Can You Wait in a Yellow Box?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2021
- After some of my recent videos I've realised some of my viewers are a little confused about the rules of a yellow box junction. In this video I try and clear up any confusion.
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I have had 2 tickets for stopping in a yellow box. The first they sent "photographic evidence" which clearly showed me in 2 different positions, the first at the start of the box, the second at the end.
I appealed saying that their evidence clearly showed that I had not stopped. The rejected the appeal, went to arbitration and won.
The second, I was turning right, once again they sent a photo, I appealed saying I was turning right and referenced the highway code clause. This time I won without arbitration.
It makes me wonder how much money is made from people who can't appeal, can't be bothered to appeal or just don't know the rules and accept they were to blame but were not...
It's a big issue since Local Authorities have been allowed to take over enforcing these things. The LAs are assumed to be correct regardless of the actual laws, and you have to jump through hoops to prove your innocence rather than them proving your guilt.
Most people will pay it as they dont want the hassle and get given the carrot of half price if you pay quickly. I dont think that concept of a discount should be allowed as it puts people off challenging it.
@@cynic-al Yep, financial incentive to cough up like a good cash cow!
An enormous amount of drivers will give up at the first hurdle and pay. The LA will typically reject appeals knowing that folk can't be bothered with arbitration process and losing the discount on the fine.
There should be a compensation payment made for the time / stress of fighting a pcn that was issued in error.
Some people behind you will honk their horns when the light turns green at a yellow box junction despite your exit being blocked.
Yep, and my response is, "where do you want me to go? Move 10ft only to stop again?"
I usually turn around and give them a big cheery wave and a smile.
This happens to me every time I drive in London. If anyone horns at me, I give them the two-finger salute.
Yes, I feel your frustration on this one
@@RichO1701e But you should move forward past the stop line and wait before entering the yellow box. That will stop the beeping.
On my way home from work I would pass a fire station on on the left corner of a round-a-bout. The road was always busy at this time & split into 3 lanes (left, straight/right & right) just about in the yellow boxed entrance to the fire station. The yellow lines were faded but totally invisible to most motorists. I often thought I hope its your house on fire when an engine was trying to get out. One day the lines were repainted & looked resplendent, strangely they still remained invisible to many motorists. A couple of days after the painting as I queued towards the junction I noticed that the yellow box was remaining unusually empty. It transpired that a police car was sitting on the forecourt of the fire station. Odd how a police presence can improve eyesight. It did rather confirm my suspicion that many people are just inconsiderate tw*ts.
Lots of people need reminding of these rules including myself ( I have been driving 40 years but never too old to re learn or reinforce stuff that might become a little vague in my mind.
Me too. I knew you could enter and stop to turn right but didn't know you could do so behind another vehicle waiting to turn right.
I agree most people don't look near a highway code the minute they pass their test. Another reason I think there should be mandatory re testing every ten years. The other one that springs to mind is an Amber light means Stop, not prepare to slow or to speed up, but Stop.
@@DasArab stop if its safe to do so which most times it should be because you should slow down ready for anything at lights inc people going through red lights lol.
@@DasArab That's the subject of another excellent video by Ashley.
@@PedroConejo1939 yep I watched that one yesterday.
I agree on the retest every 10 years but it's never going to happen unfortunately I don't think.
I think monitoring peoples driving will become more common with black boxes that report back to insurance companies and will affect the premium for bad driving or good driving respectively, not a nice thought but our cars will be capable of driving themselves so not a stretch to have them judge us on our driving and even report us for some things for fines.
I remember having this drummed into me by my instructor.
One thing I did learn is the ONLY prevented by oncoming traffic. In other words, if there is a queue in the lane you plan to exit into which would prevent you leaving the box even if there were no oncoming traffic, you should not enter.
I suppose, if you were to enter behind another vehicle which was also waiting you should first determine that the other vehicle could not only leave the junction but also move far enough beyond the junction for you to clear the box too.
Talking of clearing boxes - lets hope the lads are 100% successful in doing so at Wembley tomorrow:)
I'm always wary of being the second car into a box. What if the car ahead stalls when the lights change? By the time he moves, others are coming at you from the sides, not a good situation. Also, if the oncoming traffic is mostly turning left, they can fill your exit, leaving you nowhere to go, despite it being clear when you entered the box. Uncomfortable. Local knowledge can help planning. Hopefully an escape ahead is available. If this is likely, not entering may be the best option, but could result in a long wait if it repeats at the next light sequence.
There's a box outside a fire station next to Swindon's Magic Roundabout that regularly gets filled. No turnings, just a straight ahead.
After my first £60 penalty I never risked it again lol. I was only half on the box too.
Well I got a very good video of a idiot hitting me, some 1 creeping in to yellow box junction on red, my lights turn green and I go straight and I get hit, oh and the person says it’s all my fault, going through insurance with cctv and this person not got a leg to stand on, aswell trying to get me ring a insurance scam number were you listen to bull on phone cos got it checked, i rang police and fraud and both insurance, so it’s bye bye to the fool soon should not be driving at all
Hi Ash I've been driving HGVs for over 20 years but have come across some situations where the rules can't be followed. As the topic is about box junctions having a space clear is sometimes difficult for long vehicles as the traffic never clears enough to allow you to proceed. One example was in South London where traffic from the left would always fill the space before I'd get a chance to move into it. I've had to in some cases stop in the box junction otherwise I would never get across. I can't wait all day for a space and I'm sure the drivers behind me would let me know if I did.
Appreciate any feedback thanks.
He did a video teaching his son to drive a while back where a similar thing happened. After a few light phases they just had to proceed otherwise they’d have been stuck forever.
If you let a few light cycles pass (easy to comment when I don't have a tight schedule to keep to, I understand) then you should be able to present your reasoning for doing it if a camera fines you. They should have CCTV for junctions like that, although if you can get your own witness in the form of a dashcam for incidents like that, it would probably be better for you.
From other comments, they might not care and want you to take it further yourself. The 'option' to that would probably be record yourself arrive at that junction and wait until a gap actually opens up, or what's probably more likely, police show up to deal with the traffic blockage of you being unable to cross the junction legally, but you'd need to have a full day for that and police would probably fine you for blocking traffic saying you should have just moved even if you couldn't make it across fully, Ashley's approach on that video Nick mentions, a lose lose situation it would seem.
I agree. Life as portrayed by the highway code and the dsa is not so clear cut in real life
@@matttiii42 Quite agree. The manual I think it is called Driving,is very vague on many aspects. So is the Highway Code. And many other books by so called professional drivers. When I was a driving instructor. I had people failed for not stopping at a pedestrian crossing with centre island. Yet other people failed for stopping. It is to be treated as two separate crossings.But you can’t tell a Driving examiner that.
You also here the situation in London that when you start to move there is room to get out of the box, but some f**ker out accelerates you and changes lane stealing your space.
( my coach is no slouch but its not hard to beat me off the line)
My defence would be it was clear to exit when I entered but I suspect the company would just pay it and pass it on to me through a pay deduction without appealing
I've always been confident with that rule about right turning, the problem is usually others who do not and get frustrated (polite term used) thinking I'm in the wrong.
I can't recall having ever seen someone not enter a box junction when the lights are on green. It's usually the opposite problem: people enter the box junction when there exit isn't clear, or try to bully others into entering the box junction when it's not safe to do so.
3:46 - Matiz thinks that it is a bike.
Just got to that as your comment came up 😂
Technically run a red light
It's so much smaller than the stupid softroaders now, I think it applies. Just needs to cock a wheel and pretend it's a pedal-powered Reliant Robin :)
I'd rather have a bike, in the rain and going uphill than have to drive one of those!
@@jo2952 I think you can stop in these 'advanced stop junctions' if there isn't a cyclist using it but if have to double check the highway code
You can tell from the comments that the people who need to watch don't and those who don't, do!
Passed my test like 10 years ago, and your channel still teaches me well. Glad I found it
So glad you cleared this up Ashley as it's so frustrating when people will hold back from the yellow box even though the exit is clear. Keep up the good work 👍
Pet hate; when someone from lane two which isn't good to clear, abruptly changes lanes and jumps into the space where you are in lane one which is clear at the moment you've set off to use the space Infront, leaving you stranded.
Happens far too frequently & I'm sure those who jump the gun think they're amazing. I have other words for them which never leave the cabin of my car.
Yup, I hate this too. It’s even worse for longer vehicles, because they need a bigger gap to open up on the exit, and it just encourages selfish people to dive into the gap while the long vehicle waits for it to get bigger
I often cite laws in different countries that we could learn from and this is an American one: it is illegal (I think in every state) to make a lane change within the confines of an intersection/junction. Sounds good to me.
It can get very tricky when you're waiting to turn right and cars coming the other way turn left and then lengthen a queue to the point that your exit is no longer clear. I've had one or two tense moments like that.
Driving home through a diversion because the motorway was shut, the weather was hot, traffic was heavy and people were impatient. Came up on a small yellow box marking and kept it clear for people coming the other way to turn right in front of me. The road was two lanes on my side and I was in the second lane. Guy to my left thought he'd be clever entering the box in front of me with his right indicator on (there was no turning for us) until a police car came up the other way to turn and was blocked by him.I guess the copper had better things to do than hand out penalty notices but if looks could kill I would have been witness to a murder.
A similar look to that from my wife when I was honest answering one of “those” questions. I’m divorced, but still alive lol
Great video once again. Has long been one of the things that irritate me on the road as it causes unnecessary hold ups when people don't know how to treat yellow boxes. Also the silver car that pulled up to the wrong line when sitting at the light, unless you have different looking bicycles there in Liverpool 😂
Thks for explaining yellow box junction rules. I practiced some on my last lesson and it's getting more easier to under them
Wow, that cleared up a junction on my commute that I normally avoid on account of the yellow box and a speedy light change.
Wow, this will definitely be useful to me on my next visit to the UK. Thanks for the tips, mate.
At a junction in Brixton I learned a valuable lesson when I got 2 PCNs for waiting in a yellow box on two following days. i was tired and also cut up by cars who came in from the left where a bus lane starts just after the yellow box essentially stopping me in said box.
One scenario which is difficult at yellow box junctions is when it's really busy and 'cross' traffic keeps filling up your exit so you never have a chance unless you tag onto the end of the que with your rear wheels in still in the box.
Also, I didn't realise that you could enter a box if the person in front is also turning right - always worth watching videos like this. Thanks Ashley!
One worry is that you enter the box junction to turn right, in good faith as the road was clear when you checked, but then some of the oncoming traffic that you need to wait for turns left into the road you want, clogging it up. (Maybe there are pedestrians crossing near the junction…) Could be tricky to prove you were entitled to enter it when you did, as enforcement policy seems to be to send everyone a ticket and hope people don’t appeal!
Hi Ashley. as always perfectly explained. When i was teaching i also used the 2 car rule when turning right, alas not all instructors know about it.
Thank you for your fantastic explanation on this matter.
5:48, blooming learners lol.
Well presented. Love your videos, and will be binge watching soon, a week of teaching my last child to drive.
I remember something like this coming up during one of my lessons before. Although at the time I didn't really understand as it confused me and I forgot to bring it up later. Thanks for the clarification.
A problem occurs at rush hour when the road you are joining is full of traffic and your exit is never clear because other traffic is queuing in the box. You can obey and wait for rush hour to finish or filter into the box trying not to block the junction. I seem to recall this situation on one of your previous videos.
Esp at T Junctions where turning vehicles are taking up all the space.
In Melbourne Australia, where that scenario is common, then at peak times that junction becomes a 'No Right Turn'. It's not great, but a vast improvement on continuous blocking of the junction.
@@kevinmartin2516 A bit of common sense, good to hear it still exists somewhere in the world.
I think the fact that you cannot see the other end of the yellow box junction makes the markings non-compliant with the regulations, even if they are OK any ticket issued would be difficult to enforce.
As an aside, it should be pointed out that the white 'Keep Clear' markings are advisory only.
" keep clear " You should interpret as a place where traffic is highly likely to cross your path.
'Keep Clear' is advisory insofar as you can't get a penalty charge/fine for blocking a junction with those markings but I'm fairly confident it's frowned upon, as is blocking turnings generally. I certainly wouldn't do it on a driving test...
@@MartinParnham "keep clear " is a potential accident zone more like.
I think your assertion on this box junction is totally correct. If it is not possible to see your exit you cannot know if it is clear or not. Therefore it would follow that a prosecution would not stand up in court. The council probably has had markings laid out in this manner to discourage queueing as if you see a vehicle stopped in the box ahead you should deduce your exit is not clear and not enter the box. The box might continually have one or two vehicles in it being driven by people who could not see the situation from their initial vantage point until a queue builds up.
You can get a ticket for blocking an intersection even without a yellow box. A yellow box junction is no different from any other junction. It is not legal to block any junctions with or without a yellow box.
I've always understood this the same way and as far as I knew applied just as much to straight ahead or left turns as it does to right turns.
If traffic is queuing beyond the yellow box blocking your exit, don't enter. Obviously with right turn you have the added complication of on coming traffic but so long as your intended exit itself is clear, enter the box and wait for either an appropriate gap in oncoming traffic, or oncomming to stop completely, then continue through your clear exit.
Used to wind me up, especially driving in London, with people sitting in the box with the exit not clear. Lights change and you can't move because some clown is parked in the middle of the junction.
I will say that taking charge of the intersection on a right turn is one of the most crucial skills you can learn as a motorist. I see many people sit behind the line when the light is green waiting for oncoming traffic to clear out entering the intersection and executing the turn. This creates congestion at the junction and puts undue stress on the driver who must now both enter the intersection and execute the turn at the same time. By entering the intersection on a right, you've really divided the problem into two by making the decision to turn to be dependent on when oncoming traffic clears. If oncoming traffic doesn't clear and the lights change you can still turn since you entered the intersection on a green and therefore have right of way over other cars.
I see this on a daily basis, we have a junction nearby where cars don’t understand that crossing in front of traffic to turn right is very dangerous, they can’t see but carry on anyway, or they sit at the lights waiting for the other side to clear, very annoying when you’re stuck behind one of these rtr’s (right turn retards) when I was taught to drive you went round the rear of the vehicle so you could actually see if it was clear, unless directed by an officer or road markings, even on these marked junctions where it’s possible to fit 3 or 4 cars they still sit there stopping anyone else from turning
Thanks for the comment. There's a pesky right turn with a yellow box at Kings Cross which always cause me anguish. I'll make that turn with confidence now.
Absolutely. Following on from this, another crucial understanding is that traffic lights apply only to the solid white line to which they are associated. If the rear of your vehicle has crossed that line and the lights then turn red, you can simply treat it as a give way and proceed when it's clear.
I’ve hardly ever seen that, there must be many idiots where you reside…
@@sillybait1329 … rubbish! (Pass near side to near side when turning right)
Great video! Extremely informative! Shame the silver car who thinks they're a bicycle at 3:40 couldn't get a live feed.
Fun fact: I have only ever been involved in one road traffic accident before and ironically it was during a driving lesson when I was learning to drive. I stopped before the box junction and a van (who was more interested in his whatsapp) failed to realise this and ploughed into the back of us.
It was quite a strange incident and sadly my instructor at the time left the profession before I was able to pass to take up an entirely new job. Thankfully I got a new instructor and the injury payout I got from the claim I submitted (peak british culture) helped pay for the rest of my driving lessons until I passed so the story turned into quite the win in the end!
This was a really useful one thanks. I do wait in the yellow box when turning right but I wasn't sure it was correct. I have been standed many times on a pedestrian crossing when the lights turn red while queuing to enter a yellow box. In future I'll hold back before the cycle box as you demonstrated. Thx
I live in Aintree and it's great seeing Ashley use examples around my neighbourhood!
This is lambeth road and Stanley road
Hi Ashley. Many thanks for your videos. They have made me more conscious of my actions when I'm on the road.
You are so welcome!
@@ashley_nealAshley just watched your video and it’s up the road from me rice lane to the black bull, any way I got a video I would like you to watch cos I was in a bump it’s going through insurance cos other person saying it’s my fault, i no its not, I got council cctv sorting it out for my insurance, but this is a good 1 to watch, tell me who at fault ?
Problem I have with yellow boxes is that there are far too many drivers who just sit in them when the junction is blocked by busy traffic and if you do as you did then and don’t go forwards, then the light changes red again and more cars just go onto the box from the other direction and you end up going nowhere. It’s an one of them should be easy rules but it’s completely different in practice, especially if it’s busy.
I found a place where this rarely happens. It's Kingston. And it's not because they are good drivers, they aren't, it's because Kingston has cameras on every yellow box junction and they fine anybody that blocks one.
When laws are enforced people start following the rules, when they aren't people start to break them on routine, then you end up needing to break some rules just to get anywhere.
@@iniehawk4472 London wide If I recall correctly or at least potentially
yes it did help . this old dog is learning . cheers
London's a crazy place with camera's everywhere at these boxes, makes you terrified! Good reminder video.
I used to live near a box junction which had a right hand filter, where the filter light only came on if it detected traffic through a sensor in the junction.
If you follow the rules and enter when the exit is clear then it worked well.
It did not work so well when people didn't know the rules and waited before the traffic lights. If they didn't enter the box junction then the right filter light wouldn't come on and so you couldn't turn.
When I was being taught to drive, I was told that you can go into the yellow box, but ONLY if you are turning right at a junction. The reason for this is because you are not holding up traffic if you are turning right. The junctions boxes serve a purpose to stop drivers blocking a junction, primarily for emergency services to get past the junction in a safe way but also to stop the junction being blocked up by heavy traffic. If you are going straight ahead or left and the way is not clear, you should hang back.
holding up? I doubt they have anywhere to go in a hurry
3:38 of course the car next to you goes straight into the (very faded!) ASL when you're talking about where you can and can't stop!
And the tow cars in the ASL at 5:26
@@MelodeonTunes Possibly crossed the ASL on green and had to queue.
That driver could be fined £100 and receive 3 points on their licence for entering the ASL after the lights had turned red or amber. Yet how many drivers realise this or even know the rule at that point is poor as you see it all the time.
@@andyalder7910 naaah they had plenty of time
@@jo2952 The car to Ashley's left had plenty of time but my reply was to Lester Bailey 5:26 . We have no idea whether those two crossed the ASL on red or green since they were past it before they came into view.
Yes you can sit in a yellow box if you are turning right and your exit is clear, the amount of times I’ve missed a set of traffic lights because people don’t understand this is unreal!
I didn’t even need to watch the video before I posted my comment 😂
I think you mean you can sit in the box if turning right and your exit is not clear. I don't see how you'd get into the box and miss the lights only if you were entering slightly after a green was showing or an Amber was present in which case you entered at an inopportune time in my opinion causing you to sit in a box while the other set of traffic was set to go and you would be a hazard. So unless you got that wrong in what you said I think you're wrong.
@@MrMazza4321 I think he meant what he said. Some people will not go into the yellow box if there's oncoming traffic, but when the traffic stops coming you're lights are probably red now so you can't go anymore, so that vehicle in front is just causing blockage. That's how you miss a set of lights. Normally either they will ignore the rules they just made up themselves on the next green light or will be pushed by the horns coming from the cars behind.
@@kiradotee this was my point to what they said. For me if traffic has stopped due to a red and I'm in the box, I'll move out before the green. There is enough time I believe and is a far better thing to do than yo stay in the box.
I think @scottlaaa has got the situation all wrong in my opintion
Although I'd never find myself in that situation as I feel I'm a much more observant and patient driver.
@@MrMazza4321 You CANNOT enter a yellow box if your exit is NOT clear.
If you're turning right, you CAN enter the box if you're blocked by ONCOMING traffic ONLY ... you CANNOT enter it if your exit is blocked.
@@phillwainewright4221 Succinct and accurate.
Who the hell has given the thumbs down? The guy in the mini teaching his daughter.
Probably the person who question Ashley on whether it is safe for him to talk to a camera whilst driving. Ie. a professional who is used to talking to his pupils whilst concentrating on their driving and everyone else's around them!
@@cactusbase3088 Is he is still trolling with the same stupid question? I responded once and left links to Ashley's own video addressing the nonissue
At least Ashley wasn't a black unmarked police car hey?!
3:43 Wow, that bicycle on your left in the Advanced Stop Line is a type I've never seen before. It looks just like a car!
It's the same in New York City. You can't enter a yellow box unless you can pass all the way across and leave it. If you get stuck inside the box, it's a *_HUGE_* fine!
I stand corrected, that it depends on the situation. Thanks.
The thing I see quite frequently is cars turning right, sitting in the junction, waiting for the oncoming traffic to stop. The lights go red so the oncoming traffic stops, and then the turning car just sits in the middle of the junction, thinking the fact they can see a red light means they shouldn't move at all, when actually they should clear the junction as they are already way past the stop line.
until the council place after the junction ANOTHER set of lights, for pedestrians.
There's a junction near me that has two independent sets of traffic lights controlling the main West-East two-lane dual carriageway and an offset (by just over the length of a container lorry) North and South side roads.
The timings are such that at certain times of the day the West-East main road is stopped and the North and South roads go one after another and can continue turning right through the inner set of lights on the West-East road that are on green. At other times/conditions, the North and South roads go together and must stop at the inner set of lights.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been coming out either the North or South roads and have seen someone else carrying on through the red inner, or the outer red set because they can see the green inner set of lights, and across the front of me 😑
I always taught pupils to treat all junctions as box junctions, as well as 2 in the middle waiting to turn!
I haven’t personally had trouble with box junctions , but two scenarios I have heard of are
1) someone correctly proceeding on a green traffic light when their exit had sufficient room and , there being two lanes of traffic crossing the junction , someone from the lane alongside cut in front , taking the only space and leaving the driver stranded on the junction and getting a ticket .
Similar with a red light jumper coming from the other road and cutting off the only space .
2) I did once experience waiting to turn right , with the exit clear , then about three oncoming vehicles turned left , filling up the exit and leaving me nowhere to go ; I just had to sit there until they cleared - wasn’t a big problem and they moved a few seconds after the lights changed ; the driver coming out of the road to my right and who I was blocking , had seen what happened so waited patiently, no problem.
I'm old enough to remember these yellow boxes being introduced. There was a TV information campaign telling people how to behave that included all the points you mentioned, Ashley. Good video, thanks. Oh, by the way, family members/friends don't instruct, only instructors are allowed to do that. The mom&pops are accompanying the learner to gain experience.
I remember the ads. There was an animation which showed cars from above and they were saying that only the car with the yellow box on the roof could enter.
As a kid, I wondered why some cars would have yellow boxes painted on the top.
Gets my goat this. There are roadworks / temp cycle lane on a road (right turn) near here so it's down to one lane. There's been a massive local row as people are complaining that they are getting stuck in the yellow box and getting beeped at by other traffic once the other lights change. I have pointed it out that they shouldn't be in there if the exit is not clear but it falls on deaf ears.
After watching I now say I didn't know that, thank you for this information
Looks like some drivers don't understand the cyclist area at traffic lights either. I think anyone who knocks a cyclist off their bike, or drives to close to them, park illegally in bike lanes or uses the cyclist area at a traffic light needs 2-3 weeks enforced cycling on the roads to appreciate what it's like. In Holland, the respect between cyclists and car drivers is much better because most people use both and understand each other's needs.
What happens if you are in the box waiting to turn right and the exit gets filled up by oncoming traffic turning left?
Now that is a good question.
Good question!
The legislation only covers the situation at the moment you enter the box. So no offence is committed if it was clear at that time.
@@cargy930 So you need dashcam footage to prove the exit was clear when to entered the box.
@@euangregory445 There was a case on PePiPoo, where he was "caught" by stills from a CCTV camera, but was able to battle for the video when he actually entered the box. He got off.
But you can't beat having your own camera; they can't mislay it then, if you get me
There is a yellow box trap near me. Two lanes straight ahead that merge afterward on a T junction.
Clear ahead of you and someone pulls out of the side road, YOU get fined. Clear ahead of you and a car pulls into your lane when you’ve already started forward, You get fined.
Thanks for the video. I think a tricky situation is when you are in the yellow box to turn right and waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear. The road you are turning into is clear but then most of the oncoming traffic turns left into that road causing it to be backed up with traffic and you no longer have space to complete the turn and are stuck in the yellow box. This is especially bad if the new road has traffic lights close by and are red. You could be stuck in the yellow box for some time potentially blocking traffic.
That is a situation I see now and again at a junction which leads to a level crossing. About one third of the traffic coming the other direction will turn left down here and it can quickly get jam packed if the barriers go down, leaving right turning traffic stranded. Since I am usually on a bicycle I don't need to worry as I can always find enough space to proceed, but I do wonder how cars behind me cope.
I've never come across a situation as is shown at 5:13. Very interesting and brilliant example 👍
Nice explanation man , I think most people have forgotten the Highway code within 2 years of taking their test .
For the one on the bridge: if you can see it is clear as far as can be seen then you can enter, even if cars are on the box on the other side, from your point of view, the road was clear when you entered. The box just needs to be long enough to work in both directions
Very useful thanks.
We live in West Wales where we have no yellow boxes , thanks for useful info very instructional .
The other scenario in London, you approach a yellow box on a two lane junction to go straight ahead.
The box has a traffic camera with penalties if you actually stop in it.
Your lane has a space for one vehicle so you move forward into the box to take that space after the box and a driver in the other lane realises their lane is not moving and they have no space to go into then change lane with or without signalling now effectively blocking you from exiting the yellow box.
You will now receive a £100 penalty through the post and the council will totally ignore any appeal you make citing your vehicle was observed being stationary in a yellow junction box.
I like the example at 5:33 in you can see there are at least 3 vehicles in violation of the law that are blocking the 'yellow box' area.
There is a yellow box junction at the top of Bluebell lane, so many people pull into it and wait, rather than wait and allow traffic to flow including bises, they then get caught out when a bus is approaching and can't clear its turn.
Slight off topic,you may have mentioned in other video; but when turning right, only turn the steering when you can complete the maneouver. This happened to a work colleague, he was going straight on past a left turn, coming the other way there was a car waiting to turn right with the front wheels turned ready to make the turn. A vehicle went in to the back of the waiting car - pushing the car forward and into the path of my mates car.
On my test I approached a box junction, this one was a t junction. Turning right. I had to stop on the minor road at the give way point as there was traffic on approach both sides. There was a short limit point to my right due to bend on the main road. I elected to creep out, and needed to stop part way across box. When clear I continued. Examiner passed me no issues.
One of my pet hates is when you are waiting behind a yellow box waiting for the road ahead to clear, but a prick behind who wants to turn left starts flashing, gesturing, and beeping. And also the occassional prick - coughtaxidrivers-who overtake you while wiating and then sit in the box.
I was fined in Wood Green, London a few years ago by an automatic camera for this exact situation. I appealed but my appeal was turned down and I had to pay the fine. People should be aware that robots don't necessarily know the highway code
London is overly harsh when it comes to boxed junctions according to a friend who drives there a lot.
Here in Birmingham they might as well not have bothered painting them yellow as nobody takes any notice. Frequently it is police cars using them wrong.
Commenting with my understanding before watching (as a non-driver who sometimes cycles). Waiting is allowed, but you aren't allowed to enter the yellow box if you don't reasonably expect to be able to leave without waiting - so if you follow that rule you should only be waiting in the box if something unexpected happens.
Had that with a broken down lorry, and a police car flying by into my intended exit space.
That also includes right hand turns. If queuing is blocking your exit, you shouldn't enter hoping it will clear. You can move into the yellow box, if the exits clears enough for you to fit in the exit path.
As Ashley points out, if you are driving a large vehicle, you don't really have much of a choice but drive into it, otherwise you'd never get anywhere.
Having recently passed, I do remember reading in the Highway Code that you can enter a yellow box junction if turning right.
the full rule is that you can enter the box if your exit is clear. so yes you can, but don't do it if traffic in the road you are turning down would prevent you from exiting the box.
The problem I’ve come across in busy areas is when there’s queuing traffic in front past the yellow box, as well as on the road on the left, if you just hold back before the yellow box, the traffic from the left will continue to go first to fill up any space that has opened up past the yellow box so even if you go as soon as you see any movement, chances are the car from the left turning left will still go before you get there and fill that space so you end up stuck in the yellow box.
I just passed my test 2 weeks ago and found myself in this scenario yesterday. From my understanding, after watching this video, the yellow box has nothing to do with oncoming traffic - only my positioning in the yellow box. Regardless of whether there's oncoming traffic or not, I shouldn’t enter the yellow box unless my intended exit lane is clear to proceed through.
Now I just need to work on my positioning 👍
I was taught "never enter unless you know you can leave" when it comes to yellow boxes but may have misinterpreted that or forgotten what that actually meant in the mists of time! That's not to say I habitually ignore box junctions, I just may have thought I could clear one only to find out I couldn't...
I think when the yellow box junctions were first introduced (it's a long time ago!) they didn't give dispensation to be the second car in the turn right position i.e. it was a one-at-a-time rule.
The situation I'm always wary of is that your exit road may be clear at the time you enter the box but, with left turners in the oncoming traffic its all too possible to have your exit blocked by the time there is a gap in the oncoming traffic.
The remaining problem arises when entering the box for a right turn when the exit is clear. However, oncoming traffic turning left (into the clear area) fills up the space leaving the right turning vehicle with nowhere to go. Experiencing this and being flagged over by a police officer, I had to explain that I had indeed followed the rules, but could not guess about oncoming vehicles turning right. (Note that the first oncoming vehicle was not signalling left.)
The situation at the instant you enter the box is all the law is concerned with. If your exit was clear at that time, you've complied with the law regardless of how it changes after you have committed.
@@cargy930 Yes, but your probably unable to prove that to be the case, in which case you're stuffed. Unless you have a dash cam.
@@kevinmartin2516 Luckily, I have one for that very reason!
I remember encountering a yellow box in Luton town centre at 7.00am. Had to sit at the traffic light while it was on green, because my exit ahead was blocked by traffic. Driver behind me was beeping mad because i would not sit on the box. The lights changed to red just as my exit point was clearing. He drove around me and through the red light almost crashing.
There's an interestingly designed traffic light controlled yellow box junction near me. See: Green Pond Corner, Havant, PO92SB.
When travelling westbound on Emsworth Road there is a filter lane for turning right onto Southleigh Road. There is not a filter lane for eastbound traffic turning right into Pook Lane. The yellow box is only for westbound traffic and allows one car between the traffic lights and waiting to turn right.
Initially all lanes get a green light for both east and west bound traffic. Then the eastbound traffic lights go red, allowing the filter lane to turn.
If one waits in the yellow box to turn right into Southleigh Rd, eastbound traffic is blocked from turning right into Pook Lane and stops the entire flow.
You could have also highlighted how many vehicles were in the yellow box that should't have been, their exit was blocked but this re-inforces the point some people don't understand the rules.
5:46 I wonder if the passenger did the horn for the learner or instructed them to do that, very bizarre...
EDIT: Forget that, just noticed you said it was the other one behind. I've had people do retaliatory horns so thought that might be the case here.
Lol, I too thought it was a retaliation horn from the mini driver until Ashley said it was the car behind him.
@@philtabest i think the car behind was actually blasting at Ashley, and not at the mini 🤣 It doesn't make sense otherwise. Either way, it was aa fine example of impatience from broth Ashley, and the car behind him
@@TheSebiestor As Ashley said. His horn was used correctly to let the mini driver aware of his presence.
Is that Mini just casually crossing the intersection with a red light and why?
@@lukasmax6984 Because the person teaching them doesn't know the rules of the road. If they did they would never have allowed the driver to enter the box junction in the first place.
Excellent
Posting this before watching the video an after watching the intro, I was taught many years ago the rules were 'Do Not enter the box UNLESS your exit is clear', meaning you can enter even if you have to stop in the box until its safe to carry on provided your exit destination is clear at the time you enter.
ADDED on edit:
ALSO you can stop if turning left or straight on if something like an emergency vehicle turns up causing you to stop when you have entered the box as they have the obvious priority.
Also I was taught about the use of the horn which is basically ONLY used to warn that you are there NOT to tell someone off and lastly an off topic subject that should be discussed in one of these videos, that's 'flashing your headlights' or when 'someones flashing you to emerge or turn right'. I was taught to ignore these, may seem ignorant but I've seen no end of accidents caused through this. I was a biker in my teens and one of my school friends had a bad accident on his motor bike through someone flashing a car to turn right which he hit. I was taught by my instructor that anyone flashing their headlights at you is indicating like using the horn the statement 'I am here, make sure you notice me.' and not 'turn right its OK' as I'm sure if you cause a collision with someone else you can be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention, would the flasher also be prosecuted for causing the accident by making an illegal signal?
Some light changes and junctions you need to make use of every inch in the box so as many as possible can turn right when the lights change.
I’ve always (and I’ve been driving for more than 30 years) wondered what happens if you’re turning right, the exit is clear when you enter the yellow box, but then, while you are waiting for a clear road to turn, vehicles from the opposite direction turn left into the exit you are trying to take and fill it up so it’s no longer clear.
I can think of a junction this happens at regularly, right outside a police station.
I think the technical answer is, the decision point is when you enter the junction, so if conditions change after that it is just bad luck.
In the junction I mentioned, I would hold back if I thought it was likely and move forward if waw a gap coming up or the end of the phase is coming up and the exit is clear.
I think if the lights change and traffic coming from the right starts emerging, and you are now blocking it, the sensible thing to do would be abort your right turn and continue straight ahead.
I had this in London with red light cameras. Two cars pushed around me whilst I was entering and closed the exit so I stayed back and waited for the exit to clear. Got flashed by the red light camera but nothing ever came of it
Well when you entered the box your exit was clear, so you’re good. S%@t happens. I think the “L” mini that went in front of Ashley was caught by the layout of this junction, there’s a gap between the stop line at the light they crossed before the yellow box, and although it’s not illegal to cross this line while the box and or the exit is blocked it can often (as Ashley maintained) turn out to be “not the best decision”
I was thinking exactly the same thing and looking through comments to see if someone else had asked. I had assumed that the answer would be dependent on the situation when you entered the box but if caught out and later challenged by the authorities I am not sure how I would prove my case if I had to without a dash cam.
I had a guy who I used to work with who thought you could not enter a yellow box when turning right. We both drove minibuses and if I was following him somewhere and did a right turn at said junction and he could not go he would wait behind stop line of traffic lights, not good when its a constant stream of traffic. Even when I bought a copy of the highway code in to prove he was wrong he was adamant that the highway code was wrong, no helping some people
I recently berated someone with 2 out of 3 Brake lights NOT working, teaching their Son ...!
Grrrrrr ...
Did you get the registration and check online if the MOT is up to date?
Good to know I still understand the rules then..
The box on the bridge is interesting esp as it's so long.
(But I get why).
Without spending huge amounts redesigning the layout, it's hard to see an alternative, except perhaps a one way system!
My driving instructor always said just let one car wait in the box. It’s amazing how many people don’t know how to use it correctly.
I failed my first driving test for 2 reasons one of which was not going into the yellow box despite my exit being available. In NZ the road code defines the centre of the junction as the exit, this means that yellow box or not only one car is permitted to enter the junction to wait at any time, obviously if there is a gap and that car goes and the lights are still green the next vehicle can proceed.
"Mini shouldn't have gone" *Warning beep
*BEEEEEEPP!
"OK.."
😅
Sometimes beeping makes drivers stall so it can be a step back rather than forwards, reving your engine is another possible response.
Richie Btime The warning beep was from Ashley but the long beep was from car behind. He explained this if you listen to it.
@@RON240R Yeah you're right. It was just Ashley's reaction that was funny.
I dont hear any beeps as I have my music turned up
@@steve00alt70 probably for the best
Two questions relating to the box junction on the narrow bridge:
1) Since te rule for stopping in a box junction only applies if you are prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic does that mean one or other vehicle must be a bike?
2) Since the rule relates to you being prevented from turning right, does that no pose health and safety issues for the highways authority regarding the lack of a barrier preventing you from doing so?
To stop in a "Keep clear" is not illegal actually but it is potentially if you do block traffic. The cameras in London pick up everything and if your unnecessary in a yellow box they will get you.
Even if the exit you're turning right into is clear at the point you enter the yellow box, it could become blocked by left turning oncoming traffic while you're waiting, leaving you stuck in the middle of a yellow box without a clear exit just as a police car arrives.... it may be advisable sometimes to hold short of yellow box until you're sure that not only is the exit clear now, but also will remain clear after oncoming traffic has cleared.
Good stuff. Have you a video on roundabouts? Would be nice to see clarifications on these.
I'm amazed that so many people had previously commented that you cant wait in a box junction.....my experience driving all over the country is that most drivers don't have a clue why the yellow hatched boxes are there at all - seems like about half of them treat these boxes as their own personal waiting or queue jumping zones - especially the Audi/VW/SUV & Amazon/Hermes/DPD van drivers.
Same applies to "keep clear" areas .....well, all junctiions really. Common sense dictates if you're in a traffic queue there's no disadvantage to being an extra 20ft back from the guy in front - in fact, its an advantage because you can see more of the road ahead, and you're leaving all junctions clear for cross traffic (which can often have a knock-on benefit of easing the path of traffic in your queue 10 or 20 cars ahead).
Someone might get in front of you... Can't have that happen. Must get in front brigade! 🙃
@@CED99 yep - and heaven forbid, I should should stop at the next red light 12ft back because someone has the audacity to steal "my" bit of road.....shocking !!
I'm amazed the yellow box at 5:14 doesn't have a yellow box camera on it. It would be a lovely revenue raiser.
my mom mailed me to the country once... I waited in a yellow box for quite some time, so yes sir! yes I can!
I know the yellow box rule and always do my best to adhere to it but sometimes the traffic is flowing and I do enter the box and get caught out when traffic suddenly stops and I get stuck in the yellow box for a short time. This doesn't happen regularly. I am from a rural area and generally drive in quiet enough towns so normally if this happens it is not a huge issue. I have even seen others going straight ahead but waiting in yellow boxes and the police drive past but don't care. I imagine in larger cities that it is more of a big deal.
At 3:35 the lights ahead change to amber and Ashley makes a calm and gradual stop _before_ he reaches the Advanced Stop Line (ASL), meanwhile, the car to his left finds it impossible to stop for a further two seconds(ish). And yet Ashley, judging from the footage, was slightly ahead of them.
Then notice at 5:32 how Ashley manages to *NOT* enter the cycle box while waiting for the junction ahead to clear. I’ve never ever seen anyone manage that manoeuvre before, nice one Ashley!! 👍👍
As an aside, a few years ago, the local council painted a yellow box outside our factory gates. I guess someone had realised that pulling right out of our gates was pretty difficult as the majority of traffic flows from the right and to the immediate left of our gates is a set of lights. And it must’ve been damn near impossible for those exiting the “Sharp Project” across the road from us and wishing to turn right towards the traffic lights.
For a while, people behaved but nowadays, drivers merrily ignore the yellow box and stop right across our factory gates. But in the winter months, I do take solace in the fact that my super-bright flashing helmet-mounted cycle-light is easily pointed in the general direction of the offending driver, who do their best to ignore my flashing light whilst willing the traffic signals ahead to let them go… 😂
sorry for replying a year after your comment. Usually with ASLs, if I'm cycling and a driver is in them, I'll make eye contact and pull out infront of them on my bike and go from there, so I can clear the junction as I'm supposed to.
Once, however, a lady had stopped in an ASL and no matter what I did, she couldn't make eye contact with me. I even tapped on her window and she didn't look. Because she was ENGROSSED in putting on her make-up. I decided not to pull infront of her because she'd have likely ran me over. I watched her accelerate straight through the entire junction without taking her eyes off her vanity mirror. Literally didn't look at all. Crazy.
in my jurisdiction, BC Canada, we have very few yellow boxes - most of them are used for in front of fire stations or such. The rule for ANY junction is that it is an offence to enter into the junction if one cannot clear on the change of lights. Chargeable with both monetary and license points. That being said, many people do not obey this traffic law. Cheers! S.
I didn't realise you had your own channel with videos. I'm now subscribed...and I'm sure I'm now going to be even more homesick for BC and the Lower Mainland watching the BC road scene whilst I'm sitting out this pandemic in the UK, as much as I also love England.
And the reason why ? yes you have it, I have been the guy sitting waiting to turn right at the lights and when the lights turn green the way has been blocked by traffic sitting in the box and its not until the lights have turned red and back once more to green that i was able to go. nothing to do but sit and bear it!
I Had this question in my driving test. that was over 2 decades ago.
Yes, as long as your exit from it is clear.