beneath. Personally, I love tan and grey. It is easy to add color. In fact, the interiors of too many cruiser’s boats look like a dotty old lady’s trinket filled parlor! Not a Darfour fan-boy, but stick to factual specifics. If you do not know what the counters are made of, and why, spare us the wacky speculation. Similarly for the wood finishing. On the other hand, it makes clear the caliber of your advice- an inadvertent service paid forward to your dear viewers.
Watching fro. New zealand great channel
You are absolutely right!!!
Finally, someone is calling them out the production S/V manufacturers. There is absolutely no way I would ever entertain owning these distasteful vessels! We have a custom Durbeck, manufactured in Bradington Florida 1970! She is incredible workmanship. Love your channel! 👍The Rant was heard!
OMG, Tim!!! I love this video. Rant away sir. As always, great reviews and speaking the truth.
Wish that other boat reviewers were as honest with their opinions instead of just trying to sell someone else's stuff. Thanks for posting and hope the manufactures listen to this. " Who hasn't won boat of the year?". Fantastic stuff man.
Solid rant.
20 years in the Caribbean on 3 boats and the biggest turn to cost savings by manufacturers was the recession of 2008. We have have certain criteria after our second boat, a Beneteau 393 when she came off a wave mid passage and snapped the forward cabin shelf in half. To sail properly and safely and comfortably you need weight. If the wind doesnt knock you around the swells will. Dufour i hear is in line to provide Sunsail/Moorings with some monohulls and from talking to the maintenance crews, they are worried. Our present boat is a 45 Freedom, heavy enough, no rigging to come down, furniture that is solid and can be re-finished and sails like a fish in water. I insist on Yanmar propulsion, will not entertain volvo or volvo saildrives and prefer a straight slab reefing into a stackpack. The simplest are the easiest. And yes, most Caribbean passages are usually less than a day, but when you scare your partner with weather helm, rounding up, going to the mast to unkink the inmast furler, poop the swim transom and have bouts of heel that bury the toe rail, you will not be long for making that final voyage. Yanmar, weight and slab reefing.
No worries about the "rant". I consider it more of an informative description of a very expensive boat, at least very expensive for me. Not that I could ever afford a new boat but I keep hoping one day I get a chance to go sailing. Thanks for the video. :)
wow sailor, thanks for the episode.
Commenting as ordered! Seriously though, keep up the good work!
Hey another great chapter.
I was wondering about that for a while
You read my mind, or whats left of it 😂
Thank you
Am so happy for you Tim, it obviously did you well to vent in this place :) I like you did, you are normally so enthusiastic to find the good side of every boat and be happy about them, if you don't "throw off the chain" sometimes (as my biker friends say in my language) it wouldn't look real.
I viewed some vids on this boat....and also couldn't believe the Ikea style office vibe....the led light around the main v-berth....omg....and the big white "wall" there.......they say they had a designer......should make him walk the plank.....in cement.
Thanks for the rant! And where are the handholds? I know cats don't heel (until they capsize) but they do still sway.
Good points here that I don't hear from the big sailing content creators who rely on manufacturer's advertising. Island Packet seems to still have American carpenters and woodworkers who build quality stuff.
Nice rant!
As the owner of a Sparkman Stevens Swan in which I have done 5 Atlantic crossings I have seen a lot of these boats being repaired in the Canaries, Cape Verdes, Caribbean and the Azores. I will stick with my old girl from the 70s. Last crossing from St Martin to Plymouth, 2 force 9s and 2 force 10s….broke nothing….
good video, appreciate this. I can't imagine dropping half a milly on this, but I'm definitely not the target market! I wouldn't call FP the Mercedes of cats. always enjoy your POV, keep up the good work!
I used to have a 76 DuFour 31. Loved it, but it seemed to oil can around the bow, But loved the boat, It was named Ana Veja. He named it after his mother and wife, then left them back in France.
I love the Storm Out😂😂😂 ….”I just can’t “
I enjoy listening to this rusty scupper. Great value 👍 n the product. The cow hell gets me every time. Life needs more cow bell
Sorry, I don't get the windows on the hull...didn't new catamaran models drop the escape hatch? What's the difference?
It's cool you'll say what you feel and think, and own it.
My jaw dropped when you started showing some of those high-end boats. I could live full-time on one of those and be completely comfortable.
I agree, the Dufour and many newer sailing yachts have Uber cheap interiors. You have to go to Italian Yachts and Swan Nautor yachts (to mention a few) for quality interiors.
Im in the market for a boat. Id very much prefer to buy a solid quality boat like an HR43, but there are 2 main obstacles, price and design. Newer boats have bigger cockpits and swim platforms, and for me thats a must have. The cheap ikea interior is a real problem.
I'm a guitar player (mostly electric), and a boater. The decline in quality is happening in all sectors. Yes, there are the outliers who make a good/superb product, by hand, but nowadays, it's the inverse. Quality is now the outlier.
Rant on Brother it is a good one to rant on , i"am with you . GOD bless Scot'S AND RANTS
Let it out, !!!! Truth always wins . Never apologize for straight talk.🌋🏝
I was wandering if you have done or thought about doing a video about the most common customizations people do to their boats for long term sailing
Well, a half million isn't buying as much these days. I live in the big trees, and we have snowy winters and hot summers. A log cabin on my street is asking, just over, a half million and it has a dirt driveway and no air conditioning. The dollar is shrinking.
I am not a sailor (yet) but Tim, I have watched more than enough of your videos to know that you could practically throw a dart at a listing page and get a better quality, prettier boat for a whole lot less cash!!
Right on. I would just go to the manufacturer website if I didn't wanted a critical, unbiased and objective review. Thanks and keep up the good work ✌.
I grew up sailing my dad's 35 Dufour. It was from the early 80s and it was a tank. Even when you stepped on the deck, it did not move. Solid glass hull, heavy and well built. I recently went to a boat show and the new Dufours I thought were junk compared to what I was used to. Come to think of it,, most of these production boats seemed really thin skined when it came to the hulls. I do remember all of the floor boards not fitting right on the Dufour. I also thought those telescopic Davits are going to have issues.
Great video. Compare this to a Catalina and there is no comparison- Catalina hands down!!
Not sure how my wife and I survived sailing the coast of Alaska for months at a time for 20 years in the 80's and 90's on our 29' Columbia sloop. I spent a year doing a complete overhaul of that boat. I used a map, compass and clock for navigation. There was no gps back then or sat weather. Those were good times. Thanks for the video
That is insane. You are right!
I agree 100% with your comment about pricing and value. $500k is a lot of money, the yacht builders not always deliver the right value for money.
Look at RM Yacht, at Saffier, … they are also ridiculously expensive.
Thank you for educating us.
I looked at the Dufour 37 at the Annapolis Boat Show two years ago and walked away with the same impression - It felt like an IKEA-furnished boat. Ended up buying a Hanse 388. Still a production boat, but believed it was better built than the Dufour. My partners and I are enjoying the boat, but I am weary of the laminate woodkwork bellow. I'm running a dehumidifier to keep things dry.
When I see you sitting there on your brown 70s furniture, I can certainly understand why you're out of step with anything that seems modern. You're old school, and that's perfectly fine. I simply can't help but smile. It's like sitting and listening to my old grandfather grumble about all the newfangled nonsense.
Fountaine Pajot as high end? lol! Rather the opposite I am afraid.
Rant on! Dufours are, in my experience, fast and flakey. At Antigua Sailing Week, the Dufours swept the podium, but the deck/hull joint leaked on our sail home to Guadeloupe and nearly sank the boat. Modern boat interiors are all Euro-tacky. This one looks especially cheap and chintzy, but none of them merit a 1/2 million $ IMHO. Good stuff, Tim
I have a Dufour 45 from 2009, the quality is ok, as good as any of the big production builders of that time, no imitation wood. This model was built as a racer/ cruiser, I wouldn’t have anything else, all manufacturers build and rig racer cruisers stronger than a cruiser for obvious reasons. I have had two occasions when I have requested information from the factory…… you might as well talk to a brick wall! I believe Dufour have changed ownership a couple of times since my boat was built. Others have confirmed their after sales service is hopeless, I would never buy a new one, even if they weren’t so butt ugly.
New boats have as much problems I hear, and cost double 😂
@@robvaneck5410 I just looked at a Hanse 388 and 460. The 460 is 3/4 million dollars and feels as though it just came out of an Ikea showroom. What the heck?
@@ThePyramidAgency get yourself a nice used boat, upgrade It.. and put the rest in gold silver bitcoin.
Wave and a hand from northeast Maryland🖐️ I thought that was a IKEA boat just saying good day to all from SV fellowship
On the subjet of new production boats, have you had a chance to look at the Viko S35?
That galley , 2 burner for 1/2 a mill & the hull ports ? Mind i had that view on Bavaria's for years BUT there new model . Nice ?