The true story was that he did stab Comyn in a fit of rage, and he almost immediately realised what he'd done. Covered in blood, he ran from the kirk and told his friends "Help, I've just stabbed Comyn." His friend Kirkpatrick said, "Don't worry, I'll make sure." Then he went into the kirk and finished off the dying Comyn. And to this day the official motto of the Kirkpatrick clan is "I Mak Sikkar" literally "I make sure."
I have the clan badge tattooed on my right shoulder, My Grandfather was a Kilpatrick, and knew all this family history, The Bruce, Douglas and many other nobles are my ancestors, many names in the declaration of Arbroath are ancestors, Sir Roger De Kirkpatrick was a knight Also a cousin of Robert the Bruce as well as one of the Bruce's most trusted body guards, Kirkpatrick died along side Sir James Douglas on the way to the crusades.
@@thevampirecielphantomhive2342 I'm a descendant of john comyn. We fought with wallace for those many years. Comyn would never say he got what he deserved. Bruce killed us under the ruse of a land for crown negotiation. And his side has been told ever since. Ultimately he brought freedom to Scotland but whether that was out of greed or nobility is up to which side you listen to. He couldn't have had such care for wallace if he formed an alliance with his killer, no ? Not too mention he commited sacrilege and then used the preists as his pawns.
Imagine what Scotland could’ve achieved without the constant infighting between its nobles. Imagine if they all united. Even when their independence was won, not everyone was with Robert the Bruce, which is incredible.
@@thevampirecielphantomhive2342 Just because it wasn't the first time it doesn't mean it was cool. Back in the day, even if you were a king, if you commited a "sin" worthy of the attention of any church high authorities, YOU WERE SCREWED. Either you bribed your way into being absolbed (Which was a shit tone of money) or you'd have to beg the Pope for penance. And then was also the diplomatic issue as seen here, this was a time of 100% christianity rules, you really needed a good excuse to wage war or kill another christian
John Comyn... "It'll never work" - Says the man who crushed 30,000 English soldiers alongside Simon Fraser and even William Wallace. Read the much forgotten Battle of Roslin where the Scots took on three separate Armies, all roughly 10,000 each after making a night journey to surprise the English. Much is legend and the 30,000 may well be exaggerated but needless to say it's still a fascinating Battle and story!
Thank you for this post! I have not heard of this battle before, and it has opened my eyes alot more regarding this fascinating piece of Scottish history!!
I'm not sure where you get the figures for Roslin, it's accepted the numbers involved are not known, but putting 30,000 troops into the field even in 2022 is difficult with modern logistics. Medieval England would be hard pressed to raise 30,000 mucker.
@@henryvagincourt4502 Hence why I used the term Legend. It's not the first time I've read or heard about this number. There's a few documentaries online with that number being mentioned but again, it's just a story. The battle was real but I believe the numbers were exaggerated to increase moral and PR throughout Scotland. I'm no expert so I'm open to correction 🤟🏻👍🏻
@@TeamLNE Not sure myself my friend, it's an interesting debate, as is much of Edward's campaigning in Scotland. I wouldn't wish to correct you, but the 30,000 figure is way off the mark given England's population at that time, its troubles in France. It is sadly a battle very much overlooked, but none the less rather interesting.
@@henryvagincourt4502 Absolutely, totally agree with that. I personally don't believe the number myself, just imagine how difficult it would be to feed, water, not to mention the horse, the carts and everything else included when marching an army across the country. It's a shame that the battle doesn't get enough attention but when visiting Roslin and Roslin Glen you can definitely pick up on the vibes from history, it's a truly beautiful spot. All the best my friend!
I love this take on the meeting. Obviously we don't know what actually happened, how events that day truly unfolded, but this adds a wee bit of meat to the story. It's perfectly plausible to suggest this is what happened and why Bruce killed the Comyn. This is a brilliant film. I don't think people realise the effort they went to in order to make it historically accurate in so many instances. The only downside was the future Edward II being present at Loudoun Hill. To then allow him to walk off, humiliated but unharmed while Bruce's wife and daughter remained in English hands was just silly. Even had they ended the film with Edward II held as a bargaining tool to get Bruce's family released, it would've made at least a tiny bit of sense.
I just imagine that he was thinking of the danger his family would be in when he made the decision to kill him and then after the adrenaline rush wears off, his face just says "I am in such deep shit."
I personally believe he outright murdered comyn, films always have to try and make the protagonist understandable to a modern audience with morals but back then it was about gain Robert gained the crown.
@@Singgen Bruce and Comyn were enemies. Comyn always fought against Edward I, while Bruce vacillated regarding whose side he was on. So Comyn's kin and the peasants they controlled (not troops) would never have been for Bruce, especially since Comyn had a superior claim to be the Scottish King.
But then we wouldn't have a story would we? :) You're right of course, that is what a savvy individual would have done and probably what Comyn would have done if this conversation actually took place in history. Robert the Bruce would never have offered an alliance to Comyn, what would have been the point? Both the Comyn and Bruce families were vying for the crown of Scotland and would have opposed each other in war. Robert the Bruce murdered him to prevent him from mustering forces against Bruce's rebellion on the side of the English. Looking at the comments here it seems most think Robert Bruce was some noble moral individual, nope. Bruce went to Comyn to kill him as he knew Comyn wouldn't yield to Robert's leadership and Bruce would suffer no rivals. In truth he was a brutal, murdering, ambitious man who never shied from ruthless action and thats why he was successful like thousands of rulers before and since.
@@HH-dd2xq You'd think so from a story pov, at least he would have wanted to. But gloating idiots didn't survive long back then. The actual Comyn would never have been stupid enough to announce his intentions to doom Bruce and his family because he wanted the satisfaction. He would have said 'Thanks but no thanks' and then told Longshanks, or pretended to play along. He would have known, even if this meeting had actually taken place in history, that he was a dead man if he didn't agree or appear to as he would then be a loose end. The real Robert Bruce ofc would never have bothered telling Comyn any of this or asking him for help. It would have been a colossal risk for little gain, Comyn would not have accepted Bruce's leadership and would have taken the simpler option and use this opportunity to rid himself of his greatest enemy and get in good with the English at the same time. Then the Comyns would have been the only candidates for the crown of Scotland once Balliol died and/or the only potential leaders of any future uprisings.
There's also a lot of debate about land ownership and how bruce was bringing a contract of sorts to comyn to give land in exchange for the crown. I obviously wasn't there, but there's no way my ancestor was dumb enough to walk in and say haha im gonna tell on you , and expect to get away. It was a brutal lie by bruce to get comyn there and kill him. Bruce wanted blood and war, and nothing more.
@@andrewnavarro1185 said no one 😂 honor was never a cause to win it was a reason to live, but it was destroyed because of England and Rome but many people like my ancestor Comyn didn’t expect to get stabbed in sacred grounds fs
The accents generally in the film were excellent, Chris Pine made a fine attempt, he broke a few times, usually when raising his voice, but that's understandable and acceptable. The one i was really impressed with was Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Black Douglas. I didn't realise it was 'Kick-Ass' until the end of the film. I thought his accent was remarkable. He nailed it.
@@scottw.3258 I'm the same mate, I watched Outlaw King in the Edinburgh Filmhouse so I got a pleasant surprise too when his name turned up. One particular line of his sounded so natural as a Scotsman, When Longshanks kicks Douglas out and you hear Douglas saying 'He can't do that, he's just slandered my name' - It was perfect!!
Weird watching netflix make an adaptation of your ancestor KILLING a man and having everyone say that man deserved to die. Aye what's up? Just found out I'm related to robert way down the line.
he never expected them to fight honorably. In fact if i remember right it was the English king that wrote a letter whinging to the pope about how the scots were doing guerilla warfare instead of meeting in open combat
@@humdunkin328 I don't think you people saw the movie. Robert the Bruce fully expected Chivalry in the show and got his ass whooped in the early parts because he was honorable.
What everybody doesn't know is John Comyn was a beast of a guy and also a great warrior who stopped the biggest Army of 30 thousand English to Invade Scotland. The English separated into 3 Army's of about 10k in each probably to cover more ground and collect more loot, Luckily for us John Comyn expected another invasion and was prepared with only 8 thousand Scots. The Scots done a sneak attack on first army and totaly wiped them out, A few survivors managed to escape to the English 2nd camp and say what had happened. The Scots seeing the 2nd Army approaching armed themselves with better weapons left over from first English Army and prepared for battle again, it lasted few hours but eventually Scots took another Victory. They where celebrating when news of a 3rd Army was on way. John Comyn knew to retreat would turn into a bloodbath for the Scots. So John Comyn gave a brilliant speech to the remainder of his Army of how Scotland had never been Conquered and how our Ancestors where watching their exploits and with that the Scots where ready for one last battle. It was a brutal 3rd battle which lasted as long as previous 2 but eventually Scots took a 3rd victory. Robert The Bruce always down played John's role in The Battle Of Roslin but after all they hated each other. In reality though it was a huge victory for John Comyn. Roslin was a bloodbath captured English from first battle all got killed by the Scots when they saw the 2nd English Army approaching as Scots didn't have enough man power to guard them plus fight so nobody was spared. I honestly don't know why The Battle of Roslin never gets spoke about but there's a few well made videos on TH-cam about it. Look it up 🏴
@@spencer6709 The Bruce family played down John Comyns leadership and winning all 3 battles coz they hated each other. Most of what we know comes from England as The Bruce obviously destroyed all Documentation of the battle once he became King. But John Comyn is up there with Wallace and The Bruce as heroes to Scotland. We need a film of John Comyn and he was a very tough fighter and very powerful. Your welcome btw, I only write truth Pal as best to my Knowledge. 👍
Wasnt quite like this, John was known for his shouting and provoking moods. Robert was wounded by John after dueling in the Church. Robert and John were bothe sorely wounded. It was Kirk Patrick who finished John off after being ordered to from the wounded Bruce.
Wondering why would Robert Bruce get mad at Comyn casting Wallace's name aside if neither Comyn nor Wallace were in the same side of the Bruce family regarding to the claim to the Scottish throne. Besides, why would John Comyn demean or dismiss Wallace's name if in the end Wallace fought for John Balioll's position as king hence for the Comyn family's interest, being Balioll John Comyn's uncle.
I don't think he was mad at him denouncing Wallace's name but more like Robert killing a person who was a threat to him, his rebellion, and his family.
You talk yourselves up to be “landlords”…you are peasants with property. You talk of grace and royalty as if you payed for it, you fucked up the planet through your aged ignorance and now we have to solve the problem. You stand high on a cusp of might yet no one has ever offered me a fight. You are cowards, bible bashers, and the end of civilisation yet it be upon those who reign to grasp there dicks and vaginas with dignity and pride, in knowing they got to their position through ranks not austerity. Shame on you, for I am Thor and I see clear as the light of day. You retrabated lonesome idiots.
People say this movie portrays The Bruce as an objective hero with no faults, yet he literally just fucking murderered a dude in church because it helped his cause. Did those people even watch the movie?
You forgot the fact that dude was actually planning to betray Bruce and backstab him by telling the king about his message. Some people underestimate treason and betrays a lot.
@@Velshin1986 "Betray" implies that they were ever friends. This dude was a rival, who came to this meeting to hear him out and decide what he wanted to do about the situation in a church of God, where no Christian would ever commit murder. And two scenes after this, he gets himself crowned the King of Scotland without even trying to hide his crime. This wasn't some coldly calculated execution of a traitor, this was the murder of a countryman purely so that he didn't have any more rivals for the crown he'd already decided to take.
@@NoBody-lj5xh You missed my point. My point is John was planning to overthrow Bruce and kill him by reporting his message to the king. What you want Bruce to do? shake his hands and wait for John to report the issues to the king so he gets captured and executed?
@@Velshin1986 I'm not saying the action was unwarrented, but inviting someone to talk about politics peacfully in a fucking church of all places, KNOWING that he doesn't like you, and then murdering him when he, surprise, doesn't like the idea of leading his family into war just so that you can be his king is a very "anti-hero" move at best, not exactly the kind of thing a perfectly stand-up guy would do.
@@NoBody-lj5xh By your logic if I see someone who doesnt like me and he is preparing a knife to kill me I shouldnt react and defend myself at all? because in this scene this is exactly what happened. Yes he wanted to discuss politics peacefully but when the other guy threaten to tell the king about his plans which will not just kill Bruce but his family as well? of course he had to act swiftly.
It's doubtful Robert was actually that reasonable. He probably just walked in shouting, "For Scotland I kill thee!" And there were others present not shown here.
Yeah but he's the main character in this film so you have to make him sympathetic. Honestly, how do you make your main character murder someone and remain favourable by the audience? They did it pretty well, in my opinion.
@@immortaljanus it was hard to watch... but leaving him alive.. sigh.. I'm glad I didn't have to make those kind of decisions. But at least he was very honest about it.
well we actually have no idea why Robert killed him, one theory( the one they used) was Robert was trying to raise a rebellion and tried to have comyn on side. or bruce invited him there to murder him so nobody else could contest his claim.
The "good guy" throughout history often has to be airbrushed a little as what constituted a good person in those days would seem like just "less of a bastard" by modern standards. William Wallace would enter a town and demand soldiers, anyone able-bodied who refused were hung from trees as a warning that you can either fight for him or die, you couldn't put that wee fact in Braveheart. Similarly Hector in the Iliad was more arrogant than Achilles was, in fact the reason Achilles was able to kill him is because Hector wore Achilles' stolen armour as an insult and Achilles knew it had a weak spot above the heart, all of this was omitted from the movie Troy. We movie watchers like our heroes to have as few blemishes as possible, no vices, no bad habits and definitely no bad attitude, it's probably only westerns that show the good guys as they truly were, warts and all.
Nobles and knights didn't wear chainmail all the time you know. If you met one wearing it off the battlefield it probably meant trouble. For one thing it's really heavy and uncomfortable.
@GoogleJanniesEatPoop I was not so about kings fighting with his posture indeed. Not sure about the battle, justs think the aesthetics and flow of combat looks realistic. About the historic details I have no clue.
The truth they got into a fight Bruce nearly killed him, as he left the church Kirkpatrick asked Bruce, "di you kill him" Bruce no so Kirkpatrick said " well I'll gaun mak sikkur" meaning I'll go make sure and he finished him off it's now the Kirkpatrick clans motto with a bloody dagger.
I still feel like Robert should've dragged him outta the church before stabbing Comyn, it would've made things less messy for the future but he didn't do that.
It doesn't matter if he killed him in the church, or the church's steps yet not inside, murder is murder, yet one could argue this was not murder but a form of self and familial defense. For the man was going to have him and his family presumably killed, if he let him live it would've been as if he was murdered himself. No sin is made more egregious on holy ground than if it were committed else where, God does not see sin in such a way, man does.
@@drg8687 I don't personally believe in god, at least not the Christian idea of god, but theological discussions can still be interesting I think. They can reveal things about how we think and see the world, for example I agree with Minuteman that god wouldn't distinguish between murder committed in one place or another and that that's a very human idea.
The difference is that killing him on holy ground would not only be murder, but would also be an insult against god. In those days murder was bad, but murder could be forgiven, insulting god on the other hand was unforgivable - that is why he was ex-communicated. By killing Comyn in a church he effectively pissed on everything that his peers believed in and that caused him a lot of trouble in the coming years.
In real life they both brought their crews and when Comyns guys found out what happened a skirmish broke out and his men where killed as well. Would've made for a better scene don't know why they didn't want more action in the movie especially since it's historically accurate.
Couldnt agree more. The Comyns were the last great independent clan in Scotland. Then Bruce betrayed us all and then fooled you all into believing he had any integrity. #destroyallbrucestatues
It's a good idea to kill someone in a church. Then you just need to bring a casket, put the body in the casket, and you can start the funeral right away. Lean supply chain management.
I wonder if they kept in the fact that Comyn abandoned Wallace during the battle of Falkirk. Would make Comyn badmouthing Wallace even more of a piss off. The event was referenced in Braveheart.
But is this really correct for sure? All i can get is "Its not sure who knighted him" " no proof if Wallace ever met Bruce" But then John Balliol was captured 1296 and Wallace became guardian of scotland 1297 or 98. Maybe it could only be Robert that knighted him 🤔
@@DudeSweet317 the author James Mackay worked it out in his book "William Wallace: Braveheart" that it must've been the Earl of Carrick. Robert the Bruce's mother was Marjorie Countess of Carrick, which means it was either her husband (who would've been Earl of Carrick by marriage) or her son the future King Robert the Bruce who knighted William Wallace, as he would've inherited the position when his parents died.
@@edinscot56789 you seem to be having a lot of knowledge about this, there were 6 battles in the independence war untill Robert finally succed right? Wallace and Robert must have been fight them all 6 together right ? except the 7th What ive seen Robert took part in battles later. Im not sure about this rly. I know the movie is rly unaccurate so :P But did Robert ever stand on England side ?
@@DudeSweet317 Well it wasn't easy for Robert. He had English lands, such as being the Earl of Huntingdon (which was in Cambridgeshire) and was beholden to a man called Bishop Beck who was a right-hand man of King Edward in Northern England, where Robert also had lands. Plus he was half-Norman, half-Briton so he wasn't actually a Scot; but he did have bloodline ancestry to King David I of Scotland through his paternal Great-Grandmother Isobel of Huntingdon (ironically) as King David I granted the Earldom of Huntingdon to Robert's ancestors through marriage. Robert fought against Wallace at Falkirk. Not like in Braveheart, he actually fought in the battle itself. He even managed to wound him, but after the fighting ended he sought him out and tried to persuade Wallace to come into Edward's peace. He must've felt about about striking him, I guess. Shows a lot of courage on the Bruce's part that he'd go after Wallace and talk to him after having just wounded him in battle. My feeling is he could've killed him but didn't want to and held back. Instead Wallace persuaded Bruce to finally break free of Edward's grip once and for all. Bruce was oath-bound to serve Edward at Falkirk. In those days you can't break your oath or your word or you'd be outcast. Bruce asked Edward to be free of his oath to him after Falkirk and Edward released him, albeit he kept a close eye on him for a long time afterwards. This is all based on the account of Henry the Minstrel, taken from a book 'William Wallace: Robin Hood Revealed'
So is this how the netflix is trying to justify Bruce? A poor scene and a poor movie. Robert Bruce is a Scottish legend, but one should not forget that at the beginning of his rise there was a despicable murder.
The historical inaccuracy just kills me. Stop trying to make Bruce the reasonable one in this incident. The same guy who defended Carlisle castle against the Scottish is suddenly all about the good of the nation? Don’t make me laugh, the Comyns were more loyal Scots than Bruce ever was; he just wanted a crown.
Initially Bruce was just all about the crown, he changed sides several times in order to back his weaker opponent against his stronger opponent and even sided with the English at one point just to get closer to his crown (though he never fought for them as depicted in Braveheart). However once he heard of Wallace's execution it became as much about taking back the country as it was about being crowned as he knew the rebellious uproar against the English following Wallace's death would give the English cause for a full invasion.
@@andrewnavarro1185 you truly believe that’s what honor is then your sick in the head only people that died were the warriors, why does honor involve freedom and survival when a war for freedom is being fought by lords and soldiers not everyone is involved. Because it’s pointless to be fighting over petty reasons such as freedom when all should be free, no matter what wars back then were not really justified.
@@andrewnavarro1185 you really are sick if you agree that having to fight for freedom is good then rethink your lifestyle bud because no one on this planet should have to fight for freedom and if they do then the country they are in is corrupt and deserves to fall. Just because they fought for freedom it doesn’t mean it was good or what should’ve happened, I can tell your a child or a child in a grown man’s body. Believe it or not I descend from John Comyn and you think you can talk about this with me. They are my people and I know for a fact that they only fought for freedom because they had no choice, because Robert the Bruce forced them to and because England was being unfair
Not very realistic. Whenever I stab someone in the throat it's much messier than that. And they don't just stare wide eyed at me and collapse. Usually they go Ow Ow Ow, that really stings, what the fuck did you do that for! Meanwhile they are spunking claret all over the place and getting really upset. Then they gurgle abit and keel over. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong. I've taken to wearing a cagoule when I'm feeling stabby, Peter Storm or Regatta are good cos they're cheap and keep the blood off the tweeds. After I've calmed down I give the soiled clothing to charity. It's the Christian thing to do.
The true story was that he did stab Comyn in a fit of rage, and he almost immediately realised what he'd done. Covered in blood, he ran from the kirk and told his friends "Help, I've just stabbed Comyn." His friend Kirkpatrick said, "Don't worry, I'll make sure." Then he went into the kirk and finished off the dying Comyn. And to this day the official motto of the Kirkpatrick clan is "I Mak Sikkar" literally "I make sure."
We dont know for sure what happened we only know Comyn died in a church how he died isnt documented
Sikkar is so close to German sicher wow
@@d.b.2215 Or to Latin sicarii, which in turn comes from Hebrew siqariyim.
I have the clan badge tattooed on my right shoulder, My Grandfather was a Kilpatrick, and knew all this family history, The Bruce, Douglas and many other nobles are my ancestors, many names in the declaration of Arbroath are ancestors, Sir Roger De Kirkpatrick was a knight Also a cousin of Robert the Bruce as well as one of the Bruce's most trusted body guards, Kirkpatrick died along side Sir James Douglas on the way to the crusades.
@@keithmuir5077 how can someone die in a church if you are there with your rival?
Love the twitch on Chris Pine's face when Comyn said Wallace got what he deserved. Its like.... how can you say that?
Yet bruce forgave the man who had Wallace captured and killed 🤔
@@spencer6709 Sometimes in war you have to make peace with a lesser enemy
@@thevampirecielphantomhive2342 I'm a descendant of john comyn. We fought with wallace for those many years. Comyn would never say he got what he deserved. Bruce killed us under the ruse of a land for crown negotiation. And his side has been told ever since. Ultimately he brought freedom to Scotland but whether that was out of greed or nobility is up to which side you listen to. He couldn't have had such care for wallace if he formed an alliance with his killer, no ? Not too mention he commited sacrilege and then used the preists as his pawns.
@@spencer6709 who's 'we'? You're over 700 years old are you?
@@blackkray1168 my ancestors if you could read.
Chris Pine absolutely killed this role. I mean this is him at his best.
Never bring a cloak to a chainmail fight.
how about his chin? was his chin wearing chainmail?
@@DaveDexterMusicshould have worn a ventail
Imagine what Scotland could’ve achieved without the constant infighting between its nobles. Imagine if they all united. Even when their independence was won, not everyone was with Robert the Bruce, which is incredible.
It's typically hard to unite warring tribal people. The Scots are a good example, but there are plenty of others.
Mexicans have the same problem.
@@robwalsh9843 Taliban
@@sdsurfers7957 The Japanese, the Somalis. Tons of examples honestly.
Europeans then realized about that centuries later and apply that to their colonies so they can rule them longer
I'm not sure people understand this was seen as the most despicable act to do in those days, killing in a church
It wasn't the first time
Traitors are the lowest scum there is.
Threatening a fellow countryman on sacred ground seems pretty despicable.
@@spencer6709 how edgy lol
@@thevampirecielphantomhive2342 Just because it wasn't the first time it doesn't mean it was cool. Back in the day, even if you were a king, if you commited a "sin" worthy of the attention of any church high authorities, YOU WERE SCREWED. Either you bribed your way into being absolbed (Which was a shit tone of money) or you'd have to beg the Pope for penance. And then was also the diplomatic issue as seen here, this was a time of 100% christianity rules, you really needed a good excuse to wage war or kill another christian
The birth of the phrase, “That escalated quickly.”
Then Black Douglas murders a whole garrison during Sunday service lol
That's what you get when you steel a man's birthright.
He just wanted his name back
John Comyn...
"It'll never work" - Says the man who crushed 30,000 English soldiers alongside Simon Fraser and even William Wallace. Read the much forgotten Battle of Roslin where the Scots took on three separate Armies, all roughly 10,000 each after making a night journey to surprise the English.
Much is legend and the 30,000 may well be exaggerated but needless to say it's still a fascinating Battle and story!
Thank you for this post! I have not heard of this battle before, and it has opened my eyes alot more regarding this fascinating piece of Scottish history!!
I'm not sure where you get the figures for Roslin, it's accepted the numbers involved are not known, but putting 30,000 troops into the field even in 2022 is difficult with modern logistics. Medieval England would be hard pressed to raise 30,000 mucker.
@@henryvagincourt4502 Hence why I used the term Legend. It's not the first time I've read or heard about this number. There's a few documentaries online with that number being mentioned but again, it's just a story. The battle was real but I believe the numbers were exaggerated to increase moral and PR throughout Scotland.
I'm no expert so I'm open to correction 🤟🏻👍🏻
@@TeamLNE Not sure myself my friend, it's an interesting debate, as is much of Edward's campaigning in Scotland. I wouldn't wish to correct you, but the 30,000 figure is way off the mark given England's population at that time, its troubles in France. It is sadly a battle very much overlooked, but none the less rather interesting.
@@henryvagincourt4502 Absolutely, totally agree with that. I personally don't believe the number myself, just imagine how difficult it would be to feed, water, not to mention the horse, the carts and everything else included when marching an army across the country. It's a shame that the battle doesn't get enough attention but when visiting Roslin and Roslin Glen you can definitely pick up on the vibes from history, it's a truly beautiful spot. All the best my friend!
I love this take on the meeting. Obviously we don't know what actually happened, how events that day truly unfolded, but this adds a wee bit of meat to the story. It's perfectly plausible to suggest this is what happened and why Bruce killed the Comyn.
This is a brilliant film. I don't think people realise the effort they went to in order to make it historically accurate in so many instances. The only downside was the future Edward II being present at Loudoun Hill. To then allow him to walk off, humiliated but unharmed while Bruce's wife and daughter remained in English hands was just silly. Even had they ended the film with Edward II held as a bargaining tool to get Bruce's family released, it would've made at least a tiny bit of sense.
I just imagine that he was thinking of the danger his family would be in when he made the decision to kill him and then after the adrenaline rush wears off, his face just says "I am in such deep shit."
I personally believe he outright murdered comyn, films always have to try and make the protagonist understandable to a modern audience with morals but back then it was about gain Robert gained the crown.
@@aaronsmith3484 not that simple. He also lost support of Comyn's troops. Which was vital.
@@Singgen Bruce and Comyn were enemies. Comyn always fought against Edward I, while Bruce vacillated regarding whose side he was on. So Comyn's kin and the peasants they controlled (not troops) would never have been for Bruce, especially since Comyn had a superior claim to be the Scottish King.
If Robert had just given the crown to Comyn maybe Comyn would’ve joined him and raised 20,000 men
Comyn was pretty much an idiot here. He could have just said ok and then told Longshanks about and gotten the crown in return for betraying Bruce.
But then we wouldn't have a story would we? :) You're right of course, that is what a savvy individual would have done and probably what Comyn would have done if this conversation actually took place in history. Robert the Bruce would never have offered an alliance to Comyn, what would have been the point? Both the Comyn and Bruce families were vying for the crown of Scotland and would have opposed each other in war. Robert the Bruce murdered him to prevent him from mustering forces against Bruce's rebellion on the side of the English. Looking at the comments here it seems most think Robert Bruce was some noble moral individual, nope. Bruce went to Comyn to kill him as he knew Comyn wouldn't yield to Robert's leadership and Bruce would suffer no rivals. In truth he was a brutal, murdering, ambitious man who never shied from ruthless action and thats why he was successful like thousands of rulers before and since.
the Scotts are not cunning like the English
They had been rivals for years. Comyn likely wanted the satisfaction of saying "you're a dead man, I win" directly to Bruce's face.
@@HH-dd2xq You'd think so from a story pov, at least he would have wanted to. But gloating idiots didn't survive long back then. The actual Comyn would never have been stupid enough to announce his intentions to doom Bruce and his family because he wanted the satisfaction. He would have said 'Thanks but no thanks' and then told Longshanks, or pretended to play along. He would have known, even if this meeting had actually taken place in history, that he was a dead man if he didn't agree or appear to as he would then be a loose end. The real Robert Bruce ofc would never have bothered telling Comyn any of this or asking him for help. It would have been a colossal risk for little gain, Comyn would not have accepted Bruce's leadership and would have taken the simpler option and use this opportunity to rid himself of his greatest enemy and get in good with the English at the same time. Then the Comyns would have been the only candidates for the crown of Scotland once Balliol died and/or the only potential leaders of any future uprisings.
There's also a lot of debate about land ownership and how bruce was bringing a contract of sorts to comyn to give land in exchange for the crown. I obviously wasn't there, but there's no way my ancestor was dumb enough to walk in and say haha im gonna tell on you , and expect to get away. It was a brutal lie by bruce to get comyn there and kill him. Bruce wanted blood and war, and nothing more.
That - is - a - brutal - ending.
John Comyn played the guy with the flamethrower in Batman v Superman
I knew he looked familiar.
He also played one of the Hydra guys who tried to capture Captain America in the elevator scene of Winter Soldier.
and in 300 rise of an empire
@@Jonra1 he seems to be good at playing side villains that fly just below ur radar.
Also one of the members of SEAL Team Six in "Zero Dark Thirty."
Murdering an unarmed man in a church was a pretty big hint that this wasn't exactly a good guy story.
If he'd been unarmed Robert wouldn't have been able to kill him with his own knife.
@@Hiddenronin Exactly. He killed Comyn with his own blade in this scene.
@@krismikewill but not in history
Real good guys don't put their honor above their people's survival and freedom.
@@andrewnavarro1185 said no one 😂 honor was never a cause to win it was a reason to live, but it was destroyed because of England and Rome but many people like my ancestor Comyn didn’t expect to get stabbed in sacred grounds fs
Just pointing out that Callan Mulvey’s Scottish accent is on point!
Amazing, how does he do it? Up there with Jonny Lee Miller/Sick Boy
I thought that was Drazic!
@@williamarmstrong8337 Jeezo, I honestly didn’t even see that connection 😂 Heartbreak High!
The accents generally in the film were excellent, Chris Pine made a fine attempt, he broke a few times, usually when raising his voice, but that's understandable and acceptable. The one i was really impressed with was Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Black Douglas. I didn't realise it was 'Kick-Ass' until the end of the film. I thought his accent was remarkable. He nailed it.
@@scottw.3258 I'm the same mate, I watched Outlaw King in the Edinburgh Filmhouse so I got a pleasant surprise too when his name turned up. One particular line of his sounded so natural as a Scotsman, When Longshanks kicks Douglas out and you hear Douglas saying 'He can't do that, he's just slandered my name' - It was perfect!!
That’s what happens when you threaten Sigma Robert The Bruce’s grindset.
2015 called ... they want their joke back
Thats not a joke from 2015@@BananenbaumEY
How underrated was Robert's quickness in grabbing Comyn's dagger and stabbing him. Fantastic.
Watch your mouth when threatening a mans downfall. People are touchy about that.
Its weird watching Netflix make an adaptation of your ancestor being killed and then have everyone say he deserved it in the comments .-.
Would you like to meet in a church and we can discuss it?
@@Ryan-rk3hs hmm , church's are sacred grounds. I don't see what could go wrong 🤷
Weird watching netflix make an adaptation of your ancestor KILLING a man and having everyone say that man deserved to die. Aye what's up? Just found out I'm related to robert way down the line.
@@brookoffthehook5166 fuck you and your clan ;)
@@spencer6709 lmao, bootlicker
John Comyn was my 24th or so great Grandfather...😭😭
Comyn… never again allow yourself to desecrate the sacrifice of the greatest hero of freedom in history !
>Robert the Bruce kills John Comyn in bad faith and on sacred ground
>Expects the English to fight honourably after
he never expected them to fight honorably. In fact if i remember right it was the English king that wrote a letter whinging to the pope about how the scots were doing guerilla warfare instead of meeting in open combat
@Thomas Hoffman yes and england got fucked at that as well
@@humdunkin328 I don't think you people saw the movie. Robert the Bruce fully expected Chivalry in the show and got his ass whooped in the early parts because he was honorable.
@Thomas Hoffman After which, in the movie he expected chivalry and got his ass whooped and curbstomped in the early parts.
@@EzekielDeLaCroix The movie got it wrong, grats, you're about 2 years late.
What everybody doesn't know is John Comyn was a beast of a guy and also a great warrior who stopped the biggest Army of 30 thousand English to Invade Scotland. The English separated into 3 Army's of about 10k in each probably to cover more ground and collect more loot, Luckily for us John Comyn expected another invasion and was prepared with only 8 thousand Scots. The Scots done a sneak attack on first army and totaly wiped them out, A few survivors managed to escape to the English 2nd camp and say what had happened. The Scots seeing the 2nd Army approaching armed themselves with better weapons left over from first English Army and prepared for battle again, it lasted few hours but eventually Scots took another Victory. They where celebrating when news of a 3rd Army was on way. John Comyn knew to retreat would turn into a bloodbath for the Scots. So John Comyn gave a brilliant speech to the remainder of his Army of how Scotland had never been Conquered and how our Ancestors where watching their exploits and with that the Scots where ready for one last battle. It was a brutal 3rd battle which lasted as long as previous 2 but eventually Scots took a 3rd victory. Robert The Bruce always down played John's role in The Battle Of Roslin but after all they hated each other. In reality though it was a huge victory for John Comyn. Roslin was a bloodbath captured English from first battle all got killed by the Scots when they saw the 2nd English Army approaching as Scots didn't have enough man power to guard them plus fight so nobody was spared. I honestly don't know why The Battle of Roslin never gets spoke about but there's a few well made videos on TH-cam about it. Look it up 🏴
th-cam.com/video/Wu_LiTBbUew/w-d-xo.html
Link to The Battle Of Roslin above. John Comyn is just as much a Patriot than Wallace or The Bruce. His story would make a great Film
@@davidwallace4416 yes thank you , im related to them and hate how they've been portraited!
@@spencer6709 The Bruce family played down John Comyns leadership and winning all 3 battles coz they hated each other. Most of what we know comes from England as The Bruce obviously destroyed all Documentation of the battle once he became King. But John Comyn is up there with Wallace and The Bruce as heroes to Scotland. We need a film of John Comyn and he was a very tough fighter and very powerful. Your welcome btw, I only write truth Pal as best to my Knowledge. 👍
Well said all!
To John Comyn! The real hero of scotland!
And may that traitor Bruce rot in his dishonor and treachery for all time.
This is why you don't give away your plans before the fact
I made the same mistake as Comyn did, told my enemy to their face that I was gonna go over their head. I too paid dearly for it
well that escalated quickly.
This is such a poweful scene
Wasnt quite like this, John was known for his shouting and provoking moods. Robert was wounded by John after dueling in the Church. Robert and John were bothe sorely wounded. It was Kirk Patrick who finished John off after being ordered to from the wounded Bruce.
"I Mak Siccar"
Hence forth, Bruce will be branded a coward and a gelding. Only the truly stupid will believe differently.
A destructive idea is not always a bad one.
Wondering why would Robert Bruce get mad at Comyn casting Wallace's name aside if neither Comyn nor Wallace were in the same side of the Bruce family regarding to the claim to the Scottish throne. Besides, why would John Comyn demean or dismiss Wallace's name if in the end Wallace fought for John Balioll's position as king hence for the Comyn family's interest, being Balioll John Comyn's uncle.
I don't think he was mad at him denouncing Wallace's name but more like Robert killing a person who was a threat to him, his rebellion, and his family.
" You bled with Wallace, come bleed with me!" ( king Roberts de Bruce's words).
somehow I doubt it happened that way. 😂😂😂
@Ardyn Pretty sure altar boys got stabbed by something in a church :)
If one feels threatened…then one should approach thyself in person. For fools owns the air, and men own the ground.
WORHY. DO NOT SPEAK OF WORTHY TO ME AGAIN.
You talk yourselves up to be “landlords”…you are peasants with property. You talk of grace and royalty as if you payed for it, you fucked up the planet through your aged ignorance and now we have to solve the problem. You stand high on a cusp of might yet no one has ever offered me a fight. You are cowards, bible bashers, and the end of civilisation yet it be upon those who reign to grasp there dicks and vaginas with dignity and pride, in knowing they got to their position through ranks not austerity. Shame on you, for I am Thor and I see clear as the light of day. You retrabated lonesome idiots.
*England will remember that*
*Your relationship with the Kingdom of England has deteriorated from 0 to -40*
We need a film about John Comyn.
the blasphemous scotland king
Intrigue skill too low
Crusader Kings?
Yes
Prelude to the Douglas larder.
The Bruce gets a bit of a pass in this scene. It was murder. Not that being a Cummins has anything to do with my opinion.
People say this movie portrays The Bruce as an objective hero with no faults, yet he literally just fucking murderered a dude in church because it helped his cause.
Did those people even watch the movie?
You forgot the fact that dude was actually planning to betray Bruce and backstab him by telling the king about his message. Some people underestimate treason and betrays a lot.
@@Velshin1986 "Betray" implies that they were ever friends. This dude was a rival, who came to this meeting to hear him out and decide what he wanted to do about the situation in a church of God, where no Christian would ever commit murder. And two scenes after this, he gets himself crowned the King of Scotland without even trying to hide his crime. This wasn't some coldly calculated execution of a traitor, this was the murder of a countryman purely so that he didn't have any more rivals for the crown he'd already decided to take.
@@NoBody-lj5xh You missed my point. My point is John was planning to overthrow Bruce and kill him by reporting his message to the king. What you want Bruce to do? shake his hands and wait for John to report the issues to the king so he gets captured and executed?
@@Velshin1986 I'm not saying the action was unwarrented, but inviting someone to talk about politics peacfully in a fucking church of all places, KNOWING that he doesn't like you, and then murdering him when he, surprise, doesn't like the idea of leading his family into war just so that you can be his king is a very "anti-hero" move at best, not exactly the kind of thing a perfectly stand-up guy would do.
@@NoBody-lj5xh By your logic if I see someone who doesnt like me and he is preparing a knife to kill me I shouldnt react and defend myself at all? because in this scene this is exactly what happened. Yes he wanted to discuss politics peacefully but when the other guy threaten to tell the king about his plans which will not just kill Bruce but his family as well? of course he had to act swiftly.
My ancestor
It's doubtful Robert was actually that reasonable. He probably just walked in shouting, "For Scotland I kill thee!" And there were others present not shown here.
Yeah but he's the main character in this film so you have to make him sympathetic. Honestly, how do you make your main character murder someone and remain favourable by the audience? They did it pretty well, in my opinion.
@@immortaljanus it was hard to watch... but leaving him alive.. sigh.. I'm glad I didn't have to make those kind of decisions. But at least he was very honest about it.
well we actually have no idea why Robert killed him, one theory( the one they used) was Robert was trying to raise a rebellion and tried to have comyn on side. or bruce invited him there to murder him so nobody else could contest his claim.
The "good guy" throughout history often has to be airbrushed a little as what constituted a good person in those days would seem like just "less of a bastard" by modern standards. William Wallace would enter a town and demand soldiers, anyone able-bodied who refused were hung from trees as a warning that you can either fight for him or die, you couldn't put that wee fact in Braveheart. Similarly Hector in the Iliad was more arrogant than Achilles was, in fact the reason Achilles was able to kill him is because Hector wore Achilles' stolen armour as an insult and Achilles knew it had a weak spot above the heart, all of this was omitted from the movie Troy.
We movie watchers like our heroes to have as few blemishes as possible, no vices, no bad habits and definitely no bad attitude, it's probably only westerns that show the good guys as they truly were, warts and all.
@@krashd Well said.
Nobles and knights didn't wear chainmail all the time you know. If you met one wearing it off the battlefield it probably meant trouble. For one thing it's really heavy and uncomfortable.
Not always. Edward wore his as part of daily attire even when not at war.
Robert validating his action in betraying William...
This was such a good and well done movie. The king was horrible but this was fantastic.
What did you dislike about The King? I actually enjoyed both.
@GoogleJanniesEatPoop I was not so about kings fighting with his posture indeed. Not sure about the battle, justs think the aesthetics and flow of combat looks realistic. About the historic details I have no clue.
The king was way better than this
0:45 Vikings in a nutshell 😭💀
He stabbed him with his own dagger damn
The truth they got into a fight Bruce nearly killed him, as he left the church Kirkpatrick asked Bruce, "di you kill him" Bruce no so Kirkpatrick said " well I'll gaun mak sikkur" meaning I'll go make sure and he finished him off it's now the Kirkpatrick clans motto with a bloody dagger.
Comyn had a very reasonable stance. I like the moral grey of this scene.
I mean you made that pretty easy for him
I still feel like Robert should've dragged him outta the church before stabbing Comyn, it would've made things less messy for the future but he didn't do that.
It doesn't matter if he killed him in the church, or the church's steps yet not inside, murder is murder, yet one could argue this was not murder but a form of self and familial defense. For the man was going to have him and his family presumably killed, if he let him live it would've been as if he was murdered himself. No sin is made more egregious on holy ground than if it were committed else where, God does not see sin in such a way, man does.
Or god doesn't exist and you just wrote a paragraph of pure non-sense.
@@drg8687 I don't personally believe in god, at least not the Christian idea of god, but theological discussions can still be interesting I think. They can reveal things about how we think and see the world, for example I agree with Minuteman that god wouldn't distinguish between murder committed in one place or another and that that's a very human idea.
The difference is that killing him on holy ground would not only be murder, but would also be an insult against god. In those days murder was bad, but murder could be forgiven, insulting god on the other hand was unforgivable - that is why he was ex-communicated. By killing Comyn in a church he effectively pissed on everything that his peers believed in and that caused him a lot of trouble in the coming years.
@@krashd excuse me; " in tose days murder was bad"?
@@a.r.8987 Yes, it has been for around 7,000 years or so.
"Threatens?!"
*Il make sure.*
In real life they both brought their crews and when Comyns guys found out what happened a skirmish broke out and his men where killed as well. Would've made for a better scene don't know why they didn't want more action in the movie especially since it's historically accurate.
they deleted that scene because director said too much battle already
The Bruce did what he had to do !!!!!!! Once he knew what the letter meant, he was a liability not an ally !!!!!!!! John Comyn had to go ..........
I liked the part when John Comyn said "Robert, it's you! You are the outlaw king!"
Watch The battle of Roslin, Scottish war of independence 1303 AD to see who the true King of Scotland should have been. Not Bruce.
"You keep what you kill" was the Scottish way historically.
Couldnt agree more. The Comyns were the last great independent clan in Scotland. Then Bruce betrayed us all and then fooled you all into believing he had any integrity. #destroyallbrucestatues
It's a good idea to kill someone in a church. Then you just need to bring a casket, put the body in the casket, and you can start the funeral right away. Lean supply chain management.
Chris Pine is The Man Callan Mulvey is The Man too
outlaw king is the ONLY good netflix movie it actually is a good movie and almost feels like a sequel to Braveheart
Beasts of No Nation and The King are pretty solid movies. Especially Beasts.
@@OweeReviews “DO YOU WANT TO FIIIIIIGHT”
@@OweeReviews Didn't like The King at all, it was so slow burning that it became boring, plus the battle scene was terrible.
@@MrFuzzydumplings I enjoyed it, but Outlaw King is miles better.
What did he mean by you Bruces are allways the same?
Theyre all snakes. Cowards and villians, the lot.
John Comyn the Red hero of the Battle of Roslin
John never should have said what he said or he would still be alive.
I don’t think he would still be alive tbh, given that the murder occurred in 1306
And that was script, not history. Propaganda for the numerous idiots populating the world. Learn something .
Generally a good film. Shame about Loudoun Hill. No lances in the English charge and Edward's presence is stupid.
Don't know alot about Pine, what nationality is he ? x
He's American.
@@Eddie-lm3jf good acting of getting the Scottish accent down then x
I wonder if they kept in the fact that Comyn abandoned Wallace during the battle of Falkirk. Would make Comyn badmouthing Wallace even more of a piss off. The event was referenced in Braveheart.
Braveheart cant be trusted as a historical document its 90% fake
Eye and Wallace was a giant of a man? Which was true.
God almighty! Stop thinking that movies are history. Grow the eff up.
Try reading something. Not all truth comes from Hollywood.
It was Robert the Bruce who knighted William Wallace, so I can't say I'm surprised how this turned out
But is this really correct for sure? All i can get is "Its not sure who knighted him" " no proof if Wallace ever met Bruce" But then John Balliol was captured 1296 and Wallace became guardian of scotland 1297 or 98. Maybe it could only be Robert that knighted him 🤔
@@DudeSweet317 the author James Mackay worked it out in his book "William Wallace: Braveheart" that it must've been the Earl of Carrick. Robert the Bruce's mother was Marjorie Countess of Carrick, which means it was either her husband (who would've been Earl of Carrick by marriage) or her son the future King Robert the Bruce who knighted William Wallace, as he would've inherited the position when his parents died.
@@edinscot56789 👍
@@edinscot56789 you seem to be having a lot of knowledge about this, there were 6 battles in the independence war untill Robert finally succed right? Wallace and Robert must have been fight them all 6 together right ? except the 7th What ive seen Robert took part in battles later. Im not sure about this rly. I know the movie is rly unaccurate so :P But did Robert ever stand on England side ?
@@DudeSweet317 Well it wasn't easy for Robert. He had English lands, such as being the Earl of Huntingdon (which was in Cambridgeshire) and was beholden to a man called Bishop Beck who was a right-hand man of King Edward in Northern England, where Robert also had lands. Plus he was half-Norman, half-Briton so he wasn't actually a Scot; but he did have bloodline ancestry to King David I of Scotland through his paternal Great-Grandmother Isobel of Huntingdon (ironically) as King David I granted the Earldom of Huntingdon to Robert's ancestors through marriage.
Robert fought against Wallace at Falkirk. Not like in Braveheart, he actually fought in the battle itself. He even managed to wound him, but after the fighting ended he sought him out and tried to persuade Wallace to come into Edward's peace. He must've felt about about striking him, I guess. Shows a lot of courage on the Bruce's part that he'd go after Wallace and talk to him after having just wounded him in battle. My feeling is he could've killed him but didn't want to and held back. Instead Wallace persuaded Bruce to finally break free of Edward's grip once and for all.
Bruce was oath-bound to serve Edward at Falkirk. In those days you can't break your oath or your word or you'd be outcast. Bruce asked Edward to be free of his oath to him after Falkirk and Edward released him, albeit he kept a close eye on him for a long time afterwards.
This is all based on the account of Henry the Minstrel, taken from a book 'William Wallace: Robin Hood Revealed'
This is where my clan motto comes from "I make sure"
Your motto originated from a murder in a church? That’s a shame.
@@jimbobhk2009 the putting down of a traitor is always a good deed. God detests a traitor.
It's Ollie Again isn’t the history fuzzy on that? Seems like Bruce just wanted to limit the competition
@@jimbobhk2009 and what a fine job he did of limiting the competition.
It's Ollie Again indeed, he was very calculating.
As a descendant of King Robert the Bruce, I wholeheartedly believe John Comyn got what he deserved.
Yeah man, and I'm Edward Longsganks great(x20) grandson.
Comyn was as big of a hero as Bruce.
As a descendant of john the red comyn, read up on some of our damn history this random show isn't quite how it went down.
Yeah this scene made me realize that 'nobles' are just glorified gangsters
So is this how the netflix is trying to justify Bruce? A poor scene and a poor movie. Robert Bruce is a Scottish legend, but one should not forget that at the beginning of his rise there was a despicable murder.
Man my ascenter was stupid
Who was that
@@ballsack6547 john the red
@@sunwukong1443 not being rude but are you Chinese ? Or is that just a YT name mate ? Interested that's all.
The historical inaccuracy just kills me. Stop trying to make Bruce the reasonable one in this incident. The same guy who defended Carlisle castle against the Scottish is suddenly all about the good of the nation? Don’t make me laugh, the Comyns were more loyal Scots than Bruce ever was; he just wanted a crown.
Well at least it's an improvement over Braveheart
Initially Bruce was just all about the crown, he changed sides several times in order to back his weaker opponent against his stronger opponent and even sided with the English at one point just to get closer to his crown (though he never fought for them as depicted in Braveheart). However once he heard of Wallace's execution it became as much about taking back the country as it was about being crowned as he knew the rebellious uproar against the English following Wallace's death would give the English cause for a full invasion.
Thank you for speaking highly of my ancestors !
And the Battle of Bannockburn is a minor detail?!
Robert the Bruce is praised as a hero but luring your rival to a church and stabbing him to death is the ultimate villain move
Real heroes don't put their honor above their people's survival and freedom.
@@andrewnavarro1185 This!
@@andrewnavarro1185 you truly believe that’s what honor is then your sick in the head only people that died were the warriors, why does honor involve freedom and survival when a war for freedom is being fought by lords and soldiers not everyone is involved. Because it’s pointless to be fighting over petty reasons such as freedom when all should be free, no matter what wars back then were not really justified.
@@TFinna You call me sick in the head, but say, "it’s pointless to be fighting over petty reasons such as freedom." Your words are meaningless.
@@andrewnavarro1185 you really are sick if you agree that having to fight for freedom is good then rethink your lifestyle bud because no one on this planet should have to fight for freedom and if they do then the country they are in is corrupt and deserves to fall. Just because they fought for freedom it doesn’t mean it was good or what should’ve happened, I can tell your a child or a child in a grown man’s body. Believe it or not I descend from John Comyn and you think you can talk about this with me. They are my people and I know for a fact that they only fought for freedom because they had no choice, because Robert the Bruce forced them to and because England was being unfair
Seriously the only good movie on Netflix. Full of suprises.
Actually the real way he died wasn't like this. Rob snuck up behind him and slit his throat while he was praying in his own chapel. A cowerdly kill.
Were you there?
@@freddiefletcher2497 as opposed to your citation? An effing movie? Go away.
ERRONEOUS
Not very realistic. Whenever I stab someone in the throat it's much messier than that. And they don't just stare wide eyed at me and collapse. Usually they go Ow Ow Ow, that really stings, what the fuck did you do that for! Meanwhile they are spunking claret all over the place and getting really upset. Then they gurgle abit and keel over. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong. I've taken to wearing a cagoule when I'm feeling stabby, Peter Storm or Regatta are good cos they're cheap and keep the blood off the tweeds. After I've calmed down I give the soiled clothing to charity. It's the Christian thing to do.