Difficult: "This boss has complex mechanics, it took us 3 weeks to down it first time." Punishing: "This boss levels you down every time it kills you, f*ck that raid."
@@dale7326 Only tried Bosja but the mettle loss on death is so low I dont know why it's there. But I have never heard that being the cause of people not liking it. Usually "too grindy", which is fair but also the grind is sort of the point, optional as it is.
>FFXIV classic when You know, someone asked YoshiP something along those lines when WoW Classic went up. "Would you consider giving players the option of playing 1.0 in some capacity?". His answer: "Nightmare."
Necromancer is an interesting case because the devs didn't even design Palace of the Dead with that achievement in mind. It was added when people started figuring out ways to solo it all the way to floor 200, to acknowledge their accomplishment.
The thing about a lot of these mechanics that "were actually wow mechanics" is that they were actually mechanics that come from FFXI or otherwise predate WoW.
@randomguy8196 it was nice as a way to encourage you to try other classes (hated leveling Black Mage though. So damn boring) but I'm ok with the new way of doing it where it's a set pool now as honestly everyone was expected to have all the same cross class skills for your job role anyways so it just saves on the grind
@randomguy8196 It also introduced the issue of I absolutely hate X class/its gameplay which leads into the furstration and anger as you're forced to level them because they have the god tier cross class skill (like Paladins provoke for the tanks), at god forbid level 40+. Made worse by that due to it being 1-50 or 1-60 power leveling through those early levels wasn't as strong
The Solar in the Waking Sands, where you met Minfillia, was a shared zone when ARR 2.0 first came out. They had to change it to a solo zone because everyone would AFK around Minfillia.
A really big thing. At the start of the game when you were rezzed you had zero invincibility frames. You could literally rezz and immediately die. Now you have invincibility until you perform an action or 10 or so seconds pass.
@@GM5K-LMR Yes? That's the whole point of progging, you do mistakes and learn from them. People also don't die exclusively from mechanics they've never seen before, you know.
One thing I do actually like about the repair mechanic is the thought of "ok we keep wiping on this boss, lets back out recheck the guide or figure out what we're doing wrong before trying again," and the repair kind of forcing you to step away from the raid for a second to fix your stuff and clear your head.
@@jonton9228 What's extra dumb is haste only screwed up Monk but benefitted literally everyone else. Monk's mechanic was Greased Lightning, where as you do combos, you gain your own stacks of haste. If you played AST or SCH, you would have to avoid using certain buffs, and it meant lots of raid groups just didn't take monks!
One note. Mor Dhona and Idyllshire started out bare on their respective expantions and with each patch they built them all up to what they look like today. The firmament while it had player participation also started this way during this expansion. Seeing in game evolution of these cities has been one of the greatest experiences. I still look back fondly and marveled at Mor Dhonas progress each patch back in 2.X
The day they removed TP was the greatest day for all DPS. It made dungeons so much faster because you could just button mash your AoE rotations to clear away the trash mobs instead of having to worry about running out of TP and being reduced to auto-attacks until it refilled.
One thing Larry forgot was tanking in 3.0. For one, DRK was way more mp intensive. You had to balance between tank stance, dark side, and then know when exactly top pop off your OGCDs.
man the removal of TP is what brought me back to the game in the first place. Nothing took the wind out of my "fun sails" faster than just not being allowed to do anything while waiting for TP to come back as a melee dps.
TP removal was wonderful, prior to it you basically were rolling that math meme anytime you needed to AoE. Plus it made you resent lazy Bards and Ninjas.
@@averijames3741 This is another reason why it was a requirement to level gladiator as a tank. It gave you access to flash, which was an AoE enmity generator that used your MP instead of TP.
TP fucking sucked. I used to hate when tanks would do big pulls because my TP would drain so fast from doing AoEs. Jobs already have resources to manage; there was no reason for TP to exist on top of that. So glad it's gone, and screw anyone who calls it "casualization".
I remember all of these things from back in the day. It's weird looking at how much has changed and seeing it compared to WoW, but it makes sense. Yoshida did say in so many words that this was to be the final fantasy version of world of warcraft. Seems They're hitting the mark.
Melee had some pretty high TP-draining skills. As a Bard, I never really had *too* much issue with managing TP + Invigorate if getting up after a death but then again if you hit AoE skills, well, TP's gone haha.
Before getting to know the sub-stat priorities properly (during Heavensward), I used to have way too much skill speed on ninja and I just kept running out of TP and Invigorate/Tactician(Army's Paeon at that time, I think) just couldn't keep up. Especially in Refurbisher savage where you could pretty much have 100% uptime. Having to struggle without TP for the last 30% or so of the fight was a very good incentive to learn the stat priorities at least if nothing else. All in all, TP's certainly a feature I don't miss at all.
I remember when Monks could run out of TP just doing their regular rotation, especially AoE. Them getting a haste buff was actually bad because it meant their TP gauge would just rapidly deplete lmao.
TP was primarily set up as a limit to AoE spam (same for casters really but casters actually had stats to affect their MP pool and regen, but TP was static outside of bard songs and got worse with skillspeed)
@@cattysplat it certainly contributed but I don't think it was actually much of a limitation for dungeon pulls. MP especially regenerates super fast out of combat anyway, so maybe it just held melee and ranged back on that front. Probably a bigger factor, at least for early leveling, is the fact that they gave all tanks aoe skills at basically any level. As for boss encounters, its probably a big reason why add phases are much easier in old content but SB and onward the fights are obviously designed with that in mind again.
i actually didn't mind this bc i forced me to play other classes to try them out, and didn't have to level them high anyway. as a return player, this video was a great catch-up!
You used to be able to not only put 3-4 DoTs from your class on Summoner, but also Aero and Thunder from White and Black Mage, giving you 6 DoTs to maintain at once. Did you know there’s a limit to how many DoTs a world boss can have? It used to be much more relevant lol
I've said it in a previous vid comment, but I think you'd love the FFXIV series by Speakers Network 'The Fall and Rise of FFXIV' It's several episodes long, but the first 5 deal with pre 2.0, while the rest tell of the difficulties surrounding 2.0 onward. You'll really enjoy it I think.
In FFXIV repairs are those things that pop up a message when I'm about to go queue for a duty sometimes. They don't help immersion in any way and should be removed. Otherwise the player base will just continue to say "oh, I guess I gotta port to limsa real fast" every few days.
It's not meant for immersion, it's meant as a gilsink. It's kind of shit at it, since it's so cheap, but every little bit helps. I just carry some dark matter and repair it myself.
@@fjshdf I understand that it's a gil-sink, but it's a gil-sink that makes players drop whatever they're doing and attend to it every so often. It detracts from the enjoyability of the game, if only marginally, and doesn't provide any substantial benefit to justify it's existence. This is a very minor issue to me, but I think the fact stands that the repair system is a very small net negative for the game.
@@s.m.4995 Huh, that ain't really been my experience with it, but I guess that's just because I keep things repaired due to habit. Get out of a dungeon, port home, extract materia, equip new gear to gear sets, repair, turn around retainer quick ventures, port to Ul'dah, turn in unused dungeon loot/old gear/retainer venture rewards to GC, queue for dungeon. It might be more anything if you don't have crafters leveled and can't repair everything yourself anywhere, but you can put a mender down next to a retainer bell in an apartment and just repair whenever you check your retainers and it's done.
when stance dancing was a thing, as well as sprinting using tp, the game had a more visible distinction between the "quality" of the tanks. In general, the game has lost some complexity because of it but it may be said it was an artificial complexity for the sake of complexity and deemed required due to the overtune of the raids which then (over)flowed into normal dungeons when raiders were doing them. I think that it effectively did teach the tanks that they are required to plan and track all of their cds in addition to the mechanics of the fight. Tanks also needed to track the mana of the healer(s) and calculate when their dps is actually more useful to the dungeon/raid dmg vs a tank in a dps stance and manage their stance and general ingame plan according to the flow of the raid (like unexpected deaths that could prevent you going yolo on the boss). So lots of variables were removed, simplifying the "algorithm" and allowing more brain power to be used on handling the mechanics and less on the cds and unpredictable situations. I personally was proud of my stance dancing and general performance as a tank (warrior), as I managed to be good enough so that my grouped cleared A3S and A4S before the (first) nerfs. We survived where many have fallen. I can understand the need for the change/removal, as it was also frustrating to me and constantly putting me outside of my comfort zone, but when I look back at it, I kind of miss it. It was a mechanic that allowed us to see how bad we were, how much we learned and progressed while remembering all the growing pain in between and allowed us to show everyone what have we become (a bunch of SoB / elitists :0 ) . That being said, I think the game is more enjoyable without those mechanics for the majority of people and that majority pays the bills. Probably eases up new tanks into the raids and the result is a less toxic playerbase.
@@IAmDaedem The old gameplay being significantly more complex and engaging is objective. You can argue that the new gameplay is better because it made the experience of new and casual players smoother, but that's a good thing only for as long as the game is continuously growing. What happens once it reaches a plateau and all the veterans start getting bored by the dumbed down gameplay and leave? You get retail WoW.
@@AdamBlade17 I'm not a good player, so I can't comment on the high end raiding part, but simple doesn't necessarily have to be boring. I see where you're coming from, but I also feel that if you can make the gameplay loop fun and/or distinctive enough, it can maintain fans. For me, current WAR is simple but still requires enough planning to be engaging while also giving me a fun loop to keep me interested. Again, though, I'm sure my high level raiders and tanks miss the old days.
@@AdamBlade17 more complex =/= more challening. Chess is fairly easy to learn but has an insane skill cap. It's much hardee to excel in chess than TCGs for example, which have hundreds of mechanics and are more complex
IMO the effect of repair system and similarly content time lockouts is that it gives you a defined point at which to break up content "Well gears dead/times up guess I'll call it there" and I really wouldn't want that gone because I'd probably end up grinding way longer without that little nudge to stop.
Yeah some of these shitty QoL things actually came from FFXI, which preceded wow. Especially things like Rogue / NIN being a hate / emnity management job. that was its primary function in FFXI pretty much .
Hilariously Ninja was never intended to be a tank but because it had some of the best enmity management skills and when paired with a thief’s sneak/trick attack became a fantastic choice, it naturally fell into the role.
I've been playing since ARR's beta, and can confirm everything Larry says is 100% true. Bard's having the generic healer LB was mostly since it was the only support job, and the songs actually were *immensely* more helpful since they helped with stuff like MP and TP regen. Bards were legitimately REQUIRED in high level content. I recall in the beta, your TP regened faster if you were sitting down. So my poor Roegadame lancer would just be sitting in the grass in the woods after killing one mob since it was faster to grind that way.
I was't a beta player. Heck I was barely a realm reborn player. I made my account and tried it out in realm reborn, but I really started playing properly in heavensward.
Bard still very uselfull before shadowbringers at stormblood they still has very usefull song buff and mp/tp regen sadly due to new dancer job, bard getting rekt. it is not same anymore. feels more like a ranger than something between support dancer and dps machinist hopefully they revamp the job in endwalker
@@writer_man5318 that's correct, in the inn or main city, which were originally the only things considered "sanctuaries", and being in a sanctuary is what built up your rested exp. Also, if you changed jobs outside of a sanctuary, it would put all your skills on cooldown. Then later they expanded it so all areas in proximity of a crystal were considered a "sanctuary", and removed the penalty for swapping jobs in the open.
in regards to wasting time less, FFXIV's autoloot felt so huge to me coming from WoW. It always baffles me how WoW seems to take a step in the right direction but never seem confident enough to follow-through. They do level scaling but only in some zones, then expand further but still having brackets. They do personal loot but instead of doing autoloot with it, they removed master loot as well. Aoe autoloot was a mild improvement, but true autoloot saves so much time. I know there's loot-a-rangs and such, but it feels so nice in FFXIV just going from mob to mob without needing to right click or toss rangs each time for loot.
Bro with the TP thing he did not mention how much that screwed over AoE. For some reason your AoE moves ate up way more TP than your single target so you'd run out if you had to do them for too long and large pulls would take forever.
When I first played FF11, I struggled to stay playing because: 1. I was trash and 2. because I was trash I kept de-leveling from 10 to 9, than back to 10, then back to 9. 3. because of 1 and 2 I didnt have the drive to get better.
"I like how a lot of these stupid mechanics were actually WoW mechanics" Actually they were from FF11. Their first MMO and I'm glad they got rid of them. In that game, dying caused you to lose exp. If you died enough you would go down in lvls. If you were trying to raid and 1 person screwed up that wiped the party. It made you want to kick that person because lvling up took hours. T7 is a shadow of it's former self. I spent hours learning how to be the puller on the fight. Only for it to be in vain.
i enjoyed 11 for being forced to be a good player and if you were good everyone on your server knew it and you always had party invites I also miss exp parties because i use to chat with people and we would get to know each other now on 14 its fast dungeon runs and raids and nobody really knows each other or their job so you get lots of crappy ppl. I know some of this is nostalgia and I do remember farming cuz money was hard I liked too much stuff from 11 but there were lots of time sinks and now i dont have time.
Wait, is Asmongold seriously defending the RAID FINDER??? After shitting on it on WoW for so many years because it destroyed server communities??? This man is lost, the catgirls have completely taken over his brain.
@@s0515033 dude been living his whole life inside that house, He's been using decade old shirts, he's played Warcraft his entire life. He hasn't begged his viewers for money or for subs, He's been donating for charity frequently, just based on this do you really think he'll praise a game for money. yes rich people also like money but we don't know asmongold entirely to judge him based on that. WoW base game is dogshit and he's praising FF because he thinks it's good it's not about the money.
Oh god i remember having to level two classes for a job. when a friend joined i tried helping them and they were confused about what i was talking about. so glad they removed that. i HATED cross class abilities. This is stirring things i forgot i hated
@derp derpin I can agree to a point. I mean this was my favorite game then and I still commit most my free time to the game but now that the game has a lot more content they dont need to artificially lengthen the game anymore.
@Stevean2 I think the problem with it is the restrictions it has. While you have people who are perfectly fine with grinding all jobs, some just don't have the time in the day. What I wish is they expand and diverse particularly with tanks and healers. I don't mind that they have similar ish skills but some really needs some way to diversify the experience. WAR and DRK comes into mind. Both jobs are much less the same and I feel like Sage will definitely consume what little niche SCH has.
@derp derpin It was interesting for sure, but fun was no part of it. "Oh ye I HAVE to play this thing that I don't want otherwise my main thing isn't gonna be anywhere near as good as it should be..."
Man, Im scared that Star Wars The Old Republic is going this route with its combat enchantment update where you can use other class abilities that you leveled up.
Now that leveling classes goes by faster it wouldn't be that big of a deal. My issue was starting out I got annoyed that that I had to put the game on hold so I could go level another class to get a basic role ability. I have all my classes leveled nowa days sure but back then I just wanted to get to the raids where my friends were.
It does make a difference to have many small rp elements. They all add up to an experience as if living in that world to some small degree. Repair costs, potential problems and stress if you get damaged too much. The need to travel across the world to your destination facilitating world pvp/general encounters, chatting to make friends with your group during travel, importance of sticking with the party you have and making it work; oh and making your earned mounts even more important and special to have obtained. Not to mention just having the world feel like a big world thanks to the travel. Many of the fast travel ones honestly feel like tiny worlds, I miss the grand scale feeling things like wow classic had because the world itself had its own role to play in this way on top of much more. I think it all adds up to a better world really. Could be toned down or up in some areas, but otherwise actually good to have. They are the type of things that by themselves look pointless but add to a better whole world building/rp wise. Actually wish they were more involving/in depth in some aspects. It would be a huge comment if I went into how to do it and do so well though. xD
For cleric stance: [Thank you for correction, it should be Mind, not Spirit. maybe I play too much RPG or other MMORPG :( ] Back then, magic power relies on INT, while healing power relies on MND. Normally, healer will put every stats they got from levelling to MND (yes, back then you get status point from levelling and allocate it by yourself while leveling), but it gave a problem from duty quest because healer could not kill. So the devs gave a solution for that with Cleric Stance, this skill swap the MND and INT stats while active, that's why healer could not heal while Cleric Stance is active because no MND and vice versa. If i'm not mistaken, the system was changed at Stormblood where healer dps relies on MND too, not INT, but ONLY for healer. Oh yeah, during ARR, race starting stat was really important for some class. For example Black Mage, the most powerful DPS back then, ever wonder why all of the member of Thaumaturge guild are Lalafell? you will not be a great Black Mage if your are not a Lalafell, beacuse Lalafell got more INT for starting stats and MORE MP so you could cast ONE MORE FIRE before switching to BLIZZARD.
I loved cleric stance, it made playing a healer really exciting, getting good in a fight meant for a healer not only knowing when to expect the big hits to precast but also when you had a window for cleric stance.
@@masha8770 Agree with you, but back then the Cleric Stance also gave huge controversies between a pure healer and a healer that would dps-ing within a fight. I remember when I went to FF14 healer's forum, there were a lot of debates whether the healer should dps or not. Some people think that cleric stance is just a tool in MSQ, but others think that it is a skill that need to be optimized to separate a good healer to a great healer.
Repairing is a money sink that in a way also helps to combat bots while also giving some light punishment for death. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, it can be actually a good thing though I do think it should be more convenient which in FF14 if you have your crafters high enough, you can use dark matter and repair your gear anywhere you want with it gaining bonus durability for doing so.
At this point the gear repair is so trivial in a long run that I think it's only in place to add a bit more incentive to level crafters. You make a good point about bots though.
Repairing doesnt prevent bots from spamming ads in chat it just makes them not be able to farm mobs. If anything I'd just keep it on for bosses so that people are forced to take breaks when continually dying from them.
@@Sephiroso. Somehow the biggest single player RPGs you thought of were NOT Elder Scrolls or the FPS Fallouts, since Repair in both series are given their own skill listing and mechanics.
@@Sephiroso. Single Player RPGs don't have to worry about the player economy. If someone bots in a single player game then Oh well, it only effects them. I mean Single Player RPGs sometimes have cheat codes, why not allow MMos to have cheat codes were you can get infinite money or powerful items since players wouldn't mind that?
@@StraightcheD True with the cost to some extent, but its one of those things that slowly add up over time, same with teleporting. Sure once you get further in teleporting cost seems trivial, but you spend 500 here, 1k there, teleport 100 times you could be spending 50k-100k. Its reasonable to expect if you are actively playing you are going to probably teleport around a decent amount each session.
@@UltimaKeyMaster i think it mostly boils down to the devs not really knowing any better at the time since rezzes in wow also took 10 secs to cast and couldn't even be used in combat if you remember- they had battle rez skills and those had a short cast but was also on a 10 minute cool down or smth, whereas in ffxiv you don't have that limitation
Thank you asmongold for voicing a very important viewpoint about punishment in games. People often group together 'hard' and 'punishing' and point fingers at something like Dark Souls as if that's the end all be all of arguments when they can't point out specifically what makes a game punishing or rewarding
I remember back pre-HW when all the melee had to level Dragoon, and this was before they did a rework on Lancer to be more cohesive - so the true filter of playing a melee DPS was if you could actually stand playing a Lancer for long enough to get to level 30. Lancer was a COMPLETE mess before they changed it, where in many cases you wanted to break your combo to sit and literally just spam 1 button, because it did more damage than doing a full combo. Which meant your entire leveling experience was to go into fates and mash 1 button while slowly, SLOWLY getting XP. It even felt slower because it was *necessary* to do that if you wanted to be remotely competitive in damage.
@derp derpin well yeah if it was more expensive then everyone would be upset. It is just one of the ways to keep inflation in check. The real money sink is housing but that has issues with memory needed to maintain them. Which is why housing is so rare and expensive.
RIP Protect and Stoneskin. Also Asmon, as a tank here is one you would hate. You had two stances, Tank stance and Dps Stance, and your skills would change based upon which you had. So throughout the fight you would stance dance to take less dmg, do more dmg, and keep emnity. PLD also did not get their stance until lvl 42, instead they had Sword Oath until then. Bards used to be casters in HW because Wanderer's gave you cast times. Warriors and Ninjas put slashing down debuffs on things, Drk had extra resistance to Magic Skill, and PLD literally did nothing but be a meat shield. Ninja had 4 different combos by the end of HW, and 2 sperate dots that were GCDs, not to mention two different "poisons" they put on their daggers that would change a skill called jugulate, which no longer exists. There was no such thing as a KB immunity except for one PLD had, so if you didn't want to get knocked back to Pld would pop that and cover you so they took it for you, but neither would be affected. We also had things like Flash, which was a mana based AoE enmity grabber, as well as an AoE PROVOKE. I forget what it was called. There were not AoE combos for most classes, as well as there used to be AoE dots. Beserk, the old IR, would silence you after 10s, and the healer would Esuna you. Sch's were glorified SMN, and let me tell you about old Astro. Each card had a meaning and a use. Bole was for taking less dmg, Balance was more dmg, Spire was tp regen, Spear was Crit chance increase, Arrow was Skill Speed, and Ewer was Mp regen. Spire and Ewer if consumed would grant a "spread" which meant everyone in the party could get the next card. Bole consumed made something longer, and Balance consumed made something more potent. I forget what Spear and Arrow consumed did. You also could increase the time of a card by using a skill I forget the name of. There is more, but those are some things he didn't include.
Royal Road Spear & Arrow extended the buff duration. Bole/Balance doubled potency, Spire & Ewer halved potency to give full party spread. iirc World First UwU clear succeeded because of a spread Bole
Spear was crit chance? What expansion was this? I distinctly remember it reducing cooldowns on abilities, so you'd put it on bards for slightly faster Bloodletter, for instance.
I was rewatching old videos and I totally had forgotten what a pain it was to recast Protect on the whole party every time someone got ressed, or individually casting Stoneskin on each party member before a big attack and on the tanks before tank busters... not to mention every wipe reset /dead
They force us to repair to remove Gil from the game. Keeps Gil inflation down. It's the same reason we have taxes on the market board :) I thought it was dumb until I realized why they were doing it too.
Them changing Titan-egi is the reason why i never went back to Summoner. If they would of just made it to where you can't summon him during raid then that would of been soooo much better.
Hearing Larry talk abaout Titan-egi tanking reminded me of running around the open world for fates and having Titan tank everything for me because Sustain was an insane amount of healing for no effort back then. Or using him to tank dungeons when the actual tank DC'd
Okay I think aggro was actually fine back in the day. I don't think it was "vestigial." I mean what even is tanking anymore? The bosses don't need to be dragged anywhere, their autos don't cleave , there's no adds, there's just 2 or three times a fight where you need to use your invul. Tanking is just DPS with easier rotations. I agree that most of the stuff he calls a waste of time were, but not the aggro system
@@Dastreus not auto cleaves. Can't think of a ShB. I'm talking no cast bar. Diamond Weapons have autos that naturally cleave but they still hit has hard as autos
Shared abilities are actually really cool; you actually feel like your character is becoming STRONKER through their EXPeriences, rather than just dinging to glory
It gave a good healer challenge in heavensward if you got the seal rock gear via 100 wins and then wore that n int accessories and healed entire dungs in cleric stance so you made min ill but had far lower heals. It was a good way to train tanks with cds. Full pulls of course. All but the 2.5 dings I was able to do it jn
Not really. Bad players didn't DPS period. For healers that wanted to DPS, it was just an extra button to press before using damage spells. It didn't really add any depth. Players that did 0 DPS back then still do 0 DPS
its interesting to see the stuff i went thru when i started playing alongside stuff that was already removed before i did. i 10000% do not miss that TP bar, it was the absolute bane of my existence as a bard
I think there can be fun in some of them. But it needs the game to be designed for them, otherwise they just feel clunky and like they hold the game back. That said, not sure even WoW had done a great job at that :P But that means you get people who want a MMO well designed for such things that see the potential for it in some of the mechanics for WoW and will those find it somewhat fun in a way. Think that's more the way of sandbox MMOs, while most people seem to currently enjoy theme park MMOs.
When I think of trash mobs, I think of back into vanilla: Where the trash in dungeons had a chance to drop set items. When pulls had to be planned out with CCs and focused damage. Course the game has been long solved, and people just skip to the end, the journey is long gone and it's only about the destination.
I don't remember Cleric Stance doing that at all. If I remember correctly, Cleric stance swapped your MND and INT. You could still heal, your heals were less. I believe the last update to it, it didn't swap stats, but instead reduced healing by 20% and increased damage by 20%. I never remember being unable to heal. I only remember it being inefficient to heal with it on.
@@runicex2310 - I know, I used to play back in 1.0 too. I was talking about 2.0 (ARR) specifically with the MND/INT swap and later on it being 20% reduction to healing with a 20% increase to damage.
In HW, it swapped your MND and INT and gave 10% buff to your INT. In SB, it only gave you a flat 10% damage bonus and was a cooldown, not a stance. I don't remember it ever being the 20% reduction/increase thingy you are talking about.
There's some misinformation in this video. That being one of them. He makes it sound like Cleric stance completely reduces your heal to 0, or that not having enough accuracy stat meant you absolutely never landed a hit on the boss, when the reality is that your attacks just weren't 100% guaranteed to land, and Cleric stance just reduced healing while on.
I think a potentially unintended benefit of repair mechanics are that they force you to take a break from continually running bosses which could help in the long term with player retention. So I think if anything were to damage gear it should only be bosses.
@@Boyzby on a raid team it's not too uncommon because of door bosses. If someone's gear breaks when you have an hour+ left on the instance and you're progging the second phase of the fight, having to leave to repair means having to do phase one again. So a lot of raiders will level certain crafters to avoid that being a problem, even if the level method they use is buying levekits.
"Sekiro has almost no punishment." Yeah right, half the moves you have in your characters kit require you to use Spirit Emblems, and they don't just reappear after you die or rest. If you die multiple times to a boss, you gotta go and grind money so you can buy a bunch more spirit emblems just so you can have a decent try on a boss. And they're way more expensive than repairing your items in most of the mmos. Plus you've got a bunch of other consumable items you might want. Especially you need to use a certain consumable item to even be able to DAMAGE some bosses. You'll need to use multiple ones throughout the fight because the buff has a short duration. Plus for certain bosses you need to stock up on the item that removes/grants resistance to Terror, because without it Terror builds up so fast you need to have a speedrun level strategy and skill to kill the bosses fast enough to avoid the instant death from Terror. Sekiro is much worse with punishing players for dying to bosses than the Souls-series. (With the exception of Demon's Souls) Souls games have consumable items, but your most important ones of Estus flask, and if you use magic, spell uses/mana bar restore themselves on death or resting at a bonfire. Imagine if in order to cast spells, in addition to equipping the spell to one of your limited slots to get X amount of uses, you had to buy consumable Spirit Emblems in order to use them. And you even have a mechanic that says if you die too many times. YOU CAN NO LONGER TALK TO CERTAIN IMPORTANT NPC:S OR COMPLETE THEIR QUESTS. So you have to get an expensive and rare consumable item to fix that. Oh and not only that, with each NPC that is "disabled" in your game, the chance you can keep your money and exp after dying is lowered. Sekiro is a good game, but saying that it has almost no punishment for dying is total bullshit. Also, Asmongold says Path of Exile punishes you too much, when it has a 10% exp penalty on death in late game? In Sekiro you lose FIFTY PERCENT of your current exp (and gold). And which game do you think kills you way more often?
literally the reason i stopped playing sekiro, i didnt make it that far, but lady butterfly basically requiring a consumable item was bulshit enough to make me tired of needing to farm just to get a decent try at her
Played Sekiro until I got platinum in PS4, never noticed anything you said except for Dragonrot, the one that you said 'you can no longer talk to certain important NPCs etc etc', it was easy to alleviate and/or avoid, no NPC has to die. Super easy. Terror/Illusions/Flame/shits and giggles from the headless/shichimen? Yeah all of these can be solved without any items. Lady butterfly? Never noticed you can shuriken her while she's jumping at my first two playthroughs, I just get better at parrying. Demon of Hatred? I don't even use Umbrella. Flame Isshin? Saint Isshin? same stuff. You can parry almost 99% stuff in Sekiro, that's what Asmon means by 'the game is difficult, but not punishing'. I'm not even a good player. In all souls game you LOSE SOULS every time you die, but YOU 100% CAN get them back (and it's also, once again, piss easy). You want punishing mechanics? Go play Super Mario 1 in NES, or any NES games, really, where literally all your progress is lost upon dying. Oh and for PoE, do you know how long it is to get your 10% exp back at level 95+? HOURS lost upon 1 instance of death (which can happen lots of time in the course of 10 minutes against big bosses e.g. Uber Atziri, Aul, Uber Elder, Maven, Veritania/Phoenix/Mino, Cyrus, each and everyone of those in Highest Awakener Lv.) In lv 99? Trust me, losing 10% exp is as devastating as losing a loved one. I would rather just make a new character and play HC-SSF than leveling one toon to lv 100. And once again, I'm not even a good player.
I wouldn't know, i literally didn't use anything outside of the katana and i thought the game was easy. If you just learn the fights instead of trying to cheese with the gear/consumables the game is actually pretty fun. (Except for that 1 trash mob that requires a specific buff to kill, idk why they did that but it's horrible, Divine confetti shouldnt have been necessary to kill them)
My favorite unintentional cheese mechanic is from City of Heroes. One of the powers of Dark Miasma (heal/buff/debuff set) was Howling Twilight. It was an AoE enemy stun plus AoE ally rez, but it required an enemy target so (in theory) it couldn't be used outside combat. The Trick Arrow set, added to the game later, had Oil Slick Arrow, which caused enemies to trip while in it, but if you hit it with fire or energy damage it would light on fire and do damage as well; in order for that mechanic to work it, had to be targetable as an enemy. One of the times the devs changed the mechanics for Hamidon (world boss), they were watching people try to find a way to defeat it. After one of many near-wipes, people used Recall Friend to pull the bodies together out of range of Hamidon, someone with Trick Arrow used Oil Slick Arrow, and someone with Dark Miasma targeted the oil slick to use Howling Twilight for a mass-rez. Seeing this, one of the devs actually said "WTF?!"
its like learning to play an instrument, but after you fail the note you gotta repair the instument, theres hard and theres being punished for mistakes
One thing I remember we used to do in 14 was before we start a dungeon or raid or whatever the healers always cast protect, I think that's what it was I know they kept casting some kind of buff.
Much of the cross class stuff sounds like it was from FFXI. Only Warrior had Provoke. But NOBODY played warrior past 30. You Nin/War Pld/War because those jobs brought so much more than a high level War. So you had to Sub-Job Warrior to have that as tank. Enmity was not a magic button. In XI you had to constantly work to stay ahead of your DD's in hate generation. Overzealous Blm/Rangers would pull hate and get their butts handed to them. Subjobs allowed for more ability customization, but yes there was a progression on what you HAD to level first to do certain things. Death in XI imposed an exp penalty that 1/2 your exp went to paying off the penalty. Raise III mitigated much of the penalty and people would REFUSE a raise if the only thing available was Raise I or II. TP used to be what you had to build up to use a Weaponskill. Now, Weaponskills are just what you do every 2-4 seconds. Samurai had a move to build 100% TP instantly to do a Weaponskill. Oh.. and in XI, MP only regenerated when you knelt down to rest if you did not have a Rdm casting Refresh. XI Thief had Trick Attack that transferred enmity to the tank. Sounds like Nin/Rogue started out with this then they ditched the entire enmity mechanic.
As a 75WAR it's always funny to see people say no one played it past 30. It's as if I don't exist. I only wish the gobbies thought I was invisible too.
Our FC always did the Turn 2 ADS enrage cheese. Manderville until enrage timer was up. Go in with three healers and two bards - spam Medica/Medica II and Mage's Ballad for unlimited MP.
I hated TP overall. The game design direction didn't really gel with it. It may have been different if they made 'time' a resource which you have to manage at 3.0 onward, but clearly they didn't go in that direction.
@@UltimaKeyMaster In that sense, yeah that's an interesting point. But I was thinking more of 'time' as in actually "managing" time. Like, having a heal with a very long cast time but uses little MP. Or deliberately not using a GCD and resting for a while in order to boost MP/TP (for example). The way FF14 is designed now, generally you're obliged to hit a GCD the moment it becomes available. There is no meaningful player choice there in managing GCD expenditure. And I think the way it has gone is right; gaming is becoming more fast-action oriented, so I think it has a broader appeal because of it.
The term vestigial is well used here, because a lot of these mechanics and features no longer have a use, at least in the line of MMO evolution that resulted in WoW and FFXIV. However, they did once have a use (for the most part), and in the right style of MMORPG they are still appropriate. MMORPGs, in the line of WoW, are not sandboxes, they are not player-driven worlds, and they are not focused on that type of immersion, at least insofar as gameplay is executed. They are mechanics-forward, meaning they are built on rotations and on raid mechanics. They are games first, and worlds second. They have systems to master, not worlds to conquer. Is there anything wrong with this? No. These games are highly popular and people enjoy them a great deal. However, just because things like gathering at a dungeon entrance do not make sense in WoW or FFXIV anymore, it doesn't mean they don't have an important place in other branches of the genre. In fact, I think you'll find some of those "vestigial" features making a reappearance in Ashes of Creation and New World. Variety is a good thing, after all.
@@MaakaSakuranbo True, but it needn't be strictly a sandbox for a MMO to utilize some of the things no longer necessary in WoW/FF14. Personally, I think the way forward may be in the "sand-park" style, which is kind of the angle of NW and AoC. Archeage could have been a longstanding, top 5 MMO in the west if it wasn't for the pay to win, and it fits the definition of sand-park pretty well.
I feel like these things have value in FF14 because of the story. Things like having to run to an NPC to repair your gear, or having to locate a dungeon physically the first time before you can enter it in the duty finder ties the experiences of the character to that of the player, which raises the emotional investment in the world and thus the payoff from the story.
@@CErra310 Maybe, yeah. Dungeon re-runs are kinda non-canon anyway I guess. Don't think I ever felt like running to an NPC to repair did anything though xD
The old Cleric Stance. It did a few things, it swapped your Int and Mind stats (Int increasing damage with spells, Mind increasing healing done), and it also gave a penalty to healing done and a bonus to damage done. With Cleric Stance on, you unironically were the weakest healer in the game. Black Mages could take Physick from Arnacist and with it were stronger healers than a Cleric Stance'd healer.
fun fact: thief's trick attack in ff11 was the original aggro xfer mechanic, before wow rogues got tricks of the trade. trick attack had a positional requirement that the thief using the ability had to position behind the tank while attacking the mob to make the enmity transfer possible.
I remember specifically about the time wasting thing that when the game released in China and I think Korea there were a lot of laws about how long minors could play games. Unsynchronized content was a direct result of this because you'd have people using all of their time just waiting in queue and couldn't even progress the story
Ah, the good ol' days of Summoner. I loved taking on stronger enemies when soloing. Now, Titan just...looks fine. That's it. I hate Summoner nowadays - there are other casters who are just more fun to play today, in comparison to before. Arcanist/Summoner used to be my favorite class, but now it's my least favorite - they have completely ruined that class, in my opinion.
same i love the game especially how easy it is to pick up after not playing for a while. I did enjoy the content being harder like I remember getting my ass handed to me when titan ex came out and now its too easy even min iLvL
And if you were fate farming with your chocobos out, you could only have 4 people in the party and 4 chocobos. If you wanted to fate farm with an 8 man party, you had to withdraw your chocobos.
"A lot of these abilities that ff used to have are actually wow mechanics" actually no, they were ffxi mechanics, which wow got a lot from. "Tricks of the trade" in wow did not come before the ffxiv ninja enmity trade, 14 took that ability from thief in 11s trick attack ability which was used the same way, and existed since 2002.
There's gotta be a balance between getting rid of time wasting stuff and pageantry imo. The immersion of going through a raid dungeon on raid night had a pretty cool feeling and was a good way to warm up and get some shit talking out of the way before it's time to focus up.
9:40 yes there is . Blackdesert make a P2W item for repairing outside town otherwise you have to waste your time running back to town and loosing your buff and grinding spot. Or use the f2p version that cost 10x more silver on repairing when repairing outside town and the f2p version will expire in 24hours that needs to be replaced constantly. Which basically forces you to buy that p2w item.
I actually really enjoy trash mobs in dungeons, provided they DO have important drops, and ARE CHALLENGING enough to make it interesting. I find it far more repetitive if I just join for a singular boss over and over.
Back in 2.0, Repair is legit a gil sink. The game doesn't shower you with Gils like they do now and the early days of 2.0, people actually can run out of gil because repairs cost is more expensive than the amount of gil you earn. I would legit not use teleport since it takes Gils.
Crafters made repairing trivial. If you have all your crafters to 70, you can repair your gear with higher durability. Even repairing during dungeons and raids.
"Repairing is trivial, all you have to do is spend 1500 hours becoming an omnicrafter". Next on Quick Strike's game guides he tells you how FF7 is trivial if you grind to get a gold chocobo on disc 2 and use Knights of the Round every fight.
@@rustyjones7908 Ishgard restoration made it a lot more faster levelling up. I went from no crafters leveled up to omnicrafter in 3 weeks of casual grind. Be prepared to lose lots of gil though.
@@rustyjones7908 its not needed anymore to be an Omnicrafter. 1 Crafter lvl 70 is enough to repair all of your gear. And lets be Honest, leveling a crafter from 1 to 70 didnt even take that long.
Repairing has always been trivial. Unless they at some point had actual systems revolving around repairing, etc. Has it not always been a button click at the NPC?
People who think that you need "punishments" for "difficulty" and "gitting gud" has never truly played an actual difficult game. Go play a fighting game or fps, get destroyed by skilled players over and over again, that true difficulty will teach you how to git good, not wasting your time with "systems".
This is kind of ironic because it's true that punishment isn't the only way for something to be difficult, but that doesn't mean that the way difficulty is presented in fighting games and fps is the only way something can be difficult either. Think about rogue-like games, they're incredibly punishing because you literally lose permanently if you die. The difficulty in that case comes from the challenge being sustained, you're in a high stakes situation for probably hours on end, and while moment to moment the game asks less of you than something like a fighting game, every small mistake you make matters more and adds up over time. So I mean punishment isn't always the best way to design something, but I think it's worth noting that the challenge doesn't come from losing progress or having to redo stuff, it comes from having to perform well under the stress of knowing that the stakes are high.
I think people don't realize the difference between "punishment" and "failure." "Failure" is just you not accomplishing what the game wanted you to do and having to try again, and there's nothing wrong with that. "Punishment" is when a game actively takes something away from you for failing. Dying in Dark Souls isn't a punishment unless you were stupid and stockpiled Souls without spending them before going into a boss. Take the Soul loss out of the equation and dying to a boss is no different than falling in a pit in a Mario game and having to try again from the last checkpoint. So it could be said that Dark Souls is punishing you, but they aren't punishing you for failure (aka, dying), they're punishing you for making bad resource management decisions because if you handled your resources better you would never be in a position to lose much of anything. Repair systems ARE punishing because the only thing they accomplish is making you lose time and in-game resources (repair costs) for enough failures. The only thing they accomplish is that after every dozen or so wipes you all have to take a bathroom break while some people hop out of the raid to spend some gold/gil before going right back to what you were doing.
Ah yes the TP bar. As a BLM/RDM main, I never dealt much with it and by the time I finally picked up melee/physical ranged classes, it was already on its way out, so my experience with it was limited. I remember it not being so bad on tank, but MCH and SAM would eventually have some troubles with it.
@@Ladywizard I don't remember that much, you may be right. I didn't get into tanking more seriously until ShB. My PLD never saw much use before that. Did the old flash ability use TP or much of it? I remember having to use that as my aoe skill since we had nothing else to use for aoe. Dark days those were.
@@shinon748 Nah, the real play was to mainline Intelligence and summon Eos when in Cleric Stance. That way you could DPS all day without anyone complaining about you having CS on :P
@@BlackTempleGaurdian cleric stance swapped your intelligence and mind stats. Putting those points into intelligence then hitting cleric stance would just make it become your mind stat lol
JOB/SUBJOB system worked for FFXI, but didn't translate well for FFXIV. I appreciated it in FFXI for as long as I played it, and I am sure most agree, but having to commit to that same system again in FFXIV gave me a nightmares.
job/sub was amazing in XI because it let us find lots of interesting combos and expanded how we played. Some crazy person figured out a way to make a fragile speedster melee dps work as a tank, another one turned a pet class into a solo leveling giant that outpaced the job specifically tailored to be solo. and the devs just.. let us fucking do it. "I guess ninjas are tanks now... whatever." XIV didn't let us do that because the job stones utterly ripped all the cross-class spells away. I remember having a "Stoneless" static for a while just to see what we could do with everything. A big PITA for early XIV (that I think killed a lot of people's desire to stick it out) was that you'd want to level certain jobs to certain places so you kept bouncing around until you eventually hit 30 on everything. "Level whm to get cure, then swap to archer for the dot, then start lancer" Or "Man I want to be a warrior tank! Well, first you want to start as a arcanist, so you get psycik, then go buy a chocobo ride and get to the harbor, then follow the road to Ul'dah and pick up gladiator..."
@@cyclone8974 exactly. It wouldn’t have worked in the first place because 14 revolves around tightly tuned mechanic heavy fights. FF11 is a completely different type of game from a completely different era.
Trash has an important role in raids. It introduces versions of the raid mechanics while also providing downtime between bosses. People overwhelming have not liked raids that are just a boss room. it also gives the impression that the raid is a lived-in, populated world instead of being a hallway with a door.
if you died, or sprinted as tank/melee, you lost all your TP.. no dps.. used to have put stats for each job, brd / nin needed dex.. etc, death 1, -25% stats, 2, -50% stats
i remember all of this. The cross class stuff also contributed alot to the skill bloat hw had. Since skills did not upgrade instead they were a completely separate skill that would just replace an old one but you had to keep the old one keybound just incase you were level synched down. Some other notable things: Whitemages had protect that was a cross job skill which was a must for all the healers. Tanks used to have 2 stances one for tanking and one for dpsing and both stances were different depending one which tank. Example the paladin tank stance reduced damage dealt/taken by 20% warriors tank stance increased max hp by 20% and reduced damage dealt by 20% and made certain abilities not useable in hw dark knight was unique because it was the only tank that could turn both stances on at the same time while the other two tanks had to stance dance. to even do high end content you basically had to get every single cross class skill to have a full kit meaning leveling every single job to 34.
It’s one of the things I kinda wish was still around honestly. I miss it. I understood what it was from a developers POV. FFXIV is so different because you can level every job, and by forcing cross class, you showed that off and made people interested in other jobs. I don’t miss having to only use sprint as a last resort, not getting a tank stance till 40, no aoe on pld until 50, cleric stance, or running out of tp in a fight.
I don't think i heard this video mention it, but Tank Stance used to lower your dmg by 20%, and separate aggro combos used to exist too, as well as only specific skills in general having aggro boosts. So back in the day, you'd open with 1 or 2 aggro combos and then just turn off tank stance for the rest of the fight and rely on your dps to use their aggro skills, and it would barely be enough to not loose aggro, and occasionally you had to throw in another aggro combo or 2 mid fight if it wasn't enough. This actually made PLD genuinely unviable as MT after ARR as he'd just lose too much dps from this.
Allagan rot at release was a pain not because of the mechanic itself but because of lag. There was a huge problem with syncing different players together and so you'd run through someone to pass rot and either it wouldn't pass, or it'd pass to them and then try to pass right back to you wiping the raid. That's why the strat started, though by the time most people were using it most of the latency issues had been fixed.
A lot of QoL improvement are from Stormblood era, its insane how people say its the worst expansion just because it only got a good storyline in comparison of Heavensward and Shadowbringers excellent storyline. Stormblood is the best expansion for FF XIV MMO side, there's so many content and QoL that make Shadowbringers feels lack.
Can you guys imagine a Classic ARR playable nowdays? Would be so cool to see how the game was back then and see the diferent builds with classes and skills....
Its not exactly a great idea tbh, people play WoW classic because its content are removed or not relevant anymore. But FF XIV content are all still there and old content are still there in party finder
From someone whos been playing since 2.0 , i promise you everything the changed from then to now is for the better and you wouldn't enjoy it. Believe me
@@blushingralseiuwu2222 The gameplay is still not there though. The gameplay now vs then almost feels like two separate games. The old content, as mentioned in the video, is basically nowhere near the same even at minimum item level.
I wish they added needing to travel to the raid entrance back. maybe remove the requirement after your first clear. I loved seeing other raid groups and talking shit or discussing strats while everyone gathered. in my opinion mmos should have those forced player interactions and something was lost when it was removed.
8:13 I think people eventually did the math: The amount of dps support Selene brought did not outweigh the healing output of Eos. I think the strat was to use Selene in the opener for the haste buff when everyone's cooldowns were up, then swap to Eos.
you could do more dps while having eos heal a bit and you doing dps, which is why they removed selene, i wish instead they reworked her to just be as good but different (in a way maybe similar to astro nocturnal and diurnal)
Simply because I was one of the vanilla players forced to do this shit, it does now make me feel like I wasted all that time leveling up different jobs for those cross-class abilities. Granted the new system is waaaaayyyyyyyyy better. Just slightly salty is all lol
@derp derpin to each their own. I'd agree that it felt more rewarding having to had leveled up alternative jobs to get cross class abilities, but overall the simplicity change made the game more casual-friendly. My biggest gripe was the addition of the Job gauges. That combined with the changes to the skills, I went from a 90th percentile Paladin/Dark Knight to a mediocre 70th percentile.
@@grizzlyadams917 tbh cross class leveling being forced upon a player who just wanted to play a class they picked is a dogshit system imo and im kinda bugged people are trying to defend it in this comment section cause it was "harder and felt more earned" just cause its harder and felt more earned doesnt = good or fun
@@jonton9228 Psh, go ahead and boost if you're not concerned with the story lol. At least you can skip most of the cutscenes XD. The only questionable change I am still having difficulty coming to terms related to cutscenes with is the fact that they're now forcing players to sit through the MSQ roulette cutscenes because all the sprouts bitch n' moaned enough that they couldn't watch the cutscenes AND participate in the fights.
Wait wait nono don't pronounce my channel name correctly I don't wanna be deleted
Hey Lazy Larry
*OH HELLO LAZY LARRY!*
lol
Lazy Larry is cool :D
It's him larry's here!
Difficult: "This boss has complex mechanics, it took us 3 weeks to down it first time."
Punishing: "This boss levels you down every time it kills you, f*ck that raid."
Basically every HNM fight when you just barely scrapes enough exp to hit 75.
That still exist in Eureka and Bozja contents though.
So yes, that’s why ppl hate those contents.
@@dale7326 It wasn't really that bad in Eureka for BA though, since there's Sprite island.
@@dale7326 Only tried Bosja but the mettle loss on death is so low I dont know why it's there. But I have never heard that being the cause of people not liking it. Usually "too grindy", which is fair but also the grind is sort of the point, optional as it is.
Aside from Ultimates and PotD, FF14 has neither of that anymore.
>FFXIV classic when
You know, someone asked YoshiP something along those lines when WoW Classic went up. "Would you consider giving players the option of playing 1.0 in some capacity?". His answer: "Nightmare."
That was in an Easy Allies interview at an E3 (forgot which year) for anyone who wants to search it up.
there were people who tried to make a classic XIV 1.0 server, not sure how well it went.
@@Shiirow They got as far as making it to where you could make your character and load into the game and run around...without any monsters or NPCs.
The best part is that he said it perfectly in a very good english accent.
Necromancer is an interesting case because the devs didn't even design Palace of the Dead with that achievement in mind. It was added when people started figuring out ways to solo it all the way to floor 200, to acknowledge their accomplishment.
thats when you know you have some good devs when they implment peoples accomplishments and such into actual features or lore.
The thing about a lot of these mechanics that "were actually wow mechanics" is that they were actually mechanics that come from FFXI or otherwise predate WoW.
Actually they even predate that. Atleast in FFV which I've been playing recently you can "cross class" some abilities.
The learning other class / jobs comes from classinc games like FF 3, FF 5, FF Tactics and others.
@randomguy8196 it was nice as a way to encourage you to try other classes (hated leveling Black Mage though. So damn boring) but I'm ok with the new way of doing it where it's a set pool now as honestly everyone was expected to have all the same cross class skills for your job role anyways so it just saves on the grind
Yeah I remember having to level up a sub job on 11.
@randomguy8196 It also introduced the issue of I absolutely hate X class/its gameplay which leads into the furstration and anger as you're forced to level them because they have the god tier cross class skill (like Paladins provoke for the tanks), at god forbid level 40+. Made worse by that due to it being 1-50 or 1-60 power leveling through those early levels wasn't as strong
The Solar in the Waking Sands, where you met Minfillia, was a shared zone when ARR 2.0 first came out. They had to change it to a solo zone because everyone would AFK around Minfillia.
ah... so thats why..
yeah, i cannt imagine walking into solar for msq and see bunch of ppl RP-ing around
@@NiteTalesss Back then, the game wasn't optimized to show NPCs above PCs, so it was very difficult to click any NPCs in there to do quests.
@@michaelkarnage6576 since game came out, there are a keybind to select the closiest npc, only dumb people still click to select a npc lol
@@richardshiflett5181 Ah, a man of culture.
I did wonder why it was an instanced area. Guess that's the problem with trying to put a single player story into an MMO.
A really big thing. At the start of the game when you were rezzed you had zero invincibility frames. You could literally rezz and immediately die. Now you have invincibility until you perform an action or 10 or so seconds pass.
Think it'sts less than 10 secs. Maybe 3 or 5.
Oh no, you had to use your brain when pressing accept, the horror
@@AdamBlade17 Trueee, just know when it's safe to respawn if you die while progging, no idea why people didn't try that back then
@@GM5K-LMR Yes? That's the whole point of progging, you do mistakes and learn from them. People also don't die exclusively from mechanics they've never seen before, you know.
It used to exist as more of a secret. For about 5 seconds you'd be invincible but it wouldn't show you the buff like it does now
One thing I do actually like about the repair mechanic is the thought of "ok we keep wiping on this boss, lets back out recheck the guide or figure out what we're doing wrong before trying again," and the repair kind of forcing you to step away from the raid for a second to fix your stuff and clear your head.
Yeah but if you have the boss almost dead it's the worst things ever.
I remember playing Monk, getting hasted, and then attacking so fast that I ran out of TP and couldn't attack anymore.
That sounds like an absolutely awful system
Did some astro say arrow?
Arrow to the monk
I remember using Paeon or Battle Voiced Peon at a specific point in raids depending on the phase timing to ensure our melees didn't run out of TP.
@@jonton9228 What's extra dumb is haste only screwed up Monk but benefitted literally everyone else. Monk's mechanic was Greased Lightning, where as you do combos, you gain your own stacks of haste. If you played AST or SCH, you would have to avoid using certain buffs, and it meant lots of raid groups just didn't take monks!
One note. Mor Dhona and Idyllshire started out bare on their respective expantions and with each patch they built them all up to what they look like today. The firmament while it had player participation also started this way during this expansion. Seeing in game evolution of these cities has been one of the greatest experiences. I still look back fondly and marveled at Mor Dhonas progress each patch back in 2.X
Is THAT why Mor Dhona is at the bottom of the tp list despite not being the last area you unlock?😮
@@phoenixflamegames1 I think the real reason is because it is not under any city's jurisdiction.
I remember when TP was popular. People would consume that so fast, especially at the start of the pandemic.
had me in the first half not gonna lie.
Kronii humor
funniest weeb...
Waytoodank
omegalul
I played through the whole game wondering when I was gonna unlock the "TP" Bar only to realize what it was lol
you could say they... flushed the TP down the drain.
Its still weird for me seeing everyone with 10k mana. Larry didn't mention it but they got rid of piety, the stat that gives more mana
@@Nisi1 Piety still exists, it's just mana regen now instead of max mana, so only healers need it.
The day they removed TP was the greatest day for all DPS. It made dungeons so much faster because you could just button mash your AoE rotations to clear away the trash mobs instead of having to worry about running out of TP and being reduced to auto-attacks until it refilled.
Yeah I was lucky that I started as thaumaturge rather than a melee class otherwise I woulda lost the rest of my hair lmao.
Yeah, resource and enmity management have seriously changed from the days of 2.0.
9:19 Mount cast times. Mounts should be instant cast, ESPECIALLY in FFXIV, where there's no world PvP. GW2's instant cast mounts are so fucking nice.
One thing Larry forgot was tanking in 3.0. For one, DRK was way more mp intensive. You had to balance between tank stance, dark side, and then know when exactly top pop off your OGCDs.
man the removal of TP is what brought me back to the game in the first place. Nothing took the wind out of my "fun sails" faster than just not being allowed to do anything while waiting for TP to come back as a melee dps.
"Do I use sprint and save myself, or just take the death?" melee dps everywhere.
TP removal was wonderful, prior to it you basically were rolling that math meme anytime you needed to AoE.
Plus it made you resent lazy Bards and Ninjas.
The worst was playing tank and losing agro bc you aoed too much, leading to loss to TP but then you couldn't aoe to hold agro bc you had no TP.
@@averijames3741 This is another reason why it was a requirement to level gladiator as a tank. It gave you access to flash, which was an AoE enmity generator that used your MP instead of TP.
TP fucking sucked. I used to hate when tanks would do big pulls because my TP would drain so fast from doing AoEs. Jobs already have resources to manage; there was no reason for TP to exist on top of that. So glad it's gone, and screw anyone who calls it "casualization".
Asmongold: “Dungeon Finder ruined WoW”
Also Asmonbald: “Yeah Duty Finder is awesome and saves you so much time”
I remember all of these things from back in the day. It's weird looking at how much has changed and seeing it compared to WoW, but it makes sense. Yoshida did say in so many words that this was to be the final fantasy version of world of warcraft. Seems They're hitting the mark.
So the game's director admitted to copying WoW? 🤔
@@jonton9228 yeah he's based.
and kicking the fans right in the dick
@@jonton9228 that's why ff is superior. The dev team actually plays the shit out of the game
@@SoulsorEchoes Your first mistake was calling a Japanese game better than WoW 🤔
The titan-egi on Ramuh thing reminds me of tanking adds on Al'ar with pets because they were immune to knockbacks for a long time.
Ppl bring SMN to raids just for the tank mechanic.
Though nonetheless, it’s scaling base on SMN HP though
Melee had some pretty high TP-draining skills. As a Bard, I never really had *too* much issue with managing TP + Invigorate if getting up after a death but then again if you hit AoE skills, well, TP's gone haha.
Before getting to know the sub-stat priorities properly (during Heavensward), I used to have way too much skill speed on ninja and I just kept running out of TP and Invigorate/Tactician(Army's Paeon at that time, I think) just couldn't keep up. Especially in Refurbisher savage where you could pretty much have 100% uptime. Having to struggle without TP for the last 30% or so of the fight was a very good incentive to learn the stat priorities at least if nothing else. All in all, TP's certainly a feature I don't miss at all.
All fun and games until you have to hit sprint
I remember when Monks could run out of TP just doing their regular rotation, especially AoE. Them getting a haste buff was actually bad because it meant their TP gauge would just rapidly deplete lmao.
TP was primarily set up as a limit to AoE spam (same for casters really but casters actually had stats to affect their MP pool and regen, but TP was static outside of bard songs and got worse with skillspeed)
@@cattysplat it certainly contributed but I don't think it was actually much of a limitation for dungeon pulls. MP especially regenerates super fast out of combat anyway, so maybe it just held melee and ranged back on that front.
Probably a bigger factor, at least for early leveling, is the fact that they gave all tanks aoe skills at basically any level.
As for boss encounters, its probably a big reason why add phases are much easier in old content but SB and onward the fights are obviously designed with that in mind again.
Abilities being available for one specific job is actually a classic thing from prev games. But I can see why it won't work on an MMO.
Yeah like FF3, FF5 and Tactics. Cool concept for singleplayer, annoying for MMOs.
i actually didn't mind this bc i forced me to play other classes to try them out, and didn't have to level them high anyway. as a return player, this video was a great catch-up!
You used to be able to not only put 3-4 DoTs from your class on Summoner, but also Aero and Thunder from White and Black Mage, giving you 6 DoTs to maintain at once.
Did you know there’s a limit to how many DoTs a world boss can have? It used to be much more relevant lol
@@NataliaNeeSama I think FF 11 had this, isn't it?
I think it works on Single player games, it because you don't entirely dependent on other people to win, also you could level up at your own place.
I've said it in a previous vid comment, but I think you'd love the FFXIV series by Speakers Network 'The Fall and Rise of FFXIV' It's several episodes long, but the first 5 deal with pre 2.0, while the rest tell of the difficulties surrounding 2.0 onward. You'll really enjoy it I think.
In FFXIV repairs are those things that pop up a message when I'm about to go queue for a duty sometimes. They don't help immersion in any way and should be removed. Otherwise the player base will just continue to say "oh, I guess I gotta port to limsa real fast" every few days.
It's not meant for immersion, it's meant as a gilsink. It's kind of shit at it, since it's so cheap, but every little bit helps.
I just carry some dark matter and repair it myself.
@@fjshdf I understand that it's a gil-sink, but it's a gil-sink that makes players drop whatever they're doing and attend to it every so often. It detracts from the enjoyability of the game, if only marginally, and doesn't provide any substantial benefit to justify it's existence. This is a very minor issue to me, but I think the fact stands that the repair system is a very small net negative for the game.
@@s.m.4995 Huh, that ain't really been my experience with it, but I guess that's just because I keep things repaired due to habit. Get out of a dungeon, port home, extract materia, equip new gear to gear sets, repair, turn around retainer quick ventures, port to Ul'dah, turn in unused dungeon loot/old gear/retainer venture rewards to GC, queue for dungeon. It might be more anything if you don't have crafters leveled and can't repair everything yourself anywhere, but you can put a mender down next to a retainer bell in an apartment and just repair whenever you check your retainers and it's done.
I mean, most cities/villages in expansions now usually have a mender sitting there. I just repair when I see one
@@darkevilazn or if your glamour and housing is your endgame and you're not a crafter or gatherer lol
when stance dancing was a thing, as well as sprinting using tp, the game had a more visible distinction between the "quality" of the tanks.
In general, the game has lost some complexity because of it but it may be said it was an artificial complexity for the sake of complexity and deemed required due to the overtune of the raids which then (over)flowed into normal dungeons when raiders were doing them.
I think that it effectively did teach the tanks that they are required to plan and track all of their cds in addition to the mechanics of the fight. Tanks also needed to track the mana of the healer(s) and calculate when their dps is actually more useful to the dungeon/raid dmg vs a tank in a dps stance and manage their stance and general ingame plan according to the flow of the raid (like unexpected deaths that could prevent you going yolo on the boss).
So lots of variables were removed, simplifying the "algorithm" and allowing more brain power to be used on handling the mechanics and less on the cds and unpredictable situations.
I personally was proud of my stance dancing and general performance as a tank (warrior), as I managed to be good enough so that my grouped cleared A3S and A4S before the (first) nerfs. We survived where many have fallen.
I can understand the need for the change/removal, as it was also frustrating to me and constantly putting me outside of my comfort zone, but when I look back at it, I kind of miss it.
It was a mechanic that allowed us to see how bad we were, how much we learned and progressed while remembering all the growing pain in between and allowed us to show everyone what have we become (a bunch of SoB / elitists :0 ) .
That being said, I think the game is more enjoyable without those mechanics for the majority of people and that majority pays the bills. Probably eases up new tanks into the raids and the result is a less toxic playerbase.
The gameplay was better back then, period. No need to sweeten words up.
@@AdamBlade17 Get off your high horse. That is an entirely subjective opinion and you know it.
@@IAmDaedem The old gameplay being significantly more complex and engaging is objective. You can argue that the new gameplay is better because it made the experience of new and casual players smoother, but that's a good thing only for as long as the game is continuously growing. What happens once it reaches a plateau and all the veterans start getting bored by the dumbed down gameplay and leave? You get retail WoW.
@@AdamBlade17 I'm not a good player, so I can't comment on the high end raiding part, but simple doesn't necessarily have to be boring. I see where you're coming from, but I also feel that if you can make the gameplay loop fun and/or distinctive enough, it can maintain fans. For me, current WAR is simple but still requires enough planning to be engaging while also giving me a fun loop to keep me interested. Again, though, I'm sure my high level raiders and tanks miss the old days.
@@AdamBlade17 more complex =/= more challening. Chess is fairly easy to learn but has an insane skill cap. It's much hardee to excel in chess than TCGs for example, which have hundreds of mechanics and are more complex
IMO the effect of repair system and similarly content time lockouts is that it gives you a defined point at which to break up content "Well gears dead/times up guess I'll call it there" and I really wouldn't want that gone because I'd probably end up grinding way longer without that little nudge to stop.
Yeah some of these shitty QoL things actually came from FFXI, which preceded wow. Especially things like Rogue / NIN being a hate / emnity management job. that was its primary function in FFXI pretty much .
Hilariously Ninja was never intended to be a tank but because it had some of the best enmity management skills and when paired with a thief’s sneak/trick attack became a fantastic choice, it naturally fell into the role.
I've been playing since ARR's beta, and can confirm everything Larry says is 100% true. Bard's having the generic healer LB was mostly since it was the only support job, and the songs actually were *immensely* more helpful since they helped with stuff like MP and TP regen. Bards were legitimately REQUIRED in high level content.
I recall in the beta, your TP regened faster if you were sitting down. So my poor Roegadame lancer would just be sitting in the grass in the woods after killing one mob since it was faster to grind that way.
I was't a beta player. Heck I was barely a realm reborn player. I made my account and tried it out in realm reborn, but I really started playing properly in heavensward.
I remember that you only used to be able to get rested EXP by logging out in the Inn (or was it just main city?).
Bard still very uselfull before shadowbringers
at stormblood they still has very usefull song buff and mp/tp regen
sadly due to new dancer job, bard getting rekt. it is not same anymore. feels more like a ranger than something between support dancer and dps machinist
hopefully they revamp the job in endwalker
@@writer_man5318 that's correct, in the inn or main city, which were originally the only things considered "sanctuaries", and being in a sanctuary is what built up your rested exp. Also, if you changed jobs outside of a sanctuary, it would put all your skills on cooldown.
Then later they expanded it so all areas in proximity of a crystal were considered a "sanctuary", and removed the penalty for swapping jobs in the open.
FWIW the sitting thing was just a placebo, there was no actual increase or decrease to the amount of TP you'd regen
in regards to wasting time less, FFXIV's autoloot felt so huge to me coming from WoW. It always baffles me how WoW seems to take a step in the right direction but never seem confident enough to follow-through. They do level scaling but only in some zones, then expand further but still having brackets. They do personal loot but instead of doing autoloot with it, they removed master loot as well. Aoe autoloot was a mild improvement, but true autoloot saves so much time. I know there's loot-a-rangs and such, but it feels so nice in FFXIV just going from mob to mob without needing to right click or toss rangs each time for loot.
Bro with the TP thing he did not mention how much that screwed over AoE. For some reason your AoE moves ate up way more TP than your single target so you'd run out if you had to do them for too long and large pulls would take forever.
Man, this game was soooooo different lol. I've been playing since 2.1 so just seeing the change over time has been fascinating.
It just gets worse and worse though 🤔
@@jonton9228 Elaborate.
@@KrazyBean14 Stealing mechanics from wow, getting awful pvp, even some names were stolen. Shadowlands/Shadowbringers
@@jonton9228 Nice trolling KEKW
@@kazyeeel The devs of ff14 literally admitted to stealing from WoW.
When I first played FF11, I struggled to stay playing because: 1. I was trash and 2. because I was trash I kept de-leveling from 10 to 9, than back to 10, then back to 9. 3. because of 1 and 2 I didnt have the drive to get better.
"I like how a lot of these stupid mechanics were actually WoW mechanics"
Actually they were from FF11. Their first MMO and I'm glad they got rid of them. In that game, dying caused you to lose exp. If you died enough you would go down in lvls. If you were trying to raid and 1 person screwed up that wiped the party. It made you want to kick that person because lvling up took hours.
T7 is a shadow of it's former self. I spent hours learning how to be the puller on the fight. Only for it to be in vain.
Was going to point this out. Glad I am not the only one who remembered this.
i enjoyed 11 for being forced to be a good player and if you were good everyone on your server knew it and you always had party invites I also miss exp parties because i use to chat with people and we would get to know each other now on 14 its fast dungeon runs and raids and nobody really knows each other or their job so you get lots of crappy ppl. I know some of this is nostalgia and I do remember farming cuz money was hard I liked too much stuff from 11 but there were lots of time sinks and now i dont have time.
Wait, is Asmongold seriously defending the RAID FINDER??? After shitting on it on WoW for so many years because it destroyed server communities???
This man is lost, the catgirls have completely taken over his brain.
It's popular to praise FF for stuff he criticizes wow for because FF makes him more money now.
Raid finder is better when the base game is better to begin with.
@@s0515033 Dude's already a millionaire before he even played FF what the fuck are you talking about.
@@Ichiad24 rich people like money too
@@s0515033 dude been living his whole life inside that house, He's been using decade old shirts, he's played Warcraft his entire life. He hasn't begged his viewers for money or for subs, He's been donating for charity frequently, just based on this do you really think he'll praise a game for money. yes rich people also like money but we don't know asmongold entirely to judge him based on that. WoW base game is dogshit and he's praising FF because he thinks it's good it's not about the money.
Oh god i remember having to level two classes for a job. when a friend joined i tried helping them and they were confused about what i was talking about. so glad they removed that. i HATED cross class abilities. This is stirring things i forgot i hated
@derp derpin I can agree to a point. I mean this was my favorite game then and I still commit most my free time to the game but now that the game has a lot more content they dont need to artificially lengthen the game anymore.
@Stevean2 I think the problem with it is the restrictions it has. While you have people who are perfectly fine with grinding all jobs, some just don't have the time in the day. What I wish is they expand and diverse particularly with tanks and healers. I don't mind that they have similar ish skills but some really needs some way to diversify the experience. WAR and DRK comes into mind. Both jobs are much less the same and I feel like Sage will definitely consume what little niche SCH has.
@derp derpin It was interesting for sure, but fun was no part of it. "Oh ye I HAVE to play this thing that I don't want otherwise my main thing isn't gonna be anywhere near as good as it should be..."
Man, Im scared that Star Wars The Old Republic is going this route with its combat enchantment update where you can use other class abilities that you leveled up.
Now that leveling classes goes by faster it wouldn't be that big of a deal. My issue was starting out I got annoyed that that I had to put the game on hold so I could go level another class to get a basic role ability. I have all my classes leveled nowa days sure but back then I just wanted to get to the raids where my friends were.
It does make a difference to have many small rp elements. They all add up to an experience as if living in that world to some small degree. Repair costs, potential problems and stress if you get damaged too much. The need to travel across the world to your destination facilitating world pvp/general encounters, chatting to make friends with your group during travel, importance of sticking with the party you have and making it work; oh and making your earned mounts even more important and special to have obtained. Not to mention just having the world feel like a big world thanks to the travel. Many of the fast travel ones honestly feel like tiny worlds, I miss the grand scale feeling things like wow classic had because the world itself had its own role to play in this way on top of much more.
I think it all adds up to a better world really. Could be toned down or up in some areas, but otherwise actually good to have. They are the type of things that by themselves look pointless but add to a better whole world building/rp wise. Actually wish they were more involving/in depth in some aspects. It would be a huge comment if I went into how to do it and do so well though. xD
For cleric stance:
[Thank you for correction, it should be Mind, not Spirit. maybe I play too much RPG or other MMORPG :( ]
Back then, magic power relies on INT, while healing power relies on MND. Normally, healer will put every stats they got from levelling to MND (yes, back then you get status point from levelling and allocate it by yourself while leveling), but it gave a problem from duty quest because healer could not kill. So the devs gave a solution for that with Cleric Stance, this skill swap the MND and INT stats while active, that's why healer could not heal while Cleric Stance is active because no MND and vice versa. If i'm not mistaken, the system was changed at Stormblood where healer dps relies on MND too, not INT, but ONLY for healer.
Oh yeah, during ARR, race starting stat was really important for some class. For example Black Mage, the most powerful DPS back then, ever wonder why all of the member of Thaumaturge guild are Lalafell? you will not be a great Black Mage if your are not a Lalafell, beacuse Lalafell got more INT for starting stats and MORE MP so you could cast ONE MORE FIRE before switching to BLIZZARD.
I loved cleric stance, it made playing a healer really exciting, getting good in a fight meant for a healer not only knowing when to expect the big hits to precast but also when you had a window for cleric stance.
Shantotto in the distance: *OHOHOHOHOHOHO*
@@masha8770 Healer main stat is Mind, not Spirit. This has never changed.
@@Yoran507 Ah pardon me, why I called it by SPR. It should be Mind. :(
@@masha8770 Agree with you, but back then the Cleric Stance also gave huge controversies between a pure healer and a healer that would dps-ing within a fight.
I remember when I went to FF14 healer's forum, there were a lot of debates whether the healer should dps or not. Some people think that cleric stance is just a tool in MSQ, but others think that it is a skill that need to be optimized to separate a good healer to a great healer.
Repairing is a money sink that in a way also helps to combat bots while also giving some light punishment for death. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing, it can be actually a good thing though I do think it should be more convenient which in FF14 if you have your crafters high enough, you can use dark matter and repair your gear anywhere you want with it gaining bonus durability for doing so.
At this point the gear repair is so trivial in a long run that I think it's only in place to add a bit more incentive to level crafters. You make a good point about bots though.
Repairing doesnt prevent bots from spamming ads in chat it just makes them not be able to farm mobs. If anything I'd just keep it on for bosses so that people are forced to take breaks when continually dying from them.
@@Sephiroso. Somehow the biggest single player RPGs you thought of were NOT Elder Scrolls or the FPS Fallouts, since Repair in both series are given their own skill listing and mechanics.
@@Sephiroso. Single Player RPGs don't have to worry about the player economy. If someone bots in a single player game then Oh well, it only effects them. I mean Single Player RPGs sometimes have cheat codes, why not allow MMos to have cheat codes were you can get infinite money or powerful items since players wouldn't mind that?
@@StraightcheD True with the cost to some extent, but its one of those things that slowly add up over time, same with teleporting.
Sure once you get further in teleporting cost seems trivial, but you spend 500 here, 1k there, teleport 100 times you could be spending 50k-100k. Its reasonable to expect if you are actively playing you are going to probably teleport around a decent amount each session.
This part about classes is straight out of ffXI. Thats how you did classes then. You had to level two classes usually to unlock high jobs.
Also comes from FF3, FF5, FF Tactics, etc.
@@UltimaKeyMaster i think it mostly boils down to the devs not really knowing any better at the time since rezzes in wow also took 10 secs to cast and couldn't even be used in combat if you remember- they had battle rez skills and those had a short cast but was also on a 10 minute cool down or smth, whereas in ffxiv you don't have that limitation
Thank you asmongold for voicing a very important viewpoint about punishment in games. People often group together 'hard' and 'punishing' and point fingers at something like Dark Souls as if that's the end all be all of arguments when they can't point out specifically what makes a game punishing or rewarding
I remember back pre-HW when all the melee had to level Dragoon, and this was before they did a rework on Lancer to be more cohesive - so the true filter of playing a melee DPS was if you could actually stand playing a Lancer for long enough to get to level 30. Lancer was a COMPLETE mess before they changed it, where in many cases you wanted to break your combo to sit and literally just spam 1 button, because it did more damage than doing a full combo. Which meant your entire leveling experience was to go into fates and mash 1 button while slowly, SLOWLY getting XP. It even felt slower because it was *necessary* to do that if you wanted to be remotely competitive in damage.
Repairing is to prevent inflation. Seriously, it’s only point is to suck money out of the world.
@derp derpin well yeah if it was more expensive then everyone would be upset. It is just one of the ways to keep inflation in check. The real money sink is housing but that has issues with memory needed to maintain them. Which is why housing is so rare and expensive.
RIP Protect and Stoneskin. Also Asmon, as a tank here is one you would hate. You had two stances, Tank stance and Dps Stance, and your skills would change based upon which you had. So throughout the fight you would stance dance to take less dmg, do more dmg, and keep emnity. PLD also did not get their stance until lvl 42, instead they had Sword Oath until then.
Bards used to be casters in HW because Wanderer's gave you cast times. Warriors and Ninjas put slashing down debuffs on things, Drk had extra resistance to Magic Skill, and PLD literally did nothing but be a meat shield. Ninja had 4 different combos by the end of HW, and 2 sperate dots that were GCDs, not to mention two different "poisons" they put on their daggers that would change a skill called jugulate, which no longer exists.
There was no such thing as a KB immunity except for one PLD had, so if you didn't want to get knocked back to Pld would pop that and cover you so they took it for you, but neither would be affected. We also had things like Flash, which was a mana based AoE enmity grabber, as well as an AoE PROVOKE. I forget what it was called. There were not AoE combos for most classes, as well as there used to be AoE dots. Beserk, the old IR, would silence you after 10s, and the healer would Esuna you. Sch's were glorified SMN, and let me tell you about old Astro.
Each card had a meaning and a use. Bole was for taking less dmg, Balance was more dmg, Spire was tp regen, Spear was Crit chance increase, Arrow was Skill Speed, and Ewer was Mp regen. Spire and Ewer if consumed would grant a "spread" which meant everyone in the party could get the next card. Bole consumed made something longer, and Balance consumed made something more potent. I forget what Spear and Arrow consumed did. You also could increase the time of a card by using a skill I forget the name of.
There is more, but those are some things he didn't include.
And mobs can crit you from the sides or behind
Royal Road Spear & Arrow extended the buff duration. Bole/Balance doubled potency, Spire & Ewer halved potency to give full party spread. iirc World First UwU clear succeeded because of a spread Bole
Spear was crit chance? What expansion was this? I distinctly remember it reducing cooldowns on abilities, so you'd put it on bards for slightly faster Bloodletter, for instance.
I was rewatching old videos and I totally had forgotten what a pain it was to recast Protect on the whole party every time someone got ressed, or individually casting Stoneskin on each party member before a big attack and on the tanks before tank busters... not to mention every wipe reset /dead
@@Qamikace Arrow was the speed one.
They force us to repair to remove Gil from the game. Keeps Gil inflation down. It's the same reason we have taxes on the market board :) I thought it was dumb until I realized why they were doing it too.
Them changing Titan-egi is the reason why i never went back to Summoner.
If they would of just made it to where you can't summon him during raid then that would of been soooo much better.
Tanking became alot easier after Shadowbringers came out and changed/simplified alot of job's kits.
it also simplified the healing classes too. Ast's cards are far more simple now.
Hearing Larry talk abaout Titan-egi tanking reminded me of running around the open world for fates and having Titan tank everything for me because Sustain was an insane amount of healing for no effort back then. Or using him to tank dungeons when the actual tank DC'd
Okay I think aggro was actually fine back in the day. I don't think it was "vestigial." I mean what even is tanking anymore? The bosses don't need to be dragged anywhere, their autos don't cleave , there's no adds, there's just 2 or three times a fight where you need to use your invul. Tanking is just DPS with easier rotations.
I agree that most of the stuff he calls a waste of time were, but not the aggro system
Quite a few bosses still cleave.
@@Dastreus not auto cleaves. Can't think of a ShB. I'm talking no cast bar. Diamond Weapons have autos that naturally cleave but they still hit has hard as autos
Many ARR bosses like Titan, Ifrit, Levi.. still cleave without cast time.
@@CrystVeno Yes but that is not relevant content. I'm talking about going forward ShB+
Shared abilities are actually really cool; you actually feel like your character is becoming STRONKER through their EXPeriences, rather than just dinging to glory
I actually kinda miss the old cleric stance. It made healing more interesting
would like it if in endwalking one of the healer get a dsp phase where he do some healing while dpsing
remember when scholar was fun to play?
It gave a good healer challenge in heavensward if you got the seal rock gear via 100 wins and then wore that n int accessories and healed entire dungs in cleric stance so you made min ill but had far lower heals. It was a good way to train tanks with cds. Full pulls of course.
All but the 2.5 dings I was able to do it jn
.. and I miss stance dancing as a tank.
Not really. Bad players didn't DPS period. For healers that wanted to DPS, it was just an extra button to press before using damage spells. It didn't really add any depth. Players that did 0 DPS back then still do 0 DPS
its interesting to see the stuff i went thru when i started playing alongside stuff that was already removed before i did. i 10000% do not miss that TP bar, it was the absolute bane of my existence as a bard
To this day I still miss the differences between Selene and Eos. Scholar really got the short end in Shadowbringers
Remember when people who never played anything but WOW claimed exactly those mechanics made WoW fun?
Reminds me of Stockholm Syndrom...
I think there can be fun in some of them. But it needs the game to be designed for them, otherwise they just feel clunky and like they hold the game back. That said, not sure even WoW had done a great job at that :P
But that means you get people who want a MMO well designed for such things that see the potential for it in some of the mechanics for WoW and will those find it somewhat fun in a way.
Think that's more the way of sandbox MMOs, while most people seem to currently enjoy theme park MMOs.
When I think of trash mobs, I think of back into vanilla: Where the trash in dungeons had a chance to drop set items. When pulls had to be planned out with CCs and focused damage.
Course the game has been long solved, and people just skip to the end, the journey is long gone and it's only about the destination.
I don't remember Cleric Stance doing that at all. If I remember correctly, Cleric stance swapped your MND and INT. You could still heal, your heals were less. I believe the last update to it, it didn't swap stats, but instead reduced healing by 20% and increased damage by 20%. I never remember being unable to heal. I only remember it being inefficient to heal with it on.
Arr/hw cleric stance is what he is talking about not Sb.
@@runicex2310 - I know, I used to play back in 1.0 too. I was talking about 2.0 (ARR) specifically with the MND/INT swap and later on it being 20% reduction to healing with a 20% increase to damage.
In HW, it swapped your MND and INT and gave 10% buff to your INT.
In SB, it only gave you a flat 10% damage bonus and was a cooldown, not a stance.
I don't remember it ever being the 20% reduction/increase thingy you are talking about.
There's some misinformation in this video. That being one of them. He makes it sound like Cleric stance completely reduces your heal to 0, or that not having enough accuracy stat meant you absolutely never landed a hit on the boss, when the reality is that your attacks just weren't 100% guaranteed to land, and Cleric stance just reduced healing while on.
@@cg2371 - That is exactly what I remember too.
@6:20 FFXI had active threat management via Trick attack from Thief @lvl30 long before tricks of the trade in TBC
I think a potentially unintended benefit of repair mechanics are that they force you to take a break from continually running bosses which could help in the long term with player retention. So I think if anything were to damage gear it should only be bosses.
Omnicrafters with 500x grad 7 dark matter say hi.
@@Faerindel Good luck finding 7 other people who give a shit about crafting just to not have to talk to an NPC once in a while.
@@Boyzby on a raid team it's not too uncommon because of door bosses. If someone's gear breaks when you have an hour+ left on the instance and you're progging the second phase of the fight, having to leave to repair means having to do phase one again. So a lot of raiders will level certain crafters to avoid that being a problem, even if the level method they use is buying levekits.
"Sekiro has almost no punishment." Yeah right, half the moves you have in your characters kit require you to use Spirit Emblems, and they don't just reappear after you die or rest. If you die multiple times to a boss, you gotta go and grind money so you can buy a bunch more spirit emblems just so you can have a decent try on a boss. And they're way more expensive than repairing your items in most of the mmos. Plus you've got a bunch of other consumable items you might want. Especially you need to use a certain consumable item to even be able to DAMAGE some bosses. You'll need to use multiple ones throughout the fight because the buff has a short duration. Plus for certain bosses you need to stock up on the item that removes/grants resistance to Terror, because without it Terror builds up so fast you need to have a speedrun level strategy and skill to kill the bosses fast enough to avoid the instant death from Terror.
Sekiro is much worse with punishing players for dying to bosses than the Souls-series. (With the exception of Demon's Souls) Souls games have consumable items, but your most important ones of Estus flask, and if you use magic, spell uses/mana bar restore themselves on death or resting at a bonfire. Imagine if in order to cast spells, in addition to equipping the spell to one of your limited slots to get X amount of uses, you had to buy consumable Spirit Emblems in order to use them.
And you even have a mechanic that says if you die too many times. YOU CAN NO LONGER TALK TO CERTAIN IMPORTANT NPC:S OR COMPLETE THEIR QUESTS. So you have to get an expensive and rare consumable item to fix that. Oh and not only that, with each NPC that is "disabled" in your game, the chance you can keep your money and exp after dying is lowered.
Sekiro is a good game, but saying that it has almost no punishment for dying is total bullshit. Also, Asmongold says Path of Exile punishes you too much, when it has a 10% exp penalty on death in late game? In Sekiro you lose FIFTY PERCENT of your current exp (and gold). And which game do you think kills you way more often?
literally the reason i stopped playing sekiro, i didnt make it that far, but lady butterfly basically requiring a consumable item was bulshit enough to make me tired of needing to farm just to get a decent try at her
Sounds like Sekiro is trash then.
Played Sekiro until I got platinum in PS4, never noticed anything you said except for Dragonrot, the one that you said 'you can no longer talk to certain important NPCs etc etc', it was easy to alleviate and/or avoid, no NPC has to die. Super easy.
Terror/Illusions/Flame/shits and giggles from the headless/shichimen? Yeah all of these can be solved without any items. Lady butterfly? Never noticed you can shuriken her while she's jumping at my first two playthroughs, I just get better at parrying. Demon of Hatred? I don't even use Umbrella. Flame Isshin? Saint Isshin? same stuff.
You can parry almost 99% stuff in Sekiro, that's what Asmon means by 'the game is difficult, but not punishing'.
I'm not even a good player.
In all souls game you LOSE SOULS every time you die, but YOU 100% CAN get them back (and it's also, once again, piss easy). You want punishing mechanics?
Go play Super Mario 1 in NES, or any NES games, really, where literally all your progress is lost upon dying.
Oh and for PoE, do you know how long it is to get your 10% exp back at level 95+? HOURS lost upon 1 instance of death (which can happen lots of time in the course of 10 minutes against big bosses e.g. Uber Atziri, Aul, Uber Elder, Maven, Veritania/Phoenix/Mino, Cyrus, each and everyone of those in Highest Awakener Lv.) In lv 99? Trust me, losing 10% exp is as devastating as losing a loved one. I would rather just make a new character and play HC-SSF than leveling one toon to lv 100.
And once again, I'm not even a good player.
I wouldn't know, i literally didn't use anything outside of the katana and i thought the game was easy. If you just learn the fights instead of trying to cheese with the gear/consumables the game is actually pretty fun. (Except for that 1 trash mob that requires a specific buff to kill, idk why they did that but it's horrible, Divine confetti shouldnt have been necessary to kill them)
My favorite unintentional cheese mechanic is from City of Heroes. One of the powers of Dark Miasma (heal/buff/debuff set) was Howling Twilight. It was an AoE enemy stun plus AoE ally rez, but it required an enemy target so (in theory) it couldn't be used outside combat. The Trick Arrow set, added to the game later, had Oil Slick Arrow, which caused enemies to trip while in it, but if you hit it with fire or energy damage it would light on fire and do damage as well; in order for that mechanic to work it, had to be targetable as an enemy.
One of the times the devs changed the mechanics for Hamidon (world boss), they were watching people try to find a way to defeat it. After one of many near-wipes, people used Recall Friend to pull the bodies together out of range of Hamidon, someone with Trick Arrow used Oil Slick Arrow, and someone with Dark Miasma targeted the oil slick to use Howling Twilight for a mass-rez. Seeing this, one of the devs actually said "WTF?!"
Ah, I miss that old game. Would love a good solid superhero MMO in the 2020s.
@@spectacledWolf The graphics are showing their age, but there are CoH fan servers, and they're actually getting bugfixes and even new content.
When Larry said cooldowns used to stay on wipes you could tell Asmon was having vietnam flashbacks
>TP gets mentioned
>Goading intesifies
I miss the days of Wineport being the raid hub. Id love to have another "raid" hub again.
Seikiro actually does punish you. The more you die the worse off your npcs get.
its like learning to play an instrument, but after you fail the note you gotta repair the instument, theres hard and theres being punished for mistakes
One thing I remember we used to do in 14 was before we start a dungeon or raid or whatever the healers always cast protect, I think that's what it was I know they kept casting some kind of buff.
Protect and then a bit later Stoneskin II for White Mage.
@@DarkLotusAlpha Thank you.
Much of the cross class stuff sounds like it was from FFXI. Only Warrior had Provoke. But NOBODY played warrior past 30. You Nin/War Pld/War because those jobs brought so much more than a high level War. So you had to Sub-Job Warrior to have that as tank. Enmity was not a magic button. In XI you had to constantly work to stay ahead of your DD's in hate generation. Overzealous Blm/Rangers would pull hate and get their butts handed to them. Subjobs allowed for more ability customization, but yes there was a progression on what you HAD to level first to do certain things. Death in XI imposed an exp penalty that 1/2 your exp went to paying off the penalty. Raise III mitigated much of the penalty and people would REFUSE a raise if the only thing available was Raise I or II.
TP used to be what you had to build up to use a Weaponskill. Now, Weaponskills are just what you do every 2-4 seconds. Samurai had a move to build 100% TP instantly to do a Weaponskill.
Oh.. and in XI, MP only regenerated when you knelt down to rest if you did not have a Rdm casting Refresh.
XI Thief had Trick Attack that transferred enmity to the tank. Sounds like Nin/Rogue started out with this then they ditched the entire enmity mechanic.
Cross class skills was also in a couple earlier final fantasy like ff3. It was a neat idea just didn't really work in an mmo
As a 75WAR it's always funny to see people say no one played it past 30. It's as if I don't exist. I only wish the gobbies thought I was invisible too.
Our FC always did the Turn 2 ADS enrage cheese. Manderville until enrage timer was up. Go in with three healers and two bards - spam Medica/Medica II and Mage's Ballad for unlimited MP.
I hated TP overall. The game design direction didn't really gel with it. It may have been different if they made 'time' a resource which you have to manage at 3.0 onward, but clearly they didn't go in that direction.
@@UltimaKeyMaster In that sense, yeah that's an interesting point. But I was thinking more of 'time' as in actually "managing" time. Like, having a heal with a very long cast time but uses little MP. Or deliberately not using a GCD and resting for a while in order to boost MP/TP (for example).
The way FF14 is designed now, generally you're obliged to hit a GCD the moment it becomes available. There is no meaningful player choice there in managing GCD expenditure.
And I think the way it has gone is right; gaming is becoming more fast-action oriented, so I think it has a broader appeal because of it.
The term vestigial is well used here, because a lot of these mechanics and features no longer have a use, at least in the line of MMO evolution that resulted in WoW and FFXIV. However, they did once have a use (for the most part), and in the right style of MMORPG they are still appropriate. MMORPGs, in the line of WoW, are not sandboxes, they are not player-driven worlds, and they are not focused on that type of immersion, at least insofar as gameplay is executed. They are mechanics-forward, meaning they are built on rotations and on raid mechanics. They are games first, and worlds second. They have systems to master, not worlds to conquer. Is there anything wrong with this? No. These games are highly popular and people enjoy them a great deal. However, just because things like gathering at a dungeon entrance do not make sense in WoW or FFXIV anymore, it doesn't mean they don't have an important place in other branches of the genre. In fact, I think you'll find some of those "vestigial" features making a reappearance in Ashes of Creation and New World. Variety is a good thing, after all.
Sadly there don't seem to be many sandbox MMOs about :f
@@MaakaSakuranbo True, but it needn't be strictly a sandbox for a MMO to utilize some of the things no longer necessary in WoW/FF14. Personally, I think the way forward may be in the "sand-park" style, which is kind of the angle of NW and AoC. Archeage could have been a longstanding, top 5 MMO in the west if it wasn't for the pay to win, and it fits the definition of sand-park pretty well.
I feel like these things have value in FF14 because of the story. Things like having to run to an NPC to repair your gear, or having to locate a dungeon physically the first time before you can enter it in the duty finder ties the experiences of the character to that of the player, which raises the emotional investment in the world and thus the payoff from the story.
@@CErra310 Maybe, yeah. Dungeon re-runs are kinda non-canon anyway I guess. Don't think I ever felt like running to an NPC to repair did anything though xD
The old Cleric Stance.
It did a few things, it swapped your Int and Mind stats (Int increasing damage with spells, Mind increasing healing done), and it also gave a penalty to healing done and a bonus to damage done.
With Cleric Stance on, you unironically were the weakest healer in the game. Black Mages could take Physick from Arnacist and with it were stronger healers than a Cleric Stance'd healer.
fun fact: thief's trick attack in ff11 was the original aggro xfer mechanic, before wow rogues got tricks of the trade. trick attack had a positional requirement that the thief using the ability had to position behind the tank while attacking the mob to make the enmity transfer possible.
I remember one of the first times I had to position myself for that, thankfully I was a ninja which strangely enough was an off tank in FFXI
I remember specifically about the time wasting thing that when the game released in China and I think Korea there were a lot of laws about how long minors could play games. Unsynchronized content was a direct result of this because you'd have people using all of their time just waiting in queue and couldn't even progress the story
Ah, the good ol' days of Summoner. I loved taking on stronger enemies when soloing. Now, Titan just...looks fine. That's it. I hate Summoner nowadays - there are other casters who are just more fun to play today, in comparison to before. Arcanist/Summoner used to be my favorite class, but now it's my least favorite - they have completely ruined that class, in my opinion.
I was there for all of this, Played since the Beta of 2.0. Such memories!
same i love the game especially how easy it is to pick up after not playing for a while. I did enjoy the content being harder like I remember getting my ass handed to me when titan ex came out and now its too easy even min iLvL
Can't believe he didn't mention you couldn't accept duty queues with your Chocobo out.
And if you were fate farming with your chocobos out, you could only have 4 people in the party and 4 chocobos. If you wanted to fate farm with an 8 man party, you had to withdraw your chocobos.
"A lot of these abilities that ff used to have are actually wow mechanics" actually no, they were ffxi mechanics, which wow got a lot from. "Tricks of the trade" in wow did not come before the ffxiv ninja enmity trade, 14 took that ability from thief in 11s trick attack ability which was used the same way, and existed since 2002.
There's gotta be a balance between getting rid of time wasting stuff and pageantry imo. The immersion of going through a raid dungeon on raid night had a pretty cool feeling and was a good way to warm up and get some shit talking out of the way before it's time to focus up.
9:40 yes there is . Blackdesert make a P2W item for repairing outside town otherwise you have to waste your time running back to town and loosing your buff and grinding spot.
Or use the f2p version that cost 10x more silver on repairing when repairing outside town and the f2p version will expire in 24hours that needs to be replaced constantly.
Which basically forces you to buy that p2w item.
I actually really enjoy trash mobs in dungeons, provided they DO have important drops, and ARE CHALLENGING enough to make it interesting. I find it far more repetitive if I just join for a singular boss over and over.
Back in 2.0, Repair is legit a gil sink. The game doesn't shower you with Gils like they do now and the early days of 2.0, people actually can run out of gil because repairs cost is more expensive than the amount of gil you earn. I would legit not use teleport since it takes Gils.
Crafters made repairing trivial. If you have all your crafters to 70, you can repair your gear with higher durability. Even repairing during dungeons and raids.
"Repairing is trivial, all you have to do is spend 1500 hours becoming an omnicrafter". Next on Quick Strike's game guides he tells you how FF7 is trivial if you grind to get a gold chocobo on disc 2 and use Knights of the Round every fight.
@@rustyjones7908 Ishgard restoration made it a lot more faster levelling up. I went from no crafters leveled up to omnicrafter in 3 weeks of casual grind.
Be prepared to lose lots of gil though.
@@rustyjones7908 its not needed anymore to be an Omnicrafter. 1 Crafter lvl 70 is enough to repair all of your gear. And lets be Honest, leveling a crafter from 1 to 70 didnt even take that long.
Repairing has always been trivial. Unless they at some point had actual systems revolving around repairing, etc. Has it not always been a button click at the NPC?
People who think that you need "punishments" for "difficulty" and "gitting gud" has never truly played an actual difficult game. Go play a fighting game or fps, get destroyed by skilled players over and over again, that true difficulty will teach you how to git good, not wasting your time with "systems".
This. A truly difficult game will let you slam yourself head first into you can finally get through.
This is kind of ironic because it's true that punishment isn't the only way for something to be difficult, but that doesn't mean that the way difficulty is presented in fighting games and fps is the only way something can be difficult either. Think about rogue-like games, they're incredibly punishing because you literally lose permanently if you die. The difficulty in that case comes from the challenge being sustained, you're in a high stakes situation for probably hours on end, and while moment to moment the game asks less of you than something like a fighting game, every small mistake you make matters more and adds up over time. So I mean punishment isn't always the best way to design something, but I think it's worth noting that the challenge doesn't come from losing progress or having to redo stuff, it comes from having to perform well under the stress of knowing that the stakes are high.
That is why I like Dark Souls, tough but fair.
I think people don't realize the difference between "punishment" and "failure." "Failure" is just you not accomplishing what the game wanted you to do and having to try again, and there's nothing wrong with that. "Punishment" is when a game actively takes something away from you for failing.
Dying in Dark Souls isn't a punishment unless you were stupid and stockpiled Souls without spending them before going into a boss. Take the Soul loss out of the equation and dying to a boss is no different than falling in a pit in a Mario game and having to try again from the last checkpoint. So it could be said that Dark Souls is punishing you, but they aren't punishing you for failure (aka, dying), they're punishing you for making bad resource management decisions because if you handled your resources better you would never be in a position to lose much of anything.
Repair systems ARE punishing because the only thing they accomplish is making you lose time and in-game resources (repair costs) for enough failures. The only thing they accomplish is that after every dozen or so wipes you all have to take a bathroom break while some people hop out of the raid to spend some gold/gil before going right back to what you were doing.
Ah yes the TP bar. As a BLM/RDM main, I never dealt much with it and by the time I finally picked up melee/physical ranged classes, it was already on its way out, so my experience with it was limited. I remember it not being so bad on tank, but MCH and SAM would eventually have some troubles with it.
It was hell on tanks when they wanted to aoe because it'd eat like 3/4's of a bar per cast
@@Ladywizard I don't remember that much, you may be right. I didn't get into tanking more seriously until ShB. My PLD never saw much use before that. Did the old flash ability use TP or much of it? I remember having to use that as my aoe skill since we had nothing else to use for aoe. Dark days those were.
He missed that you used to die from fall damage. That shit killed me sooooooo many times.
You can still die from fall damage if you are in combat.
At some point I reeeeally hope he watches the NoClip doc on stream. That would be awesome
Yeah Savix, Rurikhan and Summit 1G watched that.
Stance dancing was POGGERS. Separated the men from the boys.
Yup. Or just play SCH. Stay in cleric stance and let Eos heal. She didn't get affected by cleric stance so she could heal just fine.
Real warrior chads stays on deliverance 90% of the time for the FELL CLEAVE
@@shinon748 Nah, the real play was to mainline Intelligence and summon Eos when in Cleric Stance.
That way you could DPS all day without anyone complaining about you having CS on :P
@@BlackTempleGaurdian cleric stance swapped your intelligence and mind stats. Putting those points into intelligence then hitting cleric stance would just make it become your mind stat lol
@@shinon748 Exactly! You switch your Int to Mnd, summon Eos, then switch back.
I'm surprised Larry didn't mention chocobos taking up party slots or worse, being unable to even queue for a dungeon with your chocobo out.
The indie platformer game Celeste is a great example of video game that's hard without being punishing.
I really liked og cleric stance was a fun time. I still have it on my hotbar.
JOB/SUBJOB system worked for FFXI, but didn't translate well for FFXIV. I appreciated it in FFXI for as long as I played it, and I am sure most agree, but having to commit to that same system again in FFXIV gave me a nightmares.
job/sub was amazing in XI because it let us find lots of interesting combos and expanded how we played. Some crazy person figured out a way to make a fragile speedster melee dps work as a tank, another one turned a pet class into a solo leveling giant that outpaced the job specifically tailored to be solo. and the devs just.. let us fucking do it.
"I guess ninjas are tanks now... whatever."
XIV didn't let us do that because the job stones utterly ripped all the cross-class spells away. I remember having a "Stoneless" static for a while just to see what we could do with everything.
A big PITA for early XIV (that I think killed a lot of people's desire to stick it out) was that you'd want to level certain jobs to certain places so you kept bouncing around until you eventually hit 30 on everything. "Level whm to get cure, then swap to archer for the dot, then start lancer" Or "Man I want to be a warrior tank! Well, first you want to start as a arcanist, so you get psycik, then go buy a chocobo ride and get to the harbor, then follow the road to Ul'dah and pick up gladiator..."
Well they did it halfway to prevent breaking the game.
@@cyclone8974 exactly. It wouldn’t have worked in the first place because 14 revolves around tightly tuned mechanic heavy fights. FF11 is a completely different type of game from a completely different era.
And that came from classic FF 3, FF 5, FF Tactics.
@@tommenno What is PITA?
Trash has an important role in raids. It introduces versions of the raid mechanics while also providing downtime between bosses. People overwhelming have not liked raids that are just a boss room. it also gives the impression that the raid is a lived-in, populated world instead of being a hallway with a door.
if you died, or sprinted as tank/melee, you lost all your TP.. no dps.. used to have put stats for each job, brd / nin needed dex.. etc, death 1, -25% stats, 2, -50% stats
i remember all of this. The cross class stuff also contributed alot to the skill bloat hw had. Since skills did not upgrade instead they were a completely separate skill that would just replace an old one but you had to keep the old one keybound just incase you were level synched down.
Some other notable things:
Whitemages had protect that was a cross job skill which was a must for all the healers. Tanks used to have 2 stances one for tanking and one for dpsing and both stances were different depending one which tank.
Example the paladin tank stance reduced damage dealt/taken by 20%
warriors tank stance increased max hp by 20% and reduced damage dealt by 20% and made certain abilities not useable
in hw dark knight was unique because it was the only tank that could turn both stances on at the same time while the other two tanks had to stance dance.
to even do high end content you basically had to get every single cross class skill to have a full kit meaning leveling every single job to 34.
It’s one of the things I kinda wish was still around honestly. I miss it. I understood what it was from a developers POV. FFXIV is so different because you can level every job, and by forcing cross class, you showed that off and made people interested in other jobs. I don’t miss having to only use sprint as a last resort, not getting a tank stance till 40, no aoe on pld until 50, cleric stance, or running out of tp in a fight.
Dude. I love how it worked with the cross job skill. Remind me of FF tactics. Was nice.
I don't think i heard this video mention it, but Tank Stance used to lower your dmg by 20%, and separate aggro combos used to exist too, as well as only specific skills in general having aggro boosts.
So back in the day, you'd open with 1 or 2 aggro combos and then just turn off tank stance for the rest of the fight and rely on your dps to use their aggro skills, and it would barely be enough to not loose aggro, and occasionally you had to throw in another aggro combo or 2 mid fight if it wasn't enough. This actually made PLD genuinely unviable as MT after ARR as he'd just lose too much dps from this.
Allagan rot at release was a pain not because of the mechanic itself but because of lag. There was a huge problem with syncing different players together and so you'd run through someone to pass rot and either it wouldn't pass, or it'd pass to them and then try to pass right back to you wiping the raid. That's why the strat started, though by the time most people were using it most of the latency issues had been fixed.
Also warriors used to have 2 stances. A tanking stance (defiance) and a dps stance (deliverance). I actually miss those days *cry*
A lot of QoL improvement are from Stormblood era, its insane how people say its the worst expansion just because it only got a good storyline in comparison of Heavensward and Shadowbringers excellent storyline. Stormblood is the best expansion for FF XIV MMO side, there's so many content and QoL that make Shadowbringers feels lack.
Can you guys imagine a Classic ARR playable nowdays? Would be so cool to see how the game was back then and see the diferent builds with classes and skills....
As Yoshi P said to a classic 1.X or 2.X “Nightmare” they aren’t going to do that.
Its not exactly a great idea tbh, people play WoW classic because its content are removed or not relevant anymore. But FF XIV content are all still there and old content are still there in party finder
From someone whos been playing since 2.0 , i promise you everything the changed from then to now is for the better and you wouldn't enjoy it. Believe me
@@blushingralseiuwu2222 The gameplay is still not there though. The gameplay now vs then almost feels like two separate games. The old content, as mentioned in the video, is basically nowhere near the same even at minimum item level.
I wish they added needing to travel to the raid entrance back. maybe remove the requirement after your first clear. I loved seeing other raid groups and talking shit or discussing strats while everyone gathered. in my opinion mmos should have those forced player interactions and something was lost when it was removed.
8:13
I think people eventually did the math: The amount of dps support Selene brought did not outweigh the healing output of Eos. I think the strat was to use Selene in the opener for the haste buff when everyone's cooldowns were up, then swap to Eos.
you could do more dps while having eos heal a bit and you doing dps, which is why they removed selene, i wish instead they reworked her to just be as good but different (in a way maybe similar to astro nocturnal and diurnal)
Simply because I was one of the vanilla players forced to do this shit, it does now make me feel like I wasted all that time leveling up different jobs for those cross-class abilities. Granted the new system is waaaaayyyyyyyyy better. Just slightly salty is all lol
@derp derpin to each their own. I'd agree that it felt more rewarding having to had leveled up alternative jobs to get cross class abilities, but overall the simplicity change made the game more casual-friendly. My biggest gripe was the addition of the Job gauges. That combined with the changes to the skills, I went from a 90th percentile Paladin/Dark Knight to a mediocre 70th percentile.
@@grizzlyadams917 tbh cross class leveling being forced upon a player who just wanted to play a class they picked is a dogshit system imo and im kinda bugged people are trying to defend it in this comment section cause it was "harder and felt more earned" just cause its harder and felt more earned doesnt = good or fun
You wasted your time the moment you had to crawl through 300 hours of cutscenes 🤔
@@jonton9228 300 hours my fucking ass lmao, the cutscenes are not that long all together. More like 37 hours at best.
@@jonton9228 Psh, go ahead and boost if you're not concerned with the story lol. At least you can skip most of the cutscenes XD. The only questionable change I am still having difficulty coming to terms related to cutscenes with is the fact that they're now forcing players to sit through the MSQ roulette cutscenes because all the sprouts bitch n' moaned enough that they couldn't watch the cutscenes AND participate in the fights.