Some points about bronze age rapiers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2013
- TH-cam seems to be having trouble playing my videos at the right resolution. To see this in 1080 high definition, you may have to set the resolution manually.
All weapons shown are from the collection of Mick Skelly. All bronze casting was done by Neil Burridge.
I'm still being dogged by technical hitches, but seem gradually to be overcoming them. The sound on this video is very different from the sound I hear when I'm editing. Still, I hope it's clear enough.
I see that TH-cam is actually suggesting the key word 'ninja' for this video. I shall resist.
www.LloydianAspects.co.uk
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My goodness, those bronze weapons you have look absolutely gorgeous.
"he had a dirk-like wit" gently does it, changing the English language like that could lead to a long dark teatime of the soul
Form follows function. Your interpretation matches what I thought the moment I saw this thing. Some people miss the forest for the trees. Long thin blade obviously for stabbing. Lack of hand protection suggests use with shield or buckler. Overall fragility also suggests use in conjunction with a heavier weapon.
it's obviously not designed for hacking or slashing, so if everyone was using similar weapons at the time, there would be no need for a hand guard, if anything it would get in the way, it would make a fine primary weapon in a random scrap and as you said, it would work great as a secondary in a larger battle
I imagine the most widely used weapons in bronze age Europe were as lindy said either clubs that haven't survived or small one handed battle axes. Most of the bones we have from the battles of the time show caved in skulls and crushed bones as by far the most common cause of death, with nicks and cuts on areas such as the arms.
In the book the Odyssey, the author often says " the cruel bronze " when talking about spears.
i am so glad ive found a channel that covers bronze age weapons in any detail
I do love your use of technical terms such as "stabby"
Your videos are amazing. I've just finished watching the entire weapons and armour playlist and I felt the need to say that. Keep it up!
As far as I can remember this is the first HD video of you talking about some points. The HD-Lloyd is a whole new experience! Well made!
Wait, archaeologists named those things "rapiers"? That's... odd, since my instinct would just to call them daggers or short swords. If someone wants to call a bronze sword a rapier, I think of the Aegean Type A or Type Ci sword that could get up over a meter long!
But those Aegean weapons weren't thin stabbity swords.
The short dirks are clearly different in function and use style from the long rapiers. The problem is that there is a continuum of blade lengths.
Good point about using the buckler to shield the sword hand. This come sup frequently in the I33 manuscript of the late 13th/early 14th century AD. It serves a duel purpose. Firstly as you said it protects the sword hand and secondly hides any motions one may be starting from the enemy.
Would love to see both these videos! They're so great, I love everytime a new one comes out!
I love the style of humor :) Would like to see more commentaries on movies - I find them hilarious.
Oh, and kudos to you for your videos!
Depends on how you use it. A small wooden shield is very effective for light infantry moving through rough terrain and fighting in quick, mobile engagements.
Love these videos. They're always very educational.
Request: Could you do a video touching on how different swords are classified and used (ie: rapiers v.s short swords vs. two handed swords vs. katanas, etc)? Sort of a "Swords 101: Sword types and their employment in battle". It might make a good series, even. You could cover different types of shields, clubs/maces/flails, etc.
I like your videos, you are informative with a sense of humor.
I'm quite excited for this. I hope one day you can do a video on the plethora of types of polearms that were used.
An interesting video, as soon as I saw that blade I thought 'how the hell was something as tiny as that, no hand grip and such, used at all?' Excellent explanation, it makes immense sense using it with a small buckler. I can immediately think now of great ways to receive a strike on the buckler, and use the outstretched position of his blade to shank him :D
Those are beautiful, something about bronze that just looks so damn good!
Bronze is such a beautiful, warm metal. I look forward to these videos!
I expect to be acquiring one in the reasonably near future, so I'll wait to have something to show.
Loving the new setup, Lloyd.
I'm so happy you're doing weapons again.
Very fascinating stuff, and nicely done... thx!
Digging the HD, man. Looks great.
Thanks for this-when I read the title I thought "absurd, you can't have a bronze rapier!" Glad to have learned something new.
On a related note, it it possible that this weapon was intended more for everyday self-defense (or for murder) than for battle? I admit to not knowing anything about the societies where these weapons were used, so I'm very comfortable with the possibility I'm wrong.
Triple yes on this, please. The khopesh has always fascinated me.
In Scotland we also have a larger form of buckler known as a Targe, which was used in a very similar manner with a blade in the same hand. Also with a sword/mace/other in the main hand. :)
To JimmyNapalm. Lindy makes it pretty clear at the start that the term rapier has been given by archeologists and curators etc to distinguish it from the other different weapons of the era for modern purposes. Otherwise you'd get a gazillion different objects all around the world through history all called the same thing.
Most sword authors/commentators, curators and other associated sword people would say the true rapier starts about 1500ish, not any earlier.
I noticed in the middle of this video that is a window you are standing in front of. It looked like a cabinet. love the view as well back there.
Spears, yes, and clubs, and palstaves (a fore-runner of the socketed axe).
I think lindybeige covers the imperial system in another of his videos - the main point being that the basic measures of the imperial system are based on people - a foot is obvious; a yard is about one stride; a pound is about the weight of a convenient rock that fits nicely into the hand; a pint is about what a thirsty man drinks in one go, etc.
The exact values have been tweaked slightly so that different units of the same quantity have round conversion factors but they're still people-sized.
That's actually a point that I brought up in a paper at university, about thrusting rather than chopping with Minoan swords. They had some blades which got as long as 111cm (43.7in), with many of them reaching over 75cm (29.5in). But they also had a propensity towards large rectangular or figure-eight shields which covered the entire body, and so one would have to try and otherwise get around them.
lindy's made a few videos that combined seem to cover this question. in one he mentioned that the widening at the base was most likely to keep the sword from rattling, and the widening near the tip would put the place the blade is most likely to strike at in a better place for leverage. also, thicker near the end makes for a stronger hit, though going overboard will weaken the weapon and make it harder to use in general.
There are several impressive examples in the National Museum of Ireland, most notably the Lissan Rapier which has a much more recognisable blade shape and length for the term rapier. There are also examples that offer somewhat better (though still marginal in the grabd scheme of things) hand protection.
Fair enough. I was taking the swords from espada roperas to the beginnings of the small sword into account. Rapiers were used alongside side-swords too. The difference between the two is murky. Labeling swords in general gets convoluted anyway. For example look at cavalry rapiers from the Deluge and the 30 years war.
Apparently people were still writing treatises on rapiers into the mid to late 18th century.
Watching Lindybeige videos IS life, man.
I love all of these historical youtube vids!
I'm all for this! it's always great to see stuff on the more unusual, atypical, and occasionally outright bizarre things weaponsmiths, soldiers, and the occasional peasant with an attitude came up with to hit their fellow man over the head with repeatedly and with great force.
Bucklers were commonly used in Renaissance Europe. They were generally used as a backup weapon by archers and pikemen, or used by light infantry who attacked pike formations. Most bronze infantry consisted of spearmen with fairly large shields. The rapier & buckler would seem more like the backup weapons of an archer (or chariot archer) than a primary weapon.
The longer rapiers are type 4's and are now thought to be contemporary with the Yetholm type shields and the Yetholm spear. Neil made the type 4's on request and has also made a copy of the Yetholm spearhead.
Amazing works of skill!
Well, I never thought of it that way. Nicely put.
If you mean the one with the curly bits, that's the Witham Sword (not to be confused with another much later Witham sword).
So hyped for more HD videos.
Maybe instead of a rapier, it should be called a sting. It's about the right size for a hobbit.
also, wakizashi are made primarily as secondary slicing blades, though their reduced length made it easier to stab with them as well.
Dear Lindybeige, could you make a video about maces (both ancient and medieval ones)? Expecially the shape and material of the "heads". Thanks.
We know from historic periods that bucklers were used, and in conjunction with light thrusting swords too.
Never heard about chain as a tool of measurement, but when it comes to inch, foot and yard, they are easier to divide by 12 and all factors 12 can be divided into. And if people were to count in dozenal/duodecimal, then it wouldn't look like 12, 24, 36, 48, 60, 72 etc (although that's how you measure things in computer graphics and the like.) There would be a simpler system, as described in that video I mentioned, and people would also have to relearn to count, which feels very inconvenient.
Yes! The videos look great Lindy!
Have you ever heard of the Flemish dirk? I was speaking to some reinactors and one of them was dressed as a lower class 14th century Flemish militiaman and was equipped with a Goedendag (as he likely should be from my understanding) and had a crude 0.6 meter (2.5 foot) flat iron bar with a fine point at the end at his waist that he called a "Flemish Dirk". Now as I had understood it until then (but my understanding is pretty much limited to the July 1302 battle of Courtrai) the Goedendag was the primary armament of the common militiaman and he wasn't issued much else. However, this fellow said that the Goedendag was simply the primary designed to dismount men or even kill horses and the dirk was the way of dealing with men one on one in the field or on the chance the got passed the spear, and that it was likely adapted from some sort of agricultural implement used for poking holes in the ground and likely started rather small. From looking at it it looks almost like a flat iron club with a wrapped leather handle with sharp point (I presume) for dealing with mailled opponents. Does a crude medium length stappy instrument like this ring any bells?
Thank you for clarifying what a dirk is, I have been reading A Song of Ice and Fire, and I as having to assume
I love Lindybeige's weapon videos!
wow. such an improvement in quality. good stuff lindy :)
very sleek looking "rapier" I like it.
1080i, actually, which might account for the strobing on fast-moving objects, because TH-cam prefers 1080p..
Interestingly enough, there is a Qin Dynasty weapon that is very similar but very long at 94-cm. The grip and the blade were, however, made with one piece of bronze and it does have a tiny guard.
Could you make a video about that scythe-sword thing, the top one of the weapon collection? I'm quite curious as to how one such as that would have been used.
Thanks in advance!
What's the geographic range on these weapon types? the video mentions that similar pieces are found in bronze-age britian, but do we have similar styles in places like the near east?
This probably isn't your forte, but I've never seen anyone actually test cut with a brass or bronze khopesh before. It would be very fascinating to see how that looks in action.
Did they use that small bucklers back in the bronze age?
Stabing might be better for the weaker bronze so it wount bend so quickly by impact, but how is the grip of the handle? Its looking like you can slip of it and cut your own hand if stabing to hard.
I was wondering what the stiletto looks like compared to both the dirk and the bronze rapier.
Regarding the buckler you were demonstrating with the rapier is it just me of does that look like it could pose as headgear?
Do you know if there was any advantage to swords being riveted to the end of the handle, rather than attached with a tang? Was it cheaper or easier to produce? Because it seems like a tang would be more versatile, so the rivets must provide some advantage.
Thank you for sharing ,, quite interesting.
The point is that when you are using a measuring unit for most practical purposes, you're not converting between different scales very often. What is important is that the unit is a convenient subdivision of whatever you're working on.
Awesome, u learn smth new every day :P Pls do a video on those egyptian sword/axe stuff u showed at the end and how exactly were they used :)
We have a sexagesimal hour which is divided into sixty minutes and works quite well. The fact that there are are a hundred centimeters in a meter doesn't preclude its use as the most common way of dividing the meter, either.
Hey Man Love the video, since the rapier is a amazing thrusting weapon (probably the best 1 handed one there is) just wondering What would be the BEST overall 1 handed cutting weapon? (maybe an axe as it can also do SOME damage to a heavy armored knight?)
Keep up the interesting videos!
Well if there was a best weapon, all others would be useless. It depends on the situation. Fighting a knight in plate armor would be a death sentence if you have no armor on you. That's why they were so expensive. But you would want to have a heavy hammer or a spear or a long sword with a thin tip. A dagger could also be used.
I'd say your best chance against a armored knight would be to miraculously poke him with a really thin and sharp point (a long nail on a stick could work) and poke into his armpit where there is only mail armor and a gambeson. Because of the thin sharp long nail, the nail would go through the rings on the mail and rip through the gambeson. If, again, you manage to have tremendous luck, you could stab him in the arm pit. At this point you leave whatever you have on yourself and run like hell in any direction hoping he wont catch you (as knights were a lot more agile then people believe but still not as quick as with no armor at all). If he is alone, he will probably bleed to death.
Congratulations! You got an armor that is worth like a small village.
Now, I can look into his amazing blue eyes in HD...
Difficult to put start and end dates on. I was considering 'side-sword' as a separate weapon.
My first thought on seeing the weapon: "Look, a D&D short sword". Informative as usual, BTW.
Please, please, please do a video about the Khopesh. I watched the video on the Kopis and was wondering if it functions any differently.
I didn't know these existed till now they seem quite interesting. are they sharpened like other bronze swords of the period with the pounding method?
I'd argue the rapier was used for around 250 years, roughly 1500 to around 1750, with the Longsword being it's Predecessor and the Saber taking over for Officers, Artillery and Cavalry
Probably best not to mention that detective. It upsets a lot of people who wish Adams had continued writing Hitchhiker's Guide instead.
Late rapiers were used a bit longer than 100 years. It was more than twice that. From about the very end of the 15th century/beginning of the 16th to the early 18th century.
Good video, though. Neil Burridge makes a fine sword. Did you get those custom made? He doesn't seem to have a rapier on his site.
Would also love for a vid on Estocs. They were the big bad cousins of Rapiers. greetings from portugal
Yes I'd heard about that. They had to train from young age to be able to draw the bow. Apparently training from a young age prevented bones from fusing as they normally would. A modern archer who used a warbow extensively has huge problems with his shoulders as his bones have fully fused. I answered purely from typical modern day target archery as that is where my archery knowledge lies. Those archers from the past were far tougher than we modern archers.
if any ones ever seen the Australian deck advert. think of that when be says dirk :) childish I know but it made me chuckle
Just a couple of days I ago I saw some of these the British Museum and wondered about the term "rapier".
Something rather odd about the second sword from the bottom: it looks quite interesting being composed of a single piece of metal, but I see no cross guard at the hilt to prevent the user's hand from sliding up into the blade and the handle seems very flat and rather unwieldy. Any idea how this sort of sword was meant to function or if it was a piece of a larger weapon?
How do you find the difference between a dirk/rapier and a spearhead? Is there one or is it just a matter of length of the handle?
When you display this buckler it seems awfully small, could you perhaps do a video about shield sizes and their different uses? Thank you
you should talk about the Sickle sword next--that one is always the most fascinating of the group of swords.
OH you reminded me of something that was bothering me when you started talking about scotland
awhile ago i looked into whether or not the irish wore kilts to my discovery apparently modern kilts arent really kilts as tradition kilts were giant blankets and the irish never wore them they wore Lein-croich
why is it that people say irish wear kilts? why is it i cant find any actual suits of Lein-croich and only drawings online
and would modern kilts be considered skirts?
(part one)
the bendiness of a sword can be quite effective. it makes the sword a spring and allows more pressure on the shield which means you could potentially manoeuvre the shield how ever slight ( im Talking about later sword and shield techniques btw)
I would love to see a video about that topic.
I really hope the (hopefully inevitable) video on newer rapiers won't just be a minute long.
heavy plated armor (think knights) didn't exist until relatively recently (compared to the sword anyway) so up until that point you could either brute force your way through the armor with an axe or a maul, or you could go for the quick stabby route with a short sword.
Does anyone know where I can buy a modern reproduction of one of these bronze age rapiers. I really like the look of them and I already have the buckler to go with.
Bit beside the point but all the rapiers look like little hobbit size swords!
Of course! Proof of Hobbits!
Big knoife
@@jl9211 i wouldn't say much, especially if he was a warrior using a bronze sword. Also, smaller doesn't mean hobbit! Those handles are fit for a child's hand imo
@@stefanjasovic2311 they might have gripped it differently
Are those swords longer than the "typical" bronze sword? I was told that bronze rapiers were favored because of their reach advantage, but they had no edge. I doubt that now. Also, can you tell us anything about bronze blade cross sections? I'd think having a ridged or triangular cross section bronze sword would be beneficial, but none are known to exist (to my knowledge).
And no I don't know that's why I watch these video's because its nice to find out about these things.
Can you school us on the Khopesh blade you have in the end? I saw the kopis, video though it seemed to look more like a khukri.
very nice Video, and it come to a funny time too, xD had an Argument with a friend who was just familiar with the very late spanish one and did not believe me that the one you showed is a rapier too^^
I also dont like weapons without some type of crosguard too, but even without guard you can parry other blade quite effective, but their for you have to be more preciouse with your movements, expect if someone want to beat on your fingers yeah then you have a real Problem ;)
After tangs were developed, no one went back to rivets. The riveted handle was a rendering in bronze of the way tools were made in stone. An example of extreme conservatism.
Why are some swords (gladius and a few of the few of the weapons at end of this video) made narrow in the middle, wide at the base and near the tip?
Where can I find your video on the advantages of the British Imperial Units compared to metric? I would like to watch that again but could not find it...
What is the name of the sword with the mouse ears at 3:57. I fell like I've seen it many times in depictions of Celtic warriors.