BMW Gen 3 Valvetronic Testing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Today I sort through information to try and come to a diagnoses on the 2DD6 Code setting in the DME. Some things confuse me but I work through it and come to a logical conclusion but am I right? Hopefully someone will tell me lol...
#diagnostics #autorepair #picoscope #scantool
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This is what makes diagnosing a BMW so difficult sometimes. It takes longer to find the information you need than it does to actually diagnose what's wrong. I've been through this many times. It can be very frustrating. It sometimes feels like every time you find one bit of information it sends you down another rabbit hole of more research. I went to a BMW class that literally admitted that BMW information is pretty bad. The instructor also mentioned to use OBD2 codes when possible because BMW tend to spit out codes that mean nothing.
Unfortunately working on BMWs w/o ISTA = PITA.
Good testing and displaying the result that you currently had, definitely proves out the code you had based off its description. Was good to see it first had on the scope. The valvetronic system can fail in many forms let's call it and it will throw many different code "descriptions" and not always as direct as this one. I've certainly had my battles and struggles with valvetronics systems of different generations. This gen3 can be "faulted" in the way that it still starts runs and drives like yours, other times they will crank run and stall, other times will crank no start, other times not even crank, and I've even had a "sorta crank" one before! it's crazy how they can fail and throw you for a loop and sometimes you can get them going without replacing them. I did a video of a 3rd gen valvetronic with scope captures a while back, if you feel up to it check it out, has some detailed scope info on the sensors and some captures on there too. th-cam.com/video/pfXNT6fFwd8/w-d-xo.html
p.s that question mark icon in the autel next to the trouble code will give you that same code description from service information. Thanks for sharing as always.
The resistor on the ground with an arrow is showing its voltage divider circuit and the DME is measuring the voltage drop so it can calculate the resistance of the sensor. BMW love a voltage divider circuit it reduces wiring and complexity. In some circuits it makes it very easy to diag.
I think what you are seeing is a transistor in the ground circuit to allow the controller to open the ground to check the circuit for voltage. I have seen this before on other euro makes.
I appreciate the amount of knowledge that you share with this video! I learned a lot about the sensor waveform and what we should expect to see when hooking up to certain sensors. Between that and finding and understanding what you read in service info it can be a daunting at times and discourage the use of a scope.
Maic Salazar has a series of videos on bmw valvetronic diagnostics.thank you.
Thanks Jake! We are always at the mercy of finding good information.
Keith explains it really well in one of his video how test these system.
@@autodiagyt New level auto.
If i remember right he's testing on a 2011 BMW.
Done those,very expensive,
Jake everything you do is interesting and educational!!!
Yeah I'm binge watching your videos and they're amazing❤
Thanks for sharing your information and experiences with us, it's really awesome of you!
Thanks for teaching us !! This tutorial has an enormous amount of value !! I learned lots !
The rattling noise is a worn valvetronic worm gear and shaft getting stuck on it's way up everytime it does a movement travel check (mostly when unlocking or locking doors). Common problem on N55 where most of the times the oil sprinkler that lubricates the gear and shaft gets clogged up with sludge since is so tiny. Solution here is to replace valvetronic motor along with eccentric shaft. I had a customer who continued using it like this for months until it burnt the valvetronic driver on the DME and ended up in a crank-no start.
The tough part is locating information on how the system works.
Maybe it's available to BMW techs through BMW training.
And of course, BMW is real proud of that part. They show it in the price for the new one!
Thank you for this video.
Hi, a frend of mine repairs these ecu s and has mapped out the valvetronic system. Using a huntron tracker to check out the components etc. What i also know that the ratteling of the valvtronic motor is the noise of the beginning of failure. Because the valvtronic motor of this type (N55 and N20 engines) collect a lot of metal debris out of the engine oil and start to overload the ecu. The motor has very strong permanent magnets in it and with time this wil happen. Later ecu types hve a highet voltage output (100 volt extra over the older types) you are referring to the motor reverence position which internally via a resisor cirquit is directly connected with the valvetronic cpu . After the 450 cycle teach in period the position of the valvetronic cam is learened. Of course the cam movement has to be even. I made a screen shot of the engines position if all is well. It is a rather tricky and challenging system.
Nice scope captures and diag! Piercing probes definitely give more reliable readings than backprobes. People who frown on poking holes obviously don't do this for a living 😅
The diagram was a bit misleading with the random internal components haha
@@autodiagyt true. I don't like backprobes because they can compromise the weather seal at the connector which is much harder to seal up than a little pinhole 😅
A breakout box would be ideal but of course unless you’re at a dealer then they’re expensive to buy and there are too many variants to make it worth it. I prefer the bed of nails style probes vs the needle style that leave large pin holes
I've had to fully rebuild and re-time one of those heads. Complicated bloody things.
Sorry to tell you this, BMW Techline Yes BMW Techline uses GOOGLE to find some tips to fix some odds issues. Don't forget that BMW sells their vehicles worldwide with the same drivetrain. So the tips can come from everywhere! Just for the Valvetronic, a training booklet hangs around on the net! Very good Video! Thanks!
The resistor shown in the ECM block most likely is current measuring device. The transistor - is a power switch.
Justin was the guy i was gonna say talk to.
The wire label BLDC_U 2.5 RT stands for Battery Low-Current Data Signal Universal, 2.5 ohms, Resistive Termination
@@autodiagyt I can't type the url or even a version of the URL in youtube. So search google for "google ai bard" and go to the first link. Do your searches here to find data about what you are looking for. After each question, always ask bard, "are you sure". Just don't trust the answers, because it is very frequently wrong. For example it thinks the .5 RT is .5 ohms, when it means .5 guague and RT is for Red. You many times have to correct it when you see mistakes and hopefully it will remember. But it can definitely help give you pieces.
The question I asked bard was this to get the answer "In a BMW wiring diagram a wire that goes between the DME control unit and the Valvtronic servomotor that has a label
BLDC_U 2.5 RT
what does this mean"
why is it BLDC then and not BLCD? Also 2.5 is wire gauge in metric system. Those are just UVW terminals for a brushless DС motor (BLDC). And RT is color red in German
BLDC = Brushless DC motor. RT= red wiring color. S1-S5= Valvetronic sensor number. U_BLDCS (blue wire)= Sensor 5V supply
A bit frustrating, Jake! I know nothing about BMWs, but if the servo motor is a BLDC (brushless DC motor, which is basically a 3-phase motor running in switched DC), then the sensors could be Hall type, to detect the positions of the magnets, and their outputs should be full swing on/off, to detect the exact position of the rotor and decide which of the 3 coils to energize (using those 3 thick wires), to go forward or backward. With those squashed outputs, the sensors are probably faulty, and hinder correct rotor position detection.
@@autodiagyt Yep. But being such an expensive part to replace, it's a risky call. Wise move to step out of it.
PLC are amazing what you can do with them. I graduated from PMI for mechatronics and went to work for a plastics plant. The guy in charge was an idiot. I watched him waste 300k in a year an half from just not knwoing what he is doing. Anyway I got fired and I was not a mechanic before but ended up opening my own auto repair shop 5 years ago and have beeng oing strong since.
Agreed, not consistent service data with them. Interesting career path, PLCs to automobiles. I was the opposite, learned analog, digital and controls from automotive and then got tired of wrenching and went to PLCs and ultimately in to electrical substations and power plants. Doing the HV equipment and generation, protections and controls. If you understand the fundamentals, it's all the same shit!
@@autodiagyt Ahhh, ok that makes sense with robotics. But pretty awesome they had advanced stuff like that in high school for you.
@@autodiagyt I hear that!! In science and tech classes I did really well, everything else.. hated it and barely passed or a few teaches just passed me. Why I didn't go to college, why did I have to take all the extra crap if I just wanted to learn tech shit? So I learned it on my own.
Let me give you a tip. Not necessarily for this issue but generally. Measure your inputs at the ecu. Measure your outputs at the load. Just because the sensor is ok doesn't mean the ecu is seeing the signal. Thats why the manufacturer supplies break out boxes to the dealerships.
It’s not necessarily to test at both ends if you understand the circuit. In most cases a Hall effect sensor is going to pull down so the ecm needs to monitor the circuit. How does it do that? Well it sends out a low current 5v that the sensor can pull down. So a simple unplug at the sensor shows 5v from the ecm. This tells you the circuit is complete the ecm. Now on the bad sensor that wasn’t showing a square wave if I unplugged it and still had that weird looking lower voltage then that means something in the harness or ecm is pulling it down and then further testing is needed.
@@autodiagyt I am well aware of how the system works being a BMW master tech, diag tech for the last 40 years.
Representing my country at the international service technician’s competition in Munich.
I was referring to testing generally.
In the case you are referring to the 5v is an output that is monitored at the dme using the voltage drop across the resistor as shown in the diagram.
Anywhere you see the resistor on the diagram you can reference it on the tester in status.
😂 Did he win the competition?
man i need me one of those test lights unfortunately they don’t seem to do them in the uk 🤪🤪. so very nice job done sir . nice approach follow your logic and understand how it should work 👍 sometimes it’s easy to over complicate bits that’s for sure and get wrapped up in a drawing . also i think it’s in our nature as auto sparks to want to know how and why and not just accept it for what it is 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@autodiagyt not that i have found yet . but i will keep digging sure i will find one . such a cool light plus modern systems module friendly . don’t want no errors over powering ecu’s 😱😱😱 no just poking around with your power prob any more 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We do have one not sure if they sell to general public though. I have one bought it through work (Vauxhall dealer) was about £50 which is way more than what they sell in the states for! They are nice testlight a bit I find the end is quite fragile
@@autodiagyt They had some in stock recently because I ordered one after watching you use it on the Red chevy truck and got it a few days later. Hopefully they get more soon.
Thank you bro!! Best wishes!
Have you ever heard of this? I went to diagnose a misfire on 2017 dodge 3.6 to noones surprise rockers took the cam out. The only code was the misfire. So the shop replaced the intake cam and the rockers. In exhaust side cam was still good so they just replaced the rockers. When they had the exhaust cam out to replace rockers they accidentally set the cam by a storng magnet and magnet was stuck to the reluctor wheel on the cam. After install it set a p0344. When scoping the exhaust cam one of the signal box was completely. Also once and a while the car had a long crank. When the
@@autodiagyt i freaking knew it. I'm kinda new to the auto and diagnostic area. I've been doing it for about 6 years but in reality its only really been about 3 because im very sick and constantly sick and in hospitals. This one is going in my top 5 best finds because just by understanding and having a foundation of electronic components i was able to confendtly state the issue, eventhough I've never heard or seen it before. I do diagnostic for that shop and I told the owner I bet any money he magnetized it because the 5 volts gets pulled down when it passes the little magnetic strips and thats exactly whats happening. My best find was a shorted 5 volt wire. It took 2 days to find because it only happened for a split second and I couldn't drive the van with the main sensors unplugged to rule out a faulty sensor. I had to cut the 5 volt and supply a out side source to different legs of the harness to pinpoint the locations. It end up having a pinhole in the wire and it would rub on the heatsheild. I love this stuff. I love being challenged but my theory to the test and proving it or learning why it wouldn't of worked. I've fixed alot of electronic components and a few years ago I couldn't read a multimeter
Having connector wire seals point upward where they can pool water is a basic on-engine wiring mistake. All wire seals should point in a direction, out or down, so that they shed water. You can seal the wires on the top with Grote Ultra-Seal, then wrap with tape to keep the water out from corroding pins, but this would take time. If it was my car I would do it, if it is a customer car I would recommend it as part of the repair.
I think, really not knowing how the system is supposed to operate, if we are trying to determine absolute position, then I would expect the sensors (all hall effect) digital outputs to readout in Gray code for up to 5 bits, or 32 (2^5) unique combinations. Gray code will count in such a way that only one bit changes at a time between counts as you count up or count down. This is very handy in determining faults and also simplifying digital control state machine logic design. If the approach is course then fine control, you would see two state machines one with 3 bits (course) and one with 2 bits (fine), both counting individually with Gray code.
If you do road-speed water intrusion testing you will find that it doesn't matter if there is an engine cover. Water will get everywhere in the engine bay. You can prove this to your self in the winter time or rainy season. Take the car on a rainy trip with the engine covers on where the car is at highway speed for at least 20 minutes. Then pull over in a sheltered area and pull off the covers. You will see water pooling where ever it can. The only covers that seem to be effective in keeping water out are coil-on-plug low profile valve cover caps with a rubber seal. However, even they can let in water where the harness exits the cover, that is why you see rust most often in the rearward cylinders on a longitudinal V6 or V8. It is very hard to keep water out in the engine compartment, and by water I mean salt spray in the rust belt. Here again you can prove this to yourself by seeing how either connector pins or fuse terminals become corroded in fully "covered" smart power junction fuse boxes or fuse blocks. How does the corrosion get inside the fully enclosed plastic box?@@autodiagyt
Replace motor and eccentric shaft. Make sure you order the needle bearing when you reolacr the shaft.they dont come with it .and of course new cylinder head cover. Advice the customer to replacr this asap. Or damage to pcm driver can happen .
M - Masse (German word for ground)
I guess you were the smart kid in school that got into robotics. I had nine years of public school in Germany and was 29 years old when I went to the Gateway store and bought my first computer. Windows 98 I still struggle with electronics and rather use them for target practice then fix them. 😂
@@autodiagytI hear that. Not sure if you aware , but Paul aka Scanner Danner is looking for guys like you that would share their case studies with him for his premium channel. Might be a good way to get paid extra and boost your subscribers too. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us. I know the extra time and comments might not be worth the effort at times.
AIR is good service , but its not the complete information and system. Actually AIR is ported internet browsing variat of ISTA. 11:28 In this case ISTA it would give you what every pin is meaning when you click on the component. Certainly knowing the pins would give you more confidence when you were diagnosing 🥃
You can't use an oscilloscope to look at these waveforms, you need a proper logic analyser. BTW, the waveforms are SPI protocol and there are two magnetic sensors in the eccentric shaft sensor itself (and therefore 2x SPI channels). I believe they're KMA200 ICs.
Where did you get that information? Service information clearly states they are Hall effect sensors.
@@autodiagyt They are magneto resistive (similar). The service guide also claims they're CAN but they aren't, they're SPI. You can even tell it's SPI from the pin designations with the common Clock line which comes from the DME and the two CS(Chip select) lines and finally the two DAT lines
@@Trade9900 still I’m not seeing where you are finding this information. Service information clearly states there is 5 Hall effect sensors. The single seen on the scope is not a data packet. I’ve seen known good captures of these and it’s a typical signal from a Hall effect. No where does it mention anything about data transmission, the symbol used in the operation and description is a PNP transistor. The wiring diagram label is BLDCS which are sensor inputs to the dme.
@@autodiagyt You're right, I just looked at your diagrams and it appears they've changed the design after the E9x series.
Grasias
if you were fluent in german those wire descriptions might make sense is my guess.
Diagram is just showing a 3 phase brushless DC motor.
VSC
Vehicle Stability Control
Cutting Power Sent to your Wheels
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ASTUTE Automotive Diagnostics & Programming
Brilliant video
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 23:20pm
You are so slow and you are so fast, you can never be wrong, you showed when you turned off the sensor how it lost connection with the ground, it is bmw and ww that use these diagrams, greetings from eu
this are conektion diagram not schematik to total difrend . iam surching schematik's vore long time ( iam coming vrom a elektrik repair man ( radio tv repair ) to cars ,1997 i started on cars ) only logtik thinking is helping you with cars
BMW=break my wallet! Too much unnecessary overly complicated systems that is so damn unreliable