Hey guys, I forgot to mention that leaves on the trees will also cause reception problems in the spring/summer. While it isn't related to tropo it still may be a problem for many of you. If you live in an area with a lot of trees the best thing to do is to get a large, highly directional antenna and put it in a spot that has the "best clearing" in the direction of the broadcast towers. Higher isn't always better if a tree's leaves obstruct the signal path. The video of WPVI is from the Egrabow TH-cam channel. Check out their channel for more DXing videos. th-cam.com/users/FloridaTVDX 📡 Do you have reception problems? Consider an antenna recommendation from me below: 👉 www.antennamanpa.com/antenna-recommendations.html
So many trees around me but it seems in my case that I only lose the more distant channels when the leaves come out. In the winter I can pick up most of the DC stations from here in Baltimore but as soon as summer comes and atmospheric conditions and the leaves come out they are gone. I was wondering if once DC would switch to ATSC 3.0 that I will be able to get them back during the summer? Not sure if ATSC 3.0 will make that much of a difference in that regard?
There's been a number of times we've had to trim a tree because it's leaves blocked the satellite dish. The closer the tree is to the dish or antenna, the greater the problem.
@belly tripper Google “effect of leaves on TV signal,” as I did. There are tons of technical papers from well regarded sources on how trees can block RF signals. I tried linking some here, but unfortunately TH-cam didn’t like links in my comment.
Friggin FCC banning analog broadcast darn most beauracratic govt agency on my opinion least the CIA is useful and the CDC is listening to public outcry
@@dmonie5269 yeah that's gonna happen everywhere but besides the bad parts they do good stuff FCC could be disbanded and we'd live. Instead of one big agency regulating comms I'd like to see smaller agencies take on that job like have one agency for each region to avoid as much beaucracy.
@@goofyahhslimjackson1942 The problem with that concept is that committees accomplish nothing, and that is what you'd essentially have. Want proof? Just look at Congress... 👈😌😉😏
Yup I talk to Japan once on the ten meters Mars frequency when I fist got licensed. The operator I talked to was from New York New York and was at the US Military Base in Tokyo, Japan. A friend of mine that lives near me contacted him to right after I did. Were both in the North East US. In America's home town area.
I don't think this was a mistake. Various groups warned about the problems the repack would create and the FCC proceeded anyway - even calling the repack a "success." Maybe for the cell phone companies that bought the spectrum.
My all-time favorite experience of tropo was in july, 1989 when , for four evenings in a row i was receiving Channel 6 from Lincoln, Nebraska and KING 5 from Seattle, Washington from my location in King City, California.
@@supressorgrid Sad, that there are many people who will never try the AM band. The AM band by day and the AM band by night are vastly different. By day, AM signals can carry well beyond the line-of-sight, but the coverage of an AM station may vary drastically. In general, the lowest frequencies on the AM band can be heard for longer distances than stations higher on the band. Another factor is soil conductivity, which varies drastically from one place to another. The signal of a 1000-watt station in Kansas may carry further than the signal of a 50,000-watt station in Northwest Georgia or New York City. As day changes to night, the D layer of the ionosphere disappears, as ions are recaptured by nuclei. That allows MF signals to continue to the E-Layer, which reflect those signals back to Earth (at the higher end of the band, this starts a little before sunset, and briefly continues a little after sunrise). At night, some of your local AM stations can be drowned in interference, while on other channels, frequencies that had no signal during the day will have a signal at night, which can be relatively strong. This will be on almost all the channels between 640 and 890, and the channels between 1000 and 1220.
I miss the analog TV days because you could just turn the dial and see what's there. Now the channel mapping makes doing that a royal pain. As a kid, I woke up one Saturday morning and went to the TV for the weekly fill of Warner Bros. cartoons. But it was all in Spanish. Crystal clear. Actually I missed Channel 4 and landed on Channel 3 or 5 (yeah the really old days when the tuner was just a smooth tuning). At the top of the hour I eventually got the station ID with a 'X' prefix. Over time, I made a habit of discovering stations hundreds of miles away when the telltale 'squiggles' scrambled our local station.
@@efandmk3382 We're talking about the days where there were 4 or 5 local stations. DTV doesn't lend itself to 'surfing', either because of the virtual channel mechanism that requires scanning the band to find and map what's found. I've not stumbled across DTV stations that 'skip' 100's of miles the way old analog stations did.
Tyler, never say you're not a shrewd comedian. In the case of someone in Northern NJ that gets "tropo problems" it's either PIX or PIXels (the NYC CW station or the "No Signal" sign). PRICELESS!
I'm also in Northern New Jersey. I have a very good indoor antenna (on Tyler's recommendation). Everything comes in except Channel 7, WABC (ABC) and Channel 13, WNET (main PBS station). And that's with all the transmitters nearly in the same location and direction. Frustrating.
@belly tripper They usually don't, though they certainly can. Pine trees absorb more RF than deciduous trees. When winds are strong enough to make the branches move significantly, dynamic multipath may cause a signal to lose phase lock with a station's signal. Note that in this circumstance, it's the UHF stations that are most effected, the High-VHF less so, and Low-VHF rarely affected (I.e., the opposite of the usual assessment).
It has a lot to do with solar activity also. Radio operators know this very well. Long distance skip is usually available during increased solar activity. (SUNSPOTS)
I’ve had this happen a few times. I only had a vague idea that it was because of the weather. It’s exiting to learn the whole story and might be fun to try for those temporary extra channels.
When I was working at a brick & mortar electronics store, years ago, at the end of the summer there was an exceptional, huge week-long tropo event. Everybody got everything and then some. Suddenly, at the end of the week, we were deluged with people wanting new antennas because reception went from the whole TV dial to maybe a couple of channels. As much as I would’ve loved to sell a ton of new antennas, to meet commissions, I always prided myself on being honest and selling (or not selling) what was best for my customers. I explained to each person what was going on in the atmosphere, weather-related ducting, enhanced tropo, etc., and how it worked. I had to console them when everything suddenly and inevitably returned to a disappointing “normal”. Once they understood, they were thankful for the honesty, information, and not having to spend needless money.😎
I'll never forget the day of the analog TV shutdown, June 12, 2009. There was a rare e-skip event happening at the same time, and as soon as KYW-3 pulled the plug, KTBS-3 Shreveport (1,200 mi) jumped right in surprisingly clearly, as well as KXAS-5 Fort Worth, and channel 4 from Newfoundland/Labrador, 1,200 mi in the opposite direction. I'm glad I got pictures, because that will never happen again!
Yes ducting on all channels, and eskip, especially on low vhf. I have picked up southern and mid western stations around 1000 miles away on eskip. It's especially great for the 6 meter amateur band around 50 MHz, and troposphere on 2 meters and 70 centimeters. Ray W2CH.
When the leaves come out on the trees doesn't help either. This year a million flying cicadas are causing interference lol, ok, I am joking about that part but the leaves are a hindrance.
I agree, Leaves on the trees are a pain. As well as some TV stations who do not have a full time on scene engineer. Even with the tech issues at stations, I am hoping the new standard fixes the fade out or summer leaves outages. BTW: Keep up the good work Kid!!!!
Thanks to your videos I'm pulling in 41 channels fairly reliably in what all sources say is a dead spot (Wellston, Ohio). That's with two separate antennas of drastically different designs and quality and a combiner. Greatly appreciate your content!
Thanks for the explanation. I've been getting bad reception lately and wondered what was causing it. I remember getting those extra analog channels especially after a thunderstorm. I thought it was great then but not so much now.
It’s funny that better propagation sometimes results in worse reception. Never realized that this happens but it makes sense now that you’ve mentioned it!
The E-layer skip of the ionosphere is one of my favorite phenomenon. If you live in Austin, you'll be able to pick up Dallas TV stations on a hot summer day during solar noon. In 2020, when that incredible high pressure system in the sub-arctic moved across Canada, I was able to pick up CITY-FM from 1,000 miles away for a few minutes.
Good explanation. That is what us ham radio operators know as skip conditions, usually caused by sunspot activity. It allows some low power ham rigs to connect overseas at times. Of course a good directional antenna and a quality receiver help.
Every time I listen to this station I learn something new. Sometimes when a station that I receive directly across the bay with no mountains or major ship interference pixelate, I rescan and typically everything clears up . At first I thought it was the antenna or the cable or the booster but after testing two television sets that I knew were reliable and marking the calendar as to the time of these occurrences taking place and then going and checking to see if the sun had any bursts of energy hitting the Earth I came to the conclusion that I needed to listen to and educate myself by watching your videos on TH-cam. You confirmed what I suspected and I thank you for such a professional and educational review.
Was wondering why my TV was picking up a station a state away (the transmitter is like 86 miles from my house) in almost the opposite direction my antenna is pointed.
Instead of losing channels, I get more. Many channels that come in are in frequencies that aren't occupied by my local stations. I get WFXB 43, WGHP 8, WYDO 14, WXII 12, WNCT 9, WSKY 4, WCTI 12, WDBJ 7 (which runs over WITN), WSET 13 and WBTW 13. ........the con is that WFXB runs over local WLXI 43, and usually cancels each other out.
I remember a cartoon from a radio magazine back in days of Vietnam. It showed a radio operator in the jungle telling his superior officer "I'm sorry, Sir, but all the skips are in and all I can get is a pizza truck in New Jersey."
I asked my self how i am getting reception of far away neighbouring states programs,now i know. Thanks,Tyler it' s true you and iItaly guy are only ones that tells what is all about,but i understand you better.
Ditto for FM! Oh, I just bought the antenna you showed in your video. Oh, TV skip is quite common on channels 2, 3, 12 and 13 late night to early morning. My ultimate skip was channel 2, from Washington DC to Montreal Quebec, at 5PM. Thank you for a great review. Knew these problems would occur on DTV.
That explains, maybe five years back, I started losing a handful of local stations around 23:15. That same interval, I re-scanned channel-by-channel, and picked up five NYC channels clearly. I've never picked up those channels before, as they're 165 miles away. I checked five hours later, and the effect had abated. I get this a lot on the AM dial, but never before on TV.
I live in western Mass. Back in the analog days, we used to be able to get channels 2,4,5,7,9,11& 13 from NYC reasonably well from May until the end of August( with some snow and static) each year using our rooftop antenna.. Always wondered why that used to happen, since we could not get any Boston stations due to the Worcester hills to the east of us.
As a long time TV-Dxer since the late 60's I have over 267 stations logged from 38 States, 3 Canadian Provinces, 2 Mexican States and 3 countries. It is was a lot of fun, I haven't done much since I am now in an apartment so no giant tv antenna. But I do have 96 pictures of the the TV screen at a station's ID time and my logbook to remind me.
Thank you for this explanation. It just so happens that I've been experiencing this lately and it's good to know why. It never really happened before in the summer and unfortunately, it's only with my favorite channels here in south central PA. Seems to happen more during the day and night is fine.
Mine seems to go out in late afternoon I layed metal clippers near where antenna attached to tuner and it comes in if I tape it on won't work but if I lay it on cord works great weird but works
Excellent and timely information as I see the same thing here now on a station that is normally rock-solid. I have three tuners on my system (because I wanted to try them at some point) and found my Amazon Recast, for example is less tolerant of these signal issues than my AirTV or my HDHomerun. There isn't a lot of difference but enough to make me change tuners every now and then.
I don't remember the season (probably spring or summer), but in 2005, I received KHBS 40 in Fort Smith, AR and KHOG-TV 29 in Fayetteville from Tulsa, OK. I initially falsely believed my own ABC affiliate (KTUL Channel 8) was somehow appearing on a UHF channel, but then I noticed it was a different station entirely. I was able to see _Nightline_ and _Jimmy Kimmel Live_ an hour early because back then, KTUL delayed those shows by an hour to run syndicated sitcom repeats. I don't remember any adjacent-channel interference with UPN affiliate KTFO 41 (now MyNetworkTV affiliate KMYT-TV), probably because of the distance.
So I seem to be having the reverse issue. My channels seem to go out early in the morning (2am-7am) and eventually come back around 7am and are fine the rest of the day. I live in Central Texas and the past few weeks have been 80-90 degrees but really humid... like Florida-style humid. I used to live in Florida and even earlier I lived in the Republic of Panama, so I have 1st hand experience with humidity. So I'm not sure if it's this Tropo situation or if it's something else. I know our AM channels mentioned they don't boost their signals until the Sun rises so we may pickup AM radio on the same station from Mexico ... but is this a possibility with TV signals as well?
Back when I grew up in the San Fernando Valley back in the analog days, I would pick up all of the San Diego channels in the Summer due to tropo skip. Pretty much every channel on the VHF band was occupied with something, and occasionally, the San Diego channels came in as clearly as the Los Angeles stations. When I would start to see interference on channels 2 and 4, and occasionally 5, I knew that Sporadic E skip was in, and I would start to check channel 3, and there was usually something there from another distant city somewhere, depending on where the sporadic E cloud was. Once or twice every Summer, I could receive KARD channel 3 out of Wichita, Kansas, which was a CBS affiliate at the time, and I could watch CBS programming three hours before the shows would come on for the west coast! I miss analog TV for that reason. It was much more straightforward what the interference was, and it did look like the interference lines that you showed, so I knew just by looking at it that it was Sporadic E skip. Sporadic E skip also happens in the FM radio band. A few years ago in the Antelope Valley part of Los Angeles county, I was picking up FM stations in Yakima, Washington, and two weeks after that, I was picking up Calgary, Alberta stations, all via E skip! If you enjoy receiving things like this, it really helps to be in an area where the local stations are weaker, like the area where I was. Just a few years ago, I was driving in Loveland, Colorado, and radio stations were coming in on frequencies that weren't occupied locally. I pulled over and listened, and found that I was listening to stations from Louisiana!
Lucky for us Canadians is there is not as many channels. It is fun getting some of the diginets for a few hours that we don’t always get on the clear channels!
Yeah I feel bad for you guys. I'm thinking at some point the broadcast networks will realize there is good money potential in leasing some of their spectrum to subchannels.
Another problem of the FCC repack is that TV Stations that were on UHF were moved to Hi-VHF like ABC WVNY that was on Analog UHF channel 22 since 1968. When the Digital transition happened they were moved to channel 13.1 right next to our local 12.1 and I lost them. Now they’re on channel 7.1 and are coming in just barely. The FCC sold out millions of people with their repack.
Tropospheric ducting , as Hams know it or "skip" as CB users call it is a lot of fun to play with if you can figure out which direction its running WHILE it's running in that direction . We Ham operators LOVE it. I was "talking" via keyed code the other day to a contact in New Zealand , an old SOCOM buddy. We can almost never reach each other.
Tyler, I have actually in past years seen our local PBS station go off in morning hours when Tropo reception was happening. I would check for TV channels coming from Baltimore and DC, sure enough TV stations were skipping in that we normally could not receive. Our PBS TV station was on the same channel as one out of DC. That was before the FCC sold off the patch of Channels.
Had this happen yesterday. Exact symptoms. Still having issues. Antennas have been great up until yesterday. Also stopped raining today. And a big tree ...
@@AntennaMan Since we are back to getting rain it has improved. Trying to find an old thread. Installed a Diplexer for a VHF and UHF antenna and it's made a ton of difference for reception. This was weeks ago. Still not sure how to find the weather phenomenon map to see what the troposphere is like in DFW. I miss the snow and lines on TV don't like digitized green.
Back in the CB radio days, we used to call that "when the skip is rolling." You'd get tons of static, and would have a hard time reaching people close by, but could pick up CB operators a state away.
My mom always used to tell me about a rare skip she experienced. It was early morning, June 7, 1968. The morning after the RFK assassination. She had heard about the assassination on a radio talk show, and decided to look for more information. For some reason, she decided to check on the TV. The local, Winnipeg channels had signed off for the night. While flipping the tuner, she came across KSTP-TV, channel 5, in St. Paul, MN, which was broadcasting replays of the assassination. Our TV at the time was a 1956 Admiral Super Cascode B&W, with a rabbit-ear antenna. We did not normally receive KSTP-TV, the Twin Cities' NBC affiliate at the time, but it came in, clear as a bell, that night. All we had was those rabbit-ears, but the Admiral's clear and sensitive, twin triode front end and gated AGC may have also had a bearing, along with a rare tropo.
Back on monday (6/7), I was driving back to Baltimore, MD from Norfolk, Va. Around 4:30-5am the sun was starting to come up and I was passing through Tappahannock, Va and I figured i'd check out the FM radio stations in the area. Much to my surprise, almost every frequency had something playing. I was receiving stations from Baltimore and hagerstown MD (roughly 130~ and 190~ miles away respectively), Delaware (probably 100~ in a straight shot), A station from the Shenandoah valley, and many others while the local stations were pretty much non-existent. I've never seen anything like that. Is there a specific time of day that this occurs, or is it random? Thanks
A couple weeks ago I had an incident with FM radio reception in my car. It was a sunny, mostly-clear day, driving in an area where normally I'd have no problem picking it up clearly. On that day, however, other stations were intruding into the signal. I emailed the station manager about it, and his tech said that it was probably tropospheric ducting. Things went back to normal the next day.
To add to your explanation, if interference from adjacent markets (e.g. nyc & swb or Hartford) then troop. If interference from a much further away market (e.g. WESH Orlando in NYC) then eskip. Given frequencies of DTV, Tropo should occur way more frequently than eskip. Tyler, are you a member of WTFDA?
I remember the thrill of picking up a Canadian station broadcasting in French at my home in Rock Island, IL. The antenna wasn't that tall. For a couple of minutes, I watched "Star Trek." French didn't make "Spock's Brain" any better. I assume the station was in Quebec.
June 15th as I write this and the last two days my regular stations that never have a issue are constantly choppy, two different tv’s in different locations around the house same thing. Grrr! Thanks for the video.
The loss of channel space from the repack was stupid- in Sacramento we often get stations from San Francisco during the summer, but a few of them no longer come in because they were moved to the same frequency as some low-power stations here- and often they end up cancelling each other out so we get neither the local nor far-off station! I guess ATSC 3.0 will fit more channels inside one frequency; about 4 stations are going to be broadcasting ATSC 3.0 from just one channel here soon, not sure if that will include their subchannels also.
Thank you antenna man I always suspected this because I've noticed it happening on my TV and on FM radio reception I Was preparing to call in super-powered investigators to see what was going on however I knew that the knowledge that I had would be adequate to resolve this problem thanks once again for your enlightenment
I live in Chicago and one day during the summer I was picking up Milwaukee TV stations. I asked the engineer at the radio station that I worked at and he told me about troppo.
This actually happened to me a couple of days ago I lived in the Rio Grande Valley I picked up two tv stations from Monterrey, Mexico which is out of the market area. Like in my area it’s normal for us to pick up tv channels from Reynosa and Matamoros.
One time in 1978, KELO channel 11 Sioux Falls, SD was coming in on channel 3 (overpowering WRCB 3 from Chattanooga, TN, normally a strong clear station) when I lived in Cherokee County, AL and it would do this every now and then. It can change frequency and interfere with other stations on different frequencies as well as the same channel.
I've observed tropospheric ducting on the NOAA Weather Radio band, which operates on frequencies not too far below VHF TV Channel 7. I normally receive NOAA Weather Radio broadcasts from Champaign, Illinois (WXJ-76) and Newport, Indiana (KZZ-27). However, during a Trop event, I briefly received the NOAA Weather Radio station in Indianapolis, Indiana, which is on the same frequency as the Champaign, Illinois NOAA station, even though I live considerably closer to Champaign than Indianapolis.
Yes, I too experienced interference. I call it radio frequency echoing. I had double my channel input from this echoing. So I checked out my channels. And found the double channel frequencies. Isolated the bad channel and locked on to the good channel. Deleted interference channel. And held on to the good channel. I was surprised at the stations I was getting from a tri-State aspect. I live in NYC, but I’m in the Bronx. Which is the county connected to New York State. I am also near N.J. and Connecticut. I was able to get stations from 3 states on my Antenna recommend from your channel. Mind you, I live on the top floor in the house I am renting for. My antenna was the one with one long VHF element and two vertical UHF elements. With a one foot by two foot vertical grid behind the UHF elements. This is an indoor and outdoor antenna. It’s in my room pointed in the proper direction on top of my mini fridge as a base. Although I would get more channels if I turned off my mini fridge due to electro magnetic interference from the fridge. I don’t mind the few channels I don’t get when my fridge keeps my food and drinks cold.
Fred ... while the fridge motor might cause problems, it's the metal cabinet causing you the most grief. Mote the antenna on top of a wooden cabinet for better results.... or prop it between 2 shelves in a closet using a piece of cardboard.
Back in the late 1970s I was able to get TV stations from as far away as Hastings, Nebraska and Sioux Falls, South Dakota from my home in Armstrong County, Pennsylvania. I was also getting "skip" from Orange County, California on the Butler County, PA fire frequency.
I experience t.v. signal strength loss even before spring and foliage leafs out. This happens in groups of channels. In my area I get 57.1, 57.2 and 57.3 in winter...no problem. Then about now in February....signal strength diminishes. It is consistent loss up until about the following November. I know it's not leaves nor troposphere bounce. Day or night makes no difference. Signal is gone. And on other groups of channels as well. I have signal amplifiers on my antenna. No improvement. I have heard (rumor) that certain t.v. stations reduce the strength of their broadcast signal during times of the year. This would be my only conclusion. These stations broadcast from about 30 miles distant. What are your ideas about what's happening?
Years ago, I always enjoyed tropo events. Living in upstate New York, it was fun to see distant TV and FM stations. I only had it affect low band VHF and the FM band. Did you ever see it on high band VHF or UHF?
Today I noticed 5 new channels on the T.V after it got hot. I didn’t even scan these channels in (MeTv, Start, Decades, Movies!, and H&I). They’re in a different state. Pretty weird.
Broadcasting signals are always better in the winter than the summer. When I was a kid, I could get AM radio stations a thousand miles away after dark during the winter months.
Oh, thanks! I’m in Mid-Michigan, and I rescanned for channels and was able to pick up Fox 66 as well. However, last night I turned on the TV and couldn’t receive most of my local channels, however some came through without issue. I guess this explains it
After researching antennas (prior to finding your TH-cam Channel), I purchased the Antennas Direct 8 Bowtie antenna, needed UHF only and wanted option to move panels for more channel options, but didn't take into account we live in a highly, highly wooded area, so frustrated (saw your video on this model unfortunately after I made the purchase). The Antenna is as high as my husband can currently get it, 20 ft off the ground now, should I try to elevate more (which would require me renting a lift) or did I just waste $150? Currently get all the local channels that we wanted, but too blurry to watch. All are pixelated/drop signal.
I used to DX TV, but after digital went effect, the DX went away around here. I even got some double hop into Quebec and Ohio in the 1970s from the Northern OR Coast. I still DX FM though. Even FM HD does skip. I don't even have a VHF antenna there days, other than my FM Yagi, as I have not seen any distant TV skip. UHF can skip a bit, but the signal never gets high enough to lock. Maybe 3.0 might be better. Lots of Tropo in the Midwest and South. Very common with my friend in Illinois.
3:50 reminds me of this one scenario that I witnessed last year. May of last year I had to rescan my TV because one of my local stations switched to a different frequency, I rescanned and a channel down from Wichita falls that I normally would not get since it's a hundred miles away, I was able to pick up the signal for a couple hours due to tropo.
I don’t have problems here as much in Huntington Beach California, but the problem is that I can’t pick up ABC and Fox due to them being transmitted in low VHF. How do I get those back with a indoor antenna? Great info though.
I have a DVR tv tuner USB in my computer to record shows and convert VHS to DVD. I don't have anything but free over-the-air TV. My outdoor aerial goes to my computer tv tuner and also my regular tv. My aerial picks up about 75 channels, but lately, NOT the one I do most DVR recording on. It would fade in and out, causing a corrupt DVR file. I went up there and got it to go about 6 inches higher. (It's a 2 story house, so it's not easy to mess with the aerial). What a difference just 6 inches makes. That channel comes in perfect now and digital rescan got me a couple new channels.
Tyler, Thanks, I was wondering what was happening and checking my antennae set ups. The issue was on one TV only. Each TV has a separate antennae setup.
@@AntennaMan I think wind could be another factor, causes antenna's and tree limbs to move. if more than one station is being received on the same frequency makes it difficult for the tuner to decode the signal. I'm thinking the FCC should have not required small market TV stations to repack if they have tower locations 100 miles outside the suburbs of large and medium markets because cellular would have a smaller demand for bandwidth in rural areas.
Tropo last week allowed me to pick up the northern Danish DAB network from the UK every night for a few nights on nothing more than a telescopic aerial and a sensitive DAB radio. Have also picked up Dutch, Norwegian, German and French digital radio services (would likely also have picked up Belgian services but they use the same frequencies as strong multiplexes here so I haven't got them yet).
I live in a condo and we have a common roof top antenna. We lose signal in the fall and winter and it doesn't comes back until around the summer solstice. Our unit is on the west side of the building and our indoor antenna needs to be oriented towards the east so that doesn't work well either.
I'm surprised the Antenna Man didn't bother to explain the differences in antenna gain, backside rejection, and an antenna rotor. In the Analog days, antenna rotors were fairly common to eliminate ghosting from strong reflections arriving off axis of the main signal. Had to check his website. Under accessories, there is an antenna rotator listed.
Also I find the leaves on big oak trees on neighbors property. I also reduce the connection of splitters in the the summer to 2 tv's most used. Rarely pixilates Boston to Rhode Island
Now I know why, when I rescan I get double channels, thought it was just a quirk, would just block the duplicates, thinking they were just the same channels repeated.
So the three-letter word we left in charge of broadcast signals made short work of TVD xing multiple times in a row and has expressed wanting to turn a.m. and possibly FM digital as well now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
I used to look forward to this happening during the humid summer months especially at night when I was a kid in the 80's. I lived in Philadelphia a few miles from the Roxborough antenna farm on Domino Lane and if the atmospheric conditions were right I could pick up stations from Lancaster, Pa, New York City or Baltimore,MD. I once even got a station from Ohio. I miss the days of analog tv.
We also had a tv service called Prism which used a microwave system like the ones tv stations used for live shots and we could pick up the microwave ENG and STL feeds from the 3,6 and 10 plus some satellite channels.
I’ve been watching WTMJ NBC 4 Milwaukee solely because I’m able to pick it up 108 miles away from Milwaukee in NW Indiana. There’s also a big flat Lake Michigan to help carry signals. I do listen to 620 WTMJ to get updates on the Brewers when I’m in the car, and hope they’re losing.
Hey Tyler. It's weather related. I have antenna tv and a TMobile wifi hotspot. They both have these issues at the same time. The sun just started acting up again. But it supposed to be better propagation for my Grundig shortwave. Last resort, AM radio late night you get everything.
My problems are with RF channels 25 and 27 here in metro NYC. Virtual channels 5 and 9, on those channels, are lousy. Other higher UHF channels are finely are the VHF Hi. Ever since the repack and loss off 600 MHz, reception has declined.
Yeah the WNYW and WWOR have lower powered UHF signals. I don't recall if it was the FCC repack or the move to the WTC that caused this to happen but you're right the signals of 5 and 9 are horrible.
As far as I know all TV signals are horizontally polarized. I have seen people put the antenna the wrong way. A bow tie will be somewhat effective this way but others just don't work. I would like to see a video on this.
I've looked at that tropo site several times over the last 10 years or so. I wonder though, if the ATSC 3.0 has lots better reception, how much will it matter? Will tried-n-true channels be enough for most folks? I suppose doing a channel scan in 5-10 years will be more productive than now and some people will be working to get the new more distant channels in solid.
Check out my ATSC 3.0 video playlist to see how the reception compares. Note there's more than a channel scan for people to get NextGen broadcasts. They need a whole new tuner.
My experience this summer? When it's quite cloudy, like it might rain, reception of a distant channel improves. However, because we get foggy mornings every now and then at the beginning of summer, my reception gets so crappy that the tv is unwatchable up to 12 hours a day...no doubt my crappy digital to analog converter is a contributing factor.
Try laying metal on cord near antenna to tv or tuner if I remove metal station won't come in.It took lots of experiments finding proper weight on cord like I said next to where you out antenna wire or tuner.Toenail clippers work best 😜
Tropo skip especially is not from mid May-early July on the VHF Lo band and July and August on the VHF Hi band. Last summer here in AZ on my old 13" Philco CRT, I was picking up Cuba, Honduras, and Columbia on channels 2,3, and 4 using just rabbit ears for an antenna. The two mentioned Central American countries are still NSTC and are not planning to go digital according to WRTH. Cuba is suppose to in 2023 and I'm not sure about Columbia. An incredibly cool time of the year!!
For the past 3+ weeks I have struggled horribly to maintain signal on WSAZ (NBC) and WQCW (CW) both out of Huntington, WV. They are 80 miles away though I can't pick up ANYTHING from the Cincinnati market, still for 5 years I have had very reliable and strong signal for these 2 stations except during brief tropo events. But it seems every day for the past 3 weeks, the signals (especially NBC) have been a grab bag of minimally average and nigh non existent. It started with NBC bumping down to a mediocre 22db average while CW stayed at its ideal 26-27db range, now NBC barely manages 20db most the time and CW is chaotically variable between 21db and 24db, with frequent dips below. I don't think it is tropo since that would not last this long. But when any kind of tropo even is present it utterly destroys the signals now, can't watch anything for the whole day. I even called the engineer team for the station (they share the same tower) and was told they were still at full power. More confusing still, is WVAH (former Fox channel) still attempts to come in from 97 miles away, but of course it is nowhere near stable, usually brief stills fluttering throughout the day. Stations I have had and loved for years, now suddenly too weak to watch regularly, with nothing in the way of an explanation. I unhooked my antenna. I am done with this. Sorry, need to blow off some steam here.
Hey guys, I forgot to mention that leaves on the trees will also cause reception problems in the spring/summer. While it isn't related to tropo it still may be a problem for many of you. If you live in an area with a lot of trees the best thing to do is to get a large, highly directional antenna and put it in a spot that has the "best clearing" in the direction of the broadcast towers. Higher isn't always better if a tree's leaves obstruct the signal path.
The video of WPVI is from the Egrabow TH-cam channel. Check out their channel for more DXing videos.
th-cam.com/users/FloridaTVDX
📡 Do you have reception problems? Consider an antenna recommendation from me below:
👉 www.antennamanpa.com/antenna-recommendations.html
So many trees around me but it seems in my case that I only lose the more distant channels when the leaves come out. In the winter I can pick up most of the DC stations from here in Baltimore but as soon as summer comes and atmospheric conditions and the leaves come out they are gone. I was wondering if once DC would switch to ATSC 3.0 that I will be able to get them back during the summer? Not sure if ATSC 3.0 will make that much of a difference in that regard?
There's been a number of times we've had to trim a tree because it's leaves blocked the satellite dish. The closer the tree is to the dish or antenna, the greater the problem.
Glad you added that, because I was going to say that I lose a few “fringe” stations once the leaves appear on the trees.
@belly tripper Google “effect of leaves on TV signal,” as I did. There are tons of technical papers from well regarded sources on how trees can block RF signals. I tried linking some here, but unfortunately TH-cam didn’t like links in my comment.
@@lonniewilliamson2569 I have my tree topped every few years. I wonder why others don't do likewise?
The FCC as usual has no interest in "cord cutters" and continues to do us a great disservice.Bought and paid for no doubt.
Got that right!
Friggin FCC banning analog broadcast darn most beauracratic govt agency on my opinion least the CIA is useful and the CDC is listening to public outcry
@@goofyahhslimjackson1942 CIA and CDC are just as corrupt.
@@dmonie5269 yeah that's gonna happen everywhere but besides the bad parts they do good stuff FCC could be disbanded and we'd live. Instead of one big agency regulating comms I'd like to see smaller agencies take on that job like have one agency for each region to avoid as much beaucracy.
@@goofyahhslimjackson1942 The problem with that concept is that committees accomplish nothing, and that is what you'd essentially have. Want proof? Just look at Congress... 👈😌😉😏
This Is Why Us ham operators or CB users have so much fun talking long-distance.
Yup I talk to Japan once on the ten meters Mars frequency when I fist got licensed. The operator I talked to was from New York New York and was at the US Military Base in Tokyo, Japan. A friend of mine that lives near me contacted him to right after I did. Were both in the North East US. In America's home town area.
@@VickyGeagan That wasn't likely as a result of "ducting" at all at such a long distance. Perhaps that wasn't in the answer pool.
I talked from Sacramento California to Honolulu just about a month ago
@@richardjohnson5054 What band? HF, VHF, UHF...? People do that everyday. That is over 2400 miles. If it was HF, it was unlikely that is was ducting.
@belly tripper Where's the beef?
The FCC has made a number of big mistakes over the years. Sometimes I don't know who is running the show over there.
I don't think this was a mistake. Various groups warned about the problems the repack would create and the FCC proceeded anyway - even calling the repack a "success." Maybe for the cell phone companies that bought the spectrum.
AT&T and a handful of big tech conglomerates
My all-time favorite experience of tropo was in july, 1989 when , for four evenings in a row i was receiving Channel 6 from Lincoln, Nebraska and KING 5 from Seattle, Washington from my location in King City, California.
We are also approaching solar max. Great stuff for RF nerds like me.
We are by no means anywhere near solar maximum. But sporadic E is a very cool thing for TV DXers.
AM radio propagation really great last few nights.
Doug, we are on the solar upswing, but we're just coming out of solar minimum, so it will be a slow 11 years ahead.
@@supressorgrid
Sad, that there are many people who will never try the AM band.
The AM band by day and the AM band by night are vastly different.
By day, AM signals can carry well beyond the line-of-sight, but the coverage of an AM station may vary drastically.
In general, the lowest frequencies on the AM band can be heard for longer distances than stations higher on the band.
Another factor is soil conductivity, which varies drastically from one place to another. The signal of a 1000-watt station in Kansas may carry further than the signal of a 50,000-watt station in Northwest Georgia or New York City.
As day changes to night, the D layer of the ionosphere disappears, as ions are recaptured by nuclei. That allows MF signals to continue to the E-Layer, which reflect those signals back to Earth (at the higher end of the band, this starts a little before sunset, and briefly continues a little after sunrise).
At night, some of your local AM stations can be drowned in interference, while on other channels, frequencies that had no signal during the day will have a signal at night, which can be relatively strong. This will be on almost all the channels between 640 and 890, and the channels between 1000 and 1220.
We are at the start of a new solar cycle, and the sunspot numbers have been historically low for the past couple of years.
I miss the analog TV days because you could just turn the dial and see what's there. Now the channel mapping makes doing that a royal pain. As a kid, I woke up one Saturday morning and went to the TV for the weekly fill of Warner Bros. cartoons. But it was all in Spanish. Crystal clear. Actually I missed Channel 4 and landed on Channel 3 or 5 (yeah the really old days when the tuner was just a smooth tuning). At the top of the hour I eventually got the station ID with a 'X' prefix. Over time, I made a habit of discovering stations hundreds of miles away when the telltale 'squiggles' scrambled our local station.
If you live near Mexico its Spanish. If you live near Canada its English or French.
You can still just flip around and see what's on. But isn't that kind of a pain with 210 channels?
@@efandmk3382 We're talking about the days where there were 4 or 5 local stations. DTV doesn't lend itself to 'surfing', either because of the virtual channel mechanism that requires scanning the band to find and map what's found. I've not stumbled across DTV stations that 'skip' 100's of miles the way old analog stations did.
Tyler, never say you're not a shrewd comedian. In the case of someone in Northern NJ that gets "tropo problems" it's either PIX or PIXels (the NYC CW station or the "No Signal" sign). PRICELESS!
I can't get Fox 5 for beans
I'm also in Northern New Jersey. I have a very good indoor antenna (on Tyler's recommendation). Everything comes in except Channel 7, WABC (ABC) and Channel 13, WNET (main PBS station). And that's with all the transmitters nearly in the same location and direction. Frustrating.
Thanks so much for sharing this. We live Delaware/Maryland/PA area and yes we are having this same issue. Appreciate you making this video!
No problem!
@belly tripper
They usually don't, though they certainly can.
Pine trees absorb more RF than deciduous trees.
When winds are strong enough to make the branches move significantly, dynamic multipath may cause a signal to lose phase lock with a station's signal.
Note that in this circumstance, it's the UHF stations that are most effected, the High-VHF less so, and Low-VHF rarely affected (I.e., the opposite of the usual assessment).
It has a lot to do with solar activity also. Radio operators know this very well. Long distance skip is usually available during increased solar activity. (SUNSPOTS)
It depends on the frequency
Solar has very little to do with UHF propagation
@@nutsackmania Actually it can. UHF television can sometimes be seen for hundreds of miles farther than the broadcast areas.
A whole new dimension added to the Over The Air spectrum reception challenges. Thank you, good information!
I’ve had this happen a few times. I only had a vague idea that it was because of the weather. It’s exiting to learn the whole story and might be fun to try for those temporary extra channels.
When I was working at a brick & mortar electronics store, years ago, at the end of the summer there was an exceptional, huge week-long tropo event. Everybody got everything and then some. Suddenly, at the end of the week, we were deluged with people wanting new antennas because reception went from the whole TV dial to maybe a couple of channels. As much as I would’ve loved to sell a ton of new antennas, to meet commissions, I always prided myself on being honest and selling (or not selling) what was best for my customers. I explained to each person what was going on in the atmosphere, weather-related ducting, enhanced tropo, etc., and how it worked. I had to console them when everything suddenly and inevitably returned to a disappointing “normal”. Once they understood, they were thankful for the honesty, information, and not having to spend needless money.😎
I'll never forget the day of the analog TV shutdown, June 12, 2009. There was a rare e-skip event happening at the same time, and as soon as KYW-3 pulled the plug, KTBS-3 Shreveport (1,200 mi) jumped right in surprisingly clearly, as well as KXAS-5 Fort Worth, and channel 4 from Newfoundland/Labrador, 1,200 mi in the opposite direction. I'm glad I got pictures, because that will never happen again!
Yes, I've seen that video. Really cool!
Yes ducting on all channels, and eskip,
especially on low vhf. I have picked up
southern and mid western stations
around 1000 miles away on eskip.
It's especially great for the 6 meter
amateur band around 50 MHz, and
troposphere on 2 meters and 70
centimeters. Ray W2CH.
Great explanation. I think its the same as Ducting in the ham radio world.
Yea, it's at the top of the diagram at 1:15.
@@barneymm2204 Good eyes and attention. I didn't notice that. LOL. I am getting old....
When the leaves come out on the trees doesn't help either. This year a million flying cicadas are causing interference lol, ok, I am joking about that part but the leaves are a hindrance.
Yup - when the woods across the road from house leaf out I lose out.
I agree, Leaves on the trees are a pain. As well as some TV stations who do not have a full time on scene engineer.
Even with the tech issues at stations, I am hoping the new standard fixes the fade out or summer leaves outages. BTW: Keep up the good work Kid!!!!
Living next to one of the great lakes summer time nights are great for reception, especially the Canadian stations.
I hope my ears aren’t lying to me when I didn’t hear anything about a flat antenna in this video. I’m glad you are evolving as a channel.
Thanks to your videos I'm pulling in 41 channels fairly reliably in what all sources say is a dead spot (Wellston, Ohio). That's with two separate antennas of drastically different designs and quality and a combiner. Greatly appreciate your content!
Thanks for the explanation. I've been getting bad reception lately and wondered what was causing it. I remember getting those extra analog channels especially after a thunderstorm. I thought it was great then but not so much now.
It’s funny that better propagation sometimes results in worse reception. Never realized that this happens but it makes sense now that you’ve mentioned it!
I tend to find reception improves during the summer. The tropo helps me get in US stations.
I get better reception on my low-VHF RF2 channel when there’s high humidity in the summer. In the winter, I get nothing!
The E-layer skip of the ionosphere is one of my favorite phenomenon. If you live in Austin, you'll be able to pick up Dallas TV stations on a hot summer day during solar noon.
In 2020, when that incredible high pressure system in the sub-arctic moved across Canada, I was able to pick up CITY-FM from 1,000 miles away for a few minutes.
Good explanation. That is what us ham radio operators know as skip conditions, usually caused by sunspot activity. It allows some low power ham rigs to connect overseas at times. Of course a good directional antenna and a quality receiver help.
Every time I listen to this station I learn something new. Sometimes when a station that I receive directly across the bay with no mountains or major ship interference pixelate, I rescan and typically everything clears up . At first I thought it was the antenna or the cable or the booster but after testing two television sets that I knew were reliable and marking the calendar as to the time of these occurrences taking place and then going and checking to see if the sun had any bursts of energy hitting the Earth I came to the conclusion that I needed to listen to and educate myself by watching your videos on TH-cam. You confirmed what I suspected and I thank you for such a professional and educational review.
That is why it is called sporadic E. DXing used to be great fun on VHF as well as UHF
Was wondering why my TV was picking up a station a state away (the transmitter is like 86 miles from my house) in almost the opposite direction my antenna is pointed.
Instead of losing channels, I get more. Many channels that come in are in frequencies that aren't occupied by my local stations. I get WFXB 43, WGHP 8, WYDO 14, WXII 12, WNCT 9, WSKY 4, WCTI 12, WDBJ 7 (which runs over WITN), WSET 13 and WBTW 13.
........the con is that WFXB runs over local WLXI 43, and usually cancels each other out.
I remember a cartoon from a radio magazine back in days of Vietnam. It showed a radio operator in the jungle telling his superior officer "I'm sorry, Sir, but all the skips are in and all I can get is a pizza truck in New Jersey."
I asked my self how i am getting reception of far away neighbouring states programs,now i know. Thanks,Tyler it' s true you and iItaly guy are only ones that tells what is all about,but i understand you better.
Ditto for FM! Oh, I just bought the antenna you showed in your video. Oh, TV skip is quite common on channels 2, 3, 12 and 13 late night to early morning. My ultimate skip was channel 2, from Washington DC to Montreal Quebec, at 5PM. Thank you for a great review. Knew these problems would occur on DTV.
Come to southern Spain, especially Cadiz, Malaga and our coast is almost always with this problem between Spain, Morocco, Algeria and Portugal.
That explains, maybe five years back, I started losing a handful of local stations around 23:15. That same interval, I re-scanned channel-by-channel, and picked up five NYC channels clearly. I've never picked up those channels before, as they're 165 miles away. I checked five hours later, and the effect had abated. I get this a lot on the AM dial, but never before on TV.
Yeah that's as tropo
By the way, this is your most informative video thus far -- which you already know..
I live in western Mass. Back in the analog days, we used to be able to get channels 2,4,5,7,9,11& 13 from NYC reasonably well from May until the end of August( with some snow and static) each year using our rooftop antenna.. Always wondered why that used to happen, since we could not get any Boston stations due to the Worcester hills to the east of us.
Foxonian ... a couple of those have their towers across the way in NJ.
As a long time TV-Dxer since the late 60's I have over 267 stations logged from 38 States, 3 Canadian Provinces, 2 Mexican States and 3 countries. It is was a lot of fun, I haven't done much since I am now in an apartment so no giant tv antenna. But I do have 96 pictures of the the TV screen at a station's ID time and my logbook to remind me.
Thank you for this explanation. It just so happens that I've been experiencing this lately and it's good to know why. It never really happened before in the summer and unfortunately, it's only with my favorite channels here in south central PA. Seems to happen more during the day and night is fine.
Mine seems to go out in late afternoon I layed metal clippers near where antenna attached to tuner and it comes in if I tape it on won't work but if I lay it on cord works great weird but works
Excellent and timely information as I see the same thing here now on a station that is normally rock-solid. I have three tuners on my system (because I wanted to try them at some point) and found my Amazon Recast, for example is less tolerant of these signal issues than my AirTV or my HDHomerun. There isn't a lot of difference but enough to make me change tuners every now and then.
I don't remember the season (probably spring or summer), but in 2005, I received KHBS 40 in Fort Smith, AR and KHOG-TV 29 in Fayetteville from Tulsa, OK. I initially falsely believed my own ABC affiliate (KTUL Channel 8) was somehow appearing on a UHF channel, but then I noticed it was a different station entirely. I was able to see _Nightline_ and _Jimmy Kimmel Live_ an hour early because back then, KTUL delayed those shows by an hour to run syndicated sitcom repeats.
I don't remember any adjacent-channel interference with UPN affiliate KTFO 41 (now MyNetworkTV affiliate KMYT-TV), probably because of the distance.
So I seem to be having the reverse issue. My channels seem to go out early in the morning (2am-7am) and eventually come back around 7am and are fine the rest of the day. I live in Central Texas and the past few weeks have been 80-90 degrees but really humid... like Florida-style humid. I used to live in Florida and even earlier I lived in the Republic of Panama, so I have 1st hand experience with humidity. So I'm not sure if it's this Tropo situation or if it's something else. I know our AM channels mentioned they don't boost their signals until the Sun rises so we may pickup AM radio on the same station from Mexico ... but is this a possibility with TV signals as well?
Back when I grew up in the San Fernando Valley back in the analog days, I would pick up all of the San Diego channels in the Summer due to tropo skip. Pretty much every channel on the VHF band was occupied with something, and occasionally, the San Diego channels came in as clearly as the Los Angeles stations.
When I would start to see interference on channels 2 and 4, and occasionally 5, I knew that Sporadic E skip was in, and I would start to check channel 3, and there was usually something there from another distant city somewhere, depending on where the sporadic E cloud was. Once or twice every Summer, I could receive KARD channel 3 out of Wichita, Kansas, which was a CBS affiliate at the time, and I could watch CBS programming three hours before the shows would come on for the west coast! I miss analog TV for that reason. It was much more straightforward what the interference was, and it did look like the interference lines that you showed, so I knew just by looking at it that it was Sporadic E skip.
Sporadic E skip also happens in the FM radio band. A few years ago in the Antelope Valley part of Los Angeles county, I was picking up FM stations in Yakima, Washington, and two weeks after that, I was picking up Calgary, Alberta stations, all via E skip! If you enjoy receiving things like this, it really helps to be in an area where the local stations are weaker, like the area where I was. Just a few years ago, I was driving in Loveland, Colorado, and radio stations were coming in on frequencies that weren't occupied locally. I pulled over and listened, and found that I was listening to stations from Louisiana!
Lucky for us Canadians is there is not as many channels. It is fun getting some of the diginets for a few hours that we don’t always get on the clear channels!
Yeah I feel bad for you guys. I'm thinking at some point the broadcast networks will realize there is good money potential in leasing some of their spectrum to subchannels.
Another problem of the FCC repack is that TV Stations that were on UHF were moved to Hi-VHF like ABC WVNY that was on Analog UHF channel 22 since 1968. When the Digital transition happened they were moved to channel 13.1 right next to our local 12.1 and I lost them. Now they’re on channel 7.1 and are coming in just barely. The FCC sold out millions of people with their repack.
Tropospheric ducting , as Hams know it or "skip" as CB users call it is a lot of fun to play with if you can figure out which direction its running WHILE it's running in that direction . We Ham operators LOVE it. I was "talking" via keyed code the other day to a contact in New Zealand , an old SOCOM buddy. We can almost never reach each other.
Tyler, I have actually in past years seen our local PBS station go off in morning hours when Tropo reception was happening. I would check for TV channels coming from Baltimore and DC, sure enough TV stations were skipping in that we normally could not receive.
Our PBS TV station was on the same channel as one out of DC. That was before the FCC sold off the patch of Channels.
Had this happen yesterday. Exact symptoms. Still having issues. Antennas have been great up until yesterday. Also stopped raining today. And a big tree ...
Yeah it isn't your antenna. Just hang tight until the atmospheric conditions go back to normal
@@AntennaMan Since we are back to getting rain it has improved. Trying to find an old thread. Installed a Diplexer for a VHF and UHF antenna and it's made a ton of difference for reception. This was weeks ago. Still not sure how to find the weather phenomenon map to see what the troposphere is like in DFW. I miss the snow and lines on TV don't like digitized green.
Back in the CB radio days, we used to call that "when the skip is rolling." You'd get tons of static, and would have a hard time reaching people close by, but could pick up CB operators a state away.
or 800 miles with a dipole on 10 meters usb.
My mom always used to tell me about a rare skip she experienced. It was early morning, June 7, 1968. The morning after the RFK assassination. She had heard about the assassination on a radio talk show, and decided to look for more information. For some reason, she decided to check on the TV. The local, Winnipeg channels had signed off for the night. While flipping the tuner, she came across KSTP-TV, channel 5, in St. Paul, MN, which was broadcasting replays of the assassination. Our TV at the time was a 1956 Admiral Super Cascode B&W, with a rabbit-ear antenna. We did not normally receive KSTP-TV, the Twin Cities' NBC affiliate at the time, but it came in, clear as a bell, that night. All we had was those rabbit-ears, but the Admiral's clear and sensitive, twin triode front end and gated AGC may have also had a bearing, along with a rare tropo.
Great story, thanks for sharing!
Back on monday (6/7), I was driving back to Baltimore, MD from Norfolk, Va. Around 4:30-5am the sun was starting to come up and I was passing through Tappahannock, Va and I figured i'd check out the FM radio stations in the area. Much to my surprise, almost every frequency had something playing. I was receiving stations from Baltimore and hagerstown MD (roughly 130~ and 190~ miles away respectively), Delaware (probably 100~ in a straight shot), A station from the Shenandoah valley, and many others while the local stations were pretty much non-existent. I've never seen anything like that. Is there a specific time of day that this occurs, or is it random? Thanks
A couple weeks ago I had an incident with FM radio reception in my car. It was a sunny, mostly-clear day, driving in an area where normally I'd have no problem picking it up clearly. On that day, however, other stations were intruding into the signal. I emailed the station manager about it, and his tech said that it was probably tropospheric ducting. Things went back to normal the next day.
I remember back in the 80s late at night being able to pick up far away TV channels and AM radio stations.
To add to your explanation, if interference from adjacent markets (e.g. nyc & swb or Hartford) then troop. If interference from a much further away market (e.g. WESH Orlando in NYC) then eskip. Given frequencies of DTV, Tropo should occur way more frequently than eskip.
Tyler, are you a member of WTFDA?
I remember the thrill of picking up a Canadian station broadcasting in French at my home in Rock Island, IL. The antenna wasn't that tall. For a couple of minutes, I watched "Star Trek." French didn't make "Spock's Brain" any better. I assume the station was in Quebec.
LOL -- "Brain and brain - what is brain?! It is controller, is it not?" Yeah, not one of the Original Series' finest efforts for sure.
Yeah Illinois is pretty close to Canada which is no surprise. 😅
June 15th as I write this and the last two days my regular stations that never have a issue are constantly choppy, two different tv’s in different locations around the house same thing. Grrr! Thanks for the video.
The loss of channel space from the repack was stupid- in Sacramento we often get stations from San Francisco during the summer, but a few of them no longer come in because they were moved to the same frequency as some low-power stations here- and often they end up cancelling each other out so we get neither the local nor far-off station! I guess ATSC 3.0 will fit more channels inside one frequency; about 4 stations are going to be broadcasting ATSC 3.0 from just one channel here soon, not sure if that will include their subchannels also.
Yup, the repack created a huge mess. Sorry you're stuck in the middle of it. You're not alone.
THANK YOU. I was wondering why Channel 3 in Hartford was a little funny yesterday.
Thank you antenna man I always suspected this because I've noticed it happening on my TV and on FM radio reception I Was preparing to call in super-powered investigators to see what was going on however I knew that the knowledge that I had would be adequate to resolve this problem thanks once again for your enlightenment
I live in Chicago and one day during the summer I was picking up Milwaukee TV stations. I asked the engineer at the radio station that I worked at and he told me about troppo.
This actually happened to me a couple of days ago I lived in the Rio Grande Valley I picked up two tv stations from Monterrey, Mexico which is out of the market area. Like in my area it’s normal for us to pick up tv channels from Reynosa and Matamoros.
One time in 1978, KELO channel 11 Sioux Falls, SD was coming in on channel 3 (overpowering WRCB 3 from Chattanooga, TN, normally a strong clear station) when I lived in Cherokee County, AL and it would do this every now and then. It can change frequency and interfere with other stations on different frequencies as well as the same channel.
I've observed tropospheric ducting on the NOAA Weather Radio band, which operates on frequencies not too far below VHF TV Channel 7. I normally receive NOAA Weather Radio broadcasts from Champaign, Illinois (WXJ-76) and Newport, Indiana (KZZ-27). However, during a Trop event, I briefly received the NOAA Weather Radio station in Indianapolis, Indiana, which is on the same frequency as the Champaign, Illinois NOAA station, even though I live considerably closer to Champaign than Indianapolis.
Yes, I too experienced interference. I call it radio frequency echoing. I had double my channel input from this echoing. So I checked out my channels. And found the double channel frequencies. Isolated the bad channel and locked on to the good channel. Deleted interference channel. And held on to the good channel. I was surprised at the stations I was getting from a tri-State aspect. I live in NYC, but I’m in the Bronx. Which is the county connected to New York State. I am also near N.J. and Connecticut. I was able to get stations from 3 states on my Antenna recommend from your channel. Mind you, I live on the top floor in the house I am renting for. My antenna was the one with one long VHF element and two vertical UHF elements. With a one foot by two foot vertical grid behind the UHF elements. This is an indoor and outdoor antenna. It’s in my room pointed in the proper direction on top of my mini fridge as a base. Although I would get more channels if I turned off my mini fridge due to electro magnetic interference from the fridge. I don’t mind the few channels I don’t get when my fridge keeps my food and drinks cold.
Fred ... while the fridge motor might cause problems, it's the metal cabinet causing you the most grief. Mote the antenna on top of a wooden cabinet for better results.... or prop it between 2 shelves in a closet using a piece of cardboard.
Back in the late 1970s I was able to get TV stations from as far away as Hastings, Nebraska and Sioux Falls, South Dakota from my home in Armstrong County, Pennsylvania. I was also getting "skip" from Orange County, California on the Butler County, PA fire frequency.
I experience t.v. signal strength loss even before spring and foliage leafs out.
This happens in groups of channels. In my area I get 57.1, 57.2 and 57.3 in winter...no problem.
Then about now in February....signal strength diminishes. It is consistent loss up until about the following November.
I know it's not leaves nor troposphere bounce. Day or night makes no difference.
Signal is gone. And on other groups of channels as well.
I have signal amplifiers on my antenna. No improvement.
I have heard (rumor) that certain t.v. stations reduce the strength of their broadcast signal during times of the year.
This would be my only conclusion.
These stations broadcast from about 30 miles distant.
What are your ideas about what's happening?
Years ago, I always enjoyed tropo events. Living in upstate New York, it was fun to see distant TV and FM stations. I only had it affect low band VHF and the FM band. Did you ever see it on high band VHF or UHF?
Today I noticed 5 new channels on the T.V after it got hot. I didn’t even scan these channels in (MeTv, Start, Decades, Movies!, and H&I). They’re in a different state. Pretty weird.
Broadcasting signals are always better in the winter than the summer. When I was a kid, I could get AM radio stations a thousand miles away after dark during the winter months.
Oh, thanks! I’m in Mid-Michigan, and I rescanned for channels and was able to pick up Fox 66 as well. However, last night I turned on the TV and couldn’t receive most of my local channels, however some came through without issue. I guess this explains it
Yes! Thank you.
After researching antennas (prior to finding your TH-cam Channel), I purchased the Antennas Direct 8 Bowtie antenna, needed UHF only and wanted option to move panels for more channel options, but didn't take into account we live in a highly, highly wooded area, so frustrated (saw your video on this model unfortunately after I made the purchase). The Antenna is as high as my husband can currently get it, 20 ft off the ground now, should I try to elevate more (which would require me renting a lift) or did I just waste $150? Currently get all the local channels that we wanted, but too blurry to watch. All are pixelated/drop signal.
For some reason I just started getting CBS after 5 years of not having it. Get THIS now too. I'm happy.
I still can't get CBS. LoL It's been since the Analog era since CBS was clear in California. Pfft
Great simple discussion of tropospheric ducting, and how Friendly Cousin Charlie has made this worse. Nice plug of the DX hobby as well 😃
I used to DX TV, but after digital went effect, the DX went away around here. I even got some double hop into Quebec and Ohio in the 1970s from the Northern OR Coast. I still DX FM though. Even FM HD does skip. I don't even have a VHF antenna there days, other than my FM Yagi, as I have not seen any distant TV skip. UHF can skip a bit, but the signal never gets high enough to lock. Maybe 3.0 might be better. Lots of Tropo in the Midwest and South. Very common with my friend in Illinois.
3:50 reminds me of this one scenario that I witnessed last year.
May of last year I had to rescan my TV because one of my local stations switched to a different frequency, I rescanned and a channel down from Wichita falls that I normally would not get since it's a hundred miles away, I was able to pick up the signal for a couple hours due to tropo.
I don’t have problems here as much in Huntington Beach California, but the problem is that I can’t pick up ABC and Fox due to them being transmitted in low VHF. How do I get those back with a indoor antenna? Great info though.
I just made a video on this topic last week. th-cam.com/video/6otvIew5tqo/w-d-xo.html
I have a DVR tv tuner USB in my computer to record shows and convert VHS to DVD. I don't have anything but free over-the-air TV. My outdoor aerial goes to my computer tv tuner and also my regular tv. My aerial picks up about 75 channels, but lately, NOT the one I do most DVR recording on. It would fade in and out, causing a corrupt DVR file. I went up there and got it to go about 6 inches higher. (It's a 2 story house, so it's not easy to mess with the aerial). What a difference just 6 inches makes. That channel comes in perfect now and digital rescan got me a couple new channels.
I’m skeptical that the earth’s curvature has much influence. How much lower is a broadcast antenna that is 100 miles away?
Tyler, Thanks, I was wondering what was happening and checking my antennae set ups. The issue was on one TV only. Each TV has a separate antennae setup.
I wonder if the 3.0 will help on this when it comes to helping out with troppo
Hard to say. I would hope it would help.
@@AntennaMan I think wind could be another factor, causes antenna's and tree limbs to move. if more than one station is being received on the same frequency makes it difficult for the tuner to decode the signal. I'm thinking the FCC should have not required small market TV stations to repack if they have tower locations 100 miles outside the suburbs of large and medium markets because cellular would have a smaller demand for bandwidth in rural areas.
Tropo last week allowed me to pick up the northern Danish DAB network from the UK every night for a few nights on nothing more than a telescopic aerial and a sensitive DAB radio. Have also picked up Dutch, Norwegian, German and French digital radio services (would likely also have picked up Belgian services but they use the same frequencies as strong multiplexes here so I haven't got them yet).
I live in a condo and we have a common roof top antenna. We lose signal in the fall and winter and it doesn't comes back until around the summer solstice. Our unit is on the west side of the building and our indoor antenna needs to be oriented towards the east so that doesn't work well either.
I'm surprised the Antenna Man didn't bother to explain the differences in antenna gain, backside rejection, and an antenna rotor. In the Analog days, antenna rotors were fairly common to eliminate ghosting from strong reflections arriving off axis of the main signal. Had to check his website. Under accessories, there is an antenna rotator listed.
Also I find the leaves on big oak trees on neighbors property. I also reduce the connection of splitters in the the summer to 2 tv's most used. Rarely pixilates Boston to Rhode Island
What about directive antennas with good off direction shielding? We use to love this during CB days.
That explains why I have trouble getting the channel Antenna TV and few others during the summer.
Now I know why, when I rescan I get double channels, thought it was just a quirk, would just block the duplicates, thinking they were just the same channels repeated.
Between some summer leaves and tropo, I have noticed a few channel dropouts. Only picked up some channels from 100 miles out from Duluth, MN.
So the three-letter word we left in charge of broadcast signals made short work of TVD xing multiple times in a row and has expressed wanting to turn a.m. and possibly FM digital as well now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
I used to look forward to this happening during the humid summer months especially at night when I was a kid in the 80's. I lived in Philadelphia a few miles from the Roxborough antenna farm on Domino Lane and if the atmospheric conditions were right I could pick up stations from Lancaster, Pa, New York City or Baltimore,MD. I once even got a station from Ohio. I miss the days of analog tv.
We also had a tv service called Prism which used a microwave system like the ones tv stations used for live shots and we could pick up the microwave ENG and STL feeds from the 3,6 and 10 plus some satellite channels.
I’ve been watching WTMJ NBC 4 Milwaukee solely because I’m able to pick it up 108 miles away from Milwaukee in NW Indiana. There’s also a big flat Lake Michigan to help carry signals. I do listen to 620 WTMJ to get updates on the Brewers when I’m in the car, and hope they’re losing.
Very informative as always.
Hey Tyler. It's weather related. I have antenna tv and a TMobile wifi hotspot. They both have these issues at the same time. The sun just started acting up again. But it supposed to be better propagation for my Grundig shortwave. Last resort, AM radio late night you get everything.
Thanks
COOP
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My problems are with RF channels 25 and 27 here in metro NYC. Virtual channels 5 and 9, on those channels, are lousy. Other higher UHF channels are finely are the VHF Hi. Ever since the repack and loss off 600 MHz, reception has declined.
Yeah the WNYW and WWOR have lower powered UHF signals. I don't recall if it was the FCC repack or the move to the WTC that caused this to happen but you're right the signals of 5 and 9 are horrible.
As far as I know all TV signals are horizontally polarized. I have seen people put the antenna the wrong way. A bow tie will be somewhat effective this way but others just don't work. I would like to see a video on this.
I've looked at that tropo site several times over the last 10 years or so. I wonder though, if the ATSC 3.0 has lots better reception, how much will it matter? Will tried-n-true channels be enough for most folks? I suppose doing a channel scan in 5-10 years will be more productive than now and some people will be working to get the new more distant channels in solid.
Check out my ATSC 3.0 video playlist to see how the reception compares. Note there's more than a channel scan for people to get NextGen broadcasts. They need a whole new tuner.
My experience this summer? When it's quite cloudy, like it might rain, reception of a distant channel improves.
However, because we get foggy mornings every now and then at the beginning of summer, my reception gets so crappy that the tv is unwatchable up to 12 hours a day...no doubt my crappy digital to analog converter is a contributing factor.
Try laying metal on cord near antenna to tv or tuner if I remove metal station won't come in.It took lots of experiments finding proper weight on cord like I said next to where you out antenna wire or tuner.Toenail clippers work best 😜
Tropo skip especially is not from mid May-early July on the VHF Lo band and July and August on the VHF Hi band. Last summer here in AZ on my old 13" Philco CRT, I was picking up Cuba, Honduras, and Columbia on channels 2,3, and 4 using just rabbit ears for an antenna. The two mentioned Central American countries are still NSTC and are not planning to go digital according to WRTH. Cuba is suppose to in 2023 and I'm not sure about Columbia. An incredibly cool time of the year!!
For the past 3+ weeks I have struggled horribly to maintain signal on WSAZ (NBC) and WQCW (CW) both out of Huntington, WV. They are 80 miles away though I can't pick up ANYTHING from the Cincinnati market, still for 5 years I have had very reliable and strong signal for these 2 stations except during brief tropo events. But it seems every day for the past 3 weeks, the signals (especially NBC) have been a grab bag of minimally average and nigh non existent. It started with NBC bumping down to a mediocre 22db average while CW stayed at its ideal 26-27db range, now NBC barely manages 20db most the time and CW is chaotically variable between 21db and 24db, with frequent dips below. I don't think it is tropo since that would not last this long. But when any kind of tropo even is present it utterly destroys the signals now, can't watch anything for the whole day. I even called the engineer team for the station (they share the same tower) and was told they were still at full power. More confusing still, is WVAH (former Fox channel) still attempts to come in from 97 miles away, but of course it is nowhere near stable, usually brief stills fluttering throughout the day. Stations I have had and loved for years, now suddenly too weak to watch regularly, with nothing in the way of an explanation. I unhooked my antenna. I am done with this. Sorry, need to blow off some steam here.