M2k learned all the frame data in the game by pausing and unpausing because if you do that frame perfectly, theres an 11 frame period the game doesnt let you pause again. Coupled with pause buffering he was able to measure the entirety of this games frame data.
M2k needs to make an in depth controller guide for smash games. Talk about the differences and what to watch out for. The different types of controllers and modifications.
Controller mods are becoming more irrelevant due to UCF. You only just need a capacitor (if your controller has SnapBack), notches are personal preference (I don’t use notches personally but many people do).
- Ken pioneer Marth on it's early stages - Mew2king improved on it and created that insane punish game - PPMD convert Marth into this neutral sword guy that cannot be touch - Zain push Marth to the very limit, showing to everyone that you can solo main him
I could listen to M2K talk about the intricacies of Melee to Salem for hours, with him reacting to the specific and weird things about the game. And I hope it becomes a reality, because I'm also learning so much as someone who just plays because I love the way it feels to move. After a few years of messing around, my hands only just figured out how to waveshine.
yea that's Melee lol. Game has endless depth compared to other smash games cuz of the options on both offense and defense and neutral and like literally everything
Nobbu SB No one would ever be good enough for melee , there is only being better at it. Don’t fear to join the community, you can always get better even if you are not good , and you will get good at it eventually with practice.
Yeah, melee is one of those games that gets better to spectate as you learn more about the game. There is so many micro interactions with teching, cc, and them many character specific interactions. Great game. There is a lot of fundamental play in ultimate I also appreciate. It is good to be a fan of smash in general, as then you can enjoy when people incorporate stuff from other games into the game they are currently playing.
Your explanation of port priority is not quite accurate. Which one is better is entirely dependent on the situation- one of the ports is actionable 1 frame earlier, while the other port gets out of hitstun 1 frame earlier. Basically what changes is how far away your opponent is from you when you are actionable. Sometimes that lets your opponent get out of a combo, yes, but take peach up throwing falco at 0% for example, and that ONLY combos into down smash if you have the port closer to 1 (doesn't matter that they have 1 frame less hitstun, you need to get the 1 frame earlier action so you can d smash before they hit the ground). Port priority effects are definitely not a "glitch," but a purposeful attempt at making ports fair in a game where something needs priority at some point.
I’m gonna save this video for later, when I can bundle up and grab a snack. This is the greatest series ever conceived on YT. Continuous improvement, chasing impossible perfection.
Have to say, I loved that Apex champion set between you two in brawl forever ago. I remember watching it live, and it was such hype set, down to the last hit if I remember. ZSS was so sick in brawl, same with meta knight's glide literally across the whole stage from the blast lines
I feel like it's impossible to get a good grasp of how melee really feels unless you just go in and grind your movement for a week or two. Learning character stuff or mechanics just doesn't add up if you ain't schmoovin
You can see Salem comes to realize how much more technical this game is than its later counterparts. His face shows how much more complex and intense this game is. Says a lot imo; especially considering his past statements.
TBH It'd be awesome to see Salem overcome his Melee hate and give the game a real try, I think he could be good with the more neutral focused characters
Any one have good advice for comboing a character or spacie after throwing them up onto a platform? They always get up as I up tilt and fall through to punish me back :(
You aren't reacting in time. Its a true punish. So watching the timing better. If not wave land on the platform and grab them. You should be able to do that if they get up and shield. If they get up and drop down thats a free counter.
Please make more vids like this (especially w Marf.) For instance if you redid each segment as it’s own video I think more ppl would watch and the information would be more digestible.
Hey mew2king! I have a question about controller grip that is “standard vs claw” grip and which is better for either melee or ultimate. It would be great if you make even a short video about it.
man I can only say that seeing this is inspiring a lot of information (some things I knew others not xd) but at the end and seeing m2k teaching in such a way makes me want to do some combat, without joking I must have like 5 or 6 gb with information from players who use marth or have used it but with you it is that I keep your way of warping :) I wish you the best bro I saw your video of reacting to your story and seeing you battle against people who yell at you with negative intentions I It saddens but at the same time I see that I am not the only one who has had these things happen to him and I am not so discouraged since it is normal. how did you say no ?, "my only crime is to win" xd that made me laugh but it's the truth, well greetings from venezuela
Poor guy.. M2K just information dumped years of MU experience and tech on him in the span of a half hour. Its gonna take forever for him to work most that stuff into his moment to moment gameplay. And I'll bet alot of that info was very surface level too lol. Stuff that *might* work sometimes, but only if certain variables go your way. So complicated..
@@Shodan130 Fair enough. But it's still hard to internalize an info dump like that and work it into your gameplay. That stuff can take months. Integrating new and highly situational tech can be so difficult to do because it forces you to unlearn prior habits that are hard baked into your muscle memory. Even if he could work this stuff into his play in a pinch, I'm sure most of the viewers watching this video that play melee will have to work really hard to do so themselves.
justfitz08 it was a joke about Salem who claimed to have years of research on melee and the scene dudes a proper clown, On the real I agree with you 100%. Been learning melee recently after playing more traditional fighting games competitively for about 8-9 years. And the amount I have to simplify for myself because it’s just such a different game
@@Shodan130 Imo smash is harder than almost all other traditional fighters. Learning a good block string and how your opponent will respond in a Mortal Kombat game is so much easier and more linear. If something works in a certain MK MU, it usually just works. Ofc there is certain stuff you can do differently in the corner, but smash has so many moving parts that it's just so daunting to learn to play "correctly." A single piece of tech in one specific MU and stage, can have a ton variations based on differing situations. Very very hard to learn. Smash is much like Starcraft in that way, and fairly unique in the fighting genre for these reasons. I honestly dont even know how nintendo gets away with calling this a casual party game. It's so obviously clear that it's anything but easy to learn.
@@justfitz08 yea for sure, it's alot harder than i thought it was going to be, tbh alot of it can be translated into more traditional FG situations easily enough but of course there is still going to be lots that are very very smash specific like DI and what not. tbh the hardest part of smash is having to use a controller since i've only ever played games on stick since like 2013 lol. the actual execution isn't as bad as i thought it was going to be as games such as MvC2 has much stricter execution in some aspects but again not being able to play on stick makes everything wayyy harder, at least for me personally
so is marths neutral majorly focused on movement into grabs? should you almost always jc grab as well. also does ucf take away the port advantages? seems weird to fix controller issues but keep advantages for port 1 (being priority grabs, ledge grabs, and spawning) and advantages for ports closest to port 4 (being 1 frame less hitstun)
Mangekyou Pichu so pretty much, in a match in which there are 2 controllers plugged in, the controller who’s port has the higher number (is closest to part 4) has less hit stun due to a glitch giving certain perks to different ports, for example the controller closest to port 1 will always win a grab trade
Did M2K say up and in is pretty much always survival DI in melee? Is this because most kill moves in melee send away at 45 degrees? Are the exceptions to this just moves that send upward (fox usmash) and directly away (fox dsmash), or does up and in DI work sufficiently to survive those moves?
Years of research vs years of research
:V
years of research vs years of experience and research
not even smash, what game is this?
@@mikebrouwer600 this is smash melee
Mike Brouwer lol this made me laugh so hard did ya think there were no games before smash 4 or ultimate.
M2K casually pausing frame perfectly
M2K's pauses are actually the biggest flex and it's even funnier because you know that he knows exactly what frame it is.
That was probably the only way he'd capture framed back in the day
If you've seen a move enough you know when it's going to come out
M2k learned all the frame data in the game by pausing and unpausing because if you do that frame perfectly, theres an 11 frame period the game doesnt let you pause again. Coupled with pause buffering he was able to measure the entirety of this games frame data.
@@ln8496 duh
@@ln8496 i didn't know that 11 frame buffer was the way he did that
Salem on 1 frame less of hitstun: "... Toxic."
Also Salem selecting character in Sm4sh: "BAYONETTA!"
This is awesome! I love it when you guys branch out into things that aren’t smash.
.......
who's gonna tell him
Michael Asnicar wait is it the joke that salem doesn’t consider melee to be smash
jeff yes
years of research
M2k needs to make an in depth controller guide for smash games. Talk about the differences and what to watch out for. The different types of controllers and modifications.
There's a video on TH-cam regarding controller notches and basically its really hard to get someone who is good enough to do them correctly.
Controller mods are becoming more irrelevant due to UCF. You only just need a capacitor (if your controller has SnapBack), notches are personal preference (I don’t use notches personally but many people do).
- Ken pioneer Marth on it's early stages
- Mew2king improved on it and created that insane punish game
- PPMD convert Marth into this neutral sword guy that cannot be touch
- Zain push Marth to the very limit, showing to everyone that you can solo main him
Solo main it? Marth isn't a he?
@@Wrench-007 marth is a god like me
M2003O no, it’s an anime sword girl
marth is the one who when asked replied, "I AM".
M2003O he is roy main
I could listen to M2K talk about the intricacies of Melee to Salem for hours, with him reacting to the specific and weird things about the game. And I hope it becomes a reality, because I'm also learning so much as someone who just plays because I love the way it feels to move. After a few years of messing around, my hands only just figured out how to waveshine.
Salem's reaction to the controller port differences lmao
I figured out wavedashing in a week lmao
Papa John *waveshine
This is truly the most valuable gaming content. I learned so much from this video even though I've been playing for years lol
exactly what i was thinking. i really appreciate this kind of high level content.
If you want a tip, just grab M2K's attention and hopefully he'll give you a few fair responses.
Nice.
Is this a pun for tipper an fair?
@@areks4397 and grab
Bairy good advice
@@danlubezillagoleez7867 he already said fair
MK2: "I am not a Robot"
Also MK2: "human flow chart"...
lol
MewKing2
This is way harder than everything I have learned in Ultimate and I'm loving it so much. Thanks M2K for breaking down this amazing character
yea that's Melee lol. Game has endless depth compared to other smash games cuz of the options on both offense and defense and neutral and like literally everything
Mew2King melee is pretty good for a game that isn’t smash
@@TheRealMew2king Bro you make me want to play Melee but Idk if I would be good enough
Nobbu SB No one would ever be good enough for melee , there is only being better at it. Don’t fear to join the community, you can always get better even if you are not good , and you will get good at it eventually with practice.
Nobbu SB just try it, don’t be afraid to suck in the beginning because everyone sucks in the beginning and no one expects you to be amazing then
M2K: "... you can do pivot F-smash but I'm not very good at it".
Also M2K: casually does 3 pivot F-smashes in a row...
It's the controller!
@@johnnycrash4892 It's the tangent lines!
This game is way more complicated than I thought.
I didn't know I was watching absolute legends
Yeah, melee is one of those games that gets better to spectate as you learn more about the game. There is so many micro interactions with teching, cc, and them many character specific interactions. Great game.
There is a lot of fundamental play in ultimate I also appreciate. It is good to be a fan of smash in general, as then you can enjoy when people incorporate stuff from other games into the game they are currently playing.
Melee is the best. Always will be
Before Premier: My body is ready
For these tutorials you should include an input display! It'd be really helpful to see precisely what you're doing
6:10
M2K: the humans (remembers that people dont know hes a robot)
I mean WE press Z faster anyways.
Gerald Calderon LOOOOL
Best part of the video
He's learning Jigglypuff and Marth... something something Leffen.
Salem beating leffen in melee would be the best timeline
Miles haf. Leffen winning and ultimate but losing to Salem in melee would be something else lol
Lmfaooooo
M2K says "humans tend to mess up" because he has ascended to being a melee god.
you should watch Salem play some actual matches and then give him tips/critique him as he plays. I think that would be really entertaining
Nobody:
Mew2King at 14:25 : "All my life I had to fight."
M2K is anime protagonist confirmed
alright
Your explanation of port priority is not quite accurate. Which one is better is entirely dependent on the situation- one of the ports is actionable 1 frame earlier, while the other port gets out of hitstun 1 frame earlier. Basically what changes is how far away your opponent is from you when you are actionable. Sometimes that lets your opponent get out of a combo, yes, but take peach up throwing falco at 0% for example, and that ONLY combos into down smash if you have the port closer to 1 (doesn't matter that they have 1 frame less hitstun, you need to get the 1 frame earlier action so you can d smash before they hit the ground). Port priority effects are definitely not a "glitch," but a purposeful attempt at making ports fair in a game where something needs priority at some point.
I’m gonna save this video for later, when I can bundle up and grab a snack. This is the greatest series ever conceived on YT. Continuous improvement, chasing impossible perfection.
Bro dont oversell it
Man, everybody is very funny with these years of research. It's almost like theyre all original and brand new.
before watching: "well time for the best guide ever made on melee marth."
after watching: "okay well now i know port 4 takes one frame less hitstun and nothing else"
Can't wait for the ice climbers episode
get the 220 bpm metronome ready
Btw m2k thanks for being a great Professor for my Smash Bro’s class man. :))
This is valuable knowledge, thanks M2K!
So nice to see Salem branching out from only playing Smash games
MetroYeti lmfaoooo
I love hearing you explain smash! Kept the content coming.
I kinda want to see Salem try Icies in Tournament. I think it would fit his style.
Nah I feel like he's a Puff deep down, besides a lot of regionals have banned wobbling.
do icies have good options apart from wobbling?
thank you god this is what i've been waiting for my entire live
Salem realizing how low IQ other Smash games are for over 29 minutes.
Dude I have the same DBZ shirt! Walmart Gang represent!
Make him learn peach. That'll show him.
He plays peach...
Cheers ! R/wooosh
@@zuki4607 Guys look! He has Reddit!
@@cheers9430 r/woosh
Cheers ! You’re just that one slow kid who doesn’t get the joke. Woooooooooosh
Hey guys it’s great to see m2k doin melee and Salem together in a positive way
6:13 M2k just referred to us as "the humans". M2k is a robot confirmed
man these char tutorials are a great way to explain the unexplainable depth of melee
Have to say, I loved that Apex champion set between you two in brawl forever ago. I remember watching it live, and it was such hype set, down to the last hit if I remember. ZSS was so sick in brawl, same with meta knight's glide literally across the whole stage from the blast lines
Bruh Salem's eyes 0:24 LOL
if salem is ready, do some fighting lmao, would love to see it. Salem is just a spicy personality in smash
It’s awesome to see Salem playing Melee.
I always love to learn about melee, it’s really enjoyable:)
Just picked Melee back up again, and I secondary/co-main Marth alongside my Luigi, and this was super helpful. Thanks
@@JohnSmith0010 huh?
I feel like it's impossible to get a good grasp of how melee really feels unless you just go in and grind your movement for a week or two. Learning character stuff or mechanics just doesn't add up if you ain't schmoovin
I have the shirt M2K is wearing.. I feel much cooler now
jason! please practice melee again. you've always been my favorite player
Years of Research vs Actual Years of Research
Salem is a god in his respective games, it's just a completely different games so he doesn't know lol.
@@cheers9430 You obviously don't get the joke.
Cheers ! He got bopped by a melee player that barely plays his game. Either Salem is trash or ultimate players are trash lol
You can see Salem comes to realize how much more technical this game is than its later counterparts. His face shows how much more complex and intense this game is. Says a lot imo; especially considering his past statements.
TBH It'd be awesome to see Salem overcome his Melee hate and give the game a real try, I think he could be good with the more neutral focused characters
ready for that swordsman spike
M2king es una máquina de procesamiento de frames de cuando y cuando no hacer el ataque demonios eres una bestia
And the redemption arc continues once again.
Wait, so according to Salem's years of research, he'll no longer be part of the smash community.
odd henry Nah he told M2k he actually wants to learn. I’m hype, I’m sure Salem (with practice) can get really good at melee.
@@Without-a-Shadow I was just being a clown. That happened like a year ago or more.
odd henry lol yea i gotcha
@@mathunit1 Yeah. I was just being a memer is all.
@@mathunit1 This was all an elaborate ruse to gain clout as the villain of Melee's new arc next season.
Read the manga, it's all there
It would be amazing to see how quickly can a Melee god could train a noob at Melee to play on their tier. (maybe from street fighter) or vice versa.
Any one have good advice for comboing a character or spacie after throwing them up onto a platform? They always get up as I up tilt and fall through to punish me back :(
You aren't reacting in time. Its a true punish. So watching the timing better. If not wave land on the platform and grab them. You should be able to do that if they get up and shield. If they get up and drop down thats a free counter.
I can’t wait that long for you to teach him my main
Love marth in melee
so when is salems netplay adventure happening?
Thumbnail is god tier
"Peach and Falcon grab behind them." So when they grab, it doesn't matter if your opponent is in front of you or behind you?
Really nice vid. Please cover Sheik next, would love to learn more about her as well.
Nooo just release it! I can't wait.. I'll patreon if I can get access
Please make more vids like this (especially w Marf.)
For instance if you redid each segment as it’s own video I think more ppl would watch and the information would be more digestible.
I love the thumbnail, ngl
M2K: I picked it up bc of him too
*only picked it up to beat Ken with his best character*
M2K pls make a Mew2King teaches Salem Melee Yoshi
3:13 because you've been practicing for your future career of Super Knuckles 64, right?
bro the port exploit is crazy that we found this out so much later
Anyone else see the most perfectly spaced wavedash ftilt in history at 8:12
When you said you were both inspired by Ken I thought you meant Ninkendo for a second
You forgot fair into wave dash back
We're long way from Smash 4 Bayo. lol
Hey mew2king! I have a question about controller grip that is “standard vs claw” grip and which is better for either melee or ultimate. It would be great if you make even a short video about it.
Stuff like controller grip is entirely preference, there are some pro’s and cons but generally use what your comfortable with
I personally decided when I started learning melee to do claw grip. I personally feel like tech skill is a bit easier to learn. It's not required tho
If Salem gets good with Melee Marth I will respect him again :)
Lazule And then he beats Leffen in tournament to complete the arc
My man's casually blamed the controller lmao
man I can only say that seeing this is inspiring a lot of information (some things I knew others not xd) but at the end and seeing m2k teaching in such a way makes me want to do some combat, without joking I must have like 5 or 6 gb with information from players who use marth or have used it but with you it is that I keep your way of warping :) I wish you the best bro I saw your video of reacting to your story and seeing you battle against people who yell at you with negative intentions I It saddens but at the same time I see that I am not the only one who has had these things happen to him and I am not so discouraged since it is normal. how did you say no ?, "my only crime is to win" xd that made me laugh but it's the truth, well greetings from venezuela
1:08 his reaction😂
Combo 13:23
6:10 sounds like something a non human would say.
damn jason smart. Its like im watching a real fighting game player
Poor guy.. M2K just information dumped years of MU experience and tech on him in the span of a half hour. Its gonna take forever for him to work most that stuff into his moment to moment gameplay.
And I'll bet alot of that info was very surface level too lol. Stuff that *might* work sometimes, but only if certain variables go your way. So complicated..
M2k is just adding to what Salem already knows, mans got years of research uno
@@Shodan130 Fair enough. But it's still hard to internalize an info dump like that and work it into your gameplay. That stuff can take months. Integrating new and highly situational tech can be so difficult to do because it forces you to unlearn prior habits that are hard baked into your muscle memory.
Even if he could work this stuff into his play in a pinch, I'm sure most of the viewers watching this video that play melee will have to work really hard to do so themselves.
justfitz08 it was a joke about Salem who claimed to have years of research on melee and the scene dudes a proper clown, On the real I agree with you 100%. Been learning melee recently after playing more traditional fighting games competitively for about 8-9 years. And the amount I have to simplify for myself because it’s just such a different game
@@Shodan130 Imo smash is harder than almost all other traditional fighters. Learning a good block string and how your opponent will respond in a Mortal Kombat game is so much easier and more linear. If something works in a certain MK MU, it usually just works. Ofc there is certain stuff you can do differently in the corner, but smash has so many moving parts that it's just so daunting to learn to play "correctly." A single piece of tech in one specific MU and stage, can have a ton variations based on differing situations. Very very hard to learn. Smash is much like Starcraft in that way, and fairly unique in the fighting genre for these reasons. I honestly dont even know how nintendo gets away with calling this a casual party game. It's so obviously clear that it's anything but easy to learn.
@@justfitz08 yea for sure, it's alot harder than i thought it was going to be, tbh alot of it can be translated into more traditional FG situations easily enough but of course there is still going to be lots that are very very smash specific like DI and what not. tbh the hardest part of smash is having to use a controller since i've only ever played games on stick since like 2013 lol. the actual execution isn't as bad as i thought it was going to be as games such as MvC2 has much stricter execution in some aspects but again not being able to play on stick makes everything wayyy harder, at least for me personally
so is marths neutral majorly focused on movement into grabs? should you almost always jc grab as well. also does ucf take away the port advantages? seems weird to fix controller issues but keep advantages for port 1 (being priority grabs, ledge grabs, and spawning) and advantages for ports closest to port 4 (being 1 frame less hitstun)
Great stuff
Wait can we get more explanation on port 4 hitstun?
The player with the port closest to 4 skips the first frame of hitstun (and the first frame of the animation) from every throw.
@@TruthTe11er Is that only for marth though
@@Lampaluile it applies to all characters.
Mangekyou Pichu so pretty much, in a match in which there are 2 controllers plugged in, the controller who’s port has the higher number (is closest to part 4) has less hit stun due to a glitch giving certain perks to different ports, for example the controller closest to port 1 will always win a grab trade
wtf, no red marth, no honor for the blood blade!
Teach falco!
i feel bad for learners Live who dont get the rewind button on m2k like us seaters do infront of a screen ..m2k-nowledge!
i thought melee wasnt smash salem
That thumbnail that intro 😍
Did M2K say up and in is pretty much always survival DI in melee? Is this because most kill moves in melee send away at 45 degrees? Are the exceptions to this just moves that send upward (fox usmash) and directly away (fox dsmash), or does up and in DI work sufficiently to survive those moves?
Kristopher Mason a mixture of that, how a lot of the time the top blastzone is the furthest out, and how knockback scaling works in melee
I want to see Salem play Samus in melee
This was great
you and zain need to work on covering that pikachu match up tho huh
i think it would be totally awesome if there was a video on how to play sheik like this. if there already isn't one lol
Can you touch up on Dr. Mario would love to see the breakdown of his move set.
keep up the good work!
Marth dabs back and forth as a dash dance
Leffen in shambles
Will you do more match analysis like Zain vs Sfat?
Mew2King I love you so much.
Pls bowser next
No