Repairing a Seiko quartz watch dial. How to use a dial soldering machine.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024
- In this video I demonstrate three methods to repair broken watch dial feet. Dial stickers, pre-made dial feet and the use of a watch dial feet soldering machine. Let's compare the results and see if we can determine the best solution.
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Dial Feet Milling Tool: ebay.us/6xLGA5
Dial Stickers: ebay.us/Zeh66a
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Dial Soldering Machine on eBay: ebay.us/Vr120d
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Dial Stickers: ebay.us/Zeh66a
In this video I demonstrate three methods to repair broken watch dial feet. Dial stickers, pre-made dial feet and the use of a watch dial feet soldering machine. Let's compare the results and see if we can determine the best solution.
... we thought we were in for a new tool... however it ended up being no less that 3! gotta love watchmakers tools.
🙏 thanks
@Watch Repair Channel I bought a seiko snk807 about 7 months ago. It has the 7s26c movement and I had put it down one night and it was running. The next morning I wake up and it's stopped and it won't go no matter how hard I encourage it to. The balance spins freely but the second hand never moves while its spinning. I looked in the movement with a light and the balance spins but its not engaging the pallet fork. I took the ballance of to see if their was any tension and sure enough when a lightly pushed on it l could feel the tension while the escape wheel moved. What the heck is going on? I don't have much experience in watch making but I have a cheap tool kit so I could put new hands. or a dial on.
I hope you’re ok, it’s been a while and you didn’t upload any videos.
He seems active on patreon still, probably just doing his courses and that’s it.
I also have this machine, for electrical safety I use ceramic tweezers. It needs some practice to use well, but I generally avoid trying to solder dials of cheap Chinese watches. Old Swiss, Russian, Japanese watch dials will generally be more resistant to heat.
Also I sorta know the people who developed it, they run a watchmaking school in Hungary, I was trained by them.
Thank You for your comment! ;-)
Thank you Micky for creating this tutorial for the interested people 🙂 I hppe all is well with you 👍 Keep it up!
Cheers George
Thank You Mark for your excellent video. What you shared with us, it's absolutely correct and right. However - me as the developer of this machine - prefer to soldering the dial feet, but I agree with some comments, in some case the glue is more preferable ;-) Thank You for your work on your channel!
Looks like you used a variable power supply and home brewed the rest. Very good job over all
Electronic engineer here, that wiring internally looks well designed and manufactured, and the transformer and connectors look very decent. Pity you didn't capture that board with the green connector top left, looks like that's the control section where the magic happens. Safety would be ok is my guess with a fuse installed. I like repairing stuff as well and if I would ever pick up watch repair and attempt something like this, I'd probably prefer the milling and adhesive method. With the right adhesive, my guess is it would be mechanically more secure than soldering and I would really not want to risk heat damage on a dial. The big plus of soldering is that it can facilitate electrical current but there isn't any here.
You're getting better results with the Amtec paste because it contains lead, so it has a lower melting point than lead free which I guess was included. Don't think you can legally use lead solder though. And downward pressure is very beneficial when curing glue, I don't see you doing that in this repair. A glue joint like this would only need a little pressure.
I was curious about the epoxy method, too. Done form of clamping force must be necessary. He probably just didn't show how he did that.
Mark?
I agree that one must be cautious and practice. At the beginning of this excellent video, I had at first thought the labeling was your humorous addition,...showing its EXACT intended purpose -- but that is just what it is.. LOL I liked how you scarified the two surfaces to be glued in two axes. I watched the video, riveted to my laptop.
I jumped when I saw you touch the soldering iron tip....btw I am so not used to hearing the 'L' in the word solder...I can neither explain why I spoke as my kids would (I am so...), nor why we pronounce solder like 'sodder'...now that I've typed it out, I think I know why there is a difference.
I am watchmaker but still have to thank you to show me that drilling tool to cut the hole for the base of the premade dial feet. I got an old omega that I cannot take the chance to damage the dial by soldering. Life long learning in watchmaking ! Thanks again. I wouldn't thought about this 👍
Welcome back Marc I've bought my tools and completed your first course stripped my first old pocket watch
I’ve A Seiko 8f56 Diver I’ve had for Years that I cannot get repaired due to one of the Dial feet broken and 2 renowned repairers in our Seiko community had no joy sorting it out so this looks interesting as I would love the watch back on my wrist.
Great video as Always And interesting 👏👏👏⌚️
About 40 wars ago I remember using such a machine in the UK in my family clock (as opposed to watch) business. We used it on larger dials, but it still required a good deal of skill as you demonstrate. Personally I would emphasise the 'chemical' cleanliness of the end of the wire and the dial surface although flux does go a long way to help with this issue.
I do agree with you regarding risk v reward.
Especially with your little reaming tools to finish off the epoxy "squeeze"
Vernon.
Nice watch, I have 2 of them. Thanks for sharing the knowledge. I don't know how but your videos are extremely watchable. 😁
Looks like you might be able to mill a recess to then solder the foot on, so you can still mill the excess solder away while being flush the the back of the dial.
Exactly my idea. The joint is rather weak when there is only solder between the tip of the wire and the dial. When the wire is embedded in solder on all sides that improves its resistance against lateral shocks. BTW, epoxy is a much stronger compound than solder and the contact area is much larger.
I have an identical Seiko to this - model is SKA016P I believe - that suffered an identical face-rotating fault several years ago and needed repairing. Apart from that it's been a fantastic light titanium watch that just keeps going and going until retired by a SARB033.
I do a lot of micro soldering of electronics and the like. I would be interested to see if an extremely low melt solder paste, and the quick touch of a temperature controlled soldering iron, would accomplish the same thing with no heat damage. I'll have to give it a try!
For the guy who has a different screwdriver for every screw, locking pliers for tightening a nut? Now I feel a little better about some of the tools I use :)
I've heard about some ultra-low-temp model railroader's white metal solder at 70 degree celsius, might be an option for sensitive dials. I'm an epoxy user (JB weld), overnight cure allows for a little micro-adjustment as it starts to set up.
The melting point of the cream - what Mark is using on the video - is approx. 130 Celcsius, or you can try also the sn42bi58 cream which has a similairly low melting point ;-)
The epoxy was the safe & secure repair. Well done. By the way the finished watch looks terrific.
To my uneducated eye,the epoxy method appears more sound for after the fact repairs. Thanks for the comprehensive video.
Lovely vintage watch dial feet soldering machine! Good job.
My preference is the hand mill and epoxy. There's much less risk of damage and you never know what the heat will do to the dial. Especially more delicate dials. Diver dials are usually OK, but multi part dials with silver plating and lacquer on top, makes me a bit uncomfortable.
It's also much easier to line up the foot with the pre made dial feet and the hand mill. The problem with the soldering is you can't see what you're doing under the solder paste. It really doesn't need to move a lot and you have to do it again and risk further damage.
I have tried the hand mill + pre-made feet + soldering, but heat is still an issue.
Thanks for the video, it was great!
teacher, as always, your videos are great, very educational, how I would like you to restore my seiko 70s, it is a pain in the distance, thanks for your sharing your knowledge
Najbolji si. Svaka čast. Tvoji linkovi mi pomazu u radu. 25 god . sam časovničar i uvek nesto naučim od Vas.
Nemogu kupiti svu opremu-alate koju vi koristite pa ih pravim kopiram koliko mogu.
Jos jednom hvala za sve.
Sa poštovanjem Boban.
I have a pack of these dial feet and I never knew there was a tool for making a recess for them, I wrote of the dial feet as useless as they would never bond well, but perhaps I can repair dial feet with a bit more confidence now, thank you.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Looks like a simple 230v to 50v transformer with a variable voltage input through the pot and I’m guessing transistors. This runs through the voltage display and then to the input of the transformer. So it looks like at a max of 230v your only going to get 50v @ 10a output. Looks simple to build from off the shelf parts. Thank you for the look inside of the box.
Are you planning to make anymore videos. They fascinating and informative. Thank you
Inglés
Another fantastic video, I never get tired of watching them, even though some of them are not translated by TH-cam into Spanish ...... I love them and I learn a lot from you. Thank you very much and keep making videos
Don't touch the wire, Touch the solid bit the croc clip is connected too. Good job,
Great vids
You are correct. Any very valuable watch should not have a risky procedure that would not be recoverable and obvious to the beauty of the dial face. Use epoxy and premade feet. They look nicer imo and are equally as performing their function.
Those old Seiko kinetic's capacitor don't hold a charge well when they age. A lot of them have had a special capacitor replacing battery installed. Is that a modification/repair that you could demonstrate on video?
When you were checking to see if the casing was live with the multimeter, it looked like you were touching the probes to a number of parts that are electrically connected, most notably different screws going into the case. When doing that, you will never get a reading because there is no potential difference, or voltage, between two screws going into the same piece of metal. It's best if you look into this rather than me trying to be very concise right here off the top of my head. Fluke instruments are very fine so it would make sense to get good use out of it. It does occur to me that you may have just been having fun and understand this subject perfectly. ;)
Mark - Could you post a link or description of the Horotec tool you used to smooth the dial feet solder joint or the smooth the excess epoxy from the counter sunk dial foot type repair. Much appreciated. John S
This is the exact watch my grandad left me! What a coincidence! Great video!
Hi !
Quick question, do you know when the level 4 watchmaking course will be available ?
Thanks you for you time.
Perchè non pubblichi più? Sei il migliore 😢
Would misting some water onto the leather pad not help prevent the dial face itself getting too hot?
Great music. Sounds similar to Click Spring, or Clickspring. Very excellent milling machine. I must have one. Good channel.
Hi mark fantastic video can you please tell me were the milling machine was from and what type of epoxy risen do you use thanks ady
Very useful machine with good practicing
I like your works very much and I learned from you alot ...thank you for everything Mr Novak
Was that an extra flat washer or was it supposed to go at the base of the post, on the outside of the case?
By the way, internals look really neat and the case is grounded (wire affixed to the lid). Looks 100 times better than half the power tools in stores, no expense spared on wire gauge and connectors either, properly crimped. Profit margin is somewhere at or below 30%
Edit: washer is in place when testing the machine 😄
Both these methods look like great fun!
I've encountered many a dial that would react poorly to high temperatures. Stuff like sunburst patterns on dials typically have some sort of thin film making the sunburst effect, a film that will melt in contact with stuff like alcohol, so I can't imagine they deal with heat well. Even though this device seems to limit the spread of heat fairly well, I'd still be reluctant to bring it to any dial deemed sensitive.
Good day sir..can i request for you to review a watch..a naviforce 9122 model sir..coz the way you review a watch like the seiko 5 automatic it eased my mind either to buy it or not..thank u sir..
From an EE's perspective, the machine looks very well built! - there is no chance of harm to you. The maximum voltage you will see on the output will be a bit over 6V AC. The meter is showing the voltage coming into the transformer, not what comes out. It may work on 115V but will only have half the output voltage. If the adjustment and voltage meter will work on only 115V is questionable. If you need to dial this up to "170V" to get a good joint, then 115V will not be enough since you are over the 50% output voltage already.
I'm pretty sure you can solder the premade dial feet onto the watch dial with a regular soldering iron. Just make sure both surfaces are free of oxides, dirt, and oil before you apply the solder paste.
Very interesting video. I do not have enought dials without feet to justify such a machine, I only have two, one that I fixed with dial dots (and I do not like it either) and one that is sitting on a drawer waiting for a solution. I tried premade dial feet but without the tool to prepare the dial it's not easy (for me) to put them on the correct position. I may buy the tool you're showing, but in my dials the feet are much closer to the edge of the dial, so I guess I should file the foot round part to the correct size, is that possible?. The dials are from a Seiko 7009 and a Seiko 7005.
Thank you for all of your videos, we learn a lot from them.
Would be great so see a video on air pen kits. I’m a bit lost with what I’m looking at/for. Any suggestions under the £200 range ?
Thank you
I have two Utmost repeater pocket watches, same models, circa 1905. I want to use one as parts to fix the other! Any recommendations?
If i am replacing a dial on my watch to one of a different brand, what should i be looking for to make sure it fits ? Is there a size allowance the new one needs to be etc ?
Mostly unrelated but how do watchmakers deal with old varnish that’s flaking off. Leave it intact or clean it off so no varnish flakes foul the movement?
I like the video. A lazer welding machine will also work and be quite a bit stronger but it is a pricey piece of equipment.
Thanks Mark for the info. Has been a great help!
Perfect timing on the video! I am dealing with this repair right now. During your experiments, did you test the maximum length of heating time before the dial face was burned? I know every dial is different, but it would be nice to know approximately how much time I have to safely melt the solder. Thank you!
You are right, it's different at ech dial face. The melting point of the shown soldering cream is about 130 Celsius. You sholud touch the carbon rod approx 2-3 seconds. You will clerly see that, when the soldering cream not only melting, but flowing. That's the right heating time ;-)
The thickness of the dial plate probably needs to be considered, also.
hi Sir, bought a Moeris Swiss watch, the hand wounding had no end stop, winding it for 5minutes straight ! it help it only working no more than 7 hours, is the mainspring Broken? thanks
I didn’t know there was a tool for cutting a a small recess, I have been using a Dremel. I’ll have to get one
What 5 minute epoxy do you use ?
Congratulations on 200k Mark.
What’s the best way to remove the case screws that are stripped??? Thanks
it seems to be a spot welder repurposed as a solderer. quite a good idea, since the heat will be concentrated at the solder, which will have the highest resistance of the circuit. still, i'd prefer epoxy, which is very tough and durable on a properly prepared surface. certainly seems to be overkill for such a light mechanical load spread over those big feet. if you have any concerns over the epoxy, it's a good idea to find a slow epoxy and put up with waiting a day for it to set
hi again, I have a 1950 OMEGA, the dial have mistake print at the sub dial, I'm being locking to refinish it, do you know any place in usa???
coz I believe is expensive to send it to out side the usa... thanks, best regards
That thing has ElectroBoom’sname all over it. Or maybe BigClive. Pretty good stuff there though.
Very good as always Mark! I agree with your assessment to use the epoxy method. It does the same job with less risk. Cheers!
So use dial feet with bonding agent are prefer ?
I what a fligher B uhr watch dial on my GMT watch, is that possible?
I have one of those Seiko sport titanium watches with white dial. I like mine a lot
Both methods no good on enamelled pocket watch dials then? Or is the Horotec milling blade sharpe enough to remove enamel ? Thanks for the experiment Mark
Is it enameled on both sides of the dial, front and back?
Been a while was awaiting for ur next up coming video. Always get to learn more from ur videos. Thanks for sharing ur knowledge.....
Hey my friend, i got a breitling superocean heritage 2.
I dont know how but there was water inside. Can i send you the watch to repair?
Hi. Have you ever attempted to repair dial feet on a seiko bell matic?
Will a 29mm dial fit well in a 30mm (inner measurement) watch case?
good afternoon, please tell me the characteristics of the device, and if there is an opportunity you can take a picture of the circuit, I did not find anything on the Internet, you cannot buy from bergeon in Russia either, so I would like to assemble one myself.
@14m20s: Testing for shock hazard. Actually, measure AC and DC voltages from the suspect device to your local ground (cold water plumbing pipe, or known good ground connection). Because that's the most common electrocution path, from the device to your hand, down your leg, etc. As long as it's Low Voltage (say 30-50 volts, rules vary) or lower, then you'll be safe from shock. No need to measure from the suspect chassis to the suspect chassis. If the suspect chassis is well grounded (by internal inspection and continuity check), then the risk is low anyway. Still, worth checking. :-)
The machine in question is actually a very good unit, but truth be told i still find it easier to glue on the feet. I use 2 part epoxy metal set or a 2 part Marian epoxy. The epoxy has to have a hard finish when set, Areldite is not very good. Thanks for the knowledge you always give.
It is very difficult to achieve good results but preparation is the most important step
That was a bit spooky as I was sitting here polishing a chrono version of that Seiko and it pops up and I am like "waaahht" . I was thinking that does look a very well made machine and prob scope to use it for removing microdents on car bodywork and other applications where small holes needing to be soldered. Wondering if it could be used for silver solders which are the strongest of solder joints. Glues are astonishing these days, super glues highly useful and I repaired my Ben Sherman's wide thick cuff strap other day using some of that G-E glue and its fixed albeit I did put two fine holes and use some leatherworkers yarn to stop it coming apart again. I used the G-E on a Slava dial foot and held quite well as Slava dial feet seem to be held on with fresh air, empty promises and not much else hehe
I've considered one if these machines. The demos I have seen seem to be an almost instantaneous weld, like an arc.
I rarely have a watch in my hands that was built after 1960 and their dials can be incredibly fragile; even inadvertently touching them can ruin the finish.
However it looks like a welding, but not, it's soldering, becuse the melting point of the soldering cream is around 130 Celsius. You have just need enough experience, and you will never demaged any dial faces ;-)
where did you get that milling tool?
What is the watch you are wearing Mark?
Another great video, very helpful. Thanks Mark.
Greetings from 2022 😎
Are there ali dials? in which case, soldering this way may be harder? Nice video as usual! Cheers
Excellent video, you're a mad scientist!!
H. I have a 1970's Abercrombie and Fitch hand wind watch that needs repair. How can I contact you to discuss?
Superb as always!
Your channel should be considered theraputic.
excellent job! wish to see more videos like this! thank you!
I noticed that this unit was constructed by hand although it appreas to be done well.
The components used, I can assume came from China and that is cause for concern. This particular device has a very common and inexpensive rocker switch installed. Unfortunatley this switch suffers from a limited life cycle. Exactly how many times it can be switched on and off before the internal contacts begin arching and cause whatever is connected to the load-side to experience intermittent power fluctuations I cannot say exactly but it will eventually fail.
I suggest the unit be serviced by a small appliance repair shop and the rocker switch replaced with a quality device manufactured in the USA or the UK.
I hope this helps
Thanks.
From 🇲🇨 Indonesia 🙏
New subscriber brother always watching.
So fun to watch! Thanks for the video.
Boa tarde. Vivo vendo agora relógios automáticos, aqui no Brasil quase não existe onde comprar principalmente em meu estado. Onde posso comprar estas pequnas peças e fazer um relógio proprio para uso e ferramentas para a manutençaõ? Onde posso comprar o um relógio de qualidade e automático?
Always great job.
This is amazing! Thank you, I'm going to try and build a watch.
I think the two soldering methods are Okay except for the sticker attachment method.
One safety-related note. It may just be how you edited the video to show the features, but I hope you didn't power it up before you fixed the loose nut on the third-hand post. I would definitely not apply power to any gizmo that goes all loose-and-rattly during shipment! :)
Thanks for that. The glue method seems preferable.
Jeepers man, get a manicure. Love your work.
Mark where have you been brother.
Lovely Watch ⌚
A locking compound on that post nut might have given some peace of mind. The stud looks short, probably for safety.
Perhaps milling a recess and THEN soldering a pin......(although all my pin repairs have been glued) Heat really scares me...
You should watch the video that Chronoglide made about soldering dial feet