I'm shocked and surprised! You Americans are so open and generous with your knowledge. Here, in Australia, race car setup is seen as a dark art and very little is talked about. The fact is that a car is just a mechanical machine, that needs to be set up correctly. Thank you guys!
I still find myself coming towards SAFEisFAST everytime I don't know something and want to know more about. It was a pleasure to race under this name back in 2015-2016 on the iRacing special events! Maybe some day I'm good enough to represent this name again with pride!! :D
3:17 "There'll be times when might have your damping front to rear out of phase and then the car is very pitchy. That's probably one of the biggest things for what will allow the driver to go quick. We might find damping setups that actually have actual what we'll call grip,m but the platform is more consistent. And if the car is not pitching, they'll tend to have have more confidence with the car and extract more speed from it." If the car isn't pitching, then wouldn't the tire's contact patch be more consistent as well? That's been my experience, and the dampers have HUGE influence on heave / pitch dynamically, as well as roll as most people focus solely on. It'd be interesting to see results where a pitchy setup is theoretically / modeled to be faster than one with a 'flatter ride' (perhaps due to curbing compliance or aero concerns?). I think the downside of allowing excess pitch apply to more than just driver confidence, but braking stability and tracking rippled surfaces as well. 4:18 - "We don't really tune the car much with dampers, unless we have to. We generally through our 7-post testing and simulations we set the dampers for what we feel is going to give us the best and most consistent grip for the setup we have, and we just leave it alone. And we tune with toes / cambers, things like that..." "Yes, you definitely you want to have the geometry where you want it so you get the most out of the tire. So you have the tire operating whether it's camber or slip angles and stuff like that, so that they're correct. Your spring rates should be correct.. And at that point you can start to dial in the shock absorbers. But with all the information out there, you should be able to start with a shock that's close." Music to my ears! I've found far bigger gains by focusing on optimizing damper behavior than just having many knobs, especially if the user doesn't really know what the knobs are doing. From track to track, sta-bars, tires pressures, aero settings, alignment, and corner balance / stagger seem like the key variables to work with. Wish I had a 7-post rig.. one day. Thanks for the great video!
Watch out for excess force in rebound or compression at high speeds (assuming you're driving over curbing). Launching up (excess compression) or jacking/packing down (excess rebound) will both decrease grip. Aero loading matters of course. Generally, don't use more low speed rebound than required if you can utilize low speed bump. Note the dyno graphs in this video show at 3:05. I'd read through this thread for more insights: www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8937. A sensitive driver, data acquisition (with shock potentiometers & sufficient CAN-BUS or similar sensor data), and someone to help interpret it will all help see whether it's the driver or setup that's limiting your performance.
I'm shocked and surprised! You Americans are so open and generous with your knowledge.
Here, in Australia, race car setup is seen as a dark art and very little is talked about.
The fact is that a car is just a mechanical machine, that needs to be set up correctly. Thank you guys!
Yeah, and tires are even worse
Only open with the basics. The details are closely guarded secrets. Friends, spouses and probably lives have been lost over race car set-ups.
this is great! the dampers are quite interesting devices, i want to learn more please!
Part Two is coming soon!
I still find myself coming towards SAFEisFAST everytime I don't know something and want to know more about.
It was a pleasure to race under this name back in 2015-2016 on the iRacing special events! Maybe some day I'm good enough to represent this name again with pride!! :D
Any future engineering videos concerning those mathematical models?
3:17 "There'll be times when might have your damping front to rear out of phase and then the car is very pitchy. That's probably one of the biggest things for what will allow the driver to go quick. We might find damping setups that actually have actual what we'll call grip,m but the platform is more consistent. And if the car is not pitching, they'll tend to have have more confidence with the car and extract more speed from it."
If the car isn't pitching, then wouldn't the tire's contact patch be more consistent as well? That's been my experience, and the dampers have HUGE influence on heave / pitch dynamically, as well as roll as most people focus solely on. It'd be interesting to see results where a pitchy setup is theoretically / modeled to be faster than one with a 'flatter ride' (perhaps due to curbing compliance or aero concerns?). I think the downside of allowing excess pitch apply to more than just driver confidence, but braking stability and tracking rippled surfaces as well.
4:18 - "We don't really tune the car much with dampers, unless we have to. We generally through our 7-post testing and simulations we set the dampers for what we feel is going to give us the best and most consistent grip for the setup we have, and we just leave it alone. And we tune with toes / cambers, things like that..."
"Yes, you definitely you want to have the geometry where you want it so you get the most out of the tire. So you have the tire operating whether it's camber or slip angles and stuff like that, so that they're correct. Your spring rates should be correct.. And at that point you can start to dial in the shock absorbers. But with all the information out there, you should be able to start with a shock that's close."
Music to my ears! I've found far bigger gains by focusing on optimizing damper behavior than just having many knobs, especially if the user doesn't really know what the knobs are doing. From track to track, sta-bars, tires pressures, aero settings, alignment, and corner balance / stagger seem like the key variables to work with. Wish I had a 7-post rig.. one day.
Thanks for the great video!
Thank you guys so much! You are the BEST!
Thanks a lot 👍🏾
Hoping part 2 gives us real race engineers opinions on manipulating oversteer and understeer tweaking with the dampers.
Watch out for excess force in rebound or compression at high speeds (assuming you're driving over curbing). Launching up (excess compression) or jacking/packing down (excess rebound) will both decrease grip. Aero loading matters of course. Generally, don't use more low speed rebound than required if you can utilize low speed bump. Note the dyno graphs in this video show at 3:05. I'd read through this thread for more insights: www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8937. A sensitive driver, data acquisition (with shock potentiometers & sufficient CAN-BUS or similar sensor data), and someone to help interpret it will all help see whether it's the driver or setup that's limiting your performance.
Damn I love that sound....I used to do that when I road my bike when I was a kid...hah hah
The damper/spring design with the spring in-line with the shock body ( see 0:23 in) is the worst setup you can give your car.
done.